Adventures in officiating, Week 3

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I know harping on the officiating has been done to death, but in looking over the results of the games today I am just appalled

Cowboys/Bucs

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cowboys-receiver-kevin-ogletree-slips-replacement-ref-hat-191116326--nfl.html
One of the side judges apparently decides that Ogletree has run out of bounds (replays showed he clearly didn't). Rather than signaling by dropping his hat, he throws it right in Ogletree's path, causing him to slip on a crucial 3rd down play while he was wide open in the endzone. Romo sails the pass right where he would have been otherwise.
http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/REPLACEMENT-REF-BANANA-PEEL.gif

Redskins/Bengals

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/09/23/late-chaos-unsportsmanlike-penalty-end-game-on-sour-note/
With :07 left in the game, down by 7, Washington has the ball on Cincy's 34. Fred Davis gets called for a false start. The ref announces that this penalty requires a 10 second runoff, and declares the end of the game (to my knowledge, this is correct). Cincy starts to head to the locker room. Kyle Shanahan comes storming out, convinces the ref he was wrong, and gets the time put back on the clock, but gets flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct even though the ref agreed with him. Then the refs mark off 25 yards for 20 yards worth of penalties.

49ers/Vikings

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jim-harbaugh-cons-replacement-refs-two-extra-challenges-014552673--nfl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
On pure chutzpah, Jim Harbaugh manages to talk the refs into giving him two challenges after he used his final timeout, and by rule should have none. The refs also flag San Francisco for an illegal block while they were kicking off - a penalty which doesn't exist.

Steelers/Raiders

One of the most flagrant headshots I've ever seen, directly in front of a ref. No flag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMamOucWZY

And I'm not even touching the craziness on SNF. Goodell needs to get the refs union on the phone immediately, this entire season is turning into a fiasco.

[cookie G]

They put the end of that game on here. I'm pretty sure it was Mundy had another helmet to helmet towards the end of the game. It wasn't called either. Luckily, no one was hurt.

Sooner or later, the rule is going to have to sink in.

[Mr. Pink]

I've yet to see a conclusive angle that shows the Ravens FG at the end of that game last night was actually good.

It's possible that these refs directly affected the outcome of an NFL game.

That to me is appalling. Even if it was the Pats that got screwed.

[Syderick]

I've yet to see a conclusive angle that shows the Ravens FG at the end of that game last night was actually good.

It's possible that these refs directly affected the outcome of an NFL game.

That to me is appalling. Even if it was the Pats that got screwed.

It looked in to me, as well as many others. Now it wasn't the greatest kick but it did sneak in.

[Mr. Pink]

It looked in to me, as well as many others. Now it wasn't the greatest kick but it did sneak in.

I'm not saying it missed but I haven't definitively saw an angle that it was good. However those guys are right under the uprights so there theoretically is no reason they could blow that call.

It's like the 1986 AFC Championship game, still don't know if Karlis made that kick in OT but it is what it is and ancient history.

Neither of the two aforementioned kicks would have surprised me if they were called no good, basically.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The best angle on the field goal is from underneath. Only the ref had it.

[Forward_Lateral]

In the Det Tenn game, the refs assessed a 27 yard penalty on a helmet to helmet hit. It's supposed to be 15 yards, of course, but they ended up giving Tennessee an extra 12 yards because they marked it off from the wrong 44 yard line.

[Syderick]

Gameday Final discuss the controversy over the SNF refs:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/0ap2000000065320/Controversy-surrounds-refs-after-Patriots-Ravens?module=HP11_content_stream

[ServoBillieves]

It's really getting bad. I'm not a fan of the regular referees, but they look like God-sends to us now. Depressing and I do feel bad for the replacement referees but this will soon get out of control. The regulars are laying back and smirking at the circus waiting for Goodel to fold.

[Bulldog]

Gameday Final discuss the controversy over the SNF refs:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/0ap2000000065320/Controversy-surrounds-refs-after-Patriots-Ravens?module=HP11_content_stream

I love all the Pats fans crying about the officiating below that video. After a decade plus of having most of the pivotal calls go in your favor, it must really suck to be them. Couldn't have happened to a better bunch of a-holes!

[Skooby]

If the Pats don't win, they have to complain about something. I think we need to thump them this week & set no doubt about them sucking.

[ICRockets]

2 horrendous calls on instant replay, too. The ball clearly hit the ground on a catch they gave to Anthony Fasano in the Dolphins game, and there was a catch they somehow ruled incomplete in the Titans game even though there was absolutely nothing to indicate the ball hit the ground. The replays quite clearly show it NOT hitting the ground, but the refs still managed to OVERTURN the call of a reception on the play.

With so many 1pm games going long yesterday, it also cut into ad revenue. The CBS affiliate I watched couldn't cut to commercial for 45 minutes. Hopefully some pressure from the networks gets things moving.

[mjt328]

I agree. The officiating has been an absolute disaster.

What I find interesting though...
When the real refs were officiating games, it seemed like certain teams (Pittsburgh, New England) would always get the majority of favorable calls. At least the replacement refs seem to screw up equally.
And strangely (hmmm...) both of those teams are 1-2.

The Patriots can complain about last night's game, but they messed up LOTS of calls that favored both teams.
Sure, the field goal was close - but by NFL rule, it was not a reviewable play. Watching the replay, I think it looked good.

[cookie G]

I love all the Pats fans crying about the officiating below that video. After a decade plus of having most of the pivotal calls go in your favor, it must really suck to be them. Couldn't have happened to a better bunch of a-holes!

That's not true. Their fans never complain.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/948238-replacement-refs-has-said-merged-x6-page21.html

And this...after a game in which the Ravens were called for 60 yards more in penalties than the Pats.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I've yet to see a conclusive angle that shows the Ravens FG at the end of that game last night was actually good.

It's possible that these refs directly affected the outcome of an NFL game.

That to me is appalling. Even if it was the Pats that got screwed.

meh, "just give it to em"

[cookie G]

It's possible that these refs directly affected the outcome of an NFL game.

That to me is appalling. Even if it was the Pats that got screwed.

Possible?

Refs affect every NFL game.

the holding call that brings back a TD.
the holding that wasn't called that springs the long TD run.
1 foot in, or 2 feet?
Did he have possession, or did he juggle it?
Did the ball carrier extend the ball far enough for the crucial 1st down?

The best you can do is keep the controversy to a minimum, to keep them less talked about. You do that through competency.

Goodell has done an awesome job of taking the multi billion dollar extravaganza that is the NFL and has made the referees the no. 1 story of the 2012 season.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Possible?

Refs affect every NFL game.

the holding call that brings back a TD.
the holding that wasn't called that springs the long TD run.
1 foot in, or 2 feet?
Did he have possession, or did he juggle it?
Did the ball carrier extend the ball far enough for the crucial 1st down?

The best you can do is keep the controversy to a minimum, to keep them less talked about. You do that through competency.

Goodell has done an awesome job of taking the multi billion dollar extravaganza that is the NFL and has made the referees the no. 1 story of the 2012 season.

True, but those are always going to be close calls that people will disagree with. The mistakes these goombahs are making are errors of basic rules or simple math.

[gebobs]

The players should have walked out with the refs in solidarity.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Vince Verhei: Well, that's about the most fitting end possible to one of the worst football Sundays I've ever seen. I put this on Twitter and I will repeat it here: I get paid to write about football, and I get paid to write about pro wrestling. I am no longer sure which sport has worse officiating.

Aaron Schatz: So at the end, the Ravens pull it out. Very nice last drive by Flacco. Patriots defense sort of folded there. But damn, that whole game ... that was a travesty. No matter which team won, it was a travesty. And now, they're probably going to fine Bill Belichick for putting his hands on the ref after the game trying to get the ref's attention. Because, you know, fining Belichick will totally show everybody what the problem is in the NFL right now.

Mike Kurtz: I'm not sure there has been a substantive shift in officiating from Week 1 (when everyone was largely shrugging) to now. There are still marginal calls and there are still questionable calls, but I think the main difference (after Week 2 especially) is a problem of legitimacy. I do think actual enforcement is substandard, but not ridiculously so. However, replacement crews are cocking up basically every single aspect of game management, from player control to clock control to enforcement, and all the while taking a million conferences before doing anything.

This makes the crews look incompetent. If the crew looks incompetent because it cannot manage the game, the viewer does not trust the crew to handle penalty enforcement appropriately because the perception is that the officials do not understand the game thoroughly enough to do their jobs. The process of officiating at any level only works if the crew carries with it an air of legitimacy and authority. Without that, the dozens of marginal and judgment calls each official makes each game is put under a microscope (often by people with a very loose grasp of the rules and officiating mechanics) and you end up with 10 different opinions the viewer trusts as much as the word from the officials.

I don't think it matters at this point whether there is a substantive difference in the officiating between the regulars and the replacements, since nobody trusts the replacements at this point. That said, everyone is still going to watch, so the NFL has no real reason to compromise with the officials.

Vince Verhei: I actually agree with a lot of that. My problem with the replacement officials is less about them making good or bad calls and more about how long every damn discussion takes. It's not knowing how many timeouts a team has. It's not knowing the rules about challenges. It's not knowing how yards a penalty should be. It's the excess pushing and shoving in every game. It's the fact that they very clearly have no idea what the hell they are doing.
http://footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2012/audibles-line-week-3

[imbondz]

there was a catch they somehow ruled incomplete in the Titans game even though there was absolutely nothing to indicate the ball hit the ground. The replays quite clearly show it NOT hitting the ground, but the refs still managed to OVERTURN the call of a reception on the play.


only because the refs haven't really hurt Bills games yet, but I think the new refs add a whole new level of excitement and fun. In the TN game, the replay didn't show it NOT hitting the ground, you couldn't tell either way. It may have brushed the ground but it definitely wasn't conclusive. So the refs made a bad call to reverse the call on the field.

[cookie G]

True, but those are always going to be close calls that people will disagree with. The mistakes these goombahs are making are errors of basic rules or simple math.

More pay for math teachers!!! :)

[cookie G]

The players should have walked out with the refs in solidarity.

Lol, like that would have happened. If there is one group that has shown itself more self-serving than the owners, its the NFLPA, certified or decertified.

Hell, you can't get them to kick in a few bucks to get some former players health insurance, they sure as heck aren't about to put paychecks at risk for referees.

On the other hand, they DID issue a strongly worded letter to the NFL today.

[Mr. Pink]

The refs NOW have completely botched a call that directly affected the outcome.

The Packers did NOT lose this game. That was not a TD. The Refs decided the outcome not the players on the field.

[imbondz]

Unbelievable. Terrible terrible call. Worst call i've ever seen.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I wasn't watching live, but looking at the replay on NFL.com, I have to agree.

That might be the single worst call in NFL history.

[jimmifli]

I wasn't watching live, but looking at the replay on NFL.com, I have to agree.

That might be the single worst call in NFL history.

I don't know, but if I was asked to research an article about the worst play in NFL history, I'd start with this one as the benchmark.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I don't know, but if I was asked to research an article about the worst play in NFL history, I'd start with this one as the benchmark.

Just give it to em is just as bad and so was the pass interference on Henry Jones during the hail mary back in 98. However, this was awful and damn these guys need to be fired.

[mikemac2001]

I agree. The officiating has been an absolute disaster.

What I find interesting though...
When the real refs were officiating games, it seemed like certain teams (Pittsburgh, New England) would always get the majority of favorable calls. At least the replacement refs seem to screw up equally.
And strangely (hmmm...) both of those teams are 1-2.

The Patriots can complain about last night's game, but they messed up LOTS of calls that favored both teams.
Sure, the field goal was close - but by NFL rule, it was not a reviewable play. Watching the replay, I think it looked good.


This is exactly why im ok with it ....well not ok but deal with it. The refs suck but they suck the same for each team, sick of seeing brady on the ground waving his arms and getting a call.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

http://deadspin.com/5946112/

Because of the LFL's perception it is that much more critical for us to hire officiating crews that are competent, not only for the credibility of our game but to keep our athletes safer. Due to several on-field incompetent officiating we chose to part ways with with a couple crews which apparently are now officiating in the NFL. We have a lot of respect for our officials but we felt the officiating was not in line with our expectations.

We have not made public comment to date because we felt it was not our place to do so. However in light of tonight's event, we felt it was only fair that NFL fans knew the truth as to who are officiating these games.


That's right. These refs were literally too incompetent for the LINGERIE FOOTBALL LEAGUE

[Albany,n.y.]

Just give it to em is just as bad and so was the pass interference on Henry Jones during the hail mary back in 98. However, this was awful and damn these guys need to be fired.

McCarthy showed more class sending his players out, but Wade was right & McCarthy was wrong. When the refs screw you that badly you make a statement by letting the other team take the field for the conversion against nobody. The best answer a coach should have when the refs tell him to send 11 players out would be go screw yourselves because you screwed us enough already. I wish the Packers' coach was Denny Green instead of McCarthy-I doubt there would have been a similar post game press conference. Denny would have said "The refs are who we though they were, and they let them off the hook. If Goodell wants to fine my ass, go ahead and fine my ass!"

[mikemac2001]

Guys its a booth call it wasnt made by the replacements

When it goes to the booth its the same ref as last year

Now if the booth couldnt overturn due to a judgement call and could only check if it hot the ground then thats diff

But either way the booth guy blew it or the booth review didnt.matter

[Philagape]

Guys its a booth call it wasnt made by the replacements

When it goes to the booth its the same ref as last year

Now if the booth couldnt overturn due to a judgement call and could only check if it hot the ground then thats diff

But either way the booth guy blew it or the booth review didnt.matter

The replay official would have had to prove that Tate didn't have shared possession. With the ball not fully visible in the replay, that impossible burden of proof was handed to him by the scab's call.
If the call on the field had been an interception, that also would have been upheld. Therefore the scab is responsible.

[Mr. Pink]

Guys its a booth call it wasnt made by the replacements

When it goes to the booth its the same ref as last year

Now if the booth couldnt overturn due to a judgement call and could only check if it hot the ground then thats diff

But either way the booth guy blew it or the booth review didnt.matter

False.

Simultaneous catches are not reviewable.

So what they went to the replay booth for on that TD, outside of the fact all TDs are technically reviewed now, your guess is as good as mine.

[YardRat]

Every score is reviewed, that's all you need. If the guy in the booth can't reverse a bad call on the field on a score, then there is no use continuing the practice.

[ICRockets]

As much as I want to blame the refs on this one, I don't think I can. None of you can honestly tell me you knew without a doubt that it was an interception the first time you saw the play. At first glance, that looked like simultaneous possession.

[Philagape]

As much as I want to blame the refs on this one, I don't think I can. None of you can honestly tell me you knew without a doubt that it was an interception the first time you saw the play. At first glance, that looked like simultaneous possession.

We weren't standing two feet away like the guy who made the call.

[ICRockets]

We weren't standing two feet away like the guy who made the call.

I don't see how that matters. His eyes don't view life slower than ours do.

[mikemac2001]

False.

Simultaneous catches are not reviewable.

So what they went to the replay booth for on that TD, outside of the fact all TDs are technically reviewed now, your guess is as good as mine.


Thats y i mentioned judgement call and why did it go to the booth ....was the bad call on the field not fixable bc of replay if so people need to shutup about it going to the booth if it was then its the booths fault

[mjt328]

As much as I want to blame the refs on this one, I don't think I can. None of you can honestly tell me you knew without a doubt that it was an interception the first time you saw the play. At first glance, that looked like simultaneous possession.

It was not even close.

Green Bay's player had two hands on the ball and full possession for the ENTIRE time.
Seattle's receiver (Tate) had a couple seconds where his hands were touching the ball - while it was in the defender's grasp.
By rule, to be a completed pass - the receiver has to maintain possession throughout the play. When they hit the ground, the ball is fully in possession of the Green Bay defender and Tate is barely touching the ball.

[Tatonka]

he should have knocked the ball down.. instead of trying to intercept it to get stats.. and i had 400$ on greenbay..

[ejsmith]

I know it didn't end up hurting us, but the fumble call on Fitzpatrick was total crap. The ref said that his hand came forward without the ball, yet the ball was moving forward. How is that possible?!?

[ckg927]

This is becoming international, folks.

Take a look at this piece written for The Guardian in the UK. (BTW, the guy who wrote it is a Bills fan.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/sep/25/replacement-referees-packers-seahawks-suck

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Ok just came across this. This is pretty sad if true.

Former Lingerie League Officials in the NFL
http://deadspin.com/5946112/

[kishoph]

In all fairness to the replacement refs, they are under such pressure and scrutiny, that's it's impossible for them to perform at a high level. Most of the bad calls are not being made because they don't know the rules but are judgement calls that they are blowing and it seems that the more pressure that is being put on them, the worse they are doing. As far as the "regular refs" are concerned, I have a hard time siding with them, some of their issues are they want to keep/have a pension. this is not their careers, they are a bunch of white collar professional that do not want to be full time officials, yet they want to be compensated like it. The thing that bothers me the most, is they don't want to allow the NFL to be able to get rid of officials that they feel are not doing a good job, in other word the "regular refs" do not want to have any accountability, if they screw up, too bad, you can't fire me. Also they don't want to have back up refs (not replacement refs), but refs that will be trained and then be on a waiting list to be called up to fill in for an official on his way out. People keep screaming for the NFL to end this, but ignore the fact that the "regular refs" are also responsible for this mess, more so in my eyes, because they refuse to budge or work with the league (imo). The NFL is their employer and rewards them handsomely, if they don't like it, go back to their day jobs.

[Mr. Pink]

In all fairness to the replacement refs, they are under such pressure and scrutiny, that's it's impossible for them to perform at a high level. Most of the bad calls are not being made because they don't know the rules but are judgement calls that they are blowing and it seems that the more pressure that is being put on them, the worse they are doing. As far as the "regular refs" are concerned, I have a hard time siding with them, some of their issues are they want to keep/have a pension. this is not their careers, they are a bunch of white collar professional that do not want to be full time officials, yet they want to be compensated like it. The thing that bothers me the most, is they don't want to allow the NFL to be able to get rid of officials that they feel are not doing a good job, in other word the "regular refs" do not want to have any accountability, if they screw up, too bad, you can't fire me. Also they don't want to have back up refs (not replacement refs), but refs that will be trained and then be on a waiting list to be called up to fill in for an official on his way out. People keep screaming for the NFL to end this, but ignore the fact that the "regular refs" are also responsible for this mess, more so in my eyes, because they refuse to budge or work with the league (imo). The NFL is their employer and rewards them handsomely, if they don't like it, go back to their day jobs.

They know the rules? 27 yard personal foul penalties say otherwise.

From the Lions - Titans game Sunday.

(12:18) (Shotgun) 10-J.Locker pass deep middle to 88-C.Stevens to DET 32 for 24 yards (55-S.Tulloch). PENALTY on DET-55-S.Tulloch, Personal Foul, 15 yards, enforced at DET 32. The Replay Assistant challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) 10-J.Locker pass incomplete deep middle to 88-C.Stevens (55-S.Tulloch). PENALTY on DET-55-S.Tulloch, Personal Foul, 27 yards, enforced at TEN 44.

[kishoph]

They know the rules? 27 yard personal foul penalties say otherwise.

From the Lions - Titans game Sunday.




That's exactly my point, I'm sure that they know a personal foul is 15 yards, but they're so flustered out there that they are making stupid mistakes, i.e., marking off penalties (spotting the ball). They have been indecisive, not because they don't know the rules (college rules are basically the same), but because they can not handle the pressure and it's clouding their judgement and actions.

[gebobs]

I know it didn't end up hurting us, but the fumble call on Fitzpatrick was total crap. The ref said that his hand came forward without the ball, yet the ball was moving forward. How is that possible?!?
The ball was out of the control of his hand but still being moved forward by his fingers.