Scott Chandler May Be Difficult To Re-Sign

[BLeonard]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/1/17/2713166/scott-chandler-bills-craig-stevens-free-agency



As an early indication that Nix knew what he was talking about, the Tennessee Titans signed a free agent tight end of their own - Craig Stevens - to a four-year, $15 million contract last Friday. Stevens, a 2008 third-round pick out of California, is known for his blocking, and has caught just 21 passes in his four-year career. In 2011, he caught nine passes for 166 yards and a touchdown.

Chandler is known more for his receiving than his blocking; he's coming off a break-out season of sorts in which he caught 38 passes for 389 yards and six touchdowns. Still, it's fair to say that Chandler is in roughly the same free agent tier as Stevens, though his numbers are an obvious advantage in terms of establishing an asking price.


-Bill

[Goobylal]

There are better FA TE's out there. If they're looking at ~$4M/year for him, better to pay a better one a little more.

[YardRat]

I could see this front office ponying up 4mil per for Chandler, in all honesty.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

I could see this front office ponying up 4mil per for Chandler, in all honesty.

I think thats a reasonable price for the first TE we've seen make an impact in a long time

[JCBills]

There are a few good and some decent TEs possibly available.

Jermichael Finley and Fred Davis are at the top of the heap, with Chandler not too far behing. Finley would be the most expensive of the bunch, but Davis and Chandler may command similar numbers. After that, John Carlson (a gamble, but if he's back, he is a complete TE) and Martellus Bennett are decent options. Carlson at 100% is probably almost as good as any of them.

[The Jokeman]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/1/17/2713166/scott-chandler-bills-craig-stevens-free-agency



-Bill
Chandler's a solid depth TE who's TD total is helped in that he's a great red zone target. I can't see any team overspending to get him. Tony Scheffler, a backup in Detroit, put up similar numbers. So I'd keep him but explore improving the position and non better than Jermichael Finley. I am advocating we sign, that he is a Calvin Johnsonesque receive in he has size and seems to run through people. I'd love to see us get him yet to me he's the cream of the crop of UFA TEs. Yet that's unlikely so the best plan would be franchise Stevie, re-sign Chandler and find an #2 WR to play opposite Stevie. I brought up Legedu Naanee in another thread as he seems like a realistic option if spend the kind of money it take to keep Stevie and Chandler and bring another guy in.

That Fred Davis might be better than Finley but his late season suspension might scare teams off. Chandler might rank 3rd behind them as I haven't really looked at any lists. Yet JCBills brought up Carlson who's struggled at reproducing past success but is a solid guy who might be worth looking at if lose out on Chandler. Marellus Bennett is the type the Bills usually look at though as he's a guy they can overspend on but go on and on about unrealized potential because he was on the bench etc. but in the end proves he's nothing more than a bench guy just like Larry Tripplett, Spencer Johnson, Craig Nall etc.

[hemi13]

I think thats a reasonable price for the first TE we've seen make an impact in a long time


I agree

[better days]

If the Bills can keep Chandler at the right price GREAT, but if he wants money elite TEs make, the Bills might as well sign an elite TE instead or draft a guy out of College with the potential to be better than Chandler in the 3rd or 4th rnd & he will be MUCH cheaper.

[DBrown77]

Finley drops everything! Did you know he was tweeting last year on the beach during a Packer playoff game?

[The Jokeman]

Finley drops everything! Did you know he was tweeting last year on the beach during a Packer playoff game?
Good he'll draw some attention from Stevie's drops. In terms of the tweeting, I could care less he's a good/great player on the field, when he's off it I could care less what he's doing.

[DBrown77]

Good he'll draw some attention from Stevie's drops. In terms of the tweeting, I could care less he's a good/great player on the field, when he's off it I could care less what he's doing.
My point is that he is not a team player. If the Bills were in the playoffs and during a game a star player on IR was tweeting pics of him on the beach there would be a problem. His wife loves to tweet about how much the TE franchise tag is too. They are all about themselves ans $$. No thanks.

[The Jokeman]

My point is that he is not a team player. If the Bills were in the playoffs and during a game a star player on IR was tweeting pics of him on the beach there would be a problem. His wife loves to tweet about how much the TE franchise tag is too. They are all about themselves ans $$. No thanks.
yet he played on the team with the best NFL record, was he part of it? Hells yeah. I'm sick and tired of fans thinking that we can only have model citizens on our team and expect to win. Those early 90 Super Bowls were hardly the nice guys we like to glorify but we didn't seem to mind because we were winning, why should our standards change because we're losing?

[DBrown77]

He isn't even good enough to take a chance on IMO. Had a breakout year last year year then was horribly inconsistent this year.

[DBrown77]

Check that, breakout year was two years ago. He put up decent numbers this year but dropped a ton

[The Jokeman]

He isn't even good enough to take a chance on IMO. Had a breakout year last year year then was horribly inconsistent this year.
55 receptions compared to 38 receptions
767 yards compared to 389 yards
8 TDs compared to 6 TDs.

All of them were career highs despite his "inconsistancy". He's clearly an upgrade over Chandler inspite of all his drops.

[DBrown77]

And Aaron Rodgers vs Fitzpatrick.....big arm vs noodle arm.

[The Jokeman]

And Aaron Rodgers vs Fitzpatrick.....big arm vs noodle arm.
Fine if we re-sign Chandler than I want us to upgrade our 2nd WR.

[DBrown77]

Fine if we re-sign Chandler than I want us to upgrade our 2nd WR.
Agreed.

[bluerosekiller]

I believe they should keep Chandler in house & also look for a second TE of similar talent to compliment him.
The success that The Pats have had with two quality TEs should be something to emulate. And Chandler's shown that he & Fitz have a decent chemistry together, so why mess with success by letting him go only to have to go shopping for another TE of similar caliber? That makes no sense to me. Just pay the man what he's worth.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I believe they should keep Chandler in house & also look for a second TE of similar talent to compliment him.
The success that The Pats have had with two quality TEs should be something to emulate. And Chandler's shown that he & Fitz have a decent chemistry together, so why mess with success by letting him go only to have to go shopping for another TE of similar caliber? That makes no sense to me. Just pay the man what he's worth.

nelson is our hybrid te, hes like hernandez...

[OpIv37]

This is another example of the Bills being good enough instead of good:
Fitz at QB
Stevie as our #1 WR
Pears as our RT
Chandler as our TE
Hairston/Bell at LT
Every single one of our LB's....

I know, I know- "we can't have superstars at every position." But many of you are so obsessed with re-signing our own guys because we let good players walk in the past that you don't seem to understand that many of our "good" players are simply good enough to get by. We can't say "no one has superstars at every position" to defend the mediocrity at every single position on the field.

At some point, we have to concentrate more on getting better and less on the crap we currently have.

Chandler really isn't that bad, but he's not a star either. When are we going to have some stars? Jackson and Kyle Williams can't do it all by themselves.

[jcdavey]

chargers will take him back, lol

[Ickybaluky]

Finley drops everything! Did you know he was tweeting last year on the beach during a Packer playoff game?

He was on IR last year after the first month of the season. He may have been tweeting, but I doubt it was from the bench.

Finley is one of the most talented players you will find at TE, much more dynamic than Chandler. Chandler is a short area guy only, he can't split the seam like Finley because he doesn't run well enough. You can see that in their YPA numbers, where Chandler is at 10 and Finley is at 14.

It is probably a moot point, though. Green Bay is probably going to franchise Finley if they can't re-sign him.

[DBrown77]

He was on IR last year after the first month of the season. He may have been tweeting, but I doubt it was from the bench.

Finley is one of the most talented players you will find at TE, much more dynamic than Chandler. Chandler is a short area guy only, he can't split the seam like Finley because he doesn't run well enough. You can see that in their YPA numbers, where Chandler is at 10 and Finley is at 14.

It is probably a moot point, though. Green Bay is probably going to franchise Finley if they can't re-sign him.

He was tweeting from a beach in Mexico, not the bench.

[DBrown77]

nelson is our hybrid te, hes like hernandez... except Hernandez can run after the catch and Nelson cant break a tackle from my 2 year old son.

[Mahdi]

I could see this front office ponying up 4mil per for Chandler, in all honesty.
They better not because that is a waste of money. Chandler is no where near an elite TE, in fact I don't even put him in the second tier.

Elite -- Gronkowski, Graham, Witten, Gates, Gonzalez

Second level - Finley (potential elite), Davis (potential elite), Winslow, Hernandez, Keller, Fred Davis, Greg Olsen, Owen Daniels, Gresham, Clark, Pettigrew

Third level - Ed Dickson, Shiancoe, M. Lewis, Zack Miller, Moeaki, Celek, Scheffler, Jared Cook (potential tier 2), Shockey, Watson, Cooley

Fourth level - Joel Dreesen, Fasano, Chandler, Pitta, Carlson, Delanie Walker, Boss, Ballard, Kellen Davis, Evan Moore, Beckum (potential tier 2), Rudolph (potential elite)

From that list I count AT LEAST 28 TEs that are better than Chandler. He has no business asking for 4 mil per. We need to go after Finley who would represent a huge redzone target not to mention his ability to match up against anyone down the field.

[better days]

They better not because that is a waste of money. Chandler is no where near an elite TE, in fact I don't even put him in the second tier.

Elite -- Gronkowski, Graham, Witten, Gates, Gonzalez

Second level - Finley (potential elite), Davis (potential elite), Winslow, Hernandez, Keller, Fred Davis, Greg Olsen, Owen Daniels, Gresham, Clark, Pettigrew

Third level - Ed Dickson, Shiancoe, M. Lewis, Zack Miller, Moeaki, Celek, Scheffler, Jared Cook (potential tier 2), Shockey, Watson, Cooley

Fourth level - Joel Dreesen, Fasano, Chandler, Pitta, Carlson, Delanie Walker, Boss, Ballard, Kellen Davis, Evan Moore, Beckum (potential tier 2), Rudolph (potential elite)

From that list I count AT LEAST 28 TEs that are better than Chandler. He has no business asking for 4 mil per. We need to go after Finley who would represent a huge redzone target not to mention his ability to match up against anyone down the field.

I disagree about Carlson, when healthy he is second level.

[mysticsoto]

This is another example of the Bills being good enough instead of good:
Fitz at QB
Stevie as our #1 WR
Pears as our RT
Chandler as our TE
Hairston/Bell at LT
Every single one of our LB's....

I know, I know- "we can't have superstars at every position." But many of you are so obsessed with re-signing our own guys because we let good players walk in the past that you don't seem to understand that many of our "good" players are simply good enough to get by. We can't say "no one has superstars at every position" to defend the mediocrity at every single position on the field.

At some point, we have to concentrate more on getting better and less on the crap we currently have.

Chandler really isn't that bad, but he's not a star either. When are we going to have some stars? Jackson and Kyle Williams can't do it all by themselves.

C'mon Op, didn't we go through this already? We don't need more holes (unless he's asking for crazy $$$).

Right now the "elite" players we need are at DE - we need 2!!! And maybe a solid CB. After that, we need solid depth on our Oline and then, realistically, all we can expect to draft in the lower rounds are raw prospects that we hope develop.

[OpIv37]

C'mon Op, didn't we go through this already? We don't need more holes (unless he's asking for crazy $$$).

Right now the "elite" players we need are at DE - we need 2!!! And maybe a solid CB. After that, we need solid depth on our Oline and then, realistically, all we can expect to draft in the lower rounds are raw prospects that we hope develop.

Yes, we did go through this already. Pears, Johnson, Chandler, Fitz- they're holes. They're just not as glaring as some of the other holes on this team. Re-signing these guys is sustaining mediocrity.

[mysticsoto]

Yes, we did go through this already. Pears, Johnson, Chandler, Fitz- they're holes. They're just not as glaring as some of the other holes on this team. Re-signing these guys is sustaining mediocrity.

When you don't have a plan (which you've admitted you do not) and make another hole, you can lower yourself from mediocrity to abysmal.

Upgrade our pass rush and make it elite, and this team will go somewhere - even with our "sustaining mediocrity" at other positions...

[OpIv37]

When you don't have a plan (which you've admitted you do not) and make another hole, you can lower yourself from mediocrity to abysmal.

Upgrade our pass rush and make it elite, and this team will go somewhere - even with our "sustaining mediocrity" at other positions...

It's not about me having a plan.

It's about Nix and Gailey adding talent to this roster. You keep trying to put this back on me while defending the status quo. We've seen first-hand that the status quo isn't good enough.

Clearly, the pass rush is a far greater need than these other positions, as we don't even have guys who are good enough as OLB's. But we will most likely need to win 11 games to make the playoffs. Adding a pass rush to this cluster**** of mediocrity isn't going to buy us 6 wins on its' own.

[Mahdi]

I disagree about Carlson, when healthy he is second level.
Yeah he has that potential. But I don't know if he can be second level. Third for sure.

[mysticsoto]

It's not about me having a plan.

It's about Nix and Gailey adding talent to this roster. You keep trying to put this back on me while defending the status quo. We've seen first-hand that the status quo isn't good enough.

Clearly, the pass rush is a far greater need than these other positions, as we don't even have guys who are good enough as OLB's. But we will most likely need to win 11 games to make the playoffs. Adding a pass rush to this cluster**** of mediocrity isn't going to buy us 6 wins on its' own.

Uggghhh...that depends on the level of pass rush we develop. There were like 2 or 3 games that we barely lost, so a pass rush would have likely gotten us those games by default.

Please don't tell me that two elite DEs alongside Kyle Williams and Dareus is not going to improve the team greatly. If you believe that, you're not living in reality and not understanding what a *REAL* pass rush can do to a game!!!

The Giants, with a better pass rush, was able to take out an overall better team in GB! It's a huge deal and makes a heckuva difference!

[OpIv37]

Uggghhh...that depends on the level of pass rush we develop. There were like 2 or 3 games that we barely lost, so a pass rush would have likely gotten us those games by default.

Please don't tell me that two elite DEs alongside Kyle Williams and Dareus is not going to improve the team greatly. If you believe that, you're not living in reality and not understanding what a *REAL* pass rush can do to a game!!!

The Giants, with a better pass rush, was able to take out an overall better team in GB! It's a huge deal and makes a heckuva difference!

3 wins gets us halfway there.

We still need more talent on the offensive side of the ball to win. Re-signing guys like Pears and Chandler comes at the opportunity cost of upgrading that position. We know Ralph isn't going to pay for someone else at those positions, especially if he has to pay for a pass rush tool.

Realistically, I know we can't let Fitz, Stevie, Pears, Chandler, Hairston and Bell ALL walk. But where does it end? At what point are they going to say "we can live with these 3 or 4 guys, but I think we can do better than THIS guy"? There has to be a middle ground if there is going to be improvement.

[Mahdi]

This is another example of the Bills being good enough instead of good:
Fitz at QB
Stevie as our #1 WR
Pears as our RT
Chandler as our TE
Hairston/Bell at LT
Every single one of our LB's....

I know, I know- "we can't have superstars at every position." But many of you are so obsessed with re-signing our own guys because we let good players walk in the past that you don't seem to understand that many of our "good" players are simply good enough to get by. We can't say "no one has superstars at every position" to defend the mediocrity at every single position on the field.

At some point, we have to concentrate more on getting better and less on the crap we currently have.

Chandler really isn't that bad, but he's not a star either. When are we going to have some stars? Jackson and Kyle Williams can't do it all by themselves.
I agree with some of these points but definitely not with Pears and Stevie.

Pears had a great year. He's a big physical OT and it really doesn't get much better at RT in the NFL. Not saying he is the best RT in the NFL, but definitely highly ranked. Great pass protector and did very well in the run game.

Stevie is a #1 he just needs some help on the other side. Nelson is a slot guy and we have nothing decent on the opposite side. Stevie is one of the best route runners in the NFL and his numbers over the last two seasons are among the best. A couple timely drops doesn't change that. You also have to factor in that Fitz was a disaster the last few weeks of the year with inaccuracy and often neglected to throw to Stevie. If Fitz kept up the early season pace Stevie might have had 100 catches.

I think Stevie needs a compliment WR on the other side like a Colston or a Finley in the middle of the field to draw the safety. We don't need a speed guy as others have suggested because throwing the deep ball is not Fitz's game.

To win 6 more games we need: Another big time receiving threat at WR or TE, a dominant pass rusher (Avril, Williams), a pass rush specialist (Westerman, Ahmad Brooks type that wont cost a ton), big DT/NT (Healthy Troup, FA or draft).

So if we keep Chandler we need Colston. If we let Chandler go and get Finley we can settle on a Malcolm Floyd or draft a big receiver.

[mysticsoto]

3 wins gets us halfway there.

We still need more talent on the offensive side of the ball to win. Re-signing guys like Pears and Chandler comes at the opportunity cost of upgrading that position. We know Ralph isn't going to pay for someone else at those positions, especially if he has to pay for a pass rush tool.

Realistically, I know we can't let Fitz, Stevie, Pears, Chandler, Hairston and Bell ALL walk. But where does it end? At what point are they going to say "we can live with these 3 or 4 guys, but I think we can do better than THIS guy"? There has to be a middle ground if there is going to be improvement.
Fitz played great the 1st half of the season. We need to correct whatever caused him to revert - b'cse quite frankly, we are just not going to be able to get an elite QB AND be able to upgrade our DEs to elite AND cover every freakin' hole we have. So we have to be realistic and see where we can get the most bang for the buck. Stevie held his own and did well against Revis. That tells me he is good and just needs to let go of the stupid penalties/endzone shows. Pears played extremely well on the Oline and was durable - something we've been lacking. Chandler is our best TE in a long time. Hairston played extremely well for a rookie. Bell could be very decent if he could just stay healthy.

That tells me that our pass rush is the most pressing need to upgrade followed by LBs that fit what scheme we will use (sounds like they have some decisions to make but 4-3 will likely be the most common) a decent CB to help out the young batch we got last year. We need a 2nd WR that can compliment Stevie better and some real Oline depth that can play when our starters go down and not miss a beat.

Those are our pressing needs. Your constant need to throw away what you term as mediocre, but then not have an adequate replacement strategy is the kind of arm-chairing GM we don't need. If we already have huge holes that need to be filled, you don't go around making more holes - which you constantly suggest with no plan.

You fill the most pressing holes 1st and then you upgrade positions as possible.

[OpIv37]

Fitz played great the 1st half of the season. We need to correct whatever caused him to revert - b'cse quite frankly, we are just not going to be able to get an elite QB AND be able to upgrade our DEs to elite AND cover every freakin' hole we have. So we have to be realistic and see where we can get the most bang for the buck. Stevie held his own and did well against Revis. That tells me he is good and just needs to let the stupid penalties/endzone shows. Pears played extremely well on the Oline and was durable - something we've been lacking. Chandler is our best TE in a long time. Hairston played extremely well for a rookie. Bell could be very decent if he could just stay healthy.

That tells me that our pass rush is the most pressing need to upgrade followed by LBs that fit what scheme we will use (sounds like they have some decisions to make but 4-3 will likely be the most common) a decent CB to help out the young batch we got last year. We need a 2nd WR that can compliment Stevie better and some real Oline depth that can play when our starters go down and not miss a beat.

Those are our pressing needs. Your constant need to throw away what you term as mediocre, but then not have an adequate replacement strategy is the kind of arm-chairing GM we don't need. If we already have huge holes that need to be filled, you don't go around making more holes - which you constantly suggest with no plan.

You fill the most pressing holes 1st and then you upgrade positions as possible.

Take a look at your first paragraph. Every compliment you gave to those players came with a qualifier. Hence, the reason I say they're not good- they're good enough. If these guys were so good, we wouldn't have finished 5-11 with a 7 game losing streak.

Yes, there are more pressing needs- but that doesn't mean those positions aren't needs.

And again, you keep putting this back on me. You should be putting this on Nix and Gailey. I follow the Bills and Notre Dame intensely and just barely keep tabs on the rest of the NFL and college football.

I have the knowledge to say that the guys we have can't get the job done because I've seen it with my own two eyes. I don't have the time or knowledge to know who else is out there or what our upgrade strategy. Nix and Gaily get paid millions to figure that out, but instead all they do is re-sign the same guys who couldn't get the job done while you defend them.

[mysticsoto]

Take a look at your first paragraph. Every compliment you gave to those players came with a qualifier. Hence, the reason I say they're not good- they're good enough. If these guys were so good, we wouldn't have finished 5-11 with a 7 game losing streak.

Yes, there are more pressing needs- but that doesn't mean those positions aren't needs.

And again, you keep putting this back on me. You should be putting this on Nix and Gailey. I follow the Bills and Notre Dame intensely and just barely keep tabs on the rest of the NFL and college football.

I have the knowledge to say that the guys we have can't get the job done because I've seen it with my own two eyes. I don't have the time or knowledge to know who else is out there or what our upgrade strategy. Nix and Gaily get paid millions to figure that out, but instead all they do is re-sign the same guys who couldn't get the job done while you defend them.

Incorrect. Nix/Gailey said they would improve the team via the draft and they did. The team is better than last year, and this, despite all our injuries this year.

I put it on you b'cse you are being completely unrealistic in your comments. You can't make holes everywhere and expect it to not have it be detrimental to the team next year. You realistically, have only a few key positions that will truly get upgraded so you have to pick your spots.

If we did things your way, half the team would be gone, but then you'd have no real viable replacements and would be lost trying to fill the holes you yourself created. Your record and reputation would be worse than Snyders'.

[better days]

3 wins gets us halfway there.

We still need more talent on the offensive side of the ball to win. Re-signing guys like Pears and Chandler comes at the opportunity cost of upgrading that position. We know Ralph isn't going to pay for someone else at those positions, especially if he has to pay for a pass rush tool.

Realistically, I know we can't let Fitz, Stevie, Pears, Chandler, Hairston and Bell ALL walk. But where does it end? At what point are they going to say "we can live with these 3 or 4 guys, but I think we can do better than THIS guy"? There has to be a middle ground if there is going to be improvement.

Well, I would rather keep Chandler for the right price & add another GOOD TE & WR to the mix myself.

[OpIv37]

Incorrect. Nix/Gailey said they would improve the team via the draft and they did. The team is better than last year, and this, despite all our injuries this year.

I put it on you b'cse you are being completely unrealistic in your comments. You can't make holes everywhere and expect it to not have it be detrimental to the team next year. You realistically, have only a few key positions that will truly get upgraded so you have to pick your spots.

If we did things your way, half the team would be gone, but then you'd have no real viable replacements and would be lost trying to fill the holes you yourself created. Your record and reputation would be worse than Snyders'.

It depends on what "realistic" is referring to. Is it realistic to upgrade all those players? no, and I acknowledged that.

The problem is this: You accuse me of having no viable replacements, which may or may not be true, but it ignores the real issue that the guys we have AREN'T viable as it is. You try to make excuses and compliment them with qualifiers attached to the compliments, but they have proven that they can't get the job done.

It doesn't matter if there are or aren't viable replacements. It doesn't matter if these guys aren't upgraded because there are no upgrades or because the Bills simply won't spend the money or because players don't want to come here or whatever. We need more talent, period.

And seriously, this is your idea of "improvement" via the draft? This is exactly what I mean when I say Bills fans have accepted mediocrity.

You want to be realistic? Then accept the reality that we aren't going to win with these guys because it just isn't going to happen.

[OpIv37]

Well, I would rather keep Chandler for the right price & add another GOOD TE & WR to the mix myself.

Do you HONESTLY think Ralph is going to pay Stevie and Chandler and then add another good TE and WR? We might be able to get by in that scenario, but it isn't going to happen.

[better days]

Do you HONESTLY think Ralph is going to pay Stevie and Chandler and then add another good TE and WR? We might be able to get by in that scenario, but it isn't going to happen.

Well, maybe not in FA, but possibly in the draft. I could see the Bills pick up one LB or DE in FA. Nix has said they will sign some good FAs this year.

[mysticsoto]

It depends on what "realistic" is referring to. Is it realistic to upgrade all those players? no, and I acknowledged that.

The problem is this: You accuse me of having no viable replacements, which may or may not be true, but it ignores the real issue that the guys we have AREN'T viable as it is. You try to make excuses and compliment them with qualifiers attached to the compliments, but they have proven that they can't get the job done.

It doesn't matter if there are or aren't viable replacements. It doesn't matter if these guys aren't upgraded because there are no upgrades or because the Bills simply won't spend the money or because players don't want to come here or whatever. We need more talent, period.

And seriously, this is your idea of "improvement" via the draft? This is exactly what I mean when I say Bills fans have accepted mediocrity.

You want to be realistic? Then accept the reality that we aren't going to win with these guys because it just isn't going to happen.

I never said anything about the draft being the only way to improve. I said that they HAVE improved the team from last year.

And I do not agree that if we got a real pass rush and a few key players here and there, that we could not improve tremendously. Quite frankly, I think we are on the cusp of improvement and I think if we could remain relatively injury free and get a pass rush, it would show. Most of our injuries were season ending injuries. Look at what happened to the Giants. They had injuries, were a mediocre team w/their backups, but their injuries weren't season ending and they began getting their starters back at the end of the season. Now look at them.

I think a real pass rush will do wonders for this team. We have a ballhawking secondary that would capitalize much more and Fitz/Stevie/FJ/Spiller would be more than adequate to put some numbers up on offense and get us wins more often than not.

[JCBills]

He was on IR last year after the first month of the season. He may have been tweeting, but I doubt it was from the bench.

Finley is one of the most talented players you will find at TE, much more dynamic than Chandler. Chandler is a short area guy only, he can't split the seam like Finley because he doesn't run well enough. You can see that in their YPA numbers, where Chandler is at 10 and Finley is at 14.

It is probably a moot point, though. Green Bay is probably going to franchise Finley if they can't re-sign him.

Well clearly Finley is faster and a better runner, but GB's wideouts stretch the field and open up things underneath allowing YAC. Buffalo can't say the same.

[justasportsfan]

Let him test the market and see what the market states. I'm okay with 4 million a year if there is no one else to be had at 4 million thats better. He had good numbers in his FIRST year with a new team. It can only get better especially if we had a better wr opposite Stevie.

Although Chandler isn't a vertical weapon he is nevertheless a weapon in the redzone. Once again, unless there is a better prospect out there at 4 milion, I am against subtracting weapons for Fitz.

[imbondz]

just get us the best players at every position and be done with it. it's not that hard.

[OpIv37]

just get us the best players at every position and be done with it. it's not that hard.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

It ALWAYS turns into this.

Of course we're not going to have the best players at every position, but we have to do better than what we have. All I see is a scramble to retain the guys we have even though most of them aren't good enough to win. At some point, we have to stop and say "maybe we should try to upgrade this position."

[MattyNH]

I like Chandler but his production is mid twenties for a TE in catches and yards. To Bills fans it seemed great but that is because we are used to something close to a goose egg! He caught 2 TD's after week 3, I think we need to remember that once teams realized he was a red zone target his red zone production went down.

Having said all that I was hoping to resign him and get another athletic large pass catching TE. Doubt those two items happen though.

[mysticsoto]

I like Chandler but his production is mid twenties for a TE in catches and yards. To Bills fans it seemed great but that is because we are used to something close to a goose egg! He caught 2 TD's after week 3, I think we need to remember that once teams realized he was a red zone target his red zone production went down.

Having said all that I was hoping to resign him and get another athletic large pass catching TE. Doubt those two items happen though.

My opinion is that his numbers (and that of everyone elses) went down b'cse Fitz's play went down in the 2nd half of the season - that and everyone realized that you can just play close to stop Fitz from his short range passing attack.

[justasportsfan]

My opinion is that his numbers (and that of everyone elses) went down b'cse Fitz's play went down in the 2nd half of the season - that and everyone realized that you can just play close to stop Fitz from his short range passing attack.
and this is why I would like to ADD a TE that can be a deeper threat than Chandler via the draft or replace him with one in FA if possible.

[mysticsoto]

and this is why I would like to ADD a TE that can be a deeper threat than Chandler via the draft or replace him with one in FA if possible.

If we can add one that can stretch the field, great. But I think it might be better/easier to add a #2 WR that can stretch the field and allow Chandler the underneath shots. There are only a few elite TEs that can stretch the field and I don't want to spend a 1st day draft pick on one. If we can get on in FA, I'd be fine with that.

[BillsFever21]

And seriously, this is your idea of "improvement" via the draft? This is exactly what I mean when I say Bills fans have accepted mediocrity.


I was getting ready to make the same point. I'm not wasting my time right now getting in on all the mediocre players we have any many other positions that downright awful but how anybody can consider this season an improvement or this team improved from the Jauron era is outrageous.

We were a continuous average 7 win team under Jauron. Gailey took over and we have won 10 games in two seasons with an 8 game losing streak in the first season and a 7 game losing streak at the end of the second season.

I don't really see how anybody can call that an improvement. We had a whole two more wins then last year and two of them are games us and other team will lose 90% of the time.

Outside of a lucky fast start our offense wasn't any better then last year and our defense was even worse then last year if that was possible. I guess the "great" proven draft we had contributed to one of the worse few defenses in the league.

I guess just because we won two more games that means we're on the right course and looking up though. That is definitely accepting mediocrity. Basically our season this year and last year just went in reverse. Big deal if we won a couple more games. Plus our schedule was fairly easy this year compared to last year.

This team isn't any better then the Jauron era. If anything we may be worse. Our offense is a little better then under Jauron and words can't describe how worse our defense is.

If a lot of people consider that an improvement and thinks our team is heading in the right directions then it doesn't take much to satisfy them after 12 years of losing. Even completely bombing out and losing 8 of our last 9 games and 7 in a row doesn't convince people. They still think we were improved from last season. I'm sorry but an improved team doesn't tank and lose 8 out of their last 9 games.

[justasportsfan]

If we can add one that can stretch the field, great. But I think it might be better/easier to add a #2 WR that can stretch the field and allow Chandler the underneath shots. There are only a few elite TEs that can stretch the field and I don't want to spend a 1st day draft pick on one. If we can get on in FA, I'd be fine with that.
that wr better be a big wr who can fight for Fitz's inacurate deep balls.

[OpIv37]

I was getting ready to make the same point. I'm not wasting my time right now getting in on all the mediocre players we have any many other positions that downright awful but how anybody can consider this season an improvement or this team improved from the Jauron era is outrageous.

We were a continuous average 7 win team under Jauron. Gailey took over and we have won 10 games in two seasons with an 8 game losing streak in the first season and a 7 game losing streak at the end of the second season.

I don't really see how anybody can call that an improvement. We had a whole two more wins then last year and two of them are games us and other team will lose 90% of the time.

Outside of a lucky fast start our offense wasn't any better then last year and our defense was even worse then last year if that was possible. I guess the "great" proven draft we had contributed to one of the worse few defenses in the league.

I guess just because we won two more games that means we're on the right course and looking up though. That is definitely accepting mediocrity. Basically our season this year and last year just went in reverse. Big deal if we won a couple more games. Plus our schedule was fairly easy this year compared to last year.

This team isn't any better then the Jauron era. If anything we may be worse. Our offense is a little better then under Jauron and words can't describe how worse our defense is.

If a lot of people consider that an improvement and thinks our team is heading in the right directions then it doesn't take much to satisfy them after 12 years of losing. Even completely bombing out and losing 8 of our last 9 games and 7 in a row doesn't convince people. They still think we were improved from last season. I'm sorry but an improved team doesn't tank and lose 8 out of their last 9 games.

but...but...but... we had injuries.

[better days]

but...but...but... we had injuries.

And the Bills also had far too many mediocre players when Nix was hired without question. Anyone that thinks it is possible to turn over almost an entire roster in only one or two years is deluding themselves.

The Bills played well before the injuries hit, that is a FACT. With the addition of more good players this offseason, I'm looking forward to next year myself.

I never felt that way while Jauron was in charge.

[JCBills]

And the Bills also had far too many mediocre players when Nix was hired without question. Anyone that thinks it is possible to turn over almost an entire roster in only one or two years is deluding themselves.

The Bills played well before the injuries hit, that is a FACT. With the addition of more good players this offseason, I'm looking forward to next year myself.

I never felt that way while Jauron was in charge.

True. Turnover has been very high, at least they've tried to bring in fresh blood.

[Mahdi]

but...but...but... we had injuries.
The injuries excuse is quite valid IMO. IF you want to criticize the FO for not having adequate backups in place to cover for them then you are entitled to that, but writing off the injuries as if they should not affect the continuity and ability to win is unrealistic.

1.Merriman going down was a massive loss because they literally had no back up plan and he was the source of stability at OLB and pass rush ability.

2. The interior of Levitre-Wood-Urbik was probably the best interior OL in the NFL in the first 7 weeks of the season. Losing Wood, shuffling off Levitre and Urbik to other positions was also massive blow.

3. Losing McGee hurt us because when healthy he is a very good, experienced CB who can tackle like a LB.

4. Maybe the biggest hit we took was losing KW. He was one of very few players we have on the team that get game planned for. KW would have drawn attention away from Merriman and Dareus all season. Imagine what Dareus could have done with KW next to him in the second half.

5. Easley and Jones. Sure one we don't know about besides impressive camp performances and the other wasn't a world beater but Jones was none the less our starting WR opposite Johnson and before getting hurt he was building a nice rapport with Fitz and getting behind the secondaries for some nice plays. Losing him forced others into the lineup at flanker that were not ready for it.

6. Hate to say it, losing Kelsay for that while was damaging. As average as he is, what was behind him on the depth chart may not even still be in the NFL next year let alone starting games.

7. Chandler missing games hurt the passing game for sure. He was our redzone target and mismatch guy. We obviously have no TEs on the roster outside of Chandler so it was a big loss.

8. Fred Jackson, leading rusher before getting injured, and I think leading also in yards from scrimmage. Spiller was obviously impressive but Jackson was rolling and Spiller was just getting his feet wet. Jackson could have done special things and helped us win more games.

9. I believe we lost George Wilson for 2-3 games and he was also having a huge season. We had a rookie behind him.

10. Aaron Williams - Wasn't a huge part of the defense but he was our 3rd or 4th CB in a league where teams are using 4 and 5 WR sets often.

All these injuries definitely had a huge a effect on the team and especially on a re-building team whose depth is thin and heavily dependent on the starters we came out of camp with.

[Beebe's Kid]

I want to play this game. If he is cheap...keep him. If he is too expensive...don't keep him. If he leaves, I reserve the right to piss and moan that the Bills never keep the good players. If they keep him, I'll complain that they should have gotten Finley, or at the very least that they should have signed both. Lather, rinse, and repeat...for every position every year.

[Ginger Vitis]

The injuries excuse is quite valid IMO. IF you want to criticize the FO for not having adequate backups in place to cover for them then you are entitled to that, but writing off the injuries as if they should not affect the continuity and ability to win is unrealistic.

1.Merriman going down was a massive loss because they literally had no back up plan and he was the source of stability at OLB and pass rush ability.

2. The interior of Levitre-Wood-Urbik was probably the best interior OL in the NFL in the first 7 weeks of the season. Losing Wood, shuffling off Levitre and Urbik to other positions was also massive blow.

3. Losing McGee hurt us because when healthy he is a very good, experienced CB who can tackle like a LB.

4. Maybe the biggest hit we took was losing KW. He was one of very few players we have on the team that get game planned for. KW would have drawn attention away from Merriman and Dareus all season. Imagine what Dareus could have done with KW next to him in the second half.

5. Easley and Jones. Sure one we don't know about besides impressive camp performances and the other wasn't a world beater but Jones was none the less our starting WR opposite Johnson and before getting hurt he was building a nice rapport with Fitz and getting behind the secondaries for some nice plays. Losing him forced others into the lineup at flanker that were not ready for it.

6. Hate to say it, losing Kelsay for that while was damaging. As average as he is, what was behind him on the depth chart may not even still be in the NFL next year let alone starting games.

7. Chandler missing games hurt the passing game for sure. He was our redzone target and mismatch guy. We obviously have no TEs on the roster outside of Chandler so it was a big loss.

8. Fred Jackson, leading rusher before getting injured, and I think leading also in yards from scrimmage. Spiller was obviously impressive but Jackson was rolling and Spiller was just getting his feet wet. Jackson could have done special things and helped us win more games.

9. I believe we lost George Wilson for 2-3 games and he was also having a huge season. We had a rookie behind him.

10. Aaron Williams - Wasn't a huge part of the defense but he was our 3rd or 4th CB in a league where teams are using 4 and 5 WR sets often.

All these injuries definitely had a huge a effect on the team and especially on a re-building team whose depth is thin and heavily dependent on the starters we came out of camp with.

Terrence McGee when healthy is not a very good CB.. Merriman when he played showed very little pass rush

[Mahdi]

Terrence McGee when healthy is not a very good CB.. Merriman when he played showed very little pass rush
In the first few games he got pressure on QBs and forced them into bad throws which resulted in turnovers.

He was a consistent player for us and a stabilized that position even if he wasn't at his best. For our defense he was a huge loss.