Whose Roster would you rather have, Colts or Bills

[Mike]

I believe the Colts did the right thing last year. After many years with Peyton they realized the value of a QB to a franchise & how even with one of the best QBs of all time it's still difficult to win a championship. With this knowledge & the reality that their chances of winning an SB without #18 last year was near 0% I believe they mailed in the season with the hopes of drafting Luck. So far it looks like they made the right decision. I am willing to bet that they will win more games in the next 15years than the Bills & perhaps another SB.

Now ask yourselves was it worth tanking last year for Luck? S
So far it's a resounding yes!

- - - Updated - - -

So, would you rather have the Bills roster or Colts roster?

[Skooby]

Bills have a chance to make the playoffs this year, the Colts do not. So I'll take the Bills, thanks.

[Mike]

Bills have a chance to make the playoffs this year, the Colts do not. So I'll take the Bills, thanks.

That may be true but this is not the last year of football. There is next year, and so on. Knowing that which roster would you rather have?

[better days]

That may be true but this is not the last year of football. There is next year, and so on. Knowing that which roster would you rather have?

I would rather have a roster of Buffalo Bills than Colts. You can't change rosters, you can only choose to root for a different roster. If you like you can root for the Colts, but I will remain a Bills fan myself.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The Colts have their franchise QB but need lots of weapons, interior linemen, and defense. They're switching from their cover 2 speed defense to Baltimore style big tough defense so they'll need a lot of players.

The Bills have almost everything else in place. If Fitz is not the guy, they're only one or two top draft picks away from being complete.

I'll take the Bills.

[Mike]

I would rather have a roster of Buffalo Bills than Colts. You can't change rosters, you can only choose to root for a different roster. If you like you can root for the Colts, but I will remain a Bills fan myself.

Obviously you can't change rosters eventhough rosters change all the time. Given the option, & use your imagination, would you swap out Colts roster for Bills if given the chance. In other words, if you were Bills GM & the colts GM asked you to trade all players from one team to the other would you do it? Luck would be a Bill, Mario a Colt, etc...
what would you do?

[BillsOverDolphins]

If you're a rational human being, you take the Colts everytime. They have a franchise QB, which is what separates the haves and have-nots in this league. They are guaranteed to be a competitive team for the next 12-15 years--barring injury.

The Bills may have better overall personnel at more positions, but not where it matters most. The value of Luck trumps everything else by a landslide. Their WR's/TE's are also world's better than ours.

[Meathead]

if luck is going to be that once a decade guy as advertised then its easy. todays nfl is about qb first, second, and third. it almost doesnt matter how good or bad the rest of the team is, without an elite qb your chances of winning a title plummet

the colts will be stockpiling highly drafted talent for at least three years straight. they will be restocked by the time luck is exiting his early learning curve

id take the colts

[Mr. Pink]

If you're a rational human being, you take the Colts everytime. They have a franchise QB, which is what separates the haves and have-nots in this league. They are guaranteed to be a competitive team for the next 12-15 years--barring injury.

The Bills may have better overall personnel at more positions, but not where it matters most. The value of Luck trumps everything else by a landslide. Their WR's/TE's are also world's better than ours.

Their WRs are gutted outside of Wayne they got no one and at these points in each's respective career I'd take Stevie over Reggie.

Now TE is a different story. I really like Fleener and the fact he and Luck already have chemistry makes his transition to the pro game all that much easier.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Hilton is performing well too--that ridiculous drop/int aside. Dwayne Allen is also a another nice TE they drafted.

[SquishDaFish]

I agree about Luck and being a franchise type QB which would be nice. BUT their WRs better then ours?? Your nuts saying that.

[djjimkelly]

the colts have ZERO pieces on defense

yes i know they have mathis and freeney both way too old to match with luck if he pans out.

our D if close to what alot of think it can be could carry this team

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Franchise QB and no dead weight. Easy. I take the Colts every time.

[better days]

Obviously you can't change rosters eventhough rosters change all the time. Given the option, & use your imagination, would you swap out Colts roster for Bills if given the chance. In other words, if you were Bills GM & the colts GM asked you to trade all players from one team to the other would you do it? Luck would be a Bill, Mario a Colt, etc...
what would you do?

Well, you are right rosters change all the time. Just look how Nix & Gailey have changed the Bills roster in 3 years time. That said you can't just switch rosters with another team. Even if you could, I would not trade the Bills roster for the Colts roster just to get Luck. I would trade the Bills roster for the Giants, Steelers, or Packers roster however.

[better days]

if luck is going to be that once a decade guy as advertised then its easy. todays nfl is about qb first, second, and third. it almost doesnt matter how good or bad the rest of the team is, without an elite qb your chances of winning a title plummet

the colts will be stockpiling highly drafted talent for at least three years straight. they will be restocked by the time luck is exiting his early learning curve

id take the colts

Well, there could be another once a decade QB available in the NEXT draft.

[Night Train]

So the Colts are one hit away from going 0-16.

Bills.

[better days]

So the Colts are one hit away from going 0-16.

Bills.

It may not even take a hit. Luck has looked good in PRESEASON against VANILLA Defenses. Let's wait until he plays a regular season game before we elect him into the HOF.

[Night Train]

It may not even take a hit. Luck has looked good in PRESEASON against VANILLA Defenses. Let's wait until he plays a regular season game before we elect him into the HOF.

He's a great future talent and Brown is a good RB. Fleener was a smart choice at TE, since Luck knows his game.

Questions all over on OL and the entire D. Bills need a QB next year and seem to be far more solid across the board for years to come.

Rose colored glasses must be on sale again.

[YardRat]

They have Freeney and Mathis starting at outside LBer. We already ditched a dumbass that tried to pull that **** here, very predictably unsuccessfully. The regular season may be more about the QB than ever right now, but defense (and line play) still wins championships.

Some may think that Luck automatically puts the Colts future regularly deep into the playoffs and sporting big shiny rings, but I'm betting the under and ten years from now Indy fans will be lamenting never surrounding Luck with enough talent to get to the top. Some people piss and moan about Ralph 'gettin' lucky' with Polian, but the Irsays certainly weren't much more than perennial also-rans until they 'got lucky' with an over-achieving defense on a three-game run. Say what you want about P.Manning, he's a HOFer based on his regular season performances, but he also is a classic big-game choker and without the performance of his defense that season he'd still be looking for a ring.

[better days]

He's a great future talent and Brown is a good RB. Fleener was a smart choice at TE, since Luck knows his game.

Questions all over on OL and the entire D. Bills need a QB next year and seem to be far more solid across the board for years to come.

Rose colored glasses must be on sale again.

Well, time will tell just how great a talent Luck will become. By the time he hits his stride, every good player on that roster except those drafted this year will be too old. Two big questions facing the Colts are can Luck become the player many people believe he will be & can the Colts surround him with enough good players to win? Without Polian. Seems to me the Bills had a hard time replaceing Polian, I would not be surprised to see the Colts have just as hard a time.

[PTI]

I believe AFC South can be up for grabs, and Houston is no lock. The other 3 teams have young QBs and the Jags have a really good defense, Titans an OK defense, and Colts have a lot of young players who are hungry after being so bad last year.

[Extremebillsfan247]

They don't have Super Mario, Stevie Johnson, Fred Jackson, Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus, Stephon Gilmore etc. Forget that I'm a Bills fan for a moment, and base this solely on overall talent level of players on both teams, and the Colts don't come close in my opinion. All the Colts have are Luck and Wayne. The rest of what was good about that team bolted when Manning signed with Denver.

[BillsOverDolphins]

^
Franchise QB>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ANYTHING ELSE

[better days]

^
Franchise QB>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ANYTHING ELSE

So you expect the Colts to go 16-0 or at least win their division then?

[Extremebillsfan247]

lol Luck hasn't even played a regular season game and he's already a franchise caliber QB? What ever happened to preseason means nothing? Getting drafted high doesn't make a QB a franchise caliber QB. Ask Jamarcus Russell.

[zone]

This topic is just plain dumb. There isn't team in the nfl that would purposely tank a season for any player or any reason. Get real.

[PTI]

ANyone comparing the work ethic and expectations of success between Russell and Luck is a little crazy.

[BillsOverDolphins]

ANyone comparing the work ethic and expectations of success between Russell and Luck is a little crazy.

and borderline ******ed.

[BillsOverDolphins]

So you expect the Colts to go 16-0 or at least win their division then?

That post makes no sense whatsoever. What correlation are you trying to make here? Are the Bills going to go 16-0 with their "vastly superior talent than Indy's?"

There is no more important or impactful position in sports than NFL Quarterback. If you happen to get a stud, your team will be competitive for 10-15 years. There might be some growing pains for a year (maybe 2), but you're pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot every year after that. Luck takes a wet dump on anything else we have.

[better days]

That post makes no sense whatsoever. What correlation are you trying to make here? Are the Bills going to go 16-0 with their "vastly superior talent than Indy's?"

There is no more important or impactful position in sports than NFL Quarterback. If you happen to get a stud, your team will be competitive for 10-15 years. There might be some growing pains for a year (maybe 2), but you're pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot every year after that. Luck takes a wet dump on anything else we have.

You posted a Franchise QB> than anything else in a thread that asks the question would you trade the Bills roster for the Colts roster. That is the post that makes no sense, because if true, then the Franchise QB (assuming Luck is that) should be greater than anything else & win every game.

Of course we all know that it takes more than a franchise QB to win in the NFL & Payton Manning, probably the best QB of his generation has only one Super Bowl to his credit for that reason.

[PTI]

If anything Jamarcus Russell is vindication of how important the QB spot is. Raiders knew they were taking a questionable player in Russell, a guy with a history of getting in some trouble, a bad attitude, potential ot be overweight, not the most accurate guy at the moment, benched at times for Matt Flynn, and took him anyway and gave him like 60 million all for the hope that he could have a light turn on and be a stud QB that most all teams need to be consistent playoff team and Super Bowl contender.

[better days]

If anything Jamarcus Russell is vindication of how important the QB spot is. Raiders knew they were taking a questionable player in Russell, a guy with a history of getting in some trouble, a bad attitude, potential ot be overweight, not the most accurate guy at the moment, benched at times for Matt Flynn, and took him anyway and gave him like 60 million all for the hope that he could have a light turn on and be a stud QB that most all teams need to be consistent playoff team and Super Bowl contender.

Well, Al Davis must have really gotten senile before he died, based on the decisions he made the last 4-5 years of his life.

[BillsOverDolphins]

You posted a Franchise QB> than anything else in a thread that asks the question would you trade the Bills roster for the Colts roster. That is the post that makes no sense, because if true, then the Franchise QB (assuming Luck is that) should be greater than anything else & win every game.

Of course we all know that it takes more than a franchise QB to win in the NFL & Payton Manning, probably the best QB of his generation has only one Super Bowl to his credit for that reason.

It still doesn't make sense, sorry. You're equating franchise QB with "going undefeated" out of thin air to support your weak argument. Look at the thread title: It says, which roster would you rather have, Colts or Bills? The Bills don't have a franchise QB, so mediocrity is their ceiling for as many years as they don't have one. The Colts have the most important piece to the puzzle, so their future is much brighter.

This is a really simple concept, and easy to comprehend if you've watched the NFL for at least one season.

[better days]

It still doesn't make sense, sorry. You're equating franchise QB with "going undefeated" out of thin air to support your weak argument. Look at the thread title: It says, which roster would you rather have, Colts or Bills? The Bills don't have a franchise QB, so mediocrity is their ceiling for as many years as they don't have one. The Colts have the most important piece to the puzzle, so their future is much brighter.

This is a really simple concept, and easy to comprehend if you've watched the NFL for at least one season.

REREAD your own post. Greater than means TRUMPS all. In other words you are saying a franchise QB is greater than EVERYTHING else which is simply not true or a franchise QB should be able to win every game.

[PromoTheRobot]

The Rams have a "franchise QB" too...and they draft in the top 3 every year.

PTR

[Extremebillsfan247]

ANyone comparing the work ethic and expectations of success between Russell and Luck is a little crazy.

Anyone who thinks a rookies career can be figured out in 2 preseason games is really crazy. :bravo:

[gebobs]

Bills have a chance to make the playoffs this year, the Colts do not. So I'll take the Bills, thanks.
LOL...oooookay!

[Bill Cody]

I would trade our entire roster, coaches, owner, cleaning crew, and stadium for Andrew Luck. Colts

[Bill Cody]

Anyone who thinks a rookies career can be figured out in 2 preseason games is really crazy. :bravo:

Call me off the wall, rubber room, strait jacket, drink from a dribble cup, bat**** crazy then cuz I got it all figured out. Andrew Luck is the real deal.

[PTI]

Call me off the wall, rubber room, strait jacket, drink from a dribble cup, bat**** crazy then cuz I got it all figured out. Andrew Luck is the real deal.

I just pooped my pants too. No control at all. Just......................................want.....................................QB..............................poop

[Mike]

This topic is just plain dumb. There isn't team in the nfl that would purposely tank a season for any player or any reason. Get real.

That's NOT true.
I have heard plenty of GM state that a team needs to completely bottom out so they can rebuild properly. That's why many sports have draft lotteries.

Now for all of you would prefer the Colts roster what your actually saying is that it was worth it for the Colts to bottom out last year. In this case, I agree. Getting a once in a decade prospect out of a lost season is worth the gamble. I predict that the Colts next 12 years will be just as good as the last 12! Most Middle of the road teams, and god bless them, will not have same type of success. It's a QB league first and foremost.

[stuckincincy]

That's NOT true.
I have heard plenty of GM state that a team needs to completely bottom out so they can rebuild properly. That's why many sports have draft lotteries.

Now for all of you would prefer the Colts roster what your actually saying is that it was worth it for the Colts to bottom out last year. In this case, I agree. Getting a once in a decade prospect out of a lost season is worth the gamble. I predict that the Colts next 12 years will be just as good as the last 12! Most Middle of the road teams, and god bless them, will not have same type of success. It's a QB league first and foremost.

Heh -we all need to hop into Mr. Peabody's wayback machine and stop in the last week of the 1968 season. :kid:

PHI dumbly beats NO 24 - 17 in week 13. They are 2 and 11. BUF is 1-11-1.

Week 14, PHI smartly loses. BUF plays @HOU. Darragh and Rutkowski end up with a net 10 yards of pass offense. Haven Moses catches 1 pass. BUF loses 35 - 6.

BUF selects O.J. Simpson with the 1st pick. PHI selects Purdues' Leroy Keys with the 2nd.

[BillsOverDolphins]

I would trade our entire roster, coaches, owner, cleaning crew, and stadium for Andrew Luck. Colts

Yep.

[better days]

Heh -we all need to hop into Mr. Peabody's wayback machine and stop in the last week of the 1968 season. :kid:

PHI dumbly beats NO 24 - 17 in week 13. They are 2 and 11. BUF is 1-11-1.

Week 14, PHI smartly loses. BUF plays @HOU. Darragh and Rutkowski end up with a net 10 yards of pass offense. Haven Moses catches 1 pass. BUF loses 35 - 6.

BUF selects O.J. Simpson with the 1st pick. PHI selects Purdues' Leroy Keys with the 2nd.

Well, if you went back in time, you would know Rutkowski was a WR NOT a QB. He was forced to play QB because every QB on that terrible team was injured. The Bills did not throw that game or season, the were simply the worst team in the NFL that year.

[gebobs]

Well, if you went back in time, you would know Rutkowski was a WR NOT a QB.
Got that right. 27 rating in 3 games that year.

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Buffalo_Bills_season):

The majority of Buffalo's games were started by backup quarterback Dan Darragh, after injuries claimed the seasons of long-time starter Jack Kemp and new addition Tom Flores. Even Darragh and new addition Kay Stephenson were injured. Ultimately, running back Ed Rutkowski, who hadn't played the quarterback position since college six years prior, ended up starting at quarterback for the Bills.

Yeah, Ed played a lot of roles including running back, wideout and split end. He was never a good quarterback.


He was forced to play QB because every QB on that terrible team was injured. The Bills did not throw that game or season, the were simply the worst team in the NFL that year.
And to put that into more perspective, the other "quarterbacks" on that team weren't much better:

Dan Darragh, a rookie picked in the 13th round out of William and Mary, started 7 games and had a 33 rating.

Kay Stephenson, who backed up Steve Spurrier at Florida, had a 32 rating and was out of the NFL as a player after that season only to once again haunt the fans when Wilson inexplicably tapped him as coach. Wilson's choices for head coach have generally been head scratchers, but this one was really odd. Even Stephenson didn't understand it.

And then there's Tom Flores, most famously noted in Bills history as the chump Wilson traded Daryl Lamonica for. Wilson must have felt betrayed when Davis played him like that after bailing the Raiders franchise out. That trade was one of the death knells for the AFL glory years. In '68, Flores managed a whopping 25 rating. LOL

And of course, Jack Kemp was out for the whole season and the grim reaper of football was tapping at his door anyway. Kemp was pick of that litter for sure, but that doesn't say a thing about his own ability. His talents were game management and leadership, not passing, and he struggled to stay at about a 60 rating his entire career. Pretty lousy even considering the standards of the day. Everyone in the stands at the old Rockpile would cringe every time he dropped back to pass.

[stuckincincy]

Well, if you went back in time, you would know Rutkowski was a WR NOT a QB. He was forced to play QB because every QB on that terrible team was injured. The Bills did not throw that game or season, the were simply the worst team in the NFL that year.

See if you can resurrect the radio broadcast of that game. I remember it.

[better days]

See if you can resurrect the radio broadcast of that game. I remember it.

Well, I would have no desire to relive that terrible game or year even if I could. I can say without question however that the Bills deserved to lose every game they did & did not tank any game on purpose.

Just look at how the Bills used OJ after he was drafted as evidence of how inept those Coaches were. OJ was used as a decoy, rarely touching the ball until Saban was rehired & resurrected his career.

[stuckincincy]

Well, I would have no desire to relive that terrible game or year even if I could. I can say without question however that the Bills deserved to lose every game they did & did not tank any game on purpose.

Just look at how the Bills used OJ after he was drafted as evidence of how inept those Coaches were. OJ was used as a decoy, rarely touching the ball until Saban was rehired & resurrected his career.

His 1st HC was the ex-OAK John Rauch. He thought that OJ was a pass threat first. IIRC, OJ still holds the KO return average record. Something crazy like 40+ yards,

Young folks probably don't know, but he had great hands, seldom used in subsequent seasons. Not often asked to block, but he was terrific at it - folks lose sight of the fact that Simpson was a big, big back for the times. Yet such speed, such moves. The BUF OL - Electric Company, opened the holes for him most times. Simpson was great at sensing that, moreover, he did the same downfield, with defenses knowing what to defend against. He cut them, hit them, and flew past.

I didn't see a back with such ability until Herschel Walker hit the scene.

[Mike]

So you expect the Colts to go 16-0 or at least win their division then?

I dont understand the correlation. There have been many Franchise QBs in NFL History, none of which have gone 16-0 other than Brady.

[Mike]

lol Luck hasn't even played a regular season game and he's already a franchise caliber QB? What ever happened to preseason means nothing? Getting drafted high doesn't make a QB a franchise caliber QB. Ask Jamarcus Russell.

Well, the same questions could have been asked back than as well of the 1998 Colts. In fact, you can ask it anytime a QB gets taken atop the first round. The real questions is, do you believe Luck will be that good?

In 1998 would you rather have had the Bills Roster -which was far better than this years Bills- or the Colts?

With a Franchise QB the Colts ended up being the winningest teams this century while also winning a SB while the Bills have not made the Playoffs during same time span. If anyone knows the value of a top QB its the Colts.

Last season was like a gift from God. An aging Manning goes down, the Colts -who were contenders every year before that- tank the season, and here they are drafting the best player to come our since John fuc*ing Elway and you are telling me you would rather be the Bills?

This really is a no brainer. Chances are that over the next 12 Years Colts will win more games than the Bills. Their future looks a lot brighter! This is a Pass First; QB over everything else league.

Currently, there are 3-5 Amazing QB, and all of them have helped their teams Contend for a Championship. Can you name 1 HOF Caliber QB thats currently playing that has been on a loosing team for at least a 3 year stretch? What about a 2 year stretch? Doest happen.

Great QB = Playoffs -bare minimum

[Mike]

This topic is just plain dumb. There isn't team in the nfl that would purposely tank a season for any player or any reason. Get real.

Your very naive to think that. Very!
Theres a reason why certain sports have draft lotteries!

Sure the players and coaches may play hard, but ownership looks for whats in the a teams best interest long term. The Colts were expected to contend last year but after the Manning injury what did they do? They started C. Painter. lol. They gave zero effort in finding a suitable QB. That whole off season, they knew Payton was injured and had neck surgeries, etc. That year there were many veteran QBs available in FA and draft who were far better than Painter. Yet, in the end they did nothing.

Psychologically the team mailed in the season before it started. Their game plans stunk, they played backup, etc.....

They Sucked for Luck! Hell, even with Payton they only won 1SB and they knew that without him they were not contenders. They knew that they would not win an SB! Even with Payton it would have been hard. So, they did the most logical thing. They sacrificed a LOST Season for the chance to draft the best QB prospect of the last 30 years!

They gave up Nothing with an opportunity to Gain Everything!

[Mike]

I would trade our entire roster, coaches, owner, cleaning crew, and stadium for Andrew Luck. Colts

Isnt that funny? Luck being worth so much! But what did the Colts give up to get the BEST QB Prospect of the last 30 years? A LOST Season.

*I only wish the Bills were smart enough to do this sort of thing *

[Extremebillsfan247]

Well, the same questions could have been asked back than as well of the 1998 Colts. In fact, you can ask it anytime a QB gets taken atop the first round. The real questions is, do you believe Luck will be that good?

In 1998 would you rather have had the Bills Roster -which was far better than this years Bills- or the Colts?

With a Franchise QB the Colts ended up being the winningest teams this century while also winning a SB while the Bills have not made the Playoffs during same time span. If anyone knows the value of a top QB its the Colts.

Last season was like a gift from God. An aging Manning goes down, the Colts -who were contenders every year before that- tank the season, and here they are drafting the best player to come our since John fuc*ing Elway and you are telling me you would rather be the Bills?

This really is a no brainer. Chances are that over the next 12 Years Colts will win more games than the Bills. Their future looks a lot brighter! This is a Pass First; QB over everything else league.

Currently, there are 3-5 Amazing QB, and all of them have helped their teams Contend for a Championship. Can you name 1 HOF Caliber QB thats currently playing that has been on a loosing team for at least a 3 year stretch? What about a 2 year stretch? Doest happen.

Great QB = Playoffs -bare minimum
How many playoff appearances have the Rams made since drafting Bradford? Cam Newton had one of the best rookie seasons of any QB in NFL history last year. He played better than Fitzpatrick did and Carolina still finished 6-10. What happened there? Sometimes it takes more than just a good QB for a team to win, moral of that story. Luck is doing well in preseason. Everyone knows the preseason doesn't mean anything. If the Colts win more than 5 games this year, I'll give Luck some respect. That's the best I can do. He's a rookie. JMO

[Mike]

How many playoff appearances have the Rams made since drafting Bradford? Cam Newton had one of the best rookie seasons of any QB in NFL history last year. He played better than Fitzpatrick did and Carolina still finished 6-10. What happened there? Sometimes it takes more than just a good QB for a team to win, moral of that story. Luck is doing well in preseason. Everyone knows the preseason doesn't mean anything. If the Colts win more than 5 games this year, I'll give Luck some respect. That's the best I can do. He's a rookie. JMO

Cam as good as he has looked is not a HOF Caliber QB at this point in his career. Bradford had a nice rookie season and we injured last season...but he is no HOFer!

Careers are not created in one year or even two. They are sustained year by year via consistency and domination! What this means is that having a HOF Caliber QB is something that takes time to develop. Cam, Bradford, Luck, RG3 all have the opportunity and natural talents, now it is up to them to take that next step in their development but they are not there yet!

When they get there -and not all of them will- they will take their teams to those higher levels as well. Their respective team's potential and ceiling will be much higher than other great teams that are a QB away. Case in point, would you rather be the 2001 Ravens that won 1SB or the Pats that won 3 [outside of QB Ravens were more talented]?

Since 92-93 season, there have been only 2 teams that won a SB that did not have a Potential HOF QB, ONLY 2 in last 20 years! Out of those winning QB most were 1st round QBs [and most of those went #1 overall] followed by 2nd round QB and then everyone else.

Now during last 20 how many teams have been on the other side of the spectrum, being 1QB away from a SB or a Dynasty? Many

[Mike]

Chances of winning a SB without a HOF type QB are slim! Very Slim! You must be extremely dominant in all other areas like the 2001 Ravens or the Bucs. In the last 20 Years only those 2 teams have won a SB that did not have a Top QB. Only 2 out of 20, thats 10% chance that a Great Teams wins a SB without having a Great QB!!!

[Mike]

I will bring up this thread at the beginning of each month to see if and how opinions change. After watching football for 1mo, would you prefer the Bills or Colts roster?

[Mouldsie]

Indy without question

[gebobs]

I will bring up this thread at the beginning of each month to see if and how opinions change. After watching football for 1mo, would you prefer the Bills or Colts roster?I just noticed I never voted. But my vote is clear. Indy. That team has hope. The Bills don't even have a prayer.

[jlgarsh]

I voted for Indy too...a good QB can make mediocre players Pro Bowlers...look at Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc...Their top offensive targets get hurt (Colston, Dallas Clark, among others), and next thing you know, a Jacob Tamme or Devery Henderson are putting up almost the same numbers! It all starts with the QB, and right now we don't have one.

[Mike]

I voted for Indy too...a good QB can make mediocre players Pro Bowlers...look at Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc...Their top offensive targets get hurt (Colston, Dallas Clark, among others), and next thing you know, a Jacob Tamme or Devery Henderson are putting up almost the same numbers! It all starts with the QB, and right now we don't have one.

Thats it in a nutshell

[k-oneputt]

Shouldn't even be a question.

There are only a few franchise qb's around and in today's league you are not winning a Super Bowl without one.
You can always fill in the other positions around the qb after.
I would trade every pick in the 2013 draft to get in position to draft the qb next season.

[Mr. Pink]

You know who's roster I would take over both of them?

Washington's.

[Bill Cody]

You know who's roster I would take over both of them?

Washington's.

but...but...but...they were bad last year and they gave up a boat load of picks to draft RG3.....nevermind