Kiper releases first mock

[T-Long]

Can't post the link, but I'll give you the Bills blurb:

Buffalo Bills Record: 6-10
Courtney Upshaw, LB, Alabama

Buffalo did well when it drafted Alabama defensive tackle Marcell Dareus with its first pick last year, but the pass rush still needs a lot of help. Upshaw is currently the best 3-4 outside linebacker in the draft, and he should be able to apply a lot of pressure to opposing quarterbacks from the edge for whoever gets him for 2012. No Buffalo player had more than 5.5 sacks in 2011, and the Bills simply can't get enough pressure without bringing extra players. Upshaw is a part of the solution. This is a big-time talent, a player who already was making an impact at Alabama as a freshman. He'll follow a similar path as a pro.

[BertSquirtgum]

I'll take some Upshaw

[Skooby]

If This dude ends up in our draft bank, we better cash the check.

[Scumbag College]

Unless a franchise QB falls into the Bills' lap, the best way to improve this team quickly is a pass rush.

[clumping platelets]

I like the pick..............I'd take only Luck or Blackmon over him

[jamze132]

Now that Kiper has released his first mock, the rest can now follow...

[JCBills]

Really depends on what scheme we run.

[X-Era]

I think his top 10 or so are very realistic. I'd love to land Upshaw.

[methos4ever]

Really depends on what scheme we run.
In a 3-4, he'd be fine as the Jack or Sam.

In a 4-3 (4-6 really vs the run) he can be the Will flanking or stacked over Dareus.

[Forward_Lateral]

Can he play with his hand on the ground as a DE in a 4-3?

[dannyek71]

I want Riley the OT.

[dannyek71]

I am sick of hearing the "needs" this team has. We need everything but a C.

[DraftBoy]

Can he play with his hand on the ground as a DE in a 4-3?

No.

[DraftBoy]

I lost almost all respect for Kiper yesterday when he said Denard Robinson was already one of the top WR's in the 2013 draft. A ridiculous statement.

[Forward_Lateral]

No.

Then it really wouldn't be a fit to draft a 3-4 OLB when the team is likely switching back to 4-3.

Or would it?

[Forward_Lateral]

I lost almost all respect for Kiper yesterday when he said Denard Robinson was already one of the top WR's in the 2013 draft. A ridiculous statement.

He said that? lol. He realizes that Denard is a QB, right? He's more suited to make a transition to RB than WR, imo, but what do I know.

[DraftBoy]

Then it really wouldn't be a fit to draft a 3-4 OLB when the team is likely switching back to 4-3.

Or would it?

I dont think so, but people here seem infatuated with the idea of getting a WLB with their top 10 pick.

[DraftBoy]

He said that? lol. He realizes that Denard is a QB, right? He's more suited to make a transition to RB than WR, imo, but what do I know.

He'll be a WR in the NFL, but he's sure as **** not the top guy yet without having caught a pass.

[Forward_Lateral]

He'll be a WR in the NFL, but he's sure as **** not the top guy yet without having caught a pass.

He likely won't have caught a pass upon entering the draft, either. Unless Hoke sacrifices the teams chances at a Big 10 title to move Denard to WR, which is highly unlikely.

[k-oneputt]

I lost almost all respect for Kiper yesterday when he said Denard Robinson was already one of the top WR's in the 2013 draft. A ridiculous statement.

Easy big guy.
What's that saying, something about a kettle and black ?

[better days]

I lost almost all respect for Kiper yesterday when he said Denard Robinson was already one of the top WR's in the 2013 draft. A ridiculous statement.

Yesterday? How about a couple years ago when he was pimping Jimmy Clausen as a first rnd pick because he was friends with Clausens agent.

[Jeff1220]

Yesterday? How about a couple years ago when he was pimping Jimmy Clausen as a first rnd pick because he was friends with Clausens agent.

Who's Jimmy Clausen?

[better days]

Who's Jimmy Clausen?

A failed 2nd rnd QB pick of the Panthers that won't be sitting on that bench much longer.

[The last buffalo fan]

I lost almost all respect for Kiper yesterday when he said Denard Robinson was already one of the top WR's in the 2013 draft. A ridiculous statement.

Who is the number 1 WR in your book adn why?
What are you comments in regards Robinson skills as WR?

Gracias,

[X-Era]

I lost almost all respect for Kiper yesterday when he said Denard Robinson was already one of the top WR's in the 2013 draft. A ridiculous statement.Does this imply you held a small amount of respect for Kiper before that? Come on DB. :lol:

[DraftBoy]

Easy big guy.
What's that saying, something about a kettle and black ?

Point to me once where I have said a position change player who has never taken a snap at that position will be a top prospect?

[k-oneputt]

Point to me once where I have said a position change player who has never taken a snap at that position will be a top prospect?

Actually I was thinking more about the "ridiculous statement" part.
Relax. Carry on.:trance:

[Mski]

i put very little thought into these, until after the combine

[k-oneputt]

I see Robinson as a 3rd -4th rd. pick as a slot wr.

[DraftBoy]

Yesterday? How about a couple years ago when he was pimping Jimmy Clausen as a first rnd pick because he was friends with Clausens agent.

There was lots of people pimping Clausen, there are plenty of things to be down on Kiper for, that wasn't one of them.

[DraftBoy]

Actually I was thinking more about the "ridiculous statement" part.
Relax. Carry on.:trance:

While I openly admit that at times I am over zealous, I've never been that crazy. A little respect, please.

[DraftBoy]

Does this imply you held a small amount of respect for Kiper before that? Come on DB. :lol:

Of course I did, and I still do. The man is self made, that's impressive. I dont often agree with him, but yes I have respect for him.

[better days]

There was lots of people pimping Clausen, there are plenty of things to be down on Kiper for, that wasn't one of them.

Kiper was his biggest Pimp. Tell me anyone else that had him as a 1st rnd pick, I know Todd McShay didn't.

[DraftBoy]

Kiper was his biggest Pimp. Tell me anyone else that had him as a 1st rnd pick, I know Todd McShay didn't.

I know 3 or 4 people here on this board or did, I know other national writers who did. Besides it wasnt like he went 7th Round he fell some. That happens, like I said plenty to fault Kiper on, this however is a very weak argument.

[stuckincincy]

I know 3 or 4 people here on this board or did, I know other national writers who did. Besides it wasnt like he went 7th Round he fell some. That happens, like I said plenty to fault Kiper on, this however is a very weak argument.

Mel's like everybody else - trying to predict the dice rolls of the 1st 2 rounds.

I do like his "best picks remaining" opinions in the latter rounds.

I can't understand why folks go after him. He carved out a career over many years, has become a part of the entertainment biz that is NFL football. His efforts are a big part of why the draft became a big event.

I've read this and that through the years from people who have met and spoke with him - seems to be a regular guy - albeit with a pompadour haircut.

[tampabay25690]

Really depends on what scheme we run.

I think he plays OLB in both schemes.
He is a nice addition if we can grab him..

[JCBills]

I think he plays OLB in both schemes.
He is a nice addition if we can grab him..

He is not a 4-3 OLB. 3-4 OLB and 4-3 RE are much closer. Maybe he's somehow that much of a freak, but you don't see many 260+ lb 4-3 OLBs.

[Mski]

He is not a 4-3 OLB. 3-4 OLB and 4-3 RE are much closer. Maybe he's somehow that much of a freak, but you don't see many 260+ lb 4-3 OLBs.Mario Williams :idunno:

[Mski]

Mario Williams :idunno::doh: read that backwards

[Johnny Bugmenot]

He is not a 4-3 OLB. 3-4 OLB and 4-3 RE are much closer. Maybe he's somehow that much of a freak, but you don't see many 260+ lb 4-3 OLBs.
Then what position, pray tell, does a 4-3 OLB play in a 3-4?

[better days]

I know 3 or 4 people here on this board or did, I know other national writers who did. Besides it wasnt like he went 7th Round he fell some. That happens, like I said plenty to fault Kiper on, this however is a very weak argument.

He not only fell to the 2nd rnd, but from the way he has played, he should not have been drafted before the 5th or 6th.

Like I said I expect the Panthers to cut bait on him...........SOON.

[JCBills]

Then what position, pray tell, does a 4-3 OLB play in a 3-4?

They usually don't fit. Some can kick inside, but it's a different job. That's why we got rid of most of our OLBs.

[DraftBoy]

He not only fell to the 2nd rnd, but from the way he has played, he should not have been drafted before the 5th or 6th.

Like I said I expect the Panthers to cut bait on him...........SOON.

Again its not about what he's done in the legue, you're intial point was about how highly Kiper mocked him. Which wasn't really all that bad, you've now changed your point.

[DraftBoy]

Then what position, pray tell, does a 4-3 OLB play in a 3-4?

He often doesn't.

[better days]

Again its not about what he's done in the legue, you're intial point was about how highly Kiper mocked him. Which wasn't really all that bad, you've now changed your point.

NO, I haven't. I expounded on my point. Claussen NEVER should have been drafted in the 1st rnd because he did not have the talent of a starting NFL QB & he never will.

Kiper only pimped him that high because he was very good friends with Clausens agent & Kiper has taken heat over that.

[DraftBoy]

NO, I haven't. I expounded on my point. Claussen NEVER should have been drafted in the 1st rnd because he did not have the talent of a starting NFL QB & he never will.

Kiper only pimped him that high because he was very good friends with Clausens agent & Kiper has taken heat over that.

You can argue your perception till your blue in the face, its a poor example given how many other people also ranked Clausen that high.

If you want to nail Kiper than nail him for Andre Ware, JJ Stokes, or John Walsh. The Clausen angle is a poor one.

[better days]

You can argue your perception till your blue in the face, its a poor example given how many other people also ranked Clausen that high.

If you want to nail Kiper than nail him for Andre Ware, JJ Stokes, or John Walsh. The Clausen angle is a poor one.

You have FAILED to NAME anyone that had Claussen going in the first rnd. Other than YOURSELF. It sounds like you don't want Kiper criticized about that because you yourself were also WRONG about Claussen.


Like I said, Todd McShay DID NOT have him going that high. And Kiper was called out for pimping him that high as a conflict of interest because he was good friends with Claussens agent.

The Claussen angle was a GOOD one & Kiper either pimped Claussen because he was a friend of the agent, or he is a really TERRIBLE judge of talent.

[DraftBoy]

You have FAILED to NAME anyone that had Claussen going in the first rnd. Other than YOURSELF. It sounds like you don't want Kiper criticized about that because you yourself were also WRONG about Claussen.


Like I said, Todd McShay DID NOT have him going that high. And Kiper was called out for pimping him that high as a conflict of interest because he was good friends with Claussens agent.

The Claussen angle was a GOOD one & Kiper either pimped Claussen because he was a friend of the agent, or he is a really TERRIBLE judge of talent.

I actually said that there was a good chance Clausen would fall in that draft. Again you can argue whatever warped perception you have of the events till your blue in the face doesn't make the example good.

And its Clausen, not Claussen and the agents name is Gary Wichard.

[better days]

I actually said that there was a good chance Clausen would fall in that draft. Again you can argue whatever warped perception you have of the events till your blue in the face doesn't make the example good.

And its Clausen, not Claussen and the agents name is Gary Wichard.

OK, sorry for saying you had Clausen going in the first. Also the misspelling of Clausens name.

Explain what part of my perception of that situation was warped.

1.) It was a FACT Kiper PIMPED Clausen HARD to go in the 1st rnd.

2.) He was the only paid member of the media to do so that I am aware of. If anyone else did, they are not well known like Kiper.

3.) McShay was on the radio arguing with Kipper all the time, right up to the draft about Kiper saying he should go in the first rnd.

4.) After the draft it was revealed that Kiper was friends with Wichard & Kiper was lambasted for picking Clausen to go that high for that reason.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I lost almost all respect for Kiper yesterday when he said Denard Robinson was already one of the top WR's in the 2013 draft. A ridiculous statement.

I agree, Shoelace is way to small to be effective in the NFL. I think he might be able to stick around for a little bit because of speed, but injuries will take their toll early.

[DraftBoy]

OK, sorry for saying you had Clausen going in the first. Also the misspelling of Clausens name.

Explain what part of my perception of that situation was warped.

1.) It was a FACT Kiper PIMPED Clausen HARD to go in the 1st rnd.

2.) He was the only paid member of the media to do so that I am aware of. If anyone else did, they are not well known like Kiper.

3.) McShay was on the radio arguing with Kipper all the time, right up to the draft about Kiper saying he should go in the first rnd.

4.) After the draft it was revealed that Kiper was friends with Wichard & Kiper was lambasted for picking Clausen to go that high for that reason.

#1 Of course he did, its his job to find a horse and ride him

#2 is incorrect, McShay had him in the first as well for a while, just not as high, and I know many others did too (CBS for example).

#3 And...that's their job and half of it is for show and ratings

#4. Kiper and Wichard being friend did not get revealed after the 2010 draft its a very well known and well documented relationship that goes way beyond Clausen.

[better days]

#1 Of course he did, its his job to find a horse and ride him

#2 is incorrect, McShay had him in the first as well for a while, just not as high, and I know many others did too (CBS for example).

#3 And...that's their job and half of it is for show and ratings

#4. Kiper and Wichard being friend did not get revealed after the 2010 draft its a very well known and well documented relationship that goes way beyond Clausen.


The closer it got to the draft, the LOWER Clausen was predicted to go by everyone except Kiper. McShay had him lower LONG before the draft.

If it was known Kiper & Wichard were good friends before the draft, it was not talked about. But it sure was talked about AFTER the draft, along with Kipers pimping Clausen so high & criticism for doing so.

[DraftBoy]

The closer it got to the draft, the LOWER Clausen was predicted to go by everyone except Kiper. McShay had him lower LONG before the draft.

If it was known Kiper & Wichard were good friends before the draft, it was not talked about. But it sure was talked about AFTER the draft, along with Kipers pimping Clausen so high & criticism for doing so.

Like I said argue it however you see fit.

Your second point however is wrong. It was widely known and talked about before the draft. It may have not been mainstream stuff but inside scouting circles its been talked about for years.

[JCBills]

I think the amount of heat Kiper gets is pretty ridiculous.

The weather man can't predict a fart, and Kiper gets slain for being off by a round. The government is like a bad sitcom and can't follow through on claims or projections, but hey let's re-elect.

[DesertFox24]

Upshaw can play with his hand on the ground but it is not his best position.

I personally think the guy will be successful but he is a 5 to 8 sack a year kind of guy in my opinion.

That being said there are no 10 sack a year players in this draft where we are picking in my opinion.

I would take Upshaw because he is a good player and a solid player and he is versatile.

[X-Era]

Upshaw can play with his hand on the ground but it is not his best position.

I personally think the guy will be successful but he is a 5 to 8 sack a year kind of guy in my opinion.

That being said there are no 10 sack a year players in this draft where we are picking in my opinion.

I would take Upshaw because he is a good player and a solid player and he is versatile.Agree. There isn't any sure fire double digit pass rusher with the right type of approach to football in my opinion. Guys like Coples come along every year. I have never been a fan of guys who take plays off. Outside of him there really isn't a stud pass rusher. Mercilus may be the next best.

[DraftBoy]

Agree. There isn't any sure fire double digit pass rusher with the right type of approach to football in my opinion. Guys like Coples come along every year. I have never been a fan of guys who take plays off. Outside of him there really isn't a stud pass rusher. Mercilus may be the next best.

Guys like Coples come along every year? There aren't many 280 pound double digit sack guys every year that I've seen.

Let's be clear here no DE has been as dominant or as consistent as Coples throughout their entire career, here are the numbers;
Coples: 24 sacks, 40.5 TFL
Upshaw: 17.5 sacks, 36.5 TFL
Mercilus: 18 sacks, 29 TFL
Perry: 21.5 sacks, 29.5 TFL

The idea that we are going to nearly condemn a kid for having solid to good tape the year after having great tape is assinine. I understand the desire to find a flaw in another guy so you can prop up your own but you guys are making it out to sound like Coples is garbage suddenly which just isn't true.

[stuckincincy]

Guys like Coples come along every year? There aren't many 280 pound double digit sack guys every year that I've seen.

Let's be clear here no DE has been as dominant or as consistent as Coples throughout their entire career, here are the numbers;
Coples: 24 sacks, 40.5 TFL
Upshaw: 17.5 sacks, 36.5 TFL
Mercilus: 18 sacks, 29 TFL
Perry: 21.5 sacks, 29.5 TFL

The idea that we are going to nearly condemn a kid for having solid to good tape the year after having great tape is assinine. I understand the desire to find a flaw in another guy so you can prop up your own but you guys are making it out to sound like Coples is garbage suddenly which just isn't true.

I don't recall seeing him play - how is he in run defense, and sealing the sidelines?

[DraftBoy]

I don't recall seeing him play - how is he in run defense, and sealing the sidelines?

He's (along with Upshaw) is the strongest DE in this class. He also may be the only one who actually plays with any kind of backside discipline and he unlike any of the others actually knows how to disengage.

[methos4ever]

He's (along with Upshaw) is the strongest DE in this class. He also may be the only one who actually plays with any kind of backside discipline and he unlike any of the others actually knows how to disengage.
Coples is one of the few guys that you can see from Frosh to Senior year obviously receive quality DL coach instruction. Last year he was criticized for protecting himself, but still got 7+ sacks. A lot of that craziness at UNC couldn't not (sorry for double neg) follow those players onto the field as well...

[stuckincincy]

He's (along with Upshaw) is the strongest DE in this class. He also may be the only one who actually plays with any kind of backside discipline and he unlike any of the others actually knows how to disengage.

Thanks - that's what I look for in a DE. CIN let Justin Smith go (pretty much due to $ they chose not to match), and the fans were dismayed about sack totals. He was a complete DE. Did a read nice job for SF in the NFC champ game, IMO. I noticed that they had him play inside time to time - he really pushed the pocket.

[X-Era]

Guys like Coples come along every year? There aren't many 280 pound double digit sack guys every year that I've seen.

Let's be clear here no DE has been as dominant or as consistent as Coples throughout their entire career, here are the numbers;
Coples: 24 sacks, 40.5 TFL
Upshaw: 17.5 sacks, 36.5 TFL
Mercilus: 18 sacks, 29 TFL
Perry: 21.5 sacks, 29.5 TFL

The idea that we are going to nearly condemn a kid for having solid to good tape the year after having great tape is assinine. I understand the desire to find a flaw in another guy so you can prop up your own but you guys are making it out to sound like Coples is garbage suddenly which just isn't true.Your totally off base and frankly wacked.

1) Guys with questionable intensity at DE do come every year. Michael Johnson, Calais Campbell, are just a few.

2) I never mentioned anything about the kids tape. When I've watched him I've watched him take plays off. It's a pet peeve of mine. Nick Fairley was a similar type of player.

3) I'm not trying to prop up anyone. I have about 4 or 5 guys that I think are realistic at 10. Coples happens to be one I'm leery on. I'm entitled.

4) He's not garbage, far from it. But he doesn't have the type of intensity that I personally like to see. I didn't exactly condemn him. That's a bad characterization.

5) You have consistently been a fan of this breed of DE including the aforementioned Campbell and Johnson. If you remember I was a huge Derrick Morgan fan and it looks like I blew that one. It happens.

[DraftBoy]

Your totally off base and frankly wacked.

1) Guys with questionable intensity at DE do come every year. Michael Johnson, Calais Campbell, are just a few.

2) I never mentioned anything about the kids tape. When I've watched him I've watched him take plays off. It's a pet peeve of mine. Nick Fairley was a similar type of player.

3) I'm not trying to prop up anyone. I have about 4 or 5 guys that I think are realistic at 10. Coples happens to be one I'm leery on. I'm entitled.

4) He's not garbage, far from it. But he doesn't have the type of intensity that I personally like to see. I didn't exactly condemn him. That's a bad characterization.

5) You have consistently been a fan of this breed of DE including the aforementioned Campbell and Johnson. If you remember I was a huge Derrick Morgan fan and it looks like I blew that one. It happens.

1. If you only take half the point, yes they do.
2. Well thats a big issue then
3. Never meant you specifically, but it has happened amongst others here and everywhere else
4. No I think its pretty fair
5. Yea I know and Campbell is considered to be one of the top DE FA on the market this year and Johnson just had an outstanding year with the Bengals. Too early to tell on Morgan plus his injury slows development.