This Team is Moving

[more cowbell]

I don't need to sit here and preach my previous ties to the team, and current contacts within the organization as well. For those of you who have been on this board for a while know that pretty much all of my information is legit.

I live out West now, still keep in touch with a bunch of people, and I also have a connection who is good friends with the owner of the Bidwell's (Arizona Cardinals owner)

Long story short, my friend and Bill (Bidwell) speak often and he has reiterated repeatedly that it's a known fact among the other 31 owners that the Bills will no longer be the Bills once Ralph passes. The entire organization is being run by Russ Brandon and Co. and Ralph is at the point (sadly) where he has no idea what is going on.

Bidwell went on to state that once Wilson passes "it will be a sad day yada yada yada...." but in additon to that Mary (Ralph's Wife) has absolutely no interest in keeping the team and wants to "Wash her hands completely of it all"

He went on to state that there are investing groups lined up that want to bring NFL football to Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and even San Antonio and the Bills are the most attractive option due to the fact that they will most likely be able to outbid any local group attempting to keep the Bills in WNY. The reason the Bills are so attractive is because the new ownership can FIRE EVERY SINGLE PERSON (aside from Brandon probably) involved with the organization, and inherit a team has a ton of salary cap room, and a ton of players who are worthless and can be replaced effortlessly.

Ask yourself...why are the Bills consistently never spending cap money? And when they do its on their own players (Kelsay, Parrish, Evans, Williams, Fitzpatrick...and I guess you can say Pears) in recent memory.

Chris Kelsay and Lee Evans deals were ALL front loaded. If Kelsay was to be cut tomorrow hypothetically almost all of his contract has been paid up front (to make it look like the Bills are actually spending money every year)

Lee Evans earned about 90 percent of his contract before he was traded this past off season for a 4th round pick. Evans cap number this season and next season is just around 3 million. When he re-signed with the Bills his contract averaged 9 million per year, however almost all of that money was earned in the first 2-3 seasons.


So to recap...

1. We have a team, who has been crying wolf for the past decade they're in a small market, yet have been in the top 15 most profitable NFL franchises.

2. The Wilson family has no interest in running the team after Ralph's passing.

3. Investors from larger cities and more financial backing are interested, and if the Wilson family has no issue to sell to the highest bidder.

4. The front office does not use any significant cap room...especially cap room in the future (back loading contracts)

5. The "person" running the team currently is a "proven businessman" and has no ties to the NFL or the history of the league where he would make a case to keep the team here, when he can keep his job (after all he has marketed the hell out of the turd for the past 12 years) and earn MORE money for himself and the organization.


I know this has ALL been discussed before millions upon millions of times on this board. However, when an NFL owner is stating the same facts...that's a major cause for concern.

So go ahead...bash me...bash this thread...bash me for living in California and wanting the Bills to move there (some morons have said that to me before) which i think is beyond hysterical....

I hope just as much as any die hard Bills fan hopes...that the Bills stay in Buffalo. I was born and raised in WNY and the Bills are a part of my life...we need to let these a-holes in the front office know that we know what's going on and stop sitting here with our blinders on.

With all of the parity in the league...you would seriously have to TRY to be as bad as the Bills have been the past 12 years...which is becoming more and more obvious is the case.

Buffalo fans do not deserve this...we don't deserve this season...we don't deserve the past decade...and we sure as hell don't deserve what these "Slick Willies" in the front office are planning.

Lets do something about it...

[Dannyboy]

I'm in.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

What could we do?

[ZEUS]

Interesting thread, but it's really just here say and speculation. I think the Bills have tried to be a better team recently. They tried to hire Cowher and Shanahan. To me that says something. Now maybe they knew something about moving, but I doubt it. I think they just didn't want to be part of this organization after what happened to Polian, Butler, and Wade Phillips. I'll believe the team is moving when I see it. In the meantime, I'm not going to worry about it. There's just as much rumor that says Kelly and others are going to buy the team. And local hero Chucky Shummer says he'll keep football in Buffalo for the little people.

[Luisito23]

Read this post if you want - otherwise don't read it.

What's my 3rd. option?

[Night Train]

Doesn't anger me, because it's still pure speculation. Bidwell is Ralph lite and is one of the worst owners in sports history. I question his sanity.

With the supposed revenue sharing gains in the recent collective bargaining agreement, the threat of relocation grows smaller. Retraction(extinction) is more likely.

Jacksonville shouldn't have a team. Minny struggles. The Chargers may move back to LA and other wannabe cities can't afford teams. San Antonio would never happen, while Jerry Jones owns the Cowboys.

Aim dart...throw.

[Historian]

Who are the Sabres playing on Tux and Pucks night?

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

if it happens maybe Ill actually be able to pick a team that is a winner casue Ill no longer be obligated to cheering for them
I can then abandon the "whereever Bills" cause they abandoned me... so then I can freely choose to begin cheering for a winner
however, Im afraid that the moment I choose a new team, that team will then be cursed. so maybe Ill just be a free agent fan LOL

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Not much of this is groundbreaking news. The Wilsons are on record as wanting to sell this team to the highest bidder the moment Ralph dies. We know there are billionaires arranging to buy the team at the first opportunity, and we also know there are billionaires waiting to move a team to L.A. The team is financially stable largely because they haven't been begging for a new stadium like many other NFL teams; the Buffalo News reported this a couple of years ago.

The one thing that makes this suspicious is that they say Las Vegas is in contention here. Fat chance. Las Vegas has had several sports teams throughout its history and has never supported them. That city is an event town, and the NFL knows it. Besides, the NFL wants nothing to do with gambling, and in turn it wants nothing to do with Las Vegas. If an ownership group were to try to move the team there, it would almost certainly be vetoed by the owners (not that it'd matter much, see the L.A. Raiders).

The only remaining question is when the other shoe is going to drop. This does bring parallels to the Jacksonville Jaguars' recent "fire sale." Sure enough, this year Jags owner Wayne Weaver out of nowhere sold the team to Shahid Khan. Depending on if Ralph's still alive at the end of the current lease, he may just give the go-ahead to pull the trigger when that happens.

[YardRat]

The deal to stay is already in place.

[Night Train]

Who are the Sabres playing on Tux and Pucks night?

The winning team.

[JohnnyGold]

said this before, and ill keep saying it:

there is absolutely no way the bills will move.

toronto is the 5th largest city in the western hemisphere, and the bills have made serious inroads into that market.

just this season, we showed that we can sell out the ralph no problem.

and, this is with a team that has been absolutely garbage for TWELVE FREAKING YEARS.

let's just say, the bills move to LA.

instantly, youre looking at a jags team that can't sell out monday night football games, with a new owner...

you don't think he would look at buffalo and think

"hmmm... i could be the only team in New York, have a RABID fan base, have toronto in my backyard and play a game or 2 there every year... oh and if i field a winner, sell 80,000 tickets at whatever price i want, because the city of buffalo revolves around the bills."

if all ralph wilson cared about was money, the bills would have left long, long long ago.

but the fact of the matter is, as bad as we are, this is a HUGE market and there will always be a football team in western new york.

[Skooby]

The deal to stay is already in place.

This, the team is sold already to a local group that's waiting for Ralph to pass.

[RedEyE]

Wouldn't it make more sense for a team with a "questionable future" to back load contracts and cut/trade players before the large CAP hit?

I think the waiting on the new CBA had much to do with contracts being front loaded. I think front loading contracts are agent and player prefered and this is why we have been seeing a lot of this across the league. The player and agent is sure to get most of the agreed upon money upfront.

And the more I think about it, I think the Players Union would have a certified hissy-fit if the definitive organization moved from Buffalo but negated all player agreements.

I also think with the way everyone is "linked-in" to today's society, there would be serious leaks of a grandioso plan to remove the Bills after Wilson's last dying breath. This front office is relatively new with a few exceptions. We have a revolving door of coaches and players being fired and hired. You would think that on the way out these guys would be more than willing to spill the beans about this sure-fire sale delivering the Bills out of town. Not to mention if there are 3 specific, high-dollar, financing bidders with all of their greed and corruption, they would be chomping at the bit to destroy the credibility of the their competitors. Yet we hear nothing of the sort.

Why the recent push to reel in coaches like Shanahan and Cowher?

Why couldn't the same be said for Jacksonville? They are all of what you indicated and more as they can't even fill seats.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not labeling you a liar. You may very well have the connections that you claim to have. But, I think someone in the FO of Arizona is too far removed and too busy dealing with their own issues to know exactly what's going on in Buffalo.

In the end, money is money and the driving force to move or stay will begin and end with the new owner.

[jamze132]

Believe my post, or don't believe it. The Bills will be purchased by a Danish midget clan and moved to Albany.

[don137]

I don't think it is a surprise that their will be bidders outside of Buffalo. I am hoping the Jaguars or Chargers will be in LA by the time Ralph passes away.
I have heard that NFL does not want a pro team in Las Vegas due to it being a gambling hot bed.
San Antonio is interesting since Texas is huge but due to the Texans and Cowboys I would not be surprised if Jerry Jones will fight tooth and nail preventing them going there.
I think Ralph is not all there mentally and so no major spending decisions are being made other than maximizing profits. I truly feel the people making decisions do not care about the fans and the loyalty they have given for 50 years.

[stuckincincy]

What could we do?

I will click my ruby slippers and mutter "There's no place like home."

[User Manuel]

Unfortunately, in my heart of hearts, I believe everyrthing he wrote here. Don't want to believe it, but it seems real.

I hope I am wrong and him as well.

But.....hasn't this whole affair been so much like the movie Major League, just without charlie Sheen and the happy ending.

[TacklingDummy]

Hope the Lions have room on their bandwagon for another passenger. That's if I even watch another NFL that's not the Super Bowl.

[better days]

Doesn't anger me, because it's still pure speculation. Bidwell is Ralph lite and is one of the worst owners in sports history. I question his sanity.

With the supposed revenue sharing gains in the recent collective bargaining agreement, the threat of relocation grows smaller. Retraction(extinction) is more likely.

Jacksonville shouldn't have a team. Minny struggles. The Chargers may move back to LA and other wannabe cities can't afford teams. San Antonio would never happen, while Jerry Jones owns the Cowboys.

Aim dart...throw.

And the NFL will never go to Vegas because of the legal gambling there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I have 0 faith that More Cowbell knows anything more than any of us.

I don't discount he has contacts and I believe what his contacts are telling him for the most part, but I don't believe they have any better info other than the rumors and info that is already out there

I don't however think anyone knows for sure what will happen. The above is the safe sentiment and could most certainly happent but no one knows for sure.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Plus isn't Ralph Wilson's wife a humungus Bill's fan? That part of the story doesn't jive.

His daughters are on record not wanting anything to do with the team but not his wife.

I have always heard she loves the Bills but running the team would be too much for her.

What if Kelly's group is talking minority ownership with her and helping to run the team?

I am feeling more and more that is what Kelly's group is talking about.

[better days]

Why was Toronto not mentioned in the origional post? I would expect if the Bills did move, Toronto would be the place they move to. 5th largest City in North America. Ties to the Bills already.

San Antonio & Vegas will never be home to an NFL team.

[PromoTheRobot]

If your story is true, why sign ANY player? Why give Fitz or Lee Evans millions when you can fill that position with a waiver pickup? I smell poop.

PTR

[THATHURMANATOR]

Exactly.

Why even mention San Antonio or Vegas. No way they would be a destination.

LA or Toronto.

[OpIv37]

I don't need to sit here and preach my previous ties to the team, and current contacts within the organization as well. For those of you who have been on this board for a while know that pretty much all of my information is legit.

I live out West now, still keep in touch with a bunch of people, and I also have a connection who is good friends with the owner of the Bidwell's (Arizona Cardinals owner)

Long story short, my friend and Bill (Bidwell) speak often and he has reiterated repeatedly that it's a known fact among the other 31 owners that the Bills will no longer be the Bills once Ralph passes. The entire organization is being run by Russ Brandon and Co. and Ralph is at the point (sadly) where he has no idea what is going on.

Bidwell went on to state that once Wilson passes "it will be a sad day yada yada yada...." but in additon to that Mary (Ralph's Wife) has absolutely no interest in keeping the team and wants to "Wash her hands completely of it all"

He went on to state that there are investing groups lined up that want to bring NFL football to Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and even San Antonio and the Bills are the most attractive option due to the fact that they will most likely be able to outbid any local group attempting to keep the Bills in WNY. The reason the Bills are so attractive is because the new ownership can FIRE EVERY SINGLE PERSON (aside from Brandon probably) involved with the organization, and inherit a team has a ton of salary cap room, and a ton of players who are worthless and can be replaced effortlessly.

Ask yourself...why are the Bills consistently never spending cap money? And when they do its on their own players (Kelsay, Parrish, Evans, Williams, Fitzpatrick...and I guess you can say Pears) in recent memory.

Chris Kelsay and Lee Evans deals were ALL front loaded. If Kelsay was to be cut tomorrow hypothetically almost all of his contract has been paid up front (to make it look like the Bills are actually spending money every year)

Lee Evans earned about 90 percent of his contract before he was traded this past off season for a 4th round pick. Evans cap number this season and next season is just around 3 million. When he re-signed with the Bills his contract averaged 9 million per year, however almost all of that money was earned in the first 2-3 seasons.


So to recap...

1. We have a team, who has been crying wolf for the past decade they're in a small market, yet have been in the top 15 most profitable NFL franchises.

2. The Wilson family has no interest in running the team after Ralph's passing.

3. Investors from larger cities and more financial backing are interested, and if the Wilson family has no issue to sell to the highest bidder.

4. The front office does not use any significant cap room...especially cap room in the future (back loading contracts)

5. The "person" running the team currently is a "proven businessman" and has no ties to the NFL or the history of the league where he would make a case to keep the team here, when he can keep his job (after all he has marketed the hell out of the turd for the past 12 years) and earn MORE money for himself and the organization.


I know this has ALL been discussed before millions upon millions of times on this board. However, when an NFL owner is stating the same facts...that's a major cause for concern.

So go ahead...bash me...bash this thread...bash me for living in California and wanting the Bills to move there (some morons have said that to me before) which i think is beyond hysterical....

I hope just as much as any die hard Bills fan hopes...that the Bills stay in Buffalo. I was born and raised in WNY and the Bills are a part of my life...we need to let these a-holes in the front office know that we know what's going on and stop sitting here with our blinders on.

With all of the parity in the league...you would seriously have to TRY to be as bad as the Bills have been the past 12 years...which is becoming more and more obvious is the case.

Buffalo fans do not deserve this...we don't deserve this season...we don't deserve the past decade...and we sure as hell don't deserve what these "Slick Willies" in the front office are planning.

Lets do something about it...

With the exception of the Bidwell connection, nothing here is new. We know Ralph's family doesn't want to deal with the team. We know investors in LA and San Antonio want teams (although Vegas was news to me). And people on this board- myself included- have pointed out the lack of long-term contracts and expenses that this team has. There are very few contracts that go beyond the expiration of the stadium lease and Toronto deals next year, and the ones that do are inexpensive by NFL standards. This team has definitely limited its long-term contracts and liabilities.

The speculation that we are being Major League'd is not new.

The next year is going to be key, as the stadium lease and Toronto deal end after 2012. The length of the lease and provisions for breaking it will be a key indicator. If the team comes to a long-term deal with expensive provisions for breaking it like Jacksonville has, it's a sign that the old coot may actually be doing something to keep the team in Buffalo. If they can't agree on a long term deal and go short-term, or if the deal has a lot of potential outs for the team, then it's a sign that Ralph just wants to sell to the highest bidder so his family can cash out.

[Dr. Pepper]

well, that was a depressing read.

[OpIv37]

If your story is true, why sign ANY player? Why give Fitz or Lee Evans millions when you can fill that position with a waiver pickup? I smell poop.

PTR

Simple.

They have to maintain fan interest to keep the value of the team up.

Also, in the case of Fitz, there will be a cap minimum in the near future (either 2012 or 2013, can't remember right now), so they have to spend money somewhere whether they like it or not.

[better days]

Simple.

They have to maintain fan interest to keep the value of the team up.

Also, in the case of Fitz, there will be a cap minimum in the near future (either 2012 or 2013, can't remember right now), so they have to spend money somewhere whether they like it or not.

Well, if they plan to sell to someone that wants to move the team, fan interest is not necessary to keep the value of the team up.

NO BUFFALO Bills fans will ever follow that team if they move. There may be a few people that call themselves Bills fans that will still be fans if the Bills move, but they are NOT BUFFALO Bills fans.

The cap takes effect in 2013. By that time Fitz will most likely no longer be a Bill.

[HAMMER]

I have 0 faith that More Cowbell knows anything more than any of us.

I don't discount he has contacts and I believe what he says for the most part.

I don't however think anyone knows for sure what will happen. The above is the safe sentiment and could most certainly happent but no one knows for sure.

Please reread your post, sentence one and two are direct contradictions, which is it?

[OpIv37]

Well, if they plan to sell to someone that wants to move the team, fan interest is not necessary to keep the value of the team up.

NO BUFFALO Bills fans will ever follow that team if they move. There may be a few people that call themselves Bills fans that will still be fans if the Bills move, but they are NOT BUFFALO Bills fans.

The cap takes effect in 2013. By that time Fitz will most likely no longer be a Bill.

Right, most Bills fans won't carry over to a new team.

But, which franchise do you think is more valuable right now? Jacksonville, which hasn't sold out a home game in 3 years, or the Bills, who still manage to sell out 6 or so home games a year despite having a ****ty team and playing in a larger stadium in ****ty weather?

Ralph wants to get the most amount of money that he can. If they make it too obvious to the fans that all the FO cares about is limiting long-term liabilities for a potential sale, the value of the team goes down because people will stop showing up.

[OpIv37]

Also, fan interest in the Bills could be a selling point for a new owner because it gives them leverage.

A new owner could say "Hey, LA/Toronto/San Antonio/Las Vegas, you want this team? Build me a sweet stadium with a sweet lease. Otherwise, I can just stay here and make money in Buffalo and save myself a lot of hassle."

[better days]

Right, most Bills fans won't carry over to a new team.

But, which franchise do you think is more valuable right now? Jacksonville, which hasn't sold out a home game in 3 years, or the Bills, who still manage to sell out 6 or so home games a year despite having a ****ty team and playing in a larger stadium in ****ty weather?

Ralph wants to get the most amount of money that he can. If they make it too obvious to the fans that all the FO cares about is limiting long-term liabilities for a potential sale, the value of the team goes down because people will stop showing up.

The Bills have more value in Buffalo than the Jags do in Jax. If someone wants to buy a team to move them, then fan interest plays no part of that value. It really does not matter if fans show up or not if you plan to move the team anyway.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Please reread your post, sentence one and two are direct contradictions, which is it?
You re read it

[better days]

Also, fan interest in the Bills could be a selling point for a new owner because it gives them leverage.

A new owner could say "Hey, LA/Toronto/San Antonio/Las Vegas, you want this team? Build me a sweet stadium with a sweet lease. Otherwise, I can just stay here and make money in Buffalo and save myself a lot of hassle."

Well, LA WANTS a team & they are trying to get a Stadium built there already. Toronto would REQUIRE a new stadium if someone wanted to move the team there because they do not have an NFL worthy Stadium. Same with San Antonio & Vegas but as I already said neither of those two Cities will ever see an NFL team.

[OpIv37]

The Bills have more value in Buffalo than the Jags do in Jax. If someone wants to buy a team to move them, then fan interest plays no part of that value. It really does not matter if fans show up or not if you plan to move the team anyway.

Fan interest plays a part in the INITIAL value- ie, the selling price. And that's the only number Ralph cares about. Again, the Bills having value in Buffalo gives a new owner leverage for moving the team.

[Ed]

I don't doubt more cowbell's connections and what not, but the problem with the speculation and these scenarios is that they are all contingent upon Ralph Wilson passing away. And last I checked there's no set date for that unless someone is aware of a terminal illness he has. Ralph could die today, or he could end up living another 5+ years. If Ralph does end up making it at least a few more years then they will already be locked into a new lease with new stadium upgrades, a new toronto deal, and there will be at least one team in LA, maybe 2.

I don't see Vegas or San Antonio being good options either. San Antonio is not very big and there are already two teams in Texas. I'm sure most people in San Antonio are already big Cowboy or Texan fans. Vegas isn't that big either and has been losing population ever since the housing market crash.

Plus, Jim Kelly is going to save the day when Ralph passes, so don't worry about it.

[better days]

I don't doubt more cowbell's connections and what not, but the problem with the speculation and these scenarios is that they are all contingent upon Ralph Wilson passing away. And last I checked there's no set date for that unless someone is aware of a terminal illness he has. Ralph could die today, or he could end up living another 5+ years. If Ralph does end up making it at least a few more years then they will already be locked into a new lease with new stadium upgrades, a new toronto deal, and there will be at least one team in LA, maybe 2.

I don't see Vegas or San Antonio being good options either. San Antonio is not very big and there are already two teams in Texas. I'm sure most people in San Antonio are already big Cowboy or Texan fans. Vegas isn't that big either and has been losing population ever since the housing market crash.

Plus, Jim Kelly is going to save the day when Ralph passes, so don't worry about it.

I just read about a lady down here that just celebrated her 105th birthday. It is possible Ralph lives another 10 years or more.

[OpIv37]

It comes down to this: we don't know what is going to happen because it's all speculation and circumstantial evidence.

Circumstantial evidence that the team will stay:
1. Strong Fan Base
2. Commitment from high-level people to keeping the Bills in Buffalo (senators, governor, Jim Kelly)
3. Lack of facilities for supporting an NFL team in potential new locations for the Bills
4. If a team does move, several teams are equal or better prospects than the Bills for moving: Jacksonville, Minnesota, San Diego.

Circumstantial evidence that the team will leave:
1. No long term stadium lease
2. Limited long term liabilities
3. None of the people who have committed to keeping the team in Buffalo actually have the power to make it happen.
4. An aged owner whose family has no interest in running the team.
5. Other, larger cities that want teams that may be more attractive to the NFL.

None of this is definitive and there is no way to determine what the future of the franchise will be at this point in time. But moving the team is well within the realm of possibility, and it's something that we need to be prepared for.

[OpIv37]

I just read about a lady down here that just celebrated her 105th birthday. It is possible Ralph lives another 10 years or more.

It's possible for PEOPLE to live to be 105. We don't know what Ralph's specific health situation will be. He could be remarkably healthy for 91, or he could have a medical condition that means he won't last another 6 months. Unless he chooses to make the information public, we don't know.

[better days]

It comes down to this: we don't know what is going to happen but it's all speculation and circumstantial evidence.

Circumstantial evidence that the team will stay:
1. Strong Fan Base
2. Commitment from high-level people to keeping the Bills in Buffalo (senators, governor, Jim Kelly)
3. Lack of facilities for supporting an NFL team in potential new locations for the Bills
4. If a team does move, several teams are equal or better prospects than the Bills for moving: Jacksonville, Minnesota, San Diego.

Circumstantial evidence that the team will leave:
1. No long term stadium lease
2. Limited long term liabilities
3. None of the people who have committed to keeping the team in Buffalo actually have the power to make it happen.
4. An aged owner whose family has no interest in running the team.
5. Other, larger cities that want teams that may be more attractive to the NFL.

None of this is definitive and there is no way to determine what the future of the franchise will be at this point in time. But moving the team is well within the realm of possibility, and it's something that we need to be prepared for.

Exactly. It is all speculation. NOBODY knows what will happen to the Bills. Bidwell knows NOTHING. If he commented on the Bills he is only speculating. The OP is only speculating & I doubt Bidwell ever mentioned San Antionio or Vegas because I'm sure he knows the NFL will never go to either of those Cities.

[Ed]

I just read about a lady down here that just celebrated her 105th birthday. It is possible Ralph lives another 10 years or more.
Yeah you never know. Ralph could end up out living some of these potential buyers like he did with Ted Rogers.

My grandma is 93 and still lives on her own, drives, and takes care of herself. Her mother lived to 100. Ralph seems pretty healthy to me for a 90+ year old with the exception of his recent pelvic injuries, so who knows.

On a side note, I've also heard rumors that the NFL would ideally like to have two teams in LA and those two teams would be the Chargers and Jaguars. Then the Jaguars would become part of the NFC West and St. Louis would move to the AFC South, which would work out better for them geographically being in the same division as Indy, Tenn, and Houston as opposed to being aligned with three west coast teams.

[bluerosekiller]

Hey, please don't speak for me about which team I will or won't follow should they relocate, thank you very much.
Would I be crushed if the team were moved from Buffalo? Absolutely.
But, who can say for sure how I'll feel about them in their absense?
I mean, I may hate the new owner, but still follow the team. It certainly wouldn't be unpresidented as I've pretty much hated on ol' man Wilson for a long time, but LOVE his team ( though not for these past few weeks I have to admit, with this latest complete collapse after a promising start coming so close on the heels of the same scenario in '08, I've just given up on this season ). So... who knows?
Honestly, if they were to relocate somewhere like LA or San Antonio, I'd very likely stop considering them The Bills altogether & just consider them another sort of expansion team. But, if they just went 90 minutes or so up the QEW, I'd still follow them. My family has deep roots in Ontario & Toronto is one of my fav cities in the world, so I could get used to them there.
It would still hurt like hell to lose them, don't get me wrong, but I'd live.
But, I know, a lot of other fine folks wouldn't be able to. Or at least, their quality of living would go WAY down.
A HUGE part of western New York's identity is The Bills. And if they lost it, I think the entire area would suffer from PTSD. Seriously.
And, I have to think the powers that be know it. So, there going to fight tooth & nail to keep them. 'cause they know that whose ever at the helm when/if the area lost The Bills would lose their job quickly & go down as one of the most hated individuals in the area's history.

[trapezeus]

i think the NFL knows "moving" the team will be a hassle and that moving to LA is a long shot for the bills. espeecially with the articles about the owners hating the moving fees that can come close to $70MM.

Therefore, i'm pretty sure, they are going to figure out a way to keep this toronto thing going and games just disappearing until the team moves out. This way they get the toronto games, tehy keep the fanbase and n o one is the wiser.

Move it out, you have a PR nightmare.

The NFL needs to start running its self like a regular company and stop feeding off the teet of public funding. They are like defense contractors. they just get huge payouts and no one knows that the hell it is that they do really.

[Mr. Pink]

One, San Diego will go back to being the Los Angeles Chargers. Could be as earlier as 2012, to be honest. San Diego NEEDS a new stadium and it either gets voted down by the voters or completely tabled and doesn't make it to the ballot. They're good as gone.

Las Vegas, as much as the NFL is based on gambling - injury reports and spreads, will never receive a pro team.

San Antonio will likely be blocked by Jerruh from getting a team.

I'm running out of cities where the NFL would like to make some inroads. There are huge college football cities in like Nebraska, Tennessee, Virginia, Oklahoma however I don't know how well an NFL team would do in the major cities of those states.

And then you have the Jags who have absolutely no business being in Jacksonville. Minnesota has constant issues with fan support and voters. Buffalo's situation isn't what anyone would call stable at the ownership front, let's face it, Wilson at this point is basically a lame duck owner and has been for a few years now.

So what are the options for the NFL? They want 2 teams in LA, there's SD and Jax taking those spots. So now you have 1 or 2 other franchises who are in limbo basically as things stand now in Buffalo and Minnesota. Problem is, where would the NFL put them that would make financial sense?

[Ed]

One, San Diego will go back to being the Los Angeles Chargers. Could be as earlier as 2012, to be honest. San Diego NEEDS a new stadium and it either gets voted down by the voters or completely tabled and doesn't make it to the ballot. They're good as gone.

Las Vegas, as much as the NFL is based on gambling - injury reports and spreads, will never receive a pro team.

San Antonio will likely be blocked by Jerruh from getting a team.

I'm running out of cities where the NFL would like to make some inroads. There are huge college football cities in like Nebraska, Tennessee, Virginia, Oklahoma however I don't know how well an NFL team would do in the major cities of those states.

And then you have the Jags who have absolutely no business being in Jacksonville. Minnesota has constant issues with fan support and voters. Buffalo's situation isn't what anyone would call stable at the ownership front, let's face it, Wilson at this point is basically a lame duck owner and has been for a few years now.

So what are the options for the NFL? They want 2 teams in LA, there's SD and Jax taking those spots. So now you have 1 or 2 other franchises who are in limbo basically as things stand now in Buffalo and Minnesota. Problem is, where would the NFL put them that would make financial sense?
I think ideally the NFL would love to see the Bills moved to Toronto.

[Mr. Pink]

I think ideally the NFL would love to see the Bills moved to Toronto.


I think the NFL is taking notice that the Toronto experiment isn't exactly going well though.

[better days]

Hey, please don't speak for me about which team I will or won't follow should they relocate, thank you very much.
Would I be crushed if the team were moved from Buffalo? Absolutely.
But, who can say for sure how I'll feel about them in their absense?
I mean, I may hate the new owner, but still follow the team. It certainly wouldn't be unpresidented as I've pretty much hated on ol' man Wilson for a long time, but LOVE his team ( though not for these past few weeks I have to admit, with this latest complete collapse after a promising start coming so close on the heels of the same scenario in '08, I've just given up on this season ). So... who knows?
Honestly, if they were to relocate somewhere like LA or San Antonio, I'd very likely stop considering them The Bills altogether & just consider them another sort of expansion team. But, if they just went 90 minutes or so up the QEW, I'd still follow them. My family has deep roots in Ontario & Toronto is one of my fav cities in the world, so I could get used to them there.
It would still hurt like hell to lose them, don't get me wrong, but I'd live.
But, I know, a lot of other fine folks wouldn't be able to. Or at least, their quality of living would go WAY down.
A HUGE part of western New York's identity is The Bills. And if they lost it, I think the entire area would suffer from PTSD. Seriously.
And, I have to think the powers that be know it. So, there going to fight tooth & nail to keep them. 'cause they know that whose ever at the helm when/if the area lost The Bills would lose their job quickly & go down as one of the most hated individuals in the area's history.

I am not speaking FOR you. I am speaking ABOUT you. If the Bills move from Buffalo & you remain a fan of the Bills, you are a Bills fan, but NOT a BUFFALO Bills fan. That is a simple FACT.

[Mr. Pink]

I am not speaking FOR you. I am speaking ABOUT you. If the Bills move from Buffalo & you remain a fan of the Bills, you are a Bills fan, but NOT a BUFFALO Bills fan. That is a simple FACT.


Not that these 2 places are viable option but just a hypothetical...

I would believe if the Bills were to move to say Rochester or Syracuse many people around here would remain a fan of the team and continue going to games seeing neither city is all that far away.

[Historian]

The beauty of the Buffalo franchise is that it's pretty much debt-free.

That makes it attractive to potential buyers, IMO.

[better days]

The beauty of the Buffalo franchise is that it's pretty much debt-free.

That makes it attractive to potential buyers, IMO.

Agreed & many people underestimate Ralph. He set it up to be that way. He put the Bills in position to get the most money possible when sold.

The best we can hope for is that the person or people that buy the Bills WANT to keep them in Buffalo.

[better days]

Not that these 2 places are viable option but just a hypothetical...

I would believe if the Bills were to move to say Rochester or Syracuse many people around here would remain a fan of the team and continue going to games seeing neither city is all that far away.

Well, a Stadium between Rochester & Buffalo would be a very viable option. They could still be called the Buffalo Bills & would not be much if any further from Downtown Buffalo than they are now.

Toronto on the other hand would be looked at the same as LA by BUFFALO Bills fans IMO.

[PromoTheRobot]

Simple.

They have to maintain fan interest to keep the value of the team up.

Also, in the case of Fitz, there will be a cap minimum in the near future (either 2012 or 2013, can't remember right now), so they have to spend money somewhere whether they like it or not.

Baloney. You are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say they are running lean to save money, then on the other you say they have to keep interest up. Which is it? There was no reason for them to extend Fitz or make Evans the #1 paid WR if this thread was true. NONE!

PTR

[Mr. Pink]

Baloney. You are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say they are running lean to save money, then on the other you say they have to keep interest up. Which is it? There was no reason for them to extend Fitz or make Evans the #1 paid WR if this thread was true. NONE!

PTR


They have to spend a little money to keep bringing dollars into the organization. They're running lean and spending on a few guys here and there to get people to keep spending their money on the team. Either by going to games, buying the Ticket, buying merchandise, etc...

You couldn't run an entire team full of bums and still get the people to spend their hard earned dough on the team. So you half ass it to still bring in profit.

That's the Bills, half assing NFL seasons since 2005.

[BertSquirtgum]

If they keep playing like losers I really don't care if they move. Here I come Cleveland Browns.

[OpIv37]

Agreed & many people underestimate Ralph. He set it up to be that way. He put the Bills in position to get the most money possible when sold.

The best we can hope for is that the person or people that buy the Bills WANT to keep them in Buffalo.

No one ever accused Ralph of being a bad businessman. He's a great businessman. He turned a $25,000 investment into a franchise worth ~$750 million and he's made a profit selling us an inferior product for years. The guy is a great businessman.

But being a great businessman and being a great NFL owner are two totally different things.

[OpIv37]

Baloney. You are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say they are running lean to save money, then on the other you say they have to keep interest up. Which is it? There was no reason for them to extend Fitz or make Evans the #1 paid WR if this thread was true. NONE!

PTR

It's not a contradiction at all because the options are not mutually exclusive. They are running lean, not running bare bones. They are running as lean as possible without killing fan interest. There is a reason to extend Fitz: to keep the fan interest and to meet the upcoming salary cap minimum.

Look at the long term liabilities of the Bills vs the long-term liabilities of other NFL teams. They are walking the fine line of limiting liabilities without killing fan interest: spending just enough money to not alienate fans.

You can put your head in the sand and pretend it's not true because they signed Evans and Fitz, but it's the reality.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Not that these 2 places are viable option but just a hypothetical...

I would believe if the Bills were to move to say Rochester or Syracuse many people around here would remain a fan of the team and continue going to games seeing neither city is all that far away.
Ok but that is not even remotely possible.

[Mr. Pink]

Ok but that is not even remotely possible.


Hey, I predicated my statement with those two options not being viable. Just hypothetical. And technically both of those cities have more of a population base than here in Buffalo.

[Bill Cody]

If they keep playing like losers I really don't care if they move. Here I come Cleveland Browns.

Why wait?

[BertSquirtgum]

Why wait?

GAY

[bf1]

I'd like to wash my hands of this team too. No better way than to move.

[better days]

Hey, I predicated my statement with those two options not being viable. Just hypothetical. And technically both of those cities have more of a population base than here in Buffalo.

That is nonsense. There are more people in the Buffalo AREA than in either Rochester or Syracuse.

[Bill Cody]

I live out West now, still keep in touch with a bunch of people, and I also have a connection who is good friends with the owner of the Bidwell's (Arizona Cardinals owner)



Bill Bidwell may be projecting what HE'd do (be a whore and move) onto the other 31 owners. I'm sure there's gossip among the owners about the Bills future, it's a fairly interesting topic. But noone really KNOWS what will happen to the Bills when Ralph finally kicks, not even Ralph. Do I think he's told other owners the Bills will be leaving Buffalo for sure when he dies? No and it makes zero sense that he would.

I mean is he going to PREVENT local groups from bidding? And if not where is the certainty that there will be a sweetheart deal waiting elsewhere (like the one Bidwell took to rip the Cardinals from St. Louis) in this economy? The days of cities ponying up for new stadiums may be over. And if there is no sweetheart deal (hardly a lock) and Ralph lives long enough to renew our lease who's to say it wouldn't make more financial sense to keep the team here? Your thread title is misleading in the extreme IMO.

[Figster]

The reason I don't buy this happening is because why would new ownership even pull an organization out of an area that is already established, has a very loyal and die hard fan base, to go to a new and completely unproven region that could fail.

The Buffalo Bills will always be Buffalo's Bills...

[more cowbell]

The reason I don't buy this happening is because why would new ownership even pull an organization out of an area that is already established, has a very loyal and die hard fan base, to go to a new and completely unproven region that could fail.

The Buffalo Bills will always be Buffalo's Bills...



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[BILLSROCK1212]

The NFL may rob Buffalo of the Bills for a short time. I don't think that that is out of the question, but they won't rob Buffalo of football forever.

[OpIv37]

The NFL may rob Buffalo of the Bills for a short time. I don't think that that is out of the question, but they won't rob Buffalo of football forever.

it depends if a) the league wants to expand and b) if the team moves to Toronto.

If the team moves to Toronto, football in Buffalo is dead. The fan base would overlap too much and the region can't support 2 teams.

[better days]

it depends if a) the league wants to expand and b) if the team moves to Toronto.

If the team moves to Toronto, football in Buffalo is dead. The fan base would overlap too much and the region can't support 2 teams.

The main problem would be that Toronto is part of Buffalo's territory. If the Bills moved to Toronto, then Buffalo would be part of that teams territory....unless an agreement was made before the Bills moved that it would not be the case.

I think there are enough fans to support a team in both Buffalo & Toronto. Toronto is the 5th largest City in North America & the Buffalo AREA is not as small as it is made out to be because when talked about the surrounding area is never included, but it is there.

Most Canadian Bills fans come from nearby, I would bet very few come from Toronto. I think those Canadian fans would continue to be Bills fans because

A) They have a history with the Bills

B) They enjoy the Buffalo experience of tailgating much more than they would enjoy the Toronto experience even if the price were comparable which leads us to

C) The cost of a Bills game will always be less than the cost of a game in Toronto just as the Sabres are a cheaper ticket than the Leafs.

[Ed]

If the Bills move, I don't think there's any way Buffalo gets a team again.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If the Bills move, I don't think there's any way Buffalo gets a team again.
Probably not... :(

[YardRat]

Believe my post, or don't believe it. The Bills will be purchased by a Danish midget clan and moved to Albany.

bf1 prefers 'little people' or 'vertically challenged'.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

One thing that people fail to bring up is the television ratings this area has when it comes to NFL games, not just the Bills. In most cases you can count on your one hand the number of cities that have higher ratings than this area, and the Canadian market has nothing to do with American television ratings. I really cannot see the NFL thinking it wants this team to move from this area and geographic. That is a huge hole to tell your biggest contributor of money that we are moving a team out of an already huge TV market into an area that could be huge, or an area that they know isn't huge. I also cannot see the NFL moving to Vegas, not even for the gambling aspect, but the fact that the unemployment rate is so high there right now. Nevada is having economic troubles, and they lost 70,000 people in a year.

I also don't see them wanting to move a team from the Northeast.

I am guessing her that Ralph is trying to save as much money for his family and will not spend any more than he absolutely has to. He is making boat loads of money right now for his family and I don't believe he cares about his football team anymore, just putting coin in his families pockets.

[Figster]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



How can you(or anyone) say something is a known fact by 31 owners before it happens?(reiterated repeatedly)

Who's got the crystal ball?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

One thing that people fail to bring up is the television ratings this area has when it comes to NFL games, not just the Bills. In most cases you can count on your one hand the number of cities that have higher ratings than this area, and the Canadian market has nothing to do with American television ratings. I really cannot see the NFL thinking it wants this team to move from this area and geographic. That is a huge hole to tell your biggest contributor of money that we are moving a team out of an already huge TV market into an area that could be huge, or an area that they know isn't huge. I also cannot see the NFL moving to Vegas, not even for the gambling aspect, but the fact that the unemployment rate is so high there right now. Nevada is having economic troubles, and they lost 70,000 people in a year.
Another good point on Nevada (see, for instance Jacksonville's and Tampa Bay's problems), but on TV ratings, remember this. Buffalo can't consistently sell out, so that puts a dent in the ratings and ad revenue. Also, even the NHL realizes that when Buffalo rates high, they're still too small to put much of a dent in the national Nielsens the way a high-rated big market team like New York or Philly can (or the BBM ratings for a Toronto or Montreal team). Hence why you see Rangers-Flyers every week on NBC and Leafs every week on CBC.

[BillsFever21]

said this before, and ill keep saying it:

there is absolutely no way the bills will move.

toronto is the 5th largest city in the western hemisphere, and the bills have made serious inroads into that market.

just this season, we showed that we can sell out the ralph no problem.

and, this is with a team that has been absolutely garbage for TWELVE FREAKING YEARS.

let's just say, the bills move to LA.

instantly, youre looking at a jags team that can't sell out monday night football games, with a new owner...

you don't think he would look at buffalo and think

"hmmm... i could be the only team in New York, have a RABID fan base, have toronto in my backyard and play a game or 2 there every year... oh and if i field a winner, sell 80,000 tickets at whatever price i want, because the city of buffalo revolves around the bills."

if all ralph wilson cared about was money, the bills would have left long, long long ago.

but the fact of the matter is, as bad as we are, this is a HUGE market and there will always be a football team in western new york.
Really? We proved that we can sell out this season no problem? We will have 3 blackouts this season and we haven't had an entire season sell out for the past few years or so. Hell I even remember 2 or 3 years ago playing Jacksonville at home in October which was our 3rd home game of the year and we couldn't sell it out and ended up with around 4 blackouts that season.

And if we field a winner they can sell 80,000 tickets at whatever price they want? For starters our stadium doesn't even hold 80,000 seats and is also considered an antique. Our stadium holds around 73,000. It's close but it's no 80,000 seats.

With that said we have problems selling out games now and that's with one if not the least average ticket price in the NFL. And the biggest factor in the equation since the general tickets sales are shared revenue is luxury boxes since that stays with the team. Buffalo doesn't have the wealth or big companies to charge as much as other cities do for luxury boxes and I remember hearing that we even have luxury boxes that are not sold out.

There is also not a chance they could charge whatever they wanted and still sell out every game no matter how well we played. Even during our only great span in our history we couldn't sell out every game and that was also with some of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL. If we can't sell out every game with the cheapest tickets in the NFL how do you suppose we would sell out with some of the highest ticket prices. Or even the league minimum ticket prices for that matter?

The Bills are a small market team that doesn't have a huge amount of wealth and upper middle class families. They have to rely on the surrounding regions to even have a chance to sell out. If you jacked up the ticket prices to even the league minimum season ticket sales would go down drastically.

I'm not saying what the original poster said is fact or is the current plan of the team or not but them two statements are extremely exaggerated and proven false.

I wouldn't be shocked if we did move when Wilson passes for the reasons I stated above and also by the original poster. The Wilson's will sell the team for the most money they can get and most likely the highest bid will come from an outside investor looking to move the team.

Also any new owner who invest almost a billion dollars give or take in an NFL team is going to want a new NFL stadium. Can and would Erie County/NYS build that stadium even IF they can afford it? That is a 50/50 chance at best. If they did the ticket prices would inflate even more in a city and region that doesn't have much wealth to begin with.

I hope to death the Bills never move. It wouldn't be the same and I would just be a casual fan of the NFL. I highly doubt I would find another team that I would become a diehard fan of after being a Bills fan since I started watching football. It also wouldn't be the same if they were playing in another city. Especially if the team name changed and they were no longer the Bills. That would definitely be the clincher.

[Goobylal]

The deal to stay is already in place.


This, the team is sold already to a local group that's waiting for Ralph to pass.
Can you guys elaborate on this, without naming any names? Do you know this for certain?

[paladin warrior]

if Buffalo Bills is moving. That mean only have 3 AfC east team. Pats,Miami Dolphins, NY Jets without Buffalo bills, Can't do that ,, Must have 4 AFC east team not 3

[YardRat]

Bill Bidwell may be projecting what HE'd do (be a whore and move) onto the other 31 owners. I'm sure there's gossip among the owners about the Bills future, it's a fairly interesting topic. But noone really KNOWS what will happen to the Bills when Ralph finally kicks, not even Ralph. Do I think he's told other owners the Bills will be leaving Buffalo for sure when he dies? No and it makes zero sense that he would.

I mean is he going to PREVENT local groups from bidding? And if not where is the certainty that there will be a sweetheart deal waiting elsewhere (like the one Bidwell took to rip the Cardinals from St. Louis) in this economy? The days of cities ponying up for new stadiums may be over. And if there is no sweetheart deal (hardly a lock) and Ralph lives long enough to renew our lease who's to say it wouldn't make more financial sense to keep the team here? Your thread title is misleading in the extreme IMO.

Ralph knows...don't kid yourself.

[BillsFever21]

if Buffalo Bills is moving. That mean only have 3 AfC east team. Pats,Miami Dolphins, NY Jets without Buffalo bills, Can't do that ,, Must have 4 AFC east team not 3
That wouldn't be a factor one bit. Wherever they moved would just be in the AFC East. Even if they ended up in Texas or California. They would just be at a big disadvantage when it came time to play divisional road games.

It's no different now then the Cowboys playing in the NFC East when they are in Dallas. There are other examples like the Colts playing in the South division when they're up North.

[better days]

Another good point on Nevada (see, for instance Jacksonville's and Tampa Bay's problems), but on TV ratings, remember this. Buffalo can't consistently sell out, so that puts a dent in the ratings and ad revenue. Also, even the NHL realizes that when Buffalo rates high, they're still too small to put much of a dent in the national Nielsens the way a high-rated big market team like New York or Philly can (or the BBM ratings for a Toronto or Montreal team). Hence why you see Rangers-Flyers every week on NBC and Leafs every week on CBC.

Well, if you think ratings are down when the Bills don't sell out, imagine how they would be if the Bills ever move from Buffalo.

Also I would like to know how much money Bills fans around the Country spend on the Sunday Ticket, going to sports bars & traveling to Buffalo & other NFL Cities to watch the Bills. I think it would be a lot more than people realize.

If the Bills ever move from Buffalo, the NFL will lose a LOT of MONEY.

[Beebe]

I don't think the NFL would lose money, in fact I think they would make more money if the BILLS move, but I think BILLS will move because of the owner and them having all those losing years and they can't sell tickets and we can't get any free agents to even call us back after they ignore are phone calls and I don't know if I'm the only one that thinks are cheerleaders are the worst in the NFL.One more thing that hurts BUFFALO is that we are third favorite team in New York. It's like if were the Clippers from LA.

[Figster]

My opinion/speculation,


There is a succession plan to keep the Bills in Buffalo and Jim Kelly will be involved in some way...

[Historian]

I hope that's true, however, ex-jocks haven't fared too well as NFL executives....I mean look at Elway, Marino and Gretzky.

The only one who seems to have a knack for business is Ozzie Newsome.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Another good point on Nevada (see, for instance Jacksonville's and Tampa Bay's problems), but on TV ratings, remember this. Buffalo can't consistently sell out, so that puts a dent in the ratings and ad revenue. Also, even the NHL realizes that when Buffalo rates high, they're still too small to put much of a dent in the national Nielsens the way a high-rated big market team like New York or Philly can (or the BBM ratings for a Toronto or Montreal team). Hence why you see Rangers-Flyers every week on NBC and Leafs every week on CBC.

But when there is even a hint of talent on this team, the games will sell out. There are a number of teams that are in contention and they haven't sold out this season. I remember seeing that the NFL was up to 23 blackouts this year, I could be wrong. Add that to the fact the NFL schedules three December games in Buffalo, one of them on Xmas eve. There are several teams that have playoff runs and have blackouts. The NFL attendance has gone down in four consecutive years. I think the NFL is afraid of what could happen if the Bills were to move. You don't have to think that way, but that is where I am. This team isn't a Buffalo team, it is a Western NY - Ontario team.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Well, if you think ratings are down when the Bills don't sell out, imagine how they would be if the Bills ever move from Buffalo.

Also I would like to know how much money Bills fans around the Country spend on the Sunday Ticket, going to sports bars & traveling to Buffalo & other NFL Cities to watch the Bills. I think it would be a lot more than people realize.

If the Bills ever move from Buffalo, the NFL will lose a LOT of MONEY.
Why would Buffalo expats stop following the Bills for doing the exact same thing they did with their own lives? That would be the ultimate hypocrisy!

[better days]

Why would Buffalo expats stop following the Bills for doing the exact same thing they did with their own lives? That would be the ultimate hypocrisy!

NONSENSE. Most people left Buffalo out of necessity, not by choice. If the Bills leave it will be by choice not necessity.

People that left Buffalo still follow the Bills because of the Bills history & the fact the Bills represent the City of Buffalo.

If the Bills moved from Buffalo, the new team would have no history with the Bills as I already explained about the Colts & they would not represent the City of Buffalo.

I guarantee you if the Bills move at least 90% of the current fans would no longer be fans of the new team.

[better days]

But when there is even a hint of talent on this team, the games will sell out. There are a number of teams that are in contention and they haven't sold out this season. I remember seeing that the NFL was up to 23 blackouts this year, I could be wrong. Add that to the fact the NFL schedules three December games in Buffalo, one of them on Xmas eve. There are several teams that have playoff runs and have blackouts. The NFL attendance has gone down in four consecutive years. I think the NFL is afraid of what could happen if the Bills were to move. You don't have to think that way, but that is where I am. This team isn't a Buffalo team, it is a Western NY - Ontario team.

The Bengals have been playing well this year & still have a shot at the playoffs yet they will be blacked out on Sunday for the 6th time in 7 home games played there so far this year.

The Bucs while playing as bad as the Bills now, started out strong like the Bills & they have had every game blacked out this year.

Anyone that complains the Bills can't sell out doesn't know what they are talking about. If & when the Bills ever put a winning team on the field, the Bills will have no problem selling out.

[NorthCarBills]

Believe my post, or don't believe it. The Bills will be purchased by a Danish midget clan and moved to Albany.

That trainer midget has been the informant all along!

[Johnny Bugmenot]

NONSENSE. Most people left Buffalo out of necessity, not by choice. If the Bills leave it will be by choice not necessity. If Politifact covered sports, this would be the Lie of the Year by a long shot. The dynamics behind the Bills leaving Buffalo are the exact same problems that prompted most WNYers to leave. Expats have zero excuse not following the Bills to another city because they did so themselves. In regard to Baltimore-- you're referring specifically to Baltimoreans. They have a new team now they can rally behind. Baltimore does not have the population and money decline problems western New York has. Buffalo-- if, and when the Bills leave-- will never get an NFL team again, just like it never got baseball or basketball back.

If you're a Bills fan living in NC now, after as horrendous as this team has been for over a decade, and you quit because LA wheeled-and-dealed to give the Bills a better stadium (with natural grass so the players won't get injured), better talent, a Super Bowl bid, and all sorts of other things WNY can't offer... you ought to realize that many of the businesses down there were bribed by Southern chambers of commerce in the exact same way. So, either root for them no matter where they are, or you have no room to root for them now and not want them to leave.

[better days]

If Politifact covered sports, this would be the Lie of the Year by a long shot. The dynamics behind the Bills leaving Buffalo are the exact same problems that prompted most WNYers to leave. Expats have zero excuse not following the Bills to another city because they did so themselves. In regard to Baltimore-- you're referring specifically to Baltimoreans. They have a new team now they can rally behind. Baltimore does not have the population and money decline problems western New York has. Buffalo-- if, and when the Bills leave-- will never get an NFL team again, just like it never got baseball or basketball back.

If you're a Bills fan living in NC now, after as horrendous as this team has been for over a decade, and you quit because LA wheeled-and-dealed to give the Bills a better stadium (with natural grass so the players won't get injured), better talent, a Super Bowl bid, and all sorts of other things WNY can't offer... you ought to realize that many of the businesses down there were bribed by Southern chambers of commerce in the exact same way. So, either root for them no matter where they are, or you have no room to root for them now and not want them to leave.

Well, it is true States try to lure businesses & football is a business but the reason people watch the NFL & follow a team is because it is also a sport.

There would be no point in following a team that used to be the Bills because there would no longer be a connection with that team.

Buffalo never had a major league baseball team, but take a poll if you like to see how many former Buffalo Braves fans are now fans of the LA Clippers or even watch NBA basketball in general.

I used to go to Braves games when they were in Buffalo but have not watched an NBA game since the Braves moved myself. TV ratings for the NBA are very low everywhere in the Country but I would imagine they are lower in Buffalo than most Cities.

[Historian]

Buffalo never had a major league baseball team, but take a poll if you like to see how many former Buffalo Braves fans are now fans of the LA Clippers or even watch NBA basketball in general.

:down:


I used to go to Braves games when they were in Buffalo but have not watched an NBA game since the Braves moved myself. TV ratings for the NBA are very low everywhere in the Country but I would imagine they are lower in Buffalo than most Cities.

:up:

[Bill Cody]

Ralph knows...don't kid yourself.

He has said the team will be sold to the highest bidder and that he won't sell it while he's alive. Exactly how would he know who the highest bidder is now when he's not even dead yet?

[Bill Cody]

Art Modell's name is the Cleveland area might as well be Benedict Arnold. He had financial issues in his non football businesses so he cashed in and moved the team to Baltimore. The team had a rabid fan base and had sold out the stadium for years. Could he have sold the team locally, paid off his debts and lived comfprtably and been able to walk down the street held high in Ohio? Absolutely. But his ego wouldn't allow that, he had to stay in the game. I doubt it was really worth it to him in the end. He KNOWS how much he is hated.

Ralph Wilson is that same kind of man. Selfish. Greedy. Souless. Like most Americans I'm scraping by. But there is an elite in this country that thinks 650 million isn't enough. I need 750 million. If it means millions of others have their hearts ripped from their chests, so be it. So I don't think we know the future, and I don't think Ralph knows it either. And he doesn't care.

[better days]

Art Modell's name is the Cleveland area might as well be Benedict Arnold. He had financial issues in his non football businesses so he cashed in and moved the team to Baltimore. The team had a rabid fan base and had sold out the stadium for years. Could he have sold the team locally, paid off his debts and lived comfprtably and been able to walk down the street held high in Ohio? Absolutely. But his ego wouldn't allow that, he had to stay in the game. I doubt it was really worth it to him in the end. He KNOWS how much he is hated.

Ralph Wilson is that same kind of man. Selfish. Greedy. Souless. Like most Americans I'm scraping by. But there is an elite in this country that thinks 650 million isn't enough. I need 750 million. If it means millions of others have their hearts ripped from their chests, so be it. So I don't think we know the future, and I don't think Ralph knows it either. And he doesn't care.

The ironic thing about Modell is he was forced to sell the team anyway after he moved it to Baltimore. He did get to see his team win a Super Bowl in Baltimore but had to sell it soon after that.

Modell is a dirtbag as is Irsey who moved the Colts from Baltimore to Indy. If the Bills move from Buffalo after Ralph dies he will forever be remembered as a dirtbag as well & I would love to go to the HOF in Canton to spit on his bust if that happens.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Buffalo never had a major league baseball team
That's not true. The Bisons were a major league team (1879-85), and depending on what you consider major, Buffalo also hosted the Players' Bisons (1890), Western League Bisons (1900) and Blues (1914-15). Buffalo's come close to luring an MLB team a few times since then, with the Continental League (1960) and, of course, the construction of Coca-Cola Field in the 1980s. But MLB has never come back.

[better days]

That's not true. The Bisons were a major league team (1879-85), and depending on what you consider major, Buffalo also hosted the Players' Bisons (1890), Western League Bisons (1900) and Blues (1914-15). Buffalo's come close to luring an MLB team a few times since then, with the Continental League (1960) and, of course, the construction of Coca-Cola Field in the 1980s. But MLB has never come back.

Well, if the NFL folds in this Century, when you are reincarnated in the 23 Century you can tell people that Buffalo had a major professional football team back when the NFL existed.

Buffalo had no major league baseball team in the MODERN ERA OK.

When Pilot field now called Coca Cola field was errected it was errected to be a MINOR League park because the City had failed to get a major league team before that.

[SABURZFAN]

That trainer midget has been the informant all along!


:chuckle:


i'm glad that i was able to swim through yordad's... er... i mean better days useless posts to find this one.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Well, if the NFL folds in this Century, when you are reincarnated in the 23 Century you can tell people that Buffalo had a major professional football team back when the NFL existed.

Buffalo had no major league baseball team in the MODERN ERA OK.

When Pilot field now called Coca Cola field was errected it was errected to be a MINOR League park because the City had failed to get a major league team before that.
Oh, really? Then why, pray tell, is there an entire deck of nothing but "rooftop?" That deck was supposed to be seating in the event Buffalo secured an MLB team. The MLB team never came, and it's been nothing but rooftop ever since.

[BertSquirtgum]

This guy makes a thread about the Bills moving then makes a thread about qutting on the team. What a pathetic joke. I would like to know how the NFL is going to re-work all the divisions if the Bills move. Bills aren't going anywhere. I hate stupid ass threads like this.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

This guy makes a thread about the Bills moving then makes a thread about qutting on the team. What a pathetic joke. I would like to know how the NFL is going to re-work all the divisions if the Bills move. Bills aren't going anywhere. I hate stupid ass threads like this.
Who needs to readjust any divisions? Arizona was in the NFC East for 14 years. Besides a NY Jets-LA rivalry would be ratings gold for the NFL. Keep 'em in the "East."

[HAMMER]

Art Modell's name is the Cleveland area might as well be Benedict Arnold. He had financial issues in his non football businesses so he cashed in and moved the team to Baltimore. The team had a rabid fan base and had sold out the stadium for years. Could he have sold the team locally, paid off his debts and lived comfprtably and been able to walk down the street held high in Ohio? Absolutely. But his ego wouldn't allow that, he had to stay in the game. I doubt it was really worth it to him in the end. He KNOWS how much he is hated.

Ralph Wilson is that same kind of man. Selfish. Greedy. Souless. Like most Americans I'm scraping by. But there is an elite in this country that thinks 650 million isn't enough. I need 750 million. If it means millions of others have their hearts ripped from their chests, so be it. So I don't think we know the future, and I don't think Ralph knows it either. And he doesn't care.

This is one of the most ridiculous and disrespectful posts I've ever read. Calling a 90+ year old founding father of the AFL selfish, greedy, and soulless? The man has given countless people jobs, given millions to charity, and kept the Bills in Buffalo when he could have relocated them years ago. He also loaned Al Davis money so he could have a franchise. How is that greedy, selfish, and soulless? You need a good beatin'.

[BertSquirtgum]

Who needs to readjust any divisions? Arizona was in the NFC East for 14 years. Besides a NY Jets-LA rivalry would be ratings gold for the NFL. Keep 'em in the "East."

wrong.

[Jaydog57]

I hope the team doesn't move. I like the division the way it is, and look forward to when a Bills/Dolphins game is a big deal again.

[BLeonard]

I would like to know how the NFL is going to re-work all the divisions if the Bills move. Bills aren't going anywhere. I hate stupid ass threads like this.

While I agree that the Bills aren't going anywhere, you can't honestly think that the divisions would have any impact whatsoever in a move...

Assuming that the move would be to LA, the NFL could simply:

1: Move the Colts from the AFC South to the AFC East, as the Colts were in the East before the current realignment.

2: Move the Chiefs from the AFC West into the AFC South, filling the spot vacated by the Colts.

3: Move the LA Bills into the AFC West, filling the spot vacated by the Chiefs.

The Colts would benefit by getting their AFC East rivalry games back, the Chiefs would benefit by not having to travel to San Diego and Oakland every season and the LA Team would benefit by giving the natural rivalries with the Raiders and Chargers, on top of putting them in a less competitive division, where they could be successful in a pretty quick fashion.

Again, I don't think the Bills are going anywhere, but it's not like the main concern would be realigning the divisions.

-Bill

[BertSquirtgum]

While I agree that the Bills aren't going anywhere, you can't honestly think that the divisions would have any impact whatsoever in a move...

Assuming that the move would be to LA, the NFL could simply:

1: Move the Colts from the AFC South to the AFC East, as the Colts were in the East before the current realignment.

2: Move the Chiefs from the AFC West into the AFC South, filling the spot vacated by the Colts.

3: Move the LA Bills into the AFC West, filling the spot vacated by the Chiefs.

The Colts would benefit by getting their AFC East rivalry games back, the Chiefs would benefit by not having to travel to San Diego and Oakland every season and the LA Team would benefit by giving the natural rivalries with the Raiders and Chargers, on top of putting them in a less competitive division, where they could be successful in a pretty quick fashion.

Again, I don't think the Bills are going anywhere, but it's not like the main concern would be realigning the divisions.

-Bill

I don't like it.

[Bill Cody]

This is one of the most ridiculous and disrespectful posts I've ever read. Calling a 90+ year old founding father of the AFL selfish, greedy, and soulless? The man has given countless people jobs, given millions to charity, and kept the Bills in Buffalo when he could have relocated them years ago. He also loaned Al Davis money so he could have a franchise. How is that greedy, selfish, and soulless? You need a good beatin'.

Apparently you're fine with Wilson's current stance on the sale of the Bills which is "if my kids can get a nickel more from some carpet bagger that wants to move the team to wherever I'm 100% behind them". Because that is in fact his current stance, he's said as much.

And for the record he's actually 93 not 90. When is enough enough? He could very very easily guarantee the Bills stay in WNY RIGHT NOW, it's not open for debate. But he won't. Why? Because he's selfish, greedy and soulless. IMO an NFL team isn't like other "assets" like cars, houses and yachts. It's a public trust, one that hundreds of thousands have a stake in. The NFL has made Ralph Wilson very very wealthy. He can afford to be charitable. Giving people jobs was not doing people favors he was running a business and a damn profitable one at that. So spare me the sermon. Wilson has been fine with profiting from a socialized system which is what being an NFL owner really is, every franchise benefits from the profits of the overall enterprise, but when it comes to selling the team he's all about privatizing those gains to the absolute max for his aires. That's his right but don't ask me to kiss his ring for doing it. IMO it flat out sucks. The Bills in Buffalo are a lot bigger than one man.

[OpIv37]

This is one of the most ridiculous and disrespectful posts I've ever read. Calling a 90+ year old founding father of the AFL selfish, greedy, and soulless? The man has given countless people jobs, given millions to charity, and kept the Bills in Buffalo when he could have relocated them years ago. He also loaned Al Davis money so he could have a franchise. How is that greedy, selfish, and soulless? You need a good beatin'.

Soulless is a bit harsh but the man is greedy and selfish. He does not spend to the cap and he hasn't shored up the future of the team in Buffalo so his already-rich family can get even richer.

He was a founding father of the AFL and gave Al Davis a loan? What has he done in the 50 ****ing years since then? Seriously, Ralph is one of the worst owners- if not THE worst owner- in the NFL in terms of putting a winner on the field, but you guys continue to let him slide because of something he did before most of us were even born.

People who defend Ralph, despite the mediocrity he has given us over the years, deserve the losing. Yeah, he gave us a team, but the city and the region more than repaid him for it by pouring their hearts, souls and money into the team, and making Ralph an even richer man in the process. It's time for Ralph to stop milking the fact that he simply gave us a team, and start repaying the fans for their loyalty and support by putting a winner on the field.

[BLeonard]

I don't like it.

Heh, well, I'm sure that the NFL will take that into consideration... :lol:

I can see it now... In one of the NFL Headquarters' boardroom meetings...

Goodell: "Well, there's the realignment plan if the Bills are moved to LA when a new owner takes over."

Goodell's Secretary: "Um, sir... Big problem with that... Some message board poster named HurkeyNuts doesn't like that plan."

Goodell: "Well, ****... Back to the drawing board, I guess."

-Bill

[stuckincincy]

[QUOTE=OpIv37Seriously, Ralph is one of the worst owners- if not THE worst owner- in the NFL in terms of putting a winner on the field, but you guys continue to let him slide because of something he did before most of us were even born.

[/QUOTE]

Come to Cincinnati. :whistling

[Bill Cody]

Soulless is a bit harsh

Sorry but it really isn't. Judas betrayed his friend Jesus for a handful of gold coins. In the big picture what would be the difference in life style for Wilson's kids if the team was sold now to a local group for 750 million or for 800 million to some mafia guys that want to move the team to Vegas? Answer: none. It's more money than anyone can spend either way unless you're Mike Tyson. You tell me where the soul is of someone that can get rich off a region and then get buried with his middle finger extended to those same fans. If telling the truth means I need a beating, bring it on. The rest of your post is right on.

[Figster]

Bad time for a thread like this in my opinion and its a bad time for some of the posts I'm reading.

Myself personally, some of you need to find another scapegoat in my opinion instead of blaming a 93 year old man that is not in control of Football Operations.

Without RW we wouldn't have a football team!!!

[BLeonard]

Without RW we wouldn't have a damn football team!!!

Well, to be fair, I could make the argument that we don't really have a football team now... At least not a PROFESSIONAL football team.

Also, to be honest, if this is the kind of effort and commitment the fans are going to get from this "team," I'm not sure that it's really worth it to have a team, anyway.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not happy to "just have a team." If the team (or the Front Office, to be more accurate) isn't going to try to be competitive, or at least make an effort to be a professional-level franchise, I'd rather they pack their **** and go.

-Bill

[Figster]

Well, to be fair, I could make the argument that we don't really have a football team now... At least not a PROFESSIONAL football team.

Also, to be honest, if this is the kind of effort and commitment the fans are going to get from this "team," I'm not sure that it's really worth it to have a team, anyway.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not happy to "just have a team." If the team (or the Front Office, to be more accurate) isn't going to try to be competitive, or at least make an effort to be a professional-level franchise, I'd rather they pack their **** and go.

-Bill

Rome wasn't built in a day

Regime changes have hurt this organization more then anything...

[BLeonard]

Rome wasn't built in a day

Regime changes have hurt this organization more then anything...

I'll bet Rome looked a lot more finished than the Bills do after 12 years... The World Trade Center is being rebuilt quicker than the Bills are.

As far as the "regime changes" are concerned, answer me this: Who's been the one constant through all of the "regimes?"

-Bill

[Figster]

I'll bet Rome looked a lot more finished than the Bills do after 12 years... The World Trade Center is being rebuilt quicker than the Bills are.

As far as the "regime changes" are concerned, answer me this: Who's been the one constant through all of the "regimes?"

-Bill

Marv Levy did more damage to this organiztion upon departure when he decided a GM wasn't needed then any single person in the history of the franchise. You would think a man like Marv Levy could be trusted,Hell, I thought having Marv back in any capacity would be a huge plus, I'll bet the majority of the fan base felt the same way.


This is only Nix/Gailey's 2nd season...

[BLeonard]

Marv Levy did more damage to this organiztion upon departure when he decided a GM wasn't needed then any single person in the history of the franchise. You would think a man like Marv Levy could be trusted,Hell, I thought having Marv back in any capacity would be a huge plus, I'll bet the majority of the fan base felt the same way.


This is only Nix/Gailey's 2nd season...

Oh, so LEVY decided that the Bills didn't need a GM?

Apparently, he didn't convince Wilson that they didn't need a GM, as Russ Brandon was hired into the position when Levy left.

Guess who decided to hire Nix? Wilson and Brandon: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Brandon-promoted-to-CEO-Nix-named-Bills-GM/c474360d-4157-4de0-a282-cc1fe57be5d3



Brandon, meanwhile was named Chief Executive Officer of the Bills after serving the past two years as COO/GM.


I'm not saying that Levy was a good GM... But, who do you think made the decision to make Russ Brandon the GM after Levy left? Who do you think decided to bring Levy in in the first place?

As far as it being "only Nix and Gailey's 2nd season," personally, I don't buy all of this "multi-year rebuild" bull****. Why is it every other team in the NFL doesn't need a "multi-year rebuild" plan?

You're telling me that you buy that it takes 3 or more seasons to turn a 6-10 team into a 10-6 team, competing for the playoffs? My guess is, you'll say "They're starting from scratch," which is bull**** too... A good chunk of the "good players" the Bills have were here during the Jauron era... So, it's not like they are really "turning over the roster," either.

But, keep thinking that the P.T. Brandon, BarNix & Gailey Circus is heading in the right direction, but more importantly, keep buying tickets and merchandise... It's customers like you that Ralph Wilson depends on.

-Bill

[imbondz]

even tho I hate the Bills and everything they stand for, I would cut off my left and right arm if it would keep them in Buffalo.

[Figster]

Oh, so LEVY decided that the Bills didn't need a GM?

Apparently, he didn't convince Wilson that they didn't need a GM, as Russ Brandon was hired into the position when Levy left.

Guess who decided to hire Nix? Wilson and Brandon: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Brandon-promoted-to-CEO-Nix-named-Bills-GM/c474360d-4157-4de0-a282-cc1fe57be5d3



I'm not saying that Levy was a good GM... But, who do you think made the decision to make Russ Brandon the GM after Levy left? Who do you think decided to bring Levy in in the first place?

As far as it being "only Nix and Gailey's 2nd season," personally, I don't buy all of this "multi-year rebuild" bull****. Why is it every other team in the NFL doesn't need a "multi-year rebuild" plan?

You're telling me that you buy that it takes 3 or more seasons to turn a 6-10 team into a 10-6 team, competing for the playoffs? My guess is, you'll say "They're starting from scratch," which is bull**** too... A good chunk of the "good players" the Bills have were here during the Jauron era... So, it's not like they are really "turning over the roster," either.

But, keep thinking that the P.T. Brandon, BarNix & Gailey Circus is heading in the right direction, but more importantly, keep buying tickets and merchandise... It's customers like you that Ralph Wilson depends on.

-Bill

Some people are going to continue to blame RW regardless of what I or anyone else says/ posts. Levy in my opinion was the guy Wilson depended on to make sound football decisions and Levy knew the situation when he departed. If Marv Levy would have done his job properly he would have advised RW ahead of time to find a new GM and that he would help Wilson find a good replacement. Instead, in Levy's haste to get out of Buffalo, he allowed Russ Brandon/glorified marketing manager to take over Football operations. Did RW allow it to happen, sure he did, but at the advice of an old and wise Football savvy coach/ long time friend.

RW has always tried to field a good Football team in my opinion. Everyone knows as long as RW is alive the Buffalo Bills are staying in Buffalo. For those of you who are calling for Wilson to sell his life long dream of winning a Championship before he dies just so we can feel better about the situation, get real, because its not happening.

Myself personally, I'll always be forever greatful to RW,

I'll never stop Billieving...

[better days]

Oh, really? Then why, pray tell, is there an entire deck of nothing but "rooftop?" That deck was supposed to be seating in the event Buffalo secured an MLB team. The MLB team never came, and it's been nothing but rooftop ever since.

Well, I knew the Stadium was designed to be expandable in the event Buffalo ever got a major league baseball team, but I thought they had given up any serious effort to get one before the stadium was built.

I was WRONG. After hearing Bob Rich owner of the Bisons on a podcast of the Shredd & Ragan Show that was aired 12/20/11 hour 3-1 available on I-Tunes, I learned that Buffalo came very close to getting a team after Pilot field was errected but instead Miami & Denver were awarded teams.

EVERYONE should listen to that podcast. Rich was on the Shredd & Ragan show to promote " The Right Angle" a book he had just written, & most likely a good read. I think it would make a better Christmas Pressent for most of us than a tie or pair of sox.

It was a great interview with Rich giving insight about the Sabres, Baseball in Buffalo, & the Bills. I think anyone that hears it will come away with a much greater sense of belief that the Bills will remain in Buffalo after Ralph dies.

Thank God that Buffalo has Civic leaders like Bob Rich that understand how much the Bills mean to the Buffalo area & how important it is to keep them in Buffalo. I am not worried the Bills will ever move any longer after hearing him.

[Bert102176]

I have believed they were moving for the last 5 years cause it seems they do anything they can to piss off their fans, and try to get their fans to abandon ship.

[Bill Cody]

Some people are going to continue to blame RW regardless of what I or anyone else says/ posts. Levy in my opinion was the guy Wilson depended on to make sound football decisions and Levy knew the situation when he departed. If Marv Levy would have done his job properly he would have advised RW ahead of time to find a new GM and that he would help Wilson find a good replacement. Instead, in Levy's haste to get out of Buffalo, he allowed Russ Brandon/glorified marketing manager to take over Football operations. Did RW allow it to happen, sure he did, but at the advice of an old and wise Football savvy coach/ long time friend.

RW has always tried to field a good Football team in my opinion. Everyone knows as long as RW is alive the Buffalo Bills are staying in Buffalo. For those of you who are calling for Wilson to sell his life long dream of winning a Championship before he dies just so we can feel better about the situation, get real, because its not happening.

Myself personally, I'll always be forever greatful to RW,

I'll never stop Billieving...

I can feel a tear starting to well up.....:teary:

There are 2 kinds of owners- meddlers and non meddlers. Meddlers don't win. Wilson is a meddler. If he wasn't Bill Polian would still be here. So that's the crux of point #1.

Point # 2 is this: Ralph Wilson has it in his control to guarantee that the Bills stay in Buffalo. He won't do so.

So forgive me for not being "grateful". We're all hungry but getting served a **** sandwich year after year gets old. Ralph Wilson has a lifelong dream of winning before he dies? Awesome. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Neither does trickle down dreams. :trance:

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Some people are going to continue to blame RW regardless of what I or anyone else says/ posts. Levy in my opinion was the guy Wilson depended on to make sound football decisions and Levy knew the situation when he departed. If Marv Levy would have done his job properly he would have advised RW ahead of time to find a new GM and that he would help Wilson find a good replacement. Instead, in Levy's haste to get out of Buffalo, he allowed Russ Brandon/glorified marketing manager to take over Football operations. Did RW allow it to happen, sure he did, but at the advice of an old and wise Football savvy coach/ long time friend.

RW has always tried to field a good Football team in my opinion. Everyone knows as long as RW is alive the Buffalo Bills are staying in Buffalo. For those of you who are calling for Wilson to sell his life long dream of winning a Championship before he dies just so we can feel better about the situation, get real, because its not happening.

Myself personally, I'll always be forever greatful to RW,

I'll never stop Billieving...
I have a lifelong dream of winning an NFL championship, too. However, I know enough that it's impossible to do it in Buffalo. There are pipe dreams, and there are achievable goals. Winning an NFL championship, with the current roster, the current market, and the current state of the NFL is a pipe dream, and if you can't compete in the NFL, you shouldn't be in the NFL. Ralph isn't getting any younger; he should cash out, enjoy what little retirement he has left, and give himself the Art Modell treatment: a consultant's position and a sliver of a minority stake in the successor team.

I can't wait to see you wailing at One Bills Drive like those brianwashed North Koreans did with Kim Jong-Il. Forever grateful my endside, if it weren't for the Sabres, Ralph Wilson would have sent Western New York into a decade-long depression. In fact, judging by the population declines, it appears he may have done just that. Ralph Wilson, in the past twelve years, has done more harm to western New York than the worst New York politicians could even dream of!

[Fletch]

The entire organization is being run by Russ Brandon and Co. and Ralph is at the point (sadly) where he has no idea what is going on.



Did Ralph ever know what was going on? I don't think so.



I hope just as much as any die hard Bills fan hopes...that the Bills stay in Buffalo. I was born and raised in WNY and the Bills are a part of my life...we need to let these a-holes in the front office know that we know what's going on and stop sitting here with our blinders on.

With all of the parity in the league...you would seriously have to TRY to be as bad as the Bills have been the past 12 years...which is becoming more and more obvious is the case.


Who really thinks that the organization has much control over this? They don't.

I agree that one pretty much has to try to be so bad, however, they could have been better than they are with no additional money spent, simply spending it on good players instead of mediocre or crappy ones. So I'm just not sure there.

Otherwise it makes perfect sense, and while everyone hails Wilson as a great guy that's doing everything for us fans here in Buffalo, the fact of the matter is that he can sell the team right now to an interest that will keep it in Buffalo and still make a handsome profit. He bought the team for statistically nothing, a mere $25K which is what practice squad players get I think and the salary of someone making $12/hour. It''s less than 1/100th of a percent of what the team's now worth.

Has anyone considered that Wilson wants as a legacy when he kicks to have been the sole owner of the Buffalo Bills?

[Mindbender]

BOOO! This thread still alive?

[BertSquirtgum]

die thread, die.

[bigbry]

Its alive, its alive ,and a great source of laughs for Dolphin fans.

Thank You

[YardRat]

There are 2 kinds of owners- meddlers and non meddlers. Meddlers don't win. Wilson is a meddler. If he wasn't Bill Polian would still be here. So that's the crux of point #1.

Point # 2 is this: Ralph Wilson has it in his control to guarantee that the Bills stay in Buffalo. He won't do so.

Clueless post based on shaky circumstantial evidence.

Point #1-What 'meddling' did Ralph do to 'force' Polian out the door?

Point #2-You don't know whether he has or hasn't. Do you know for sure that there isn't a purchase agreement already in place?

[YardRat]

Its alive, its alive ,and a great source of laughs for Dolphin fans.

Thank You
We owe you. We've been laughing at the FishFags for over 20 years.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Point #2-You don't know whether he has or hasn't. Do you know for sure that there isn't a purchase agreement already in place?
Is there any credible evidence to believe there is? Wilson's already stated, without any doubt, that the team is not for sale and that it's going up to the highest bidder upon his death. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's written in his will. His own word indicates there's no agreement. So, unless he's lying through his dentures, there is no mystery deal and there's no magic coalition led by Jim Kelly waiting to save the day. We have about as much evidence of there being a secret deal as we do of 9/11 being a government-induced conspiracy. If there were a secret deal to keep the team here, then why are they demanding another $100M (a number they know WNY would be very reluctant to pay) in renovations to the stadium to try and stay in town? Why do they continue to let Rogers suggest the idea of taking even more games to Toronto? We don't see Ralph Wilson or Russ Brandon out there assuring people that this team is going to stay in Western New York-- something you'd think they'd want to do to keep the confidence up if indeed the Bills had plans to stay long-term. They don't even need specifics.

[Jan Reimers]

Despite what the pessimists and conspiracy theorists think, I believe there is a better than 2 to 1 chance the Bills stay right where they are.

The state and county will pay the $100M or so for stadium renovations in return for a fairly long term lease. The state, local and even federal politicians (Schumer et. al.) know the economic and prestige value of keeping the Bills in Buffalo.

A renovated stadium with a sweetheart lease will be a tremendous advantage to new ownership. As will the strong fan base and avoidance of relocation costs. There is enough local money - Rich, Pegula, Golisano, etc. - to come up with ownership which will see that money can be made here. The team traditionally ranks in the top half of the league in net reverue.

The Bills will be in Buffalo for the forseeable future.

[Captain Obvious]

Its alive, its alive ,and a great source of laughs for Dolphin fans.

Thank You

Do you really want the Bills move move BigCry? What if this site ceased to exist after the Bills moved to Los Angelse? Without this site you'll have no choice but to troll on a Patriots or Jets site.. You have a compulsive need to troll and flame..Without those 2 things there would be a huge void in your life.. and what fun would that be trolling on a Pats or Jets message board given those 2 franchises have been way more successfull in the last few years than the Phins and you'd routinely get your a** kicked on a jets or Pats site

[YardRat]

Is there any credible evidence to believe there is? Wilson's already stated, without any doubt, that the team is not for sale and that it's going up to the highest bidder upon his death. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's written in his will. His own word indicates there's no agreement. So, unless he's lying through his dentures, there is no mystery deal and there's no magic coalition led by Jim Kelly waiting to save the day. We have about as much evidence of there being a secret deal as we do of 9/11 being a government-induced conspiracy. If there were a secret deal to keep the team here, then why are they demanding another $100M (a number they know WNY would be very reluctant to pay) in renovations to the stadium to try and stay in town? Why do they continue to let Rogers suggest the idea of taking even more games to Toronto? We don't see Ralph Wilson or Russ Brandon out there assuring people that this team is going to stay in Western New York-- something you'd think they'd want to do to keep the confidence up if indeed the Bills had plans to stay long-term. They don't even need specifics.

Absence of credible evidence to the general public does not verify lack of existence. That's an assumption on anybody's part that comes to that conclusion. Nobody has 'evidence' for or against, and it's all speculation. You don't know if a deal is place, and you don't know if one isn't. We'll all find out at the same time.

[Night Train]

Point #1-What 'meddling' did Ralph do to 'force' Polian out the door?


There is actually something to that.

If you recall, Ralph made his daughter Linda Bogden a scout, which allowed her into the draft room. During the 1993 draft, she started arguing with Polian over who the Bills should draft when they were on the clock in Round 1. For Polian, he saw this as the last draw with Ralph, who he already had a rocky relationship with due to his meddling with players and positions on contracts. He kicked Bogden out of the draft room and was told shortly after he was done after that year.

Polian did have a temper and it's undercut him more through the years... but Ralph has ALWAYS been a meddler... and it wouldn't surprise me if he ordered Nix to pick a WR in round 1 this April in order to help make the Fitz contract not look like a huge mistake.

[YardRat]

There is actually something to that.

If you recall, Ralph made his daughter Linda Bogden a scout, which allowed her into the draft room. During the 1993 draft, she started arguing with Polian over who the Bills should draft when they were on the clock in Round 1. For Polian, he saw this as the last draw with Ralph, who he already had a rocky relationship with due to his meddling with players and positions on contracts. He kicked Bogden out of the draft room and was told shortly after he was done after that year.

Polian did have a temper and it's undercut him more through the years... but Ralph has ALWAYS been a meddler... and it wouldn't surprise me if he ordered Nix to pick a WR in round 1 this April in order to help make the Fitz contract not look like a huge mistake.

That's the first time I've ever heard that version of the supposed story...ever.

Polian wasn't even around for the '93 draft, he had been 'fired' already in February. His leaving had far less to do with Bogdan, and to a smaller extent Wilson, than it did with butting heads with Jeff Littman. Ralph had to can somebody, unfortunately for us he canned the wrong guy.

[Goobylal]

Polian would have been fired after the Bills' first non-playoff season, i.e. 1994. You don't lose 4 SB's and then miss the playoffs, and keep your job as GM. What Polian has needed is a complete rebuilding period, like having the first overall pick and a chance at a once-in-a-generation player (Bruce, although Polian didn't draft him) and Manning. And if not for facing quite possibly the weakest SB team ever (Bears), his teams would be 0-6 in the SB.

And with the way the Colts have played after losing Manning, Polian should be embarrassed for himself. But as "Luck" would have it, he'll get a chance at another once-in-a-generation player.

[Goobylal]

We owe you. We've been laughing at the FishFags for over 20 years.
The Dolls have so many advantages (weather/location, market, no state income tax) that being as bad as they have the past decade is an embarrassment. It's gotten so bad that none of the "name" coaches want to even coach there.

[Ickybaluky]

Polian would have been fired after the Bills' first non-playoff season, i.e. 1994. You don't lose 4 SB's and then miss the playoffs, and keep your job as GM. What Polian has needed is a complete rebuilding period, like having the first overall pick and a chance at a once-in-a-generation player (Bruce, although Polian didn't draft him) and Manning. And if not for facing quite possibly the weakest SB team ever (Bears), his teams would be 0-6 in the SB.

And with the way the Colts have played after losing Manning, Polian should be embarrassed for himself. But as "Luck" would have it, he'll get a chance at another once-in-a-generation player.

Say what you want about Polian, but he has made a lot of good moves as GM. He drafted a lot more good players than just Manning, and has successfully built 3 separate franchises. Sustained success over time isn't easy to accomplish, and not matter what you think of Polian he will probably have a bust in the HOF some day.

[Goobylal]

Say what you want about Polian, but he has made a lot of good moves as GM. He drafted a lot more good players than just Manning, and has successfully built 3 separate franchises. Sustained success over time isn't easy to accomplish, and not matter what you think of Polian he will probably have a bust in the HOF some day.
Sure he's made some good moves. But several of the key players on the Bills' SB teams (Kelly, Smith, Reed, and Reich) weren't drafted by him. His time in Carolina showed promise early, but he realized his high-pick QB, Kerry Collins, wasn't going to get it done, so he left there quickly. And in Indy, the rumors are that he had the team tank the 1997 so as to take the no-brainer pick in Manning, who as this season is showing, apparently is the sole reason for their success the past decade.

[YardRat]

Polian deserves to be in the HOF, and Manning wasn't as much of a 'no-brainer' at the time as some would like to think. Leaf was very much in the equation, with Manning carrying a red flag for under-performing in big games, which in hindsight was an accurate assessment that he carried over to the NFL.

[BertSquirtgum]

die thread, die.

[Typ0]

This discussion has been had so many times. Ralph Wilson owes no one nothing. He came right out and told us he wasn't going to sell the team and it was going to the highest bidder upon his death. Anyone that thinks that bidder is coming from Buffalo is in fantasy land. The team is history get used to it.

[bigbry]

We owe you. We've been laughing at the FishFags for over 20 years.


I've been laughing at the Bills for 40+

Long live Ralph Wilson.

[UltimateBillsFan]

http://www.billieve.org

[Typ0]

dumb ass fans thinking signing a petition is going to make a difference. Or this comment how they can sell out the stadium how many games were blacked out this year again? How are those luxury box sales? Get a grip money talks bull**** walks...

[DynaPaul]

I'm not losing any sleep over whether they move or not. I have no control over it. If they move I don't know what comes next. Maybe I'll cheer for their new duds or just another team. I don't know but I'm not going to be held hostage over a game.