Other than the obvious upgrade at DE....

[YardRat]

...How much did the team actually improve it's level of talent from the end of the 2011 season to the beginning of 2012?

[better days]

...How much did the team actually improve it's level of talent from the end of the 2011 season to the beginning of 2012?

Well, they drafted a LT that will start from day 1. A CB that will start from day 1 & may be the best CB on the team. Added a WR with SPEED. In addition I think some guys like Moats are better players today than when the season ended. I would say overall a pretty good upgrade for one off season.

[GingerP]

I think in general they will be overall better on defense. The improved DL play will help defend the run game and should lead to more turnovers.

I worry about the offense, though. Teams are going to challenge the Bills to get the ball downfield, making them control the ball and play efficient. The team knew they needed an upgrade at WR, as evidenced by the attempt to sign Meachem, but where is that upgrade? Unless Donald Jones makes a big jump the Bills lack explosive weapons in the passing game. Defenses are going to bring up a S to stop the run and flood the short zones with defenders, can the Bills make them pay?

[buffalobillsfan95]

• there's more depth at offensive tackle
• upgrade at cb (it's hard to be worse then last year)
•adding another safety that's looking capable
•possible back up qb with t.jax, that's if he learns the play book quick enough to cut pigpen soon
•more weapons with Dickerson and b smith. I only say smith because we didn't use him correctly last year. Aka more plays then 3rd and 2 situations.
•special teams looks a lot better already, potter making them have to go 80 and good returners
• and most importantly, we actually have confidants and 100% expect to be good enough at least for a wildcard

[ParanoidAndroid]

From the END of last season? The return of Eric Wood, Fred Jackson, and Kyle Williams along with a few others from IR might help a little?

[YardRat]

Just to play devil's advocate...


• there's more depth at offensive tackle

Is there? Glenn could crash and burn...he's going to see things this Sunday that he's never seen before, early and often. How will that affect the outcome of the game?


• upgrade at cb (it's hard to be worse then last year)

I think Gilmore is going to be a stud, but he is still a rookie. How costly will his growing pains be early in the season? Brooks is hurt, McGee hobbled and on eggshells. We may be facing the Jets with 4 CB's...Gilmore, Williams, McKelvin and Rogers. (FWIW, Gilmore and especially Brooks are my favorite draft picks).


•adding another safety that's looking capable

Is Howell a better back-up than Scott at safety, and how much is he really going to see the field anyway? Hell, he might be one of the inactives.


•possible back up qb with t.jax, that's if he learns the play book quick enough to cut pigpen soon

Possible. That's a big 'if'. Pragmatically speaking, we're starting this season with the status quo from last year---starter Fitz, back-up Thigs.


•more weapons with Dickerson and b smith. I only say smith because we didn't use him correctly last year. Aka more plays then 3rd and 2 situations.

Will either see the field enough to have a positive impact against the Jets?


•special teams looks a lot better already, potter making them have to go 80 and good returners

Granted. From the reverse angle, zero returns = zero turnovers on returns.


• and most importantly, we actually have confidants and 100% expect to be good enough at least for a wildcard

Confidence is a huge factor, but if they struggle against the Jets that can be eliminated quickly and effectively.

[mrbojanglezs]

Players they have are more suited for 4-3 so switching D is an improvement. Having a healthy kyle Williams and a second year dareus. Along with what others said

[buffalobillsfan95]

Just to play devil's advocate...



Is there? Glenn could crash and burn...he's going to see things this Sunday that he's never seen before, early and often. How will that affect the outcome of the game?



I think Gilmore is going to be a stud, but he is still a rookie. How costly will his growing pains be early in the season? Brooks is hurt, McGee hobbled and on eggshells. We may be facing the Jets with 4 CB's...Gilmore, Williams, McKelvin and Rogers. (FWIW, Gilmore and especially Brooks are my favorite draft picks).



Is Howell a better back-up than Scott at safety, and how much is he really going to see the field anyway? Hell, he might be one of the inactives.



Possible. That's a big 'if'. Pragmatically speaking, we're starting this season with the status quo from last year---starter Fitz, back-up Thigs.



Will either see the field enough to have a positive impact against the Jets?



Granted. From the reverse angle, zero returns = zero turnovers on returns.



Confidence is a huge factor, but if they struggle against the Jets that can be eliminated quickly and effectively.


Well all your disagreements are also what ifs. We don't actually know our real weakness and strong points until we start playing real games.

What if Glenn becomes a elite OT? What if Gilmore, Williams, mckelvin, and Rogers play great and we have the best pass defense? What if we only needed a good back up safety? What if t.jax becomes great? What if Dickerson and smith are vital parts to success to a great season?

As long as we seriously attempt to upgrade our talent every year, which we have. Then only time will tell if it was a correct upgrade. They believe they have there back up in t.jax, they believe there cb are good enough.

It all goes back to what if. This could be a 2-14 season but also a 13-3. We made the nessicary changes to put a better team out but only real games will reveal the truth, what if my aunt had ball? Would she be my uncle?

Im tired of what if, and ready for the season to start haha

[DraftBoy]

Well, they drafted a LT that will start from day 1. A CB that will start from day 1 & may be the best CB on the team. Added a WR with SPEED. In addition I think some guys like Moats are better players today than when the season ended. I would say overall a pretty good upgrade for one off season.

That doesn't mean they are improvements. We need to stop operating under the assumption that rookies are improvements simply because they were drafted high and are starting.

[better days]

That doesn't mean they are improvements. We need to stop operating under the assumption that rookies are improvements simply because they were drafted high and are starting.

Explain to me why someone the Bills have scouted, drafted & chose to start should not be assumed to be an improvment over what they replaced.

[DraftBoy]

Explain to me why someone the Bills have scouted, drafted & chose to start should not be assumed to be an improvment over what they replaced.

Mike Williams.

Busts and early struggles happen every year. Teams make bad picks and scouts get some wrong, and they hit home runs on others. Assuming a player will be good simply because he's a high pick is a recipe for disaster.

[YardRat]

Explain to me why someone the Bills have scouted, drafted & chose to start should not be assumed to be an improvment over what they replaced.

Mike Williams.

[better days]

Mike Williams.

Busts and early struggles happen every year. Teams make bad picks and scouts get some wrong, and they hit home runs on others. Assuming a player will be good simply because he's a high pick is a recipe for disaster.

Well, Mike Williams was NOT scouted or Drafted by this front office. Name me a player the Bills have drafted & was named a starter under Nix that has proven to be a bust or a player let go by Nix that went on to play better for another team than the player the Bills replaced him with.

I have total faith in Nix & his scouts to get the best talent available on this team.

[DraftBoy]

Well, Mike Williams was NOT scouted or Drafted by this front office. Name me a player the Bills have drafted & was named a starter under Nix that has proven to be a bust or a player let go by Nix that went on to play better for another team than the player the Bills replaced him with.

I have total faith in Nix & his scouts to get the best talent available on this team.

That's a ridiculous excuse and is not at all logical. We just dumped three rookies from this past draft class alone. Carrington, and Troup came while Nix was here.

I get it you want them to succeed, hell we all do, but to assume they are automatic upgrades is both a mistake and wrong.

[YardRat]

Mike Williams.


Mike Williams.

Ooooh. Beat me to it by mere seconds.

[better days]

That's a ridiculous excuse and is not at all logical. We just dumped three rookies from this past draft class alone. Carrington, and Troup came while Nix was here.

I get it you want them to succeed, hell we all do, but to assume they are automatic upgrades is both a mistake and wrong.

This post is ridiculous. Not every player drafted will be good enough to ever be a starter in the NFL. The fact that three draft picks did not make this team, and that some players drafted previously were cut, speaks to the fact how much Nix has improved the talent of this team in less than 3 years.

Every player Nix has drafted & was named a starter by Chan has been better than the player he replaced. Therefore to assume a player drafted by Nix this year & named a starter by Chan is an upgrade over what they replaced is not a mistake or wrong.

- - - Updated - - -


Ooooh. Beat me to it by mere seconds.

Yeah, he was wrong before you were.

[kingJofNYC]

what's the point of discussing this right now? most of the upgrades were done via the draft, DE aside. so you really can't discuss the topic without speculating on rookie performance. we'll know by the end of sept. i think it's fair to say that the wr wasn't really upgraded talent wise, yeah they added graham but he's not a game changer in year 1 if ever.

[YardRat]

Every player Nix has drafted & was named a starter by Chan has been better than the player he replaced.

How many of the projected current starters have been drafted by Nix and named a starter by Chan?

Glenn on the offensive side of the ball.
Defense = Dareus, Sheppard, Moats, Williams and Gilmore.

Did I miss anybody?

[better days]

what's the point of discussing this right now? most of the upgrades were done via the draft, DE aside. so you really can't discuss the topic without speculating on rookie performance. we'll know by the end of sept. i think it's fair to say that the wr wasn't really upgraded talent wise, yeah they added graham but he's not a game changer in year 1 if ever.

Agreed, but if Graham is on the field, defenses will not be able to play so tight because they will have to respect his speed so he should help this year even if he does not put up great numbers.

[better days]

How many of the projected current starters have been drafted by Nix and named a starter by Chan?

Glenn on the offensive side of the ball.
Defense = Dareus, Sheppard, Moats, Williams and Gilmore.

Did I miss anybody?

Not that I can think of. And I can't remember who Mike Williams replaced, but as big a bust as Williams was, he was probably better than who he replaced.

[Goobylal]

Outside of the DE's (which are a huge addition), did the team improve its talent from the end of 2011 to beginning of 2012? This is a serious question? Getting Wood, Jackson, Kyle and Urbik back alone are huge. Having Wanny as DC is huge. Going from having half the LB'ing corp being a liability to actually having 3 good starting LB's will be huge. Glenn already looks like the best LT the Bills have had since Peters' 2007 season. Adding speed in Graham will be beneficial, once he gets more involved in the passing game. And Potter getting touchbacks after scores will be big.

[YardRat]

Not that I can think of. And I can't remember who Mike Williams replaced, but as big a bust as Williams was, he was probably better than who he replaced.

John Fina and Jonas Jennings were the OT's in 2001.

[YardRat]

Outside of the DE's (which are a huge addition), did the team improve its talent from the end of 2011 to beginning of 2012? This is a serious question? Getting Wood, Jackson, Kyle and Urbik back alone are huge. Having Wanny as DC is huge. Going from having half the LB'ing corp being a liability to actually having 3 good starting LB's will be huge. Glenn already looks like the best LT the Bills have had since Peters' 2007 season. And adding speed in Graham will be beneficial, once he gets more involved in the passing game.

I disagree with some of your assessment.
Not impressed with Wanny.
The LBers don't look like an upgrade, especially when one of the starters went from sure-fire cut to first string.
Saying Glenn is the best LT since Peters isn't saying much, and he really has yet to prove he's better than Hairston or Bell. (We'll know more about that on Sunday)

[Goobylal]

I disagree with some of your assessment.
Not impressed with Wanny.
The LBers don't look like an upgrade, especially when one of the starters went from sure-fire cut to first string.
Saying Glenn is the best LT since Peters isn't saying much, and he really has yet to prove he's better than Hairston or Bell. (We'll know more about that on Sunday)
You're not impressed with Wanny? You were impressed with Edwards? And you think that what you saw from the defense, which was pretty good, in pre-season is what you'll see during the regular season?
Moats was a "sure-fire cut" in the 3-4. I'll take a good starting group of 3 LB's to a bad group of 4 LB's.
Worse comes to worst, Hairston can start at LT.

[better days]

I disagree with some of your assessment.
Not impressed with Wanny.
The LBers don't look like an upgrade, especially when one of the starters went from sure-fire cut to first string.
Saying Glenn is the best LT since Peters isn't saying much, and he really has yet to prove he's better than Hairston or Bell. (We'll know more about that on Sunday)

Well, Glenn has outplayed Bell in preseason. By a lot. In fact Bell has been so bad, he may not start on opening day despite all the money the Eagles paid him.

The LBs don't look like an upgrade? After a game is played this year, I think you will need to reevaluate that statement.

[YardRat]

You're not impressed with Wanny?

No.


You were impressed with Edwards?

Hell no. I've been on the bandwagon to can him from the moment he was hired almost.


And you think that what you saw from the defense, which was pretty good, in pre-season is what you'll see during the regular season?

The defense was 'OK' in the preseason IMO, not pretty good (granted, it is preseason). Still see some trouble against the run, on third down, and if the front four don't get to the QB we are screwed. That's what I saw.


Moats was a "sure-fire cut" in the 3-4. I'll take a good starting group of 3 LB's to a bad group of 4 LB's.

I disagree. Moats transition from 34 to 43 is one of the less mild surprises of this camp, IMO.


Worse comes to worst, Hairston can start at LT.

It shouldn't be the case...if he's the better LT right now, that's where he should be. It's about winning one game at a time, and that starts this Sunday against the Jets.

[YardRat]

The LBs don't look like an upgrade? After a game is played this year, I think you will need to reevaluate that statement.

I hope so and I'm rooting for that to happen.

[Goobylal]

No.



Hell no. I've been on the bandwagon to can him from the moment he was hired almost.
Okay, even if you're not impressed with Wanny, a "No" to a "Hell no" is an upgrade, wouldn't you say?

The defense was 'OK' in the preseason IMO, not pretty good (granted, it is preseason). Still see some trouble against the run, on third down, and if the front four don't get to the QB we are screwed. That's what I saw.
The defense was better than "okay" while playing vanilla defense (no blitzing). That's why your being unimpressed with Wanny is premature.

I disagree. Moats transition from 34 to 43 is one of the less mild surprises of this camp, IMO.
Again, had the Bills stayed with the 3-4, Moats was probably a goner. With the move to the 4-3, everyone was given a clean slate, and Moats carpe'd the diem.

It shouldn't be the case...if he's the better LT right now, that's where he should be. It's about winning one game at a time, and that starts this Sunday against the Jets.
Glenn is the better LT and as a result is the starter. What I was saying that at-worst, they go back to Hairston.

And yes, it's "one game at a time." Bring on the Jets!

[better days]

It shouldn't be the case...if he's the better LT right now, that's where he should be. It's about winning one game at a time, and that starts this Sunday against the Jets.

With Pears injured, Hairston will be forced to play RT against the Jets. I doubt he would have played LT over Glenn anyway.

[Goobylal]

With Pears injured, Hairston will be forced to play RT against the Jets. I doubt he would have played LT over Glenn anyway.
Hairston should ultimately be an excellent RT. I figured he'd get the nod next year, rather than having a rookie LT and him, a 2nd year RT, starting on the OL together. But the future might already be here.

[cookie G]

Explain to me why someone the Bills have scouted, drafted & chose to start should not be assumed to be an improvment over what they replaced.

I don't know who Troup was better than anyone we had previously.
Carrington isn't better than anyone he replaced.
Aaron Williams hasn't shown to be better than Florence, and only marginally better than a one legged McGee.
Sheppard is a bit of a tough call. I like him against the run, but he looks like a liability in pass coverage. That isn't much different than the guy he replaced, Poz. (and no, I wouldn't have given Poz the money he got from Jax).
Spiller didn't improve over Jackson, but that's a different situation. He's really more of an additional weapon, rather than a replacement.

With Spiller and Sheppard aside, you are talking about 2 2nd round picks and a 3rd round pick, (maybe 2), that didn't really improve over the guy they replaced, or were intended to replace.

That's out of only 3 drafts.

His results are mixed, at best.

[EDS]

Every player Nix has drafted & was named a starter by Chan has been better than the player he replaced. Therefore to assume a player drafted by Nix this year & named a starter by Chan is an upgrade over what they replaced is not a mistake or wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

I do not believe this is a true statement. Poz is and was better than Sheppard. Maybe Sheppard takes a step forward, but based on his rookie season and pre-season I have seen nothing to tell me he is better than Poz or will be as good - and it is not like Poz is Patrick Willis either.

And lets all hope that Glenn is better than Bell!

Yeah, he was wrong before you were.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Well, they drafted a LT that will start from day 1. A CB that will start from day 1 & may be the best CB on the team. Added a WR with SPEED. In addition I think some guys like Moats are better players today than when the season ended. I would say overall a pretty good upgrade for one off season. For the record, I didn't like the T.J. Graham pick, I thought the Bills panicked there. I hope it works out though.

[PromoTheRobot]

That doesn't mean they are improvements. We need to stop operating under the assumption that rookies are improvements simply because they were drafted high and are starting.

Ha ha ha...and yet every media pundit is citing the two rookies drafted to the Patriots (Hightower and C. Jones) as proof they will have a top defense again.

PTR

[better days]

I don't know who Troup was better than anyone we had previously.
Carrington isn't better than anyone he replaced.
Aaron Williams hasn't shown to be better than Florence, and only marginally better than a one legged McGee.
Sheppard is a bit of a tough call. I like him against the run, but he looks like a liability in pass coverage. That isn't much different than the guy he replaced, Poz. (and no, I wouldn't have given Poz the money he got from Jax).
Spiller didn't improve over Jackson, but that's a different situation. He's really more of an additional weapon, rather than a replacement.

With Spiller and Sheppard aside, you are talking about 2 2nd round picks and a 3rd round pick, (maybe 2), that didn't really improve over the guy they replaced, or were intended to replace.

That's out of only 3 drafts.

His results are mixed, at best.

Troup was injured pretty much at the get go. Neither he or Carrington were named starters that I remember. Williams in his rookie year was better than Florence & will only get better. When McGee is healthy, I doubt he starts over Williams. NO TEAM hits on every pick.

I'm saying if Nix drafts a player & Chan makes him a starter, that player will be better than the player he replaced. Like I said before not every player drafted will be a starter in the NFL. That goes for every team.

[Goobylal]

For the record, I didn't like the T.J. Graham pick, I thought the Bills panicked there. I hope it works out though.
How do you figure they panicked?

[Extremebillsfan247]

How do you figure they panicked?
Lets review the events that unfolded in the 3rd round of the most recent draft. Why did they leapfrog 1 pick to draft a receiver who in all likely hood would have still been on the board at 71? They swapped picks with Washington who had the 69th pick overall to move ahead of Jacksonville who drafted a punter. Jacksonville wasn't going to draft him, they took Blackmon in the first.

The next receiver in line after Graham went 14 picks later, Mohamed Sanu to the Bengals. I said it here when it happened, and I have yet to see any substantial evidence to prove my suspicion wrong. Graham may turn into a really good receiver, but I still think they could have stayed put and got him. I'm not the only one who thought that when it happened either. JMO

[Goobylal]

Lets review the events that unfolded in the 3rd round of the most recent draft. Why did they leapfrog 1 pick to draft a receiver who in all likely hood would have still been on the board at 71? They swapped picks with Washington who had the 69th pick overall to move ahead of Jacksonville who drafted a punter. Jacksonville wasn't going to draft him, they took Blackmon in the first.

The next receiver in line after Graham went 14 picks later, Mohamed Sanu to the Bengals. I said it here when it happened, and I have yet to see any substantial evidence to prove my suspicion wrong. Graham may turn into a really good receiver, but I still think they could have stayed put and got him. I'm not the only one who thought that when it happened either. JMO
If anything, the Bills made a wise trade-up and the Jags, who picked right after them, panicked and took a punter, telling me they had their sights set on Graham. The guy the Jags picked could have been had in round 5 for sure.

[Extremebillsfan247]

If anything, the Bills made a wise trade-up and the Jags, who picked right after them, panicked and took a punter, telling me they had their sights set on Graham. The guy the Jags picked could have been had in round 5 for sure.
Why would they draft Graham after taking Blackmon in the first? If Jacksonville were that hard up for receivers they would have taken another one in the 2nd. Jacksonville drafting Graham would have made no sense. There is a reason another receiver wasn't drafted until 14 picks later. All the better talent at the position was taken in the first 2 rounds. JMO

[YardRat]

If anything, the Bills made a wise trade-up and the Jags, who picked right after them, panicked and took a punter, telling me they had their sights set on Graham. The guy the Jags picked could have been had in round 5 for sure.

I have a hard time believing that an NFL front office would be so unprepared as to put themselves in a position to 'panic' during a draft based on the prior pick. Let's not forget, the biggest criticism of the Graham pick at the time was that he wasn't on anybody's radar to be chosen that high, let alone at all by some. If anybody panicked at that point, is was Buffalo, because they apparently believed if they didn't make the move the Jags were going to take him. Could that have been the case? Absolutely...but then nobody really panicked at all.

[casdhf]

Glenn wasn't exactly handed the job. He beat out Hairston, who many of us have liked all along.

[YardRat]

Glenn wasn't exactly handed the job. He beat out Hairston, who many of us have liked all along.

I don't know how anybody can come to that conclusion. Glenn was, by far, handed the vast majority of the reps at LT and there really was no competition involved. Hairston in no way got his fair share of reps at LT to even consider competing.

[better days]

I don't know how anybody can come to that conclusion. Glenn was, by far, handed the vast majority of the reps at LT and there really was no competition involved. Hairston in no way got his fair share of reps at LT to even consider competing.

Agreed. The injury to Pears forced hairston to RT so he had no chance to compete for the LT job. It is great to have a guy like Hairston on the team though, the OL does not miss a beat with him in there.

[The Jokeman]

I think Donald Jones is going to shock some fans this year. As it's his vital 3rd year inwhich most WRs breakout. I wouldn't be shocked seeing him get 55 catches and 700 yards and maybe 4 TDs.

[The Jokeman]

Glenn wasn't exactly handed the job. He beat out Hairston, who many of us have liked all along.

No Glenn was handed the job when Pears wasn't able to stay healthy and we had to put someone at RT. So Hairston didn't get many reps at LT. That said I don't mind having Hairston as a backup swing LT/RT but do have issues with Glenn starting at LT.

[ServoBillieves]

I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread on my day off, so I'll just give my 2 cents.

- A full offseason for last years rookies means more experience both in game and in learning the play books.
- This season's rookies get field experience with the playbook, coaches, facilities and chemistry with teammates
- A solid draft class on paper. A starting CB for our division and starting LT with a good vet backup, and some good depth at WR and CB, possibly OLB if Bradham pans out.
- Coaches get more time with the players.
- Dorin adds the H-Back feature, could be used for trick plays and can also block
-