Luke Kuechly 4.5 40

[kingJofNYC]

Crazy time, always looked good on tape. These linebackers are flying.

6'3" 240, we need range at LB. Move Kelvin to SLB.

May be the BPA at 10.

[X-Era]

Love the player, would have no issue with the pick. I'm not sold on Sheppard as a starting caliber LB anyways.

[JCBills]

Why move Shep? Kuechly might be better outside that him with that type of speed.

Zach Brown's 4.44 at 244 Lbs was wicked impressive. Also impressed with Brahdam's time.

[JCBills]

Just followed it with a 4.78.

[JCBills]

Also good to see Terrell Manning at 237 lbs. 4.63 and 4.75

[kingJofNYC]

Also good to see Terrell Manning at 237 lbs. 4.63 and 4.75
And ran a third time at 4.59.

[DraftBoy]

This thread is why people should stop putting so much weight in the 40 yard dash. He's not even a first round caliber LB, top 10 is insane.

This happens every year.

[DraftBoy]

And ran a third time at 4.59.

I believe you quoted the wrong post, Kuechly was granted a 3rd time not Manning.

[kingJofNYC]

I believe you quoted the wrong post, Kuechly was granted a 3rd time not Manning.

Yeah, you're right.

My bad!

[JCBills]

This thread is why people should stop putting so much weight in the 40 yard dash. He's not even a first round caliber LB, top 10 is insane.

This happens every year.

Oh I wouldn't peg him at #10 either.

I don't put much stock in 40 times. If you look at who ran the fastest 40 by position every year in the past, most people wouldn't know who the players were because they weren't starting or even backup caliber players in the league.

[kingJofNYC]

So he's not even a first round talent.

Seems like he has everyone fooled then.

[DraftBoy]

4.58 the official btw

[methos4ever]

This thread is why people should stop putting so much weight in the 40 yard dash. He's not even a first round caliber LB, top 10 is insane.

This happens every year.
Some of your contemporaries on the twitter see him at a top 12-15 guy DB, I take it you disagree>?

[DraftBoy]

Some of your contemporaries on the twitter see him at a top 12-15 guy DB, I take it you disagree>?

Heavily.

Great tackler in the 3-5 yard zone, but rarely makes plays behind the LOS or at the LOS. In the 43 as a MLB I want a guy who can split the gap and get behind the LOS.

That's not his game and that's why he's not a player I take in the 1st Round. He's a smart, angles player, but he's pure read and react. Limited instincts, he'll be a long term NFL player in the mold of London Fletcher in style.

[utmhead]

Heavily.

Great tackler in the 3-5 yard zone, but rarely makes plays behind the LOS or at the LOS. In the 43 as a MLB I want a guy who can split the gap and get behind the LOS.

That's not his game and that's why he's not a player I take in the 1st Round. He's a smart, angles player, but he's pure read and react. Limited instincts, he'll be a long term NFL player in the mold of London Fletcher in style.


A LOT of teams would have taken London Fletcher at # 10 if they knew he would have been this good. DB and I have disagreed about Kuechly before and still will, but if he is London Fletcher Good, sign me up.

[DraftBoy]

A LOT of teams would have taken London Fletcher at # 10 if they knew he would have been this good. DB and I have disagreed about Kuechly before and still will, but if he is London Fletcher Good, sign me up.

No they wouldn't of. A long term vet who was good but never great? No thanks for a top 10 pick for me. I want difference makers not solid starters.

[Ed]

Heavily.

Great tackler in the 3-5 yard zone, but rarely makes plays behind the LOS or at the LOS. In the 43 as a MLB I want a guy who can split the gap and get behind the LOS.

That's not his game and that's why he's not a player I take in the 1st Round. He's a smart, angles player, but he's pure read and react. Limited instincts, he'll be a long term NFL player in the mold of London Fletcher in style.
And both Nix and Gailey have talked specifically about getting guys on defense that are play-makers and make game changing plays. Kuechley is not that guy. And it's not like he's the first LB to run in the high 4.5's.

Patrick Willis is the kind of MLB you use a top 10 pick on, not kuechley.

[X-Era]

Db. You know I respect your opinion as always.

But:

Scouts Inc (McShay) has him as the 9th best player overall
Kiper has him as the 9th best
Brandt has him at 12 on his hot 100
Mayock has him as a 1st rounder "without a doubt"
Wes Bunting has him at 19


<table class="sortable stats_table" id="defense"><tbody><tr class=" over_header"></tr></tbody><thead><tr class=" over_header"> <th colspan="5" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Tackles</th> <th colspan="5" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Def Int</th> <th colspan="4" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Fumbles</th> </tr> <tr class=""> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="right">Year</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">School</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Conf</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Class</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Pos</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Solo</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Ast</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Tot</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Loss</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Sk</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Int</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Yds</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Avg</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TD</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PD</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FR</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Yds</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TD</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FF</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr data-row="0" class=""> <td align="right">2009 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2009.html)</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/2009.html)</td> <td align="left">ACC (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2009.html)</td> <td align="center">FR</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td align="right">87</td> <td align="right">71</td> <td align="right">158</td> <td align="right">13.0</td> <td align="right">1.0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="right">28.0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> </tr> <tr data-row="1" class=""> <td align="right">2010 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2010.html)</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/2010.html)</td> <td align="left">ACC (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2010.html)</td> <td align="center">SO</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td align="right">110</td> <td align="right">73</td> <td align="right">183</td> <td align="right">10.5</td> <td align="right">1.5</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">10.3</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">2</td> </tr> <tr data-row="2" class=""> <td align="right">2011 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2011.html)</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/2011.html)</td> <td align="left">ACC (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2011.html)</td> <td align="center">JR</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">89</td> <td align="right">191</td> <td align="right">12.0</td> <td align="right">0.0</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">71</td> <td align="right">23.7</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr data-row="3" class="bold_text stat_total"> <td align="right">Career</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/)</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="center">
</td> <td align="center">
</td> <td align="right">299</td> <td align="right">233</td> <td align="right">532</td> <td align="right">35.5</td> <td align="right">2.5</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">130</td> <td align="right">18.6</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">2</td></tr></tfoot></table>
The guy is a 3 year starter, production is through the roof although much of it is a bit down field. The weight was an issue at 237 but now at 242 I'm not concerned. He needs better coverage skills but I like his speed and downfield tackling in that regard as an OLB. In a 4-3, theres more ground to cover as a ILB as well. I like Keuchley better than Sheppard already and I think he would outshine Shepp in production. Is he perfect? No. Recognition could be better and you want more tackles at the LOS. But, the kid can play and has proven it for years. I think he's the first true LB to get drafted and will be drafted mid round 1 to top 10.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/luke-kuechly-had-a-very-good-day/
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-27/2012-nfl-scouting-combine-bc-backer-luke-kuechly-proves-he-can-burn-it-up-with-a

[DraftBoy]

Db. You know I respect your opinion as always.

But:

Scouts Inc (McShay) has him as the 9th best player overall
Kiper has him as the 9th best
Brandt has him at 12 on his hot 100
Mayock has him as a 1st rounder "without a doubt"
Wes Bunting has him at 19


<table class="sortable stats_table" id="defense"><tbody><tr class=" over_header"></tr></tbody><thead><tr class=" over_header"> <th colspan="5" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Tackles</th> <th colspan="5" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Def Int</th> <th colspan="4" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Fumbles</th> </tr> <tr class=""> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="right">Year</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">School</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="left">Conf</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Class</th> <th class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align="center">Pos</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Solo</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Ast</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Tot</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Loss</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Sk</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Int</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Yds</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Avg</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TD</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">PD</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FR</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">Yds</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">TD</th> <th class="tooltip" align="right">FF</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr data-row="0" class=""> <td align="right">2009 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2009.html)</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/2009.html)</td> <td align="left">ACC (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2009.html)</td> <td align="center">FR</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td align="right">87</td> <td align="right">71</td> <td align="right">158</td> <td align="right">13.0</td> <td align="right">1.0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">28</td> <td align="right">28.0</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> </tr> <tr data-row="1" class=""> <td align="right">2010 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2010.html)</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/2010.html)</td> <td align="left">ACC (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2010.html)</td> <td align="center">SO</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td align="right">110</td> <td align="right">73</td> <td align="right">183</td> <td align="right">10.5</td> <td align="right">1.5</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">31</td> <td align="right">10.3</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">2</td> </tr> <tr data-row="2" class=""> <td align="right">2011 (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2011.html)</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/2011.html)</td> <td align="left">ACC (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2011.html)</td> <td align="center">JR</td> <td align="center">LB</td> <td align="right">102</td> <td align="right">89</td> <td align="right">191</td> <td align="right">12.0</td> <td align="right">0.0</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">71</td> <td align="right">23.7</td> <td align="right">1</td> <td align="right">6</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot> <tr data-row="3" class="bold_text stat_total"> <td align="right">Career</td> <td align="left">Boston College (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/boston-college/)</td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="center">
</td> <td align="center">
</td> <td align="right">299</td> <td align="right">233</td> <td align="right">532</td> <td align="right">35.5</td> <td align="right">2.5</td> <td align="right">7</td> <td align="right">130</td> <td align="right">18.6</td> <td align="right">2</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">2</td></tr></tfoot></table>
The guy is a 3 year starter, production is through the roof although much of it is a bit down field. The weight was an issue at 237 but now at 242 I'm not concerned. He needs better coverage skills but I like his speed and downfield tackling in that regard as an OLB. In a 4-3, theres more ground to cover as a ILB as well. I like Keuchley better than Sheppard already and I think he would outshine Shepp in production. Is he perfect? No. Recognition could be better and you want more tackles at the LOS. But, the kid can play and has proven it for years. I think he's the first true LB to get drafted and will be drafted mid round 1 to top 10.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/27/luke-kuechly-had-a-very-good-day/
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-27/2012-nfl-scouting-combine-bc-backer-luke-kuechly-proves-he-can-burn-it-up-with-a

And you know that while I respect those guys immensely I have zero issue disagreeing with them.

[X-Era]

And you know that while I respect those guys immensely I have zero issue disagreeing with them.Also something I like about your posts.

[Raptor]

uuummm no ****ing way I want him at 10

You take a LB at 10 or even in the top 25 he better be putting up identical or better numbers than P.Willis and had better had a college career along the lines of Willis along with that a Im going to kick the **** out of you attitude none of which I see out of this Kuechly kid

[jpdex12]

Heavily.

Great tackler in the 3-5 yard zone, but rarely makes plays behind the LOS or at the LOS. In the 43 as a MLB I want a guy who can split the gap and get behind the LOS.

That's not his game and that's why he's not a player I take in the 1st Round. He's a smart, angles player, but he's pure read and react. Limited instincts, he'll be a long term NFL player in the mold of London Fletcher in style.

I don't see us drafting him at #10 but I think your assessment is too critical and most of those professional scouts who are now analysts formajor networks that you disagree with probably feel that he was placed in a defensive scheme with BC that didn't have him blitzing a lot. I'm not sure of BC's def schemes because I don't watch many of their games but if a backer isn' tblitzing much then yes he's going to make plays in that 3-5 yard range. Only going to make plays behind the LOS if he's blitzing or jamming a hole. If he isn't blitzing and continually makes plays behnid the LOS when playing 4-5 yards off the LOS at the begining of each play then the RBs he's playing against shouldn't be in D1 football games.

nfl.com
<SECTION>
Overview

Kuechly had one of the most productive careers, in terms of tackles, in recent memory for a collegiate linebacker. Kuechly blew away the competition as the top tackler in the nation with a jaw-dropping 191 total. Many knock that most of his plays were downfield tackles and not "influential" enough, but 12 tackles for loss is a testament to his overall ability and instincts to get in the backfield and disrupt plays. He is more of an athlete than given credit for and has simply been a machine throughout his college career. Kuechly has all the tools to be an immediate starter in the NFL and shore up the middle of an entire defense.
</SECTION><SECTION>Analysis

<ARTICLE>Strengths

Kuechly is one of the most instinctual and technically sound linebackers to enter the draft in years, and he had the tackle production throughout his career to back it up. He is able to avoid trash at his knees and is elite when it comes to shedding blockers and keeping himself free to the ball. He is excellent working over the top of tight ends to maul and delay their release, and is capable of running with them in-phase down the field. He has the sudden burst and long speed to cover a very wide range against the run and is an extremely sure-handed tackler who can bring ball carriers down a number of different ways. </ARTICLE><ARTICLE>
Weaknesses

The major knock on Kuechly is that he had a lot of "inflated" tackle production throughout his career, the idea being that he is indeed a superb tackler but most of those tackles came 5 to 8 yards downfield in pursuit. He didn't get up into the line of scrimmage to make powerful, impactful plays much, and won't be relied upon as a pass rusher at the next level and is strictly a tackling, sideline-to-sideline backer.

There's probably a reason why these guys are getting paid a lot more than we are to opine on players we don't get to see much of and evaluate for hours every day...if you can read and react then you have instincts. If you are good at reading and recognizing then your instinct ability is part of the reaction and is level with the rest. Being able to read and recognize leads to solid instincts. I don't see how you can be good at reading and recognizing and have poor instincts.

[jpdex12]

Every white linebacker us Bills fans analyze now gets the Poz stereotype? I think the Sean Lee comparison is a lot closer.

[JCBills]

Every white linebacker us Bills fans analyze now gets the Poz stereotype? I think the Sean Lee comparison is a lot closer.

Despite what negative fans think Poz made a lot of plays at or close to the LOS.

[CleveSteve]

Every white linebacker us Bills fans analyze now gets the Poz stereotype? I think the Sean Lee comparison is a lot closer.

You're right. He's way more like that other white LB.

Leading anything in tackles as a MLB means they run a lot of plays against your defense. Which means you probably aren't stopping anybody in the run game. Which usually means your MLB isn't getting the job done.

Just sayin'.

[DraftBoy]

I don't see us drafting him at #10 but I think your assessment is too critical and most of those professional scouts who are now analysts formajor networks that you disagree with probably feel that he was placed in a defensive scheme with BC that didn't have him blitzing a lot. I'm not sure of BC's def schemes because I don't watch many of their games but if a backer isn' tblitzing much then yes he's going to make plays in that 3-5 yard range. Only going to make plays behind the LOS if he's blitzing or jamming a hole. If he isn't blitzing and continually makes plays behnid the LOS when playing 4-5 yards off the LOS at the begining of each play then the RBs he's playing against shouldn't be in D1 football games.

nfl.com
<SECTION>
Overview

Kuechly had one of the most productive careers, in terms of tackles, in recent memory for a collegiate linebacker. Kuechly blew away the competition as the top tackler in the nation with a jaw-dropping 191 total. Many knock that most of his plays were downfield tackles and not "influential" enough, but 12 tackles for loss is a testament to his overall ability and instincts to get in the backfield and disrupt plays. He is more of an athlete than given credit for and has simply been a machine throughout his college career. Kuechly has all the tools to be an immediate starter in the NFL and shore up the middle of an entire defense.
</SECTION><SECTION>Analysis

<ARTICLE>Strengths

Kuechly is one of the most instinctual and technically sound linebackers to enter the draft in years, and he had the tackle production throughout his career to back it up. He is able to avoid trash at his knees and is elite when it comes to shedding blockers and keeping himself free to the ball. He is excellent working over the top of tight ends to maul and delay their release, and is capable of running with them in-phase down the field. He has the sudden burst and long speed to cover a very wide range against the run and is an extremely sure-handed tackler who can bring ball carriers down a number of different ways. </ARTICLE><ARTICLE>
Weaknesses

The major knock on Kuechly is that he had a lot of "inflated" tackle production throughout his career, the idea being that he is indeed a superb tackler but most of those tackles came 5 to 8 yards downfield in pursuit. He didn't get up into the line of scrimmage to make powerful, impactful plays much, and won't be relied upon as a pass rusher at the next level and is strictly a tackling, sideline-to-sideline backer.

There's probably a reason why these guys are getting paid a lot more than we are to opine on players we don't get to see much of and evaluate for hours every day...if you can read and react then you have instincts. If you are good at reading and recognizing then your instinct ability is part of the reaction and is level with the rest. Being able to read and recognize leads to solid instincts. I don't see how you can be good at reading and recognizing and have poor instincts.

Only one point in that disagrees with what I said and it barely touches on it.

The best LB's in the game have the best instincts, they know where the ball is going almost before the snap. They don't have to see the pulling guard or the trapping OC to know where the hole is. They are able to fill it before it even opens, Kuechly however doesn't have that. He has to sit back and wait that extra second. While that's not a lot of time at all it still is the difference between a RB being stopped for a loss or no gain and a RB picking up 3-4 yards or the FB having time to get through the hole and put a block on you.

I don't know why people think, I think Kuechly sucks, I don't. I just don't think he's the caliber of LB that warrants a 1st Round pick. I said the same thing about Poz the year he came out and Kuechly is without a doubt better.

[jpdex12]

Only one point in that disagrees with what I said and it barely touches on it.

The best LB's in the game have the best instincts, they know where the ball is going almost before the snap. They don't have to see the pulling guard or the trapping OC to know where the hole is. They are able to fill it before it even opens, Kuechly however doesn't have that. He has to sit back and wait that extra second. While that's not a lot of time at all it still is the difference between a RB being stopped for a loss or no gain and a RB picking up 3-4 yards or the FB having time to get through the hole and put a block on you.

I don't know why people think, I think Kuechly sucks, I don't. I just don't think he's the caliber of LB that warrants a 1st Round pick. I said the same thing about Poz the year he came out and Kuechly is without a doubt better.

And Poz went just into the 2nd round...so Kueckly is a 1st rounder if he's a bit better?

[tampabay25690]

This thread is why people should stop putting so much weight in the 40 yard dash. He's not even a first round caliber LB, top 10 is insane.

This happens every year.

DB you know he will be gone in the 1 st round