I was wrong!

[X-Era]

Where are you? Show some balls and a spine and admit you were wrong.

I was officially wrong for the following:

1) A star free agent would never want to come here
2) Ralph is cheap
3) We will never go after a top free agent
4) The Bills will never be able to sign a top free agent

Where are you? Step up.

[ServoBillieves]

I said Mario wouldn't sign.

[scartown]

I said it was a pipe dream. Heck of a job by the Bills to get it done

[BertSquirtgum]

You were wrong.

[wmoz11]

Before free agency I thought he was a pipe dream. Very surprised we convinced a top free agent to play here.

[zone]

Very surprised they even got him into the plane, let alone into a uniform!

Great day, it's been a long time since this team had any resemblance to the 90's Bills, now we have a potentially potent pass rush. Good things to follow.

[kgun12]

:couch:

[mjt328]

Still can't believe it.

Although I still reserve the right to complain about stupid decisons from the front office, I can no longer state they aren't trying.

[Mr. Pink]

I was wrong on thinking we couldn't get big name guys in here.

I knew we could overspend to get guys, since we proved that on Dockery, Walker, B. Smith, etc etc etc...

I was also wrong thinking we would never sign our homegrown talent, seeing we got Stevie back.

[mikemac2001]

When did nix and chan fail us....most people wrote them off bc of ralph

I was always annoyed that people never gave them a chance to do what they said from day 1

3 yrs

Build in draft
Then sign pieces in fa

[The Jokeman]

I was wrong but still maintain Ralph is cheap. As sure he's giving a boatload of cash to Mario but the reality is good teams to have depth and/or better coaches than we do. I mean if Nix was serious that we're done in free agency now that Mario's here I'm miffed. As yes Mario is great signing but we can't expect him alone to lead us to the playoffs. As we still have holes at #2 WR, a starting LT and by his own addimission maybe 2 CBs. Also I'd love to have a secondarly pass rusher to add to the mix. I also feel we need a backup Center and like some depth.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I was wrong but still maintain Ralph is cheap. As sure he's giving a boatload of cash to Mario but the reality is good teams to have depth and/or better coaches than we do. I mean if Nix was serious that we're done in free agency now that Mario's here I'm miffed. As yes Mario is great signing but we can't expect him alone to lead us to the playoffs. As we still have holes at #2 WR, a starting LT and by his own addimission maybe 2 CBs. Also I'd love to have a secondarly pass rusher to add to the mix. I also feel we need a backup Center and like some depth.
:shakeno:

[SABURZFAN]

I was wrong but still maintain Ralph is cheap. As sure he's giving a boatload of cash to Mario but the reality is good teams to have depth and/or better coaches than we do. I mean if Nix was serious that we're done in free agency now that Mario's here I'm miffed. As yes Mario is great signing but we can't expect him alone to lead us to the playoffs. As we still have holes at #2 WR, a starting LT and by his own addimission maybe 2 CBs. Also I'd love to have a secondarly pass rusher to add to the mix. I also feel we need a backup Center and like some depth.


:clap:

[ThunderGun]

I definitely didnt think he'd sign here

[The Jokeman]

:shakeno:
Were the Billls great in 1985 when Bruce got here? No. Were they great when Kelly got here in 1986. No they finally turned the corner when guys like John Davis, James Lofton and Kenny Davis were added in 1989. The truth is superstars help make teams good but good depth make them even better.

[mikemac2001]

I was wrong but still maintain Ralph is cheap. As sure he's giving a boatload of cash to Mario but the reality is good teams to have depth and/or better coaches than we do. I mean if Nix was serious that we're done in free agency now that Mario's here I'm miffed. As yes Mario is great signing but we can't expect him alone to lead us to the playoffs. As we still have holes at #2 WR, a starting LT and by his own addimission maybe 2 CBs. Also I'd love to have a secondarly pass rusher to add to the mix. I also feel we need a backup Center and like some depth.


atleast let them move on to the next part...they were obviously focused on williams and he was the most important player so far

[Buffalo Thriller]

THats Ralph is a cheap old bastard.

[Jaydog57]

Lot's of fans almost **** the bed when a major free agent is so close to signing with their team and they don't know whether he will or won't. Excuses and reasons why he won't sign with the team, "we're gonna suck next year", "yet again our front office screws over the fans", etc. (still reading those on the Dolphins boards about signing Manning.)

Always so awesome when they do sign after such a long wait, seems like it takes forever to get it done. :peace:

[The Jokeman]

atleast let them move on to the next part...they were obviously focused on williams and he was the most important player so far
Which again is fine and dandy but it doesn't mean we've filled other holes that need to be filled to improve this team. I hate when people get short sighted because something great happened. Keep focus and make sure that all are needs are met.

[kingJofNYC]

Yeah, I didn't think they could get it done in FA until we started to build a foundation.

Outside of one offseason, they did very little in FA, hard to not expect a trend to continue until it ends.

Hope for a good draft, we may be turning a corner.

[madness]

Sure, Ralph is cheap!

Buddy Nix, Ralph Wilson, and company have come through in a big way this offseason and doled out the three of the richest contracts in team history in the last nine months.

[X-Era]

Which again is fine and dandy but it doesn't mean we've filled other holes that need to be filled to improve this team. I hate when people get short sighted because something great happened. Keep focus and make sure that all are needs are met.I think short sighted is assuming all holes can be filled in the first week of free agency. I think we have to look at what's still there and be reasonable about what we have left in cap space.

I don't see anything in free agency with our 3 holes that can't be equally filled through the draft.

You could argue Marcus McNeil but starting LT money may not be available at this point as far as cap goes.

To me that's really it. After that you could argue Manningham but I'd argue Blackmon or Floyd is every bit as intriguing.

Outside of McNeil I'm not sure we could point to a starting quality LT in free agency right now. The draft may still boast a prospect that represents that.

Your argument is we should do more in free agency. Fine. Show who the guys are that are still out there that are so much better than what we could land in the draft.

[SABURZFAN]

Sure, Ralph is cheap!

Buddy Nix, Ralph Wilson, and company have come through in a big way this offseason and doled out the three of the richest contracts in team history in the last nine months.


a blip to what he's made from Bills fans for OVER 600 months. :birds:

[The Jokeman]

I think short sighted is assuming all holes can be filled in the first week of free agency. I think we have to look at what's still there and be reasonable about what we have left in cap space.

I don't see anything in free agency with our 3 holes that can't be equally filled through the draft.

You could argue Marcus McNeil but starting LT money may not be available at this point as far as cap goes.

To me that's really it. After that you could argue Manningham but I'd argue Blackmon or Floyd is every bit as intriguing.

Outside of McNeil I'm not sure we could point to a starting quality LT in free agency right now. The draft may still boast a prospect that represents that.

CB is a spot where we could still land a solid starter. But the draft is also deep at the position. Carlos Rogers is still a guy I'd go after. But if he's thinking 8 or more mill per, I might rather use our 1st rounder on a CB.

Your argument is we should do more in free agency. Fine. Show who the guys are that are still out there that are so much better than what we could land in the draft.
I'm not expecting it all through free agency but not counting on fill anyone of these holes with no more than 3 rookies. Which gives us 3 or 4 to fill through free agancy.

In free agency I'd be looking for a #2 WR, I think guys like Doucet and Negadee could fil this role. As I do like Michael Floyd too but the fact is rookie WRs producing is a big question mark even if it's in the #2 role. I know last year Julius Jones and AJ Green produced but they were the exception not the rule. Plus allows us to use our top pick on a LT. As I agree there aren't many starting options at LT in UFA.

Backup Center. There's guys gettig cut every day and we might be able to land a veteran. Jeff Faine formerly of the Bucs might be interesting to bring in.

CB1 if we don't get a starter we can find a nickel. I read the 49ers just released Shawntae Spencer who is more affordable than Rogers. I also mentioned in an earlier thread has a connection to Wannestadt from their days at Pitt and he could be a solid guy to add to the mix to compete for a nickel/starting job.

CB2 Round 3 of the draft is where I'm looking. Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina
was a name I mentioned in an earlier thread.

Pass rusher2 Round 2 of the draft could nab us Andre Branch.

So then we can use our 1st Rounder to take a LT, I've been calling for Reiff/Martin for quite some time when looked like no quality DEs were going to be available.

[elltrain22]

Where are you? Show some balls and a spine and admit you were wrong.

I was officially wrong for the following:

1) A star free agent would never want to come here
2) Ralph is cheap
3) We will never go after a top free agent
4) The Bills will never be able to sign a top free agent

Where are you? Step up.

I know I'm very guilty. I never thought we had a chance to sign Super Mario. You can probably dig up several posts of mine, that say not to even mention this b/c I didn't even think it was a distinct possibility. I didn't even think it was a possibility for him to visit. I also didn't think Ralph would shell out that much dough, and yes, I did characterize Ralph as cheap before Mario.

I am certainly, happily, eating crow today...

[X-Era]

I'm not expecting it all through free agency but not counting on fill anyone of these holes with no more than 3 rookies. Which gives us 3 or 4 to fill through free agancy.

In free agency I'd be looking for a #2 WR, I think guys like Doucet and Negadee could fil this role. As I do like Michael Floyd too but the fact is rookie WRs producing is a big question mark even if it's in the #2 role. I know last year Julius Jones and AJ Green produced but they were the exception not the rule. Plus allows us to use our top pick on a LT. As I agree there aren't many starting options at LT in UFA.

Backup Center. There's guys gettig cut every day and we might be able to land a veteran. Jeff Faine formerly of the Bucs might be interesting to bring in.

CB1 if we don't get a starter we can find a nickel. I read the 49ers just released Shawntae Spencer who is more affordable than Rogers. I also mentioned in an earlier thread has a connection to Wannestadt from their days at Pitt and he could be a solid guy to add to the mix to compete for a nickel/starting job.

CB2 Round 3 of the draft is where I'm looking. Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina
was a name I mentioned in an earlier thread.

Pass rusher2 Round 2 of the draft could nab us Andre Branch.

So then we can use our 1st Rounder to take a LT, I've been calling for Reiff/Martin for quite some time when looked like no quality DEs were going to be available.So you argued for second tier guys? Who's saying we won't still add them? Still possible and probably likely.

Personally I have no issue with landing a star FA and then adding one or two second tier guys. I agree with you on that. And I still think that's likely. But you seemed to want something much more.

[The Jokeman]

So you argued for second tier guys? Who's saying we won't still add them? Still possible and probably likely.

Personally I have no issue with landing a star FA and then adding one or two second tier guys. I agree with you on that. And I still think that's likely. But you seemed to want something much more.
I'm okay with second tier guys if see them better than what we already have. Hell I thought we were going to end up with Wallace Gilberry at DE this offseason. I'm happier than hell we got Williams but now want to add more. As again the offseason and draft is about getting the best collection of talent. Again guys like John Davis, James Lofton, Kenny Davis were not top tier guys when we added them but they all helped us get better.

[imbondz]

yeah but it still cost the biggest contract in the history of the NFL for a defensive player to get him here. lol

[Bert102176]

I admit you and I were wrong

[better days]

Where are you? Show some balls and a spine and admit you were wrong.

I was officially wrong for the following:

1) A star free agent would never want to come here
2) Ralph is cheap
3) We will never go after a top free agent
4) The Bills will never be able to sign a top free agent

Where are you? Step up.

Yes you were wrong along with many others.

[better days]

yeah but it still cost the biggest contract in the history of the NFL for a defensive player to get him here. lol

Williams would have gotten the biggest contract in the history of the NFL no matter what team signed him.

Does anybody think he would have signed for less than Peppers did with Chicago? I sure don't & I think if Chicago tried to sign him they would have had to pay him more than they did Peppers.

[Buddo]

There are still boatloads of WRs out there who could improve our group. Even the so-called '2nd tier' guys.
I'm pretty confident that when the dust settles some, we will snag one of those guys, at a sensible price.
Just now, there's still a premium on WRs, as too many teams want to get some. The reality is, however, that there are probably more decent WRs out there, than there are spots on teams, so there will still be solid guys we can look at.
In respect of other possible additions, Nix is probably quite correct in assuming there will be some more 'casualties', and they could well occur from whoever Manning decides to sign for.

[TigerJ]

It's partly my psychological profile, but I am naturally hesitant to make hard and fast judgments about things that are outside of my control. At the same time I'm not really offended by people who do, nor do I feel like they need to apologize when wrong. It's just not a big deal to me, but if it makes y'all feel better, go for it.

[PromoTheRobot]

Where's Opi to tell us how the Bills got suckered into overpaying for a guy who can't stay on the field due to injury?

PTR

[OpIv37]

Where are you? Show some balls and a spine and admit you were wrong.

I was officially wrong for the following:

1) A star free agent would never want to come here
2) Ralph is cheap
3) We will never go after a top free agent
4) The Bills will never be able to sign a top free agent

Where are you? Step up.

Completely agree on 1, 3, and 4. I said/agreed with those things many times and I was wrong.

As far as 2, this is what I've said in other threads: I give Ralph a conditional pardon. Signing Mario and re-signing Stevie were good moves that weren't cheap, and they definitely bode well for the future. But I'm not going to give him a pass for being cheap for the overwhelming majority of the last 52 years because of 2 moves. Remember, he spent pretty big in 07, and when it backfired, he went right back to being cheap until the last month.

Mario's contract is big and will limit our FA moves for a few years. If Ralph keeps spending after we get past Mario's cap hit, then I'll give him the full pardon. He's starting to refute the notion that he's cheap, but he isn't there yet.

[OpIv37]

Where's Opi to tell us how the Bills got suckered into overpaying for a guy who can't stay on the field due to injury?

PTR

and crap like this is exactly why I get mad when people try to guess how I would react to a situation that hasn't occurred and then try to use that guess as a point in an argument.

[YardRat]

Ralph never was cheap, that's just a misconception rooted in ignorance.

The guys he hired may not have always spent all of the money, or spent the money wisely instead of making poor choices, but that's piss-poor management not cheap ownership.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

OK, I admit it, I am totally shocked that the Bills were actually able to pull this one off. I guess with the team's future in Buffalo on the line, they actually got desperate and pulled out all the stops.

However, given how many times this team has disappointed in the past decade, I'm still not confident enough to say that this will be enough to get that playoff spot. I still say he'll be injured by week 10. Of course, I could be wrong about that one, too.

[Beebe]

YES, I WAS RIGHT.I didn't give up on my BILLS I just new we would sign him.








THE NEW BILL.

[X-Era]

Completely agree on 1, 3, and 4. I said/agreed with those things many times and I was wrong.

As far as 2, this is what I've said in other threads: I give Ralph a conditional pardon. Signing Mario and re-signing Stevie were good moves that weren't cheap, and they definitely bode well for the future. But I'm not going to give him a pass for being cheap for the overwhelming majority of the last 52 years because of 2 moves. Remember, he spent pretty big in 07, and when it backfired, he went right back to being cheap until the last month.

Mario's contract is big and will limit our FA moves for a few years. If Ralph keeps spending after we get past Mario's cap hit, then I'll give him the full pardon. He's starting to refute the notion that he's cheap, but he isn't there yet.It's illogical to call him cheap after the Mario contract. It's impossible. You can't have the highest paid defensive player in the league and be cheap. That's an oxymoron.

And as I said to Jokeman, I think we still will add a few second tier guys to use some of the rest of our cap.

[alohabillsfan]

The Bills are waiting on Wimberly and Nix also said there will be cap cuts so he is waiting. As far as a #2 WR, with Meecham gone the rest of the guys are no better than Jones or Easly other than the whole health thing LOL.

[DraftBoy]

Yup and never been happier to be wrong.

[DraftBoy]

The idea that Ralph is cheap is illogical and lazy.

He's not cheap, the Bills have just made so many poor decisions about how to spend their money over the years that it cost them the ability to resign their own which in turn some have coined as cheap.

[Historian]

Ralph never was cheap, that's just a misconception rooted in ignorance.

The guys he hired may not have always spent all of the money, or spent the money wisely instead of making poor choices, but that's piss-poor management not cheap ownership.

I agree in part.

The SB years showed us he was willing to spend, sometimes overspend, on players.

Unfortunately, he cheaps out on Coaches and Coordinators, and rewards loyalty over performance.

[OpIv37]

It's illogical to call him cheap after the Mario contract. It's impossible. You can't have the highest paid defensive player in the league and be cheap. That's an oxymoron.

And as I said to Jokeman, I think we still will add a few second tier guys to use some of the rest of our cap.

He did one thing that wasn't cheap once. That doesn't negate 52 years of being cheap.

I could go outside right now and take one 3 point shot and make it. That doesn't make me a 3 point shooter.

[jmb1099]

I agree in part.

The SB years showed us he was willing to spend, sometimes overspend, on players.

Unfortunately, he cheaps out on Coaches and Coordinators, and rewards loyalty over performance.
Exactly

[OpIv37]

The idea that Ralph is cheap is illogical and lazy.


This is dead wrong.

Ralph's coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league.

We went into last season $20 million below the cap, and STILL traded Lee Evans to save an extra $2 million.

We've let countless good players walk over money: Jason Peters, Nate Clements, Pat Williams, London Fletcher, Antoine Winfield, Jonas Jennings- I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I can think of.

And when those guys left, Ralph tried to replace them by simply promoting their back-up or finding a 2nd or 3rd tier FA (often a back-up on their previous team), not by adding someone of equal or better quality.

The only notable exceptions have been 2003 and 2007, but again, both times Ralph re-tightened the purse strings fro years when things didn't go according to plan.

I definitely like the Stevie re-signing and the Williams signing, but if Ralph follows his previous schedule, it'll be 2017 or 2018 before he spends again.

[mysticsoto]

I was wrong but still maintain Ralph is cheap. As sure he's giving a boatload of cash to Mario but the reality is good teams to have depth and/or better coaches than we do. I mean if Nix was serious that we're done in free agency now that Mario's here I'm miffed. As yes Mario is great signing but we can't expect him alone to lead us to the playoffs. As we still have holes at #2 WR, a starting LT and by his own addimission maybe 2 CBs. Also I'd love to have a secondarly pass rusher to add to the mix. I also feel we need a backup Center and like some depth.

Let's see...you are whining that the FO hasn't done anything yet to get 2nd tier players when they JUST finished putting enormous effort to recruit Super Mario? Really???

1st, let's get something straight, for 5-6 games last year, the offense was scoring 30+ pts in EACH game!!! So don't tell me that the WRs that we have are not good enough. We did lose Bell (although they can still sign him if they want to) but other than that, we are no better and certainly no worse on the offense. In fact, Easley can play this yr now. Yes, he has yet to contribute to the team, but he has good potential if he can stay healthy. But we haven't lost anyone else on offense - so if scoring 30+ pts (before Fitz injured his ribs and played badly for the rest of the season) is not good enough for you, then go play some Madden or something...

[Captain gameboy]

Unfortunately, he cheaps out on Coaches and Coordinators, and rewards loyalty over performance.

I think the Dave Wannstedt hiring was the beginning of this entire thing, and I would guess without him, we don't get Mario.

Just a guess, but he added so much credibility and as the DC in waiting, everyone saw the eventual promotion.

I'm very happy he had the relationship with Chan, and pleased things are going the way they seem to be.

[YardRat]

He did one thing that wasn't cheap once. That doesn't negate 52 years of being cheap.

I could go outside right now and take one 3 point shot and make it. That doesn't make me a 3 point shooter.

This ain't the first time the Bills have ponied up a contract to make a player the highest paid on defense.

[YardRat]

Ralph's coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league.

Still waiting for something other than your opinion on this, still haven't seen anything to back it up.

[justasportsfan]

Completely agree on 1, 3, and 4. I said/agreed with those things many times and I was wrong.

As far as 2, this is what I've said in other threads: I give Ralph a conditional pardon. Signing Mario and re-signing Stevie were good moves that weren't cheap, and they definitely bode well for the future. But I'm not going to give him a pass for being cheap for the overwhelming majority of the last 52 years because of 2 moves. Remember, he spent pretty big in 07, and when it backfired, he went right back to being cheap until the last month.

Mario's contract is big and will limit our FA moves for a few years. If Ralph keeps spending after we get past Mario's cap hit, then I'll give him the full pardon. He's starting to refute the notion that he's cheap, but he isn't there yet.


Polian was interviewed and he never implied that Ralph was cheap at all or that he wasn't wiling to spend. When they signed Kelly he told Ralph that it would make Kelly the highest paid player and Polian said Ralph was willing to do what needs to be done. Bennett, Paup , Dockery etc.etc. Ralph will spend when the GM advices him to.

Your sources blow.

[DraftBoy]

This is dead wrong.

Ralph's coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league.

We went into last season $20 million below the cap, and STILL traded Lee Evans to save an extra $2 million.

We've let countless good players walk over money: Jason Peters, Nate Clements, Pat Williams, London Fletcher, Antoine Winfield, Jonas Jennings- I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I can think of.

And when those guys left, Ralph tried to replace them by simply promoting their back-up or finding a 2nd or 3rd tier FA (often a back-up on their previous team), not by adding someone of equal or better quality.

The only notable exceptions have been 2003 and 2007, but again, both times Ralph re-tightened the purse strings fro years when things didn't go according to plan.

I definitely like the Stevie re-signing and the Williams signing, but if Ralph follows his previous schedule, it'll be 2017 or 2018 before he spends again.

I like you ignore the actual point of my argument and only quote the easiest part to make your claim against.

Like I said you're argument is a lazy one and you just proved why.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

I was wrong about Russ Brandon. He played a critical part in landing Williams.

[OpIv37]

I like you ignore the actual point of my argument and only quote the easiest part to make your claim against.

Like I said you're argument is a lazy one and you just proved why.

You calling the argument "lazy" doesn't make it so.

You stated that the Bills have made bad decisions with spending their money, which is true, but that argument doesn't account for the numerous times when they made the bad decisions to NOT spend money, like the ones I've listed.

Problem #1 is that the Bills don't spend money. Problem #2 is that when they do spend, they make poor decisions. Your argument just ignores #1.

[justasportsfan]

You calling the argument "lazy" doesn't make it so.




lol. Your thinking you were NOT wrong, doesn't make it so.

[OpIv37]

lol. You're thinking you were NOT wrong, doesn't make it so.

I'm not wrong, but as usual you think majority opinion determines right and wrong.

[Bill Cody]

I admit it right here and now....
Hurkeynuts was wrong

[djjimkelly]

When did nix and chan fail us....most people wrote them off bc of ralph

I was always annoyed that people never gave them a chance to do what they said from day 1

3 yrs

Build in draft
Then sign pieces in fa

buddy is the ultimate straight shooter

[justasportsfan]

I'm not wrong, .

your thinking that, doesn't make it so.

[better days]

I'm not wrong, but as usual you think majority opinion determines right and wrong.

The vast majority of the time, on any subject, the majority is right.

[DraftBoy]

This is dead wrong.

Ralph's coaches are consistently amongst the lowest paid in the league.

We went into last season $20 million below the cap, and STILL traded Lee Evans to save an extra $2 million.

We've let countless good players walk over money: Jason Peters, Nate Clements, Pat Williams, London Fletcher, Antoine Winfield, Jonas Jennings- I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I can think of.

And when those guys left, Ralph tried to replace them by simply promoting their back-up or finding a 2nd or 3rd tier FA (often a back-up on their previous team), not by adding someone of equal or better quality.

The only notable exceptions have been 2003 and 2007, but again, both times Ralph re-tightened the purse strings fro years when things didn't go according to plan.

I definitely like the Stevie re-signing and the Williams signing, but if Ralph follows his previous schedule, it'll be 2017 or 2018 before he spends again.

Jesus Christ Op do you of all people really needed it broken down?

Ok so we were 20 million under last season and traded Lee Evans? How the hell does that say anything about being cheap? He was unhappy (per reports accurate or not) and wanted a move. We did that, had little to do with money by almost every account.

You want to prove you're not making a lazy argument, fine...here are the specific players you named in the post above;
Jason Peters
Nate Clements
Pat Williams
London Fletcher
Antoine Winfield
Jonas Jennings

I need you to prove that we had the cap room to sign these guys to the same deals they got on the open market. I won't even bring up the fact that guys like Nate Clements had no interest in resigning here. Just prove that we even had the room to do it.

The rest of your post is mindless ranting of **** talent, and **** replacements which nobody disagrees on. However simply saying we let player X, Y, and Z walk without even attempting to prove that we could afford them is lazy.

You know it and I know it. Its an argument of conveinence.

[justasportsfan]

Jesus Christ Op do you of all people really needed it broken down?

Ok so we were 20 million under last season and traded Lee Evans? How the hell does that say anything about being cheap? He was unhappy (per reports accurate or not) and wanted a move. We did that, had little to do with money by almost every account.



Evans was paid a huge amount when he was resigned because the coach back then wanted to keep him. Chan made it no secret he wanted taller players and Lee was not going to be part of the future. Because of that, it was a good move to trade him and clear some cap which led to us signing a player and make him the highest paid defensive player. OP is too clouded by his whines to even see that. Lee was paid when the coach/GM told Ralphy to.

[HAMMER]

You were wrong.

Seeing you whine like a little girl was priceless. I especially liked when you said "F@#% you Mario", when his decision took longer than you thought it should.

[OpIv37]

The vast majority of the time, on any subject, the majority is right.

That's not true at all.

The majority of people are idiots who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.

[justasportsfan]

The majority of people are idiots who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.


have you heard the saying "it takes one to know one" ?

[OpIv37]

Jesus Christ Op do you of all people really needed it broken down?

Ok so we were 20 million under last season and traded Lee Evans? How the hell does that say anything about being cheap? He was unhappy (per reports accurate or not) and wanted a move. We did that, had little to do with money by almost every account.

You want to prove you're not making a lazy argument, fine...here are the specific players you named in the post above;
Jason Peters
Nate Clements
Pat Williams
London Fletcher
Antoine Winfield
Jonas Jennings

I need you to prove that we had the cap room to sign these guys to the same deals they got on the open market. I won't even bring up the fact that guys like Nate Clements had no interest in resigning here. Just prove that we even had the room to do it.

The rest of your post is mindless ranting of **** talent, and **** replacements which nobody disagrees on. However simply saying we let player X, Y, and Z walk without even attempting to prove that we could afford them is lazy.

You know it and I know it. Its an argument of conveinence.

Why do you think guys like Clements had no intention of signing here? BECAUSE RALPH DOESN'T PAY WHAT OTHER TEAMS DID.

And I don't have the cap numbers for all years that all those guys left, but I do know we had the cap room for Peters because he didn't sign for all that much more than we offered him. And I don't recall "we don't have the cap room" ever being the defense. It was always "he got too much money" because Russ Brandon's PR machine has brainwashed Bills fans into thinking that spending money on players is always bad.

And seriously, if we didn't have the cap room to keep those guys, who the hell were we spending it on? We've had very few big contracts over the last 12 years because RALPH IS CHEAP.

And even if I give you that Lee Evans wanted out (and I shouldn't because even you admit you don't know the accuracy of the reports), we were $20 MILLION under the cap. And we were so short on OL talent that we had to re-shuffle the line with every injury. Do you honestly believe there was no OL depth out there for $20 ****ing million? It was cheap. There's just no way to argue against it.

[OpIv37]

have you heard the saying "it takes one to know one" ?

Great response. Will your next move be to close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALA"? Or will you go with a sing-songy "I know you are but what am I"?

[OpIv37]

Evans was paid a huge amount when he was resigned because the coach back then wanted to keep him. Chan made it no secret he wanted taller players and Lee was not going to be part of the future. Because of that, it was a good move to trade him and clear some cap which led to us signing a player and make him the highest paid defensive player. OP is too clouded by his whines to even see that. Lee was paid when the coach/GM told Ralphy to.

where's the taller WR? How was that money re-invested in the team? Answer: it wasn't.

That's being cheap.

[justasportsfan]

where's the taller WR? How was that money re-invested in the team? Answer: it wasn't.

That's being cheap.

they had hoped Jones would be the guy. The money went towards signing Mario. Mario came cheap . Mkay?

Why do you keep ignoring the part where they paid Lee a ton to extend him? Thought so.

[trapezeus]

i think ralph showed over the years that money isn't his downfall, football IQ is. And he failed to retain the best parts of his organization several times thinking other answers are better.

he's done that from day 1 to today. it just happens that the last 2 years, he found a new group of people who get through to him and he's following. Obviously mario isn't an endall be all, but it's a solid move on paper. which for the ralph of the last 10 years is a great leap forward.

[Mski]

Mario's contract is big and will limit our FA moves for a few years. If Ralph keeps spending after we get past Mario's cap hit, then I'll give him the full pardon. He's starting to refute the notion that he's cheap, but he isn't there yet.not likely with the salary cap supposed to have HUGE increases the next two years

[mysticsoto]

Why do you think guys like Clements had no intention of signing here? BECAUSE RALPH DOESN'T PAY WHAT OTHER TEAMS DID.

And I don't have the cap numbers for all years that all those guys left, but I do know we had the cap room for Peters because he didn't sign for all that much more than we offered him. And I don't recall "we don't have the cap room" ever being the defense. It was always "he got too much money" because Russ Brandon's PR machine has brainwashed Bills fans into thinking that spending money on players is always bad.

And seriously, if we didn't have the cap room to keep those guys, who the hell were we spending it on? We've had very few big contracts over the last 12 years because RALPH IS CHEAP.

And even if I give you that Lee Evans wanted out (and I shouldn't because even you admit you don't know the accuracy of the reports), we were $20 MILLION under the cap. And we were so short on OL talent that we had to re-shuffle the line with every injury. Do you honestly believe there was no OL depth out there for $20 ****ing million? It was cheap. There's just no way to argue against it.

Just about everyone here agreed that Nate was not worth the money he got in SF. Do you dispute that and say he was worth it? B'cse while you're ranting about not spending, you're ignoring the fact that they consider what one is worth also.

Same w/Jonas Jennings. He was voted to the probowl quite a bit, but many of us felt it was undeserved. Was he also worth it? Did he go on to glory after he left here?

Out of those you listed, Pat Williams is probably the only one that has success afterward and would have been worth keeping. However, getting rid of him was not about money either. That was Mularkey who didn't know what he was doing, had no business being a head coach and also got rid of Rusty and damaged us for years to come...

[OpIv37]

they had hoped Jones would be the guy. The money went towards signing Mario. Mario came cheap . Mkay?

Why do you keep ignoring the part where they paid Lee a ton to extend him? Thought so.

One guy, vs the whole list of guys I mentioned that they let walk.

When all else fails, rely on the BZ mantra of using the exception to prove the rule.

[OpIv37]

Just about everyone here agreed that Nate was not worth the money he got in SF. Do you dispute that and say he was worth it? B'cse while you're ranting about not spending, you're ignoring the fact that they consider what one is worth also.

Same w/Jonas Jennings. He was voted to the probowl quite a bit, but many of us felt it was undeserved. Was he also worth it? Did he go on to glory after he left here?

Out of those you listed, Pat Williams is probably the only one that has success afterward and would have been worth keeping. However, getting rid of him was not about money either. That was Mularkey who didn't know what he was doing, had no business being a head coach and also got rid of Rusty and damaged us for years to come...

The bolded part isn't true. Winfield and Fletcher were great after leaving Buffalo. Peters struggled early in Philly but has been playing really well more recently and is still far better than anyone we've had at T since.

Of the guys I listed, the only one who was a bust after getting paid was Clements. And I don't know about Jennings cuz I didn't pay any attention to him after he left.

And, of course, your whole argument is based on hindsight. No one at the time thought Clements or Jennings would bust after getting their contracts. Ralph didn't have a crystal ball to tell him not to pay these guys.

[justasportsfan]

Great response. Will your next move be to close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALA"? Or will you go with a sing-songy "I know you are but what am I"?
:ignore:

[justasportsfan]

One guy, vs the whole list of guys I mentioned that they let walk.

When all else fails, rely on the BZ mantra of using the exception to prove the rule.


One guy? Lol. I pointed out one guy because you tried to use him as an example and yet your example was actually proof that Ralph paid him a huge amount. Lol.

[justasportsfan]

Of the guys I listed, the only one who was a bust after getting paid was Clements. And I don't know about Jennings cuz I didn't pay any attention to him after he left.

.


So why did you use him as an example when you are clueless about the outcome? Your examples blow but I realize you're desperate.


How about you use Posey as an example " :snicker:

[mysticsoto]

The bolded part isn't true. Winfield and Fletcher were great after leaving Buffalo. Peters struggled early in Philly but has been playing really well more recently and is still far better than anyone we've had at T since.

Of the guys I listed, the only one who was a bust after getting paid was Clements. And I don't know about Jennings cuz I didn't pay any attention to him after he left.

And, of course, your whole argument is based on hindsight. No one at the time thought Clements or Jennings would bust after getting their contracts. Ralph didn't have a crystal ball to tell him not to pay these guys.

LOL! 1st, Winfield and Fletcher did ok. They weren't superstars by any stretch. 2nd, it may be hindsight for ME to now acknowledge that these people flopped, but clearly the FO knew they weren't worth huge contracts. That's not hindsight for them - they coached these people and knew what they were and weren't capable of - something neither you nor I are privy to.

So if that's your only argument, you just fell flat on your face. Care to make any others, or will you continue the lazy argument DB is accusing you of without providing any real rationale to back you up?

[mysticsoto]

So why did you use him as an example when you are clueless about the outcome? Your examples blow but I realize you're desperate.


How about you use Posey as an example " :snicker:

Maybe he thinks they are cheap b'cse they wouldn't pay Maybin too...

[justasportsfan]

.

And, of course, your whole argument is based on hindsight.


holy crap OP. There's so much proof around here that your opinion on Fletcher was based on hindsight. You were against him before you were for him. Same goes with Jason Peters.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe he thinks they are cheap b'cse they wouldn't pay Maybin too...


forget Maybin, we're cheap because we wouldn't pay Whitner. The FO failed for not re-signing Whitner and POz. :D

[OpIv37]

One guy? Lol. I pointed out one guy because you tried to use him as an example and yet your example was actually proof that Ralph paid him a huge amount. Lol.

what?

At best, Ralph is even on Lee. He paid him, then traded him to save $2 million when we were $20 million under the cap. That's no better than a wash.

[OpIv37]

holy crap OP. There's so much proof around here that your opinion on Fletcher was based on hindsight. You were against him before you were for him. Same goes with Jason Peters.

I'm pretty sure you're right on Fletcher- that I didn't care at the time, but I think you're wrong on Peters. I'm pretty sure I wanted to keep him at the time.

[Bill Cody]

where's the taller WR?

We've got the Ravens 4th for Lee yet to use. Stay tuned.

[justasportsfan]

what?

At best, Ralph is even on Lee. He paid him, then traded him to save $2 million when we were $20 million under the cap. That's no better than a wash.

Even if its a wash, that makes you WRONG to use him as an example.

Nix said it , keeping Lee takes snaps away and prevents the players they wanted to develop from doing so.

Then again I'm sure you have your own source, yourself.

[mysticsoto]

I'm pretty sure you're right on Fletcher- that I didn't care at the time, but I think you're wrong on Peters. I'm pretty sure I wanted to keep him at the time.

I was a big fan of Peters (as you may remember) but even I have to admit that he got lazy after his new contract and has been overpaid at Philly. You can call that hindsight again, but they worked with him - perhaps they saw this in his character.

[OpIv37]

LOL! 1st, Winfield and Fletcher did ok. They weren't superstars by any stretch. 2nd, it may be hindsight for ME to now acknowledge that these people flopped, but clearly the FO knew they weren't worth huge contracts. That's not hindsight for them - they coached these people and knew what they were and weren't capable of - something neither you nor I are privy to.

So if that's your only argument, you just fell flat on your face. Care to make any others, or will you continue the lazy argument DB is accusing you of without providing any real rationale to back you up?

Fletcher was far better than OK. Believe me, I' was in the DC market- I saw him play a LOT, including live a couple of times. He was very, very good after leaving Buffalo.

And honestly, look at this team's track record in the draft. Do you REALLY think the same people that made all those terrible decisions had the foresight to see that Clements and Jennings weren't worth it? That's just illogical.

[justasportsfan]

I'm pretty sure you're right on Fletcher- that I didn't care at the time, but I think you're wrong on Peters. I'm pretty sure I wanted to keep him at the time.


you wanted to keep Peters and then said you were wrong after a horrible season and now you're back to , I was right after a good season. You flipflop your opinion based on how they performed.

[mysticsoto]

Fletcher was far better than OK. Believe me, I' was in the DC market- I saw him play a LOT, including live a couple of times. He was very, very good after leaving Buffalo.

And honestly, look at this team's track record in the draft. Do you REALLY think the same people that made all those terrible decisions had the foresight to see that Clements and Jennings weren't worth it? That's just illogical.

Which time period are talking about? You can't just lump it all together. Different people have had different responsibilities over the years.

And we're starting to deviate from the main pt that you have yet to justify Ralph's "cheapness"...

[OpIv37]

Nix said it , keeping Lee takes snaps away and prevents the players they wanted to develop from doing so.


What the hell kind of bull**** logic is that?

Well, guess we shouldn't have re-signed Stevie because now Ruvell Martin won't get as many snaps.

Guess we shouldn't have signed Mario Williams because he'll take snaps from Carrington.

And how is Johnny White ever going to reach his full potential if we keep wasting snaps by putting Spiller and Jackson on the field?

[OpIv37]

Which time period are talking about? You can't just lump it all together. Different people have had different responsibilities over the years.

And we're starting to deviate from the main pt that you have yet to justify Ralph's "cheapness"...

And all those different people have blown drafts. So take your pick- it doesn't matter because they've all been incompetent.

I justified Ralph's cheapness. I provided a whole list of ways he was cheap. You refusing to acknowledge the facts doesn't mean I didn't justify it.

[mysticsoto]

And all those different people have blown drafts. So take your pick- it doesn't matter because they've all been incompetent.

I justified Ralph's cheapness. I provided a whole list of ways he was cheap. You refusing to acknowledge the facts doesn't mean I didn't justify it.

Your list was refuted and shown to be a farce. Please show me what other rationale arguments you may think you have...

[justasportsfan]

What the hell kind of bull**** logic is that?

Well, guess we shouldn't have re-signed Stevie because now Ruvell Martin won't get as many snaps.

Guess we shouldn't have signed Mario Williams because he'll take snaps from Carrington.

And how is Johnny White ever going to reach his full potential if we keep wasting snaps by putting Spiller and Jackson on the field?


Sigh. They wanted Stevie to be a MAJOR part of the future. Lee was not part of their future ! So intead of keeping someone they had no plans of re-signing , let them see what they had in Jones at the smae time save some cap. Whats so hard to understand about that?

They want Mario to be a MAJOR part of the future, Whats so hard to understand about that.

Getting rid of players they don't plan on re-signing is done by every team. :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

Your list was refuted and shown to be a farce. Please show me what other rationale arguments you may think you have...

It wasn't refuted at all. There was an attempt to refute it, but it wasn't refuted.

[mysticsoto]

It wasn't refuted at all. There was an attempt to refute it, but it wasn't refuted.

Please tell me what wasn't refuted. You listed some names most of which were not worth keeping and most of which got huge contracts and were clearly overpaid and you are using that as proof that you are right???

[justasportsfan]

It wasn't refuted at all. There was an attempt to refute it, but it wasn't refuted.


you went from cutting Lee Evans was a cheap move to


what?

At best, Ralph is even on Lee. He paid him, then traded him to save $2 million when we were $20 million under the cap. That's no better than a wash.


You refuted yourself . :snicker:

[OpIv37]

Please tell me what wasn't refuted. You listed some names most of which were not worth keeping and most of which got huge contracts and were clearly overpaid and you are using that as proof that you are right???
The majority of the names I listed were worth keeping. Only one- arguably two- were overpaid.

[mysticsoto]

The majority of the names I listed were worth keeping. Only one- arguably two- were overpaid.

Nate Clements & Jonas Jennings were WAY overpaid. Antoine Winfield was a solid tackler, but couldn't intercept a ball to save his life. Fletcher was let go b'cse we were going to a diff scheme that he wasn't going to fit well into. Pat W. was a casualty of Mularkey's crazy ideas. He wanted tricky players rather than good ones. Evans doesn't fit well with Nix and Chan liking tall WRs - same reason we are not looking into Manningham right now.

What else don't you understand???

[OpIv37]

Nate Clements & Jonas Jennings were WAY overpaid. Antoine Winfield was a solid tackler, but couldn't intercept a ball to save his life. Fletcher was let go b'cse we were going to a diff scheme that he wasn't going to fit well into. Pat W. was a casualty of Mularkey's crazy ideas. He wanted tricky players rather than good ones. Evans doesn't fit well with Nix and Chan liking tall WRs - same reason we are not looking into Manningham right now.

What else don't you understand???

Clements I'll give you.

Jennings- I don't know.

Winfield was not overpaid- he was good. If a coach can't find a use for a guy with Fletcher's talent, he's not much of a coach. I hate that "system" argument.

I don't believe that Pat Williams was released because Mularkey was stupid. I don't remember that at all, and if they did say that, it was the BS excuse when they didn't want to pay him (because they're cheap).

If Chan and Nix like tall WR's, why don't we have any yet? What are they waiting for?

What else do you not understand? You're selling players short in a failed attempt to make your point.

[DraftBoy]

It wasn't refuted at all. There was an attempt to refute it, but it wasn't refuted.

No there was a request for you to provide accurate information to defend your point, you're failure or willingness to do so is a by default as refutation (is that a verb?).

[Mski]

Clements I'll give you.

Jennings- I don't know.

Winfield was not overpaid- he was good. If a coach can't find a use for a guy with Fletcher's talent, he's not much of a coach. I hate that "system" argument.

I don't believe that Pat Williams was released because Mularkey was stupid. I don't remember that at all, and if they did say that, it was the BS excuse when they didn't want to pay him (because they're cheap).

If Chan and Nix like tall WR's, why don't we have any yet? What are they waiting for?

What else do you not understand? You're selling players short in a failed attempt to make your point.Nelson is very tall, SJ is over 6ft and so is Easley(although i'll give you that he doesnt really count)

[mysticsoto]

Clements I'll give you.

Jennings- I don't know.

Winfield was not overpaid- he was good. If a coach can't find a use for a guy with Fletcher's talent, he's not much of a coach. I hate that "system" argument.

I don't believe that Pat Williams was released because Mularkey was stupid. I don't remember that at all, and if they did say that, it was the BS excuse when they didn't want to pay him (because they're cheap).

If Chan and Nix like tall WR's, why don't we have any yet? What are they waiting for?

What else do you not understand? You're selling players short in a failed attempt to make your point.

Winfield was let go b'cse it was deemed that in his 2nd year, McGee was looking good enough to take over. And so he did.

The Fletcher issue had to do with coaching scheme issue and not $$$. If you want to blame coaching on that, I'm fine with that.

Pat Williams was believed to be too old to be in the plans of the next regime and I too disagreed with that, but again, it was less about $$$ and more about his age and scheme we were going too (smaller and faster seemed to be the failed theme).

As for tall WRs, Stevie is 6'2". Aiken - 6'2". Easley - 6'2", Ruvell Martin 6'4", David Nelson - 6'5". Brad Smith - 6'2". Donald Jones and Naaman Roosevelt are the shortest at 6'0". Clearly they favor the 6'2" and above. Meachem, by the way, was 6'2".

So...where did you prove anything? Is this an ego thing for you at this point - where you can't admit it even though it's obvious you're wrong?

[justasportsfan]

Is this an ego thing for you at this point - where you can't admit it even though it's obvious you're wrong?

you don't know the answer to that yet mystic?

OP is not always wrong but he's never right :snicker:

[OpIv37]

No there was a request for you to provide accurate information to defend your point, you're failure or willingness to do so is a by default as refutation (is that a verb?).

no, it's not.

It was YOUR contention that we didn't have the cap space to find them. It was MY contention that we didn't sign them because they were cheap. Therefore, the onus should be on you to prove your contention, not me.

[OpIv37]

Winfield was let go b'cse it was deemed that in his 2nd year, McGee was looking good enough to take over. And so he did.

The Fletcher issue had to do with coaching scheme issue and not $$$. If you want to blame coaching on that, I'm fine with that.

Pat Williams was believed to be too old to be in the plans of the next regime and I too disagreed with that, but again, it was less about $$$ and more about his age and scheme we were going too (smaller and faster seemed to be the failed theme).

As for tall WRs, Stevie is 6'2". Aiken - 6'2". Easley - 6'2", Ruvell Martin 6'4", David Nelson - 6'5". Brad Smith - 6'2". Donald Jones and Naaman Roosevelt are the shortest at 6'0". Clearly they favor the 6'2" and above. Meachem, by the way, was 6'2".

So...where did you prove anything? Is this an ego thing for you at this point - where you can't admit it even though it's obvious you're wrong?

It's not an ego thing at all. I'm not wrong. You are underselling players to make your point.

[mysticsoto]

It's not an ego thing at all. I'm not wrong. You are underselling players to make your point.

LOL! That's your big defense??? Thank god you're not a lawyer...

[OpIv37]

LOL! That's your big defense??? Thank god you're not a lawyer...

lmao.

You buy into the FO's bull**** every time they don't pay a player, and then you try to blame it on my arguing ability? Please.

[mysticsoto]

lmao.

You buy into the FO's bull**** every time they don't pay a player, and then you try to blame it on my arguing ability? Please.

Your honor, given the prosecution's inability to prove their case, despite numerous attempts at humoring them, I move for it's dismissal.

All in favor?

[OpIv37]

Your honor, given the prosecution's inability to prove their case, despite numerous attempts at humoring them, I move for it's dismissal.

All in favor?

I proved my case.

I showed you a bunch of quality players that Ralph didn't pay. All you did was regurgitate the FO's bull**** excuses for not paying them because you don't want to believe that Ralph is cheap.

And you never even tried to refute the points about Ralph's coaches being consistently amongst the lowest paid in the NFL or going into last year $20 million below the cap, especially with all the OL issues we had.

[justasportsfan]

And you never even tried to refute the points about Ralph's coaches being consistently amongst the lowest paid in the NFL or going into last year $20 million below the cap, especially with all the OL issues we had.


I refuted it but you chose to ignore it. Donahoe wanted "yes Maam" coaches because he lost his power struggle with Cowher. Donahoe himself was not a cheap nobody when Ralph hired hm.

Donahoe picked Greg and Mularkey. When Mularkey left Ralph wanted Martz but Levy wanted Jauron. When Juaron got fired the bills approached Cowher and Shanahan. Both said not thanks.

Ignore that all you want.

[mysticsoto]

I proved my case.

I showed you a bunch of quality players that Ralph didn't pay. All you did was regurgitate the FO's bull**** excuses for not paying them because you don't want to believe that Ralph is cheap.

And you never even tried to refute the points about Ralph's coaches being consistently amongst the lowest paid in the NFL or going into last year $20 million below the cap, especially with all the OL issues we had.

Let the record show that I showed the so called "quality players" that Op provided as either being overpaid in their next assignment (two of which he agreed) or provided other reasons (the REAL reasons) why they were not paid - which Op refuses to acknowledge or listen to. In his mind, $$$ are the only reason possible.

As to the coaches, your point becomes less pronounced. Coaches make alot less money than players. I'd accept that Ralph has made a poor choices of them (or perhaps rather GMs which in turn pick the coaches) - but there is no substantial proof provided that indicates Ralph is cheap overall. A cheap person does not pay $100 million out to 1 player.

Again, I move for a dismissal with the rationale that the case being presented lacks sufficient evidence as provided by the prosecution.

[SABURZFAN]

The vast majority of the time, on any subject, the majority is right.


not in the Billszone. that's been proven NUMEROUS times.

[SABURZFAN]

That's not true at all.

The majority of people are idiots who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.


that has been proven in the Billszone NUMEROUS times too.

[DraftBoy]

no, it's not.

It was YOUR contention that we didn't have the cap space to find them. It was MY contention that we didn't sign them because they were cheap. Therefore, the onus should be on you to prove your contention, not me.

That is both illogical and ass backwards. You should be ashamed of yourself for evern attempting it.

You made a claim, I called you on it and asked you to prove it. You refuse, discussion over.

[Mski]

not in the Billszone. that's been proven NUMEROUS times.actually what it has proven is that most of the time we were right, but we were "outsmarted" by the FO

[SABURZFAN]

lmao.

You buy into the FO's bull**** every time they don't pay a player, and then you try to blame it on my arguing ability? Please.


he's even worse in the Spin Zone.

[mysticsoto]

he's even worse in the Spin Zone.

Yes, I show you up there often too. Better you stay out. That one is more for adults...

[SABURZFAN]

actually what it has proven is that most of the time we were right, but we were "outsmarted" by the FO


:roflmao:


i rest my case.

[SABURZFAN]

Yes, I show you up there often too. Better you stay out. That one is more for adults...


:roflmao:


see what i mean......

[mysticsoto]

:roflmao:


see what i mean......

Simple people tend to laugh alot - You must live in a blissful world...

[SABURZFAN]

Simple people tend to laugh alot - You must live in a blissful world...


only when i read comments from idiots like you.

[mysticsoto]

only when i read comments from idiots like you.

As usual, you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. Not in the spin zone and not even here...

You're only good for a few laughs and that's about it.

[SABURZFAN]

As usual, you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. Not in the spin zone and not even here...

You're only good for a few laughs and that's about it.


as usual, neither do you. :rolleyes:

[mysticsoto]

as usual, neither do you. :rolleyes:

Reread the thread after you reconnect the Hooked on Phonics tape at home...then maybe you can follow the discussion better.

[SABURZFAN]

Reread the thread after you reconnect the Hooked on Phonics tape at home...then maybe you can follow the discussion better.


keep repeating the title of this thread and you'll tell the truth for once.

[mysticsoto]

keep repeating the title of this thread and you'll tell the truth for once.

Still adding nothing to the conversation...

[SABURZFAN]

Still adding nothing to the conversation...


... and you're in denial... AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

[YardRat]

For me, watching OpI and mystic argue is like watching a Dolphins/Cowboys Super Bowl.

[mysticsoto]

For me, watching OpI and mystic argue is like watching a Dolphins/Cowboys Super Bowl.

You mean with cool commercials and everything, right? ;)

[Mski]

For me, watching OpI and mystic argue is like watching a Dolphins/Cowboys Super Bowl.is it possible for both to lose?

[YardRat]

is it possible for both to lose?

In this instance, it's a given.

[Historian]

I think the biggest example of Ralph not being cheap in FA is the one he kept:

He matched Denver's offer to Bruce Smith. Cost him a bunch.

OJ too. Renegotiated him often.

Losing Ahmad Rashad always burned me though.

Cribbs and Cousineau too.

[YardRat]

I think the biggest example of Ralph not being cheap in FA is the one he kept:

He matched Denver's offer to Bruce Smith. Cost him a bunch.

OJ too. Renegotiated him often.

Losing Ahmad Rashad always burned me though.

Cribbs and Cousineau too.

Rashad didn't want to be here...but I didn't like losing him either. Neither did Cribbs, and thank God Cousineau thought he was worth a lot more than he actually was.

I didn't like losing Winfield, Pat Williams or Wolford, though.