Immensely Disturbing

[Captain gameboy]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/03/nfl-saints-used-illegal-player-bounty-program/1#.T1E9sIcgf_M

If this is true, I hope he is banned.

[Mski]

schefter's been all over this on twitter... says goodel has over 55k pages of evidence to review.. been going on for years

[kingJofNYC]

Bounties are nothing new, as old as it gets in this sport.

[Captain gameboy]

Bounties are nothing new, as old as it gets in this sport.

I've got a feeling that your claim may not be Gregg's best defense, no pun intended.

[Night Train]

Whatever we think doesn't matter...Greggo is in serious trouble.

[Meathead]

the amazing power of groupthink. moobs even says they KNEW IT WAS WRONG while doing it and still didnt stop. wow.

btw, bad thread title fail. title should always be descriptive of the primary content, not your vague personal judgement of it

[YardRat]

:rofl:

Didn't take long for Fisher's reign in St Looey to hit a snag.

[Mski]

Pat Kirwan speculates that there will be lawsuits filed against the Saints by players injured in their games from '09-'11

[TigerJ]

Gregg might as well go ahead and change his name to "Mud" right now because that's what it will be when Roger Goodell gets through with him.

[Mski]

shawne meriman also said on twitter that it was a "bounty" that caused his knee injury against the titans

[TigerJ]

If Goodell finds New Orleans is guilty as charged, he basically has two options as far as penalizing the team. He can dock them draft picks or he can fine the team. I'm not sure he can penalize Gregg Williams directly beyond banning him. I would guess if the team is penalized as heavily as one might expect, New Orleans will can his butt and sell it for cat food. It will be interesting to follow this story as it unfolds.

[imbondz]

banning Williams for a few games, a season, or for life? I think he should be banned for life. f that kind of mentality. anyone else caught should be banned for life too. can't stand that crap. that's not football.

[imbondz]

btw, bad thread title fail. title should always be descriptive of the primary content, not your vague personal judgement of it

lol. i agree, but I came to the site to see if we were talking about it, and it took me 2 seconds to find the thread.

[YardRat]

So how does anybody think this compares to Bellicheat's filmgate and how relative to that punishment should the penalty be?

[warsawbassman]

It's seeming more and more now that all the teams at the top, collage or NFL, cheat. I am afraid what we don't know is far more disturbing than what we do know. With the Bills 10 + years of sucking, multi million dollar douche bag athletes, cheat and win at all costs coaching staffs, I am about sick and tired of football.

[better days]

Well, Williams has admitted to doing that & promises to never do it again. I think he should be suspended for at least a year if not banned altogether.

[Crisis]

roscoe parrish has made a lot of guy's some money over the years

[TacklingDummy]

I'm not sure he can penalize Gregg Williams directly beyond banning him. I would guess if the team is penalized as heavily as one might expect, New Orleans will can his butt and sell it for cat food. It will be interesting to follow this story as it unfolds.
Gregg no longer is part of the Saints.

[better days]

Gregg no longer is part of the Saints.

Well,it has been reported that while Gregg was the DC of the Redskins they had the same bounty & the injury to Peyton Manning occured against the Skins while Gregg & his bounty were there. Also it has been reported that the Titans had the same system in place while Gregg was DC there.

It sounds like Williams brought HIS bounty system to the Saints. He is responsible, but Sean Payton is also responsible for allowing it to occur.

[jamze132]

If found guilty by the commish, I would like to see their 1st and 3rd round picks for the next 3 drafts taken away.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

It be fair if they lost the entire 2012 draft and next years 1st. And Greg should be suspended a full year.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Wasn't there something like this a few years back about the Steelers or Ravens? Maybe I'm mistaking just seems like few years ago there was a story about another team doing this.

[Buddo]

The whole situation stinks tbh. While we all want to see hard hitting football, nobody in their right minds wants to see players injured.
Just because something may have been happening for years, does not make it right.
NFL careers can be short enough as it is, without having other players attempting to do stuff that could make them shorter.
I wonder what would happen if Peyton Manning decides to sue Williams for loss of earnings due to a bounty put on him when the Redskins employed Williams. That could be fun to watch, especially when the Colts don't pay him the $18 million he's due sometime soon.

[chernobylwraiths]

Why is Sean Payton not getting more heat? I know Williams was our HC and we didn't like him but these two statements seem to contradict each other.


The NFL says Saints coach Sean Payton was not a direct participant, yet was aware of the allegations and "failed to stop the bounty program."


The same memo says Payton's agent, Mike Ornstein, provided money for a bounty on two occasions, and that Payton's conduct represented "conduct detrimental" to the league.

How is Payton not a "direct participant" but his agent provided money twice? I have never liked Sean Payton. I hope he is banned from coaching as well. But, as with anything, it's all about winning and some college will probably pay him a bucketload of money.

[chernobylwraiths]

Plus, this is criminal. To pay someone to hurt someone else is a crime. It isn't part of the game. Especially with the scale of "bonus" for carted off or knocked out.

Now I can't wait for the "it's part of the game" and "pussification of America" rednecks to start in on this.

[ServoBillieves]

Plus, this is criminal. To pay someone to hurt someone else is a crime. It isn't part of the game. Especially with the scale of "bonus" for carted off or knocked out.

Now I can't wait for the "it's part of the game" and "pussification of America" rednecks to start in on this.

To the first part, technically they are paid to play a violent sport and his people as hard as possible to force fumbles or shake them up/make them think twice. /end being a smartass

That being said, you're absolutely right with the part of the game/pussification (a word?) defenders. Most of those people (and even me when I first heard it) are ignorant as to WHY this was a big deal. I remember back in high school when I played the coach would tell players he'd buy lunch or let us sit out a practice if he heard a good pop with the pads. Obviously, that's high school, and that's hoping to hit hard, not injure.

Reading this, I was dumbfounded when I saw that it was an actual system they had set up. Money for knock outs and cart-offs with escalation and incentive? That's pretty elaborate, and I for once actually HOPE that Goodell goes over the top on this one.

[Buddo]

So how does anybody think this compares to Bellicheat's filmgate and how relative to that punishment should the penalty be?

TBH, I would view this as considerably worse. It's one thing to try and get extra info on how the opposition are preparing, signals, etc - some of which is actually allowable, it's another thing entirely to encourage play that is likely to be detrimental to opponents health, well-being, and careers, as a consequence.

Payton and Williams should be banned. As should Loomis, especially as he supposedly didn't do anything about it, even when told to by the Saints owner.

Williams should, imho, be thrown out of the NFL forthwith, and never allowed back.

Payton should be banned for some period of time, and I'm thinking a year is just about sufficient. As HC he has to take responsibility for letting this occur, even if it wasn't his idea to start with. It's called 'collusion'.

The Saints should be losing picks because of it, also. Quite how they arrange that, I'm not sure, as they don't have a 1st rounder this year, but it needs to happen.

[Philagape]

Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Washington Post reports Redskins had a bounty system for big hits on opponents under their former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.


Eye on Football ‏ @EyeOnNFL
Back in Sept. 2011, Dungy traced Peyton's neck injury to an '06 game vs. the Skins. Yep, Gregg Williams was the DC.

[Philagape]

I think the punishment should be to award Drew Brees to the winner of a drawing among all the teams Gregg Williams head coached.

[Michael82]

Anyone else waiting to hear about the bounty he used when he was Head Coach of the Bills?

[Philagape]

The Bills thought he meant Bounty paper towels.

[EricStratton]

If money came from representatives of the team this also violated salary cap rules.

[Historian]

I always said he was an *******....

[Captain gameboy]

btw, bad thread title fail. title should always be descriptive of the primary content, not your vague personal judgement of it

With neither vagueness nor sympathy.........

<*************BOUNTY ON MEATHEAD.***************>

[Captain gameboy]

I always said he was an *******....

I always thought that as well.
I always thought he was kind of a marine wannabe.
Ever since that dumb wake up thing at his first Bills training camp-slamming trash cans or something.

No reason to treat adults that way unless there's something wrong with you-in the head.

[better days]

If money came from representatives of the team this also violated salary cap rules.

It was reported the money came from player fines for being late to meetings etc. Rather than waste that money on a charity, Gregg thought it better to reward his players for injuring players on the opposing team. What a douche.

[YardRat]

I always thought Williams would get another shot at a HC gig...guess he pissed that opportunity away.

[EricStratton]

It was reported the money came from player fines for being late to meetings etc. Rather than waste that money on a charity, Gregg thought it better to reward his players for injuring players on the opposing team. What a douche.



Some came from Payton's agent.

[YardRat]

So who do you think will be Fisher's DC in St Louis now?

[stuckincincy]

I wonder how many congressmen's staffs are rushing to be first to hold a hearing?


RICO anyone? :pimped:



http://mike-freeman.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6264363/35073385

[Crisis]

http://i.qkme.me/36ey8a.jpg

[Crisis]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2iihjds.gif

[TigerJ]

I am a bit behind the times on Williams. I didn't know he had left the Saints and was named Jeff Fisher's DC.

I did run across an article in http://dcprosportsreport.com/2012/03/02/gregg-williams-ran-bounty-system-in-washington/ the website better known for its mock draft database. This evidence just digs the hole deeper for Gregg Williams. I have a hard time thinking the league will do anything less than ban Williams for life.

[Philagape]

And the Buffalo shoe drops:


Bounty system existed in Buffalo under Gregg Williams, former players say

By Tim Graham
News Staff Reporter

During his time as Buffalo Bills head coach, Gregg Williams promoted cash bonuses for delivering hits that seriously injured opponents, former safety Coy Wire told The Buffalo News.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article747663.ece

[Extremebillsfan247]

Saints are not the only team that is or even were doing it recently. They are just the ones who happened to get caught. In fact, that kind of thing has been a common practice in the NFL for decades now.

[better days]

Saints are not the only team that is or even were doing it recently. They are just the ones who happened to get caught. In fact, that kind of thing has been a common practice in the NFL for decades now.

Well, we know that Gregg has been doing it for a long time, tell us who else has.

[YardRat]

Didn't Pete Carroll have some system set up when he was coaching ST's for Buffalo that involved a Teddy Bear 'prize'?

[better days]

Didn't Pete Carroll have some system set up when he was coaching ST's for Buffalo that involved a Teddy Bear 'prize'?

I don't know waht you are referring to. Teams have in the past had incentives for things such as tackles, Ints, etc but this is the first I ever heard of where incentives were given for injuring players.

[imbondz]

nice

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8275de8b/article/williams-reportedly-also-ran-bounty-system-as-bills-head-coach?module=HP11_headline_stack

[imbondz]

karma is the reason we've sucked all these years

[Mike]

not surprised at all

[Meathead]

ive got no love for moobs but seems kinda unfair hes taking the heat alone when this was obviously a widespread cultural normalcy in the nfl

in that way its completely different from the dirty cheating cheaters* who cheated. im sure other teams try to steal signals but they werent standing on the sidelines blatently filming their opponents delivering signals then matching them up with the gametapes

moobs got caught doing what probably many teams do. the bastard cheaters* were really and truly cheating

[Captain gameboy]

ive got no love for moobs but seems kinda unfair hes taking the heat alone when this was obviously a widespread cultural normalcy in the nfl

in that way its completely different from the dirty cheating cheaters* who cheated. im sure other teams try to steal signals but they werent standing on the sidelines blatently filming their opponents delivering signals then matching them up with the gametapes

moobs got caught doing what probably many teams do. the bastard cheaters* were really and truly cheating

It's the lying to the league and the coverup that will cause the post pain, but regardless, with the league so clearly focused on injury prevention, and with the multitudes of fines/suspensions this will get much more attention that stealing sigs.

Quotes like this won't help:
"During his time as Buffalo Bills head coach, Gregg Williams promoted cash bonuses for delivering hits that seriously injured opponents, former safety Coy Wire told The Buffalo News."

[ServoBillieves]

good ol Coy Wire... Matt Bowen said he doesn't think it was a bad idea...

[Skooby]

Maybe they'll fire Ralph Wilson.

[YardRat]

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/sports/article.html/content/news/articles/ap/2012/03/04/New_Orleans_case_puts_scrutiny_on_NFL_bounty_pay/

Shawne Merriman of the Buffalo Bills wonders why all the fuss now about bounties. And former All-Pro guard Alan Faneca says he's not surprised at all that such a sordid system has come to light.

Retired quarterback Joe Theismann says bounties are a long-accepted part of the game. In his day, it was actually "flattering" to be the target.

[YardRat]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7644139/nfl-reportedly-probe-washington-redskins-bounties

NFL to probe Redskins

The NFL reportedly will investigate claims that the Washington Redskins (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/wsh/washington-redskins) had a bounty program when Gregg Williams was the team's defensive coordinator, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

The newspaper reported that it was unclear if the Redskins would be held accountable if the NFL determines the team operated a bounty program under Williams.

[YardRat]

Ruben Brown says Bills Didn't Run 'Bounty' System

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/article/158807/4/Ruben-Brown-says-Bills-Didnt-Run-Bounty-System

The Buffalo News reports that Williams ran a similar system with the Bills during his run as head coach from 2001-2003. However former Bills Pro-Bowl offensive lineman Ruben Brown, who played under Williams, told 2 on Your Side's Ben Hayes, that there was not a bounty system in Buffalo.

Brown did say the the team wanted to play with a physical style under Williams, "Football is an aggressive sport, when you hit you should have some bad intentions." But Brown says the motivation was not because of a bounty system. "I wanted to win in a competitive nature."


I wonder if/when Jerry Gray's name gets dragged into this.

[Historian]

Its all over the front page of the Buffalo News this morning...

http://www.buffalonews.com/

[better days]

It is well known that Williams was to be the next HC in Washington when Gibbs retired. When Gibbs finally did retire, Gregg was fired rather than made HC, now this makes sense. Snyder must have found out about the bounty system.

[better days]

It's the lying to the league and the coverup that will cause the post pain, but regardless, with the league so clearly focused on injury prevention, and with the multitudes of fines/suspensions this will get much more attention that stealing sigs.

Quotes like this won't help:
"During his time as Buffalo Bills head coach, Gregg Williams promoted cash bonuses for delivering hits that seriously injured opponents, former safety Coy Wire told The Buffalo News."

Agreed. It is the cover up that did in Richard Nixon & the cover up that will do in Gregg Williams. I think he gets suspended for life from the NFL.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Well, we know that Gregg has been doing it for a long time, tell us who else has.It has been said for years, although unproven, that this hit by Charles Martin on Jim McMahon was a pay for performance hit. In other words it was intentional with the purpose of hurting a key player on the opposing team in order to improve your chances of winning. Essentially, it's another way of cheating. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM There are others, this is just an example of how far back that kind of thing went. Of course back then, the NFL rules were a lot different than they are now.

[TigerJ]

There are whispers all over the place that this is a common practice. I don't remember anyone else getting caught. In any case, the NFL will and should try to make sure it doesn't keep on happening. Any performance bonus like that violates the CBA. I personally don't see anything wrong with bonuses for sacks and other legit defensive states, but financial incentives to injure players is way below the belt.

[ServoBillieves]

There are whispers all over the place that this is a common practice. I don't remember anyone else getting caught. In any case, the NFL will and should try to make sure it doesn't keep on happening. Any performance bonus like that violates the CBA. I personally don't see anything wrong with bonuses for sacks and other legit defensive states, but financial incentives to injure players is way below the belt.

It is common practice, it's just how this is worded. incentives for HOW you injure a player and hoping players get carted off? That's pretty screwed up.

[Mr. Pink]

Didn't Buddy Ryan do this when he was with the Eagles?

[methos4ever]

Didn't Buddy Ryan do this when he was with the Eagles?
Yup, who begat Fisher (from Bears) who begat Williams.

[Mr. Pink]

Yup, who begat Fisher (from Bears) who begat Williams.


Exactly.

Which is why to me this is much ado about nothing.

It's common practice in the game and will continue to be common practice in the game.

[YardRat]

Gregg Williams Summoned To NYC

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/article/158807/4/Former-Bills-Coach-Gregg-Williams-Summoned-To-NYC

Former Bills head coach Gregg Williams has been reportedly been summoned to New York City to meet with NFL security officials regarding bounty pools he allegedly ran while coaching in the league.

[Meathead]

you want disturbing? ill give you disturbing

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3906/disturbingronaldmcdonal.jpg

[Meathead]

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5565/disturbingbabyroast.jpg

[Meathead]

http://s1.static.gotsmile.net/images/2011/05/02/chinese-disturbing-food-fortune-cookie_130434524142.jpg

[ServoBillieves]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/4/2/58acc4d4-0968-4c1d-8fd1-48fd5fc94452.jpg

[better days]

Exactly.

Which is why to me this is much ado about nothing.

It's common practice in the game and will continue to be common practice in the game.

Like I said, the cover up is what brought Nixon down & it will do the same with Williams.

[Historian]

The Aints should have to give back their Lombardi tropy.

The Pats should have to give one of their back too for spygate.

No champions for those years.

Simple.

[MikeInRoch]

So consider this....

What happens if the money for the bounty came from someone not directly associated with the team? And if that person, it so happens, made a large bet on the "under" for total team wins for their opponent that season...

[stuckincincy]

So consider this....

What happens if the money for the bounty came from someone not directly associated with the team? And if that person, it so happens, made a large bet on the "under" for total team wins for their opponent that season...

Like I said before, somewhere...RICO.

[Mski]

Yahoo Sports is speculating that Williams could face criminal charges

[Stewie]

It is well known that Williams was to be the next HC in Washington when Gibbs retired. When Gibbs finally did retire, Gregg was fired rather than made HC, now this makes sense. Snyder must have found out about the bounty system.

This implies Snyder made a reasonable, calculated decision based upon the integrity of the game and what's best for his team.

Not possible.

[better days]

This implies Snyder made a reasonable, calculated decision based upon the integrity of the game and what's best for his team.

Not possible.

Well, GOOD POINT, but you know what they say about the blind squirrel.

[Bill Cody]

but you know what they say about the blind squirrel.

He finally found a nut to eat but before he could eat it he was devoured by the neighbor's rottweiler

[YardRat]

Uh-oh...

Chiefs Safety Eric Berry Wonders Whether He Was The Target Of A Bounty

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2012/3/6/2849474/chiefs-safety-eric-berry-bounty-gountygate-bills-stevie-johnson

Berry suffered a torn ACL in the 2011 season opener against the Buffalo Bills (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/buffalo-bills) on a low block by Bills receiver Steve Johnson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34862/steve-johnson). The injury knocked Berry out for the rest of the year. Josh Alper of Pro Football Talk reports (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/eric-berry-wonders-if-bounty-led-to-his-injury/) that Berry took to Twitter to muse on the incident following the news of the Saints scandal breaking.

"Sometimes I sit n wonder if they had a bounty out on me...oh well...who cares. Either way u can't hold me down."

[Historian]

"You can't put a bounty on a man...you'll get us all thrown in the clink!" -Strother Martin, Slap Shot.

[Mski]

i think one of the interesting things about this story is: The IRS will certainly be following this story closely, and if the league does determine that players were paid for actions that werent part of their contract (the bounties) they're going to look into the unreported income

[better days]

"You can't put a bounty on a man...you'll get us all thrown in the clink!" -Strother Martin, Slap Shot.

BEST Sports movie of all time. Anyone that has not seen it should rent the DVD & NOT the remake.

[YardRat]

Inter-league, supposedly confidential, memo states Vilma personally put a 10K bounty on Favre's head in the championship game a couple of seasons ago? (Per Peter King on NFLN)

Uh-oh.