PDA

View Full Version : Buddy Nix's draft history (one year later)



psubills62
04-10-2012, 11:47 PM
Well, I was going to wait until I had more time to post this, but the draft is about to happen - coming up fast. So here's my follow-up to last year's post about Buddy Nix's draft history. Sorry for the long post. Important parts are bolded for those who skim (like myself).

Here's a link to the post from last year (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=199778), if you would like to read it along with the predictions I made (in January, it should be noted). Some of them didn't turn out (like my prediction that we wouldn't draft a RB), but in general my observations turned out pretty well: 1) I said that DE and DB were two very highly regarded positions, and our first two picks were a DE and a DB, 2) I predicted a couple of LB's in the mid rounds, at least one in rounds 3-5, and we drafted Sheppard and White, 3) I predicted at least one OL in the later rounds, we drafted Hairston in the 4th and Jasper in the 7th (I'm going to count him as OL).

This time around, I've included both of the Buffalo drafts that have already occurred. If I had the time, one thing I'd do is take the numbers of players drafted at each position for Buffalo the last two years and compare to the numbers of players drafted for San Diego. This way we can see what positions Nix might be more inclined to draft in the coming years.

I'll say that the same disclaimers apply now as they did in my post last year.

Anyway, here's the updated summary of players drafted (supplementary draft and punters/kickers not included):
QB - 5 total, average drafted position of 107.8
RB - 8 total, average of 111.9
WR - 7 total, average of 104.1
TE - 2 total, average of 116
OG/C - 4 total, average of 131
OT - 14 total, average of 171
DT - 4 total, average of 178.8
DE - 6 total, average of 61.5
LB - 12 total, average of 128.3
DB - 14 total, average of 89.8

The conclusions that can be reached from this data are essentially the same as last year. Mostly because Nix's draft last year followed these averages very closely.

I'm going to briefly insert a mathematical discussion here in the quote box. For those who aren't interested, feel free to skip it, but it's something that I'm looking at to help extend this analysis.

For a typical Gaussian profile (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Standard_deviation_diagram.svg/325px-Standard_deviation_diagram.svg.png), two values can essentially define the profile: mean and standard deviation. When discussing trends, just looking at the mean does not provide all of the data, even if the trends are entirely Gaussian.

Similarly, the mean value of the draft slot of the positions do not tell the whole story, especially when there is relatively small amount of data to work with. Is the average draft position of the quarterbacks really representative of when they're drafted? The standard deviation of the five QB's slot that Nix has drafted is 99.8. So what does that tell us? Essentially that the majority of the time (about 68%) of the QB's are drafted between slots 8 and 207, which accounts for all but about 40 draft slots. This doesn't tell us much, except that knowing what we do, we can assume that very few of the QB's are actually drafted near that average value, which is true. The exact slots that each of those QB's were drafted are: 1, 32, 216, 81, and 209. The apparent observation from this data is that the selection doesn't follow a Gaussian curve. Nonetheless, we can find a few more numbers that help us make some conclusions.

One of the numbers that I used this time was skewness, which essentially tells us how asymmetric the distribution is. As an example, let's say we have five test grades for students: 100, 99, 98, 97, and 0. Obviously an extreme example, but the average value for this "distribution" is 78.8. The skewness is -2.23, though, indicating that the distribution is actually weighted towards one side, in this case towards the higher numbers. Thus, we can say that for our purpose, if a positional group has a negative skewness, then it is weighted towards the lower rounds (higher number draft slot), and a positive skew is weighted towards higher rounds than the average value. I consider a skew value of absolute value of ~0.5 or higher to be significant.
For those who skipped, the important part is bolded in the quote box. There are a few important skew values, listed here:

OT: -0.65
DT: -1.81
DE: 0.42
LB: -0.076
DB: 0.89

One final note I'll make before providing some summary conclusions is that I like to differentiate between two types of priority that Nix puts on certain positions. One is quantity, the other is quality. Drafting a lot of a position (no matter where it is) indicates a quantity of priority, whereas drafting a position very early indicates a quality priority.

Here's the summary observations:
1) Defensive backs are a high priority in both ways - quantity and quality. Nix drafts them highly and often, as indicated by the high numbers (14 in 10 drafts, average slot of 89.8 and skew of 0.89)
2) Defensive ends are a quality priority - only 6 in 10 drafts, but average slot of 61.5 with a positive skew of 0.42.
3) Offensive tackles are a quantity priority, and the opposite of a quality priority. Only one has been drafted before the 3rd round (Marcus McNeill in the 2nd). 14 total in 10 years, average draft position of 171 with a negative skew of -0.65.
4) Defensive tackles are a low priority in both ways - only 4 over 10 years (one of those in this analysis is Jasper, even though in my head I count him as an OL now), average slot of 179 and a high negative skew of -1.81. Troup was the only DT not selected in the 7th round, though 4 of them is not a large sample size.
5) Linebackers are a high quantity priority and a medium quality priority. The skew is extremely close to zero, which indicates symmetry around the average draft slot of 128.3. From observation, linebackers tend to be drafted in the mid rounds (3-5).

The other positions generally don't have noteworthy numbers, except that TE's are rarely drafted. When they are, it's in the middle rounds.

I'm finding this year much harder to predict than last year, but here's my predictions anyway for 2012:
1) We will draft at least one WR, probably 2+. Nix has only drafted one in two years at Buffalo, while he drafted 6 in 10 years in San Diego. In 2011, Nix did not draft a single WR for Buffalo. So what happened in San Diego in years following drafts without a WR? There were four drafts without WR's in SD. One of them he retired immediately after. One of them a single WR was selected (round 6), and two of them had two WR's selected (rounds 2 and 5 during one year, rounds 1 and 5 in another).
2) We will draft at least one DB, most likely 2+. One will be in the top 3-4 rounds.
3) If Nix is going to mimic his outlier OT pick of Marcus McNeill, it will be this year given our need. Expect at least two OT's this year.
4) If a DE is selected, it should be in the early rounds (1-3),
5) Expect multiple LB's in the mid to late rounds. I'll go as far to say that I'm very confident we won't draft a LB in the top 2 rounds.
6) We probably won't draft a RB this year (crosses fingers). Let's hope this one works out better than my same prediction did last year.

Some of these predictions are obvious and have been made by many people. To take it one step further, I'll predict the numbers we take for each position given our number of picks (obviously this won't be exact, but I expect to be within about 1 for each position): QB (1), RB (0), WR (2), OT (2), OG/C (0), DE (1), DT (0), LB (2), DB (2).

To finish out this post (finally, I know), I'd like to mention some ways I hope to use and develop this analysis in the future:
1) Expand this to other established GM's (e.g. Ozzie Newsome). I'm interested to see if other GM's have obvious trends like Nix does.
2) Create two factors to quantify the priority GM's (Nix in this case) place on various positions based on quantity and quality, respectively.
3) Use these priority factors along with team offseason needs to more accurately predict how each team will draft. Possibly even calculate probabilities that each position will be calculated in each round.
4) Find a way to adjust this analysis for the fact that each team doesn't choose where it selects. For example, a player selected at pick 100 may also have been selected at pick 80 by the same team if they had a pick at 80. A significant amount of variability is almost certainly introduced by the nature of the draft.

If anyone wants to discuss this further, feel free to PM me. I apologize again for the long post. Hope this helps discussion of the draft in some way, though I'm afraid this analysis hasn't added as much to the discussion as I thought it might.

jamze132
04-11-2012, 01:34 AM
Dude. You did a lot of work and it all sounds legit and whatnot, but I could have told you in 24000 less words that we'll draft a couple of O-lineman, couple of LBs, couple of DBs, a QB, and a WR or two.

Just look at our roster. Might even draft a TE!

psubills62
04-11-2012, 02:09 AM
Dude. You did a lot of work and it all sounds legit and whatnot, but I could have told you in 24000 less words that we'll draft a couple of O-lineman, couple of LBs, couple of DBs, a QB, and a WR or two.

Just look at our roster. Might even draft a TE!
Ha, I know. I was disappointed with the end results myself. It was more useful last year. But all the same, was trying to continue this and I'm going to look to expand it in the future.

Don't Panic
04-11-2012, 06:02 AM
Data Analytics at its finest. Nice research brother.

psubills62
04-11-2012, 10:01 AM
I should probably add a specific prediction for the first round.

Something I'll note with regards to the first round pick: it was much easier to narrow the field to two players last year (Peterson and Dareus) because having the third pick means there's relatively few truly elite players. Selecting at 10 means it's more dependent on who the Bills specifically like rather than just figuring out which of the 4-5 elite players play the right positions.

I will say with 99% confidence that our first round pick WON'T be: Luke Kuechly, any other LB, or any DE (that last one is based on the FA moves mostly, not the analysis). Also, none of the obvious ones like QB, DT, TE either.

In order, I think the Bills are most likely to draft a WR, CB, then OT for our first round pick. I want to move OT up that list, but the analysis is strongly not in favor of early round OT's.

If I had to guess players, I'll go with Floyd, Gilmore, and Glenn. I do think Joe Buscaglia has a point when he says Nix goes for big and ideal sized OL, and Glenn fits that.

Another thing to possibly add to the analysis in the future is likelihood of drafting underclassmen. I wonder if some GM's specifically stay away from them (I recall discussing how Nix drafted experienced players in 2010). Not sure if Gilmore fits Buffalo's profile.

Mindbender
04-11-2012, 10:04 AM
Nice. So, if you had to predict the position drafted in Round 1 what would it be?

Mindbender
04-11-2012, 10:05 AM
Whoops, should refresh more often.

Cali512
04-11-2012, 11:30 AM
I was reading, and reading, and reading, then realized i wasnt even done with the 3rd paragraph. So i liked it, and am going to pretend i understand everything. Nice job :)

psubills62
04-11-2012, 11:36 AM
I was reading, and reading, and reading, then realized i wasnt even done with the 3rd paragraph. So i liked it, and am going to pretend i understand everything. Nice job :)
Yeah, brevity is not my strong suit most of the time, unfortunately. I tried to bold the important parts and put lists at the end for people who aren't interested in reading all that.

Bill Cody
04-11-2012, 11:54 AM
The typical Gaussian profile looks a lot like a girl I dated in high school, stacked.

Pinkerton Security
04-11-2012, 12:12 PM
Dude. You did a lot of work and it all sounds legit and whatnot, but I could have told you in 24000 less words that we'll draft a couple of O-lineman, couple of LBs, couple of DBs, a QB, and a WR or two.

Just look at our roster. Might even draft a TE!

Its a much better post than MitchMurrayDowntown's hourly not-so-outlandish predictions. Nice work PSU!

Bill Cody
04-11-2012, 12:34 PM
So your thesis is Nix values certain positions more highly and that trumps team needs? I'd be real interested to hear HIS take on your analysis.

I always thought teams built draft boards and they used them to pick players. But that's probably not really the case, at least not that simply. They have priorities and they try to move around if necessary to get value for those priorities. But I'm not sure how the roster a GM inherits inpacts his priorities. A GM might like to take late fliers on DT's but if the cupboard is bare he can't really do that, can he?

Mr. Miyagi
04-11-2012, 12:38 PM
Dude. You did a lot of work and it all sounds legit and whatnot, but I could have told you in 24000 less words that we'll draft a couple of O-lineman, couple of LBs, couple of DBs, a QB, and a WR or two.

Just look at our roster. Might even draft a TE!
:goodpost:

psubills62
04-11-2012, 12:43 PM
So your thesis is Nix values certain positions more highly and that trumps team needs? I'd be real interested to hear HIS take on your analysis.

I always thought teams built draft boards and they used them to pick players. But that's probably not really the case, at least not that simply. They have priorities and they try to move around if necessary to get value for those priorities. But I'm not sure how the roster a GM inherits inpacts his priorities. A GM might like to take late fliers on DT's but if the cupboard is bare he can't really do that, can he?
Not saying that at all. What I am saying is that there are certain trends in how he selects various positions. Does he do in on purpose? I don't know, that's not information I'm privy to. I also don't have records of team needs of the Chargers during the 2001-2008 years. Not to mention team needs are hard to quantify to begin with.

It's kind of like how certain positions are valued in the NFL community overall. QB's are overdrafted. TE's, OG's (like DeCastro), and OC's don't seem to bring much value in the top half of the first round. Certain positions are generally selected above others. Sometimes GM's do things in certain ways.

When Nix was in San Diego, 5 of their 9 first round picks were CB's. I'd say that indicates Nix puts a very high value on CB's. Nix has NEVER taken an OT in the first round, thus my inclination is to say that it's very unlikely he does so this year. I'm not ruling it out, just saying it seems very unlikely based on his past actions.

What I'm trying to do is read the trends. When I say "Buddy Nix values this position" or "Nix puts a priority on this position," I'm not actually telling you how Buddy feels about a position - just telling you how it looks based on his past actions.

EDS
04-11-2012, 12:44 PM
Good analysis but, in reality, DT has been a big priority for Buddy since ariving in B-lo given that he has spent two high picks on defensive tackles in Dareus and Troup.

psubills62
04-11-2012, 12:47 PM
So your thesis is Nix values certain positions more highly and that trumps team needs? I'd be real interested to hear HIS take on your analysis.

I always thought teams built draft boards and they used them to pick players. But that's probably not really the case, at least not that simply. They have priorities and they try to move around if necessary to get value for those priorities. But I'm not sure how the roster a GM inherits inpacts his priorities. A GM might like to take late fliers on DT's but if the cupboard is bare he can't really do that, can he?
To try and be more brief - I actually think team needs are what cause outliers in this data. For example, 3 of the 4 DT's he's drafted have come in the 7th round. Troup was an outlier due to our need for one.

I'm guessing McNeill was due to team needs as well - two more OT's were taken that year.

I'm not trying to say anything about Nix's motivation for drafting these players. This analysis is just meant to try and predict what positions will be drafted and where. I'd like to take team needs into account at some point.

psubills62
04-11-2012, 12:50 PM
Good analysis but, in reality, DT has been a big priority for Buddy since ariving in B-lo given that he has spent two high picks on defensive tackles in Dareus and Troup.
I counted Dareus as a DE, as that's where his main position was in the 3-4. He's obviously moving to DT in the 4-3, but indications are that's not where he was drafted to play. Also, Nix seemed to place a high priority on 3-4 DE's in SD.

Trying to distinguish between positions can be difficult. Merriman was drafted in the first round - he's a 3-4 LB, but contributes more to pass rush than tackling in space. Should I take that into account when asking if we'll take a 4-3 DE compared to 4-3 LB's? Do I count Jasper as DL or OL, since it sounded from Nix's comments that they had him pegged at OL all along, despite technically drafting him as a DL?

Bill Cody
04-11-2012, 01:02 PM
Not saying that at all. What I am saying is that there are certain trends in how he selects various positions. Does he do in on purpose? I don't know, that's not information I'm privy to. I also don't have records of team needs of the Chargers during the 2001-2008 years. Not to mention team needs are hard to quantify to begin with.

What I'm trying to do is read the trends. When I say "Buddy Nix values this position" or "Nix puts a priority on this position," I'm not actually telling you how Buddy feels about a position - just telling you how it looks based on his past actions.

Let's be clear: you're projecting the future based on Buddy's past actions- that means you're assuming Buddy does value some positions higher than others. If not, there is literally no point in it.

You may well be right BTW. I listened to Bill Polian on the radio last year and he talked about the five priority positions in the NFL: QB, OLT, CB, DE, and pass rushing DT. By that theory our prioties should be QB, OLT, CB. But what do you do if the priority doesn't match the players available? <shrug>

SquishDaFish
04-11-2012, 01:18 PM
Nice job bro

psubills62
04-11-2012, 01:19 PM
Let's be clear: you're projecting the future based on Buddy's past actions- that means you're assuming Buddy does value some positions higher than others. If not, there is literally no point in it.

You may well be right BTW. I listened to Bill Polian on the radio last year and he talked about the five priority positions in the NFL: QB, OLT, CB, DE, and pass rushing DT. By that theory our prioties should be QB, OLT, CB. But what do you do if the priority doesn't match the players available? <shrug>
Sorry, yes. The first part of your original question is correct. The part I took issue with is when you said it "trumps team needs."

That's definitely a good question. The best I can say is that any one draft could end up being an outlier. Realistically, all we can do is look at the trends, try to take team needs into account and hope to get within the ballpark. Plenty of people do that already (e.g. Joe Buscaglia mentioning that Nix seems to prefer OL with Glenn's measurables), I'm just trying to quantify it in a probabilistic manner.

Prov401
04-11-2012, 01:19 PM
Judging by Nix's past, I agree with you 100%. WR or CB are the positions to watch this year.

Bill Cody
04-11-2012, 02:43 PM
Sorry, yes. The first part of your original question is correct. The part I took issue with is when you said it "trumps team needs."



I really think in the end Buddy is looking 1st and foremost for starters from the 1st 2 rounds. You can say he likes to draft corners pretty early but the rest is harder to draw conclusions. For example if Trent Williams was available at 10 2 years ago he would have been the pick not Spiller IMO.

I think the interest in Cordy Glenn is genuine but to me it smells like we may be looking to move down. A guy that could end up at RT or inside is probably a reach at 10. But we have to know Glenn won't be there in the 2nd, likely gone top 20. <shrug> The fact that Nix would draft Spiller tells you he is looking to make a splash with the 1st pick regardless of position. It would be awesome to see his board.

jamze132
04-12-2012, 05:19 AM
I agree that if Floyd is there at #10, he's a Bill.

Blacksheep71
04-12-2012, 08:05 AM
I think the problem with predicting selections based on past actions, is that they come back and bite you. Jerry Jones never drafts Offensive Linemen in Round 1 yet took Smith at No9.

I think as we move to the 4-3 defensive alignment and with a very mediocre pass rush, DE could again be principle prospect. But then Nix has also said it is hard for a QB to throw if he's on his back. Yet doesn't draft OTs early.

I think you also need to look at positional depth. This year is deep at WR and you can easily find a No2 WR on Day2 if not Day3. It most certainly is not 2008. However OTs are pretty light on the ground this year whilst in 2008 the class was very deep. TE again is a weakish class so you may look to draft earlier than you might do otherwise.

Finally, I'm not sure how relevant the selections in San Diego were. Whilst he overseed the college scouting and was in the decision making process, it was Butler, then AJ Smith who where the GMs and likely had the final call.

psubills62
04-12-2012, 06:11 PM
I think the problem with predicting selections based on past actions, is that they come back and bite you. Jerry Jones never drafts Offensive Linemen in Round 1 yet took Smith at No9.
I never said this predictive model would be spot-on for every pick. If I followed the analysis to the letter, I wouldn't have put OT as an option at all for the first round pick. The purpose is to look at the overall picture and try to get a good idea of who the Bills are most likely to pick in what ranges (early, middle, late rounds).


I think you also need to look at positional depth. This year is deep at WR and you can easily find a No2 WR on Day2 if not Day3. It most certainly is not 2008. However OTs are pretty light on the ground this year whilst in 2008 the class was very deep. TE again is a weakish class so you may look to draft earlier than you might do otherwise.
There's a lot of factors that aren't included in this current analysis, despite the length of my post. It's still in a very basic stage. Going forward, the key will be to identify and quantify the most important factors.

I will say that if the Bills really like Floyd at 10, I doubt they'll reach for a prospect at a different position simply because the draft is deep at WR.


Finally, I'm not sure how relevant the selections in San Diego were. Whilst he overseed the college scouting and was in the decision making process, it was Butler, then AJ Smith who where the GMs and likely had the final call.
I addressed this partially in my original post in 2011 (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=199778). Here's the disclaimers at the top of that post:

DISCLAIMERS: 1) I don't pretend that Buddy Nix was directly responsible for every pick here, 2) this list is purely a representation of the drafts during his time at San Diego, 3) I'm also not guaranteeing Nix will follow the same pattern that these drafts did, 4) conclusions from this "analysis" are in no way universal, as every draft is different, team needs are different, etc.
I understand that Nix wasn't the GM in San Diego. However, I think there's plenty of reasons to believe those picks are still somewhat representative of his decision-making:
1) the predictions I made last year based solely on San Diego's picks turned out pretty darn good.
2) Nix has indeed followed some similar patterns to the picks in SD.
3) Butler was only in SD the first few years of the 2001-2008 drafts.
4) Nix may not have been the only one making the decision (or had final say), but it seems appropriate to assume he had a lot of input.

So no, Nix wasn't GM in SD, but that doesn't mean those picks aren't representative of his philosophy when drafting. So far, they seem to be very similar to how he drafts in general.