Unfathomable

[DesertFox24]

I just can not understand why the Bills are balking at paying Stevie 7.5 to 8 mil a year.

I really hope this gets cleared up here these next two weeks or I will lose all faith in this organization and probably not even watch football anymore.

Being a small market team I understand the we can not spend big on other teams free agents. We have to draft stars, and sign our own players.

I totally buy in that, but if they let their one star walk then Buddy lied to us. Stevie has made it known he wants to stay in Buffalo and if reports are accurate he is looking for around 8 mil, then it is Buffalo being cheap yet again and I can not support anymore.

[BertSquirtgum]

It's because they are the Bills and OBD is full of liars and morons.

[OpIv37]

Remember, Stevie has two big drops that cost us games in 2 years and got penalized multiple times for excessive celebrations. The worst part is that he doesn't seem to be growing beyond these stupid mistakes. It doesn't seem smart to commit that much money to him hoping he'll improve when he hasn't shown it.

The other possibility is that this team just lacks cap room. There has been a lot of debate on this board about how much room they actually have, but they certainly aren't acting like a team that has cap room to spare. Of course, if they don't sign Stevie, they'll just end up spending big money on a WR elsewhere, or creating another hole, so they really aren't saving anything by not paying him. But I'm not sure they have the intelligence to realize that.

[ThunderGun]

I know.

$7.5 is UNDER his market value, IMO. Miles Austin and Sidney Rice just signed contracts paying them over $8 mil per year. Santonio is getting $9. When you consider inflation, I'd say Stevie is definitely worth $8 mil per year.

What's the freaking hold-up?

[YardRat]

I'm thinking he wants more money up front and guaranteed, and the team wants more incentive clauses, specifically protecting them against his possible future antics.

He'll probably walk, which will be unfortunate IMO, and then the threads can start bashing Ralph and the front office for being cheap when it's possible the reality could be the differences are more about terms than dollars.

[Billsouth]

OBD operates with the mindset that we build and rebuild through the draft. We constantly give away talent. For example, Marshawn Lynch trade we got hosed! I am not real pleased with how the Jason Peters trade turned out. Over the recent years we have let guys like Winfield walk. We have cut guys like Jim Leonhard. Who was the last big free agent that we signed? .....TAKEO Spikes.

You cannot win in this league based solely on the draft, especially when our drafts over the last 10 years have been below average. We have wasted 3 first round picks on Qbs, drafted Mike Williams #4, Donte #8 and Aaron Maybin #9. We have drafted guys like Shawn Nelson, Derek Fine and Hardy in the first 3 rounds. They were awful.

We get lucky with Stevie in the 7th which means we have been underpaying him the last 2 years for his production and now we balk at paying even remotely close to market value. We are quickly becoming the worst franchise in professional sports. I hate it because I am a lifelong fan but I cannot stand OBD attitude!

We need to recognize that in order to get guys to come to B'lo we need to build a winner again. For the time being that means we have to be prepared to pay a little more than market for some guys. Lets be honest, all things being equal where would you rather play Buffalo or Miami, NE, NY, etc.

[THRILLHO]

How does any one know what Stevie Johnson is really asking for? For all we know he wants 11-12 million a year.

[OpIv37]

OBD operates with the mindset that we build and rebuild through the draft. We constantly give away talent. For example, Marshawn Lynch trade we got hosed! I am not real pleased with how the Jason Peters trade turned out. Over the recent years we have let guys like Winfield walk. We have cut guys like Jim Leonhard. Who was the last big free agent that we signed? .....TAKEO Spikes.

You cannot win in this league based solely on the draft, especially when our drafts over the last 10 years have been below average. We have wasted 3 first round picks on Qbs, drafted Mike Williams #4, Donte #8 and Aaron Maybin #9. We have drafted guys like Shawn Nelson, Derek Fine and Hardy in the first 3 rounds. They were awful.

We get lucky with Stevie in the 7th which means we have been underpaying him the last 2 years for his production and now we balk at paying even remotely close to market value. We are quickly becoming the worst franchise in professional sports. I hate it because I am a lifelong fan but I cannot stand OBD attitude!

We need to recognize that in order to get guys to come to B'lo we need to build a winner again. For the time being that means we have to be prepared to pay a little more than market for some guys. Lets be honest, all things being equal where would you rather play Buffalo or Miami, NE, NY, etc.

I see your point but Miami? They have better weather than us but over the last 10 years, that team's performance is only marginally better than ours, and they had several seasons where they were even worse than us. If you're a football player looking for a chance to win, Miami really isn't any better than Buffalo. It's only better if you want better night life where you can hobknob with celebrities.

[dannyek71]

How does any one know what Stevie Johnson is really asking for? For all we know he wants 11-12 million a year.


Does anyone have a link as to what Steve is really asking for (not speculation)

[stuckincincy]

I just can not understand why the Bills are balking at paying Stevie 7.5 to 8 mil a year.

I really hope this gets cleared up here these next two weeks or I will lose all faith in this organization and probably not even watch football anymore.

Being a small market team I understand the we can not spend big on other teams free agents. We have to draft stars, and sign our own players.

I totally buy in that, but if they let their one star walk then Buddy lied to us. Stevie has made it known he wants to stay in Buffalo and if reports are accurate he is looking for around 8 mil, then it is Buffalo being cheap yet again and I can not support anymore.

The "new" CBA. You can buy a hot rookie cheaper - and they can pay off. See AJ Green, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton etc.

Johnson caught 76 for 1004, 13.2 ypc, 7 tds. Nothing exceptional for a #1 - run of the mill. With the way the rules are now, it doesn't take a lot to amass that total.

He's a decent WR. But I wouldn't franchise him - a WR like him isn't impossible to replace. Nobody with a contract running out on last years' club is such a solid gold ingot that the rest of the league is scratching and clawing to sign.





http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/NFL-rookie-salary-cap-biggest-win-from-new-CBA-less-risk-for-owners-072711

[Fixxxer]

Does anyone have a link as to what Steve is really asking for (not speculation)

We only know what he possibly want as a salary, the number 7.5 or 8 mil per year has been thrown around.

What we don't know from Stevie's camp is how many years he wants in his contract?

What we don't know from Stevie's cam is how much guaranteed money he wants?

I'm not defending the FO by any means, but the information we have right now is insufficient to make a fair judgement of the situation.

[Ickybaluky]

He's a decent WR. But I wouldn't franchise him - a WR like him isn't impossible to replace. Nobody with a contract running out on last years' club is such a solid gold ingot that the rest of the league is scratching and clawing to sign.

I don't get not franchising him. Do you think you are a better team without him?

Peter King pointed out that the teams that have the most cap room in the NFL (TB - $67M, KC - $62M, Cin - $60M, Was - $49M, Den - $49M, Jax - $45M) all have a big need at WR. Thus, when FA starts the WR out there are going to draw bigger than expected offers as teams fill the need for a play-maker on the outside. There is going to be a lot of competition for the top players at that position.

So, if you can't sign Johnson, the Bills have to franchise him to protect their rights. If not, they are bidding against a lot of teams with lots of cap room that are looking for a WR. It makes no sense ot let Johnson go to the market, because it leaves them in a desperate position at WR and a lot of teams with money competing to find one.

[HAMMER]

None of us know what the numbers are so why even speculate, this issue is getting beatin' to death. You'll know soon enough, relax.

[more cowbell]

Does anyone have a link as to what Steve is really asking for (not speculation)

I don't have the exact link but Rotoworld reported yesterday that it was around 9.5 a year.

[more cowbell]

Stupid if they let him go. He is a productive WR who can get in the endzone, and has a good chemistry with our terrible QB.

He's "home-grown" which is what our GM keeps telling us the team is going to be made up of..."our guys"...maybe instead of wasting 4 million a year on Brad Smith we could have used some of that money toward SJ.

This team loves to get rid of players, creating a hole that is usually relied upon to be filled by a rookie or someone like Robert Meachem (just an example)

[alnilla]

You guys would of *****ed and complained if they made the playoffs and raised the tickets another 5 dollars a game this year. I have held seasons for the past 8 years and could careless if they raised them again this year it still would be the cheapest ticket prices in the NFL.

[Ickybaluky]

You guys would of *****ed and complained if they made the playoffs and raised the tickets another 5 dollars a game this year. I have held seasons for the past 8 years and could careless if they raised them again this year it still would be the cheapest ticket prices in the NFL.

Are you saying you don't even care if they try, as long as the tickets stay cheap?

[Meathead]

you just gotta wait to see how it plays out. i still seriously doubt they just let him walk but if they do then they must have a good reason and have a plan in place to replace him. this regime has been right on important things more than any regime since marv and one of the best track records in that regard in club history. not that theyve been right about everything nobody is but theyve been right far more than most fans give them credit for and as far as im concerned theyve earned my patience. i will wait to see what the lineup looks like when the season opens before i start flipping out and then if i dont like it i will be happy to light my hair on fire like youse guys

[OpIv37]

I don't get not franchising him. Do you think you are a better team without him?

Peter King pointed out that the teams that have the most cap room in the NFL (TB - $67M, KC - $62M, Cin - $60M, Was - $49M, Den - $49M, Jax - $45M) all have a big need at WR. Thus, when FA starts the WR out there are going to draw bigger than expected offers as teams fill the need for a play-maker on the outside. There is going to be a lot of competition for the top players at that position.

So, if you can't sign Johnson, the Bills have to franchise him to protect their rights. If not, they are bidding against a lot of teams with lots of cap room that are looking for a WR. It makes no sense ot let Johnson go to the market, because it leaves them in a desperate position at WR and a lot of teams with money competing to find one.

Stevie has us by the balls and he knows it. We can't win with him- we've already proven that. But it is a STEEP drop-off at WR after him. And, as you pointed out, it looks like it'll be a big market for WR's this year.

We're damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[alnilla]

Are you saying you don't even care if they try, as long as the tickets stay cheap?

Um no I didnt

[BLeonard]

You guys would of *****ed and complained if they made the playoffs and raised the tickets another 5 dollars a game this year. I have held seasons for the past 8 years and could careless if they raised them again this year it still would be the cheapest ticket prices in the NFL.

So, because they have the "cheapest ticket prices in the NFL," that gives them the excuse to not re-sign players who perform well, or sign Free Agents in an attempt to improve the team?

You said that you've had season tix for the past 8 years... Answer me this: How many playoff games have you seen? Hell, how many WINNING SEASONS have you seen?

Maybe the reason the tickets are the "cheapest in the NFL" is because the product you're getting isn't NFL caliber... Ever think of that?

Oh, by the way, just so you're aware, on average, tickets for the Browns and Jaguars are cheaper than the Bills, so even with a 12 year playoff drought, they aren't the "cheapest in the NFL."

-Bill

[Billsouth]

I see your point but Miami? They have better weather than us but over the last 10 years, that team's performance is only marginally better than ours, and they had several seasons where they were even worse than us. If you're a football player looking for a chance to win, Miami really isn't any better than Buffalo. It's only better if you want better night life where you can hobknob with celebrities.


where would u rather be if you are a young single man... Miami or Buffalo. I know it sucks but it is true. Factor in that Florida has no state income tax and NY is one of the highest; that you are more likely to get bigger names to miami than Buffalo, etc. Remember, Bills havent made the playoffs in since 1999. These kids nowadays do not remember when the Bills were good.

this is depressing!

[OpIv37]

where would u rather be if you are a young single man... Miami or Buffalo. I know it sucks but it is true. Factor in that Florida has no state income tax and NY is one of the highest; that you are more likely to get bigger names to miami than Buffalo, etc. Remember, Bills havent made the playoffs in since 1999. These kids nowadays do not remember when the Bills were good.

this is depressing!

If I wanted to party, Miami.

If I wanted to win football games, neither.

And I hear what you're saying about the kids. I said in another thread that this team has potentially cost themselves a whole generation of Bills fans with their poor performance, that also came right at the time when technology made it possible to easily follow out of market teams.

[ddaryl]

It will all work out in the end.....

[streetkings01]

Wow........never knew the details of the proposals were available to the public?!?!?!

[streetkings01]

where would u rather be if you are a young single man... Miami or Buffalo. I know it sucks but it is true. Factor in that Florida has no state income tax and NY is one of the highest; that you are more likely to get bigger names to miami than Buffalo, etc. Remember, Bills havent made the playoffs in since 1999. These kids nowadays do not remember when the Bills were good.

this is depressing!If your making over $7 mill per year does it matter? In the offseason you can buy a home and live wherever you want.........you only have to actually live in Buffalo for what......5 months out of the year?

[BertSquirtgum]

You guys would of *****ed and complained if they made the playoffs and raised the tickets another 5 dollars a game this year. I have held seasons for the past 8 years and could careless if they raised them again this year it still would be the cheapest ticket prices in the NFL.

You're in the wrong thread. The lowest ticket prices thread was started earlier today.

[BertSquirtgum]

I didn't see anyone *****ing about ticket prices.

[alnilla]

You're in the wrong thread. The lowest ticket prices thread was started earlier today.

opps two different windows open fml