Cuomo Rep “The only party that has not said they are committed to keeping the Bills"

[DraftBoy]

http://twitter.com/MattRichWarren/status/246555196858191872


“The only party that has not said they are committed to keeping the Bills in Buffalo is the Bills." - Rep for Gov Cuomo.

[Dr. Lecter]

I honestly think 2013 is the last year the Bills are here.

[DraftBoy]

I honestly think 2013 is the last year the Bills are here.

Im trying to figure out what Cuomo's angle is here though. There is little to be gained (or lost) by the Bills going to or staying in terms of what he wants. Im not trying to imply that WNY doesn't matter but its been proven time and time again that in terms of the totem pole they sit on the lower end when it comes to those decision makers in Albany.

[Dr. Lecter]

Im trying to figure out what Cuomo's angle is here though. There is little to be gained (or lost) by the Bills going to or staying in terms of what he wants. Im not trying to imply that WNY doesn't matter but its been proven time and time again that in terms of the totem pole they sit on the lower end when it comes to those decision makers in Albany.

Erie County is very important in statewide races and losings NYS only NFL team would not be good

[DraftBoy]

Erie County is very important in statewide races and losings NYS only NFL team would not be good

Yea but for Cuomo, statewide races are not what's important. That's why I can't quite see his angle. Does he really think he can strong arm the team into an ironclad Jaguars style lease?

[Bulldog]

I'm guessing that old Ralph and his advisors know the team will be worth more without a lease tying them to Buffalo. So they're not being reasonable and signed the one year extension, and there's a pretty good chance Ralph doesn't see the end of that lease. I don't like the way this is setting up at all. It's like the perfect storm. I too would not be surprised if next year is the Bills last in Buffalo.

[TacklingDummy]

Yea but for Cuomo, statewide races are not what's important. That's why I can't quite see his angle. Does he really think he can strong arm the team into an ironclad Jaguars style lease?
Tax revenue.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yea but for Cuomo, statewide races are not what's important. That's why I can't quite see his angle. Does he really think he can strong arm the team into an ironclad Jaguars style lease?

It is for his party and successor

[Pinkerton Security]

God, if only we hadnt signed Fitz to that terrible contract and if Mario wasnt such a pussy, we'd be set for the rest of time. /sarcasm

[Michael82]

What about all the tax revenue and salaries that the Buffalo Bills bring in each year? New York State would lose that if the Bills leave.

[The last buffalo fan]

**** the Bills, **** the Erie County, **** the NFL and **** the governator if the Bills leave Buffalo!

[Johnny Bugmenot]

What about all the tax revenue and salaries that the Buffalo Bills bring in each year? New York State would lose that if the Bills leave.
It's not as much as you think. All in all, it generally turns out to be a wash with all the subsidies. Plus, the increased disposable income from not going to Bills games almost always ends up elsewhere in the market.

[DraftBoy]

It is for his party and successor

You really think he cares about either of those two things?

[DraftBoy]

What about all the tax revenue and salaries that the Buffalo Bills bring in each year? New York State would lose that if the Bills leave.

Yes but what's the net effect? You're only presenting one side of the argument, how much is the state/county giving the Bills? Does equal out, is one side losing? I honestly have no idea but it would be intriguing.

[OpIv37]

Yes but what's the net effect? You're only presenting one side of the argument, how much is the state/county giving the Bills? Does equal out, is one side losing? I honestly have no idea but it would be intriguing.

and there are other factors too. Orchard Park police and NYS troopers spend a fortune on game days to control the traffic and keep people safe from any problems that arise. If the Bills weren't in town, they would save all that money.

[Michael82]

and there are other factors too. Orchard Park police and NYS troopers spend a fortune on game days to control the traffic and keep people safe from any problems that arise. If the Bills weren't in town, they would save all that money.

Okay, then let's talk about all the hotels, bars and restaurants that get lots of business during the season when Bills fans and other fans come in for the home games. Let's talk about the hotels that the Bills and their opponents stay in, for those 8 weekends a year. Let's talk about the merchandise sales at Dick's Sporting Goods, Laux and other stores in the area when the Bills are doing good and how much money those retail companies do. Let's talk about each Saturday/Sunday before a Bills game when the Wegmans, Tops and WalMart in the area are packed with the people buying tailgate food, party food and basically all the extras for their football watching. Do you think the fans will keep doing this if they dont have a home team to root for anymore?

And I read an article in the Buffalo News that the home sales, taxes and all that will be a wash with the added Stadium money and it makes it so the state loses nothing in their deal. It's a freaking no brainer IMO!

[Michael82]

Plus I'm still of the type that believes that the identity of Buffalo as a whole and even Western NY will go down the crapper the moment they allow the Bills to leave the area and I feel a bunch of people, especially the younger ones that were still staying here when they could move down south to NC, MD, VA for better lives and better jobs, will no longer have any reason that convinces them to stay...so they move.

[DraftBoy]

Plus I'm still of the type that believes that the identity of Buffalo as a whole and even Western NY will go down the crapper the moment they allow the Bills to leave the area and I feel a bunch of people, especially the younger ones that were still staying here when they could move down south to NC, MD, VA for better lives and better jobs, will no longer have any reason that convinces them to stay...so they move.

Oh the negative impact on the regional area will be tremendous and not in a good way. The area needs to the Bills far more than the Bills need the area.

[YardRat]

They aren't going anywhere. The new owners just won't be strapped with a lease from the old regime.

[DraftBoy]

They aren't going anywhere. The new owners just won't be strapped with a lease from the old regime.

No lease means outside ownership groups will be even more interested. I know Kelly thinks he has the people together to buy this team locally but a team that isn't tied to the area could be VERY interesting for an owner who wants a team in a place like LA or San Antonio.

[HAMMER]

Okay, then let's talk about all the hotels, bars and restaurants that get lots of business during the season when Bills fans and other fans come in for the home games. Let's talk about the hotels that the Bills and their opponents stay in, for those 8 weekends a year. Let's talk about the merchandise sales at Dick's Sporting Goods, Laux and other stores in the area when the Bills are doing good and how much money those retail companies do. Let's talk about each Saturday/Sunday before a Bills game when the Wegmans, Tops and WalMart in the area are packed with the people buying tailgate food, party food and basically all the extras for their football watching. Do you think the fans will keep doing this if they dont have a home team to root for anymore?

And I read an article in the Buffalo News that the home sales, taxes and all that will be a wash with the added Stadium money and it makes it so the state loses nothing in their deal. It's a freaking no brainer IMO!

The no brainer is that a new owner will not want to be saddled with a lease at an old stadium when paying a billion dollars for a franchise. This perfect storm of Wilsons age/health, and the lack of a lease is very, very bad for us fans. The Wilson family is doing the right thing by not agreeing to a long lease extension at this time. They know Ralph has one foot in the grave and don't want to limit their/or the buyers options when it comes time to sell, that could amount to a lot of lost money. I know how unpopular this line of thinking is and want to also take the view that the Bills will never leave Buffalo but the reality is right in front of our faces, and it is harsh.

[Ed]

Well this following article is from June, but it's the most positive one I think I've ever read regarding the Bills staying in Buffalo and provides some interesting speculation. I quoted part of it below because I'm wondering if maybe the front-runners to land the team are a local group that doesn't want to be tied to a long term lease at the Ralph because they want more flexibility to build a new stadium in Buffalo. Is this possible? The article sure makes it sound like there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of, but it sounds encouraging.

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/pro_hockey/NHL/sabres/article/171360/120/Bills-Future-in-Buffalo-Partly-Sunny

I'm told some of the groups who've made it known they're interested don't have a clue as to how to go about buying an NFL team and are way out of their league even though they have substantial financial backing.

However, there are at least two or three groups who not only have the financial portfolio to buy the Bills, but who want to keep the team in Buffalo for many years to come.

And that's not all.

These would be owners feel the future of the Bills is almost entirely dependant on the eventual construction of a new stadium either in downtown Buffalo or more towards Niagara Falls and Canada. Not only that, these people would be willing to finance most of the cost of a new stadium privately. I'll believe that when I see it, because I'm skeptical too, but people I respect insist this is true.

[OpIv37]

They aren't going anywhere. The new owners just won't be strapped with a lease from the old regime.

It's all going to come down to who gives the new owners the best deal. If LA or Toronto or San Antonio give them a better stadium deal, and/or the new owners think it will be more profitable, they will bolt.

And while Toronto seems like the least likely place if a relocation does happen, that's the nightmare scenario. If the team goes someplace south or west, then there is always the possibility that we could get a team back, a la Cleveland or Houston. But if there is a team in Toronto, it basically kills any hope of ever having another team in Buffalo. The region just can't support two teams.

[OpIv37]

The no brainer is that a new owner will not want to be saddled with a lease at an old stadium when paying a billion dollars for a franchise. This perfect storm of Wilsons age/health, and the lack of a lease is very, very bad for us fans. The Wilson family is doing the right thing by not agreeing to a long lease extension at this time. They know Ralph has one foot in the grave and don't want to limit their/or the buyers options when it comes time to sell, that could amount to a lot of lost money. I know how unpopular this line of thinking is and want to also take the view that the Bills will never leave Buffalo but the reality is right in front of our faces, and it is harsh.

This is the unfortunate reality that we are faced with. Until there is a stadium lease or post-Ralph ownership committed to Buffalo, the prospect of moving remains very strong.

People on this site don't want to hear it. They'll state that Jacksonville is a better move candidate, which would be true if their lease wasn't the most ironclad in the history of sports. They'll state that Jim Kelly will do something to keep the team in town, but the reality is that Kelly doesn't have the money or the political pull to make it happen. His efforts are greatly appreciated, but when it comes down to it, it's not his decision to make.

[OpIv37]

I just don't know why Ralph doesn't sell to someone who will keep the team in Buffalo and have them take over. It's the only way he can ensure that the team stays after his passing, and he'd be remembered as a hero despite putting a ****ty product on the field for roughly 80% of the seasons that he's owned the team.

[trapezeus]

thanks, ed. That was a good article and provides some hope. Kilgore is the man and if he's giving his two cents on people he respects, i'm more likely to believe it.

but i do think its odd that the current bills wouldn't be more willing to setup the next "buffalo based" ownership with a 3-8 year lease with the $200MM in free giveaways, allowing the ownership team to get some time to get financing, etc.

and why does this group so willingly sit there as this nonsense goes on? their investment is getting torched in the meantime.

as for the original post, i think that cuomo says it to force the bills to say, "we want to be here." they still haven't said that or shown it in the contract talks. it frames the voters mindset if the bills move to be, "the team never wanted to stay. i can't hold politician xY or Z accountable."

and that frankly scares me.

someone was talking about revenue. the bills are a cost suck to the area. some millionairs stay here for about 5 months a year, then they go party in NYC and Las Vegas. they don't pour that money in here. And the hotels and restaurants don't benefit when we all come home and stay with family and eat out of the back of our car in the parkinglots that aren't part of the ralph. between the government subsidies and other miscellaneous costs, i don't think having $100MM in payroll really makes much of a substantial difference to the NYS/Erie county coffers.

[JoeMama]

“The only party that has not said they are committed to keeping the Bills in Buffalo is the Bills." - Rep for Gov Cuomo.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/billsfreakingrule1.jpg

[BuffaloWingEater]

http://twitter.com/MattRichWarren/status/246555196858191872

in negotiations, you never show your hand. of course the bills won't commit. if they say they are 100% committed the county and state will give less $

[BertSquirtgum]

Ralph is cheap.

[Bulldog]

I just don't know why Ralph doesn't sell to someone who will keep the team in Buffalo and have them take over. It's the only way he can ensure that the team stays after his passing, and he'd be remembered as a hero despite putting a ****ty product on the field for roughly 80% of the seasons that he's owned the team.

And every time I hear someone ask this question, it's usually followed up with some lame a s s excuse about taxes. Well cry me a god damn river Ralph, I'm pretty sure your family will be set regardless if you have to pay taxes on the sale of the team or not. I'm pretty damn sure it's the least you can do for a city and region that has made you millions despite the fact that you put crap on the field way more often than not.

[better days]

No lease means outside ownership groups will be even more interested. I know Kelly thinks he has the people together to buy this team locally but a team that isn't tied to the area could be VERY interesting for an owner who wants a team in a place like LA or San Antonio.

I doubt Jerry Jones would ever allow a team in San Antonio. As for LA, I just read today that a group is going to sue the State & the prospective builder of the Stadium forcing them to build low income housing downtown & jeopardizing hope that a stadium will get built.

[Ed]

I doubt Jerry Jones would ever allow a team in San Antonio. As for LA, I just read today that a group is going to sue the State & the prospective builder of the Stadium forcing them to build low income housing downtown & jeopardizing hope that a stadium will get built.
Yeah I think there are better options for LA and if those spots get filled than there's not really a lot of incentive to move the Bills anywhere else.

[justasportsfan]

Since when does central ny care about WNY? We're canadians as far as they're concerned.

[DraftBoy]

Since when does central ny care about WNY? We're canadians as far as they're concerned, eh.

Fixed.

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I doubt Jerry Jones would ever allow a team in San Antonio. As for LA, I just read today that a group is going to sue the State & the prospective builder of the Stadium forcing them to build low income housing downtown & jeopardizing hope that a stadium will get built.

Do you know how much a regional rivalry is worth to Jerry?

[better days]

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Do you know how much a regional rivalry is worth to Jerry?

I would say in Jerry's mind, a regional rivalry is worth very little. He views the Cowboys as Americas team & his rivalry is with the NY Giants. He has the mentality of Corporate America, he wants the entire market to himself.

[Albany,n.y.]

I doubt Jerry Jones would ever allow a team in San Antonio. As for LA, I just read today that a group is going to sue the State & the prospective builder of the Stadium forcing them to build low income housing downtown & jeopardizing hope that a stadium will get built.

The cities are around 275 miles away from each other. That's less than Philadelphia is from the following teams: Giants, Jets, Ravens, & Redskins. Just because a team is in the same state doesn't make the cities close to each other. Pittsburgh is only about 30 miles further away from Philadelphia than San Antonio is from Dallas & I've never heard anyone say either team is stealing fans from the other. Heck, Cleveland & Pittsburgh are closer to Buffalo than SA is to Dallas. I don't remember Cleveland or Pittsburgh asking the Bills to move when the leagues merged.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Good riddance.

Then I won't have to read you whiny know it alls every day.

My heart would be broken forever if they leave but I am done with worrying about it any longer. Just get it over with already....

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I doubt Jerry Jones would ever allow a team in San Antonio. As for LA, I just read today that a group is going to sue the State & the prospective builder of the Stadium forcing them to build low income housing downtown & jeopardizing hope that a stadium will get built.
First off, 1) there are two stadium proposals, and 2) that lawsuit will get thrown out of court faster than you can say The Projects.

[YardRat]

It's all going to come down to who gives the new owners the best deal. If LA or Toronto or San Antonio give them a better stadium deal, and/or the new owners think it will be more profitable, they will bolt.

That is purely speculation. Maybe the better stadium deal comes from Niagara County?

[YardRat]

I just don't know why Ralph doesn't sell to someone who will keep the team in Buffalo and have them take over. It's the only way he can ensure that the team stays after his passing, and he'd be remembered as a hero despite putting a ****ty product on the field for roughly 80% of the seasons that he's owned the team.

You also don't know if such an agreement is already in place.

[HAMMER]

Good riddance.

Then I won't have to read you whiny know it alls every day.

My heart would be broken forever if they leave but I am done with worrying about it any longer. Just get it over with already....

Sounds like you have thrown in the towel already Corey.

[more cowbell]

It's really hard to imagine this team staying in area without several pieces falling in place (i.e. more games in Toronto for additional revenue, massive upgrades to the stadium/or a new stadium all together, finding a new owner who is committed to keeping the team in Buffalo etc. etc.)

Technically, the Bills are the only team that plays in New York State, yes, but Western NY is the "red headed step child" of NY. The revenue they bring into New York State is noticed, however, not remotely significant enough to justify keeping them here. As for merchandise sales at Dick's Sporting Goods as someone mentioned...that is spit in a bucket, not to mention Dick's sporting goods is a national chain and does not rely on selling NFL Merchandise as a money maker. There's a reason those hideous Nike Jerseys cost $11 to make and cost $100. If anything, carrying/selling NFL Merchandise now a days is almost a breakeven or loss because of the collective bargaining/licensing with the Players and teams. In terms of the revenue brought in from visitors to the surrounding hotels and tourist areas...once again...that would be money lost for the city of Buffalo - not really NYS.

Everyone who lives in NY already knows that all of the tax money, and attention to improving a state that is flat out broke...gets flushed down to NYC and the other upstate cities are left to fend for themselves. It sucks to hear and I am by no means making fun of the place that I love and grew up in, but it's the truth. I will beyond devastated if this team is no longer the Buffalo Bills, and will absolutely despise their existence if and when they are not the Buffalo Bills.

[Buddo]

Simply doesn't make any economical sense for the Bills to tie themselves in to a lease. Any State subsidies would be recouped from the money having the Bills in the State, brings in, in its myriad forms.
The current situation is mutually beneficial. To tie the Bills into a lease, simply tips a balance, for no obvious economic benefit.

I think you have also to say, that sadly, Ralph knows he won't be around to see the next lease out, and I doubt he wants to handcuff his inheritors by having them committed to staying in Buffalo for X amount of years.

I'm sure that the Bills FO does want to keep them in Buffalo, but they aren't stupid, and know what is, or isn't practical, or economically sensible.

For all of the talk from the various politicians about being committed to keeping the Bills in Buffalo, I don't think I've heard any of them actually come up with a financial proposal that would do so. 'Committed without it costing us anything', might be a more apt description.

'Committed' would be to actually say that they are prepared to fund whatever portion it is they need to ( the Bills and the NFL have a proportion they will pay), and then to try and put whatever riders on it they want through negotiation.

As far as I can see, there is no 'commitment' from any of the 'parties'. As for Cuomo *****ing about it, he's been directly responsible for delaying talks anyway, by appointing someone to go over all the proposals etc., when much of the processes had been gone through. Being 'committed' would have had that guy in there, from the beginning of everything.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sounds like you have thrown in the towel already Corey.

I wouldn't say that. I will be there Sunday like always. I just can't take these know it alls anymore. They leave they leave. Nothing I can do about it.

[Skooby]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor ?

[OpIv37]

That is purely speculation. Maybe the better stadium deal comes from Niagara County?
It's speculation to say that the people who were smart enough to make enough money to afford an NFL team are going to take the best business opportunity.


You also don't know if such an agreement is already in place.
Ah yes, the "magical mystery agreement" comeback. Every time someone makes this asinine comment, I ask this: what would Ralph have to gain by keeping it a secret? Why would he torture us with this speculation when we could be lauding him as a hero?

I still haven't received an answer.

[Ed]

It's speculation to say that the people who were smart enough to make enough money to afford an NFL team are going to take the best business opportunity.


Ah yes, the "magical mystery agreement" comeback. Every time someone makes this asinine comment, I ask this: what would Ralph have to gain by keeping it a secret? Why would he torture us with this speculation when we could be lauding him as a hero?

I still haven't received an answer.
It's not asinine, it's just a possibility. Maybe he wouldn't want to announce anything because he just wants to enjoy his final years owning the team without everyone hoping he dies tomorrow.

[BertSquirtgum]

I used to get mad when these threads came up but without the Bills my Sundays would be much more enjoyable.

[OpIv37]

It's not asinine, it's just a possibility. Maybe he wouldn't want to announce anything because he just wants to enjoy his final years owning the team without everyone hoping he dies tomorrow.
It's asinine. Why would people hope he dies if the team is staying either way? You're really stretching there. There is nothing to gain by doing something that would make millions of people happy and not telling anyone about it.

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I wouldn't say that. I will be there Sunday like always. I just can't take these know it alls anymore. They leave they leave. Nothing I can do about it.

"waaaaaah real life sucks. I'm just not going to think about it. And I'm going to put down anyone who does."

Grow up, Thurm.

[Ed]

It's asinine. Why would people hope he dies if the team is staying either way? You're really stretching there. There is nothing to gain by doing something that would make millions of people happy and not telling anyone about it.
Because fans haven't exactly been happy with him lately. I think if he came out and said Jim Kelly and his group are going to take over and what not, fans would start lining up to dig his grave for him. A lot of fans hate him right now so why would they want him to stick around if someone better was waiting in the wings? I'm not saying I believe any of this, but I don't think the idea of some sort of framework being in place is impossible.

Personally, Ralph Wilson just doesn't strike me as a guy that could give a crap at this point about any of our fears about the team moving. Has he ever really cared about what fans think of him, or being lauded as a hero?

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's asinine. Why would people hope he dies if the team is staying either way? You're really stretching there. There is nothing to gain by doing something that would make millions of people happy and not telling anyone about it.

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"waaaaaah real life sucks. I'm just not going to think about it. And I'm going to put down anyone who does."

Grow up, Thurm.

Hmmm this is a very strange post in my opinion.

Grow up..... Well I feel like I really have over the last 10 years. Doing very well professionally and personally.

I think this is the real disconnect we have always had OP. The Bills are something I enjoy as a fun free time activity. Of course their constant ineptitude is maddening and increasingly frustrating but again it is just a free time activity. You have never understood that, which is fine but it is what it is.

I don't qualify Buffalo Bills football in the THIS IS "REAL LIFE" category.

I don't know if there is anyone any more bummed out watching these games when they lose as I am but I don't let it rule my life, especially now.

If they moved I would most certainly shed tears but again there is nothing I can do about it.

Now if you talk to Drunk Thurm Sunday this it will be a different story. It IS life and death to him, but he isn't around nearly as much as 10 years ago either.

[Albany,n.y.]

The no brainer is that a new owner will not want to be saddled with a lease at an old stadium when paying a billion dollars for a franchise. This perfect storm of Wilsons age/health, and the lack of a lease is very, very bad for us fans. The Wilson family is doing the right thing by not agreeing to a long lease extension at this time. They know Ralph has one foot in the grave and don't want to limit their/or the buyers options when it comes time to sell, that could amount to a lot of lost money. I know how unpopular this line of thinking is and want to also take the view that the Bills will never leave Buffalo but the reality is right in front of our faces, and it is harsh.

I'm going along with the 1st sentence, but I'll take it in a different direction. If I'm someone who is loaded enough (like a Pegula), wants to buy the team, and keep it in WNY, the last thing I want is a lease and improvements to Ralph Wilson Stadium. We're talking about a 40 year old stadium no matter how many millions people are willing to put into it. As a new owner comitted to keeping the team in the Buffalo area (exact location to be determined) for a long time, I want a new stadium, whether I have to build it myself or not. The problem isn't selling tickets in WNY because of the economy, just look at the prices people get reselling tickets on ticket exchange. There is a market for higher priced tickets that will have to happen with a new stadium. I want the option of getting out of that relic in OP ASAP. Once the money is spent & improvements are made, the hands of the new owner are tied. Because the writing is on the wall for Ralph Wilson, the best thing the county should do is go year to year, don't waste good money after bad improving an outdated facility and come up with a plan to get a new stadium either in the same location or somewhere else in Erie County. The only way we can be guaranteed there will be the Buffalo Bills into the forseeable future is with new ownership that wants a new stadium. This team cannot compete in the Ralph, but can be very competitive in a new stadium.

[BillsWin]

Take my Bills away, I will find you and kill you.

[BertSquirtgum]

I like the ralph.

[jamze132]

I just don't understand how we can't be "competetive" playing in RWS. Even if every seat was bleachers, it would still sell out when the Bills are playing good football. If every seat had herpes, the stadium would still sell out because Bills fans are crazy and will show up regardless, as long as the Bills are winning.

[Michael82]

I just don't understand how we can't be "competetive" playing in RWS. Even if every seat was bleachers, it would still sell out when the Bills are playing good football. If every seat had herpes, the stadium would still sell out because Bills fans are crazy and will show up regardless, as long as the Bills are winning.
Not in the winter. Only the first half of the season is guaranteed as sell outs. The December games are not even close!

[YardRat]

It's speculation to say that the people who were smart enough to make enough money to afford an NFL team are going to take the best business opportunity.

Yet it isn't speculation that despite the several opportunities available over the last 50-odd seasons the 'smart people' didn't take the 'best business opportunity' and the team is still here.



Ah yes, the "magical mystery agreement" comeback. Every time someone makes this asinine comment, I ask this: what would Ralph have to gain by keeping it a secret? Why would he torture us with this speculation when we could be lauding him as a hero?

I still haven't received an answer.

And you won't, because the only one that can answer that question without speculation is Ralph. Until he passes, anyway.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I just don't understand how we can't be "competetive" playing in RWS. Even if every seat was bleachers, it would still sell out when the Bills are playing good football. If every seat had herpes, the stadium would still sell out because Bills fans are crazy and will show up regardless, as long as the Bills are winning. Um, the Christmas Eve game said otherwise. 20,000 Bills fans and 25,000 Tebow fans in a 73,000 seat stadium.

Only 20,000 Bills fans in an NFL stadium. UFL teams draw better than that.

[buffalopowereye]

It's really hard to imagine this team staying in area without several pieces falling in place (i.e. more games in Toronto for additional revenue, massive upgrades to the stadium/or a new stadium all together, finding a new owner who is committed to keeping the team in Buffalo etc. etc.)

Technically, the Bills are the only team that plays in New York State, yes, but Western NY is the "red headed step child" of NY. The revenue they bring into New York State is noticed, however, not remotely significant enough to justify keeping them here. As for merchandise sales at Dick's Sporting Goods as someone mentioned...that is spit in a bucket, not to mention Dick's sporting goods is a national chain and does not rely on selling NFL Merchandise as a money maker. There's a reason those hideous Nike Jerseys cost $11 to make and cost $100. If anything, carrying/selling NFL Merchandise now a days is almost a breakeven or loss because of the collective bargaining/licensing with the Players and teams. In terms of the revenue brought in from visitors to the surrounding hotels and tourist areas...once again...that would be money lost for the city of Buffalo - not really NYS.

Everyone who lives in NY already knows that all of the tax money, and attention to improving a state that is flat out broke...gets flushed down to NYC and the other upstate cities are left to fend for themselves. It sucks to hear and I am by no means making fun of the place that I love and grew up in, but it's the truth. I will beyond devastated if this team is no longer the Buffalo Bills, and will absolutely despise their existence if and when they are not the Buffalo Bills.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the notion that upstate supports NYC is simply wrong. If anything, it's the other way around. One reason this state struggled so much at the start of the Great Recession was the downturn in Wall Street money. Less action on Wall Street = less in the way of tax receivables, and less money for upstate.

[Novacane]

Good riddance.

Then I won't have to read you whiny know it alls every day.

My heart would be broken forever if they leave but I am done with worrying about it any longer. Just get it over with already....



You don't have to read them now.

[OpIv37]

Hmmm this is a very strange post in my opinion.

Grow up..... Well I feel like I really have over the last 10 years. Doing very well professionally and personally.

I think this is the real disconnect we have always had OP. The Bills are something I enjoy as a fun free time activity. Of course their constant ineptitude is maddening and increasingly frustrating but again it is just a free time activity. You have never understood that, which is fine but it is what it is.

I don't qualify Buffalo Bills football in the THIS IS "REAL LIFE" category.

I don't know if there is anyone any more bummed out watching these games when they lose as I am but I don't let it rule my life, especially now.

If they moved I would most certainly shed tears but again there is nothing I can do about it.

Now if you talk to Drunk Thurm Sunday this it will be a different story. It IS life and death to him, but he isn't around nearly as much as 10 years ago either.

Here's the problem: sometimes leisure activities suck too. Some of you seem to have this crazy idea that because the Bills are a leisure time activity, then it must be good or positive. But that's not the reality. Sometimes the picnic or the softball game gets rained out. Sometimes the movie or TV show isn't very good. Sometimes the comedian isn't funny. Sometimes (most of the time for us), your favorite sports team sucks. And sometimes, sports teams leave cities.

Also, it's NOT just a free time activity. As I said elsewhere on this site, people invest a lot of time and effort into this team. Even if all a fan does is watch the game, that's 16 games a year x 3 hours a game= 48 hours. Two full days. And most of us do more than that: watch preseason and highlights, read about the team, discuss the team with friends, come to websites like this one or social media sites and talk about the team, etc. Look at you personally. Don't you have like a 10+ year streak of being at every home game? It's hard to invest that much time and money into something without getting emotionally attached above and beyond just a leisure time activity.

[OpIv37]

Yet it isn't speculation that despite the several opportunities available over the last 50-odd seasons the 'smart people' didn't take the 'best business opportunity' and the team is still here.




And you won't, because the only one that can answer that question without speculation is Ralph. Until he passes, anyway.

the smart people weren't given the opportunity because Ralph wouldn't sell. Duh.

[OpIv37]

I just don't understand how we can't be "competetive" playing in RWS. Even if every seat was bleachers, it would still sell out when the Bills are playing good football. If every seat had herpes, the stadium would still sell out because Bills fans are crazy and will show up regardless, as long as the Bills are winning.

Because it's not about the diehard fans anymore.


Fans like you, me and probably 98% of the people on this board have no problem partying in icy parking lots and sitting in freezing cold seats with a crappy beer cheering for our team, but the NFL doesn't make enough money off of people like us.

The NFL is catering to corporate "fans" in luxury boxes who want amenities and are willing to pay for them. That's how Jones and Snyder and Kraft make all their money. The league would rather sell 50 luxury boxes and 20,000 regular tickets than have 70,000 regular fans and empty luxury boxes.

And beyond just that, not all the regular fans are diehards. Some people go for the game, others can be talked into going to the game IF it's an "experience" beyond just the game. And the NFL wants to tap that market too. Personally, I have no problem with the Ralph because all I care about is the game, and the on-the field experience is on par with the rest of the NFL (although the last time I was there, the audio system sucked so it was hard to hear the announcer, but that's a minor upgrade). Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see it that way.

[YardRat]

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the notion that upstate supports NYC is simply wrong. If anything, it's the other way around. One reason this state struggled so much at the start of the Great Recession was the downturn in Wall Street money. Less action on Wall Street = less in the way of tax receivables, and less money for upstate.

Ummmm, no.

Wall Street is not NYC, despite it's physical location.

[better days]

Because it's not about the diehard fans anymore.


Fans like you, me and probably 98% of the people on this board have no problem partying in icy parking lots and sitting in freezing cold seats with a crappy beer cheering for our team, but the NFL doesn't make enough money off of people like us.

The NFL is catering to corporate "fans" in luxury boxes who want amenities and are willing to pay for them. That's how Jones and Snyder and Kraft make all their money. The league would rather sell 50 luxury boxes and 20,000 regular tickets than have 70,000 regular fans and empty luxury boxes.

And beyond just that, not all the regular fans are diehards. Some people go for the game, others can be talked into going to the game IF it's an "experience" beyond just the game. And the NFL wants to tap that market too. Personally, I have no problem with the Ralph because all I care about is the game, and the on-the field experience is on par with the rest of the NFL (although the last time I was there, the audio system sucked so it was hard to hear the announcer, but that's a minor upgrade). Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see it that way.

Well, it is not the league per se that would prefer to have the suites & high priced seats sold over the cheap seats, it is the GREEDY owners like Jerry Jones & Robert Kraft that would prefer that because they do no have to share that money with the other owners as they do regular seating.