Potter vs. Folk - tale of the tape

[stuckincincy]

I still can't see why BUF is chewing up a roster spot with Potter. The '11 rule changes made it such that touchbacks are a pretty common thing. Running it out with a 2 man wedge is iffy.

AFAIK, Potter had no preseason fg attempts. I have no idea if he is effective there. And since they seem enamored of Potter, well, the Bills still have to score to use this "weapon."

Folk: 8 kos, 6 touchbacks. Potter: 3 kos, 2 touchbacks, 1 onside kick.

1s qtr:
J.Potter kicks 70 yards from BUF 35 to NYJ -5. J.McKnight to NYJ 19 for 24 yards (C.White).
N.Folk kicks 64 yards from NYJ 35 to BUF 1. L.McKelvin, Touchback.

2nd qtr:
N.Folk kicks 65 yards from NYJ 35 to end zone, Touchback.
N.Folk kicks 65 yards from NYJ 35 to end zone, Touchback.
N.Folk kicks 65 yards from NYJ 35 to end zone, Touchback.
N.Folk kicks 65 yards from NYJ 35 to end zone, Touchback.

3rd qtr:
N.Folk kicks 65 yards from NYJ 35 to end zone, Touchback.
N.Folk kicks 64 yards from NYJ 35 to BUF 1. L.McKelvin to BUF 23 for 22 yards (J.Bush).
J.Potter kicks 65 yards from BUF 35 to end zone, Touchback.

4th qtr:
J.Potter kicks 65 yards from BUF 35 to end zone, Touchback.
N.Folk kicks 73 yards from NYJ 35 to BUF -8. L.McKelvin to BUF 18 for 26 yards (I.Trufant).
J.Potter kicks onside 14 yards from BUF 35 to BUF 49. T.Tebow (didn't try to advance) to BUF 49 for no gain.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/playbyplay/NFL_20120909_BUF@NYJ

[Michael82]

I still believe that the plan is for Lindell to work with Potter and teach him how to handle the Buffalo weather for field goals and then next year they will cut Lindell and Potter will be the starting Kicker.

[Mahdi]

I still believe that the plan is for Lindell to work with Potter and teach him how to handle the Buffalo weather for field goals and then next year they will cut Lindell and Potter will be the starting Kicker.

Is Lindell aware of the plan?

[Jan Reimers]

Is Lindell aware of the plan?

Yeah, but he thinks it's one of those 5 year plans.

[GingerP]

Is Lindell aware of the plan?

Yeah, but he isn't worried about it because he has seen how Bills' draft choices develop.

[jdaltroy5]

I remember reading a stat last year about starting field position. Our opponent's starting field position was the 29 yard line. If Potter can push them back 9 yards every time, then he's a much more valuable spot on the roster than a 5th string CB or LB that won't even see the field.

[Michael82]

I remember reading a stat last year about starting field position. Our opponent's starting field position was the 29 yard line. If Potter can push them back 9 yards every time, then he's a much more valuable spot on the roster than a 5th string CB or LB that won't even see the field.

Exactly! Starting at the 20-yard line is a much better thing that keeping an extra WR for special teams.

[Michael82]

Is Lindell aware of the plan?

lol....probably not. But all training camp Potter was practicing field goals and actually did a pretty good job, especially with the long field goals. Honestly, I was shocked that the team didnt use him in the preseason for field goals.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, but he isn't worried about it because he has seen how Bills' draft choices develop.

:rofl:

[zone]

What is the point of this thread, because Folk kicked touchbacks too we shouldn't have kept Potter? I just never understand any of SIC's threads or posts for that matter.

[stuckincincy]

What is the point of this thread, because Folk kicked touchbacks too we shouldn't have kept Potter? I just never understand any of SIC's threads or posts for that matter.

You don't understand roster limitations. For example, they might have had Graham active against NYJ. I don't buy the "not ready" bunk. Speed draws and peels off coverage.

The general idea is that under today's rules, every teams' kickers rack up the touchbacks. And if it is taken out, the dilution of force with the 2 man wedge rule looms.

Wasting a spot for a ko "specialist" is inane. If he can kick fgs - which the brain trust didn't allow him to do in preseason - fine. Then show Lindell the door.

[jdaltroy5]

You don't understand roster limitations. For example, they might have had Graham active against NYJ. I don't buy the "not ready" bunk. Speed draws and peels off coverage.

The general idea is that under today's rules, every teams' kickers rack up the touchbacks. And if it is taken out, the dilution of force with the 2 man wedge rule looms.

Wasting a spot for a ko "specialist" is inane. If he can kick fgs - which the brain trust didn't allow him to do in preseason - fine. Then show Lindell the door.

CJ is FASTER than TJ. Jones, Nelson, and Martin are all within .15 seconds of his 40 time.

Graham wouldn't have made one bit of difference in that game.

The weren't going to see Graham come into the game, **** their pants, and then go and line up on the goal line.

They face fast guys every week.

[stuckincincy]

CJ is FASTER than TJ. Jones, Nelson, and Martin are all within .15 seconds of his 40 time.

Graham wouldn't have made one bit of difference in that game.

The weren't going to see Graham come into the game, **** their pants, and then go and line up on the goal line.

They face fast guys every week.

You stick a Spiller out at a wr position, you are telegraphing big time to the opposing defense. I continue to shake my head at the lack of smarts about basic football strategy prevalent here.

[jdaltroy5]

You stick a Spiller out at a wr position, you are telegraphing big time to the opposing defense. I continue to shake my head at the lack of basic football strategy prevalent here.
Shake your head all you want, you still don't get it.

You want defenses to be scared of our speed right?

Then you say not to stick Spiller out there because it telegraphs too much.

THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

You WANT to telegraph because it backs the defense up right?

[stuckincincy]

Shake your head all you want, you still don't get it.

You want defenses to be scared of our speed right?

Then you say not to stick Spiller out there because it telegraphs too much.

THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

You WANT to telegraph because it backs the defense up right?

Good Lord - you really have no idea of the difference between a wr, speed or not, between a wrs suite of moves - poor or not, they have them, vs. a fast rb. You take that halfback out of the backfield, my defensive line knows that your qb is on an island. You have generally relieved my DEs of contain responsibility. I send in a blitzer and I bet I can beat the FB...if he's there. I know that you are likely to toss a quick pass, and not let speed get its' due.

[jdaltroy5]

Good Lord - you really have no idea of the difference between a wr, speed or not, between a wrs suite of moves - poor or not, they have them, vs. a fast rb. You take that halfback out of the backfield, my defensive line knows that your qb is on an island. You have generally relieved my DEs of contain responsibility. I send in a blitzer and I bet I can beat the FB...if he's there. I know that you are likely to toss a quick pass, and not let speed get its' due.

Wow.

It's a damn shame that we only have one RB isn't it?

If you're worried about blitzing, then toss another TE in. Put a FB in or one of your two OTHER RBs to sit back and block.

If it was as simple as you're making it out to be, then NO RB would EVER split out wide because it would mean an automatic sack.

The coach, who watches Graham practice every play and sits with him in the film room, says he's not ready.

Some asshat on a message board (who clearly doesn't understand the importance of field position) says he is.

Hmmm... who do you think has a better idea of the situation?

Graham doesn't know the offense yet, plain and simple. WR is a very important position in Chan's offense and the guy needs to know it inside and out. They have to be able to diagnose whether the D is playing man or zone and possibly alter his route based on that. He needs to know of the D is blitzing so he can break off into a hot route. If he doesn't, Fitz is expecting him to be somewhere that he's not and he could chuck right into the other team's chest because his WR ran the wrong route (Fitz does that enough without the help of the WRs). He needs to know the terminology so if he calls an audible on the line, the WR knows what to change to.

The guy wasn't ready. Him playing wouldn't have made any difference in the world.

Get over it.

[stuckincincy]

Hey...you want to hang your hat on the Bills' film study, ask them why their astute analyses have the team devoid of playoff appearances for over a decade.

It does not take digesting a 300 page concocted playbook to spiff up a wr who has played years in H.S. and college. Graham can run in a straight line, his speed pulls coverage. Don't you get that? See also Don Beebe.

Football is a four act play that's been running for over a hundred years.

Get over it, yourself. Save your pithy insults for your family.

[jdaltroy5]

Hey...you want to hang your hat on the Bills' film study, ask them why their astute analyses have the team devoid of playoff appearances for over a decade.

It does not take digesting a 300 page concocted playbook to spiff up a wr who has played years in H.S. and college. Graham can run in a straight line, his speed pulls coverage. Don't you get that? See also Don Beebe.

Football is a four act play that's been running for over a hundred years.

Get over it, yourself. Save your pithy insults for your family.
Ok, so now they just need a guy that can run in a straight line? Make up your mind. An hour ago, they needed a guy that had "moves" that CJ didn't have.

CJ can run in a straight line. Faster than Graham as a matter of fact.

[stuckincincy]

Ok, so now they just need a guy that can run in a straight line? Make up your mind. An hour ago, they needed a guy that had "moves" that CJ didn't have.

CJ can run in a straight line. Faster than Graham as a matter of fact.

Your reading comprehension is poor.

I'm done chatting with you - and I'm quite sure you will declare victory, call me a loser, a coward, or some such and collect one of those trophies for participation.

You have little idea about how discussion works.

Right?

[jdaltroy5]

Your reading comprehension is poor.

I'm done chatting with you - and I'm quite sure you will declare victory, call me a loser, a coward, or some such and collect one of those trophies for participation.

You have little idea about how discussion works.

Right?
No, I know how discussion works. It generally doesn't work when one person changes his mind to suit his argument.

"We need a guy with moves and speed!"

"Graham doesn't know the moves yet."

"Who cares? All we need is a guy that can run fast!"

"CJ is faster."

"But CJ doesn't have the same moves. Because we need a guy that has moves and speed!"

Rinse. Repeat.

[Mouldsie]

CJ is FASTER than TJ. Jones, Nelson, and Martin are all within .15 seconds of his 40 time.

Graham wouldn't have made one bit of difference in that game.

The weren't going to see Graham come into the game, **** their pants, and then go and line up on the goal line.

They face fast guys every week.

I find it hard to believe Martin is that close.

And .15 seconds is significant. It's at least a step and a half


I think he has a valid reason to question whether Potter helps our team when it takes away a player who can effect the game for more plays. I think it's just as fair to question Lindell's importance if he cant kick-off well.

[jdaltroy5]

I find it hard to believe Martin is that close.

And .15 seconds is significant. It's at least a step and a half


I think he has a valid reason to question whether Potter helps our team when it takes away a player who can effect the game for more plays. I think it's just as fair to question Lindell's importance if he cant kick-off well.

I looked it up yesterday. I can't remember if it was Martin, but there were 3 Bills receivers plus CJ that all ran a sub 4.54 40 time.

On average, we kick it off 4 or 5 times a game? That's about a 40 yard difference in field position compared to if Lindell would've kicked it off. Do you think Graham would've had more than 40 yards receiving?

I don't buy the line of just putting him out there and letting him run deep. Do you think any team is going to double team a rookie before he does anything? If he's on the field, he has to be able to block and read hot routes to get open underneath.

If WE know he's only out there as a decoy, then what do you think other teams are going to think?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

You don't understand roster limitations. For example, they might have had Graham active against NYJ. I don't buy the "not ready" bunk. Speed draws and peels off coverage.

The general idea is that under today's rules, every teams' kickers rack up the touchbacks. And if it is taken out, the dilution of force with the 2 man wedge rule looms.

Wasting a spot for a ko "specialist" is inane. If he can kick fgs - which the brain trust didn't allow him to do in preseason - fine. Then show Lindell the door.
Lindell can't kick touchbacks anymore, and neither can Moorman in the long-term.

[GingerP]

I think his point was roster spots are valuable. Thus, that kickoff specialist is one more player not available to help the team somewhere else. You only dress 46 guys on game day.

Carrying Potter allowed the Bills to get Touchbacks on 60% of their kcikoffs:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pct

That is 13th best in the NFL so far. I hope if they are going to use a roster spot on an extra kicker they are better than middle-of-the-pack in that stat. Granted, that is a big upgrade over Lindell. Still, if they are going to use a roster spot, maybe they should just go out and find a kicker that can kickoff and hit FG.

[Mr. Pink]

I think his point was roster spots are valuable. Thus, that kickoff specialist is one more player not available to help the team somewhere else. You only dress 46 guys on game day.

Carrying Potter allowed the Bills to get Touchbacks on 60% of their kcikoffs:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pct

That is 13th best in the NFL so far. I hope if they are going to use a roster spot on an extra kicker they are better than middle-of-the-pack in that stat. Granted, that is a big upgrade over Lindell. Still, if they are going to use a roster spot, maybe they should just go out and find a kicker that can kickoff and hit FG.

Who is gonna be rostered instead of him?

Roosevelt? Easley? Some other scrub?

Basically Potter is taking the last roster spot...if you're expecting the 46th player on your roster to be any kind of contributor, your franchise is in a lot of trouble and won't win many games.

[jdaltroy5]

I think his point was roster spots are valuable. Thus, that kickoff specialist is one more player not available to help the team somewhere else. You only dress 46 guys on game day.

Carrying Potter allowed the Bills to get Touchbacks on 60% of their kcikoffs:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pct

That is 13th best in the NFL so far. I hope if they are going to use a roster spot on an extra kicker they are better than middle-of-the-pack in that stat. Granted, that is a big upgrade over Lindell. Still, if they are going to use a roster spot, maybe they should just go out and find a kicker that can kickoff and hit FG.I think that stat is a bit skewed. We had 5 kickoffs and one was an onside kick.