BBD: Is Ryan Fitzpatrick The Final Answer?

[DraftBoy]

http://www.buffalobillsdraft.com/2012/07/is-ryan-fitzpatrick-the-final-answer/


In 2012 the Buffalo Bills and their fan base are expecting big things. The Bills spent big this offseason bringing in star talent like Mario Williams and Mark Anderson. They drafted talent adding CB Stephen Gilmore and OT Cordy Glenn. There are plenty of reasons for the Bills and their fan base to be excited for the coming 2012 season. In the end though there is still one looming factor that nobody can figure out and that’s QB Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Love him or hate him (PTI) this is the guy our entire season is riding on without question. We will only go as far Fitzpatrick can take us for better or worse.

[Night Train]

The Bills have an out after this season with the Fitz contract.

Lots of changes outside of the QB position the last couple of years, player & scheme wise. I suppose Fitz was seen as the steady QB until someone more athletically gifted was identified. In the meantime, most other units were upgraded.

Very likely one of our first 2 picks next April is a QB, regardless of what Fitz does this year. I don't expect much and never did. If he can hit the swing and slant passes, he's doing his job with his limited athletic ability. Once again, the Bills chose this path while working on multiple other upgrades. Agree or disagree with it and both sides have valid points.

[justasportsfan]

Ryan Fitzpatrick is the unquestioned leader of this team, our star WR loves him, the fan base loves him, and the coaching staff loves him but being lovable doesn’t win you football games

WE DO? I don't think so.

[PTI]

I do not hate Fitz, I just think he is not a very good player and has proven he is not a very good player both statistically and his winning percentage and severe lack of 4th comebacks and last drive for wins compared to his counterparts. Best way for the Bills to be competitive is to have Fitz play well, and I am rooting for him, not taking a QB either of the last two seasons has certainly put all the eggs in one basket. The Bills need him, for sure.

[justasportsfan]

To see whether we think Fitzgerald is the final answer or not, check out our latest mock draft!
:ill:

[djjimkelly]

he's not THE ANSWER but he's the answer for now.

i'm positive that buddy and chan are always looking for a young stud but if one is not there fitz is the answer till .........

[Bill Cody]

The Bills have an out after this season with the Fitz contract.



It's nice to have an out but there is no heir apparent.:drool:

[SABURZFAN]

the final answer to what? the long list of dreadful QBs since Kelly? i hope so. i'd like to see a young QB come into Orchard Park and kick ass REAL soon.

[X-Era]

Yes and No.

No, I don't think he will ever be Aaron Rodgers. Yes, I think it's possible for him to improve his footwork and mechanics and ultimately his accuracy to be effective enough to not lose us games... Which is to say I think it's possible for him to be a SB winning QB for the Bills if the rest of the team plays at an adequate level.

I just don't see Fitz carrying a team on his back like Manning. But how many Mannings are there anyways?

If I had it my way, we would have a franchise all-pro QB. But, I feel we can go to and even win a SB with Fitz at the helm provided we have an adequate defense and offense to be in any game against any team.

[YardRat]

He doesn't have to be the final answer, just a productive member of the equation.

[DraftBoy]

He doesn't have to be the final answer, just a productive member of the equation.

Was he productive last season or was he counter productive as a part of that equation?

And no giving half answers of well in the first half he was, and the second half he wasn't.

[YardRat]

Was he productive last season or was he counter productive as a part of that equation?

And no giving half answers of well in the first half he was, and the second half he wasn't.

Sorry, but you're not allowed to rig the results in an attempt to get an answer you find more desirable.

Like it or not, he was productive before his and other teammates injuries began taking their toll. He was less productive, and if you wish at times counter-productive, after.

[X-Era]

Again, to me, what would be ideal is to have a guy that can carry the team when things that can keep the team from winning crop up... like injuries.

But, I can't blame him for not being able to carry the team. I can only blame him if he doesn't do his job at an adequate level. In the second half, and especially in games like the final NE game, he didn't do his job.

So, is he the answer? If the question is whether we have an adequate starting QB who won't prevent us from a SB appearance, I'd say maybe and lean towards yes. But that's not the same as saying he's the QB that will lead us to the SB.

I think he can do his job at an adequate level most of the time. But, that alone is not enough to get us to the SB. And the rest of the team will need to be a major part of the equation to get there.

[DraftBoy]

Sorry, but you're not allowed to rig the results in an attempt to get an answer you find more desirable.

Like it or not, he was productive before his and other teammates injuries began taking their toll. He was less productive, and if you wish at times counter-productive, after.

Oh that's complete horse**** and you know it. If I wanted an opinion that was decided based on partial seasons I'd go ask Wys about his arithmetic. He's a NFL QB for christ sake either he was part of the solution or part of the problem.

[YardRat]

Oh that's complete horse**** and you know it. If I wanted an opinion that was decided based on partial seasons I'd go ask Wys about his arithmetic. He's a NFL QB for christ sake either he was part of the solution or part of the problem.

No, it isn't horse****. Dismissing contributing factors to attempt to steer an answer to a conclusion is manipulative and dishonest. Do you really think that cracked ribs, injuries to the starting LT and center, the loss of Jackson and the turnstile at WR didn't affect his performance?

[DraftBoy]

No, it isn't horse****. Dismissing contributing factors to attempt to steer an answer to a conclusion is manipulative and dishonest. Do you really think that cracked ribs, injuries to the starting LT and center, the loss of Jackson and the turnstile at WR didn't affect his performance?

You're operating under the assumption that I, or to a larger extent other people, care about your conclusion in an effort to reach some sort of point or thesis. There is no reason to attempt to manipulate a dishonest conclusion since I'm not making a point one way or another but simply asking a question that you do a full evaluation and not a partial one because the partial is a cop out.

Sure I do, as I think the schemative design by Gailey helped a lot as well. I don't evaluate on a exclusionary basis, you don't get points for being in the right system, or being hurt, or having injuries in front of you. This is football those things happen, its your job as the QB to mitigate them based on your abilities. Either has can do that or he can't. So again I ask, what do you think?

[DraftBoy]

In fairness though you are the only person of around 5,000 to mention the OL injuries, which I say is to your credit.

[stuckincincy]

In fairness though you are the only person of around 5,000 to mention the OL injuries, which I say is to your credit.

Dunno - Perhaps many folks factored that in. I'm not fit to comment on Fitz' BUF performance - the last time I saw him play (other than highlight reels), he was filling in for Palmer under similar circumstances...ravaged OL.

[EDS]

I see Fitz as having a similar career to Jay Fiedler. Absolutely essential to find a true franchise QB in today's NFL if you want to win a championship.

I can see Fitz getting hot for a couple of weeks though, so if the timing works out (i.e., in the playoffs) maybe the Bills can get something done.

[PTI]

I see Fitz as having a similar career to Jay Fiedler. Absolutely essential to find a true franchise QB in today's NFL if you want to win a championship.

I can see Fitz getting hot for a couple of weeks though, so if the timing works out (i.e., in the playoffs) maybe the Bills can get something done.

I am not sure he was even ever as good as Fiedler. 2001 he finished 13th in QB rating, and in 2002 he was 15th. Fitzpatrick has only been as high as 22nd. Was even 37-23 as a starter and deemed not good enough, not sure why the Bills have not cut ties with Fitzpatrick who has proven he is good at losing.

[justasportsfan]

I am not sure he was even ever as good as Fiedler. 2001 he finished 13th in QB rating, and in 2002 he was 15th. Fitzpatrick has only been as high as 22nd. Was even 37-23 as a starter and deemed not good enough, not sure why the Bills have not cut ties with Fitzpatrick who has proven he is good at losing.

typical response from the hater who only post selective stats to make his opinion look right.

You forgot to mention that Miami had a defense ranked 6th(2000) 5th(2001) 3(2002) and 5th(2003) . Their D is mostly responsible for Fiedlers W/L record. Fitz never had that kind of defense. While I'm NOT saying Fitz is anything special, the QB does not win and lose games all by himself. It's stupid to even imply it when you bring the W/L record of a qb.

[PTI]

typical response from the hater who only post selective stats to make his opinion look right.

You forgot to mention that Miami had a defense ranked 6th(2000) 5th(2001) 3(2002) and 5th(2003) . Their D is mostly responsible for Fiedlers W/L record. Fitz never had that kind of defense. While I'm NOT saying Fitz is anything special, the QB does not win and lose games all by himself. It's stupid to even imply it when you bring the W/L record of a qb.

Selective stats?? Did the defense also play offense? That still did not change Fiedler's stats on offense. He had Chambers and Oronde Gadsden too, ugly!

[justasportsfan]

Selective stats?? Did the defense also play offense? That still did not change Fiedler's stats on offense. He had Chambers and Oronde Gadsden too, ugly!

the D plays a huge part in W/L especially when they can stop an offense and give the ball back to their own offense. Either you obviously decided to leave that part out because of your hate or you don't know anything about football.

Besides QB rating doesn't mean squat. Matt Moore had a better qb rating than Cam Newton and Flacco. Are you telling us he's better than the other 2?

The ravens had 12 wins and miami 6.

Romo was ranked 4th amongst qb's in qb rating. Cowboys 8-8 W/L. He was ranked higher than guys like Ben , Flacco, Alex Smith, etc.etc. Compare the team W/L record.


So what does that tell you about qb ratings in relation to winning?

[PTI]

the D plays a huge part in W/L especially when they can stop an offense and give the ball back to their own offense. Either you obviously decided to leave that part out because of your hate or you don't know anything about football.


You completely missed the point.

The point was they were winning games, he even ranked 13th and 15th in QB rating, and they knew he was not good enough to get over the hump with him.

[justasportsfan]

You completely missed the point.

The point was they were winning games, he even ranked 13th and 15th in QB rating, and they knew he was not good enough to get over the hump with him.

I didn't miss your point. Your point was that Fitz sucks in comparison to Fiedler using qb rating and W/L record. Too bad there's more to it than your selective stats.

BTW I edited my last post.

[justasportsfan]

I also doubt Fiedler would have had better nos. than Fitz if he had a D like ours the last few years. The best he's ever thrown for was 3,300 yds 20 TD's and 19INT with a 5th ranked D.

[PTI]

I also doubt Fiedler would have had better nos. than Fitz if he had a D like ours the last few years. The best he's ever thrown for was 3,300 yds 20 TD's and 19INT with a 5th ranked D.

Dude, you really are not good at this. You compare players to the players who are their contemporaries, in the years Fiedler played he was as high as 13th in efficiency and was top 15 twice.

[justasportsfan]

Dude, you really are not good at this. You compare players to the players who are their contemporaries, in the years Fiedler played he was as high as 13th in efficiency and was top 15 twice.

I understand what you're saying and I'm telling you qb rating means squat . The most Fiedler attempted to throw in one season is 450. Fitz threw for 569 last year. Of course he's going to make more mistakes if you take into account the injuries to his players and lack of an OTA which Fiedler never had to go through.



At this point in time, there are legitimate reasons to give Fitz the benefit of the doubt. You cannot blame him for the teams records because there were other factors that led to our failure and MOST of it was on the defensive side of the ball. If he fails this year I'm with you.

[EDS]

I also doubt Fiedler would have had better nos. than Fitz if he had a D like ours the last few years. The best he's ever thrown for was 3,300 yds 20 TD's and 19INT with a 5th ranked D.

To be fair, that 3,300 yards was accomplished in over 100 fewer pass attempts. Obviously since 2001 there has been an overall league wide shift towards greater emphasis on the passing game. In addition, the Dolphins did not have a wealth of pass receiving weapons, with only Chris Chambers being a real weapon.

[justasportsfan]

To be fair, that 3,300 yards was accomplished in over 100 fewer pass attempts. Obviously since 2001 there has been an overall league wide shift towards greater emphasis on the passing game. In addition, the Dolphins did not have a wealth of pass receiving weapons, with only Chris Chambers being a real weapon.

I do agree but if he had to make 100 attempts more I doubt his rating stays the same. He didn't have to play like Fitz had to because he had a top 10 defense . Their D carried that team back then.

I doubt Fiedler has the same nos. if he was our qb the last few years.

[stuckincincy]

I see Fitz as having a similar career to Jay Fiedler. Absolutely essential to find a true franchise QB in today's NFL if you want to win a championship.

I can see Fitz getting hot for a couple of weeks though, so if the timing works out (i.e., in the playoffs) maybe the Bills can get something done.

Not a bad thought. Difler, Feeley, Gannon, Brad Johnson, and so on. It's nice to have a QB with the wowwee talent and numbers, but having a good "field general" can get ya into the money games. I don't see anyone out there - available - that will serve BUF better than Fitz.

Everybody and their brother predicts that BUF looks to have a better than decent front 4 rush. If so, that ripples across both sides of the ball for the Bills. That will aid Fitz.

I've been living in an NFL no man's land for years (hence the moniker...STUCKincincy), but OH is a hotbed of high school and college football, and there are tons of astute fans here. Who clearly see that BUF has made good progress on the lines.

[ddaryl]

Oh that's complete horse**** and you know it. If I wanted an opinion that was decided based on partial seasons I'd go ask Wys about his arithmetic. He's a NFL QB for christ sake either he was part of the solution or part of the problem.

Now this is horse****... he is part of the short term solution... long term we can do better, but who would you replace him with short term... We had no chance at a stud QB the last few years of the draft. We have even less of a chance of bringing in a FA QB that would be any better. So I am glad we have Fitz

objectivity says a young team, mounting injuries, depth issues, a weak pass rush all provided plenty of arithmetic worthy of being infused to the overall factoring..



and PTI looks like you keep getting banned over at the main Bills forums.. Nice try mykidsdad, or whomever new name you can come with to play your ridiculous games.. Are you this devoid of a meaningful life that you bounce from forum to forum pushing your anti Fitz agenda... off the charts sad

[PTI]

Now this is horse****... he is part of the short term solution... long term we can do better, but who would you replace him with short term... We had no chance at a stud QB the last few years of the draft. We have even less of a chance of bringing in a FA QB that would be any better. So I am glad we have Fitz

objectivity says a young team, mounting injuries, depth issues, a weak pass rush all provided plenty of arithmetic worthy of being infused to the overall factoring..



and PTI looks like you keep getting banned over at the main Bills forums.. Nice try mykidsdad, or whomever new name you can come with to play your ridiculous games.. Are you this devoid of a meaningful life that you bounce from forum to forum pushing your anti Fitz agenda... off the charts sad

Bills had chances to get QBs the last 2 seasons, it is a farce to say they did not have a chance. They passed on Andy Dalton. They passed on a ton of QBs that year, and the Bills would be better right now if they took one of those guys and just played him. Bills could have gotten into the RG 3 sweepstakes.

I was on the Bills message boards since 2002, that was just plain ridiculous I was ousted there to begin with, just sad people like yourself who are just that smart and whine because they cannot really intelligently defend their opinion...........so they complain.

[SquishDaFish]

Why argue with the Troll Trent? Just ignore him hopefully he will go away

[Beebe's Kid]

I like think he is like the answer until we like get a really good young quarterback who is like young and really good, but then like gets a lot better.

I mean I'd rather just sign a guy like Kerry Collins...a guy who never was that good, but his better years are behind him, and he'll make a bunch of money just because he is a veteran. I think that is a logical decision.

I mean if that doesn't work, why don't we just draft the best foot works, mechanics, and all of the other stuff this next year? I mean...this is easy. There are so many awesome QBs to be had...you just need to get one. Get her done, Buddy...

I just wonder if people approach these kinds of questions seriously, and how seriously they take the bull**** they post.

[DraftBoy]

Now this is horse****... he is part of the short term solution... long term we can do better, but who would you replace him with short term... We had no chance at a stud QB the last few years of the draft. We have even less of a chance of bringing in a FA QB that would be any better. So I am glad we have Fitz

objectivity says a young team, mounting injuries, depth issues, a weak pass rush all provided plenty of arithmetic worthy of being infused to the overall factoring..



and PTI looks like you keep getting banned over at the main Bills forums.. Nice try mykidsdad, or whomever new name you can come with to play your ridiculous games.. Are you this devoid of a meaningful life that you bounce from forum to forum pushing your anti Fitz agenda... off the charts sad

Not what I said. I didn't say replace him short term, hell I didnt even say replace him long term. I asked if he's the answer or not. There is no hidden agenda, there is no angle Im trying to take. Do I have my own opinion? Yes of course but what I think has little to do with the article.


I will say this every year you can find reason (excuses) to say this was the reason (refs, injuries, other team cheating, etc.) to say this is what happened and why. At some point you have to take a realistic look at your own roster and determine is player A the guy we want to ride with.

I dont believe in short term solutions, if the guy currently in the position is not a long term fit, its time to find a change and get somebody in there. Constantly evolving always looking to get better, etc.

Easy? Hell no, but the above is the intent (poorly as it may have come across) of the article. I dont care if people think Fitz is the short term answer or not, there is nothing to do short term. Im evaluating for 2013, not 2012. That season is going to be what it is, little can be done about it now.

[YardRat]

You're operating under the assumption that I, or to a larger extent other people, care about your conclusion in an effort to reach some sort of point or thesis. There is no reason to attempt to manipulate a dishonest conclusion since I'm not making a point one way or another but simply asking a question that you do a full evaluation and not a partial one because the partial is a cop out.

Sure I do, as I think the schemative design by Gailey helped a lot as well. I don't evaluate on a exclusionary basis, you don't get points for being in the right system, or being hurt, or having injuries in front of you. This is football those things happen, its your job as the QB to mitigate them based on your abilities. Either has can do that or he can't. So again I ask, what do you think?

Well, I just see it differently, I guess. IMO, a FULL evaluation takes into account at the very least his own injury and to a certain extent injuries of others around him while a PARTIAL evaluation ignores those facts. Also, it isn't ONLY the QB's responsibility to mitigate the circumstances, but the other players around him ESPECIALLY those in a back-up role that should be expected to produce when called upon.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I just see it differently, I guess. IMO, a FULL evaluation takes into account at the very least his own injury and to a certain extent injuries of others around him while a PARTIAL evaluation ignores those facts. Also, it isn't ONLY the QB's responsibility to mitigate the circumstances, but the other players around him ESPECIALLY those in a back-up role that should be expected to produce when called upon.

I did specifically mention that injury did I not? I never asked you exclude that, Im not quite sure where you thought I asked for that. I never said it was, its something every player has to deal with but this thread is specifically about one player and one position so the effect on others has no real relevancy.

[X-Era]

Not what I said. I didn't say replace him short term, hell I didnt even say replace him long term. I asked if he's the answer or not. There is no hidden agenda, there is no angle Im trying to take. Do I have my own opinion? Yes of course but what I think has little to do with the article.


I will say this every year you can find reason (excuses) to say this was the reason (refs, injuries, other team cheating, etc.) to say this is what happened and why. At some point you have to take a realistic look at your own roster and determine is player A the guy we want to ride with.

I dont believe in short term solutions, if the guy currently in the position is not a long term fit, its time to find a change and get somebody in there. Constantly evolving always looking to get better, etc.

Easy? Hell no, but the above is the intent (poorly as it may have come across) of the article. I dont care if people think Fitz is the short term answer or not, there is nothing to do short term. Im evaluating for 2013, not 2012. That season is going to be what it is, little can be done about it now.

So, I agree with both you and Yardie.

I'd like a QB who can win despite the excuses and reasons not to. Fitz played poorly in the second half. I'm not a huge fan of calling a guy the answer when there are common circumstances where he hasn't shown he can win. Injuries and hot and cold OL play are common in the NFL. But, I also agree with Yardie in that Fitz can be the answer provided the rest of the team and our circumstances don't rely on him to carry the team.

We've gone back on forth on the QB issue for years and it always comes down to polar ideologies. Some feel you don't need a Manning or Brady but rather a Dilfer and an emphasis on building a great defense and/or offense. If you're on that fan club an I didn't quite capture it right, speak up. The other side wants a guy that can carry the team despite the OL, Offense, and/or defense to a SB. Yes, that's likely a hall-of-famer. I'm a fan of getting the best possible player at QB. I'd like a Manning or the next Kelly and will continue to hope for that until it happens. That's just me. But, I do think that this team, coach, and situation... with Fitz could be good enough for a playoff. I'll admit that. And a Dilfer led Ravens team won the SB; that happened. So, I can't discard Fitz as totally not being the answer if everything else falls into place. But, I'd like to find the answer at QB and then tilt the odds in our favor where we don;t have to rely so much on other components. Again, just me.

Is Fitz my ultimate answer for me? No. Is he good enough on this team in this situation? I think he might be.

[X-Era]

I did specifically mention that injury did I not? I never asked you exclude that, Im not quite sure where you thought I asked for that. I never said it was, its something every player has to deal with but this thread is specifically about one player and one position so the effect on others has no real relevancy.In the spirit of good discussion I have to respond here. No offense intended. I like the topic... honestly.

But, come on. You can't ask a weighted question like that and expect to not get a weighted answer. That's like asking if a piston ring can go 200 mph. It depends on what engine it's in and on what car... and on what track... and on whether it's raining... and with what driver...

We can't ignore the rest of the team, the coach, the division, the conference, the offensive and defensive trends, and the rest of the league.

I just don't think we can say the situation in which the QB is in has no relevancy. To some, Fitz can be the answer based on the status of other factors (the Dilfer ideology). To me (and I'm assuming others) he isn't the answer because he isn't good enough to get wins when common and valid reasons could prevent him from doing so...

To me the answer at QB is a guy who will drag this team to the playoffs despite injuries, etc...

[DraftBoy]

In the spirit of good discussion I have to respond here. No offense intended. I like the topic... honestly.

But, come on. You can't ask a weighted question like that and expect to not get a weighted answer. That's like asking if a piston ring can go 200 mph. It depends on what engine it's in and on what car... and on what track... and on whether it's raining... and with what driver...

We can't ignore the rest of the team, the coach, the division, the conference, the offensive and defensive trends, and the rest of the league.

I just don't think we can say the situation in which the QB is in has no relevancy. To some, Fitz can be the answer based on the status of other factors (the Dilfer ideology). To me (and I'm assuming others) he isn't the answer because he isn't good enough to get wins when common and valid reasons could prevent him from doing so...

To me the answer at QB is a guy who will drag this team to the playoffs despite injuries, etc...

What's the weight of the question? Asking if our current starting QB is a franchise QB or not? You have to be able to evaluate each position in a vacumm, how else do you expect to get even close to accurate results?

Its so easy to find an excuse to say well player X didn't play well but we had reason X, Y, and Z to blame for it more than just Player X not being as good as I want him to be.

Or on the other hand its just as easy to say Player Z played so well considering he had to overcome A, B, and C. Im saying eliminate that, evaluate based on what you saw from Fitz.

The WR drops doubled from 9 over our first seven games to 18 over our last nine, did the WR's become worse or was Fitz off target more? This is about the QB and the QB alone, take each reason/excuse/what have you, and apply it but apply it as an evaluation of the QB, not as an excuse for him over coming or failing to over come something.

To close you're answer at QB is not mine, to me a QB is the guy who will win you the Super Bowl, the playoffs are simply not good enough. If we don't have that (whether its Fitz, Young, Thigpen...ok even I laughed at that) then its time to find somebody who can through FA or the draft.

[better days]

To me a QB is the guy who will win you the Super Bowl, the playoffs are simply not good enough. If we don't have that (whether its Fitz, Young, Thigpen...ok even I laughed at that) then its time to find somebody who can through FA or the draft.

To find a Super Bowl winning QB is much easier said than done. At this point I would be happy if Fitz or VY got the Bills into the playoffs. When a team makes the playoffs, anything can happen

[justasportsfan]

It's hard to answer with a simple yes or no. A lot of things have to come into place.A lot of "IF's"have to happen.

Can he be a Dilfer like qb ? Yes. Can you win a sb with a Dilfer like qb? Yes , if you have their D and a running game like they did.

The chances of a team being a CONSISTENT sb competitor with a Dilfer-like qb are slim however . Only 2 teams without an elite qb have won a sb since 2000 and it sould be argued that Brad Johnson had an elite like performance the year the bucs won the sb.

[DraftBoy]

It's hard to answer with a simple yes or no. A lot of things have to come into place.A lot of "IF's"have to happen.

Can he be a Dilfer like qb ? Yes. Can you win a sb with a Dilfer like qb? Yes , if you have their D and a running game like they did.

The chances of a team being a CONSISTENT sb competitor with a Dilfer-like qb are slim however . Only 2 teams without an elite qb have won a sb since 2000 and it sould be argued that Brad Johnson had an elite like performance the year the bucs won the sb.

I dont get the point of saying well can he or could he be like another player on another team. We aren't another team we are who we are. Can Ryan Fitzpatrick win us a Super Bowl? I think clouding it with saying well if we had the Ravens defense, running game, and conservative vertical play calling then maybe does anything to help.

At this point Id drop the consistent part just to win one title, after that Ill worry more about consistency.

[justasportsfan]

I dont get the point of saying well can he or could he be like another player on another team. We aren't another team we are who we are. Can Ryan Fitzpatrick win us a Super Bowl? I think clouding it with saying well if we had the Ravens defense, running game, and conservative vertical play calling then maybe does anything to help.

At this point Id drop the consistent part just to win one title, after that Ill worry more about consistency.

the simple answer then would be yes we can win a sb but it would most likely be because of the D. Fitz is just not a qb that can carry the team on his shoulders.

[DraftBoy]

the simple answer then would be yes we can win a sb but it would most likely be because of the D. Fitz is just not a qb that can carry the team on his shoulders.

So your answer is yes then, Fitz is capable of being a SB winning QB.

Fair enough.

[PTI]

All teams can score at this point. Fitz will not make enough plays, it is pretty evident by the Bills being at the top in turnovers on offense, being one the worst teams in going 3 and out, and being one of the worst in converting 3rd downs.

Do people really think just because a defense is better that they won't get tired still from continually being thrown back on to the field?

[X-Era]

So your answer is yes then, Fitz is capable of being a SB winning QB.

Fair enough.I'd agree with that statement. He has an adequate level of talent to be able to do his job effectively enough to win. The opposite statement may be more telling... On a SB caliber team, Fitz would not keep them from winning a SB. On a non-SB caliber team, Fitz would likely not be able to win the team a SB.

I think if the team does or does not win a SB, Fitz will not be the main reason either way. He'll do an adeqaute job and won't be the reason we win or lose.

For me, that's not all I'm looking for. I'd like a guy who can win us a SB despite other reasons... Manning and Brady come to mind.

[X-Era]

What's the weight of the question? Asking if our current starting QB is a franchise QB or not? You have to be able to evaluate each position in a vacumm, how else do you expect to get even close to accurate results?

Its so easy to find an excuse to say well player X didn't play well but we had reason X, Y, and Z to blame for it more than just Player X not being as good as I want him to be.

Or on the other hand its just as easy to say Player Z played so well considering he had to overcome A, B, and C. Im saying eliminate that, evaluate based on what you saw from Fitz.

The WR drops doubled from 9 over our first seven games to 18 over our last nine, did the WR's become worse or was Fitz off target more? This is about the QB and the QB alone, take each reason/excuse/what have you, and apply it but apply it as an evaluation of the QB, not as an excuse for him over coming or failing to over come something.

To close you're answer at QB is not mine, to me a QB is the guy who will win you the Super Bowl, the playoffs are simply not good enough. If we don't have that (whether its Fitz, Young, Thigpen...ok even I laughed at that) then its time to find somebody who can through FA or the draft.You didn't ask if he's a franchise QB you asked if he's the final answer... Which is weighted because then what are you asking? The final answer to what question? If its whether he's a franchise QB, that answer may be different than whether he can win a SB under the right conditions.

I'll be more direct. On this team, with this talent level, this defense, this coaching, this offense, I think were very close to being good enough for Fitz to be able to win a SB as the QB. So in this situation I think he could be our QB when we win the SB.

[ddaryl]

Not what I said. I didn't say replace him short term, hell I didnt even say replace him long term. I asked if he's the answer or not. There is no hidden agenda, there is no angle Im trying to take. Do I have my own opinion? Yes of course but what I think has little to do with the article.


I will say this every year you can find reason (excuses) to say this was the reason (refs, injuries, other team cheating, etc.) to say this is what happened and why. At some point you have to take a realistic look at your own roster and determine is player A the guy we want to ride with.

I dont believe in short term solutions, if the guy currently in the position is not a long term fit, its time to find a change and get somebody in there. Constantly evolving always looking to get better, etc.

Easy? Hell no, but the above is the intent (poorly as it may have come across) of the article. I don't care if people think Fitz is the short term answer or not, there is nothing to do short term. Im evaluating for 2013, not 2012. That season is going to be what it is, little can be done about it now.


For now he is the answer short term, and if a better option becomes available we will pursue it.

There is no yes or no answer to this situation.. If Fitz is the longer term answer he will show considerable improvement this year and maybe even win a game or 2 with his play. it will mean we will not pursue a replacement as vigorously, but that will only be determined at the end of this season.

If he improves marginally which is what I expect then he is a decent short term answer and we will be searching a little harder for that long term option. More then likely that long term option might have to play behind Fitz for a year or 2, so it remains a good thing we have Fitz for the time being regardless IMO. there were no options for the Bills over Fitzpatrick available to the Bills in the draft or FA.... So hating on Fitz or constantly ragging on him is a waste of precious message board space IMO

the wildcard is Vince Young. If he improves in camp shows some consistency in pre-season, and makes the most of any opportunity he gets, he could step up and truly compete or over take the #1 spot, but that requires a lot of questions ot be answered

Either way this season is about all these questions, but again a young rookie QB will need time most likely unless we move up to the #1 or #2 spot and take a stud college QB who Buddy and Chan feel they can insert immediately.. However I still think Fitz makes a great mentor and a rookie should be brought along slowly.

I seriously doubt there will ever be a FA QB out there that is a considerable upgrade over Fitz and those that are better and due to become FA will be franchised



So your answer is yes then, Fitz is capable of being a SB winning QB.

Fair enough.


On his own NO.. With a solid team around him yes Fitz can be a Dilfer or Williams or Rypien....

[justasportsfan]

So your answer is yes then, Fitz is capable of being a SB winning QB.

Fair enough.


If that was what you were asking with the thread title.

[ddaryl]

All teams can score at this point. Fitz will not make enough plays, it is pretty evident by the Bills being at the top in turnovers on offense, being one the worst teams in going 3 and out, and being one of the worst in converting 3rd downs.

Do people really think just because a defense is better that they won't get tired still from continually being thrown back on to the field?




We had a weak ass D / pass rush in 2011, and our O sputtered.. Yet the O still had more then 30 minutes of ball control a game average. The D was under 30 minutes. The O was on the field more the D

you should research everything before you post opinions..

If our pass rush improives an dour D imporves that just means th eO wil be on the filed even more in 2012 and the D even less. This is math 101

[PTI]

We had a weak ass D / pass rush in 2011, and our O sputtered.. Yet the O still had more then 30 minutes of ball control a game average. The D was under 30 minutes. The O was on the field more the D

you should research everything before you post opinions..

If our pass rush improives an dour D imporves that just means th eO wil be on the filed even more in 2012 and the D even less. This is math 101


You really didn't watch the games, did you? You mean like the offensive having more than 30 minutes in time of possession in the final loss to New England even though he threw 4 INTs? Hilarious. Bills had so many games where they had 8 minute drives while losing several touchdowns. You really are clueless. Time of possession means nothing if you have tons of turnovers, tons of 3 and outs, and one of the worst 3rd down conversion percentages.

[justasportsfan]

You really didn't watch the games, did you? You mean like the offensive having more than 30 minutes in time of possession in the final loss to New England even though he threw 4 INTs? Hilarious.

selective memory? While Fitz certainly made his fair share of mistakes, the D also couldn't stop the pats from coming back from 21-0. Both the D and O get credit for the lead.

It also wasn't Fitz's fault that his no.1 wr was benched. One of those picks was Spillers fault. The ball bounced off of him. Both the D and the O get credit for the PAts coming back

[EDS]

Personally, I would happily trade Fitz away for any of the following QBs, all of whom I believe are better QBs currently or have the potential to be better:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Payton Manning
4. Eli Manning
5. Drew Brees
6. Ben Rothlisberger
7. Philip Rivers
8. Matt Stafford
9. Matt Ryan
10. Cam Newton
11. Tony Romo
12. Matt Schaub
13. Andrew Luck
14. RG III
15. Andy Dalton
16. Sam Bradford

[DraftBoy]

If that was what you were asking with the thread title.

Is the Super Bowl the final goal?

[ddaryl]

Personally, I would happily trade Fitz away for any of the following QBs, all of whom I believe are better QBs currently or have the potential to be better:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tom Brady
3. Payton Manning
4. Eli Manning
5. Drew Brees
6. Ben Rothlisberger
7. Philip Rivers
8. Matt Stafford
9. Matt Ryan
10. Cam Newton
11. Tony Romo
12. Matt Schaub
13. Andrew Luck
14. RG III
15. Andy Dalton
16. Sam Bradford


that's nice now lets stay in reality

[ddaryl]

You really didn't watch the games, did you? You mean like the offensive having more than 30 minutes in time of possession in the final loss to New England even though he threw 4 INTs? Hilarious. Bills had so many games where they had 8 minute drives while losing several touchdowns. You really are clueless. Time of possession means nothing if you have tons of turnovers, tons of 3 and outs, and one of the worst 3rd down conversion percentages.



in the end the O was on the field more then the D

and yes we obvioulsy had craptasatic games as well... but that was not all about Fitz

and the last game of the season who the hell cares..

man you reach for straws like no other

[PTI]

in the end the O was on the field more then the D

and yes we obvioulsy had craptasatic games as well... but that was not all about Fitz

and the last game of the season who the hell cares..

man you reach for straws like no other


You have the most posts for an adult who has not a clue haow to make a rational thought about football. You prove every post hopw little you know. TOP means nothing at all, I mean the Patriots had 28:47 on offense and the Giants had 29:30. Across the board it was easy to see the Bills were one of the least efficient offense in the NFL based on real statistics led by the worst starting QB in the NFL and it is not even close.

[justasportsfan]

Is the Super Bowl the final goal?

can we win a sb with Fitz at qb? Yes if we end up with a top running game and D. Just like Dilfer had.

but if the question is, can he carry the team on his shoulder just like Brady did with a crappy D , NO.

[DraftBoy]

can we win a sb with Fitz at qb? Yes if we end up with a top running game and D. Just like Dilfer had.

but if the question is, can he carry the team on his shoulder just like Brady did with a crappy D , NO.

If that's how you have to qualify it then I dont think the answer is ever yes. You're talking about him needing one of the greatest defenses the NFL has ever seen.

[justasportsfan]

If that's how you have to qualify it then I dont think the answer is ever yes. You're talking about him needing one of the greatest defenses the NFL has ever seen.

not stating it has to be as good as the ravens but I'm simply saying he can do what Dilfer did.

[DraftBoy]

not stating it has to be as good as the ravens but I'm simply saying he can do what Dilfer did.

Isn't that attempting to use an exception to prove a rule? And Dilfer doesn't do what he does without that defense being that good, so you are saying that the Bills D would have to be that good.

[PTI]

Why is Dilfer ever even brought up? He never played another down for the Ravens after the Super Bowl, they knew they had to get better at QB, they threw a bunch of money at the guy who was ranked 8th that season, Elvis Grbac!!! Dilfer only proves one thing, that you need a good QB for long term success in the NFL. Why in the world teams stick with known crap like Fitzpatrick is just crazy, the unknown is most certainly better.

[justasportsfan]

Isn't that attempting to use an exception to prove a rule? And Dilfer doesn't do what he does without that defense being that good, so you are saying that the Bills D would have to be that good.

Your title question is a little tricky. Drew Bledsoe was expected to be the savior/final answer to us winning the sb when he got here. I'm saying that Fitz is not expected to do the same. I'm not expecting him to win games for us like Brady does for the Pats despite having a crappy D last year. Can we win with Fitz simply managing a the O. Yes. BUt only with a dominant D , running game and ST.

[DraftBoy]

Your title question is a little tricky. Drew Bledsoe was expected to be the savior/final answer to us winning the sb when he got here. I'm saying that Fitz is not expected to do the same. I'm not expecting him to win games for us like Brady does for the Pats despite having a crappy D last year. Can we win with Fitz simply managing a the O. Yes. BUt only with a dominant D , running game and ST.

The title is not tricky, its how you're attempting to frame it that is tricky.

The intent is simply, with or without all the pre-qualifiers around him do you look at Fitz and see him as the guy to lead this team? The answer is either yes or no, the idea that well short term he is, is really a no. If you need to say well if we get a killer D and running game then its also a no.

Im not asking him to carry this team, but on a team that has a capable defense (like many expect ours to be) can he get us to the promised land?

[stuckincincy]

The title is not tricky, its how you're attempting to frame it that is tricky.

I'm not asking him to carry this team, but on a team that has a capable defense (like many expect ours to be) can he get us to the promised land?

Since you have chucked out that heels-dug-in stance that you demanded of us...changed from a yes!/no!/Answer Me!/Franchise qb? to the reality that any qb is affected by his surrounding cast, I can now reply - Yes, he can.

[DraftBoy]

Since you have chucked out that heels-dug-in stance that you demanded of us...changed from a yes!/no!/Answer Me!/Franchise qb? to the reality that any qb is affected by his surrounding cast, I can now reply - Yes, he can.

All I did was mantain that the QB, like every position, needs to be evaluated in a vacuum. Nothing else has really changed.

[PTI]

Clearly he is not close to good enough, 2 teams already know this first hand, and the maybe 10 teams that could have tried him would only have wanted him as a backup. I do not know how Jaworski did not put Jason Campbell ahead of Fitzpatrick. He has been a better player, more consistent while in a state of constant flux around him.

[stuckincincy]

All I did was mantain that the QB, like every position, needs to be evaluated in a vacuum. Nothing else has really changed.

Well - I know of no way it is possible to evaluate team sports - especially one such as football - in a vaccum. The snap count progresses, then happens. There's 10 others besides the qb that has to react, any one of which being a tad late, unsure of the play, a split end an inch or so off the LOS, etc. The opposing D rolls their dice based on what they know about their opponent, the time let in the game, what they've had to defend previous, and so on.

Fitz. Last I saw him, he was filling in for yet another B'gals podunk club. I formed an impression. Football is nothing, if not a 4 act play that's been repeated for over a hundred years. The oviod ball guarantees that unpredictability is more or less the order of the day.

It's fun to go over the stats and numbers, fun to predict how the future may go. But what happens over time, is that you get a certain feeling about the flow, the tone of a game. Same with players. I've been watching it for over a half a century. No big deal there, folks who have watched for a year or so can get the sense of what's what, same as me.

In my brief observation of Fitz - I concluded that he had it in him to win in the playoffs and win a SB - hopefully, this new qb coach noticed his problem with the final rear foot plant on a 5+ drop. I saw that last season with CIN's rookie Dalton. Like any qb, the stars have to align, the injuries thru the season have to be managable, Venus gotta be conjunct Saturn, hope you don't have to square off against one of the darling franchises, etc.

I think Fitz can do it. Help is needed - nice starting DL it seems - they better work on depth - CIN rapped them last season because they brought in fresh, decent bodies all game long. Scour a bit for a vet LB - Barnett helped 'em. Why not try it again? PGH grabbed CIN FA Brandon Johnson - good for them; BUF should have entertained him.

I hope the nonsense about keeping 6 wrs among their current crop fades away - cut 2 of them at least, no other club will be champing at the bit for them. Gotta look elsewhere.

:2cents:

[PTI]

That Bengals team went 10-6 the year after without Fitzpatrick.

[stuckincincy]

That Bengals team went 10-6 the year after without Fitzpatrick.
Right you are. Injuries were down that year. Palmer came back, Fitz was traded to BUF.

St. Carson Palmer in game #16 January 3, 2009 against NYJ, came up small with a 4-19-30-0-1, 3 sack performance, as his team managed 72 net yards. Score: 0 -37.

January 9 (at home), St. Palmer was a crisp 18-36-146-1-1 in the playoff game, 3 more sacks, in a 10 - 7 loss.

[PTI]

Right you are. Injuries were down that year. Palmer came back, Fitz was traded to BUF.

St. Carson Palmer in game #16 January 3,2009 against NYJ, came up small with a 4-19-30-0-1, 3 sack performance, as his team managed 72 net yards. Score: 0 -37.

January 9 (at home), St. Palmer was a crisp 18-36-146-1-1, 3 more sacks, in a 10 - 7 loss.


0 -37 final score.


Wouldn't that be good enough, I mean, they did make the playoffs, that is what would seem to make most people here happy? Fitz would be annointed a god if they went 10-6 and then threw 37 INTs in a playoff game.

[X-Era]

True. But if he threw 38...

[stuckincincy]

Wouldn't that be good enough, I mean, they did make the playoffs, that is what would seem to make most people here happy? Fitz would be annointed a god if they went 10-6 and then threw 37 INTs in a playoff game.

Do a little legwork. See the info on C. Palmer's last two abysmal games in '10, his 4 and 12 in '09, the team injuries in Fitz' cameo '08 season and Palmer's followup '09 seasos. I don't blame Palmer for refusing to play - that the CIN ownership is creepy is well known.

Fast forward to the 2011 draft. Should they have tapped Dalton in the 2nd? Well, sure. Jury's out, though - he and wunderkind Newton faded in the 2nd half of the season. It's wait and see now. Heck, the list is long, of the clubs that didn't make a move for Roethlisberger, years ago. Water over the dam.


BUF had a top ten #3, had #10 and #29 in the 4th. moved up to that 6th in the 3rd. The top TE noise (Fleener) was gone - IND, IIRC. Which was a smart pick, what with Luck. Shades of Manning and Clark.

I think I'll be pushing daisies before BUF wises up and gets a TE prospect. In Fitz' short starting career at CIN, about a quarter of his completions were to a moribund TE lineup.

[better days]

Well - I know of no way it is possible to evaluate team sports - especially one such as football - in a vaccum. The snap count progresses, then happens. There's 10 others besides the qb that has to react, any one of which being a tad late, unsure of the play, a split end an inch or so off the LOS, etc. The opposing D rolls their dice based on what they know about their opponent, the time let in the game, what they've had to defend previous, and so on.

Fitz. Last I saw him, he was filling in for yet another B'gals podunk club. I formed an impression. Football is nothing, if not a 4 act play that's been repeated for over a hundred years. The oviod ball guarantees that unpredictability is more or less the order of the day.

It's fun to go over the stats and numbers, fun to predict how the future may go. But what happens over time, is that you get a certain feeling about the flow, the tone of a game. Same with players. I've been watching it for over a half a century. No big deal there, folks who have watched for a year or so can get the sense of what's what, same as me.

In my brief observation of Fitz - I concluded that he had it in him to win in the playoffs and win a SB - hopefully, this new qb coach noticed his problem with the final rear foot plant on a 5+ drop. I saw that last season with CIN's rookie Dalton. Like any qb, the stars have to align, the injuries thru the season have to be managable, Venus gotta be conjunct Saturn, hope you don't have to square off against one of the darling franchises, etc.

I think Fitz can do it. Help is needed - nice starting DL it seems - they better work on depth - CIN rapped them last season because they brought in fresh, decent bodies all game long. Scour a bit for a vet LB - Barnett helped 'em. Why not try it again? PGH grabbed CIN FA Brandon Johnson - good for them; BUF should have entertained him.

I hope the nonsense about keeping 6 wrs among their current crpo faes awayp - cut 2 of them at least, no other club will be champing at the bit for them. Gotta look elsewhere.

:2cents:

Good post. I don't know how ANY NFL player can be evaluated in a vaccum let alone the QB whose play is affected by so many other players as well as the play call by the OC. Draft boy must be an idealist rather than a realist.

[YardRat]

All I did was mantain that the QB, like every position, needs to be evaluated in a vacuum. Nothing else has really changed.

I disagree with your initial premise as well, then, especially coming from somebody who rates players potential based on the system they will be playing in. Nobody should be evaluated in a vacuum, unless of course the evaluator is one of the type that actually puts stock in insignificancies such as combine results.

If you want to eval players in a vacuum, than it really wouldn't matter whether a DT or DE will be playing in a 3 or 4 man front, a LB will be playing inside/outside, a corner will be playing man or zone...now would it?

[PromoTheRobot]

Fitz is not the "final" answer. He is THE answer of 2012. No promises beyond that.

PTR

[kishoph]

I'm feeling optimistic about Fitz being able to handle the QB duties for a couple more years for the Bills. Some of Fitz's problems have been consistency and accuracy, I think adding David Lee as the QB coach is going to help with both of these issues. On the other hand I think the intangibles that Fitz possesses, are tops. He's a leader who has the support and belief from his teammates and coaches, he has a gung ho approach and isn't at all timid to take a chance to make a play, he's extremely intelligent and knows the offense and how to run it efficiently. He's got a sack that we haven't seen in a QB for the Bills since Jim Kelly. It seems that Fitz's faults are caused by his mechanics, which he has confessed have never been worked on. David Lee has coached some pretty accurate QB's, hopefully he can improve these faults in Fitz's game and I think we'll see a much better QB in 2012. Of course I'm always hoping that the new young stud "franchise QB" will come soon and I'd guess that Buddy Nix is also, but until he comes along, I'm feeling pretty good about Fitz being able to lead the Bills.

[better days]

Why is Dilfer ever even brought up? He never played another down for the Ravens after the Super Bowl, they knew they had to get better at QB, they threw a bunch of money at the guy who was ranked 8th that season, Elvis Grbac!!! Dilfer only proves one thing, that you need a good QB for long term success in the NFL. Why in the world teams stick with known crap like Fitzpatrick is just crazy, the unknown is most certainly better.

The biggest mistake the Ravens ever made was to get rid of Dilfer without having someone better to replace him. The unknown is not certainly better. It may be better or it may be worse. In the case of Dilfer & Grbac it was absolutely worse.

[Mr. Pink]

Isn't that attempting to use an exception to prove a rule? And Dilfer doesn't do what he does without that defense being that good, so you are saying that the Bills D would have to be that good.

If that team was all defense, Tony Banks would have never been benched. Dilfer contributed to the Ravens success.

[PTI]

The biggest mistake the Ravens ever made was to get rid of Dilfer without having someone better to replace him. The unknown is not certainly better. It may be better or it may be worse. In the case of Dilfer & Grbac it was absolutely worse.


Not really. The Bills case is Fitz versus the unknown. Heck, Vince Young is known, he has won games, and Fitz has not, I would rather have the guy with a better track record of actually winning.

Grbac was just coming off of a ridiculously productive season in KC. 4,169 yards, 3rd overall, 8th in QB rating, 4th in TD passes, dude was seemingly an up and comer, if they hit a home run with Grbac they would have won 2 more Super Bowls. Dilfer held the fort, you cannot win over time just holding the fort. Grbac was proven at that time.

[feldspar]

Fitzpatrick is not a proven player...not really.

Even though he signed that contract, he should be worrying about job security right now...not money, but job security. If Nix and company are really as pragmatic as they appear and have demonstrated, then they are definitely already exploring other possibilities. If it wasn't so hard to find a franchise QB, Fitzy wouldn't even be having this huge opportunity, if you think about it.

Fitz will turn 30 during this season. That's a little old to have these glaring, nagging questions about your ability...along with the need to develop further in BIG ways. Here's the thing: this is year to prove a lot of things. I don't think we'll see another schedule as easy as this one, at least on paper...all crazy AWAY games front-loaded early on. Considering WHO we are playing, I don't think the NFL could have devised a harder travel schedule if they made a concerted effort. Perhaps they did? We aren't playing world-beaters by any stretch; in fact, I think we are paired against the two easiest divisions in the league this year: the NFC North and the AFC West, Texans and 49ers aside. That's what I think. Besides playing the teams in our divsion and playing all teams in these two, we have the Browns and Chiefs. Won't get easier later.

Plus, Fitz will have a lot of help on defense, the running game, and special teams. The o-line is fine. Stevie is a true #1, and our receivers should be no excuse. Our depth is much improved this year. Fitz is the wildcard this year, and to me this season will be his defining moment. We are building a solid team here, and if Fitz can't hack it, I don't want him wasting our time...neither do you. I'm behind him 100% this year...rooting for him all the way because he's the undisputed QB this year and he seems like a decent dude.

[better days]

Not really. The Bills case is Fitz versus the unknown. Heck, Vince Young is known, he has won games, and Fitz has not, I would rather have the guy with a better track record of actually winning.

Grbac was just coming off of a ridiculously productive season in KC. 4,169 yards, 3rd overall, 8th in QB rating, 4th in TD passes, dude was seemingly an up and comer, if they hit a home run with Grbac they would have won 2 more Super Bowls. Dilfer held the fort, you cannot win over time just holding the fort. Grbac was proven at that time.

I agree about the Bills. Fitz had better step up his game or he will be replaced if he plays like he did the last half of last year. However Grbac was an absolute mistake by the Ravens, they would have been MUCH better off had they kept Dilfer.

[PTI]

I agree about the Bills. Fitz had better step up his game or he will be replaced if he plays like he did the last half of last year. However Grbac was an absolute mistake by the Ravens, they would have been MUCH better off had they kept Dilfer.

Well, for how it turned out, yes. I do not believe the decision was a mistake though. Dilfer was on the downside of his career, Grbac was seemingly on the upside.

Ravens 2000 QB play:
72.7 rating, 3105 yards passing, 57% completions, 20 TDs, 19 INTs
Offense scored 333 points, defense allowed 165 points. Offense was 14th in points, defense was 1st. Offense was 16th in yards for, Defense was 2nd in yards against.

Ravens 2001 QB play:
72.7 rating, 3385 yards passing, 58% completions, 18 TDs, 20 INTs
Offense scored 303 points, defense allowed 265 points. Offense was 18th in points, defense was still 4th in least points allowed. Offense was 14th in yards for, Defense was the same, 2nd in yards against.

They had virtually identical QB production, and the results were they did make the playoffs, but this time the defense just could not overcome poor QB play. Their defense was elite, but not the crazy good from the year before.

I think they made the right choice for Grbac. Dilfer would not have been good enough to lead them any further IMO. Sucked they paid a lot of money to Grbac to get the same production though.

[better days]

Well, for how it turned out, yes. I do not believe the decision was a mistake though. Dilfer was on the downside of his career, Grbac was seemingly on the upside.

Ravens 2000 QB play:
72.7 rating, 3105 yards passing, 57% completions, 20 TDs, 19 INTs
Offense scored 333 points, defense allowed 165 points. Offense was 14th in points, defense was 1st. Offense was 16th in yards for, Defense was 2nd in yards against.

Ravens 2001 QB play:
72.7 rating, 3385 yards passing, 58% completions, 18 TDs, 20 INTs
Offense scored 303 points, defense allowed 265 points. Offense was 18th in points, defense was still 4th in least points allowed. Offense was 14th in yards for, Defense was the same, 2nd in yards against.

They had virtually identical QB production, and the results were they did make the playoffs, but this time the defense just could not overcome poor QB play. Their defense was elite, but not the crazy good from the year before.

I think they made the right choice for Grbac. Dilfer would not have been good enough to lead them any further IMO. Sucked they paid a lot of money to Grbac to get the same production though.

Yeah, absolutly the right move to bring a in a guy that does not get you wins. Stats, you must be a huge Trent Edwards fan. No wonder you hate Fitz so much.

[Syderick]

I hope he can be a solid starter. He's able to throw over 3000 yards, 20 tds and complete 60%. If he works out well, the Bills can focus on other needs, instead of being restricted. Plus the Bills are awful at drafting QBs or finding them in FA market.