Shuttle and Arm length

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  • Cali512
    Registered User
    • Jan 2012
    • 6393

    Shuttle and Arm length

    These are 2 very important things in getting a DE. Theres alot of arm work and balance involved, a player with a fast shuttle can you his arms to move side to side and around things, and the arm length helps when knowing a player can keep a OL hands off him. This allows the player to swipe away at a players hands with a good ammount of speed as he moves around the OT.


    If a player has long arms but no agility and isnt fluid running, then the arms wont matter because the OT will be quick enough to stay in front. But a player like Ingram who has small arms but is quick, will possibly be able to at times run around the OT, but most likely the tackle will push him around. Players with a shuttle time and good arm length can do both

    Players who have been successful that have good at these numbers

    Aldon Smith- 35 3/8 arm length, shuttle 4.49
    Justin Tuck- 33 1/4 arm lenth, shuttle 4.29
    Mario Williams- 33 7/8 arm length. shuttle 4.37
    Von Miller- 33 1/2 arm length, shuttle 4.06
    Demarcus Ware- 34 arm length, shuttle 4.27
    Jason Pierre Paul- 34 3/4 arm length, shuttle 4.67
    Connor Barwin- 33 3/4 arm length, shuttle 4.18



    Notice the players with big arms, dont need the speed
    But the players with long but decent length have speed


    Here are some busts


    Vernon gholston- 32 1/8 arm length, 4.41 shuttle
    Robert Ayers- 33 arms, 4.51 shuttle
    Everette Brown- 33 arms, 4.53
    Larry English- 32 3/4 arm length, 4.4 shuttle

    Every player has 33 inch or under arms and no more than 4.4 shuttle. These are all busts of the past 5 years.



    Now you see all these good players have 33+ length arms, and shuttle mostly around 4.4 and under

    In the draft these players share similarities

    Jack Crawford 33 1/2 arms, 4.25 shuttle- 5th round pick, 6.5 sacks Pen state
    Justin Francis 33 7/8 arms, 4.35 shuttle 7th round pick, 6.5 sacks Rudgers
    Bruce Irvin 33 3/8 arms, 4.03 shuttle 2nd, 8 sacks 2012, 2010 14 sacks
    Cam Johnson 33 1/2 arms, 4.38 shuttle- 2nd, 4 sacks 2012
    Chandler Jones 35 3/8 arms, 4.38 shuttle- 2nd, 2 sacks 2012
    Andre Branch 34 arms, 4.25 2nd, 9 sacks 2012


    Chandler Jones has been my favorite for a while because of his length of arms and the fact that with a little teaching of new moves, i think he can be dominant. Bruce Irvin is a player i like if we were in a 3-4, but if he drops for whatever reason to 3rd and we still havent gotten a passrusher, move him to DE and see what he can do. Cam Johnson is someone i didnt know till i made this, but i watched the film of him and i like him alot! He has so many moves, uses his hands extremely well. The last one of consideration is Andre Branch. 9.5 sacks so he has the best resume. But when watching him and knowing things, he doesnt have alot of moves and doesnt do great at anything. Very average looking
    Last edited by Cali512; 02-29-2012, 01:16 AM.
    Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions
  • Night Train
    Retired - On Several Levels
    • Jul 2005
    • 33117

    #2
    Re: Shuttle and Arm length

    Good stuff. Enjoyed the read.
    Anonymity is an abused privilege, abused most by people who mistake vitriol for wisdom and cynicism for wit

    Comment

    • alohabillsfan
      Registered User
      • Sep 2003
      • 3206

      #3
      Re: Shuttle and Arm length

      for some reason I am a fan of Branch in the 2nd if he is there.

      Comment

      • TigerJ
        Registered User
        • Jul 2002
        • 22575

        #4
        Re: Shuttle and Arm length

        Perhaps Branch never developed the moves etc. because he was already producing, and wasn't pushed by coaches to do more. In addition to the good shuttle and long arms, he does have an excellent 40. Not necessarily pushing him, just adding some thoughts. Thanks for doing the research.
        I've made up my mind. Don't confuse me with the facts.

        I'm the most reasonable poster here. If you don't agree, I'll be forced to have a hissy fit.

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        • CleveSteve
          Registered User
          • Apr 2011
          • 999

          #5
          Re: Shuttle and Arm length

          Cam Johnson is someone i didnt know till i made this, but i watched the film of him and i like him alot! He has so many moves, uses his hands extremely well. The last one of consideration is Andre Branch. 9.5 sacks so he has the best resume. But when watching him and knowing things, he doesnt have alot of moves and doesnt do great at anything.
          Totally agree with these comments. Cam Johnson is underrated and Andre Branch is very overrated. I watched the FSU/Clemson game with a focus on the linemen and Andrew Datko completely dominated him all game. Datko is considered a 4th round pick and Branch is fringe first? Give me a break.

          Comment

          • k-oneputt
            Registered User
            • Jun 2009
            • 7132

            #6
            Re: Shuttle and Arm length

            Chandler Jones certainly has the physical numbers, but why only 2 sacks last year ?

            Comment

            • Cali512
              Registered User
              • Jan 2012
              • 6393

              #7
              Re: Shuttle and Arm length

              Cam Johnson is officially my pick for 2nd-3rd round. He has everything you will want in a DE, he has speed and he uses his hands to get past an OT better than ive seen a DE do for the past few years. Hes the best right now DE in the draft in my opinion. Watch his film and he does things like, fake outside swim inside fluidly. When i say this i dont mean he over pursued then stopped and went after the QB, I mean he actually did a fake hesitation to the outside, then when inside to cleanly sack the QB. I like this kid, his hands are amazing
              Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions

              Comment

              • Cali512
                Registered User
                • Jan 2012
                • 6393

                #8
                Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                Originally posted by k-oneputt
                Chandler Jones certainly has the physical numbers, but why only 2 sacks last year ?


                Im guessing it was that he would get the pressure and Branch would get the sacks. It makes sense, Jones looked really good on tape and Branch sorda got lost and kinda doesnt seem great at all. Ill try to look up some videos and see if my statement is correct, but it does make sense that Jones has better physical numbers, and seems to be a better passrusher, and Branch seems to just be a one trick pony.
                Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions

                Comment

                • Cali512
                  Registered User
                  • Jan 2012
                  • 6393

                  #9
                  Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                  Originally posted by CleveSteve
                  Totally agree with these comments. Cam Johnson is underrated and Andre Branch is very overrated. I watched the FSU/Clemson game with a focus on the linemen and Andrew Datko completely dominated him all game. Datko is considered a 4th round pick and Branch is fringe first? Give me a break.



                  Cam Johnson will be the star out of this draft. Ive never seen a not top 15 prospect passrusher have so many moves. He spins swims bull rushes stunts drops into coverage (saw it 2 times, didnt look bad). He can play DE/OLB, i think even in the 2nd, hes a steal!
                  Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions

                  Comment

                  • CleveSteve
                    Registered User
                    • Apr 2011
                    • 999

                    #10
                    Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                    I don't know if I'd put him at OLB, but I do think he can LE or RE in a 4-3. I think he's a 50-75 player myself. That's not a knock, I think he's pretty good.

                    Comment

                    • JCBills
                      Registered User
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 3631

                      #11
                      Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                      Cam I have pegged as great value for Buffalo's 3rd round pick.

                      2nd round I'd have to go with Vinny Curry.

                      Comment

                      • Cali512
                        Registered User
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 6393

                        #12
                        Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                        What are his knocks? What i see is he sometimes over persues, and he gets caught out of position in the run game at times. But as a pure passrusher, hell ya
                        Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions

                        Comment

                        • CleveSteve
                          Registered User
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 999

                          #13
                          Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                          He's not overly strong... Kind of long and lean to be a DE. Not a real change-of-direction chase-and-pursue athlete like you'd want from a linebacker. Actually played OLB at Virginia for two years before they went back to a 4-3. In 883 plays in 2009 as an OLB he had only 2.0 sacks and had 0 INTs with 5 TFLs. In about 150 fewer plays in 2010, he had 6.5 sacks and 14.5 TFLs as a 4-3 DE.



                          He had only 4 sacks as a senior, those came against Indiana, So. Miss, Miami, and Duke. Miami and So. Miss both had legit RTs (IIRC he played LDE) but that's not a whole lot of production. He's not a big-time athelete and I think he's better suited to the left side, but I do think he is in that 50-75 range, as he has shown he's got some ability in pass rush, particularly at the senior bowl.
                          Last edited by CleveSteve; 02-29-2012, 02:57 PM.

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                          • Cali512
                            Registered User
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 6393

                            #14
                            Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                            Originally posted by CleveSteve
                            He's not overly strong... Kind of long and lean to be a DE. Not a real change-of-direction chase-and-pursue athlete like you'd want from a linebacker. Actually played OLB at Virginia for two years before they went back to a 4-3. In 883 plays in 2009 as an OLB he had only 2.0 sacks and had 0 INTs with 5 TFLs. In about 150 fewer plays in 2010, he had 6.5 sacks and 14.5 TFLs as a 4-3 DE.



                            He had only 4 sacks as a senior, those came against Indiana, So. Miss, Miami, and Duke. Miami and So. Miss both had legit RTs (IIRC he played LDE) but that's not a whole lot of production. He's not a big-time athelete and I think he's better suited to the left side, but I do think he is in that 50-75 range, as he has shown he's got some ability in pass rush, particularly at the senior bowl.

                            3rd round would be a steal to me. Just watching the tapes ive seen, he does alot of things no other DE does in the draft, and his moves look that of Freeney.
                            Not here to be right, just here to have interesting discussions about my impulsive opinions

                            Comment

                            • cookie G
                              Registered User
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 7573

                              #15
                              Re: Shuttle and Arm length

                              In 2010, a guest writer at footballoutsiders.com created a formula called Sackseer to predict the success of a DE or OLB. His formula consisted of 4 parts: shuttle time, vertical jump, a weighted sacks/game and the number of games missed in their career. Nothing about arm length though.

                              It really seemed pretty accurate, until he predicted Jerry Hughes would star and JPP would bust. One of the things he did bring up is that there hasn't been an elite pass rusher in 10 years with a shuttle time over 4.4. JPP woud be the original exception.

                              On that portion, I do think there is some correlation. Most of the guys who can't change direction fast enough in the shuttle (and probably the cone drill), don't usually make good pass rushers.

                              On your arm length thing, it might be splitting hairs a bit. Though it's true that Justin Tuck might have longer arms than Everette Brown or Robert Ayers, I question how much at additional 1/4" makes a difference.

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