If we keep VY, why do we need Brad Smith?

[X-Era]

Just was thinking about it. Vince is a better passer and is a significant running threat. Wouldn't VY be a better option in the Wildcat?

I can see that you might not want to risk injury to your 2nd string QB by running him every game as your Wildcat QB. But, he's a better passer and an equal runner IMO.

I also don't consider Smith to be worth keeping as a WR. I'd rather keep Roosevelt or some other young player that's strictly a WR.

If we cut Brad Smith we get back his 3 mill per as well.

I'd seriously think about cutting Smith and Thigpen and grabbing a developmental 3rd string QB from the waiver wire.

[YardRat]

That's a very good question, but pretty sure Gailey has already come out and declared the #3 QB spot for Smith.

The only difference really is the depth that Smith provides at WR and KR, which may provide more value at this point than a clipboard holder.

[X-Era]

That's a very good question, but pretty sure Gailey has already come out and declared the #3 QB spot for Smith.

The only difference really is the depth that Smith provides at WR and KR, which may provide more value at this point than a clipboard holder.Didn't think of that. Good point.

Hell, I'd almost think about a younger (and much cheaper) version of a mobile, gadget QB then... Maybe Dennis Dixon? Word is Josh Johnson is on the bubble as well. Troy Smith?

And I really don't consider Smith much of a KR either.

[YardRat]

Didn't think of that. Good point.

Hell, I'd almost think about a younger (and much cheaper) version of a mobile, gadget QB then... Maybe Dennis Dixon? Word is Josh Johnson is on the bubble as well. Troy Smith?

And I really don't consider Smith much of a KR either.

I agree, but at least he can be plugged in during a game if a couple of guys go down with injuries. You're not going to do that with Young.

[X-Era]

I agree, but at least he can be plugged in during a game if a couple of guys go down with injuries. You're not going to do that with Young.
That's true. But is that worth 3 mill per year?

[YardRat]

That's true. But is that worth 3 mill per year?

Only if he contributes as a WR and is used more extensively and effectively in the WildCat than he was last season. At this point, there really isn't anything out there to spend that 3mil on, and unless an LT, C or Safety becomes available from a future cut that would require that kind of cash there might not be a better 'bang for your buck' option for this season. Besides, more than one numbnuts will start bellowing 'Ralph is cheap!' if/when Smith gets cuts regardless of how rational the move might actually be.

- - - Updated - - -

For the record, if Young does make the team I would love to see him used in the WildCat also.

[X-Era]

And cutting Smith and Thigpen gives us back over 6 mill in cap space?!!!

http://nyjetscap.com/Bills/bills2012.php
http://nyjetscap.com/Bills/bills2013.php

[X-Era]

Only if he contributes as a WR and is used more extensively and effectively in the WildCat than he was last season. At this point, there really isn't anything out there to spend that 3mil on, and unless an LT, C or Safety becomes available from a future cut that would require that kind of cash there might not be a better 'bang for your buck' option for this season. Besides, more than one numbnuts will start bellowing 'Ralph is cheap!' if/when Smith gets cuts regardless of how rational the move might actually be.

- - - Updated - - -

For the record, if Young does make the team I would love to see him used in the WildCat also.It could give us cash for a player or two at a more pressing area after cuts come down. But it also could be used toward next years cap. Right now we sit at 7 mill in cap space according to the link. That would bump us to 13 mill and give us the room to extend Wood, Levitre, and Byrd.

The 2013 link puts us at 111 mill probably with a 120 or 121 cap. So next year we might be around 17 mill in space if we cut these two.

This link says to be thinking about 6.5 mill per for levitre and maybe 5 mill per for Byrd:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1222090-2013-nfl-free-agency-buffalo-bills-should-sign-andy-levitre-before-jairus-byrd

[ublinkwescore]

Get rid of both, and extend Byrd and Levitre. This is a clearcut no brainer.

[YardRat]

Get rid of both, and extend Byrd and Levitre. This is a clearcut no brainer.

If at some point it comes down to those choices, it would be hard to argue against it. And I wouldn't.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Just was thinking about it. Vince is a better passer and is a significant running threat. Wouldn't VY be a better option in the Wildcat?

I can see that you might not want to risk injury to your 2nd string QB by running him every game as your Wildcat QB. But, he's a better passer and an equal runner IMO.

I also don't consider Smith to be worth keeping as a WR. I'd rather keep Roosevelt or some other young player that's strictly a WR.

If we cut Brad Smith we get back his 3 mill per as well.

I'd seriously think about cutting Smith and Thigpen and grabbing a developmental 3rd string QB from the waiver wire.
Because Smith can also line up as a receiver and Vince Young can't. It does add another element to the Bills offense even if Smith isn't very good at catching passes. JMO

[Figster]

I really like the idea of getting Young onto the football field...

[mightysimi]

I really like the idea of getting Young onto the football field...

The same Vince Young that couldn't figure out the playbook? The same guy that is taking all of camp and 2 pre-season games to pull ahead of Tyler Thigpen? Why because of 1 bomb to TJ Graham. If I recall, Smith was money on third and short from the wildcat. He seemed to convert anything 2-3 and under. I don't hate Vince Young but I disagree he can do what Smith does out of the Wildcat. Smith was a running QB, used to picking his holes. VY is a scrambler.

[kingJofNYC]

All of a sudden everyone's looking to save Ralph some money. Who cares, the dude is a gone sooner or later, it's not an immediate issue, doubt he's with the club next season. Team has bigger problems than Brad Smith.

And which developmental QB will be out there for the team to sign, Pat Devlin?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Come on, do you really want Tyler Thigpen as your third-string quarterback? This team doesn't hire rookie quarterbacks anymore, so unless you keep Smith that's all you have.

[Figster]

The same Vince Young that couldn't figure out the playbook? The same guy that is taking all of camp and 2 pre-season games to pull ahead of Tyler Thigpen? Why because of 1 bomb to TJ Graham. If I recall, Smith was money on third and short from the wildcat. He seemed to convert anything 2-3 and under. I don't hate Vince Young but I disagree he can do what Smith does out of the Wildcat. Smith was a running QB, used to picking his holes. VY is a scrambler.


Yup, the same one...

[Raptor]

Because V.Young would be horrible at the wild cat

Run Option, Maybe

Wild cat no way, he's not nearly the runner you need to be able to do that

Keep in mind there is a big difference between a QB that can scramble and a QB that can actually run

[GingerP]

The Bills have already paid Smith $6M so that money is gone, so the question is whether they consider it a sunk cost or they want to pay him $2.25M in salary this year to find out if he can earn it. I would think they wouldn't keep him beyond this year unless he carves out a bigger role, because he is due another $2.25M in salary and a $500K roster bonus in 2013.

If they do cut him, I imagine the Jets would be all over it. They need help at WR, and he did a decent job for them in that role. Even Miami might take a look, because they suck at WR.

Really, to earn his money he will have to be used as a reserve WR. The Wildcat role alone isn't enough to justify the role.

[IAG]

Yes. We need to gather talent not cut it.

[Figster]

Because V.Young would be horrible at the wild cat

Run Option, Maybe

Wild cat no way, he's not nearly the runner you need to be able to do that

Keep in mind there is a big difference between a QB that can scramble and a QB that can actually run

I actually like the idea of Gailey scripting 10-15 plays VY could run and sprinkling him into the game plan to add another wrinkle.(5-10 plays) Doesn't necessarily have to be the Wildcat, but for anyone who thinks Young is not an effective runner, your not going to convince me of it.

[Mr. Pink]

We keep Brad Smith because of his position flexibility.

And no, the dude is not worth his contract but who else are we gonna spend it on at this point?

[SABURZFAN]

this team doesn't need Smith at all.

[Ed]

I think Brad Smith is a much better runner than Young. At this point in his career, Vince Young isn't really that fast or effective as a runner if you know he's going to run. Like someone else said, he's a good scrambler when things break down or he can't read the D, but I don't consider him an equal runner to Smith.

I think Gailey has pretty big plans for the wildcat compared to last season, and he seems to think Brad Smith is the perfect guy for it. I think he would prefer that our backup qb focus exclusively on being a qb and have Smith focus on the wildcat and try to develop and expand it more.

Plus injuries to Young running the wildcat would be a legitimate concern. If you have Young run the wildcat you would still need another legit 3rd qb, so cutting Smith wouldn't really free up a spot. It would just take away whatever versatility Smith brings to other positions.

[gebobs]

That's a very good question, but pretty sure Gailey has already come out and declared the #3 QB spot for Smith.
More reason that Gailey should be held accountable now better than later. Gailey sucks. He's a gimmick coach, lee is a gimmick coach, and Smith is a gimmick player.

[gebobs]

I think Brad Smith is a much better runner than Young. At this point in his career, Vince Young isn't really that fast or effective as a runner if you know he's going to run. Like someone else said, he's a good scrambler when things break down or he can't read the D, but I don't consider him an equal runner to Smith.
Debatable but VY has one huge advantage of Smith. Defenses don't know if he's going to run or not. He can still throw. Brad Smith is the worst passer I have seen in a Bills uni and I was there when Gary Marangi played. Brohm is ten times better. Heck, Fred Jackson is 20 times better.

[stuckincincy]

We keep Brad Smith because of his position flexibility.

And no, the dude is not worth his contract but who else are we gonna spend it on at this point?

He takes up a roster spot. He wasn't worth much to NYJ, and BUF took a flyer on him. Water over the dam. They can keep a body with hopes of shoring up the LB positions, for example.

I think keeping 3 qbs makes no sense these days. He's no NFL qb. If you get to the situation where you need a 3rd, I suspect you are already sunk, and thank the stars if you have a lead then.

[CuseJetsFan83]

He takes up a roster spot. He wasn't worth much to NYJ, and BUF took a flyer on him. Water over the dam. They can keep a body with hopes of shoring up the LB positions, for example.

I think keeping 3 qbs makes no sense these days. He's no NFL qb. If you get to the situation where you need a 3rd, I suspect you are already sunk, and thank the stars if you have a lead then.

Actually he was quite valuable to the jets, and their lack of production on ST was quite evident with BS being gone. they wanted to keep him, but were in salary cap hell thanks to tannenbum's idiocy.

[gebobs]

Actually he was quite valuable to the jets, and their lack of production on ST was quite evident with BS being gone. they wanted to keep him, but were in salary cap hell thanks to tannenbum's idiocy.
What does he bring to special teams that the Jets are missing? Certainly not kick returns. Even with the new rule that handicaps the returner, Joe McKnight had a better per return average last year than Smith ever did for the Jets and nearly twice what Smith got last year for the Bills.

Brad Smith sucks. It was a lame ass free agency pick up.

[trapezeus]

i thought there is some issue with a 3rd string qb coming in before the 4th quarter and limiting your starter from coming back. how do the bills intend to get around that caveat? i may have the rule wrong, but i thought there was something like that out there.

[The Jokeman]

Brad Smith is Derek Hagan with a touch of Joshua Cribbs and a touch of Armanti Edwards thrown in. Yet with the new kickoff rules he's less valuable. So now we have a 4th WR/occasional QB. Is he getting paid too much yes but because he can play several roles he will likely stick unless we can find someone better at 3rd string QB/4th or 5th WR. I think he sticks around for this year but could be shown the door next year when we draft a QB in Round 1 or 2 of the draft next year.

[PTI]

Brad Smith will be justified to keep because the Bills will end up keeping a long snapper and a kicker who just does kickoffs. The Bills will never win because they do not keep the best players on the roster. This is still a straight up Jauron move to keep all these specialists, and you wonder why we never have experienced depth, poor roster management.

[GingerP]

i thought there is some issue with a 3rd string qb coming in before the 4th quarter and limiting your starter from coming back. how do the bills intend to get around that caveat? i may have the rule wrong, but i thought there was something like that out there.

That was the old rule and was changed before last season. It used to be there were 45 active players on game day and the 3rd QB would be the 46th. He could play in case of emergency, but the other QBs could not return before the 4th quarter.

Now, the 46th player is active. That means you can either dress a non-QB and have an extra player or your 3rd QB is just another active player who can be used at any time. Some are saying it will make teams more likely to use a gadget QB like Smith or Tebow, since they could be used in the game without effecting use of the top-2.

[Bill Cody]

Brad Smith was a wasted and expensive sign, jack of all trades master of none. Pig Pen is a bum. I don't care if VY is still working on p. 2 of the playbook. I have FAR more confidence something good is going to happen with VY on the field than either of the other two pretenders, not close. The wildcat is a stupid offense. It was effective for a short time until defenses learned to defend it. Now it's just dumb.

I would have no problem with VY being given 10-15 plays as the Dog suggested. It could actually be an effective way to mess with teams preparation, unlike the entirely predictable wildcat. I'm not a member of the VY fan club but the man can at least make some plays. Tell me honestly, if you see Smith or Pig Pen trot to the huddle do you feel anything other than a sense of panic? I don't.

[gebobs]

Brad Smith is Derek Hagan with a touch of Joshua Cribbs and a touch of Armanti Edwards thrown in.
I prefer "the poor man's Randle El". :-)


So now we have a 4th WR/occasional QB.
He only becomes the 4th WR if (when?) the injury bug hits the wideouts again.

I can't stand Brad Smith. Mainly because I can't stand the Wildcat. Gailey's insistence on keeping it in the playbook and his apparent intention of featuring it more this year is frustrating.

[Buddo]

People seem to forget that before he had to help out at WR, Smith was the chain mover on 3rd and short, from the wildcat. It's the first time in years, that I thought we were (and did) going to regularly convert those plays.
If he can continue to do that, then he will be worth every cent. You have to convert on as many 3rd downs as possible, and Smith helped us do that - a lot, when we ran the wildcat in the first part of the season. Oddly enough, that coincided with a good record for us - what was it, 5-2?
Smith is quite capable of earning his crust in other ways, as well. TBH, if we wanted a more bruising option at RB, I'd be tempted to use him there occasionally.
All in all, I think he both is, and will show, that he's worth his spot.

[GingerP]

People seem to forget that before he had to help out at WR, Smith was the chain mover on 3rd and short, from the wildcat. It's the first time in years, that I thought we were (and did) going to regularly convert those plays.
If he can continue to do that, then he will be worth every cent. You have to convert on as many 3rd downs as possible, and Smith helped us do that - a lot, when we ran the wildcat in the first part of the season. Oddly enough, that coincided with a good record for us - what was it, 5-2?

I think you are overstating how effective he was. Smith only had 20 carries all year, and only 6 were on 3rd down (one of those 3rd-and-23, so not short yardage). He was effective in the opener, with two 3rd and short conversions, but only converted 1-of-3 3rd-and-short opportunites the rest of the year. Most of his carries came on 1st or 2nd down.

Summary:

Kansas City


1-10-BUF 38
(2:33) (Shotgun) Direct snap to 16-B.Smith. 16-B.Smith up the middle to BUF 38 for no gain (91-T.Hali; 94-T.Jackson).


3-1-KC 33
(9:36) Direct snap to 16-B.Smith. 16-B.Smith up the middle to KC 31 for 2 yards (59-J.Belcher).


3-1-KC 26
(8:13) Direct snap to 16-B.Smith. 16-B.Smith up the middle to KC 22 for 4 yards (72-G.Dorsey; 59-J.Belcher).


Oakland Raiders


3-23-BUF 48
(4:51) (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith sacked at BUF 42 for -6 yards (55-R.McClain). Rush after pitch-back to right side from R.Fitzpatrick.


2-3-OAK 25
(4:12) Wildcat - B.Smith in at QB. 16-B.Smith left end pushed ob at OAK 16 for 9 yards (52-Q.Groves).


2-1-OAK 36
(5:48) Wildcat - B.Smith in at QB. (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith right end pushed ob at OAK 25 for 11 yards (27-M.Giordano). Key block: C.McInytre.


New England Patriots


1-10-NE 39
(13:16) B.Smith at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). 16-B.Smith up the middle to NE 34 for 5 yards (55-B.Spikes).


2-5-NE 34
(12:39) B.Smith at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). 16-B.Smith up the middle to NE 33 for 1 yard (75-V.Wilfork, 32-D.McCourty).


Philadelphia Eagles


2-6-BUF 38
(6:39) B.Smith lines up at QB. (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith left guard to BUF 35 for -3 yards (24-N.Asomugha).


1-5-PHI 5
(9:16) B.Smith lines up at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith up the middle for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Key block: E.Wood.


2-11-BUF 41
(1:45) B.Smith lines up at QB. (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith up the middle to BUF 49 for 8 yards (59-B.Rolle; 53-M.Fokou).


3-3-BUF 49
(1:38) B.Smith lines up at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith up the middle to PHI 49 for 2 yards (29-N.Allen, 97-C.Jenkins). Measurement = fourth down.


New York Giants


2-5-BUF 28
(9:10) B. Smith at QB. (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith left tackle to BUF 46 for 18 yards (21-K.Phillips, 23-C.Webster). NYG-21-K.Phillips was injured during the play.


1-10-BUF 35
(13:44) B.Smith at QB. 16-B.Smith right end pushed ob at BUF 39 for 4 yards (34-D.Grant).


3-1-BUF 49
(15:00) B.Smith at QB. (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith left tackle to BUF 49 for no gain (94-M.Kiwanuka).


2-6-BUF 30
(6:15) B.Smith at QB. (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith scrambles right end pushed ob at BUF 34 for 4 yards (59-M.Boley).


Washington Redskins


3-2-WAS 28
(6:45) B.Smith at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith up the middle to WAS 23 for 5 yards (59-L.Fletcher).


3-1-WAS 16
(11:33) B.Smith at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). (Shotgun) PENALTY on BUF-22-F.Jackson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 16 - No Play.


2-7-BUF 40
(7:12) B.Smith at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith up the middle to BUF 40 for no gain (23-D.Hall, 52-R.McIntosh).


1-10-WAS 43
(5:47) B.Smith at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at QB). 16-B.Smith left tackle to WAS 37 for 6 yards (59-L.Fletcher, 96-B.Cofield).


2-9-WAS 27
(3:38) B.Smith at QB (R.Fitzpatrick at WR). (Shotgun) 16-B.Smith right guard to WAS 24 for 3 yards (59-L.Fletcher, 96-B.Cofield).


New York Jets


1-10-NYJ 41
(11:02) 16-B.Smith left end to NYJ 38 for 3 yards (79-R.Pitoitua; 22-B.Pool).