im gonna beat a dead horse

[djjimkelly]

alex smith watching him today tells more then ever

we ****ed up real bad with JP his 7-9 he played qb much better then alex smith did this year

coaching is everything!!!!!

yes u need players but coaching is number 1

instead of truly committing to JP we wate a 3rd on trent useless and so on and so on

ty DICKLESS JAURON

added in after this was not intended to be a bring back JP thread or anything like that its just to state the obvious that we made a very bad hire for our first round qb when hiring jauron and it should been someone hired who at least wanted to work with JP just like san fran did for smith finally

[Crisis]

JP sucks, get over it. JP was never close to the prospect Alex Smith was.

[djjimkelly]

JP sucks, get over it. JP was never close to the prospect Alex Smith was.


look hes ancient history he played better for us then smith has for 49ers

bottom line it hurts watching one team stick with their guy to get results

and watch us do idiotic decision after idiotic decision

[djjimkelly]

and the trent edwards draft pick and move to start him is the dumbest thing our franchise has done since 1999


sorry let me take that back

dickless jauron was the worst decision

so trent was number 2

[Mr. Pink]

:rofl:

I think it's hilarious there are STILL Just Putrid apologists.

About the point of this thread, Alex Smiths' past 3 seasons are better than anything than Putrid did here. Yet, you label Smith a bust and Putrid was screwed over?

[Philagape]

There really needs to be a separate forum for fanboys.

[djjimkelly]

not a fanboy i could care less who is the bills qb


i just want results

i remember what it was like in the late 80's and the entire 90's

we ruined our only real chance at a qb in the 00's and he should paying dividends for us and probably would have by now with a real coach and at that time a real GM

ill cheer for fitzpatrick now because what choice do i have

but to cheer against one draft pick like many on here do is idioctic

should we pray we actually build a team of first rounders like 49ers

[Typ0]

this thread belongs in the hall of fame.

[Mr. Pink]

Get over it, JP is the worst QB this franchise has had since Bruce Mathison.

Oddly enough they both wore the same number.

[bluerosekiller]

Get over it, JP is the worst QB this franchise has had since Bruce Mathison.

Oddly enough they both wore the same number.

I don't know, I think I'm willing to throw djjim a bone on this one & say that at the end of the day, Edwards was as bad as Losman. He looked like the better man early on, but then the wheels fell off about seven games into the '08 season & he was a wreck worse than JP ever was.
So, as far as the worst go, I might go with the both of them as 1-a & 1-b.

[bluerosekiller]

And while we're naming the worst of the worst, I have no qualms whatsoever about naming the man that was responsible for bringing Edwards in here as the absolute worst GM of all time though.
Marv Levy was so damned bad he couldn't have done a poorer job if he were deliberately trying to sabotage the franchise. IMO his two years at the helm are still very much having a negative effect on The Bills.
I'm still pissed at him & since that time I've reevaluated his legacy as head coach & have wondered if his record with The Bills & all those titles might not have been more the result of the players that Polian brought him rather than his genius.

[mightysimi]

I would like to think that a coach wouldn't have to teach a professional QB how to throw short to intermediate routes. I would like to think that he had that covered in high school. After watching happy feet and then sailing it over a guy 6 yards away from him a few too many times, I tend to disagree that coaching had anything to do with it.

[camelcowboy]

First of all Jp sucked, but Edwards showed far more then Jp. and he still sucked.

[djjimkelly]

not a JP edwards thread

this is a dick jauron was the worst hire the bills could have dreamed of

add in marv levy hire

the true sad era of bills football

[MikeInRoch]

we ruined our only real chance at a qb in the 00's and he should paying dividends for us and probably would have by now with a real coach and at that time a real GM

JP was not a "real chance at a QB".

[YardRat]

And while we're naming the worst of the worst, I have no qualms whatsoever about naming the man that was responsible for bringing Edwards in here as the absolute worst GM of all time though.
Marv Levy was so damned bad he couldn't have done a poorer job if he were deliberately trying to sabotage the franchise. IMO his two years at the helm are still very much having a negative effect on The Bills.

I blame Bill Walsh.


I'm still pissed at him & since that time I've reevaluated his legacy as head coach & have wondered if his record with The Bills & all those titles might not have been more the result of the players that Polian brought him rather than his genius.

Levy's legacy is that of a properly run organization.

Polian pulled the strings.
They hired good coordinators and let them do their jobs.
Marv was the glue that held the team together in the locker room...don't underestimate how important that was.

[Albany,n.y.]

JP is a never was. His 1st coach was Mularkey who combined with Wyche as his QB coach gave him a great opportunity to succeed & he failed miserably. The fact that Jauron inherited this bust & actually squeezed a decent season out of him in 2006 but realized early on in 2007 that he could never succeed with JP tells you more about JP. At the time, Edwards wasn't drafted to replace JP, he was drafted because the team thought he was a bargain in the 3rd, just like Houston was not planning on drafting any QBs this year & couldn't resist Yates in the 5th.
If JP couldn't thrive with Wyche, and couldn't get better with any other coaching staff (he's now with his 4th NFL team & his only success has been in the minors) then isn't it time to realize it was JP who was the bust & no matter who his coach is or was, he was never going to amount to anything.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the scouts who scouted him & the Bills management that traded up to draft him. JP is blameless because he doesn't have the talent, it's not his fault he got drafted. All Mularkey & Jauron did was realize JP was a dud who had to be replaced. I give them credit for not wanting JP to sink them.

[PTI]

Edwards showed something in his time before he had his balls removed by Adrian Wilson. I really thought he was going to be good before that.

[TigerJ]

Both Trent Edwards and JP turned out to have fatal flaws in their game. Whether or not with good coaching they could ever have overcome those flaws is something people can debate until the cows come home. I'm ready to forget both thos chapters in Bills history.

[GreedoII]

[quote=djjimkelly]alex smith watching him today tells more then ever

we ****ed up real bad with JP his 7-9 he played qb much better then alex smith did this year

coaching is everything!!!!!

yes u need players but coaching is number 1

instead of truly committing to JP we wate a 3rd on trent useless and so on and so on

ty DICKLESS JAURON

It's all about coaching. Alex Amith has been put in a position to succeed and not asked to do more than needed to win ball games. The win against the Sis all about a horrible Saints Def. Brees put up 32 with 5 turnovers on that SF Def. It show how bad the Saints D is giving up 36 to a very avg SF off.

[ThunderGun]

and the trent edwards draft pick and move to start him is the dumbest thing our franchise has done since 1999

We took Trent at the end of the 3rd round, so it's not like we were "forced" to start him. But when Trent took the field (after Wilfork's dirty hit on JP), Trent immediately showed more promise than JP ever did. How could they not start him?

Obviously, Trent turned out to be a trigger-shy pussy, eventually. But as much as I like JP as a person, he is/was a terrible QB. They made the right call by starting Trent.

[Forward_Lateral]

look hes ancient history he played better for us then smith has for 49ers



You should be banned for life for this idiotic, stupid, moronic statement.

[Crisis]

Dick Jauron ruined Gilbert Hamdan. With proper coaching he'd be the next Alex Smith.

[Bill Cody]

alex smith watching him today tells more then ever

we ****ed up real bad with JP his 7-9 he played qb much better then alex smith did this year

coaching is everything!!!!!

yes u need players but coaching is number 1

instead of truly committing to JP we wate a 3rd on trent useless and so on and so on

ty DICKLESS JAURON

added in after this was not intended to be a bring back JP thread or anything like that its just to state the obvious that we made a very bad hire for our first round qb when hiring jauron and it should been someone hired who at least wanted to work with JP just like san fran did for smith finally


the last of the lickers strikes again please stop

[Marvelous]

alex smith watching him today tells more then ever

we ****ed up real bad with JP his 7-9 he played qb much better then alex smith did this year

coaching is everything!!!!!

yes u need players but coaching is number 1
instead of truly committing to JP we wate a 3rd on trent useless and so on and so on

ty DICKLESS JAURON

added in after this was not intended to be a bring back JP thread or anything like that its just to state the obvious that we made a very bad hire for our first round qb when hiring jauron and it should been someone hired who at least wanted to work with JP just like san fran did for smith finally
----------------===C===L===A===P===------------

--I COULDN'T AGREE MORE Dude!
---ANY, or to be relaistic i'll say MOST QB's woulda bombed out during that era/team we had.. JP mighta been atleast a capable starter like a Matt Hassleback. Meaning just that "CAPABLE",, NOT A PROBOWLER, but reliable enough that one would have job security & radio & internet discussions WOULD-NOT be about replacing said QB..
---DEPRESSING FACT#1---The Ralph &/or team in general is cheap cheap cheap with coaching staff..
-Notice how almost all fired Head Coaches who go on to be another teams coordinator? Notice how we NEVER hire one of these coaches? Like Spagnola or..........

---I made a short list that could have EASILY been longer is i had a better memory tonight..But the point stands...And please DON'T BEAT ME UP over the list..They are just examples of the kind of coaches who are elite & most of the kind of coaches i'm refferencing have had head coaching gigs &/or will again & are alite coords...
---Scott Linehan,
- Cam Cameron
---Mike Nolan
-Dom Capers
---Clancy Pendergast
-Ron Rivera
---Gunther Cunningham
-Rob Ryan
---Mike Tice
-------Like i said, it's not a personal list,but just examples..
---The D-coord we signed 2-3 years ago from Miami,,i forget his name,,but he's a great example of a TURD. Ya get what ya pay for. There's -NO- excuse for us to be cheap with Defensive coords.There's alot more quality D-coords available every year then OFFENSIVE Coords.All these awesome D-coords. Some just elite coords like Rob Ryan are just really good Dcoords. Good/elite because they have experience..And some we're super elite enough to warrant beinga head coach @ some point..Getting hired to be a HeadCoach in the NFL is no small feat. It's the highest coaching job on the planet.So i really do value former head coaches..
--Back to Defense coords---How can we ignore The son of Buddy Ryan, Rob? And we hire a scrub positional coach from Miami to run our defense.. :wtf:
--I'm not a Rob(&/or Rex) Ryan fan. Nor a Buddy Ryan fan. Well i did like him busting Kevin Gilbride in the face heh :D ...
--IMO really good coords cost 5 mill a season-ish. & there's no cap for coaches. i wish there we're a minimal cap so The Ralph would be forced to spend on coaches..
---Since this is a coaching thread i'll bring up something that bothered me--When The Ralph/Buddy Nix PURGED the staff from Dick Juaran, he let go of 2-3 really good coaches. Esp Bobby April! Not just a SPecial Teams coach,,but promoted to Assistant Head Coach. WHatever that means..
--I struggled to find our 2008-09 position coaches. Esp considering Wiki is down for 24 hours for boring reasons..But memory reminds of RBs coach Eric Studesville being worthy to stay w/ team & our CB's & WR's coach.. I dunno why they we're all purged, besides just that what happens when a new coach &/or GM is hired...

--Back on original topic--This new QB coach & the fact that i read the word "WILDCAT" in every article about the guy,well, it reall annoys me. The wildcat is a joke & i hope i'm wrong,,pleae be wrong,,but if this is Chan Gailey & a non-clever attempt to use Brad SMith more.. GoodGod i hope not..Almost every play we used with Brad Smith sucked..QB sneaking being the exception obviously..

---This team needs quality coaches & we will be mediocre until then.. MoneyBall comes to mind just now..The odds will be stacked against us as long as we refuse to play for quality coaches..!

--Good thread & good point..To just take the easy way out & say "JP sucks/sucked is just lame and pathetic P.O.V.. I psersonaly did-NOT like JP because he was fast, but with -0- & i do mean Z-E-R-O agility. The dude was like forest Gump running. All speed & no ball carrier vision. WHATAYA KNOW that is coaching!! dingDingDing..I wonder how the next QB we draft will be any different..Truth is that we have a good QB right now & i think he could be what we need to be a playoff team if he could have a legit target....

[ParanoidAndroid]

:trance:

[djjimkelly]

You should be banned for life for this idiotic, stupid, moronic statement.


JP's numbers in his 7-9 year

are much better then smiths numbers this year

look your hatred for JP is evident

i started this thread by stating the obvious smith with a proper HC all of a sudden a semi competent QB

JP didnt have the #2 defense playing for him in the 7-9 year we won because of him

smith the defense carried him for most of the games this season.

get over yourself DICK jauron ruined our first round qb

im not JP ball licking

im furious dickless jauron ruined our 1st round qb the difference is we didnt have a real HC save our first rounder

[Typ0]

If you took away JPs worst two fumbles...and his three worst interceptions...Dick Jauron would still be flipping burgers at wendy's.

[MikeInRoch]

JP's numbers in his 7-9 year

are much better then smiths numbers this year

look your hatred for JP is evident

i started this thread by stating the obvious smith with a proper HC all of a sudden a semi competent QB

JP didnt have the #2 defense playing for him in the 7-9 year we won because of him

smith the defense carried him for most of the games this season.

get over yourself DICK jauron ruined our first round qb

im not JP ball licking

im furious dickless jauron ruined our 1st round qb the difference is we didnt have a real HC save our first rounder

Numbers don't make a great QB. Good play does. JP very rarely had it.

[Typ0]

I disagree. JP had a good play here and there. He sure looked good when he looked good.

[BertSquirtgum]

Just Puke

[Bill Cody]

get over yourself DICK jauron ruined our first round qb

im not JP ball licking



Oh yes you are most certainly ball licking. That's what you do. So pray tell how did Jauron "ruin" JP? Did he brainwash him? Because normally if/when a former 1st round pick that has any ability at all gets cut loose some other team is quick to snap him up and give him a chance to show what he can do with a change of scenery, especially a QB in a QB starved league. That didn't happen with JP. Know why? Because it's not just virtually this entire board that thinks you're clueless it's the entire NFL and they are PAID to know whether a player deserves a 2nd chance. And when he was signed elsewhere he apparently didn't show enough in practice to tell coaches elsewhere that he was worthy of playing. Or did Jauron call around and blackball JP? You make no sense.

JP was an arrogant ***** in college and he came in here with the same attitude which is why the only guy on the team that gave a **** when he was benched was Lee Evans because JP could throw a nice fly pattern. JP couldn't back up the attitude because he is a) as dumb as a bag full of rocks and b) has absolutely zero pocket presence. Those two things cancelled out his good arm and good legs. If Bellechick or Bill Walsh was his coach they would've needed to perform a lobotomy on JP for him to succeed. Alex Smith is a smart kid which is why coaching him up is possible.

[Albany,n.y.]

JP's numbers in his 7-9 year

get over yourself DICK jauron ruined our first round qb

im not JP ball licking

im furious dickless jauron ruined our 1st round qb the difference is we didnt have a real HC save our first rounder

The facts don't back up your claims: 1st off, when Jauron got here JP was in his 3rd season. He had excellent coaching in Sam Wyche, a well respected QB coach and offensive mind. Mike Mularkey benched JP because the team saw how bad he was and complained to the coaches-while Jauron was in Detroit! Then JP was hot & cold in his 1 full season as a starter under Jauron. He outright sucked in late December when he faced decent defenses. Then JP came to camp in 2007 and outright sucked in camp & preseason. Then after starting the season poorly JP got injured. After the injury all JP did was play his way out of the league, culminating in his disaster at the Meadowlands in 2008. Now on his 4th team as a 3rd stringer, JP is a proven bust that no coach can "fix".
So, now that I've given your memory Refreshment 101, how can you possibly defend your stance that Jauron ruined a QB who he didn't even coach until the guy's 3rd season & counting the UFL, 4 other coaches haven't done anything to make this guy even a competent 2nd string QB?

[justasportsfan]

The facts don't back up your claims: 1st off, when Jauron got here JP was in his 3rd season. He had excellent coaching in Sam Wyche, a well respected QB coach and offensive mind. Mike Mularkey benched JP because the team saw how bad he was and complained to the coaches-while Jauron was in Detroit! Then JP was hot & cold in his 1 full season as a starter under Jauron. He outright sucked in late December when he faced decent defenses. Then JP came to camp in 2007 and outright sucked in camp & preseason. Then after starting the season poorly JP got injured. After the injury all JP did was play his way out of the league, culminating in his disaster at the Meadowlands in 2008. Now on his 4th team as a 3rd stringer, JP is a proven bust that no coach can "fix".
So, now that I've given your memory Refreshment 101, how can you possibly defend your stance that Jauron ruined a QB who he didn't even coach until the guy's 3rd season & counting the UFL, 4 other coaches haven't done anything to make this guy even a competent 2nd string QB?

Jauron was an offensive idiot. Look at his history as a HC. Other than 1 season, his offenses sucked. He was a qb killer. Even if you don't use JP since he's had time with Mularkey and co. , Dick singlehandedly ruined another qb,Trent Edwards.

[Bill Cody]

Jauron was an offensive idiot. Look at his history as a HC. Other than 1 season, his offenses sucked. He was a qb killer. Even if you don't use JP since he's had time with Mularkey and co. , Dick singlehandedly ruined another qb,Trent Edwards.

oh please stop. Edwards lost his nerve, simple as that. It is amazing the lengths people will go on this board to transfer responsibility from players.

[Albany,n.y.]

Jauron was an offensive idiot. Look at his history as a HC. Other than 1 season, his offenses sucked. He was a qb killer. Even if you don't use JP since he's had time with Mularkey and co. , Dick singlehandedly ruined another qb,Trent Edwards.
Did Dick Jauron slam Trent Edwards head into the ground in Arizona? Did Dick Jauron sit on Edwards' shoulder like one of those little devils and say "Trent-check down"?

If anything all you people who accuse this Bills coach or that Bills coach of ruining this QB or that QB should look at Alex Smith and realize that while a coach can handcuff a QB & an offense, no coach can ruin a QB to the point that he can be driven out of the league like Edwards & Losman were after being in Buffalo and find no coach who can fix him.

The problem isn't bad Bills coaches-it's bad Bills scouting that brought these losers in in the 1st place. If JP was half the player the scouts thought he was, Mularkey might still be here, and if Edwards was half the player management thought he was, Jauron would still be here. Bad QBs are coach killers, not the other way around.

[justasportsfan]

oh please stop. Edwards lost his nerve, simple as that. It is amazing the lengths people will go on this board to transfer responsibility from players.
In Trents 1st year under SHonert he took chances and threw deep.

THen Dick fired Shonert , Turk said Dick wanted a pop warner offense.

When Van Pelt took over the offense when Dick was fired, we started taking chances and throwing deep again. Granted that it was Fitz they prefered, Trent by that time had already bought into Dicks play not to lose philosophy. He was already ruined by this time.

Based on what Shonert stated and AVP changing things up when Dick was fired tells me Dick wanted his OC's to play not to lose .

Even when the bears went 13-3 when Dick was the qb, their offense was ranked 26th.

It's no coincidence that NO qb has ever been top 10 when Dick was the HC.

[justasportsfan]

Did Dick Jauron slam Trent Edwards head into the ground in Arizona? Did Dick Jauron sit on Edwards' shoulder like one of those little devils and say "Trent-check down"?

If anything all you people who accuse this Bills coach or that Bills coach of ruining this QB or that QB should look at Alex Smith and realize that while a coach can handcuff a QB & an offense, no coach can ruin a QB to the point that he can be driven out of the league like Edwards & Losman were after being in Buffalo and find no coach who can fix him.

The problem isn't bad Bills coaches-it's bad Bills scouting that brought these losers in in the 1st place. If JP was half the player the scouts thought he was, Mularkey might still be here, and if Edwards was half the player management thought he was, Jauron would still be here. Bad QBs are coach killers, not the other way around.


I'm not saying JP had what it takes to be a qb but you cant expect anyone especially a qb like JP who wasn't much of a qb to begin with coming out of Tulane to flourish with 3 different OC's in 3 years from when he was drafted. Again, it's not about JP.

Did the hit to Trent cause him to fail? Maybe, but it's interesting that when he came back and played so well that he beat the Chargers the next week.

Like I told SELL Local Ralph, it's no coincidence that no qb was top in the league when Dick was the HC. He has a hsitory of having bottom of the league offenses. He would have ruined Peyton by telling him to dink and dunk.

[justasportsfan]

"He wants a 'Pop Warner' offense," Schonert said in a phone interview with WIVB. "He limited me in formations, and limited me in plays. He's been on my back all offseason."

"He [Jauron] told me the offense wasn't simple enough for him," Schonert said. "We had too many formations, too many plays. I didn't simplify it to his liking."




He may be sourgraping but the fact that even Van Plet changed things up and became aggressive once Dick was fired means there was some truth in what Shonert said.

It was because of DIck's play not to lose philosophy that TO had his worst season EVER. TO played his best games as a bill when Dick was fired.

[better days]

Did Dick Jauron slam Trent Edwards head into the ground in Arizona? Did Dick Jauron sit on Edwards' shoulder like one of those little devils and say "Trent-check down"?

If anything all you people who accuse this Bills coach or that Bills coach of ruining this QB or that QB should look at Alex Smith and realize that while a coach can handcuff a QB & an offense, no coach can ruin a QB to the point that he can be driven out of the league like Edwards & Losman were after being in Buffalo and find no coach who can fix him.

The problem isn't bad Bills coaches-it's bad Bills scouting that brought these losers in in the 1st place. If JP was half the player the scouts thought he was, Mularkey might still be here, and if Edwards was half the player management thought he was, Jauron would still be here. Bad QBs are coach killers, not the other way around.

I am so sick of Edwards getting hit as an EXCUSE for his poor play after that. The FACT is he probably had his BEST game the first game he played AFTER that hit. The FACT is other teams figured out the Bills offense & Trents weaknesses after getting some film on him.

[justasportsfan]

The problem isn't bad Bills coaches-it's bad Bills scouting that brought these losers in in the 1st place. If JP was half the player the scouts thought he was, Mularkey might still be here, and if Edwards was half the player management thought he was, Jauron would still be here. Bad QBs are coach killers, not the other way around.


What are you talking about? Dick wanted Trent. Dick liked Trent because Trent was a better dink and dunk qb. Trent was benched once AVP took over because Trent was not the same qb he was when he first started. He had bought into Dicks dink and dunk system.

[better days]

If anything all you people who accuse this Bills coach or that Bills coach of ruining this QB or that QB should look at Alex Smith and realize that while a coach can handcuff a QB & an offense, no coach can ruin a QB to the point that he can be driven out of the league like Edwards & Losman were after being in Buffalo and find no coach who can fix him.

The problem isn't bad Bills coaches-it's bad Bills scouting that brought these losers in in the 1st place. If JP was half the player the scouts thought he was, Mularkey might still be here, and if Edwards was half the player management thought he was, Jauron would still be here. Bad QBs are coach killers, not the other way around.

Smith is just lucky that the new HC of the 49ers had faith in him. If not he would have been cut & not likely to get another shot at a starting job. As it turned out, Smith was put in a system that suited his strengths & coached up.

As far as Mularkey, his Offense in Atlanta could not put up a single point with Matt Ryan at QB against the Giants, so much for his Coaching ability.

[Bill Cody]

Even when the bears went 13-3 when Dick was the qb, their offense was ranked 26th.

It's no coincidence that NO qb has ever been top 10 when Dick was the HC.

This is a joke right? The QB for the Bears 13-3 season was Jim ****ing Miller. Tell me what coach is the NFL would have made him a top 10 QB? You are delusional. Jim Caldwell was a genius with Peyton Manning under center, a fired moron with assorted flotsam and jetsam under center. Coaches don't make QB's nearly as much as QB's make coaches. Coaching matters don't get me wrong but you can't fix ugly. Get this through your head. JP was a terrible QB. Trent Edwards was a terrible QB.

JP could not read a defense, could not audible, had no pocket presence, none of which had one thing to do with Dick Jauron, my God. Edwards started hearing footsteps which is death for a QB, again not about Jauron. The whole league saw the film of both guys and yawned when they became available. Unless you think Jauron cast some kind of spell you are just grasping at straws.

[justasportsfan]

This is a joke right? The QB for the Bears 13-3 season was Jim ****ing Miller. Tell me what coach is the NFL would have made him a top 10 QB? You are delusional. Jim Caldwell was a genius with Peyton Manning under center, a fired moron with assorted flotsam and jetsam under center. Coaches don't make QB's nearly as much as QB's make coaches. Coaching matters don't get me wrong but you can't fix ugly. Get this through your head. JP was a terrible QB. Trent Edwards was a terrible QB.

JP could not read a defense, could not audible, had no pocket presence, none of which had one thing to do with Dick Jauron, my God. Edwards started hearing footsteps which is death for a QB, again not about Jauron. The whole league saw the film of both guys and yawned when they became available. Unless you think Jauron cast some kind of spell you are just grasping at straws.
Who handpicked his qb's? Dick. Dick had the power to pick his personel both in Chicago and buffalo.

It is a fact that Dick wanted JP to stay in the pocket instead of using his strengths. Trent was not a horrible qb early on. It wasn't until Dick FORCED his OC's to make the QB's play it safe. Dick would have forced Tebow to stay in the pocket. Dick was clueless offensively and didn't know how to develop qb's.

Dick picks qb's based on who can play not to lose. If a GM gave Dick a Peyton Manning, he would force that qb to dink and dunk and to play it safe.

[acehole]

Well ok.

But....

The 49's did it right with building a world class defense and running game with multiple weapons and an offense suited to his skill set.

If alex would have come here he would be on raider 3rd string by now.




alex smith watching him today tells more then ever

we ****ed up real bad with JP his 7-9 he played qb much better then alex smith did this year

coaching is everything!!!!!

yes u need players but coaching is number 1

instead of truly committing to JP we wate a 3rd on trent useless and so on and so on

ty DICKLESS JAURON

added in after this was not intended to be a bring back JP thread or anything like that its just to state the obvious that we made a very bad hire for our first round qb when hiring jauron and it should been someone hired who at least wanted to work with JP just like san fran did for smith finally

[Bill Cody]

Who handpicked his qb's? Dick. Dick had the power to pick his personel both in Chicago and buffalo.

It is a fact that Dick wanted JP to stay in the pocket instead of using his strengths. Trent was not a horrible qb early on. It wasn't until Dick FORCED his OC's to make the QB's play it safe. Dick would have forced Tebow to stay in the pocket. Dick was clueless offensively and didn't know how to develop qb's.

Dick picks qb's based on who can play not to lose. If a GM gave Dick a Peyton Manning, he would force that qb to dink and dunk and to play it safe.

If a GM gave Dick a Peyton Manning, Manning would still be great. And if you gave Bill Bellichick JP and Trent, they would still suck. The coaching might have changed things by degrees but Jauron didn't kill talent which is what you're saying. If so then why did the whole league not think "I can make something of those guys". Because there was a league wide consensus: they suck. What a silly discussion.

[better days]

If a GM gave Dick a Peyton Manning, Manning would still be great. And if you gave Bill Bellichick JP and Trent, they would still suck. The coaching might have changed things by degrees but Jauron didn't kill talent which is what you're saying. If so then why did the whole league not think "I can make something of those guys". Because there was a league wide consensus: they suck. What a silly discussion.

I would bet Joe Montana would not have had any success in the Oakland Raider Offense. QBs need to be in a system that suits their strengths & they also need good coaching.

I'm not saying JP or Trent could have been GOOD QBs, but they both could have been better than they were in the right system with good coaching.

[Bill Cody]

I would bet Joe Montana would not have had any success in the Oakland Raider Offense. QBs need to be in a system that suits their strengths & they also need good coaching.

I'm not saying JP or Trent could have been GOOD QBs, but they both could have been better than they were in the right system with good coaching.

If you read what I said I don't disagree with this, to a degree. But there are a ton of smart coaches and GM's in the league, a lot smarter than our motley crew on this board. What makes anyone think they didn't see JP and Trent play and form their own opinions? And if so why do they universally disagree with the thread premise? Because the fact is they do.

[justasportsfan]

If a GM gave Dick a Peyton Manning, Manning would still be great. And if you gave Bill Bellichick JP and Trent, they would still suck. The coaching might have changed things by degrees but Jauron didn't kill talent which is what you're saying. If so then why did the whole league not think "I can make something of those guys". Because there was a league wide consensus: they suck. What a silly discussion.


HIs Philosophy of playing not to lose will stunt any qb's growth . Qb's won't play better than they are especially since he doesn't know how to play to their strengths. I doubt a Micheal Vick would do anything when Dick orders his OC's to make Vick stay in the pocket. I doubt any wr would be successful either when Dick tells them to run short conservative routes. Ask TO. Dicks offensive philosophy blows. The facts are there.

If your scheme prevents you from doing what you do best , I don't care if you're Peyton. You wont do much especially if the defenses know what you're up to. Under Jauron our offense was predictable. Players that played against us spoke out back then that they knew what was coming before we even took a snap.

[trapezeus]

i didn't really read the entire thread, but my thought on this is "had the bills played in a division as bad as the NFC west, we probably would have made the playoffs 2 or 3 times in the last 12 years."

Is alex smith that good now that harbaugh is there? probably not. they won an exciting game last week. that was fun for casual fans.

that one year JP was the 11th rated qb, had he played in a bad division, some of those close games could have gone the other way as they have for alex smith.

alex smith also watched the 49ers draft a good qb last year, and then fought like hell to not lose his job. when the same thing happened to jp, he crumbled and continued to make the same mistakes. So make of it what you will.

[justasportsfan]

I

I'm not saying JP or Trent could have been GOOD QBs, but they both could have been better than they were in the right system with good coaching.
this is what I'm trying to say too.