Does this hurt the pats "legacy"

[trapezeus]

for the ball washing bristol press that just loves their hometown cheaters, does two losses in 4 years start (and none after spygate) are the patriots losing their luster?

Are they:
1. no longer thought of one of the best dynasties of all time?
2. no longer the team with the QB you want with 2 minutes to play?
3. no longer the team with the most brilliant coaching mind in the modern age of football?

I know i'm on a bills board and i know we are all going to just tear into the patriots. That was in fact the point. F the patriots.

[Bill Cody]

That one has to sting for them but I can remember a day when we had big games that stung. Until/if we get back to being in a conversation for one of those stinging losses I think I'll hold my fire, thanks.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

yeah we've beaten them once in 15 bajillion tries so they've dynastied us up the ars

[ublinkwescore]

F THE PATS!!!! LIFE IS GOOD RIGHT NOW!!! MAYBE NOW BELICHEK WILL RETIRE!!!

[OpIv37]

for the ball washing bristol press that just loves their hometown cheaters, does two losses in 4 years start (and none after spygate) are the patriots losing their luster?

Are they:
1. no longer thought of one of the best dynasties of all time?
2. no longer the team with the QB you want with 2 minutes to play?
3. no longer the team with the most brilliant coaching mind in the modern age of football?

I know i'm on a bills board and i know we are all going to just tear into the patriots. That was in fact the point. F the patriots.

Unfortunately, I think they are still the top dynasty of all time, or at least they have to be in the conversation. They have 3 SB wins and 5 appearances in 12 years. There are dynasties in the past that were more successful over shorter time periods (ie the Steelers of the late 70's, the Cowboys in the mid-90's) but none had that kind of sustained success.

As far as Brady in the last 2 minutes, well, I think that myth has been debunked. It's not that Brady can't do it because he's proven that he can, but he's not 100% and there are plenty of other QB's around the league who would give you at least an equal shot.

And I still think Bellicheck is a brilliant coach, despite some bonehead moves. His problem is his ego. He defied convention and proved himself to be right a few times, and now he's at a stage where he defies convention just to prove a point, and he's screwing himself because of it. Taking two TE's in the draft allowed him to run a very effective O that no one in the NFL could replicate or stop, but it came at the expense of a true outside WR and/or better DB's, which was the Patriots' undoing in the long run. And allowing the other team to take the lead in the SB so you have time to come back is just, well, dumb.

[OpIv37]

F THE PATS!!!! LIFE IS GOOD RIGHT NOW!!! MAYBE NOW BELICHEK WILL RETIRE!!!

I don't think we'll be so lucky. He'll retire when Brady is washed up, which is still a few years away.

[Philagape]

There are dynasties in the past that were more successful over shorter time periods (ie the Steelers of the late 70's, the Cowboys in the mid-90's) but none had that kind of sustained success.

The 49ers.

From 1983 to 1998 they had double-digit wins in every season. 16 straight seasons. 17 out of 18 counting 1981. 16 playoff berths and 5-0 in the Super Bowl.
One can hardly wrap their mind around that.

[better days]

Unfortunately, I think they are still the top dynasty of all time, or at least they have to be in the conversation. They have 3 SB wins and 5 appearances in 12 years. There are dynasties in the past that were more successful over shorter time periods (ie the Steelers of the late 70's, the Cowboys in the mid-90's) but none had that kind of sustained success.

As far as Brady in the last 2 minutes, well, I think that myth has been debunked. It's not that Brady can't do it because he's proven that he can, but he's not 100% and there are plenty of other QB's around the league who would give you at least an equal shot.

And I still think Bellicheck is a brilliant coach, despite some bonehead moves. His problem is his ego. He defied convention and proved himself to be right a few times, and now he's at a stage where he defies convention just to prove a point, and he's screwing himself because of it. Taking two TE's in the draft allowed him to run a very effective O that no one in the NFL could replicate or stop, but it came at the expense of a true outside WR and/or better DB's, which was the Patriots' undoing in the long run. And allowing the other team to take the lead in the SB so you have time to come back is just, well, dumb.

Well, the fact remains the Pats* have never won a Super Bowl without cheating.

[Night Train]

Any team that has won 3 SB's has no worry about their legacy.

[OpIv37]

Well, the fact remains the Pats* have never won a Super Bowl without cheating.

Except that no one seems to care. They should care, but they don't.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Any team that has won 3 SB's has no worry about their legacy.
Unless your wins all have an asterisk next to them.

[Forward_Lateral]

I hate Brady just as much as anyone on here, but saying his legacy is tainted because he couldn't connect on a hail mary to win the game is stupid.

That being said he's still a big fat douchebag.

[OpIv37]

I hate Brady just as much as anyone on here, but saying his legacy is tainted because he couldn't connect on a hail mary to win the game is stupid.

That being said he's still a big fat douchebag.

It's not that his legacy is tarnished by one drive/play. It's the consistent failure on the biggest stages ever since Spygate. Don't get me wrong- his overall legacy is intact, unfortunately. But this myth that he can do anything with the ball in his hands on a drive necessary to win the game has been busted. Eli and several other QB's around the league are at least his equal in that situation.

[DraftBoy]

Nope.

[better days]

I hate Brady just as much as anyone on here, but saying his legacy is tainted because he couldn't connect on a hail mary to win the game is stupid.

That being said he's still a big fat douchebag.

Brady & Belichicks legacy is tainted because neither of them won a Super Bowl without CHEATING. If they had won this game, it would have helped make the Super Bowls they did win when they cheated seem more legitimate.

By failing to win even one Super Bowl without CHEATING, leaves a HUGE taint on their legacy.

[Michael82]

Well, the fact remains the Pats* have never won a Super Bowl without cheating.
That's the reason why their legacy is tainted, especially Belichick's. The Patriots have not won a Super Bowl since Spygate and their cheating. They need to cheat to win it all.

[Novacane]

They won 3 very close SB when they could get away with cheating. They've lost 2 close SB post cheating. The only logical conclusion is the cheating was just enough to put them over the top in the first 3. If not for cheating Brady and BB would be O for 5 and no one will ever convince me otherwise :D

[Meathead]

they are cheaters, plain and simple

what have they won when they werent cheating? nuthin

thats their god damn legacy

[justasportsfan]

thier legacy is tainted because of this...nuff said

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rIfLhkn7l78" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[YardRat]

Unfortunately, I think they are still the top dynasty of all time, or at least they have to be in the conversation. They have 3 SB wins and 5 appearances in 12 years. There are dynasties in the past that were more successful over shorter time periods (ie the Steelers of the late 70's, the Cowboys in the mid-90's) but none had that kind of sustained success.

You've got to win it all to be a dynasty, and they haven't won anything in seven years.

[Goobylal]

No SB wins since caught cheating definitely hurts their "dynasty." Basically makes them a "dynasty" along the lines of the 2000's Colts, although the Colts didn't get caught cheating on their way to winning their SB.

[Michael82]

http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/Screen-Shot-2012-02-06-at-9.54.50-AM.png

[Mr. Pink]

Unfortunately, I think they are still the top dynasty of all time, or at least they have to be in the conversation. They have 3 SB wins and 5 appearances in 12 years. There are dynasties in the past that were more successful over shorter time periods (ie the Steelers of the late 70's, the Cowboys in the mid-90's) but none had that kind of sustained success.

As far as Brady in the last 2 minutes, well, I think that myth has been debunked. It's not that Brady can't do it because he's proven that he can, but he's not 100% and there are plenty of other QB's around the league who would give you at least an equal shot.

And I still think Bellicheck is a brilliant coach, despite some bonehead moves. His problem is his ego. He defied convention and proved himself to be right a few times, and now he's at a stage where he defies convention just to prove a point, and he's screwing himself because of it. Taking two TE's in the draft allowed him to run a very effective O that no one in the NFL could replicate or stop, but it came at the expense of a true outside WR and/or better DB's, which was the Patriots' undoing in the long run. And allowing the other team to take the lead in the SB so you have time to come back is just, well, dumb.


Cleveland Browns 46-56...granted 4 of those years were in the AAFC but...

10 years of existence, 10 titles games, 7 victories. 4-0 in AAFC 3-3 in NFL.

[DynaPaul]

All of their Super Bowl "victories" were by 3 points or less. They lost the last 2 SB's after Spygate. Yeah, they're a dynasty but not one of the great ones. They will never match up to the 70's Steelers, 80's 49'ers, or even the 90's Cowboys. The 90's Bills were a better dynasty and they never even won it all.

[trapezeus]

http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/Screen-Shot-2012-02-06-at-9.54.50-AM.png

it'd be hilarious if he got fined for this.

[Michael82]

it'd be hilarious if he got fined for this.

Yeah it would. Even though it's the truth!

[BADTHINGSMAN]

While they are still a dynasty, I think 2 losses do affect them. If they completed the perfect season a few years ago then yes best ever. I think people will look back and say yeah they went to 5 SB (so far) but it had alot of controversy along the way. Unless of course your a Patriot fan or work for ESPN.

[don137]

Even if their cheating helped them in two or three plays a game that could be the difference in winning or losing a super bowl. If they were able to cheat in this or the last super bowl like they did previously they could be 5-0 in Brady/Bellichick era. Without cheating they could of been 0-5. One will never know so yes the legacy is tainted.

[Michael82]

Even if their cheating helped them in two or three plays a game that could be the difference in winning or losing a super bowl. If they were able to cheat in this or the last super bowl like they did previously they could be 5-0 in Brady/Bellichick era. Without cheating they could of been 0-5. One will never know so yes the legacy is tainted.
All 3 games were won by 3 points each. There's no way that their cheating didn't help them... I bet they would have lost at least 2 out of the 3.

[Goobylal]

The cheating obviously helped them. Otherwise they wouldn't have continued to do it after getting caught the first time (in 2006). No one cheats knowing there are severe consequences, unless it gives you an advantage. How much of an advantage is anyone's guess, but it's not like when you cheat on a test, you get credit for certain answers. The whole thing is invalidated.