County needs NFL expert in lease talks

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  • BLeonard
    BoB Sabermetrician
    • Jan 2003
    • 4625

    County needs NFL expert in lease talks

    Very good article here regarding the Bills and the lease extension... Glad to see a writer echoing some of the thoughts myself and other have had regarding a new lease: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/colu...icle701298.ece

    To truly protect taxpayer backs in this deal, the county needs to bring in a sports economist who knows the lay of the NFL land. It needs a hired gun familiar with recent or pending deals in, among other places, Jacksonville, Minnesota and Cincinnati. It needs someone who knows the pecking order of cities that covet teams and how to best tie the Bills to Buffalo. The people sitting with Ralph Wilson will know every rut and rock of that landscape.

    The Bills likely want upwards of $100 million in taxpayer-funded stadium enhancements. The 2013 expiration date on the Bills lease gives the county a chance to tie stadium improvements to the terms of a new lease. That includes everything from length of the deal to–most importantly, given the fragile health of the 93-year-old owner–provisions that make it as financially painful as possible for the next owner to abandon Buffalo.
    The relatively modest investment in a consultant could save millions in lease terms. It could better cement the team to the town. Beyond that, any sports economist will slap down the argument, which the Bills are sure to make, that the team brings economic benefits.

    “Economists pretty much agree that having a team or a [better] stadium brings very little in the way of economic impact,” said Robert Baade, an economics professor specializing in sports at Lake Forest College in suburban Chicago. “The benefit is primarily in enhancing the psychology of a community.”
    The team is reportedly amenable to a “clawback” clause, which reimburses taxpayers for the cost of stadium improvements if the team leaves. But Baade told me that teams typically try to pro-rate the payback, depending on when the team leaves. Sports economist Zimbalist recently told me that spending upwards of $100 million on the stadium should, in return, bring a lease extension of at least 20 years. It is the sort of guidance we will get if we have a consultant at the table.

    With the Bills hanging in the balance and more than $100 million to ante up, the stakes are high. Let’s not get played for suckers.
    -Bill
  • DynaPaul
    Registered User
    • Sep 2003
    • 7540

    #2
    Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

    No taxpayer money. Screw that, Ralph can pay for his own improvements.

    Comment

    • DraftBoy
      Administrator
      • Jul 2002
      • 107452

      #3
      Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

      Originally posted by DevilPaul
      No taxpayer money. Screw that, Ralph can pay for his own improvements.
      If you dont want to kick in any tax payer money you may as well tape up the boxes for the Bills move yourself.
      COMING SOON...
      Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
      We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!

      Comment

      • BLeonard
        BoB Sabermetrician
        • Jan 2003
        • 4625

        #4
        Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

        Originally posted by DevilPaul
        No taxpayer money. Screw that, Ralph can pay for his own improvements.
        While I don't particularly care for tax dollars being spent on privatized sports stadiums, it's the nature of the beast.

        The only team that doesn't is Green bay and that's because they can sell stock to pay for those sorts of things. Maybe someday, some politicians will get together and attack those antitrust laws so that EVERY team is allowed to raise funds this way.

        -Bill

        Comment

        • BLeonard
          BoB Sabermetrician
          • Jan 2003
          • 4625

          #5
          Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

          I posted a link to a recent article regarding the Packers' stock in the NFL Zone, as it wasn't really Bills related. Pretty intersting read: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...d.php?t=208944

          -Bill

          Comment

          • DraftBoy
            Administrator
            • Jul 2002
            • 107452

            #6
            Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

            Originally posted by BLeonard
            While I don't particularly care for tax dollars being spent on privatized sports stadiums, it's the nature of the beast.

            The only team that doesn't is Green bay and that's because they can sell stock to pay for those sorts of things. Maybe someday, some politicians will get together and attack those antitrust laws so that EVERY team is allowed to raise funds this way.
            -Bill
            You don't want that.
            COMING SOON...
            Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
            We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!

            Comment

            • NOT THE DUDE...
              Formerly MARCELL DAREUS POWER, now posting as DANNY BATTEN POWER
              • Jan 2010
              • 8826

              #7
              Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

              this doesnt look good. ugh...

              Comment

              • DynaPaul
                Registered User
                • Sep 2003
                • 7540

                #8
                Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                Originally posted by DraftBoy
                If you dont want to kick in any tax payer money you may as well tape up the boxes for the Bills move yourself.
                No way, Ralphie can do that himself too. This state is in too rough of a financial state to give away money for a stadium. Why should we give our money to an organization that should make these improvements on their own coin? That's business. And to boot, we haven't even had a winning team in 12 years!

                Comment

                • BLeonard
                  BoB Sabermetrician
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 4625

                  #9
                  Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                  Originally posted by DraftBoy
                  You don't want that.
                  Seems to work OK for Green Bay... Just sayin'

                  People who want to help buy the shares and the county, city and state doesn't have to put tax dollars towards the stadium projects.

                  What's the problem?

                  -Bill

                  Comment

                  • Jan Reimers
                    Thank You, Terry and Kim, for Saving the Bills. Now, Work on the Sabres.
                    • May 2003
                    • 17353

                    #10
                    Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                    Like it or not, if the team is to stay in Buffalo, the state and county will have to pony up $100M or so for stadium improvements. And that won't necessarily keep them in Buffalo, it's just a threshhold that will have to be met.
                    Should have known, way back in 1960 when we drafted Richie Lucas Number 1, that this would be a long, hard ride. But who could have known it would be THIS bad?

                    Comment

                    • Johnny Bugmenot
                      Will not tolerate vandalism.
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 4311

                      #11
                      Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                      Ralph Wilson's stake in the Bills is 100%, or roughly $800M. He could easily sell almost half of that and still control the team. The anti-corporation rule only limits the buyers, it doesn't rule it out completely.

                      Comment

                      • DraftBoy
                        Administrator
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 107452

                        #12
                        Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                        Originally posted by BLeonard
                        Seems to work OK for Green Bay... Just sayin'

                        People who want to help buy the shares and the county, city and state doesn't have to put tax dollars towards the stadium projects.

                        What's the problem?

                        -Bill
                        Because this isn't Green Bay. It won't end well at all.
                        COMING SOON...
                        Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
                        We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!

                        Comment

                        • delectrolux
                          Registered User
                          • May 2007
                          • 199

                          #13
                          Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                          Originally posted by BLeonard
                          The only team that doesn't is Green bay and that's because they can sell stock to pay for those sorts of things.
                          They sell useless stock certificates. It's a voluntary tax. Obviously that's different than involuntary, but it's still the community paying for the stadium improvements out of their own pockets. As far as I'm concerned, that's toMAYto / toMAHto.

                          I'd be interested to see what would happen if the Bills did the same thing right now. Sell useless "stock" certificates (call 'em "Bill's Boosters Bucks" or something stupid like that) and see if they raise $100Million. It's the same concept. Fan's money for a worthless piece of paper.

                          Comment

                          • better days
                            Registered User
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 22028

                            #14
                            Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                            Originally posted by delectrolux
                            They sell useless stock certificates. It's a voluntary tax. Obviously that's different than involuntary, but it's still the community paying for the stadium improvements out of their own pockets. As far as I'm concerned, that's toMAYto / toMAHto.

                            I'd be interested to see what would happen if the Bills did the same thing right now. Sell useless "stock" certificates (call 'em "Bill's Boosters Bucks" or something stupid like that) and see if they raise $100Million. It's the same concept. Fan's money for a worthless piece of paper.
                            Well, I would not say they are USELESS stock certificates, I would say they are WORTHLESS stock certificates.

                            They are useful in that they help the team raise needed money & give the fans a tangible feel of owning the team.

                            Comment

                            • BLeonard
                              BoB Sabermetrician
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 4625

                              #15
                              Re: County needs NFL expert in lease talks

                              Originally posted by delectrolux
                              They sell useless stock certificates. It's a voluntary tax. Obviously that's different than involuntary, but it's still the community paying for the stadium improvements out of their own pockets. As far as I'm concerned, that's toMAYto / toMAHto.

                              I'd be interested to see what would happen if the Bills did the same thing right now. Sell useless "stock" certificates (call 'em "Bill's Boosters Bucks" or something stupid like that) and see if they raise $100Million. It's the same concept. Fan's money for a worthless piece of paper.
                              Think about this: If they were as "useless" as you're claiming, why wouldn't the NFL allow every team to do it?

                              Also, if someone wants, what's the difference between a fan buying a $250 piece of "stock" or that same fan buying a $250 jersey with a player's name on the back that might not be with the team after a few seasons?

                              Why should Green Bay be allowed a potential revenue stream that other teams aren't allowed to have? Doesn't that go against the whole "parity" thing that the NFL is preaching?

                              -Bill

                              Comment

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