Why is this team not a SB team?

[X-Era]

The thread title is meant to draw you in but also point out that that's the goal... Not the playoffs. The playoffs are a sub-goal. I think we've been so separated from great Bills football for so long that we've lowered our standards to thinking the goal is the playoffs... It isn't. I still want redemption for 4 Super Bowl losses. I want to finally win one or at least get there. That's the real goal.

So is this team worthy? Can we do it with this FO, Coaching staff, and squad?

If not, why?

I'll start it out by saying at best Fitz is Eli Manning or Trent Dilfer... That comment alone shows what I think the rest of the team needs to be to be able to make it to the SB or win one...

Position by position are we there? What are we lacking? How do we compare to other SB appearing or winning teams?

[mightysimi]

I think you severely underrate Eli Manning. I think a couple of years in the same system to truly perfect the plays is what it will take. That and a major injury free year for once.

[Prov401]

Eli played a major role in winning both superbowls for the Giants. It's safe to say without him, they probably wouldn't have won anything. Dilfer was just lucky to be on a team with one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL. The Fitz/Eli comparison is way off.

[Marvelous]

I'll give Er a go,but I hate long post on this ******ed keypad on this awful iPhone---

[cgbm]

fitz is not the answer....

he is a band aid on the laceration that we call and offense.

we need a neosporin manning, brees, rogers, etc..... (all won superbowls)

facts are facts.

refer you to my sig...

[Beebe's Kid]

fitz is not the answer....

he is a band aid on the laceration that we call and offense.

we need a neosporin manning, brees, rogers, etc..... (all won superbowls)

facts are facts.

refer you to my sig...

Easy, Francis

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/itsamelman/Freep/stripes127.jpg

[DrGraves]

I honestly think it is the depth that is holding us back. While I don't think Fitz is anything more than very average, he is good enough to win games (see Pats week 3). Injuries are inevitable for every team. We don't have enough on the roster to overcome them...

[Marvelous]

-QB -Fitz= check
-RB-Fred-X= absolutely check
-RB-2-- NO
-FB-irrelevant
-WR-NO
-TE-NO
-Tackles-almost but NO
-guards-YES!
-C- yes(wood) so YES!
-RE-maybe-I'll lean towards YES
-LE-YES
-DT/NT- YES!
-DT-YES!
-OLB-Sam-YES!
-MLB-NO
-OLB-will-YES
-CB-NO
-FS-NO
-SS-NO
-Special-YES!
-Coaching-YES

-------now depth---
QB-I dunno,dudes a ****** who spells better then me.
-RB-hmm-I'll say YES
WR-NO--all we have is Stevie Johnson and he is-NOT a Super Bowl caliber player IMO,atleast not yet,or not alone he isn't.
-WR-2-5-the worst core since before early 90's!!NO!!
-TE-depth-NO
-O-line depth-YES. Center depth??who cares.
-DE-depth-heck yea! Kelsey!
-DT-depth-I dunno-I'm leaning NO
-OLB-depth-rookies
-MLB-depth-NO-cause unknowns are starting lol
CB depth -YES
-FS depth-NO
-SS depth -YES

--I'm always a glass Half full kinda fan,but
Our WR core is awful and TE beat WR has maturity issues(not-debatable)!
-TE-yeah he caught a few early, but even my wife complained about his mediocre speed.
-o-line-yeah it's up & coming,but it was bad last year,it will be average at beat until they click. We're screwed if any injury.
D-line-I like it. Über ! Nuff said.
-LB's--I love our TCU white rookie. I was hoping for him a whole round earlier.
And last years LSU rookie will be awesome this year !
-Merriman-I lost faith. Hope for best!
-CB's--man on paper it looks good. drayton Florence was important. Now that only leaves McKelvin as the leader and the 1st 3weeks well have McGee. Future looks very bright. I hope it starts now!
FS-man wtf happened to mr.9 int's BYrd???
SS-I love last years rookie. Forget name. 5th rounder I think. Wht! Sounds stupid cause I said I like him and forgt his name. Sorry.
-K--man this house is a Lindell fan & weren't until we lost him. Classic lesson learned=you dunno what u have till its gone! Lol
-staff--Wanny is a beast 4-3 base coach! Woot

-we had a uber draft. But we failed to upgrade WR in free agency &/or draft. No pun to the WR we drafted. Not the kind of room u put faith in prematurely eh.
-TE-yeah right- nobody ignores the position better then us!!!


-Fitz is 100% awesome and his season proved it. I saw all the tipped passes for int's & I saw the mediocrity surrounding him.
-IMO we rebuilt a good team. Good enough to break our mediocrity IMO.
I just hope The Ralph lives to see it in the season after this one.

Thanks for reading my dragged-out post.

[OpIv37]

Fitz is not a SB-caliber QB.

WR is a ? after Stevie.

No OT's.

CB's are inexperienced and LB is a ? as well.

Don't get me wrong. The DL should be spectacular and could cover some holes in the back 7, we have two top RB's and Stevie can play, so I expect this team to compete for a playoff spot. But, realistically, there are too many holes to be legit SB contenders. We are at least two off-seasons away from that, maybe more if we have to wait on a rookie QB.

[Meathead]

last year the bills had playoff caliber starters and basement caliber backups

this year they have playoff caliber starters and some playoff caliber backups

so like a lot of teams they certainly could make the playoffs and once there anything can happen, including winning a title. but theyll need some breaks in both injuries and bounces to do it

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Because the Patriots still have Brady and Belicheat.

[Slim]

Fitz is not a SB-caliber QB.

WR is a ? after Stevie.

No OT's.

CB's are inexperienced and LB is a ? as well.

Don't get me wrong. The DL should be spectacular and could cover some holes in the back 7, we have two top RB's and Stevie can play, so I expect this team to compete for a playoff spot. But, realistically, there are too many holes to be legit SB contenders. We are at least two off-seasons away from that, maybe more if we have to wait on a rookie QB.

I think you can assume we have at least one OT. We may not have a good one of the left side, but between Pears, Hairston, and Glenn we have the right side locked down.

[Slim]

Because the Patriots still have Brady and Belicheat.

Any day know that horseshoe is going to fall out of Brady's ass.

[BertSquirtgum]

I've said this many times. Fitz's noodle arm will be the reason this team can't win a Super Bowl. I think they have a great chance at making the playoffs but when the team needs a quarterback to carry them, Fitznoodle is not the guy.

[Beebe]

We will win the SUPERBOWL.:fattony:

[BillsOverDolphins]

Like others have echoed, Fitz is not a SB-caliber QB...i like the guy and think he can win us some playoff games, but he's ultimately not the answer. Our lack of playmakers at the WR and TE position will be our undoing.



Btw, Eli Manning is a boss and is as clutch as they come...

[YardRat]

We could if 'potential' manifests itself as 'performance' on Sundays.

[Buddo]

While not something you could rely on, the past has shown that Fitz does have some very good days, when he's extremely 'hot'.
String a few of those together, after getting to the playoffs, and he could actually be a reason why we win a SB.
Do I think that's the way forward, i.e. hoping for a Fitz 'streak' come playoff time? - No, but it isn't quite so far fetched as some of the other stuff that has happened in the NFL over the years.
The Defence might be good enough to win a few games on it's own, while Fitz is having a 'tanking it' streak.
While it would be nice to see a good, distinct #2 WR, we do have a number of guys who can make plays, and sometimes it's about finding the right guy for the right game.
I've got a feeling that working with David Lee will actually improve Fitz, but I'd hesitate to say by how much. Seems to me that they are both on the same page, as far as understanding what needs to be done.

I think we could win a SB with this roster, but it'll take a lot of the 'aligning of planets' for it to happen.
I also believe that while we always have ? at different positions, that we hope will pan out, we have more depth and alternatives this time around, than we have had for some considerable time. There are also a few possibilities for people to 'step up', and if they do, we could be looking very good for some time to come.

I still don't see Fitz as a 'franchise' QB, bu if he does become a fair bit more consistent under Lee, he might prove to be a guy who can continue to take the team forward, while we search for a genuine QB for the future.

[Historian]

I think the pass rush on defense will aid the back seven immensely.

I want to see what Fitz looks like with an extra second to throw.

When they were on...they were on last year. (the o)

[mayotm]

-QB -Fitz= check
-RB-Fred-X= absolutely check
-RB-2-- NO
-FB-irrelevant
-WR-NO
-TE-NO
-Tackles-almost but NO
-guards-YES!
-C- yes(wood) so YES!
-RE-maybe-I'll lean towards YES
-LE-YES
-DT/NT- YES!
-DT-YES!
-OLB-Sam-YES!
-MLB-NO
-OLB-will-YES
-CB-NO
-FS-NO
-SS-NO
-Special-YES!
-Coaching-YES

-------now depth---
QB-I dunno,dudes a ****** who spells better then me.
-RB-hmm-I'll say YES
WR-NO--all we have is Stevie Johnson and he is-NOT a Super Bowl caliber player IMO,atleast not yet,or not alone he isn't.
-WR-2-5-the worst core since before early 90's!!NO!!
-TE-depth-NO
-O-line depth-YES. Center depth??who cares.
-DE-depth-heck yea! Kelsey!
-DT-depth-I dunno-I'm leaning NO
-OLB-depth-rookies
-MLB-depth-NO-cause unknowns are starting lol
CB depth -YES
-FS depth-NO
-SS depth -YES

--I'm always a glass Half full kinda fan,but
Our WR core is awful and TE beat WR has maturity issues(not-debatable)!
-TE-yeah he caught a few early, but even my wife complained about his mediocre speed.
-o-line-yeah it's up & coming,but it was bad last year,it will be average at beat until they click. We're screwed if any injury.
D-line-I like it. Über ! Nuff said.
-LB's--I love our TCU white rookie. I was hoping for him a whole round earlier.
And last years LSU rookie will be awesome this year !
-Merriman-I lost faith. Hope for best!
-CB's--man on paper it looks good. drayton Florence was important. Now that only leaves McKelvin as the leader and the 1st 3weeks well have McGee. Future looks very bright. I hope it starts now!
FS-man wtf happened to mr.9 int's BYrd???
SS-I love last years rookie. Forget name. 5th rounder I think. Wht! Sounds stupid cause I said I like him and forgt his name. Sorry.
-K--man this house is a Lindell fan & weren't until we lost him. Classic lesson learned=you dunno what u have till its gone! Lol
-staff--Wanny is a beast 4-3 base coach! Woot

-we had a uber draft. But we failed to upgrade WR in free agency &/or draft. No pun to the WR we drafted. Not the kind of room u put faith in prematurely eh.
-TE-yeah right- nobody ignores the position better then us!!!


-Fitz is 100% awesome and his season proved it. I saw all the tipped passes for int's & I saw the mediocrity surrounding him.
-IMO we rebuilt a good team. Good enough to break our mediocrity IMO.
I just hope The Ralph lives to see it in the season after this one.

Thanks for reading my dragged-out post.I'm not trying to pick on you, but your writing style makes a lot of your posts difficult to follow.

[BillsOverDolphins]

While not something you could rely on, the past has shown that Fitz does have some very good days, when he's extremely 'hot'.
String a few of those together, after getting to the playoffs, and he could actually be a reason why we win a SB.
Do I think that's the way forward, i.e. hoping for a Fitz 'streak' come playoff time? - No, but it isn't quite so far fetched as some of the other stuff that has happened in the NFL over the years.
The Defence might be good enough to win a few games on it's own, while Fitz is having a 'tanking it' streak.
While it would be nice to see a good, distinct #2 WR, we do have a number of guys who can make plays, and sometimes it's about finding the right guy for the right game.
I've got a feeling that working with David Lee will actually improve Fitz, but I'd hesitate to say by how much. Seems to me that they are both on the same page, as far as understanding what needs to be done.

I think we could win a SB with this roster, but it'll take a lot of the 'aligning of planets' for it to happen.
I also believe that while we always have ? at different positions, that we hope will pan out, we have more depth and alternatives this time around, than we have had for some considerable time. There are also a few possibilities for people to 'step up', and if they do, we could be looking very good for some time to come.

I still don't see Fitz as a 'franchise' QB, bu if he does become a fair bit more consistent under Lee, he might prove to be a guy who can continue to take the team forward, while we search for a genuine QB for the future.

That's a fair assessment of Fitz. I'd love for him to be our starter if we win a SB, but he's gonna need a ton of help to get it--and right now there's not much help from the WR and TE position. We've got one really good receiver and a bunch of nobodies. Our TE is non-factor between the 20's too. I think Fitz could be the guy if a couple people step up in the passing game. I don't expect much from Jones, Graham, et al...but I am still cautiously optimistic about Easley. His potential--and health--are a major factor in how effective our O will be this year.

[casdhf]

I'll take a "fluke" super bowl victory.

[ddaryl]

I always thought the goal was Superbowl glory.. which is why I have been against the mentality that spending lots of money in FA and making wild trades draft day trades was not the short term answer...

The answer for any successful dynasty is to develop and maintain a core, and then use FA to bring in a impact player or 2 as well as fill the remaining holes.

Making the playoffs is great, but if you can't hang with the top teams and are quickly eliminated, then what was the point

[mybills]

Any team can win a SB.
Thanks for comparing Fitz to Eli. :up:

[OpIv37]

We could if 'potential' manifests itself as 'performance' on Sundays.
If they gave out the Lombardi trophy based on potential, we'd be in the hunt every year.

If they gave it out on unrealized potential, we would have won at least 6 of them in the 2000's.

[mayotm]

Any team can win a SB.
Thanks for comparing Fitz to Eli. :up:I like Fitz. I think the Bills can win with him. That stated, comparing him to Eli at this point is absurd. Eli has been to pro bowls. Eli has regularly been to the playoffs. Eli is a two time Super Bowl MVP. Fitz has done none of those things.

[better days]

Based on the Bills team, their schedule & other teams, I think the Bills have a real shot at the playoffs.

The Ravens for instance, lost Suggs, Ray Lewis is OLD as is much of their defense. They have a bigger ? at QB than the Bills do.

The Jets have a new OC with a new system. Sparano likes to run the ball, but he does not have a Rickey Williams or Ronnie Brown on that team.

IMO, the Pats* look to be the most dominant team in the AFC & they are not what they used to be.

[justasportsfan]

Ralph is cheap

[Extremebillsfan247]

The thread title is meant to draw you in but also point out that that's the goal... Not the playoffs. The playoffs are a sub-goal. I think we've been so separated from great Bills football for so long that we've lowered our standards to thinking the goal is the playoffs... It isn't. I still want redemption for 4 Super Bowl losses. I want to finally win one or at least get there. That's the real goal.

So is this team worthy? Can we do it with this FO, Coaching staff, and squad?

If not, why?

I'll start it out by saying at best Fitz is Eli Manning or Trent Dilfer... That comment alone shows what I think the rest of the team needs to be to be able to make it to the SB or win one...

Position by position are we there? What are we lacking? How do we compare to other SB appearing or winning teams?You have to learn to walk before you can run a full sprint. It is, and it should be the goal of every NFL team to get to the Super Bowl, and win it. But not all of them can walk yet. Fitz is better than Dilfer, not quite Eli Manning talent wise. As far as coaching, this is probably the best staff I've seen in Buffalo in many years.

As far as being worthy, once this team learns to walk (win) we will have to see if they can sprint without tripping over their own feet. As Nix once said, "Show me the baby". We are seeing that baby, but how fast it matures and grows into something special is still a work in progress. I think this year is when that baby gets its first true test. One of 2 things will happen. It will either walk, or resume crawling, eventually coming back to the point of a fetal position, leading to a changing of the guard, and we try again. JMO

[better days]

You have to learn to walk before you can run a full sprint. It is, and it should be the goal of every NFL team to get to the Super Bowl, and win it. But not all of them can walk yet. Fitz is better than Dilfer, not quite Eli Manning talent wise. As far as coaching, this is probably the best staff I've seen in Buffalo in many years.

As far as being worthy, once this team learns to walk (win) we will have to see if they can sprint without tripping over their own feet. As Nix once said, "Show me the baby". We are seeing that baby, but how fast it matures and grows into something special is still a work in progress. I think this year is when that baby gets its first true test. One of 2 things will happen. It will either walk, or resume crawling, eventually coming back to the point of a fetal position, leading to a changing of the guard, and we try again. JMO

So you think this team is for real & will play well, or not. Way to plant yourself firmly on the fence.

[blackonyx89]

I think this is a make or break year for Fitz. He really needs to step his game up and play his best to validate his salary. I also feel that the Bills really need to address the WR spot. They need a guy who will not only go in the middle to make key catches, but a guy that can intimidate corners and get down the field, quick fast and in a hurry.

Having a solid O-Line, especially protecting Fitz's blind side is also crucial. They also need an effective TE to solidify the offense. If the offense fails to be productive, you know the majority of the blame will fall on Fitz, whether people like it or not. I think defensively they will do well, how well remains to be seen.

[SABURZFAN]

this is TOO easy.....


The Owner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Extremebillsfan247]

So you think this team is for real & will play well, or not. Way to plant yourself firmly on the fence. I like the direction the team is going in. I'm not ready to say this team is a Super Bowl team when they haven't proven themselves yet. Maybe that makes me a bad fan. But to use a Nixism, "I want to see how many sharks are in the water before deciding whether I want to swim in it".

[better days]

I like the direction the team is going in. I'm not ready to say this team is a Super Bowl team when they haven't proven themselves yet. Maybe that makes me a bad fan. But to use a Nixism, "I want to see how many sharks are in the water before deciding whether I want to swim in it".

I did not mean to imply you are a bad fan. I say swim with the sharks myself. Just don't let them see blood.

[Meathead]

If they gave out the Lombardi trophy based on potential, we'd be in the hunt every year.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/184/sherlockholmes2no2.jpg

[YardRat]

Regardless of what anybody thinks about Fitz, the encouraging factor in this team is the front office/coaching staff are actually following the 'right' formula for success...build the lines and the defense, keep your own that are proven, don't slobber over a theoretical 'franchise' QB unless there is one there for the taking.

[ddaryl]

this is TOO easy.....


The Owner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh please do explain

[X-Era]

Thread course correction...

This thread wasn't just about Fitz... It's about the whole team.

[Prov401]

Based on the Bills team, their schedule & other teams, I think the Bills have a real shot at the playoffs.

The Ravens for instance, lost Suggs, Ray Lewis is OLD as is much of their defense. They have a bigger ? at QB than the Bills do.

The Jets have a new OC with a new system. Sparano likes to run the ball, but he does not have a Rickey Williams or Ronnie Brown on that team.

IMO, the Pats* look to be the most dominant team in the AFC & they are not what they used to be.

Really? Flacco was a Lee Evans dropped pass away from being in the Superbowl. He's gotten better every single year, and won the confidence of all his teammates after last postseason. I don't see how they have a question mark at that position, other than a contract extension.

[PTI]

Fitz is not even as good as Dilfer, this is crazy. Fitz has never been a top 20 QB, you compare to your contemporaries, Fitz and Dilfer are both twenty something best of the guys they competed against. Both turned out to be journeyman starters, but one guy actually has a winning record as a starter, and also has a SUper Bowl win. There is no legitimate way to even say Fitz is better than Dilfer.

[YardRat]

Fitz is not even as good as Dilfer, this is crazy. Fitz has never been a top 20 QB, you compare to your contemporaries, Fitz and Dilfer are both twenty something best of the guys they competed against. Both turned out to be journeyman starters, but one guy actually has a winning record as a starter, and also has a SUper Bowl win. There is no legitimate way to even say Fitz is better than Dilfer.

http://pantsinacan.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/broken_record.jpg

[Marvelous]

last year the bills had playoff caliber starters and basement caliber backups

this year they have playoff caliber starters and some playoff caliber backup
--this a really good post. I dunno if it's really clever or just worded Perfectly,but it derailed whatever I was going to say.
--Tou guys remember how we were always super-lucky in the injury dept say the Moulds&Spikes era. Rusty whatever was our trainer & like Lindell we had no idea what we had till it was gone. We lose atleast 6-10starters every year since. Ugh
-so good point about depth. No depth-no run

[Oaf]

F U, if we did what Denver did last year, I'll be a supremely happy camper.

I'll look for the next step in '13.

[Skooby]

Bills are a few years away at best, we just changed defenses for Christ's sake.

[X-Era]

Outside of the Fitz question, I think the overall team talent can cause some concern.

Can this team play decent enough defense and stellar offense to beat a high scoring squad like NE?

Can this team play decent offense against a stellar defense to score just enough to beat teams like the Ravens, Texans, Steelers?

Ive always said the equation can have a few forms:

1) Great HC, Great QB, Great offense, Average or worse defense (Indy with Dungy, Pats, SB Bills)
2) Good QB, good offense, great defense... (SB winning Ravens and Steelers, Eli Giants?)

You have to be great at either offense or defense and average at the other. And the better you are at the one, you can be worse at the other.

We have to be able to match-up with almost all of our opponents and be able to beat them... 10 wins minimum. That's what it takes IMO.

I honestly feel like we have to be able to logically power rank our team and be able to place ourselves in the top 15 to even have a chance. If we can name 17 teams that we are better than, I think we have a chance... And even then only the top 12 in the NFL (in wins) get in.

[YardRat]

Can this team play decent enough defense and stellar offense to beat a high scoring squad like NE?

Can this team play decent offense against a stellar defense to score just enough to beat teams like the Ravens, Texans, Steelers?

Considering the scrap heaps we've had the last couple of seasons did beat New England and should've beaten Pittsburgh and Baltimore, I would say yes.

[X-Era]

Considering the scrap heaps we've had the last couple of seasons did beat New England and should've beaten Pittsburgh and Baltimore, I would say yes.I cant totally disagree!

This team made huge strides in being able to beat those teams... It really was huge IMO.

But, I still feel we may be just a star or even a star and solid starter away from a playoff caliber squad.

I feel we need a stud LB still and a solid starter or stud at WR. I'm good with Fitz if our WR boasts Stevie and a star or solid #2. And I really like our D with a star LB or even a really good LB...

Our DL is great IMO. Our secondary has plenty of real good looking youngsters which I will accept if other areas are real strong... but our LB corp doesnt have a standout... It has Barnett who I love but don't consider a star and Merriman who may actually play DE and who hasn't done anything in years due to injuries.

Put it this way... If this team had WR1= Stevie and WR2= a guy like Colston or VJax, and our D had Patrick Willis in the middle... and the rest of the roster remained the same... I'd feel like we have what we need.

To me its great news... It means were literally a few good to great players away. Its possible that another FA and draftee or two draftees could do it... I can see possible solutions at WR from the draft (Woods, Hunter, Allen, Rogers) but I'm not so sure about LB outside of Jones or Te'o.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Outside of the Fitz question, I think the overall team talent can cause some concern.

Can this team play decent enough defense and stellar offense to beat a high scoring squad like NE?

Can this team play decent offense against a stellar defense to score just enough to beat teams like the Ravens, Texans, Steelers?

Ive always said the equation can have a few forms:

1) Great HC, Great QB, Great offense, Average or worse defense (Indy with Dungy, Pats, SB Bills)
2) Good QB, good offense, great defense... (SB winning Ravens and Steelers, Eli Giants?)

You have to be great at either offense or defense and average at the other. And the better you are at the one, you can be worse at the other.

We have to be able to match-up with almost all of our opponents and be able to beat them... 10 wins minimum. That's what it takes IMO.

I honestly feel like we have to be able to logically power rank our team and be able to place ourselves in the top 15 to even have a chance. If we can name 17 teams that we are better than, I think we have a chance... And even then only the top 12 in the NFL (in wins) get in.

There's 3 things you need to win a SB in today's NFL: an elite QB, at least 2 good/great receiving threats (be it wr, te, or one of each), and the ability to get pressure with your front 4. If you have all 3 of those things you will always be a contender.

We have an average QB....not a glaring weakness though
we have one good receiving threat
but we do have the potential to have a dominant front 4

[X-Era]

There's 3 things you need to win a SB in today's NFL: an elite QB, at least 2 good/great receiving threats (be it wr, te, or one of each), and the ability to get pressure with your front 4. If you have all 3 of those things you will always be a contender.

We have an average QB....not a glaring weakness though
we have one good receiving threat
but we do have the potential to have a dominant front 4Disagree. It's not that simple of an equation... Dilfer makes that point easily. NO did not have a great front 4.

I think its great O and average D or great D and average O... That can then be broken down further by position... for example HOF'er Brady + and average O = great O and they then can have an average to sub average D.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Disagree. It's not that simple of an equation... Dilfer makes that point easily. NO did not have a great front 4.

I think its great O and average D or great D and average O... That can then be broken down further by position... for example HOF'er Brady + and average O = great O and they then can have an average to sub average D.
Not many teams have all 3, but if you are great at 2/3 then you'll be better than most. The Dilfer argument doesnt work here bc that's not today's nfl. Today's NFL is pass-happy, and the rules reflect that...so naturally, those that can pass and those that can rush the passer will have the most success.

[X-Era]

Not many teams have all 3, but if you are great at 2/3 then you'll be better than most. The Dilfer argument doesnt work here bc that's not today's nfl. Today's NFL is pass-happy, and the rules reflect that...so naturally, those that can pass and those that can rush the passer will have the most success.But the Giants were 27th in the league in total defense during the regular season but were 3rd in sacks.

so a great O and average D (great at pass rush not good beyond that = average overall) doesn't fit the equation I've shown?

The Saints make the argument that it isn't that easy. They were 4th in overall defense (regular season) but 18th in sacks. But also 6th in overall O and with a QB that was 3rd in passing yards... They sucked at pass rushing but because they had a great D and very good O still won a SB.

[BillsOverDolphins]

But the Giants were 27th in the league in total defense during the regular season but were 3rd in sacks.

so a great O and average D (great at pass rush not good beyond that = average overall) doesn't fit the equation I've shown?

The Saints make the argument that it isn't that easy. They were 4th in overall defense (regular season) but 18th in sacks. But also 6th in overall O and with a QB that was 3rd in passing yards... They sucked at pass rushing but because they had a great D and very good O still won a SB.
When did i say it didnt fit? I said the dilfer argument doesnt fit because the game was called differently than in 2000. The Saints were great at 2/3 criteria. The Giants were bosses at 3/3.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Well, for one, the Bills' national support has been dwindling for the past decade without any real prospects of playoffs, so nobody really wants to see the Bills in the playoffs. It's the smallest market in the NFL (yes, smaller than Green Bay-Milwaukee) and is one step away from being out of its stadium lease, making it a tantalizing candidate to move to NFL-starved LA, and moving the Bills to California after their first playoff appearance in over a decade would look incredibly douchey, so the league would never allow itself to look that bad. The stadium decision, open-air in Buffalo's winter, paralyzes the team's own offense in the winter months, effectively causing a home-field disadvantage.

But the more specific, immediate reason: nothing was done to address the numerous injuries. Instead of the safer option of natural grass, they choose a cheap knockoff turf that has proven to make the injury situation even worse than before, and it was pretty consistently bad before, too. Their big free-agent acquisition, Mario Williams, spent the ends of the last two seasons on injured reserve.

[better days]

Really? Flacco was a Lee Evans dropped pass away from being in the Superbowl. He's gotten better every single year, and won the confidence of all his teammates after last postseason. I don't see how they have a question mark at that position, other than a contract extension.

Agreed they were a dropped pass away, but Flacco is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

Flacco has benifited from playing on a GOOD team IMO. Lets see how he does this year.

[BertSquirtgum]

Bills are a few years away at best, we just changed defenses for Christ's sake.

Doesn't mean anything.

[BertSquirtgum]

But, I still feel we may be just a star or even a star and solid starter away from a playoff caliber squad.

This is a playoff caliber team. I wouldn't have spent a bunch of money on season tickets if I didn't believe so.

[Skooby]

This is a playoff caliber team. I wouldn't have spent a bunch of money on season tickets if I didn't believe so.

Well this seals it then, we're good.

[PTI]

I am flying in for the home opener, and also a December game, and I fully expect this team to still only be 7-9.

[mayotm]

Well this seals it then, we're good.
Just as much as you saying "they are at least a few years away" seals it.

[TacklingDummy]

Why is this team not a SB team?
Ryan Fitzpatrick

[TacklingDummy]

Why is this team not a SB team?
2 words: Ryan Fitzpatrick

[Skooby]

Just as much as you saying "they are at least a few years away" seals it.

Name one team that switched it defense around & had a dominating defense the next season. There's a reason their switching it, it wasn't working well the way it was. I'm not saying that we won't get better, I'm saying that it's going to take time.

Homerism is great & seeing the team succeed is one of my dreams, I just prefer to dream at night.

[better days]

Well, for one, the Bills' national support has been dwindling for the past decade without any real prospects of playoffs, so nobody really wants to see the Bills in the playoffs. It's the smallest market in the NFL (yes, smaller than Green Bay-Milwaukee) and is one step away from being out of its stadium lease, making it a tantalizing candidate to move to NFL-starved LA, and moving the Bills to California after their first playoff appearance in over a decade would look incredibly douchey, so the league would never allow itself to look that bad. The stadium decision, open-air in Buffalo's winter, paralyzes the team's own offense in the winter months, effectively causing a home-field disadvantage.

But the more specific, immediate reason: nothing was done to address the numerous injuries. Instead of the safer option of natural grass, they choose a cheap knockoff turf that has proven to make the injury situation even worse than before, and it was pretty consistently bad before, too. Their big free-agent acquisition, Mario Williams, spent the ends of the last two seasons on injured reserve.

This is the MOST RIDICULOUS post I have read in a long time!

The Bills may not get National games on TV because Buffalo is a small market & the Bills have been losers for the last decade, but I believe support around the Country is as strong today as ever by FANS of the team.

When the Bills start to win games on a regular basis and are playoff contenders on a yearly basis, they will start to see some National games. The Bills will never get the amount of National games BIG market teams like NY, Chicago, Dallas or Philly get, but then neither will teams such at the Titans, Seahawks, Bengals ETC.

If you believe National support has dwindled in the last decade, show us PROOF instead of making some ridiculous stupid claim with nothing to back it up.

With a team poised to make the playoffs & only one National game on a Thursday night, on NFL Network, I would bet MANY Bills fans around the Country will be buying the Sunday ticket this year.

BOTH teams play on the same field in the same conditions, so to say the Bills are at a disadvantage by playing in an open air Stadium in Buffalo with turf is just STUPID. To think any other team would build itself to take advantage of the Stadium conditions in Buffalo is INCREDIBLY STUPID.

I think the MANY injuries the Bills suffered last year were do to BAD LUCK combined with a poor trainer, not the turf.

If you believe the turf was the cause of the injuries, I want to see proof of that fact, just as I want to see proof National support has dwindled in the last decade & that the Bills are at a disadvantage by playing in an open air stadium in Buffalo.

[better days]

Name one team that switched it defense around & had a dominating defense the next season. There's a reason their switching it, it wasn't working well the way it was. I'm not saying that we won't get better, I'm saying that it's going to take time.

Homerism is great & seeing the team succeed is one of my dreams, I just prefer to dream at night.

The Houston Texans.

[better days]

They didn't change their scheme but they did have a drastic improvement from 2010, Peyton Manning going down / Colts bending over in their division probably didn't hurt either.

Yeah they did change their scheme. They went from a 4-3 with Mario Williams playing DE to 3-4 under Wade Phillips with Mario playing OLB.

[Skooby]

Yeah they did change their scheme. They went from a 4-3 with Mario Williams playing DE to 3-4 under Wade Phillips with Mario playing OLB.

My bad, I forgot about that they had did that. I guess we just need the best QB in our division to go down now because we already have a easy schedule, then we can be just like them.

[better days]

My bad, I forgot about that they had did that. I guess we just need the best QB in our division to go down now because we already have a easy schedule, then we can be just like them.

Well, lets hope Mario puts Brady DOWN.

[Skooby]

Well, lets hope Mario puts Brady DOWN.

LOL, agreed.

[better days]

LOL, agreed.

I really believe the Bills have the Pats* worried about playing them this year. Chan has already proven he & the Bills can beat Bill & the Pats*

Brady will be tossing & turning in bed Saturday night with nightmares about facing the Bills the next day. LOL.

[PTI]

I really believe the Bills have the Pats* worried about playing them this year. Chan has already proven he & the Bills can beat Bill & the Pats*

Brady will be tossing & turning in bed Saturday night with nightmares about facing the Bills the next day. LOL.

You guys are so freaking dumb when it comes to beating the Pats. They do not have the Pats scared at all. You do realize the Browns actually crushed the Pats the year before, right? Proven they can beat the Pats? Anyone can beat anyone, but the fact still remains, the Bills have only beat the Patriots only 2 times in 11 years, and the only reason was that Brady threw 4 interceptions in both those games.They Patriots are not that worried about Buffalo, just who they will be hosting in the AFC Championship again.

[YardRat]

Name one team that switched it defense around & had a dominating defense the next season.
Houston made a pretty impressive turn around with Phillips installation of the 34 last season. From 30th overall in yards allowed to 2nd, 29th in points allowed to 4th.

You can play with the sorting function if you want greater detail...

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=2&season=2011&role=OPP&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&qualified=true

[YardRat]

Ooops. Sorry b-days, missed your initial response.

[PTI]

Houston made a pretty impressive turn around with Phillips installation of the 34 last season. From 30th overall in yards allowed to 2nd, 29th in points allowed to 4th.

You can play with the sorting function if you want greater detail...

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=2&season=2011&role=OPP&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&qualified=true

1st overall in time of possession on offense didn't hurt, and 9th in 3rd down conversions, good offense helps your defense.

[better days]

You guys are so freaking dumb when it comes to beating the Pats. They do not have the Pats scared at all. You do realize the Browns actually crushed the Pats the year before, right? Proven they can beat the Pats? Anyone can beat anyone, but the fact still remains, the Bills have only beat the Patriots only 2 times in 11 years, and the only reason was that Brady threw 4 interceptions in both those games.They Patriots are not that worried about Buffalo, just who they will be hosting in the AFC Championship again.

Well, like I said Brady will be WORRIED about facing the Bills DL this year. It is a well known fact Brady HATES to be touched by opposing defenses & this Bills D will have him on the ground like he has never experienced except against the Giants.

[PTI]

Well, like I said Brady will be WORRIED about facing the Bills DL this year. It is a well known fact Brady HATES to be touched by opposing defenses & this Bills D will have him on the ground like he has never experienced except against the Giants.

Wow, good point. Opposing QBs hate to be touched by opposing defenses. You have cleared that one up for me.

[mayotm]

Name one team that switched it defense around & had a dominating defense the next season. There's a reason their switching it, it wasn't working well the way it was. I'm not saying that we won't get better, I'm saying that it's going to take time.

Homerism is great & seeing the team succeed is one of my dreams, I just prefer to dream at night.
It has nothing to do with being a homer. I don't think the Super Bowl is a realistic goal this season. I think the playoffs are. Just my opinion. It 's no better and no worse than other's opinions. I simply don't throw around my opinions as fact like some people.

[YardRat]

1st overall in time of possession on offense didn't hurt, and 9th in 3rd down conversions, good offense helps your defense.

Being 5th in fewest first downs allowed, and 7th in turnover differential doesn't either. A good defense will get the offense more opportunities.

[better days]

1st overall in time of possession on offense didn't hurt, and 9th in 3rd down conversions, good offense helps your defense.

It is true good offense helps the defense. It is just as true that good defense helps the offense.

[better days]

Wow, good point. Opposing QBs hate to be touched by opposing defenses. You have cleared that one up for me.

While all QBs don't like to get sacked, Brady is a WUSS. He hates getting a hand laid on him & it affects his play.

[Skooby]

It has nothing to do with being a homer. I don't think the Super Bowl is a realistic goal this season. I think the playoffs are. Just my opinion. It 's no better and no worse than other's opinions. I simply don't throw around my opinions as fact like some people.

Playoffs yes, they're a possibility. The title of this thread posed the question of why we're not a SB team, I feel it's the installation of a new defensive scheme that's our biggest problem (even with all the talent we're fielding).

[BertSquirtgum]

Name one team that switched it defense around & had a dominating defense the next season. There's a reason their switching it, it wasn't working well the way it was. I'm not saying that we won't get better, I'm saying that it's going to take time.

Homerism is great & seeing the team succeed is one of my dreams, I just prefer to dream at night.

Not much of a switch.

[X-Era]

Playoffs yes, they're a possibility. The title of this thread posed the question of why we're not a SB team, I feel it's the installation of a new defensive scheme that's our biggest problem (even with all the talent we're fielding).That's correct.

The playoffs is a nice short term goal but it isn't THE goal.

[Skooby]

That's correct.

The playoffs is a nice short term goal but it isn't THE goal.

Championships are always the goal, having a team that holds any type of real water versus just a part season dream is what it'll take.