Kellen Winslow

[alnilla]

Winslow says problems arose after he decided to work out on his own this offseason (as usual), even though he insists the Bucs never told him it would be an issue. In reality, Winslow was always unlikely to be back. All of the guarantees from the six-year, $36.1 million deal he signed in 2009 have been paid, while he was thoroughly un-dynamic on the field last season. Winslow likely would have been a toxic match with the hard-nosed Schiano. He'll be released if the Bucs don't find a trade partner in short order.

per twitter


Id say bring him in for a look at least??

[FlyingDutchman]

Yeah just saw this. With the lack of a strong #2 WR, I'd be all for this assuming he says the right things leading me to believe he would come in here and not be a headache or a distraction. Chandler is serviceable, but Winslow would make a major difference

[MTBillsFan]

He's a hot headed douche. Not worth the headache.

[ServoBillieves]

They worked out Dallas Clark (as you guys know) but if this guy hasn't lived up to expectations in 2 cities then where is his upside? He's the son of a HoF'er, but i think every other NFL fan board is posting the same thing.

Give him a workout, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's one of those late TC pick ups after cuts or mid-season Burger King calls for any team.

[Mr. Miyagi]

That guy is primadona bad attitude galore. He'd be poison to the Bills culture.

[Ed]

I bet he ends up with the Jets.

[Beebe's Kid]

I am all for bringing in talent, but the problem with Winslow is that it is always somebody else's fault. He just seems like a problem and distraction.

I think that I would have to pass on this one. The guy has been a problem and an underachiever from the door...the Jets sound like a good fit for him.

[FlyingDutchman]

I don't get it...what has he really done that is that bad in the last couple years? Sure he said dumb douche bag stuff when he was young and immature, but people grow up. Not sure about anyone else, but Im sick of trying to run a convent, lets flipping win

[madness]

Read this, please.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8293c504/article/bucs-cutting-ties-with-kellen-winslow-at-the-right-time

[ddaryl]

I don't get it...what has he really done that is that bad in the last couple years? Sure he said dumb douche bag stuff when he was young and immature, but people grow up. Not sure about anyone else, but Im sick of trying to run a convent, lets flipping win

his knees are shot...

his attitude has been fine since his rookie year(s)

however does he fit the mold for the Billsl O which does not rely heavily on a pass catching TE

[justasportsfan]

I bet he ends up with the Jets.


or the bills just like Young did.

[Skooby]

Don't have him ride a motorcycle for a visit.

[FlyingDutchman]

his knees are shot...

his attitude has been fine since his rookie year(s)

however does he fit the mold for the Billsl O which does not rely heavily on a pass catching TE

Good points. At the right price, he couldn't hurt IMO

[bf1]

He's a soldier!

[more cowbell]

This guy has been slightly above average his entire career. Was a beast in college, has had a couple good, not great, NFL seasons...meh

Not worth the headache, would much rather see us sign a WR

[psubills62]

I don't get it...what has he really done that is that bad in the last couple years? Sure he said dumb douche bag stuff when he was young and immature, but people grow up. Not sure about anyone else, but Im sick of trying to run a convent, lets flipping win
And Kellen Winslow has helped what team win?

No thank you to Winslow.

[PTI]

I think any team could win the NFC South, not suprised with who they signed.

[FlyingDutchman]

And Kellen Winslow has helped what team win?

No thank you to Winslow.

Hes slightly above average, but would be an improvement over what we have IMO...I don't think its right to blame a Tight End for wins who played for the Browns and the Bucs, who haven't had a solid QB, WR, or RB in years...

[Raptor]

I don't see the Bills getting involved in this

1.He's been overrated for a while now
2.The Bills just don't place that much value on the TE position

[psubills62]

Hes slightly above average, but would be an improvement over what we have IMO...I don't think its right to blame a Tight End for wins who played for the Browns and the Bucs, who haven't had a solid QB, WR, or RB in years...
Not blaming anyone, just saying he hasn't exactly helped anyone win. He's a weapon...when he's healthy. Just not interested.

[YardRat]

Pass.

[Meathead]

well thanks for your time with the bucs kellen, we're sorry things didnt work out, but as parting gifts please accept this kawasaki ninja and case of maddog 20/20

[BillsOverDolphins]

Definitely worth bringing in for a tryout.

[Meathead]

ill say this for the guy, he definitely has huge balls (http://graneyandthepig.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/updated-story-on-kellen-winslow-jr-s-grapefruit-sized-testicles/)

[SquishDaFish]

SiriusXM NFL Radio ‏ <s>@</s>SiriusXMNFL (https://twitter.com/#%21/SiriusXMNFL) Tim Ryan & Pat Kirwan of Movin' The Chains believe the Buffalo Bills would be a great fit for TE Kellen Winslow Jr. http://post.ly/7OZZa (http://t.co/fZO4AuMk)

[Mr. Pink]

Has the knees of a 40 year old and the brain of a 12 year old.

[ServoBillieves]

Has the knees of a 40 year old and the brain of a 12 year old.

12? Don't give him too much credit.

[mjt328]

Winslow would be an asset to the team, especially with our remaining weaknesses at receiver.

I like Chandler, but he doesn't seem to be much outside of a good red-zone threat. We could use a more consistent pass catching threat between the 20s.

Despite the frequent injuries, Winslow has been a consistent producer.

Most of his off-field/diva personallity concerns seem to be a thing of the past.



With all of that said, it definitely comes down to contract. If he wants a reasonable amount of money without a long commitment, I don't see any reason Buffalo shouldn't give him a shot (just like Vince Young).

[gr8slayer]

He doesn't fit the type of player that the team is looking for; bad fit here.

[Night Train]

Fools gold. Reported A-hole. Overpaid. Should have tons more TD's. Body breaking down.

I've HEARD OF HIM !

[BillsOverDolphins]

KW is markedly better than any TE we have, yet almost everyone here is scoffing him...you people are unbelievably stupid sometimes.

[CuseJetsFan83]

and he has been traded to seattle for a 6/7th rounder as per PFT

http://http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/bucs-ship-winslow-to-seattle/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/bucs-ship-winslow-to-seattle/)

[Night Train]

KW is markedly better than any TE we have, yet almost everyone here is scoffing him...you people are unbelievably stupid sometimes.

Irony has found a home.

[kishoph]

KW is markedly better than any TE we have, yet almost everyone here is scoffing him...you people are unbelievably stupid sometimes.

2011
Chandler - 6 TD's
Winslow - 2 TD's

I wouldn't say that's "markedly" better.
In fact they also had the exact average per catch at 10.2 yds. If Chandler was targeted as much as Winslow was, his stats would of been far better. Add in the dropped passes by Winslow, the penalties (7 last season), the inability to block, Chandler's better size, the injuries (bad knees), the inflated salary and all the drama that comes with Winslow, no thanks, I'll stay "stupid" and I'll keep Chandler.

[Extremebillsfan247]

2011
Chandler - 6 TD's
Winslow - 2 TD's

I wouldn't say that's "markedly" better.
In fact they also had the exact average per catch at 10.2 yds. If Chandler was targeted as much as Winslow was, his stats would of been far better. Add in the dropped passes by Winslow, the penalties (7 last season), the inability to block, Chandler's better size, the inflated salary and all the drama that comes with Winslow, no thanks, I'll stay "stupid" and I'll keep Chandler. Not much more to say after that is there? :D Great post.

[Skooby]

and he has been traded to seattle for a 6/7th rounder as per PFT

<a href="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/bucs-ship-winslow-to-seattle/" target="_blank">http://http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/21/bucs-ship-winslow-to-seattle/

Good riddance.

[Jan Reimers]

KW is markedly better than any TE we have, yet almost everyone here is scoffing him...you people are unbelievably stupid sometimes.
No, some of us just don't see the point of signing every big name, has been on the market, and ******ing the development of our promising young players.

[more cowbell]

KW is markedly better than any TE we have, yet almost everyone here is scoffing him...you people are unbelievably stupid sometimes.

LOL

[BillsOverDolphins]

Irony has found a home.
Yeah I don't know who you are, but I'd venture to guess that my past takes/prognostications have been "markedly" better than yours. You are a homer, and thus are incapable of having good takes.

It happens.

[BillsOverDolphins]

2011
Chandler - 6 TD's
Winslow - 2 TD's

I wouldn't say that's "markedly" better.
In fact they also had the exact average per catch at 10.2 yds. If Chandler was targeted as much as Winslow was, his stats would of been far better. Add in the dropped passes by Winslow, the penalties (7 last season), the inability to block, Chandler's better size, the injuries (bad knees), the inflated salary and all the drama that comes with Winslow, no thanks, I'll stay "stupid" and I'll keep Chandler.
This is all a moot point now because he's a Seahawk, but I can cherry pick stats to my liking too:

Chandler: 38, 389, 6

Winslow: 75, 763, 2

So Chandler had half the catches, half the yards, but 4 more TDs---none of which came in his last 7 games:roflmao:

"Buh-buh-but he might ruin team chemistry!:( :( :( "

Yeah, let's not mess with our 13-year streak of futility...that's some delicate chemistry right there!

JanReimers, Chandler is only 2 years younger than Winslow--and is useless between the 20's. I know he's a scrappy, hurr-durr whiteboy that probably watches the 700 Club, but we need more talent at that position.

Scoffing an "injured, attitude problem" guy who had 75 receptions last year in a terrible offense is laughable when you look at what the Bills have at TE.

Op was right about you guys--you're scared to stunt the growth of a "future" that never comes.

[Mr. Pink]

All I read out of BOD in this thread is...

"I heard of the guy so he must be great, we shoulda got him!!!"

BTW if this was 2008, I likely would have agreed with you.

[BillsOverDolphins]

All I read out of BOD in this thread is...

"I heard of the guy so he must be great, we shoulda got him!!!"

BTW if this was 2008, I likely would have agreed with you.
Neat comeback.

The "I heard of this guy!" schtick is tired...give it up and find a new go-to line. Winslow is an upgrade, thus what fan with a functioning brain wouldn't want to take a look at him?

As for other people I've wanted to get, Braylon Edwards only comes to my head as of now. He's a playoff performer with good size and speed. Predictable homers will say, "he's injured blah blah blah," but wtf do you think DJ and ME are?--and they haven't proven **** in this league yet.

Bringing in talented big names creates excitement and encourages other FA's to sign as well (i.e. MW signing).

You cannot dispute that we suck at TE, and #2WR--it's a fact...so why not try to upgrade?

[Mr. Pink]

Neat comeback.

The "I heard of this guy!" schtick is tired...give it up and find a new go-to line. Winslow is an upgrade, thus what fan with a functioning brain wouldn't want to take a look at him?

As for other people I've wanted to get, Braylon Edwards only comes to my head as of now. He's a playoff performer with good size and speed. Predictable homers will say, "he's injured blah blah blah," but wtf do you think DJ and ME are?--and they haven't proven **** in this league yet.

Bringing in talented big names creates excitement and encourages other FA's to sign as well (i.e. MW signing).

You cannot dispute that we suck at TE, and #2WR--it's a fact...so why not try to upgrade?

Winslow isn't an upgrade...he's a lateral move.

Why even bring up the #2 WR bit in this argument? Is KII gonna play TE and WR now?

[BillsOverDolphins]

Winslow isn't an upgrade...he's a lateral move.

Why even bring up the #2 WR bit in this argument? Is KII gonna play TE and WR now?
Are you really that dense? WR/TE go hand-in-hand these days when talking about receiving threats/options. Look at NE, NO, SF, BAL, etc...ipso-facto the more weapons you have in the passing game, the better.

Chandler can't do **** between the 20's, and was completely AWOL the last half of the season period. lol lateral move.

[BillsOverDolphins]

What's done is done--he's a Seahawk now. It's better to just move on and admit that I'm right (as the stats prove).

[Mr. Pink]

What's done is done--he's a Seahawk now. It's better to just move on and admit that I'm right (as the stats prove).


:rofl:

KII is a 28 year old in the body of 40 year old. He can't block. He's a me first player. his better days are well behind him, as in 4 years behind him.

But yeah, we should have traded to bring in an overpaid guy who isn't much better, if at all, than what we already have.

This isn't Vernon Davis, Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronkowski or Jimmy Graham we're talking about here.

In fact, Winslow was SO good and instrumental to the Bucs they kept him, oh wait, that's right they traded him.

[BillsOverDolphins]

:rofl:

KII is a 28 year old in the body of 40 year old. He can't block. He's a me first player. his better days are well behind him, as in 4 years behind him.

But yeah, we should have traded to bring in an overpaid guy who isn't much better, if at all, than what we already have.

This isn't Vernon Davis, Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronkowski or Jimmy Graham we're talking about here.

In fact, Winslow was SO good and instrumental to the Bucs they kept him, oh wait, that's right they traded him.

Scott Chandler is 26, slow, invisible outside the redzone, and has a 9-game span of NFL-quality play. He also had a whopping 38 receptions last year!

KW had 75 receptions and twice the yards despite supposedly being all those things you said--and playing in a craptastic offense. :rofl:

[Jan Reimers]

JanReimers, Chandler is only 2 years younger than Winslow--and is useless between the 20's. I know he's a scrappy, hurr-durr whiteboy that probably watches the 700 Club, but we need more talent at that position.
After a totally idiotic comment like this, you should really rethink calling some of us "stupid."

I have no idea of the relevance of a "scrappy, hurr-durr whiteboy that probably watches the 700 Club" to this discussion.

You will be the first person in a long time to go my Ignore List.

[BillsOverDolphins]

You will be the first person in a long time to go my Ignore List.
Oh no! I'm on another homer's ignore list? Whatever shall I do?!

Your capitulation to the Winslow>>>>>>Chandler point is duly noted, though.

Facts can be a ***** sometimes.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Kellen Winslow is not sticking with teams for a reason. He's not a good guy to have in your locker room by all accounts.
The guy is a headcase the Bills don't necesarily need.
Chandler does the job on 3rd and shrt and in the red zone. David Nelson is the inside recieving threat that can get up in the seam. He went from 31 catches his first year to 61 his second. Those two are reliable, smart, team players who catch everything that hits their hands.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Kellen Winslow is not sticking with teams for a reason.
Scott Chandler has been on 4 teams (5 if you count both stints with the Cowboys), while KW's been with 3...Chandler's also been in the league for less year's than KW too.:rofl:

Can we get the next asinine argument?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Scott Chandler has been on 4 teams (5 if you count both stints with the Cowboys), while KW's been with 3...Chandler's also been in the league for less year's than KW too.:rofl:

Can we get the next asinine argument?

I like the selective reading. You could be less of a jackass in a conversation. If that's the kind of poster you want to be, then the good conversations are going to leave you out by default.

As talented as Winslow is, no one has re-signed him at the end of his contract and he is "disgruntled" everywhere he goes.
You want to coach that crap?

[BillsOverDolphins]

I like the selective reading. You could be less of a jackass in a conversation. If that's the kind of poster you want to be, then the good conversations are going to leave you out by default.

As talented as Winslow is, no one has re-signed him at the end of his contract and he is "disgruntled" everywhere he goes.
You want to coach that crap?

I'd be less of an ******* if people weren't such maniacal Jim Jonsian homers here.

Winslow has started all 16 games 3 straight years now and has been a steady 75+ reception, 700+ yard guy in all those seasons. That's world's better than anything we've had for awhile now. He's also only 2 years older than Chandler and is more productive. Hell yes I'd love him on my team. Offensive talent is always welcome when you have complete **** at WR and TE (outside of Stevie).

The "character issues" schtick is so effing stupid an argument to make--especially for a team that has talent issues. We've sucked with "good guys" for too long now. Get some attitude in here.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd be less of an ******* if people weren't such maniacal Jim Jonsian homers here.

Winslow has started all 16 games 3 straight years now and has been a steady 75+ reception, 700+ yard guy in all those seasons. That's world's better than anything we've had for awhile now. He's also only 2 years older than Chandler and is more productive. Hell yes I'd love him on my team. Offensive talent is always welcome when you have complete **** at WR and TE (outside of Stevie).

The "character issues" schtick is so effing stupid an argument to make--especially for a team that has talent issues. We've sucked with "good guys" for too long now. Get some attitude in here.

Oh he has?

He's started 15, 11 and 14 games respectively the past 3 seasons.

[Mr. Pink]

Oh no! I'm on another homer's ignore list? Whatever shall I do?!

Your capitulation to the Winslow>>>>>>Chandler point is duly noted, though.

Facts can be a ***** sometimes.


Again...

KII going into 2008 >>>>> Chandler now...

This ain't 2008.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Again...

KII going into 2008 >>>>> Chandler now...

This ain't 2008.

Unfortunately, you have no statistics to back that up except for your homer opinion.

[ddaryl]

Here is something of interest. All of the Bills TE are over 6'-5" and most weigh over 250 lbs... with one exception.

Maybe one of the reasons the Bills were not interested in Winslow is that he doesn't fit their scheme..... on top of all the other legitimate reasons being discussed here

Also the Bills are sticking to their theme of developing and rewarding their own players and not fishing for quick fixes that tend to cause more problems down the line , but instead are being patient. lack of patience along with bad drafting is a major reason why we have had a decade + of bad Bills football

http://i.imm.io/qajE.png

[BillsOverDolphins]

Oh he has?

He's started 15, 11 and 14 games respectively the past 3 seasons.
He also has only missed 4 games since his first 2 years (the last month of 2008).

[Mr. Pink]

Unfortunately, you have no statistics to back that up except for your homer opinion.


There's a first me being accused of being a homer. LOL

Again, if KII is SOOOOO awesome, why did the Bucs jettison him?

Hell, why did the Browns let him go when he only had the knees of a 35 year old?

[BillsOverDolphins]

Here is something of interest. All of the Bills TE are over 6'-5" and most weigh over 250 lbs... with one exception.

Maybe one of the reasons the Bills were not interested in Winslow is that he doesn't fit their scheme..... on top of all the other legitimate reasons being discussed here

http://i.imm.io/qajE.png
He's too productive to be on the Bills. He doesn't fit the nondescript, inconsistent model we're accustomed to.

[Mr. Pink]

He also has only missed 4 games since his first 2 years (the last month of 2008).


Try again. He missed 6 games in 2008.

[BillsOverDolphins]

There's a first me being accused of being a homer. LOL

Again, if KII is SOOOOO awesome, why did the Bucs jettison him?

Hell, why did the Browns let him go when he only had the knees of a 35 year old?

Such stupid logic.

If Randy Moss was so awesome, how come he was traded to New England for just a 4th round pick? ...and before you spill seed all over yourself, I'm not saying Winslow is Moss...I'm just saying your argument is flawed.

Look at KW's production the last 3 years with Josh freaking Freeman as his QB...now look at Chandler's production in that same time period.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Try again. He missed 6 games in 2008.

So your argument against him is that he missed 6 games 4 years ago:rofl:

[Mr. Pink]

Such stupid logic.

If Randy Moss was so awesome, how come he was traded to New England for just a 4th round pick? ...and before you spill seed all over yourself, I'm not saying Winslow is Moss...I'm just saying your argument is flawed.

Look at KW's production the last 3 years with Josh freaking Freeman as his QB...now look at Chandler's production in that same time period.


Josh Freeman > Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn

Oh and look, KII's production has gone down since 2007!

But that means nothing, right?

I have no idea what Chandler will do this season...but I can guarantee you that KII's production will be even less than it was...he's a player in decline because his knees are shot. So what do you tie your hopes to a guy and pray his knees can hold out for another 2 years?

Your logic is flawed or you again, back to my original point, heard of him so he must be good.

This doesn't even touch on go look at what tight ends have historically done with Gailey as a HC/OC...a whole lot of nothing. Tony Gonzalez is the only exception over Gaileys career. And there ain't no way in hell you, or anyone else, is gonna try to argue KII is as good as Gonzo.

[Mr. Pink]

So your argument against him is that he missed 6 games 4 years ago:rofl:


Nope, just proving you wrong on everything you've said on this topic. I'm having fun!

[BillsOverDolphins]

Winslow isn't an upgrade...he's a lateral move.

Careers:

Winslow: 28 y/o, 437 rec, 4836 yards, 23 tds.

Chandler: 26 y/o, 39 rec, 397 yds, 6 tds.

:roflmao: yeah, you're winning the major points of this argument alright.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Oh and look, KII's production has gone down since 2007!


He had more receptions and yards last year than in 2010. Now YOU'VE been proven wrong twice. :rofl:

My points are more valid and important, though...b/c the endgame is KW>>>>>>>>SC, and you have absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

Please provide some, if you do.

[Mr. Pink]

He had more receptions and yards last year than in 2010. Now YOU'VE been proven wrong twice. :rofl:

My points are more valid and important, though...b/c the endgame is KW>>>>>>>>SC, and you have absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

Please provide some, if you do.


And less TDs and less YPC...Don't forget those.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Chandler was pretty effective the first time he ever got a chance to start. David Nelson gives us a similar threat. Winslow would command more salary than both of them combined and offer little, if any difference. Winslow, unlike Chandler and Nelson, was absent inside the 20. All those starts last year and all those catches and he has 2 TD's. As a matter of fact, Winslow has never had more than 5 TD's in a season. Chandler had 6 in his very first season as a starter.
Your argument is that you would sell out and take a bunch of convicts and
a-holes if it meant winning.
Most Bills fans do not share that sentiment. Do we tell you how stupid that is? No. We're not you.

[BillsOverDolphins]

And less TDs and less YPC...Don't forget those.

Then maybe you should specify your criteria. Having more receptions and yards =/= less production.

btw, anytime you want to prove how SC is a better TE than KW you're free to do so. That is the point of this argument, after all.

[Mr. Pink]

Careers:

Winslow: 28 y/o, 437 rec, 4836 yards, 23 tds.

Chandler: 26 y/o, 39 rec, 397 yds, 6 tds.

:roflmao: yeah, you're winning the major points of this argument alright.


Since you're all about stats maybe we can coax Kellen Winslow Sr out of retirement then. I mean obviously the only thing you care about is stats, but only the stats that benefit your argument. Like you left off the fact KII's ypc and td's were down in 2011.

Apparently all you care about is a fantasy football approach to building a team...health, leadership, attitude, mentality don't matter right? Team situation doesn't matter right?

Again, go look at what tight ends have historically done with Gailey as the HC or OC...Chandler had a good year in comparison to all of them not named Tony Gonzalez.

[Mr. Pink]

Then maybe you should specify your criteria. Having more receptions and yards =/= less production.

btw, anytime you want to prove how SC is a better TE than KW you're free to do so. That is the point of this argument, after all.


Fine.

Scott Chandler will still be a productive member of the Bills offense when KII is retired because his knees can't handle it anymore.

But again we know the only thing that matters to you is numbers.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Your argument is that you would sell out and take a bunch of convicts and
a-holes if it meant winning.
Most Bills fans do not share that sentiment. Do we tell you how stupid that is? No. We're not you.

You embody the lovable loser mentality, don't you?

I don't give a rat's ass what these guys do off the field--and they don't give a **** about you either. As long as they're helping my team win it's all good.

I want talented players with attitude. Not the emasculated, leave-it-to-beaver types we're accustomed to.

[Mr. Pink]

You embody the lovable loser mentality, don't you?

I don't give a rat's ass what these guys do off the field--and they don't give a **** about you either. As long as they're helping my team win it's all good.


Now you want to go the winner approach?

What the hell has any team won while KII has been on their roster?

[BillsOverDolphins]

Fine.

Scott Chandler will still be a productive member of the Bills offense when KII is retired because his knees can't handle it anymore.

But again we know the only thing that matters to you is numbers.

You keep talking about KW's knees, yet ignore the fact that those knees helped him get twice the receptions and yards of SC last year...way to support your argument, champ:up:

[BillsOverDolphins]

Now you want to go the winner approach?

What the hell has any team won while KII has been on their roster?
Yes, it's KW's fault that he couldn't lead Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, and Josh Freeman to the playoffs. He helped 2 of those QB's get to 10 wins, though, and both those squads overachieved bigtime in large part to his help.

What has Chandler done?

[Mr. Pink]

Yes, it's KW's fault that he couldn't lead Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, and Josh Freeman to the playoffs. He helped 2 of those QB's get to 10 wins, though, and both those squads overachieved bigtime in large part to his help.

What has Chandler done?


The 2007 Browns overachieved because of KII?!?

I've heard it all now...

I'm done with you and your delusions.

[BillsOverDolphins]

The 2007 Browns overachieved because of KII?!?

I've heard it all now...

I'm done with you and your delusions.

:roflmao: yeah I'd look for an exit strategy too if I didn't have a leg to stand on.

Was 2007 KW's best statistical year? Do you think that might have contributed to the Browns' good record that year?

For the record, you leave this this thread with the inability to prove that SC is anywhere close to KW in terms of talent and production. Chandler went AWOL last year when his team needed him most. Whether it was due to injury (ironic, considering the bs in this thread), or just plain sucking, he was unreliable.

[Luisito23]

He's been dealt to Seattle, no need to keep on talking about him.

[ddaryl]

:popcorn:

[we are]

This is all a moot point now because he's a Seahawk, but I can cherry pick stats to my liking too:

Chandler: 38, 389, 6

Winslow: 75, 763, 2

So Chandler had half the catches, half the yards, but 4 more TDs---none of which came in his last 7 games:roflmao:

"Buh-buh-but he might ruin team chemistry!:( :( :( "

Yeah, let's not mess with our 13-year streak of futility...that's some delicate chemistry right there!

JanReimers, Chandler is only 2 years younger than Winslow--and is useless between the 20's. I know he's a scrappy, hurr-durr whiteboy that probably watches the 700 Club, but we need more talent at that position.

Scoffing an "injured, attitude problem" guy who had 75 receptions last year in a terrible offense is laughable when you look at what the Bills have at TE.

Op was right about you guys--you're scared to stunt the growth of a "future" that never comes.

Yeah, white guys definitely can't play tight end.

we get it dude, you live in Miami and love all players from the U. Give it a rest

[BillsOverDolphins]

Luisito is ultimately right...I'm just no longer content to stand idly by and listen to stupid **** like "SC>KW." I've been reading ******ed takes on here for almost 10 years now without speaking up against them. Enough is enough.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Yeah, white guys definitely can't play tight end.

we get it dude, you live in Miami and love all players from the U. Give it a rest
Did I say they couldn't?

[Mr. Pink]

I'll be sure to remind certain people when KII's production slides again this year.

[BillsOverDolphins]

I'll be sure to remind certain people when KII's production slides again this year.
Wanna bet that KW outgains and outcatches SC again?






Didn't think so.

[kishoph]

Wanna bet that KW outgains and outcatches SC again?






Didn't think so.

I think I would rather go with a TE that is productive in the red zone (6 TDs') over a TE that is trying to be a wideout and taking away targets from my WR's that have been more productive, 4 WR's with over 30 receptions each on the Bucs each had far better ypc and all accounted for more TD's than Winslow, who is more of a David Nelson type receiver than a true TE and BTW Nelson was just as productive as Winslow last season, that's if you value TD's more then receptions, 5 TD's for Nelson, plus a better ypc and more 20+ yd. plays than Winslow who did have more receptions and 1st downs, but was also targeted 25 more times than Nelson. Winslow isn't a slouch, but he's no upgrade over what we have now in younger players that are cheaper with healthy knees and far less of a headache. Keep trying to convince yourself that KW is this huge upgrade that should of been brought in and was worth an inflated salary and destroying any team chemistry that has been built over the last 2 years, because, I don't think anyone else will buy it.

[BillsOverDolphins]

I think I would rather go with a TE that is productive in the red zone (6 TDs') over a TE that is trying to be a wideout and taking away targets from my WR's that have been more productive, 4 WR's with over 30 receptions each on the Bucs each had far better ypc and all accounted for more TD's than Winslow, who is more of a David Nelson type receiver than a true TE and BTW Nelson was just as productive as Winslow last season, that's if you value TD's more then receptions, 5 TD's for Nelson, plus a better ypc and more 20+ yd. plays than Winslow who did have more receptions and 1st downs, but was also targeted 25 more times than Nelson. Winslow isn't a slouch, but he's no upgrade over what we have now in younger players that are cheaper with healthy knees and far less of a headache. Keep trying to convince yourself that KW is this huge upgrade that should of been brought in and was worth an inflated salary and destroying any team chemistry that has been built over the last 2 years, because, I don't think anyone else will buy it.

You would rather go with a TE who--outside of the first 9 games of 2011--has been a non-factor his entire career? I don't have to convince myself--the statistics support my argument. You guys are the one's attaching yourselves to Chandler's scrote like barnacles.

Chandler went AWOL when the team needed him most--and it's not like there were great weapons taking away from his touches either. You mean to tell me Ruvell Martin and Naaman Roosevelt were eating into his production?:rofl:


Lastly, drop the "destroying team chemistry:( " bull*****...We have chemistry to the tune of 10-22...lodi-frickin-da

[ParanoidAndroid]

Wanna bet that KW outgains and outcatches SC again?






Didn't think so.

Interesting. Seattle is the TE Black Hole. Zach Miller couldn't crack the top 30 TE's in the NFL on that team.
I'm not a betting man, except for little friendly bets, and since you've been kind of a wanker in this thread, it wouldn't be friendly.


You have to look at the sum of all parts. It's not as simple as you would like to think. You like to ignore half of the information in a post and I think you find that convenient.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Interesting. Seattle is the TE Black Hole. Zach Miller couldn't crack the top 30 TE's in the NFL on that team.
I'm not a betting man, except for little friendly bets, but since you've been kind of a wanker in this thread, it wouldn't be friendly.

You have to look at the sum of all parts. It's not as simple as SC<KW. He is more talented and I wasn't arguing that. The problem is that he would not get us any more than Nelson does and that is who Winslow would be putting on the bench....maybe. Chandler would still get on the field because Winslow can't in-line block for s***.

I imagine there won't be any betting men in this thread...let the excuses flow

[ParanoidAndroid]

You would rather go with a TE who--outside of the first 9 games of 2011--has been a non-factor his entire career? I don't have to convince myself--the statistics support my argument. You guys are the one's attaching yourselves to Chandler's scrote like barnacles.

Chandler went AWOL when the team needed him most--and it's not like there were great weapons taking away from his touches either. You mean to tell me Ruvell Martin and Naaman Roosevelt were eating into his production?:rofl:


Lastly, drop the "destroying team chemistry:( " bull*****...We have chemistry to the tune of 10-22...lodi-frickin-da

Did you watch the games. Chandler was staying home and blocking way more after the O-line injuries.....something Winslow would never do even if he had the ability.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Did you watch the games.
Unfortunately, I did...are you really going to these lengths to defend his invisible play?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I imagine there won't be any betting men in this thread...let the excuses flow

Could you be any more lame? You have some serious tunnel vision.

Let me try.....

How freakin' stupid can you be for even considering Winslow after he gave two organizations headaches? All he would do is come in here and moan about how Johnson, Jackson, and Nelson get more touches. Not only that, you wanted to give up a draft pick to get ahead of Seattle on the deal. I mean, Nelson had 61 catches in his second season, more TD's, and higher YPC average than Winslow and that is who he would essentially be replacing since he can't block.

I'm so sick of this attitude that we have to go out and sign everybody who comes available whether it makes any sense at all.

I just realized something..... I'm nowhere near as good as you at being a douche bag.

[BillsOverDolphins]

I just realized something..... I'm nowhere near as good as you at being a douche bag.
You are really good at being a liar, though: "Chandler was staying home and blocking way more after the O-line injuries.....something Winslow would never do even if he had the ability."

Chandler had 28 targets in his last 7 games, compared to 19 in his first 7:roflmao:

Who didn't watch the games, now? Truth: he's a nice b/u TE, but not consistent starting quality like a KW.


These are things we know, backed up with statistical evidence.

[BillsOverDolphins]

I don't understand why it's so hard for some of you people to admit you're wrong. Homerism really is a cancer.

[ParanoidAndroid]

You are really good at being a liar, though: "Chandler was staying home and blocking way more after the O-line injuries.....something Winslow would never do even if he had the ability."

Chandler had 28 targets in his last 7 games, compared to 19 in his first 7:roflmao:

Who didn't watch the games, now? Truth: he's a nice b/u TE, but not consistent starting quality like a KW.


These are things we know, backed up with statistical evidence.

The stat doesn't tell the damn story. He was an outlet rather than going out and running a pattern. I remember watching that in frustration the last half of the year. Just because you can go look up fantasy football stats doesn't mean a thing about the reality of what happened on the field.
Now you're calling me a liar...... ok. Later.

[BillsOverDolphins]

The stat doesn't tell the damn story. He was an outlet rather than going out and running a pattern. I remember watching that in frustration the last half of the year. Just because you can go look up fantasy football stats doesn't mean a thing about the reality of what happened on the field.
Now you're calling me a liar...... ok. Later.
I'm only quoting what you said...take it easy, scro.

How can he "stay at home more" yet get more targets? You realize that doesn't make any sense, right? Also, don't further exacerbate your bs by saying he was merely an outlet. He was useless outside of the redzone the entire year. You can't coach slow.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Chandler is our TE and Winslow isn't, so that's that. Just don't spout a bunch of bs without backing it up.

2012: Year of the homer holocaust. I'm not conceding to sunshiners anymore.

[Mr. Pink]

Wanna bet that KW outgains and outcatches SC again?






Didn't think so.


Friendly bet eh?

Ok since I don't know you personally, the only friendly bet I can come up with is ZBs.

You got 50k in ZBs...I bet you 50k ZBs that Winslow doesn't outproduce Chandler.

Seattle is where TE's go to die and Winslow's skillset is diminishing on top of it.

Which stats do you wanna go with, because I can cherry pick stats too, who had more TDs last year? Chandler. After all scoring is all that matters in this league anyway.

[Mike]

Friendly bet eh?

Ok since I don't know you personally, the only friendly bet I can come up with is ZBs.

You got 50k in ZBs...I bet you 50k ZBs that Winslow doesn't outproduce Chandler.

Seattle is where TE's go to die and Winslow's skillset is diminishing on top of it.

Which stats do you wanna go with, because I can cherry pick stats too, who had more TDs last year? Chandler. After all scoring is all that matters in this league anyway.

Why dont you use Fantasy Points as a barometer. It takes, TD, yards, etc into account. Who ever has more point at seasons end get the 50K Zone Bucks

[Mike]

If one of the players get injured you can cancel the bet or if both players played at least 4 games, you can take average points per game.

All Set.

I want to see who WINS this Bet.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Friendly bet eh?

Ok since I don't know you personally, the only friendly bet I can come up with is ZBs.

You got 50k in ZBs...I bet you 50k ZBs that Winslow doesn't outproduce Chandler.

Seattle is where TE's go to die and Winslow's skillset is diminishing on top of it.

Which stats do you wanna go with, because I can cherry pick stats too, who had more TDs last year? Chandler. After all scoring is all that matters in this league anyway.

Tell ya what...lets make 3 separate bets on tds, yds, and receptions. Make it 3 $50 bets...would BZ be up to escrowing our money via paypal? That way they could mediate so i know you wouldnt welsh.

If they don't wanna do that, then best 2/3 stats the loser has to put "BOD owns my soul" in their sig...for example.

[BillsOverDolphins]

If one of the players get injured you can cancel the bet or if both players played at least 4 games, you can take average points per game.

All Set.

I want to see who WINS this Bet.
I'd settle for that, but i want the sig too. I want my scalps.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I remember watching Winslow Sr play. He was better than both Jr and Chandler combined. That's the Winslow I'd like to see in Buffalo if he were in his prime. But, that's my opinion.

[Skooby]

He's all gone, so this is over.