Spending vs Saving Money

[Mike]

There is this sentiment around here that the Bills should save money by not signing the best FA and instead getting 2tier and 3tier players with the hopes of one of these players panning out.

How has this strategy worked? Awfully! In the last 12 years, the Bills are the only team not to make the playoffs. The last time the Bills had a playoff spot and a chance at more was during the 98-99 season, which coincidentally, they were over the cap.

If you look at the top teams in the NFL, all of them have Top Talent and when the times is up, and its time to renew their contracts, most often these teams keep their top talent by paying for it. How can the Patriots, Giants, Packers, ets have so many well paid superstars while the Bills have none? How can they have the money to get even more superstars while the Bills are worrying about the cap?

So in short, the Bills should go out and sign Mario Williams, then Get Mike Wallace or V. Jackson (better than drafting Floyd & DE is not a need) and draft the top LB/CB/OT in round 1/2/3. Those moves would go a long way to helping the Bills become a contender. The best teams have great talent, and we have a chance and the money to get a top DE and WR and we should take advantage of this opportunity.

[YardRat]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

There is a flaw in the logic here. The reason we haven't been successful or the last 12 seasons is piss-poor drafting.

We have thrown money at FA's (Dockery, TO, Adams, Fletcher, Milloy).
We have made the blockbuster trade for a QB (Bledsoe).
We have moved up to grab guys in the first round (Losman, McCargo)

Throwing big money at FA's doesn't work, and neither does trading away picks. Rarely.

The best teams have great talent because the vast majority of their roster is constructed from good draft picks not over-priced big names.

[JCBills]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

Look at teams that win often and win big. Their core players are mostly homegrown.

You have exceptions like Brees, but the best teams out there were built through the draft.

[Mike]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

There is a flaw in the logic here. The reason we haven't been successful or the last 12 seasons is piss-poor drafting.

We have thrown money at FA's (Dockery, TO, Adams, Fletcher, Milloy).
We have made the blockbuster trade for a QB (Bledsoe).
We have moved up to grab guys in the first round (Losman, McCargo)

Throwing big money at FA's doesn't work, and neither does trading away picks. Rarely.

The best teams have great talent because the vast majority of their roster is constructed from good draft picks not over-priced big names.

My argument is that it is impossible to have a great team without great talent. If my logic is flawed show me a Dynasty without Pro-Bowlers or even Hall of Famers. I bet you will not find one. Secondly, even when drafted, great teams find a way to keep and PAY for their talented players.

As for those early 2000's teams signing TKO, Adams, Milloy, Bledsoe, etc... lead to a 9-7 season, almost a playoff birth and THE NUMBER 2 DEFENSE IN THE NFL. That talent produced.

Personally, I would never have gone after Bledsoe. I think that as a QB, he is missing something. He is not top tier. He is a good Pro-Bowl, good numbers, be he was never great. He is like the Schobel of QBs.

Lastly, you can not dismiss a strategy of getting players (FA or Draft) because its executed poorly. The Washington Redskins have been known for overspending in FA and getting nothing of value in return. This strategy has not worked for them. In my opinion they are targeting the wrong players. They are going for players with potential that have shown flashes and they pay them as if they are already on that level (Moss, Coles, etc) These are good players, not great. Then they missed big time with Haynesworth.

Conversely, the 1990's 49ers were great at getting FA as are the Patriots. They got Moss for dirt cheap and when he produced they paid him the big dollars. This year they have Franchise Tagged Wes Walker because he is worth it! They are spending money. When Brady's contract was up they resigned him. If you look at the Pats and Bills recent drafts, both drafts were pretty bad, but the Pats have outshine the Bills in FA and their talent took them to another You can not knock a strategy because of issues with execution.

Weather you are Drafting, Trading, Resigning, or using FA to get players it all comes down to talent evaluation. With FA, its a little easier. The draft can be a crap shoot but the top GMs make the best decisions year after year. In the end, the team is a reflection of the people who built it, their talents and abilities, and capacities.

[JCBills]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

My argument is that it is impossible to have a great team without great talent. If my logic is flawed show me a Dynasty without Pro-Bowlers or even Hall of Famers. I bet you will not find one. Secondly, even when drafted, great teams find a way to keep and PAY for their talented players.

As for those early 2000's teams signing TKO, Adams, Milloy, Bledsoe, etc... lead to a 9-7 season, almost a playoff birth and THE NUMBER 2 DEFENSE IN THE NFL. That talent produced.

Personally, I would never have gone after Bledsoe. I think that as a QB, he is missing something. He is not top tier. He is a good Pro-Bowl, good numbers, be he was never great. He is like the Schobel of QBs.

Lastly, you can not dismiss a strategy of getting players (FA or Draft) because its executed poorly. The Washington Redskins have been known for overspending in FA and getting nothing of value in return. This strategy has not worked for them. In my opinion they are targeting the wrong players. They are going for players with potential that have shown flashes and they pay them as if they are already on that level (Moss, Coles, etc) These are good players, not great. Then they missed big time with Haynesworth.

Conversely, the 1990's 49ers were great at getting FA as are the Patriots. They got Moss for dirt cheap and when he produced they paid him the big dollars. This year they have Franchise Tagged Wes Walker because he is worth it! They are spending money. When Brady's contract was up they resigned him. If you look at the Pats and Bills recent drafts, both drafts were pretty bad, but the Pats have outshine the Bills in FA and their talent took them to another You can not knock a strategy because of issues with execution.

Weather you are Drafting, Trading, Resigning, or using FA to get players it all comes down to talent evaluation. With FA, its a little easier. The draft can be a crap shoot but the top GMs make the best decisions year after year. In the end, the team is a reflection of the people who built it, their talents and abilities, and capacities.

Moss. One big pickup for the Pats in how many straight seasons of being major contenders? The Pats are an example of building through the draft. Same with the Steelers, Packers, Giants, and so on.

Clearly dynasties have HOF players and whatnot, I don't even know why you bothered composing that thought.

Also, nobody would say we don't need to retain the best talent, you're losing any sort of point in this thread.

[Mahdi]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

There is a flaw in the logic here. The reason we haven't been successful or the last 12 seasons is piss-poor drafting.

We have thrown money at FA's (Dockery, TO, Adams, Fletcher, Milloy).
We have made the blockbuster trade for a QB (Bledsoe).
We have moved up to grab guys in the first round (Losman, McCargo)

Throwing big money at FA's doesn't work, and neither does trading away picks. Rarely.

The best teams have great talent because the vast majority of their roster is constructed from good draft picks not over-priced big names.

Not necessarily true.

Pats - Welker, Watters, Carter, Anderson. All 4 were huge performers for them. 2 went to the Pro Bowl

Saints - Vilma, Brees, Greer. QB, QB of defense, top CB on their team.

Bears - Cutler, Peppers, Roy Williams. Best offensive player, best defensive player, #2 WR who was having a good year before Cutler got hurt.

Jets - Bart Scott, Santonio Holmes, LT, Plax, Cromartie.

Vikings - Favre, Jared Allen, Winfield, Hutchinson.

Lions - Van Den Bosch, Corey Williams, Stephen Tulloch, Scheffler, Burleson.

All these teams owe their recent playoff runs to those FAs. Several of those players have become franchise players for their teams also. If you spend properly in FA you can improve your team and your chances. They key is you have to be willing to spend quality dollars. That means big contracts for top players and then getting some value buys that fit your game plan.

[ddaryl]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

Build the team through the draft and form a solid core, Bring in some core players through FA this year (and last) and improve your depth

When the depth and core is in place then is the time to find ways to bring the big time Pro_Bowl caliber missing pieces.

The last 12 years have been hard, but, this team has been horrible in FO and coaching choices 10 of those 12 years. We have done an 80% roster turnover in the last 2 years, so there were some pains associated with that.

I see us going the 2nd tier route in FA and really building up our depth and improving the core. Depth killed us the most in 2011 IMO.

If we shoot our proverbial wad on Mario we will have way to many holes at other positions or drafted inexperience at positions and we will see similar problems in 2012 as we did in 2011.

I would love to sign Mario and VJax but that is not going to happen. Too many other positions in need of being filled overall, as well a few more of our own to tender and extend this year

We still have Fred Jackson Levitre and Byrd extensions, and Urbik and Rhinehart RFA tenders

[JCBills]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

Not necessarily true.

Pats - Welker, Watters, Carter, Anderson. All 4 were huge performers for them. 2 went to the Pro Bowl

Saints - Vilma, Brees, Greer. QB, QB of defense, top CB on their team.

Bears - Cutler, Peppers, Roy Williams. Best offensive player, best defensive player, #2 WR who was having a good year before Cutler got hurt.

Jets - Bart Scott, Santonio Holmes, LT, Plax, Cromartie.

Vikings - Favre, Jared Allen, Winfield, Hutchinson.

Lions - Van Den Bosch, Corey Williams, Stephen Tulloch, Scheffler, Burleson.

All these teams owe their recent playoff runs to those FAs. Several of those players have become franchise players for their teams also. If you spend properly in FA you can improve your team and your chances. They key is you have to be willing to spend quality dollars. That means big contracts for top players and then getting some value buys that fit your game plan.

These pick-ups are over a few years, and as you can see, not that plentiful. That's a few players out of their 53 man roster, which was probably mostly built in-house.

[Mahdi]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

Build the team through the draft and form a solid core, Bring in some core players through FA this year (and last) and improve your depth

When the depth and core is in place then is the time to find ways to bring the big time Pro_Bowl caliber missing pieces.

The last 12 years have been hard, but, this team has been horrible in FO and coaching choices 10 of those 12 years. We have done an 80% roster turnover in the last 2 years, so there were some pains associated with that.

I see us going the 2nd tier route in FA and really building up our depth and improving the core. Depth killed us the most in 2011 IMO.

If we shoot our proverbial wad on Mario we will have way to many holes at other positions or drafted inexperience at positions and we will see similar problems in 2012 as we did in 2011.

I would love to sign Mario and VJax but that is not going to happen. Too many other positions in need of being filled overall, as well a few more of our own to tender and extend this year

We still have Fred Jackson Levitre and Byrd extensions, and Urbik and Rhinehart RFA tenders

I don't agree.

Our main problem on defense was pass rush if we solve that with a guy like Mario our defense can be great, not just good.

We hold the 10th pick in the draft and that can easily solve our #2 WR role with some really good prospects probably available when we pick.

Right there we have solved our two biggest problems. Other than that our other issues are minor. Maybe another CB or two, one through FA one through draft. At linebacker we're fine although we can improve by using some mid round picks to solidify the position. 4-3 LBs are easy to find in the draft and you can get really good ones in rounds 3 and 4.

Our OL is in good shape. LT is decent although we can improve it as there are many OT options in FA that can come at a reasonable price and some decent depth in the draft as well. We have 9-10 picks.

Sign Mario Williams, Richard Marshall and Anthony Collins.

Draft Floyd or Wright at 10. Then look for an OT or another pass rusher in round 2, wherever the value is. Rounds 3,4,5 can be for LB, slot WR (if we don't get Wright) and a CB.

[Mahdi]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

These pick-ups are over a few years, and as you can see, not that plentiful. That's a few players out of their 53 man roster, which was probably mostly built in-house.

Right but those are several key FAs that cost big money and also helped them become playoff teams and super bowl teams.

[better days]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

Not necessarily true.

Pats - Welker, Watters, Carter, Anderson. All 4 were huge performers for them. 2 went to the Pro Bowl

Saints - Vilma, Brees, Greer. QB, QB of defense, top CB on their team.

Bears - Cutler, Peppers, Roy Williams. Best offensive player, best defensive player, #2 WR who was having a good year before Cutler got hurt.

Jets - Bart Scott, Santonio Holmes, LT, Plax, Cromartie.

Vikings - Favre, Jared Allen, Winfield, Hutchinson.

Lions - Van Den Bosch, Corey Williams, Stephen Tulloch, Scheffler, Burleson.

All these teams owe their recent playoff runs to those FAs. Several of those players have become franchise players for their teams also. If you spend properly in FA you can improve your team and your chances. They key is you have to be willing to spend quality dollars. That means big contracts for top players and then getting some value buys that fit your game plan.

The only team to have REAL success that you named was the Saints. The Bears are the only team that has a shot to have success with the players named as being responsible for it. Three of the Jets named will no longer be Jets next year. Three of the Vikings named will not be Vikings next year.

[Mahdi]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

The only team to have REAL success that you named was the Saints. The Bears are the only team that has a shot to have success with the players named as being responsible for it. Three of the Jets named will no longer be Jets next year. Three of the Vikings named will not be Vikings next year.

The Lions made it to the playoffs with a lot of help from the players I named.

The Vikings were SB contenders because of those players.

The Bears were having a great season and playoff contenders before Cutler got hurt as he was having a great year as was Peppers.

The Jets were in the AFC championship twice so you can't discount what those players did for them. Their coach might have been the one to cause all the disfunction. Not the FAs they got.

Pretty sure Welker has 300 receptions in the last 3 seasons and Waters was a PBer this year. Carter and Anderson combined for over 20 sacks.

[better days]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

The Lions made it to the playoffs with a lot of help from the players I named.

The Vikings were SB contenders because of those players.

The Bears were having a great season and playoff contenders before Cutler got hurt as he was having a great year as was Peppers.

The Jets were in the AFC championship twice so you can't discount what those players did for them. Their coach might have been the one to cause all the disfunction. Not the FAs they got.

Pretty sure Welker has 300 receptions in the last 3 seasons and Waters was a PBer this year. Carter and Anderson combined for over 20 sacks.

Welker was a TRADE not a FA signing. I said the Bears may yet have success. The rest of the teams, meh.

[JCBills]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

Right but those are several key FAs that cost big money and also helped them become playoff teams and super bowl teams.

Right, but the majority of the teams are made up of their own, drafted players, or players they targeted but had to wait to get (guys who sign elsewhere as camp bodies, but actually catch on with the next team they join) and so on.

Like I said, a few players a year over a few seasons. Players that are added to what they already have going.

Buffalo signed Nick Barnett last year. Maybe they'll sign someone else good this year.

That would be a few good players over a few seasons.

[Mahdi]

Re: Spending vs Saving Money

Welker was a TRADE not a FA signing. I said the Bears may yet have success. The rest of the teams, meh.

Right, and you can only execute trades when the FA period begins. So, it counts as part of your FA activity from a fan perspective. Who cares how they acquire players. You still have to be willing to pay them.