Gregg Williams will never be in the NFL again

[Skooby]

Gregg basically asked Hargrove to deny all of this bounty stuff to help Gregg cover this up, this is wrong on so many levels:



Anthony Hargrove sacks Brett Favre in the 2009 NFC title game. (Getty)
Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 to deny the team's bounty program.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--document--anthony-hargrove-was-instructed-to-lie-by-gregg-williams--joe-vitt.html;_ylt=An0qZ7KXebdqe8OgvX.Bx5Y5nYcB

[TigerJ]

I would not be surprised if you're right. But then stranger things have happened in football than that. What's interesting is that Hargrave's sworn affidavit implicates the interim coach as a direct participant in efforts to cover up the bounty program, and also makes his teammates look like liars in their denial of any wrongdoing. The soap opera isn't ending any time soon.

[thenry20]

If something ever happens to Greg's kids playin sports anywhere, he has no one to blame but himself.

He is no man, he is an animal.

[MattyNH]

If something ever happens to Greg's kids playin sports anywhere, he has no one to blame but himself.

He is no man, he is an animal.

What? What do his kids have to do with this?

[Pinkerton Security]

I understand that he made big mistakes, but I feel a little bit bad for Williams. It would not shock me at all if every single team in the NFL has a similar system in place, he just happened to have been the one whose system got uncovered. Dont get me wrong, if they were really out there trying to maim people then all of them deserve what they got, I just think its getting blown out of proportion. Anyone who has ever played football knows that you're not out there intentionally trying to hurt people, but you're definitely out there trying to hit people as hard as you can, and will even hit the opponents best players even harder if possible.

[ddaryl]

he would be castrated by the fans and the media, and whatever team that did hire him would have a PR nightmare.

[Skooby]

he would be castrated by the fans and the media, and whatever team that did hire him would have a PR nightmare.

He's the NFL's version of Pete Rose, without the gambling.

[justasportsfan]

If some people including the NFL itself can forgive PAcman and Vick, they will forgive Greghead. Time heals all wounds.

[Devin]

Id not jump to conclusions about that.

The NFL still hasnt released most their "evidence". In fact apart from Greg Williams ranting like a moron prior to san fran, the NFL hasnt proven this was anything more than a pay for performance plan same as every other team in the league.


The league says that money was paid for “cart-offs” and “knockouts,” but the league has yet to identify a single cent contributed or paid for a “cart-off” or a “knockout” caused by the Saints in 2009, 2010, and/or 2011.

If it happened, why not disclose the proof of it? If it didn’t, why isn’t this simply being characterized as an illegal pay-for-performance program.

I am actually kinda sick of hearing all this because now basically the public, even the players are supposed to just sort of take the NFL's word that everything they said is true.

The Times Picayune broke a story yesterday:


The latest chunk of it comes from Mike Triplett of the New Orleans Times-Picayune, who buries a bombshell in an article regarding the fallout of the Anthony Hargrove (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2816/anthony-hargrove) declaration.

Writes Triplett: “[A]ccording to a source close to [former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg] Williams, the NFL has also misrepresented what Williams said (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/05/anthony_hargroves_declaration.html) in interviews with the league. According to the source, Williams never admitted a ‘bounty program’ was in place and that the league ‘rephrased his statements to satisfy its needs.’ The source also said Williams never identified any players for their involvement in a pay-for-performance or bounty program.”

Those are strong, stunning allegations. Given the mounting attacks on the quality of the league’s evidence, the time has come for the NFL to disclose it. All. Publicly. Every piece and shred of it.


Not only is there growing speculation the players "involved" will not only get their suspensions over turned, but they may take some sort of legal action. Sean Payton had a whole legal team here recently.

The bottom line is in most circles there is growing suspicion that there is no real evidence apart hearsay and perhaps a recording of Greg Williams running his mouth prior to the playoff game.

[Forward_Lateral]

Devin is right. This is all hearsay evidence. It would never stand up in a court of law. The fact that Godell is acting like he's above the law is ridiculous. All of these punishments are way overblown, and based completely on invisible evidence.

The fact that GW is out of the league indefinitely but guys who have committed serious felony crimes are still in it is a joke.

[Skooby]

Id not jump to conclusions about that.

The NFL still hasnt released most their "evidence". In fact apart from Greg Williams ranting like a moron prior to san fran, the NFL hasnt proven this was anything more than a pay for performance plan same as every other team in the league.



I am actually kinda sick of hearing all this because now basically the public, even the players are supposed to just sort of take the NFL's word that everything they said is true.

The Times Picayune broke a story yesterday:



Not only is there growing speculation the players "involved" will not only get their suspensions over turned, but they may take some sort of legal action. Sean Payton had a whole legal team here recently.

The bottom line is in most circles there is growing suspicion that there is no real evidence apart hearsay and perhaps a recording of Greg Williams running his mouth prior to the playoff game.


Devin is right. This is all hearsay evidence. It would never stand up in a court of law. The fact that Godell is acting like he's above the law is ridiculous. All of these punishments are way overblown, and based completely on invisible evidence.

The fact that GW is out of the league indefinitely but guys who have committed serious felony crimes are still in it is a joke.

I guess that all those apologies from the Saints coaches & management were for not filling the bathroom supplies, right ?

SP video apology - http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7731586

Would you apologize to your boss about doing something wrong if you didn't do it?: http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/saints_loomis_payton_apologize.html

[Devin]

I guess that all those apologies from the Saints coaches & management were for not filling the bathroom supplies, right ?

SP video apology - http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7731586

Would you apologize to your boss about doing something wrong if you didn't do it?: http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/saints_loomis_payton_apologize.html

The NFL is a billion dollar business with a security force comparable to the FBI. If anyone doesnt think that certain people were "leaned on" they are nuts.

Williams like the rest were likely trying to salvage any chance at seeing a sideline again. Play ball and we will see what we can do.

The man who punished them heard their appeal, and STILL no evidence produced? If its that cut and dry why not release this stuff. Why are there so many denials still? Why are there 4 players punished out of a list of 22-27 supposed participants? The NFL has no proof that any Saints player every recieved money for injuries. Thats the bottom line.

Give me a break.

[Skooby]

The NFL is a billion dollar business with a security force comparable to the FBI. If anyone doesnt think that certain people were "leaned on" they are nuts.

Williams like the rest were likely trying to salvage any chance at seeing a sideline again.

The man who punished them heard their appeal, and STILL no evidence produced? If its that cut and dry why not release this stuff. Why are there so many denials still? Why are there 4 players punished out of a list of 22-27 supposed participants?

Give me a break.

You're trying to partially justify these acts by saying that everyone needs to be punished or no one does ? Do you think these acts were not committed or were those apologies false ??

You do realize that the management & coaching staffs have to be responsible for their player's proper behavior correct ? It's more than a code of conduct, it's a human event. I suppose that audio recording of Gregg Williams actually saying these things was only heard by those 4 guys, right ?? Everyone on the team knows what was said in the locker room, so let's not kid ourselves here.

I think that GW is a complete POS for having to resort to these tactics in an attempt to motivate his players, it's actually barbaric.

[better days]

The NFL is a billion dollar business with a security force comparable to the FBI. If anyone doesnt think that certain people were "leaned on" they are nuts.

Williams like the rest were likely trying to salvage any chance at seeing a sideline again. Play ball and we will see what we can do.

The man who punished them heard their appeal, and STILL no evidence produced? If its that cut and dry why not release this stuff. Why are there so many denials still? Why are there 4 players punished out of a list of 22-27 supposed participants? The NFL has no proof that any Saints player every recieved money for injuries. Thats the bottom line.

Give me a break.

You don't know they have no proof. The NFL may feel it is not in the best interest of the league to make PUBLIC the evidence it has.

[Forward_Lateral]

Jonathan Vilma and the NFLPA have both said that NO evidence has been provided to support Vilma's one year suspension. If that's not Marshall Law, I don't know what is. Suspend first, ask questions later? Talk about knee-jerk reactions. What kind of evidence could Godell possibly have besides "hearsay"? I'll give you that answer. None.

[Devin]

You don't know they have no proof. The NFL may feel it is not in the best interest of the league to make PUBLIC the evidence it has.

Thats quite possible. But count me amongst the growing number of people who refuses to simply take the NFL's word.

This has turned into a he said-she said type situation. And its my belief if you start handing out banishments, year long suspensions, forfeiture of drafts picks....thats serious stuff. Even for drug bans the stuff gets released somehow.

You mean to tell me you dont think this stuff should be made public? Some of these guys area going to be labeled for life, if its justified fine but prove it.

[Skooby]

Jonathan Vilma and the NFLPA have both said that NO evidence has been provided to support Vilma's one year suspension. If that's not Marshall Law, I don't know what is. Suspend first, ask questions later? Talk about knee-jerk reactions. What kind of evidence could Godell possibly have besides "hearsay"? I'll give you that answer. None.

This is a thread about Gregg Williams, so outside that I'd say it's all suspect to a point.

Gregg needs them to all hit the head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhnn9kbqQUA

[Devin]

You're trying to partially justify these acts by saying that everyone needs to be punished or no one does ? Do you think these acts were not committed or were those apologies false ??

You do realize that the management & coaching staffs have to be responsible for their player's proper behavior correct ? It's more than a code of conduct, it's a human event. I suppose that audio recording of Gregg Williams actually saying these things was only heard by those 4 guys, right ?? Everyone on the team knows what was said in the locker room, so let's not kid ourselves here.

I think that GW is a complete POS for having to resort to these tactics in an attempt to motivate his players, it's actually barbaric.

No, try to follow along.

What I am saying is I am not in 100% belief that the league can prove some of these things were happening the way they are saying they did.

And dont be naive, the mentality of I would guess most defensive units is just that. Rex Ryan in his own book talked about "dotting" impact players for opposing teams.

No what I am saying is, there is a certain burden of proof Im not sure the NFL has.

[Forward_Lateral]

So, you are telling me that no coaches in the NFL say stuff like "Let's go kill them" or "Take his ***** head off!" to pump up the players? Did GW go a bit too far in that speech? Maybe, but I have yet to see solid proof that money was paid to players for injuring opponents. Show me solid evidence that wouldn't get laughed at in a court of law, and I'll be the first to exile GW from the NFL for life. Until then, it's all circumstantial, He said, She said BS like Devin said.

[Skooby]

So, you are telling me that no coaches in the NFL say stuff like "Let's go kill them" or "Take his ***** head off!" to pump up the players? Did GW go a bit too far in that speech? Maybe, but I have yet to see solid proof that money was paid to players for injuring opponents. Show me solid evidence that wouldn't get laughed at in a court of law, and I'll be the first to exile GW from the NFL for life. Until then, it's all circumstantial, He said, She said BS like Devin said.

Motivating his players is fine, it's not my place to judge how rough they would like to be. Paying his players to injure people & placing boutnties on people's heads is scary. Apologizing to the owner about bounties & the Sean Payton video conference wasn't enough proof ?? Did you need to be there to believe it was happening ?? I know that something negative transpired & Loomis / Payton apologized for their part of it, so that's pretty cut and dry.

Think about it this way, if someone was paying another guy money to specifically injure you or a member of your family, would you call the police ?? Don't bother to retort with the game of football is a violent sport crap, this is a crime in every state for a specific negative action to be done to another for financial gain. It's absolutely sick and i feel that it should investigated by the po po.

[Spiderweb]

Devin is right. This is all hearsay evidence. It would never stand up in a court of law. The fact that Godell is acting like he's above the law is ridiculous. All of these punishments are way overblown, and based completely on invisible evidence.

The fact that GW is out of the league indefinitely but guys who have committed serious felony crimes are still in it is a joke.

No one here at this board as any idea of what "evidence" exists or doesn't exist. Let if not be misunderstood, first hand testimony has been leaked a bit and that is considered evidence. Now attacking the character of those giving testimony is a given. Tapes, etc., would be ruled on for admissibility and so on.

Before we jump sides and declare anyone guilty, or innocent, Goodell is an attorney. He should have some idea of a "threshold" at which proceeding with punishment is applicable. At a time when the game is under heavy scrutiny for the physical damage it does to the players, erring on the side of caution does seem prudent at any rate.

[JohnnyGold]

No, try to follow along.

What I am saying is I am not in 100% belief that the league can prove some of these things were happening the way they are saying they did.

And dont be naive, the mentality of I would guess most defensive units is just that. Rex Ryan in his own book talked about "dotting" impact players for opposing teams.

No what I am saying is, there is a certain burden of proof Im not sure the NFL has.

come on now man, youre talking to a guy right here that thinks the moon landing was staged, 9-11 was a controlled demolition, and michael jordan didnt retire to play baseball but was suspended by david stern.

BUT.

this is one conspiracy theory i just can't get behind.