It's a QB based league now & the better your QB is, the better your team

[Skooby]

I'm all for upgrading the pass rush & creating pressure on opposing QB's but Fitz is not a franchise guy. We paid him in a rush & he obviously hasn't performed. That money needs to be spent on a different position & we need to cut bait.

The Bills need to get a young guy to build a team around that will be here for the long haul, move up in the draft for either RGIII or Luck & let's start building for the future.

Go Bills

[Joe Fo Sho]

It's just that easy, huh?

[better days]

I'm all for upgrading the pass rush & creating pressure on opposing QB's but Fitz is not a franchise guy. We paid him in a rush & he obviously hasn't performed. That money needs to be spent on a different position & we need to cut bait.

The Bills need to get a young guy to build a team around that will be here for the long haul, move up in the draft for either RGIII or Luck & let's start building for the future.

Go Bills

So much easier said than done. It is much easier to move up from #4 to #2 than it is from #10 to #2. And forget about #1. The Colts will draft Luck without question.

[Cali512]

I do like Fitz, but if we could get a clear clear upgrade i would. But with everything that WILL be available, Fitz is our guy. As much as you hate it, with a good team around him, he will be good, and he has proved so.

[EricStratton]

move up in the draft for either RGIII or Luck & let's start building for the future.

Go Bills


You should email this post to the Bills front office, I bet they didn't know the Colts were willing to deal the top pick.

[Skooby]

You should email this post to the Bills front office, I bet they didn't know the Colts were willing to deal the top pick.

Notice how I had a few choices on there at QB, not just the top pick. There is rumors that the 2nd pick in the draft is up to be taken, so one of those guys should be available. I appreciate the smart*** comment though, it's pretty witty.

[better days]

Notice how I had a few choices on there at QB, not just the top pick. There is rumors that the 2nd pick in the draft is up to be taken, so one of those guys should be available. I appreciate the smart*** comment though, it's pretty witty.

Well, you didn't really have a few, you had TWO. And of the two, Luck is sure to go #1 to the Colts, that leaves RGIII. Like I said it would be very hard & the Bills would have to give up a LOT to move up to #2 for a QB prospect that may be great, but also may turn out to be mediocre.

[The Jokeman]

Well, you didn't really have a few, you had TWO. And of the two, Luck is sure to go #1 to the Colts, that leaves RGIII. Like I said it would be very hard & the Bills would have to give up a LOT to move up to #2 for a QB prospect that may be great, but also may turn out to be mediocre.
The franchise comes first when discussing franchise QBs. Build a team that can win inspite of the QB and then when you "unearth" a franchise QB you have a chance to win every week.

[Skooby]

Well, you didn't really have a few, you had TWO. And of the two, Luck is sure to go #1 to the Colts, that leaves RGIII. Like I said it would be very hard & the Bills would have to give up a LOT to move up to #2 for a QB prospect that may be great, but also may turn out to be mediocre.

2 picks when the 2nd pick looks to be available covers the base, so it's accurate. Technically speaking, our team needs a huge spark. Who here can't wait to buy season tickets for December games with our current roster ?

[JCBills]

I'm all for upgrading the pass rush & creating pressure on opposing QB's but Fitz is not a franchise guy. We paid him in a rush & he obviously hasn't performed. That money needs to be spent on a different position & we need to cut bait.

The Bills need to get a young guy to build a team around that will be here for the long haul, move up in the draft for either RGIII or Luck & let's start building for the future.

Go Bills

With a FO that doesn't like moving picks, I'm not sure how this is all that relevant of a discussion, seeing how we have it every year.

[Skooby]

With a FO that doesn't like moving picks, I'm not sure how this is all that relevant of a discussion, seeing how we have it every year.

The GM announced they're going to be much more aggressive, so that means we might just get someone partially obscure versus completely obscure.

[JCBills]

The GM announced they're going to be much more aggressive, so that means we might just get someone partially obscure versus completely obscure.

I'm pretty sure that was in relation to FA.

There isn't a need to bet the farm to move up picks. It costs too much, and we need all the players we can get.

Fitz is still probably their starter for 2012. Get a QB to develop behind him, even if it is only for half of a season.

[k-oneputt]

I think everyone damn well knows that the Bills will not be trading up to the 1st or 2nd pick to take a qb.

[Forward_Lateral]

It's been a QB based league for 50 years.

[stuckincincy]

Williams...McGahee...Losman...Lynch...Whitner...McCargo...McKelvin...Spiller...Richardson?

The highlight of a Bills' season for several years has occurred in April - the dropped jaw, the gaping mouth, the stunned silence, finally broken by a hearty WTF !!!!!???!!!




:*****slap:

[better days]

2 picks when the 2nd pick looks to be available covers the base, so it's accurate. Technically speaking, our team needs a huge spark. Who here can't wait to buy season tickets for December games with our current roster ?

The Bills would probably have to give up two #1 picks & two #2 picks to move up from #10 to #2 in the draft.

If RGIII turns out to be a GREAT QB, it would be worth it. BUT if he is not great, that trade would ruin the Bills chances for any improvement in the next couple years. HUGE GAMBLE.

[YardRat]

Here we go again....

[jamze132]

We aren't in position to trade way picks to move up this year. We need to take the best defensive player available at #10 this year and go from there.

Yeah, we need a QB, I get it. We also need about 17 other positions right and they can't all be filled in one draft.

[stuckincincy]

The GM announced they're going to be much more aggressive, so that means we might just get someone partially obscure versus completely obscure.

Remember - baby steps come first.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Unless your team has Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, you wont get very far with out a good defense.

[justasportsfan]

qb that won a sb in recent years.


Elite QBs
Brady
Manning
Rothlesberger
Rogers
Eli
Brees
Warner
Farve


Not Eilte
Brad Johnson
Dilfer



It could be ARGUED that Fitz is at the same level as Dilfer and Brad Johnson . Average at best QB's whose defenses pretty much got them to and won them the sb


For us to win the sb we better have a D that as great as Bucs and Ravens. Fitz is NOT a QB that you can rely on to win games like the Elite list.

[PTI]

Fitz is not even close to Brad Johnson, it is silly to even say that. While Johnson was not elite, he without a doubt had an eilte, getting league MVP vote type of season. He was 3rd in the NFL is QB rating, THIRD!!!!! He had 22 TD passes and only 6 INTs. Efficient, short passing game led the NFL just before that some extra no touch on WRs rule out in place, it was Pennington, Gannon, then Johnson, then Trent Gree, and Peyton Manning was 5th. 28 TDs led the league. Johnson was elite that season.

[justasportsfan]

Fitz is not even close to Brad Johnson, it is silly to even say that. While Johnson was not elite, he without a doubt had an eilte, getting league MVP vote type of season. He was 3rd in the NFL is QB rating, THIRD!!!!! He had 22 TD passes and only 6 INTs. Efficient, short passing game led the NFL just before that some extra no touch on WRs rule out in place, it was Pennington, Gannon, then Johnson, then Trent Gree, and Peyton Manning was 5th. 28 TDs led the league. Johnson was elite that season.
Brad wasn't elite his entire career is what I meant. He does not belong to the prior list.

[EDS]

qb that won a sb in recent years.


Elite QBs
Brady
Manning
Rothlesberger
Rogers
Eli
Brees
Warner
Farve


Not Eilte
Brad Johnson
Dilfer



It could be ARGUED that Fitz is at the same level as Dilfer and Brad Johnson . Average at best QB's whose defenses pretty much got them to and won them the sb


For us to win the sb we better have a D that as great as Bucs and Ravens. Fitz is NOT a QB that you can rely on to win games like the Elite list.

Agree with the sentiment of all of this. Problem for the Bills is they have neither a great quarterback or a great defense. The Ravens defense was led by likely HOFers Lewis and Reed. The Bucs D was led by likely HOFers Sapp and Brooks.

Moving up to get Luck or RGIII is unfortunately not going to happen for the Bills. What they need desperately is a game changing defensive talent. Dareus is the only guy on the roster to be such a player and the Bills will need two if they hope to make any post-season noise with Fitz at QB.

[better days]

Brad wasn't elite his entire career is what I meant. He does not belong to the prior list.

The Super Bowl year, was a career year for Brad Johnson. If Fitz were on as talented a team as that Bucs team, it is possible Fitz could have a career year.

[DynaPaul]

Fitz is just good enough to get your hopes up before they crash down... like almost every other Buffalo player drafted in the last 10 years.

[Bill Cody]

Well, you didn't really have a few, you had TWO. And of the two, Luck is sure to go #1 to the Colts, that leaves RGIII. Like I said it would be very hard & the Bills would have to give up a LOT to move up to #2 for a QB prospect that may be great, but also may turn out to be mediocre.

Isn't this issue basically going to be the case EVERY YEAR? QB's with a big ceiling are going to go early, very early. And yet there's NEVER any guarantees. So does this mean we either stick with Fitz in his beard turns gray or wait until we go 2-14 again? I don't think so.

[Bill Cody]

qb that won a sb in recent years.


Not Eilte
Brad Johnson
Dilfer



It could be ARGUED that Fitz is at the same level as Dilfer and Brad Johnson . Average at best QB's whose defenses pretty much got them to and won them the sb


For us to win the sb we better have a D that as great as Bucs and Ravens. Fitz is NOT a QB that you can rely on to win games like the Elite list.

This is not the league it was a decade ago. Johnson and Dilfer would not be able to win today.

[Bill Cody]

The Bills would probably have to give up two #1 picks & two #2 picks to move up from #10 to #2 in the draft.

If RGIII turns out to be a GREAT QB, it would be worth it. BUT if he is not great, that trade would ruin the Bills chances for any improvement in the next couple years. HUGE GAMBLE.

a) Not sure you'd have to move up all the way to 2 to get RGIII, maybe 4 or 5 which is a significant difference

b) Explain what you mean by gamble. Do you mean if we did move up and RGIII was a bust it would mean we might suck for a while? Pretty sure we've already got that covered. And we're not gambling now with Fitz are we? We're simply DOOMED.

[justasportsfan]

This is not the league it was a decade ago. Johnson and Dilfer would not be able to win today.

Alex Smith is pretty much in their level but I agree with you. That is why I dont think Fitz is a sb qb. He may get us to a playoff but not the sb.

[ddaryl]

and the league will become a running smash mouth league again in the near future.

It's cyclical, and that change IMO is not to far off..

[Bill Cody]

Alex Smith is pretty much in their level but I agree with you. That is why I dont think Fitz is a sb qb. He may get us to a playoff but not the sb.

You even saw a playoff caliber QB the 2nd half of the year? I sure didn't.

[Bill Cody]

and the league will become a running smash mouth league again in the near future.

It's cyclical, and that change IMO is not to far off..

No it isn't that's absurd. Why run when you can gain 7 yards an attempt to pass? Short of a rule change the NFL is changed to a passing league forever. To me it's kind of boring.

[ddaryl]

No it isn't that's absurd. Why run when you can gain 7 yards an attempt to pass? Short of a rule change the NFL is changed to a passing league forever. To me it's kind of boring.

they've changed rules before they will again

but teams will develop D's to counter the passing league but will be left vulnerable to the running game.

but I do agree the rules favor the passing game right now

[PTI]

It has already been established that RBs can be found whenever in the draft. In the last 10 years, the best RB a team had that won a Super Bowl was Rashard Mendenhall.

GB - ?!? UB guy in the Super Bowl, ugh
Saints - used 3 guys
Steelers - Mendenhall
Giants - Jacobs
Colts - Addai
Steelers - Parker
Pats - no one
Pats - no one
Bucs - Dunn/Alstott
Pats - no one

The 4 before that you had Jamal Lewis, Marshall Faulk, and Terrell Davis, but I find it hard to believe unless your QB plays well that you will ever win ever again.

[YardRat]

qb that won a sb in recent years.


Elite QBs
Brady
Manning
Rothlesberger
Rogers
Eli
Brees
Warner
Farve



Brady - granted.
Manning - Peyton is a big-game choker that never won anything until his defense stepped up.
Rothlisberger - hot and cold - when the hell did he ever really carry a team?
Rodgers - pretty good, but had a #1 defense last season. What happened this season when the defense faltered?
Eli - Eli won with defense and luck. Has a second chance, and he is playing great.
Brees - Lucky he played a choker in his big game.
Warner - Not elite.
Favre - A bigger choker than Manning...Would be ringless without Reggie White.

[IMissKelly]

What about Brock Osweiler the ASU QB in the 2nd round. Big guy with a big arm. Weird release but should not be a problem.

[wozrob11]

i think we need a qb bad REAL bad but if we can get luck or griffen then im sick of the lets find the diamond in the rough crap in the later rounds if we cant get those top couple qbs then forget it and draft pass rusher or OL

[feldspar]

There is zero chance of the Bills trading up for a QB. NONE. The top 2 QBs will be gone by the time we pick, and we won't think about taking any of the others. Fitz is going to be the QB next year, whether people like it or not. We'll see how he does. There are plenty of other positions we need...any resembling a pass rush would be nice, for instance.

[better days]

a) Not sure you'd have to move up all the way to 2 to get RGIII, maybe 4 or 5 which is a significant difference

b) Explain what you mean by gamble. Do you mean if we did move up and RGIII was a bust it would mean we might suck for a while? Pretty sure we've already got that covered. And we're not gambling now with Fitz are we? We're simply DOOMED.

I think we are more doomed if the Bills don't improve the team around Fitz. I saw what happened to the Bucs after they gave up the farm to get Gruden from the Raiders. That team went downhill fast. They tried to compensate by signing FAs but you can't easily replace that many high picks lost.

The Bucs gave up two #1 picks & two #2 picks for Gruden, most likely what the Bills would have to give up to move to #2 from #10.

I think the Bills should draft at least one QB every year at some point in the draft until they hit on one.

[better days]

Brady - granted.
Manning - Peyton is a big-game choker that never won anything until his defense stepped up.
Rothlisberger - hot and cold - when the hell did he ever really carry a team?
Rodgers - pretty good, but had a #1 defense last season. What happened this season when the defense faltered?
Eli - Eli won with defense and luck. Has a second chance, and he is playing great.
Brees - Lucky he played a choker in his big game.
Warner - Not elite.
Favre - A bigger choker than Manning...Would be ringless without Reggie White.

Name me one QB that ever won without a good team surrounding him, including Brady.

[YardRat]

Name me one QB that ever won without a good team surrounding him, including Brady.

That's pretty much my point...build the team properly instead of continually reaching for one position to be a savior, because it doesn't happen that way and I don't care how good of a QB somebody is.

[Skooby]

That's pretty much my point...build the team properly instead of continually reaching for one position to be a savior, because it doesn't happen that way and I don't care how good of a QB somebody is.

Clueless, QB play determines how far your team will go.

[YardRat]

Clueless, QB play determines how far your team will go.

No.

Every season we go through this QB nut-hugging and every season it is proven wrong.

[Buddo]

What I fail to understand is the obsession with having an alleged 'elite' or 'franchise' QB, as the panacea for a crap team.
Team sports simply don't work like that, and the sooner some of the idiots around here understand this, the better off we will all be.
It should also be noted, that without competence elsewhere on the offense, you probably wouldn't even know if you had an 'elite' QB, unless the criteria was simply to draft one with your highest pick.

[Skooby]

What I fail to understand is the obsession with having an alleged 'elite' or 'franchise' QB, as the panacea for a crap team.
Team sports simply don't work like that, and the sooner some of the idiots around here understand this, the better off we will all be.
It should also be noted, that without competence elsewhere on the offense, you probably wouldn't even know if you had an 'elite' QB, unless the criteria was simply to draft one with your highest pick.

If Peyton Manning was healthy last year, would the Colts had the top pick this year ?? He single-handedly made the team better, franchise QB's do things like that. They motivate, the excite and the stride for winning.

Right now, we have a guy with a loser attitude. Beard is cool, losing is not.

[YardRat]

If Peyton Manning was healthy last year, would the Colts had the top pick this year ?? He single-handedly made the team better, franchise QB's do things like that. They motivate, the excite and the stride for winning.

Right now, we have a guy with a loser attitude. Beard is cool, losing is not.

There really is no way to judge how Indy would've done this season with Manning...most likely better and not the top pick but still a non-playoff team at the precipice of rebuilding.

[Skooby]

There really is no way to judge how Indy would've done this season with Manning...most likely better and not the top pick but still a non-playoff team at the precipice of rebuilding.

All thanks to one guy, so there goes the whole team versus one player theory. You're an incredibly intelligent guy & I enjoy all your postings, so use logic here. Who do you want with the ball with 2 minutes left, Brady / A healthy Manning / franchise clutch QB or Fitz??

We don't have anyone on our roster I trust with the ball to throw it or catch, Stevie included choker. We need one guy that solid in the equation, a gamer. That's how you win in this league, eliminating variables.

[Mr. Pink]

Name me one QB that ever won without a good team surrounding him, including Brady.


John Elway won 3 AFC titles with little to nothing around him in the late 80s.

[YardRat]

All thanks to one guy, so there goes the whole team versus one player theory. You're an incredibly intelligent guy & I enjoy all your postings, so use logic here. Who do you want with the ball with 2 minutes left, Brady / A healthy Manning / franchise clutch QB or Fitz??

I'm certainly not going to put Fitz in the same category as Brady or Manning, but early in the season he was as clutch and confidence-instilling as anybody. Fitz will never be Brady or Manning, but he doesn't have to be.

As far as your question...I'd take Brady in any situation...Manning in the regular season, but no way in the playoffs because he's one of the biggest 'big game' chokers in the history of the league.


We don't have anyone on our roster I trust with the ball to throw it or catch, Stevie included choker. We need one guy that solid in the equation, a gamer. That's how you win in this league, eliminating variables.

A team never eliminates variables, and it's more rare to have the ability to minimize them that much. Tom Bradys, Joe Montanas, Otto Grahams are few and far between.

[YardRat]

John Elway won 3 AFC titles with little to nothing around him in the late 80s.

Yeah, because guys like Tom Jackson, Karl Mecklenberg, Louis Wright, Dennis Smith and Steve Atwater are pretty much run-of-the-mill nobodies.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, because guys like Tom Jackson, Karl Mecklenberg, Louis Wright, Dennis Smith and Steve Atwater are pretty much run-of-the-mill nobodies.


Jackson's last season was 86. Mecklenburg was a top LBer at the time, I'll give you him. Louis Wright was an average corner. Dennis Smith was a little above average and Steve Atwater wasn't even in the league until 1989.

Seriously go look at who was on that team in 86 and 87. Elway carried them.

The 86 Broncos were 6th in scoring, 15th in points allowed.

[alohabillsfan]

Dam we should of drafted Gabbert, ROFLMAO. MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buddo]

The assumption that the decline of the Colts is simply down to the lack of Peyton Manning, is ridiculous really.
Their decline has been ongoing for a few years tbh.
What they had previously, was plenty of playmakers, on both sides of the football. They don't have them all any more, and they don't have the ones they do have, on the field enough, to be consistent.

The best 'argument' people seem to be capable of coming up with, is that a couple of exceptional QBs in the history of the NFL, have made enough of a difference to a franchise, that they have carried them on their own shoulders, into the playoffs.

Big friggin' deal.

Off the top of my head I can think of two mediocre QBs who have won SBs with a good team around them in Dilfer and Hostetler, and that's with no research whatsoever. How many good teams with mediocre QBs have made it just to the playoffs? Quite probably a heck of a lot.

The very nature of a team sport, means that it is very rarely that one individual can transcend the limitations of the rest of his team, and lead them to success. It can, and has, happened, but the frequency with which it does occur, is about once a generation, in any given sport..

[YardRat]

Jackson's last season was 86. Mecklenburg was a top LBer at the time, I'll give you him. Louis Wright was an average corner. Dennis Smith was a little above average and Steve Atwater wasn't even in the league until 1989.

Seriously go look at who was on that team in 86 and 87. Elway carried them.

The 86 Broncos were 6th in scoring, 15th in points allowed.

The conference championships you referred to were '86, '87 and '89 thus my reference to those specific players.

[Skooby]

The conference championships you referred to were '86, '87 and '89 thus my reference to those specific players.

Mecklenburg rocked on techmobowl as well.

[Prov401]

Clueless, QB play determines how far your team will go.

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson weren't elite QB's. And they grabbed a couple of rings this decade.

It's a team sport. Front office, coaches, defense, offense, special teams all have to be aligned and performed at the highest level for Super bowl success. Yea, having Tom Brady is wonderful, but how many of them come around? Not many.

And Luck is a lock to wear the horse-shoe. RG III would cost the Bills an insane amount of picks in order to be in position to select him. Fitz is our guy, at least for another year.

[Skooby]

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson weren't elite QB's. And they grabbed a couple of rings this decade.

It's a team sport. Front office, coaches, defense, offense, special teams all have to be aligned and performed at the highest level for Super bowl success. Yea, having Tom Brady is wonderful, but how many of them come around? Not many.

And Luck is a lock to wear the horse-shoe. RG III would cost the Bills an insane amount of picks in order to be in position to select him. Fitz is our guy, at least for another year.

Just answer the question, do you want to win the big games ?? Having a guy like Fitz around won't get you anything of value & finding rare instances of success don't count.

[YardRat]

Just answer the question, do you want to win the big games ?? Having a guy like Fitz around won't get you anything of value & finding rare instances of success don't count.

We'd have been much better off with guys like Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger and Ryan in big games this season wouldn't we?

[Skooby]

We'd have been much better off with guys like Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger and Ryan in big games this season wouldn't we?

We'd have something to talk about besides a top 1/3 of the league draft pick, or worse. My whole point is that going nowhere is where we have been, it's time to try and break the pattern. We moved up for JP Losman for Christ's sake, it's time to move up to the top of the draft for the real talent.

I'm just sick of the cellar & talent makes it better, it might be a fantasy.

[YardRat]

We'd have something to talk about besides a top 1/3 of the league draft pick, or worse.

Pure speculation and wishful thinking.

[Skooby]

Pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Like hoping that Fitz will lead the Bills to any level of success ?

[YardRat]

Like hoping that Fitz will lead the Bills to any level of success ?

Like acknowledgment that you need to build a team from the trenches out and continually hoping that the next QB wonderboy will lead anybody to the promise land is fool's gold.