Report: Vikings have preliminary stadium deal

[OpIv37]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7587788/report-minnesota-vikings-preliminary-agreement-stadium

If this pans out, it's bad news for Buffalo because it puts us one step closer to the top of the list of candidates to move to LA.

[mikemac2001]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7587788/report-minnesota-vikings-preliminary-agreement-stadium

If this pans out, it's bad news for Buffalo because it puts us one step closer to the top of the list of candidates to move to LA.


**** that move the jags

[ublinkwescore]

As much as I'd love to see the Bills stay in Western NY, if they have to move, I'd be absolutely thrilled to hear they moved out here to California... with them being closer, it would make me being able to see them soooo much more easy.

[ddaryl]

I am not worried about Buffalo moving

I, however would like to say that Minnesota Viking fans deserve to keep their team, and I am happy for them

[ddaryl]

As much as I'd love to see the Bills stay in Western NY, if they have to move, I'd be absolutely thrilled to hear they moved out here to California... with them being closer, it would make me being able to see them soooo much more easy.

how could you root for the team after it moves. They are the Bills because they are from buffalo, if they move ot LA, they would change the name and it would never be the Bills again.

Even if they did keep the name it still wouldn't be the Bills. if a move to California is all you need, then become a Chargers, Raiders or 49'ers fan, it would be the exact same thing

[OpIv37]

**** that move the jags

the Jags don't have the fan base we do. That's obvious.

But they also have a brutal stadium lease that is very expensive to break.

The Bills currently have no stadium lease after this season.

For a potential investor who would want to move the team, that makes us much more appealing.

Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen. Ralph has said he won't sell the team while he's alive, there's still time to get a lease done, and a new owner won't necessarily want to move the team. But if it were my money on the line and I didn't have any emotional attachment to a team as a fan, I'd certainly be taking a long, hard look at the Bills.

[Jaydog57]

the Jags don't have the fan base we do. That's obvious.

But they also have a brutal stadium lease that is very expensive to break.

The Bills currently have no stadium lease after this season.

For a potential investor who would want to move the team, that makes us much more appealing.

Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen. Ralph has said he won't sell the team while he's alive, there's still time to get a lease done, and a new owner won't necessarily want to move the team. But if it were my money on the line and I didn't have any emotional attachment to a team as a fan, I'd certainly be taking a long, hard look at the Bills.I heard about that, but I thought the lease was able to be broken upon change of ownership. Maybe not, though.

[YardRat]

The Bills aren't moving out of WNY, period.

No lease is unbreachable, it's just a matter of negotiating the right buy-out for the right dollar amount in the city's eyes. Considering that naming rights to the new LA stadium have been reported to be in the $700mil range, IMO it wouldn't be too difficult to pull off.

[more cowbell]

As much as I'd love to see the Bills stay in Western NY, if they have to move, I'd be absolutely thrilled to hear they moved out here to California... with them being closer, it would make me being able to see them soooo much more easy.


I live in California too...I would hate the "Bills" more than any team in Professional Sports if they moved from Buffalo.

[better days]

how could you root for the team after it moves. They are the Bills because they are from buffalo, if they move ot LA, they would change the name and it would never be the Bills again.

Even if they did keep the name it still wouldn't be the Bills. if a move to California is all you need, then become a Chargers, Raiders or 49'ers fan, it would be the exact same thing

Well said.

[better days]

I heard about that, but I thought the lease was able to be broken upon change of ownership. Maybe not, though.

The amount to break that lease becomes less every year. It looks like the moves the new owner of the Jags is making is putting them in position to move.

[jamze132]

As much as I'd love to see the Bills stay in Western NY, if they have to move, I'd be absolutely thrilled to hear they moved out here to California... with them being closer, it would make me being able to see them soooo much more easy.
Eh... They wouldn't be the Bills. They wouldn't be from Buffalo.

How many Ravens fans live in Cleveland?

[better days]

Eh... They wouldn't be the Bills. They wouldn't be from Buffalo.

How many Ravens fans live in Cleveland?

If the Bills ever moved they would no more be the Bills than the LA Clippers are the Buffalo Braves.

[Night Train]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7587788/report-minnesota-vikings-preliminary-agreement-stadium

If this pans out, it's bad news for Buffalo because it puts us one step closer to the top of the list of candidates to move to LA.

No it doesn't.

San Diego, Oakland, St. Louis & Jacksonville are the teams always mentioned as most likely.

[ublinkwescore]

how could you root for the team after it moves. They are the Bills because they are from buffalo, if they move ot LA, they would change the name and it would never be the Bills again.

Even if they did keep the name it still wouldn't be the Bills. if a move to California is all you need, then become a Chargers, Raiders or 49'ers fan, it would be the exact same thing

I know they wouldn't be the Bills any more, but that would still be my team if they moved closer to me - if they move to canada, IDK if I could be a whore for a canadian football team.

[ublinkwescore]

I live in California too...I would hate the "Bills" more than any team in Professional Sports if they moved from Buffalo.

Even more than the patriots/Cowboys/Titans?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Even more than the patriots/Cowboys/Titans?

Yes.

[BertSquirtgum]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7587788/report-minnesota-vikings-preliminary-agreement-stadium

If this pans out, it's bad news for Buffalo because it puts us one step closer to the top of the list of candidates to move to LA.
I could not care less about the Vikings. Bills aren't going anywhere. I wish people would stop making Bills are moving threads, ****ing stupidity at it's best.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

As I've said before, if you are a Bills fan, lived in Buffalo, but moved... you have zero room to not root for the Bills if they move. Chances are, you moved for better opportunities. The Bills would be doing the same. Turning on the Bills because they did the exact same thing you did is class-A hypocrisy.

[better days]

As I've said before, if you are a Bills fan, lived in Buffalo, but moved... you have zero room to not root for the Bills if they move. Chances are, you moved for better opportunities. The Bills would be doing the same. Turning on the Bills because they did the exact same thing you did is class-A hypocrisy.

TOTAL NONSENSE. As I've said before when you made that STUPID statement, the VAST MAJORITY of people that left Buffalo had to do so. Little choice was involved. It was much like the Irish leaving Ireland after the potato famine. As much as they loved Ireland, they loved eating & staying alive more.

If anyone moves the Bills, it won't be because they can't survive in Buffalo. It would be a move of choice, not need.

[better days]

I know they wouldn't be the Bills any more, but that would still be my team if they moved closer to me - if they move to canada, IDK if I could be a whore for a canadian football team.

Well, as ddaryl said, why not root for the Chargers, 49ers, or Raiders they are already close to you.

You can make any team your team if you so choose. I made the Tampa Bay Buccaneers my team when I moved from Buffalo because the Bucs & Fins were the only teams I could see on Sundays. But the Bills always were & always will be the team I LOVE.................unless they move, then it would be like a lover that died, because the Bills would be dead.

[YardRat]

I just thanked Hurkey for one of his posts and not his avatar.

Thought it was significant enough to point it out.

[OpIv37]

I could not care less about the Vikings. Bills aren't going anywhere. I wish people would stop making Bills are moving threads, ****ing stupidity at it's best.

It'll be stupidity once we get a stadium lease and a new owner committed to keeping the team in Buffalo.

Until then, it's a realistic possibility.

But, then again, people on this website have always taken the "shoot the messenger" approach when it comes to being realistic, so posts like yours don't surprise me at all.

[BertSquirtgum]

Ralph made a deal with the devil and is going to live to break the world record for oldness.

[better days]

It'll be stupidity once we get a stadium lease and a new owner committed to keeping the team in Buffalo.

Until then, it's a realistic possibility.

But, then again, people on this website have always taken the "shoot the messenger" approach when it comes to being realistic, so posts like yours don't surprise me at all.

Sometimes the messenger deserves to be shot.

[DraftBoy]

Sometimes the messenger deserves to be shot.

Nevermind misread that...

[YardRat]

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-04/D9U6GBUG0.htm

Gov. Mark Dayton and other supporters of the Minnesota Vikings' bid to build a taxpayer-subsidized new stadium are facing long odds in keeping the proposal alive at Minnesota's Capitol now that a House committee voted to reject it.

The House Government Operations Committee voted 9-6 against the stadium bill on Monday night. It was a major blow the team's decadelong effort to secure a replacement for the Metrodome.

The legislative session is expected finish up before the end of April, and the stadium bill's House sponsor says getting the bill through will be like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. A Vikings spokesman says the team is "extremely disappointed" at the committee vote.

I hope they change the name away from Vikings when they move to LA.

[YardRat]

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/148022185.html

The National Football League said Wednesday the Minnesota Vikings' chances of getting public money for a new stadium appears to have reached a stalemate, and that the league's commissioner is ready to tell Gov. Mark Dayton which other cities were willing to have the team.

With the stadium's chances at the state Capitol sinking by the hour, Dayton on Wednesday gave a "sobering" assessment to the league of the failed attempt to move the nearly $1 billion stadium plan forward.

After that conversation, the NFL issued some of its strongest comments on the impasse and the possibility that Vikings owner Zygi Wilf might sell the team.

"This was portrayed as having support and likely to pass as recently as a couple of weeks ago," said Eric Grubman, the league's executive vice president of business operations. "So this will come as quite a blow. This is quite a blow.

"There are plenty of willing buyers. I think the Wilfs do not want to sell the franchise, but I think there is a point where they probably would be open-minded," he added. "I would not be surprised if [NFL commissioner Roger Goodell] tells the governor, if he asks, what other cities are interested."

[Skooby]

LA Vikings, it makes sense. It probably happened many centuries ago & they're by the water.

[Goobylal]

Stop with the "the Bills move to the top of the LA list" foolishness.

[DrGraves]

As much as I'd love to see the Bills stay in Western NY, if they have to move, I'd be absolutely thrilled to hear they moved out here to California... with them being closer, it would make me being able to see them soooo much more easy.

They certainly wouldn't be the bills anymore..

[gr8slayer]

This entire thread is exactly why the Bills need a new stadium. Not a refurbish of the Ralph, not an upgrade of the Ralph, an entirely new stadium. You slap a thirty year lease on a new stadium, and invest upwards of $500 million - $1 billion, and you won't hear the words "Bills" and "moving" uttered in the same sentence for another thirty years.

[jamze132]

As Romney would have said...

"Umm, woops."

[tampabay25690]

This entire thread is exactly why the Bills need a new stadium. Not a refurbish of the Ralph, not an upgrade of the Ralph, an entirely new stadium. You slap a thirty year lease on a new stadium, and invest upwards of $500 million - $1 billion, and you won't hear the words "Bills" and "moving" uttered in the same sentence for another thirty years.

I think you are 100% right.
There is so much they need to look at that.

Obviously location is #1.
What will it do to the tailgate experience.
Traffic patterns.
PSL'S
Here is the issue if the Bills build a new stadium, most likely they will want FAT $$$ from the season ticket holders for licensing.

If that happens then you may see a huge drop in season tickets.
Like myself I own season tickets but go to 1 game a year, I give tickets to friends and family because its very affordable for tickets with the Bills....
I use as a Buisness write off.
But if they have licensing fees I would have to back out.....

People still ***** about the price, and they have no idea what is costs in other cities....It would get worse in $$.

[BLeonard]

I touched on this story here: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=211504

People can ***** about the prices all they want. The fact of the matter is, the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. Until there comes a time that the demand is less than the supply (in other words, people stop buying tickets) the price of the supply is going to get higher and higher.

Bottom line is, if the city of Buffalo wants to have a team in a multi-billion dollar business, sooner or later, they will have to pay the price of having it, or some other city will.

-Bill

[Extremebillsfan247]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7587788/report-minnesota-vikings-preliminary-agreement-stadium

If this pans out, it's bad news for Buffalo because it puts us one step closer to the top of the list of candidates to move to LA. It appears that deal has fallen apart. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/goodell-tells-minnesota-governor-failure-to-pass-stadium-bill-will-trigger-serious-consequences/
Now, the State of Minnesota has a stern warning straight from the NFL Commissioner. Check this out.

[Dr. Who]

Well, Buffalo needs to address the stadium issue, but honestly, a week before the draft, just table this kind of talk. Nobody likes a killjoy, especially right before Football Christmas.

[BillsLunaticEZE]

The Vikings, like the Bills aren't the teams destined to be there. San Deigo is by far the more realistic team to move.

[better days]

I touched on this story here: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=211504

People can ***** about the prices all they want. The fact of the matter is, the NFL is a multi-billion dollar business. Until there comes a time that the demand is less than the supply (in other words, people stop buying tickets) the price of the supply is going to get higher and higher.

Bottom line is, if the city of Buffalo wants to have a team in a multi-billion dollar business, sooner or later, they will have to pay the price of having it, or some other city will.

-Bill

Well, I just read an article about how much the 49ers want to charge for PSLs for their new Stadium & well as the cost of the seat itself.

Season ticket holders that have had GOOD seats for years will no longer be able to afford them.

When the new Stadium was built in Tampa, people that had seats on the 50 ydln were forced to pay double what they used to pay & had their seats moved from the 50 to the 20 ydln.

[BLeonard]

Well, I just read an article about how much the 49ers want to charge for PSLs for their new Stadium & well as the cost of the seat itself.

Season ticket holders that have had GOOD seats for years will no longer be able to afford them.

When the new Stadium was built in Tampa, people that had seats on the 50 ydln were forced to pay double what they used to pay & had their seats moved from the 50 to the 20 ydln.

That's the cost of today's NFL...

Again, the prices will only go down when they've priced enough people out that it is costing them money. Until that happens, prices will continue to rise. Basic economics.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

Well, Buffalo needs to address the stadium issue, but honestly, a week before the draft, just table this kind of talk. Nobody likes a killjoy, especially right before Football Christmas.

if the draft is Football Christmas, Bills fans must have been really naughty because we get a LOT of coal in our stockings.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It'll be stupidity once we get a stadium lease and a new owner committed to keeping the team in Buffalo.

Until then, it's a realistic possibility.

But, then again, people on this website have always taken the "shoot the messenger" approach when it comes to being realistic, so posts like yours don't surprise me at all.
Only because you don't have a message of any substance. Just what you personally think in your head.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Minnesota is currently in danger of losing its football team. As far as Buffalo is concerned, the Bills are safe. They are not going anywhere any time soon. There's a better chance of Bigfoot showing up in your front yard than the Bills have of moving to L.A. JMO

[better days]

That's the cost of today's NFL...

Again, the prices will only go down when they've priced enough people out that it is costing them money. Until that happens, prices will continue to rise. Basic economics.

-Bill

True, but for Bills fans that want to continue to be able to go to games and sit where they do now, at a reasonable price, it is in their best interest to postpone a new stadium until they are too old to go anymore.

I think a major upgrade of the Ralph is the best answer myself for now, but if a new Stadium is built at a different location, it should be between Buffalo & Rochester, NOT in Downtown Buffalo IMO.

[OpIv37]

Only because you don't have a message of any substance. Just what you personally think in your head.

The NFL wants a team in LA, and there are only about 4 realistic possibilities of teams that could move, one of which is Buffalo.

The Bills don't have a stadium lease past this year.

The Bills have an owner who won't be around much longer, and as far as we know, there is no succession plan in place to keep the team in Buffalo.

This is the reality, not something I invented in my head. And speaking of heads, you'd see this if you'd pull yours out of your ass.

[BLeonard]

Minnesota is currently in danger of losing its football team. As far as Buffalo is concerned, the Bills are safe. They are not going anywhere any time soon. There's a better chance of Bigfoot showing up in your front yard than the Bills have of moving to L.A. JMO

I don't know about you, but before Free agency started, I would have said that there is a better chance of Bigfoot showing up in my front yard than the Bills signing Mario Williams... That door swings both ways.

Here's what we know:

1: The Bills' lease is up in February 2013.
2: The NFL wants a team (or two) in the LA market BADLY.
3: The Bills owner is over 90 years old.

While I personally don't think the Bills will move, I certainly don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility, especially if there is not a new lease agreement before February 2013, or Ralph Wilson dies, or both.

My issue is, if you give the Bills the $200 mil to renovate, you're looking at probably a 10 year lease, before going through all of this again, probably with a new owner... An owner who might not be as inclined to keep the Bills in WNY as Wilson has been. Also, judging by the last lease, it wouldn't have been a big issue for the Bills to get out of it, if they had wanted to.

Look at it this way: the Vikings owner is putting up like $450 million of HIS OWN MONEY for a new stadium in Minnesota and STILL can't get approval. You think the new Bills owner will be willing to do the same? Even if he does, do you think NYS will approve it 10 years down the road?

Like it or not, there's still a LOT of moving parts to lock down before the Bills' future in Buffalo is at a point that could be considered "secure."

-Bill

[justasportsfan]

As much as I'd love to see the Bills stay in Western NY, if they have to move, I'd be absolutely thrilled to hear they moved out here to California... with them being closer, it would make me being able to see them soooo much more easy.

but they won' be the bills anymore. They could be the California Earthquakes or surfers.

[psubills62]

I thought I had read that the LA deal in general was falling through? Must be imagining things.

Anyway, thought this was an interesting tweet, though I have no idea who this guy is:


Word is Minn. isn't on LA radar bc NFL considers them legacy team & move endangers antitrust exemption. If true same should apply to #Bills
http://twitter.com/#!/MattRichWarren/statuses/192791176515026948

[better days]

I don't know about you, but before Free agency started, I would have said that there is a better chance of Bigfoot showing up in my front yard than the Bills signing Mario Williams... That door swings both ways.

Here's what we know:

1: The Bills' lease is up in February 2013.
2: The NFL wants a team (or two) in the LA market BADLY.
3: The Bills owner is over 90 years old.

While I personally don't think the Bills will move, I certainly don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility, especially if there is not a new lease agreement before February 2013, or Ralph Wilson dies, or both.

My issue is, if you give the Bills the $200 mil to renovate, you're looking at probably a 10 year lease, before going through all of this again, probably with a new owner... An owner who might not be as inclined to keep the Bills in WNY as Wilson has been. Also, judging by the last lease, it wouldn't have been a big issue for the Bills to get out of it, if they had wanted to.

Look at it this way: the Vikings owner is putting up like $450 million of HIS OWN MONEY for a new stadium in Minnesota and STILL can't get approval. You think the new Bills owner will be willing to do the same? Even if he does, do you think NYS will approve it 10 years down the road?

Like it or not, there's still a LOT of moving parts to lock down before the Bills' future in Buffalo is at a point that could be considered "secure."

-Bill

Well, we also know
1) The Bills & the County are about to negotiate a new lease.
2) LA has no Stadium & it will be as difficult to get one built there as it is in Minn.
3) MANY people today live to be older than 100 years old.

[BLeonard]

I thought I had read that the LA deal in general was falling through? Must be imagining things.

Anyway, thought this was an interesting tweet, though I have no idea who this guy is:


http://twitter.com/#!/MattRichWarren/statuses/192791176515026948

Tell that to Cleveland in 1995... Apparently, they weren't a "Legacy Team."

I would, however, love to know which teams are considered "Legacy Teams" and which aren't...

-Bill

[better days]

Tell that to Cleveland in 1995... Apparently, they weren't a "Legacy Team."

I would, however, love to know which teams are considered "Legacy Teams" and which aren't...

-Bill

I would say the Jags, Panthers, Texans, Titans, Indy Colts are not legacy teams myself.

And even though Cleveland lost their team for a while, the City of Cleveland kept the history, colors, name of the Browns intact.

[OpIv37]

Well, we also know
1) The Bills & the County are about to negotiate a new lease.
2) LA has no Stadium & it will be as difficult to get one built there as it is in Minn.
3) MANY people today live to be older than 100 years old.

This is not entirely correct.

1. The Bills & county are working on a lease but nothing is definite. They may not agree, or they may come up with something short term to buy time to try to work out larger issues.

2. It will be easier to get a stadium done in LA than Minnesota because of more private money and preliminary approval that has already been granted.

3. Yes, people live over 100 but Ralph is 93 (give or take a year- I don't remember exactly) and has had some well-known health problems in the last couple of years. For anyone sadistic enough to bet on life or death, the smart money's on death.

Granted, none of this is definite and there are a lot of variables that are going to affect this situation, but the point remains that the Bills moving is a legitimate possibility and a legitimate topic of discussion until a new stadium deal and/or a new owner committed to Buffalo come around.

[BLeonard]

I would say the Jags, Panthers, Texans, Titans, Indy Colts are not legacy teams myself.

And even though Cleveland lost their team for a while, the City of Cleveland kept the history, colors, name of the Browns intact.

Well, the Titans were originally the Oilers, which started in 1960, just like the Bills. You're saying the simple fact that they moved means they aren't a "Legacy Team?"

Same deal with the Colts... They started in Baltimore in 1953, before the Bills. Again, moving cancels out a "legacy?" The Colts have all of the Baltimore history, colors and name associated with the Colts, so wouldn't that be the same as the Cleveland situation?

Why would you consider the Ravens a "Legacy Team?" They've been around less than the Indy Colts and only one year more than the Tennessee Titans.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just saying, what you or I would consider a "Legacy" team doesn't necessarily mean that the NFL would agree. Finding out which teams are not considered "Legacy" teams by the NFL would definitely shed some light on which teams they feel are expendable (or relocatable) IMO.

My guess is, whether the NFL considers a team a "Legacy" team or not, they won't hesitate to move a "Legacy" team if that team is losing money or even at the state of not making enough money. Money > "Legacy"

-Bill

[better days]

This is not entirely correct.

1. The Bills & county are working on a lease but nothing is definite. They may not agree, or they may come up with something short term to buy time to try to work out larger issues.

2. It will be easier to get a stadium done in LA than Minnesota because of more private money and preliminary approval that has already been granted.

3. Yes, people live over 100 but Ralph is 93 (give or take a year- I don't remember exactly) and has had some well-known health problems in the last couple of years. For anyone sadistic enough to bet on life or death, the smart money's on death.

Granted, none of this is definite and there are a lot of variables that are going to affect this situation, but the point remains that the Bills moving is a legitimate possibility and a legitimate topic of discussion until a new stadium deal and/or a new owner committed to Buffalo come around.

Nothing is set in stone, but everything I said in my post is CORRECT.

More private money may be involved in LA, but it will also cost more money to build a Stadium there & Cal is a bankrupt State.

I will not believe a new Stadium is built there until I see it go up.

[better days]

Well, the Titans were originally the Oilers, which started in 1960, just like the Bills. You're saying the simple fact that they moved means they aren't a "Legacy Team?"

Same deal with the Colts... They started in Baltimore in 1953, before the Bills. Again, moving cancels out a "legacy?" The Colts have all of the Baltimore history, colors and name associated with the Colts, so wouldn't that be the same as the Cleveland situation?

Why would you consider the Ravens a "Legacy Team?" They've been around less than the Indy Colts and only one year more than the Tennessee Titans.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just saying, what you or I would consider a "Legacy" team doesn't necessarily mean that the NFL would agree. Finding out which teams are not considered "Legacy" teams by the NFL would definitely shed some light on which teams they feel are expendable (or relocatable) IMO.

My guess is, whether the NFL considers a team a "Legacy" team or not, they won't hesitate to move a "Legacy" team if that team is losing money or even at the state of not making enough money. Money > "Legacy"

-Bill

Yes, the fact the Colts & Oilers moved means they are no longer legacy teams & you can throw the Ravens in there as well.

The Colts were moved in the middle of the night by the Irseys & the City of Baltimore dropped the ball on that.

Cleveland saw what happened to Baltimore & was able to retain the Browns heritage for the City of Cleveland.

I have no idea why Houston did not try to do the same.

[BLeonard]

Yes, the fact the Colts & Oilers moved means they are no longer legacy teams & you can throw the Ravens in there as well.

The Colts were moved in the middle of the night by the Irseys & the City of Baltimore dropped the ball on that.

Cleveland saw what happened to Baltimore & was able to retain the Browns heritage for the City of Cleveland.

I have no idea why Houston did not try to do the same.

OK, so, if we're taking moving into account, you can say the Raiders, Chargers, Chiefs, Rams and Cardinals... I might even be missing ateam or two...

Are they not legacy teams as well?

See how this could become a slippery slope of what is a "legacy" team and what isn't?

That's why I said I'd like to know the NFL's definition, given the context of the tweet that implies that the NFL doesn't want to move what they consider "legacy" teams.

-Bill

[stuckincincy]

In an honest world, the NFL gets indicted for attempted extortion and conspiracy. :pimped:

[better days]

OK, so, if we're taking moving into account, you can say the Raiders, Chargers, Chiefs, Rams and Cardinals... I might even be missing ateam or two...

Are they not legacy teams as well?

See how this could become a slippery slope of what is a "legacy" team and what isn't?

That's why I said I'd like to know the NFL's definition, given the context of the tweet that implies that the NFL doesn't want to move what they consider "legacy" teams.

-Bill

This is just my opinion, but I think the Raiders regained their legacy status when they moved back to Oakland.

The Chiefs & Chargers were still in the AFL when they moved so I think they are Legacy teams as well.

I would agree the Rams & Cardnals are not legacy teams.

[Night Train]

The Bills lease has been up EVERY YEAR since Dennis Gorski was our county executive 3 terms ago. They had a low yearly buyout of 10-20 Mil, allowing them to up and move each and every year, if they pleased. THe Bills haven't been locked in to anything in years.

And yet I see a schedule out for games being played at OBD once again...

[Skooby]

There's a chance that the world ends Dec. 2012, which is about as likely as the Bills moving. Either way, no one here will effect the outcome.

[BLeonard]

This is just my opinion, but I think the Raiders regained their legacy status when they moved back to Oakland.

The Chiefs & Chargers were still in the AFL when they moved so I think they are Legacy teams as well.

I would agree the Rams & Cardnals are not legacy teams.

That's fine. While I respect your opinion and think you're probably on the right track, I think we both know that the NFL would consider the Raiders a "legacy" team, whether they moved to LA and back or not. The ONLY place the Raiders would be moved is back to LA, which just so happens to be the most talked about place to move to.

It's kind of odd that, the reason Al Davis moved the Raiders to LA in the first place was because the NFL promised to help get a new Stadium in LA... Of course, that never happened. When Oakland renovated the Alameda County Coliseum, Al jumped at the first chance to go back to Oakland.

What I'm saying is, I don't think the NFL says "well this team moved, so they're not a 'legacy' team." That's simply not one of their criteria. Even if it was, I believe the ability to make (or not lose) money would trump the whole "Legacy" moniker.

My guess would be, if there were issues with Lambeau Field, or securing funds to renovate/retrofit it, the NFL would be giving Green Bay the same threats that Minnesota is getting, legacy be damned...

Of course, they can't do that to Green Bay, since they're publicly owned... But, it certainly explains why the NFL made sure that no other team could benefit like that... Teams being publicly owned would greatly diminish the NFL's ability to play the "Relocation" card.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

The Bills lease has been up EVERY YEAR since Dennis Gorski was our county executive 3 terms ago. They had a low yearly buyout of 10-20 Mil, allowing them to up and move each and every year, if they pleased. THe Bills haven't been locked in to anything in years.

And yet I see a schedule out for games being played at OBD once again...


Actually, the buyout of the lease was $10 million in 2008 and has decreased by 2 Million every year since... The 2012 buyout was a meager $2 million.

While you're technically right that the Bills haven't been locked into anything, you have to realize that part of that security is due to Ralph Wilson being at the age he is (and was at the time the lease was agreed upon). While Wilson might not have been willing to pay, say $10 mil back in 2008 to get out of the lease, the same certainly shouldn't be assumed for a new, younger owner, who likely will have invested about a billion dollars just to buy the team. $10 million to a younger person (or group of people) who just spent a billion is a lot less than it is to a 93 year old who paid $25K for the franchise and has been profiting off of it since 1960.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

The Bills lease has been up EVERY YEAR since Dennis Gorski was our county executive 3 terms ago. They had a low yearly buyout of 10-20 Mil, allowing them to up and move each and every year, if they pleased. THe Bills haven't been locked in to anything in years.

And yet I see a schedule out for games being played at OBD once again...

Ralph has said he wouldn't move the team while he was alive and he has stood by that. Also, keep in mind that, despite Mario Williams, the old man does not part with money easily. He wouldn't just fork over $10 million to break the lease unless there was a damn good reason.

The problem is that Ralph is in poor health and his family has no intention of running the team (and probably couldn't afford it even if they were interested.

Yes, there is a schedule at OBD this year because a) we still have a lease for this year, b) Ralph is still alive, and c) there is no stadium in LA yet.

The stadium deal ends this year and may or may not be renewed. The stadium in LA is in progress and will eventually get done. Ralph will eventually die. So, none of the things currently keeping the Bills in Buffalo are definite moving forward.

[OpIv37]

There's a chance that the world ends Dec. 2012, which is about as likely as the Bills moving. Either way, no one here will effect the outcome.

If you think the chance of the Bills moving is the same as the chance of the world ending in December, then I have some magic beans to sell you.

[Skooby]

If you think the chance of the Bills moving is the same as the chance of the world ending in December, then I have some magic beans to sell you.

Bills aren't going anywhere / anytime in the next 30 years, neither is the world.
That Mayan calendar was misread & is off by a long-time, so keep yer' britches on.

[OpIv37]

Bills aren't going anywhere / anytime in the next 30 years, neither is the world.
That Mayan calendar was misread & is off by a long-time, so keep yer' britches on.

You're right about the Mayans.

You don't know about the Bills. There are a lot of variables in play and the future of the team is impossible to predict at this point.

[Skooby]

You're right about the Mayans.

You don't know about the Bills. There are a lot of variables in play and the future of the team is impossible to predict at this point.

Big cash eliminates nearly all variables, just keep that in your hip pocket.

[OpIv37]

Big cash eliminates nearly all variables, just keep that in your hip pocket.

Lots of people outside of Buffalo have big cash. That's the problem.

[Skooby]

Lots of people outside of Buffalo have big cash. That's the problem.

The team isn't already located there, so it starts in Buffalo. Schumer has already F-Ed with the NFL over their cozy business situation. Go Chuck !!

[BillyT92679]

You're right about the Mayans.

You don't know about the Bills. There are a lot of variables in play and the future of the team is impossible to predict at this point.
and I just don't think it's a fait accompli that they move

Conversely though I'd rather NOT do the renovation of the Ralph and go all in on a new stadium with a very restrictive Jaguars like lease. The Bills can talk all they want about "the market won't support that" and within that alleged truism is also the very real idea that they can get out of the area as soon as Ralph dies.

Renovating is kicking the can down the road, even if it does buy SOME time.

[gr8slayer]

I think you are 100% right.
There is so much they need to look at that.

Obviously location is #1.
What will it do to the tailgate experience.
Traffic patterns.
PSL'S
Here is the issue if the Bills build a new stadium, most likely they will want FAT $$$ from the season ticket holders for licensing.

If that happens then you may see a huge drop in season tickets.
Like myself I own season tickets but go to 1 game a year, I give tickets to friends and family because its very affordable for tickets with the Bills....
I use as a Buisness write off.
But if they have licensing fees I would have to back out.....

People still ***** about the price, and they have no idea what is costs in other cities....It would get worse in $$.Yeah, the pricing in Buffalo is a blessing. My parking at Cowboys Stadium costs more for one vehicle than it would cost me to get two seats at the Ralph. I can't imagine that a new stadium would change that much for Buffalo. Hell, even goin from Texas Stadium to Cowboys Stadium only raised the cost a hundred bucks a year, and there hasn't been an increase since opening year.

[PromoTheRobot]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7587788/report-minnesota-vikings-preliminary-agreement-stadium

If this pans out, it's bad news for Buffalo because it puts us one step closer to the top of the list of candidates to move to LA.

Don't you wish.

PTR

[THATHURMANATOR]

The NFL wants a team in LA, and there are only about 4 realistic possibilities of teams that could move, one of which is Buffalo.

The Bills don't have a stadium lease past this year.

The Bills have an owner who won't be around much longer, and as far as we know, there is no succession plan in place to keep the team in Buffalo.

This is the reality, not something I invented in my head. And speaking of heads, you'd see this if you'd pull yours out of your ass.
You invented it in your head sorry.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I don't know about you, but before Free agency started, I would have said that there is a better chance of Bigfoot showing up in my front yard than the Bills signing Mario Williams... That door swings both ways.

Here's what we know:

1: The Bills' lease is up in February 2013.
2: The NFL wants a team (or two) in the LA market BADLY.
3: The Bills owner is over 90 years old.

While I personally don't think the Bills will move, I certainly don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility, especially if there is not a new lease agreement before February 2013, or Ralph Wilson dies, or both.

My issue is, if you give the Bills the $200 mil to renovate, you're looking at probably a 10 year lease, before going through all of this again, probably with a new owner... An owner who might not be as inclined to keep the Bills in WNY as Wilson has been. Also, judging by the last lease, it wouldn't have been a big issue for the Bills to get out of it, if they had wanted to.

Look at it this way: the Vikings owner is putting up like $450 million of HIS OWN MONEY for a new stadium in Minnesota and STILL can't get approval. You think the new Bills owner will be willing to do the same? Even if he does, do you think NYS will approve it 10 years down the road?

Like it or not, there's still a LOT of moving parts to lock down before the Bills' future in Buffalo is at a point that could be considered "secure."

-BillThe only problem with your prognosis is that L.A. won't be ready to have an NFL franchise until at least 2016. That's at the earliest. Teams moving just isn't as easy as it was back when the Browns moved to Baltimore. Things are probably 10 times more complicated now than they were back then. It takes many levels of approval, and months, if not years to complete a move now. It's just not as simple as a money issue anymore. If the Bills do move, it will most likely be north of the border, not west. JMO

[BLeonard]

The only problem with your prognosis is that L.A. won't be ready to have an NFL franchise until at least 2016. That's at the earliest. Teams moving just isn't as easy as it was back when the Browns moved to Baltimore. Things are probably 10 times more complicated now than they were back then. It takes many levels of approval, and months, if not years to complete a move now. It's just not as simple as a money issue anymore. If the Bills do move, it will most likely be north of the border, not west. JMO

A new stadium in LA? I agree, it's gonna be a few years...

But, if they know they are getting a team out there, there is no reason that they couldn't use the LA Coliseum or the Rose Bowl until the new stadium is ready to go... That's even mentioned as the plan under the LA Stadium proposal by Ed Roski: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Football_Stadium



Jon Semcken III, a representative of Majestic Realty Group of Los Angeles, claimed in December 2009 that the company had a 50% chance of luring at least one existing NFL team to Los Angeles in time for the 2010 season, and that they were certain to have one by 2011. However, no teams moved to L.A. in either of those years. A tenant would have to find a temporary home for at least one season while the stadium is built (Roski will not build the stadium until a team agrees to his deal); possible temporary homes that meet the NFL's seating capacity standards include the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum and the Rose Bowl.


Toronto has no plans or desire to build a new stadium, which would be needed for an NFL team, as the SkyDome is inadequate by NFL standards. The only reason the Bills Toronto Series is allowed is because the Bills received special permission to do so.

Personally, I don't think the Bills are going to go to LA or Toronto, but I also believe that, if they are going to remain in Buffalo, sooner than later, NYS and Erie County are going to have to ante in on a new stadium.

-Bill