The NFL is dead.

[The King]

Then they don't care about the players. The game gets choppier and dirtier each week. Now refs decide the outcome.

[Philagape]

At best, this season should have an asterisk.

The embarrassment reaches a new low on national TV. The amateur scabs decided the outcome.

[imbondz]

Seriously. Worst call I've ever seen. Multiple horrible bad calls in that last series.

[jimmifli]

That. Was. Awesome.

[imbondz]

That. Was. Awesome.

We'd be flipping out if that happened to the Bills. For the first time i'm embarrassed for the officials. That play will be watched all week and no one will understand how they could call that a TD.

[Mr. Pink]

This is an embarrassment and how the league can continue to have any credibility with these scabs going forward I don't know.

[Slim]

I'm not particularly fond of either team and this pisses me off. GB did not deserve to lose.

[jimmifli]

We'd be flipping out if that happened to the Bills. For the first time i'm embarrassed for the officials. That play will be watched all week and no one will understand how they could call that a TD.
I don't even think I'd be mad. It's so unbelievable.

That should be enough to get a labour deal done.

[Beebe]

WOW,HAHA.

[ckg927]

I don't even think I'd be mad. It's so unbelievable.

That should be enough to get a labour deal done.

Should, but it won't.

30 or 31 teams still have yet to be screwed over by the refs.

[Bulldog]

What a joke.

[Oaf]

Simultaneous possession?

I can't believe Pete Carroll lucked out again like this after that Bills-Pats finish.

[Beebe]

GLAD IT WASN'T US.:bad:

[imbondz]

Jennings clearly has the ball in the air, and has it when he lands on the ground. One ref called interception, the other ref calls Touchdown. Guarantee the one ref thought Green Bay was on offense.

[LVGrown]

They were talking bout the just give it to em TD vs the pats some years back. Those plays do happen to the Bills. Its kina nice to see it happen to a team that ALWAYS gets the calls there way.

[Skooby]

Footlocker wants their employees back.

[MikeInRoch]

You could definitely tell which of the officials had Tate on their fantasy team...

[ckg927]

GLAD IT WASN'T US.:bad:

The next time, it might BE us.

Keep that in mind.

[YardRat]

On national TV. How convenient.

[more cowbell]

Gotta love Goodell....ruining the league each and every day...

[cookie G]

That. Was. Awesome.

It is.

You have a league full of highly paid stars, but the big story remains the refs.

Kinda like having a huge rock concert and locking out the sound managers. Afterwards, all anyone talks about is how you couldn't hear anything.

[jimmifli]

This would be me if I was a coach:

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XXpcb5aTnPk?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XXpcb5aTnPk?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[IlluminatusUIUC]

A nationally televised disgrace to one of the league's marquee franchises? If this doesn't get a deal done, Goodell needs to be fired.

Into the East river.

- - - Updated - - -

http://img.imgcake.com/RappinHobo/wtfjpgat.jpg

Touchdown my ass

[Tbuffalobills]

lol

[Mr. Pink]

How the league can parade these guys out Thursday and still claim they, the league, have any integrity is mind boggling.

[jamze132]

Footlocker wants their employees back.
Not after that doozy of a call.

[jimmifli]

I've seen WWE officials make better calls.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I'll let yesterday go because the Pats had it coming to them after "just give it to em" (still the worst called game ever), but these refs, wow:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'm slightly anti-Packers but right is right. They were clearly robbed by the incompetent officials.

[jimmifli]

If you catch the guy who catches the ball, it's a touchdown!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

"If Rodgers had Allstate instead of State Farm, he'd be protected from Mayhem... like this."

lol

[imbondz]

best quote: first time a QB throws an INT for the win

[Philagape]

Follow TJLang (Packers lineman) on Twitter. He's having a Howard Beale evening. Good for him. Let all the players go off like him, and the NFL can use the fines to pay the real refs.

[cocamide]

Seriously. Worst call I've ever seen. Multiple horrible bad calls in that last series.

Music City Miracle/Mistake?

[Night Train]

The Pats are getting screwed.

I think it's working out quite nicely.

[Historian]

This was clearly not 'simultaneous possession'. It was clearly a bad call.

However...what were we told after 'just give it to them'?

If you had played better for the 59:50 seconds before, you wouldn't have been in a position for the refs to screw you.

Also, part of the blame goes to the GB defensive back. Bat the ball down into the ground, instead of trying to be a glory hound and intercept the ball, and there is no room for controversey.

I'm actually revelling in the fact that the rest of the league is experiencing the crap Bills fans have for the last 40 years!

[DMBcrew36]

Is it only a matter of time before the replacement refs decide one of the Bills games?

[ServoBillieves]

I am so sick of the word "lockout" it's ridiculous. NHL, NFL, NBA, referees, me after I've drank too much... If you want a multi-billion dollar company to succeed you better damn well sure make the product on the field is top tier. At the end of the season, when all of the tie-breakers and divisions are being sifted through, you know who the teams will blame: the refs.

Who they should blame? The greedy, oily slime that head the NFL and the referees holding out.

I truly, truly feel bad for the replacement officials. I can't find the clip of the movie Rat Race where the referee gets in the cab and the cabbie recognizes him and leaves him in the desert.

[DraftBoy]

I don't know what's funnier this blown call or people being unaware that the replay officials are NOT replacement officials. Rag on replacements all you want for the first blown call but a regular ref upheld that call.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't know what's funnier this blown call or people being unaware that the replay officials are NOT replacement officials. Rag on replacements all you want for the first blown call but a regular ref upheld that call.

Simultaneous possession is not reviewable. So what would the replay official overturn that call based on?

[The King]

So obviously after I posted this there was the most controversial call of the season. Its just getting horrific out there, and now it's directly impacting in the outcome of games.

On the last drive the ref's blew a pass interference call, roughing the passer, and a push off on the final play. I'll give them that the last call was tough but the previous 3 calls would've rendered that meaningless.

Jennings also got murdered about 30 yards down field and away from any play with about 9 minutes to go. Then he got flagged for retaliating.

[Jersey1031]

Simultaneous possession is not reviewable. So what would the replay official overturn that call based on?

Well if the receiver didn't catch it, it's obviously an incomplete pass...

Duh?

[Philagape]

If the call on the field had been INT, that also would have been upheld. Therefore the scab is responsible. The burden of proof for an overturn is determined on the field.

[DraftBoy]

Simultaneous possession is not reviewable. So what would the replay official overturn that call based on?

I didn't say anything about the call, I simply find it funny people don't know that the replay officials are not replacements.

[Mr. Pink]

If the call on the field had been INT, that also would have been upheld. Therefore the scab is responsible. The burden of proof for an overturn is determined on the field.

If the call on the field had been INT, which it should have been, there would have been no review. The game would have been over.

[Mr. Pink]

I didn't say anything about the call, I simply find it funny people don't know that the replay officials are not replacements.

Then what play are you referring to that the replay official upheld the call?

[DraftBoy]

Another thing that is funny is how hard the networks are working to point out every missed call by a replacement official, even on judgement calls like PI, & Offensive PI. Was quite apparent on NBC's, and FOX's broadcasts over the weekend. They are not happy about the real refs being locked out and doing their best to let the NFL know.

[Philagape]

If the call on the field had been INT, which it should have been, there would have been no review. The game would have been over.

Consider it a hypothetical. Point was, I don't blame the replay official.

[DraftBoy]

Then what play are you referring to that the replay official upheld the call?

Im not referring to any play. Read it again, I find it funny that people don't know that the replay official is a real official. That's it.

[Novacane]

Yeah the Packers got screwed but the league is far from dead. How many of you saying this is so terrible will be watching the NFL next week?

[The King]

I the call is questionable. The push was not.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't know what's funnier this blown call or people being unaware that the replay officials are NOT replacement officials. Rag on replacements all you want for the first blown call but a regular ref upheld that call.

^^^

This is your exact wording in a thread that was, I see it's now been merged, dedicated to the debacle that occurred last night.

It looks like you're saying the replacements blew the call at first and then regular replay officials upheld that call.

Or maybe you were just speaking in general?

[Bulldog]

I don't know what's funnier this blown call or people being unaware that the replay officials are NOT replacement officials. Rag on replacements all you want for the first blown call but a regular ref upheld that call.

Should have been offensive passer interference to begin with. So it never even should have come to that. Also, how does the ref who has a terrible angle compared to the official on the backside of the play overrule him? It's a freakin joke. And it's not just the blown calls. How about player safety that the NFL supposedly preaches? I've seen more guys take liberty with illegal hits (See Heyward-Bey and Schaub) and scurmishes after plays and it's due to the fact that they're not being flagged for it. It's the equivelent of having a substitute teacher. And Goodell wants to preach about protecting the shield of the NFL. Memo to Roger : your current replacement refs have made a mockery of the shield and all that it supposedly stands for. Speaking of Roger, where in the hell has he been during this fiasco? For a guy who likes to pound his chest and tell everyone within earshot how great he is, he's been awfully quiet lately. I for one don't think this is funny at all, and I'm sure some of you won't either after the Bills get screwed by the incompetence of the officials. That whole game last night was a freaking disaster. /Rant

[The King]

I've seen WWE officials make better calls.

:rofl:

[DraftBoy]

^^^

This is your exact wording in a thread that was, I see it's now been merged, dedicated to the debacle that occurred last night.

It looks like you're saying the replacements blew the call at first and then regular replay officials upheld that call.

Or maybe you were just speaking in general?

General. I don't tend to get upset about specific calls but rather the 50 or so other things that could of happened differently.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah the Packers got screwed but the league is far from dead. How many of you saying this is so terrible will be watching the NFL next week?

It's NFL football so of course we'll watch.

The replacement officials have done just as much if not more than the 1987 scab players did to tarnish the Shield that Goodell is all preachy about.

[DraftBoy]

Should have been offensive passer interference to begin with. So it never even should have come to that. Also, how does the ref who has a terrible angle compared to the official on the backside of the play overrule him? It's a freakin joke. And it's not just the blown calls. How about player safety that the NFL supposedly preaches? I've seen more guys take liberty with illegal hits (See Heyward-Bey and Schaub) and scurmishes after plays and it's due to the fact that they're not being flagged for it. It's the equivelent of having a substitute teacher. And Goodell wants to preach about protecting the shield of the NFL. Memo to Roger : your current replacement refs have made a mockery of the shield and all that it supposedly stands for. Speaking of Roger, where in the hell has he been during this fiasco? For a guy who likes to pound his chest and tell everyone within earshot how great he is, he's been awfully quiet lately. I for one don't think this is funny at all, and I'm sure some of you won't either after the Bills get screwed by the incompetence of the officials. That whole game last night was a freaking disaster. /Rant

Yes and the Packers never should of allowed Bruce Irvin to get to Rodgers on a three man rush where Bulaga got manhandled and the OG lost his assignment but **** happens. I tend to focus on the things the players and coaches can control and do differently than a refs call because you can't control it. Would you hope to maintain some level of consistency? Yes but with these new officials all bets were off and we knew that.

I find it hysterical.

[The King]

I typically watch about 10 hours of football on Sunday. I am honestly thinking about watching zero, but I want be able to resist watching the Bills, but after that I'm done with football for the day the only way the NFL is going to feel any pain from this is from the fans. Maybe there should be a primetime boycott or something. I don't know, but it sucks to watch right now.

[Mr. Pink]

General. I don't tend to get upset about specific calls but rather the 50 or so other things that could of happened differently.

I have the same general mindset that the game is 60 minutes long and if you did things better or differently through the other 59 minutes and 50ish seconds you wouldn't have leave the chance open for and outside source to screw you in a game.

However this is the first time in 30 years of watching NFL football where one missed call directly gave a team a W or an L.

I've seen people mention the "Just Give it to Them" game...sure that call was ridiculous but Buffalo still had the opportunity to go out the next play and stop the Pats. There was no opportunity for the Pack to do anything the next play.

It calls into question the integrity of the league when there is a blown call that directly effects the outcome of the game.

[The King]

Yes and the Packers never should of allowed Bruce Irvin to get to Rodgers on a three man rush where Bulaga got manhandled and the OG lost his assignment but **** happens. I tend to focus on the things the players and coaches can control and do differently than a refs call because you can't control it. Would you hope to maintain some level of consistency? Yes but with these new officials all bets were off and we knew that.

I find it hysterical.

This is all well and good, but how do you feel about the defensive pass interference call at the end of the game? Good solid corner play, exactly what you want to see, he gets called for pass interference. Your premier WR gets leveled running 30 yards away from the play... these are things that change the way the players play the game and that is not what we want, or what the players and coaches want.

[Bulldog]

Im not referring to any play. Read it again, I find it funny that people don't know that the replay official is a real official. That's it.

So basically you just felt like saying it's funny that people don't know that the review officials are not replacements with no context to the discussion in the thread?

[DraftBoy]

This is all well and good, but how do you feel about the defensive pass interference call at the end of the game? Good solid corner play, exactly what you want to see, he gets called for pass interference. Your premier WR gets leveled running 30 yards away from the play... these are things that change the way the players play the game and that is not what we want, or what the players and coaches want.

I feel the same as I always feel about PI, its a spot judgement call that is called incorrectly most of the time. But you don't want it called correctly just like holding.

[jimmifli]

http://i.qkme.me/3r23vw.jpg

[DraftBoy]

So basically you just felt like saying it's funny that people don't know that the review officials are not replacements with no context to the discussion in the thread?

No I found both the call funny because of how bad it was and in context to the web outcry of how a replacement replay official couldn't overturn it was also funny on multiple levels, the most of which to me was that they aren't a replacement official, not to mention that the call technically isn't even reviewable as pointed out by other posters.

[DraftBoy]

I have the same general mindset that the game is 60 minutes long and if you did things better or differently through the other 59 minutes and 50ish seconds you wouldn't have leave the chance open for and outside source to screw you in a game.

However this is the first time in 30 years of watching NFL football where one missed call directly gave a team a W or an L.

I've seen people mention the "Just Give it to Them" game...sure that call was ridiculous but Buffalo still had the opportunity to go out the next play and stop the Pats. There was no opportunity for the Pack to do anything the next play.

It calls into question the integrity of the league when there is a blown call that directly effects the outcome of the game.

How about the Tuck Rule? The missed toss in the Thanksgiving game of Pitt v. Detroit? The Catch and Catch II?

[Philagape]

15868

[Mr. Pink]

How about the Tuck Rule? The missed toss in the Thanksgiving game of Pitt v. Detroit? The Catch and Catch II?

The Raiders still could have stopped the Pats. Pittsburgh could have still stopped Detroit and got the ball back.

Point is these teams still had the ability after the blown call to still win, Green Bay did not last night.

Unsure what the issue with the Catch was.

The closest thing in football that I can remember directly affecting the outcome happened in college. 22 years ago. Colorado scores on 5th down to beat Missouri.

[DraftBoy]

The Raiders still could have stopped the Pats. Pittsburgh could have still stopped Detroit and got the ball back.

Point is these teams still had the ability after the blown call to still win, Green Bay did not last night.

Unsure what the issue with the Catch was.

And the Pack could of knocked the ball down like you're supposed to. Always ifs, should of, and could of.

[DBrown77]

Packers need to quit whining about that last call. They seemed to have forgotten about the Packers TD drive in the 4th quarter when it was 3rd and 2 on Seattles 47. Seattle had a horrible PI call against them that extended the drive and ultimately they scored their TD. If Seattle didnt get hosed on that then the Packers punt and dont get the TD therefor making the final play a moot point.

That being said the refs were embarrasing, but the refs gave them a gift to put them ahead in the first place..

[Mr. Pink]

And the Pack could of knocked the ball down like you're supposed to. Always ifs, should of, and could of.

Or the call SHOULD have been right on the field of an interception.

[DraftBoy]

Or the call SHOULD have been right on the field of an interception.

Or it never should of come to that if they made the right play in that situation.

[The King]

And the Pack could of knocked the ball down like you're supposed to. Always ifs, should of, and could of.

Well one DB couldnt cause he was pushed to the ground.

[The King]

Or it never should of come to that if they made the right play in that situation.

Then why have officials at all?

[billsburgh]

I've seen WWE officials make better calls.

the funny thing is that WWE is incorporating referee incompetence intoo their storylines and even mentioned the NFL

[Pinkerton Security]

Or it never should of come to that if they made the right play in that situation.


This is BS. What you're saying is "this call doesnt matter"....in a loose translation.

Regardless of the rest of the game, the officials have the duty to make the CORRECT CALL. To say otherwise is just idiocy. They made the wrong call, and it cost an otherwise victory-worthy team a win. Tell me that if that happened to the Bills you wouldnt be upset, and I'll call you a liar.

[Bulldog]

Kinda hard to knock the ball down when you're on the ground because you got pushed from behind by the WR.

[Mr. Pink]

If Goodell is so interested in protecting the integrity of the game and the "shield" as he loves to claim he is...

He should invoke Rule 17.3

Period.

[The King]

What DB is saying is great to say to some kids playing pop warner, if you play well you don't need to worry about officials. Sure. In the pro's where any given Sunday one team can beat another, officiating is part of the game, and bad officiating can effect the outcome. If this game was called fairly and accurately than what DB is saying is true. But it's impossible to overcome this many bad calls at this level.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Saying you shouldn't let yourself get into a situation where the refs can affect your win is a nice platitude, but it's also silly. The refs were affecting the entire game, not just the final play. For one thing, Rodgers pointed out that they screwed up on the failed 2 point conversion and gave him a Kicker's ball, which are brand new and typically slipperier than the regular ones which have been broken in some. Had he used the proper ball, maybe he converts that and the game goes to OT last night.

[TedMock]

It was a horrible call. It was wrong. No argument there. The refs pooped the bed. It was even the most crucial of all calls in the game, but that in and of itself did not lose the game for Green Bay.

If I'm Mike McCarthy, I'm more upset that my vaunted offense only scored 12 points. That's a bigger factor in why the game was lost. They also made bad calls in both directions.

[Skooby]

Seahags played a great game last night & sacked Rodgers quite a bit, so it wasn't like GB ruled & Seattle totally stole the game away on one play. I also had watched quite a bit of holding calls in the second half by GB 's O-line that were not called in the first half. 12 points doesn't win you many games either, just to be clear (as mentioned by Ted Mock).

[Philagape]

Whether Green Bay should have done other things to win is irrelevant. It's just another game in that respect.

We're only talking about this because the integrity of the league is plunging further and further.

[mjt328]

Do you know what worries me?

For the next 5-6 days, the whole sports world will be talking about how the Green Bay Packers and New England Patriots got SCREWED by the replacement officials. How they should have won their games in Week 3, but lost because of bad calls.

What better way to calm the angry fans, than to let a few calls go their way in Week 4?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What better way to calm the angry fans, than to let a few calls go their way in Week 4?

I don't think that will actually calm the angry fans, and it will just antagonize new ones.

[Dr. Lecter]

I was just as disturbed, or more disturbed, that the refs do now know some of the rules. Like the fact that Seattle needed to attempt and extra point after the TD. That fiasco was embarrassing. It is one thing to make bad or even horrible calls. But not knowing the rules, some of which are fairly basic?

That is unacceptable.

[Historian]

How about the Tuck Rule? The missed toss in the Thanksgiving game of Pitt v. Detroit? The Catch and Catch II?
Wasnt it the Seahawks that were screwed by Phil Luckett when Vinnie T was given a td on th 1?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Is it only a matter of time before the replacement refs decide one of the Bills games?

Next week, 4th and goal, its Brady time, he throws a hail mary and Lloyd catches it while entangled with Byrd and its ruled an INT for the Bills as time expires. Bellijerk starts punching people and the Ralph goes wild. That would be justice for the past fifteen years of Pats games.

[stuckincincy]

Kenmore's own TMQ chimes in:


http://espn.go.com/espn/playbook/story/_/id/8421050/the-replacement-referees-losing-control-coaches-players-worse-blown-calls

[DraftBoy]

Well one DB couldnt cause he was pushed to the ground.

So was a receiver. You don't want PI called to the letter of the law. You will hate football that way.

[DraftBoy]

Then why have officials at all?

That question doesn't make sense. Officials are there to enforce the rules but never will a call effect a whole game more than the 20-50 other things if the other team had done correctly would of. At the end of the day the easy blame is on the bad call or replacement refs but the real issue is a lack of execution. DB's know to bat down the ball on hail mary's don't try and catch it. If 5 OL can't block 3 DL you have far bigger issues than what the ref is doing, do you not agree?

[DraftBoy]

This is BS. What you're saying is "this call doesnt matter"....in a loose translation.

Regardless of the rest of the game, the officials have the duty to make the CORRECT CALL. To say otherwise is just idiocy. They made the wrong call, and it cost an otherwise victory-worthy team a win. Tell me that if that happened to the Bills you wouldnt be upset, and I'll call you a liar.

Oh Im absolutely saying the call didn't matter. Its a ****ty excuse for a failure to make plays.

I'd be upset but I'd be far more upset about players not executing and recognizing the situation. You guys act like the Pack played a flawless game and had this game stolen from them by this one call. That's not even close to the truth.

[DraftBoy]

What DB is saying is great to say to some kids playing pop warner, if you play well you don't need to worry about officials. Sure. In the pro's where any given Sunday one team can beat another, officiating is part of the game, and bad officiating can effect the outcome. If this game was called fairly and accurately than what DB is saying is true. But it's impossible to overcome this many bad calls at this level.

If you have to tell kids in pop warner about the refs then you as a coach aren't doing a good job at all. The rule is the same for any level of football. If you execute then the refs won't have an effect period.

[DraftBoy]

Saying you shouldn't let yourself get into a situation where the refs can affect your win is a nice platitude, but it's also silly. The refs were affecting the entire game, not just the final play. For one thing, Rodgers pointed out that they screwed up on the failed 2 point conversion and gave him a Kicker's ball, which are brand new and typically slipperier than the regular ones which have been broken in some. Had he used the proper ball, maybe he converts that and the game goes to OT last night.

Yes and if players make plays the entire games and not have countless mental lapses the call is never made because the situation comes up. Both teams stunk it up last night the refs didn't make them do that. ****ty play did and the Pack got burned by it.

[Mr. Pink]

Oh Im absolutely saying the call didn't matter. Its a ****ty excuse for a failure to make plays.

I'd be upset but I'd be far more upset about players not executing and recognizing the situation. You guys act like the Pack played a flawless game and had this game stolen from them by this one call. That's not even close to the truth.

With the play called correctly the Pack wins 12-7. Therefore the game was stolen from them by one call.

To argue it any differently is asinine.

[billsburgh]

did anyone see Stevie Johnson's tweet about this?

Stevie Johnson, Bills receiver (@StevieJohnson13) “Yeeeee! Score 1 for the Good Guys. Way to Go Stripes! Always good seeing a fellow WR get credit for a TD.......ON A INTERCEPTION. Yesss”

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Reactions-to-Seahawks-Packers-ending.html#ixzz27UrvCx9L

[DraftBoy]

Whether Green Bay should have done other things to win is irrelevant. It's just another game in that respect.

We're only talking about this because the integrity of the league is plunging further and further.

Can anybody actually define what the integrity of the league is? Go back to last season and read the countless threads week after week accusing the refs of cheating, or the idea that the league and refs have a conspiracy in favor of the Patriots. My point is the officiating has been better without a doubt but its never been to a level that you would consider good either. The reason these replacements refs look as bad as they do is because the networks are focusing on them for right or wrong. If we had regular refs you wouldn't see half the blown calls you see today but that's not because the blown calls wouldn't be happening.

[PTI]

NFL needs to start over, hire all in shape ex athletes as refs, no freaking 60 year olds out there.

[DraftBoy]

With the play called correctly the Pack wins 12-7. Therefore the game was stolen from them by one call.

To argue it any differently is asinine.

If you understand the situation, Jennings knocks the ball away and they win 12-7. To argue differently is equally ridiculous. Know your situation, your assignment, and execute it. Period.

[The King]

If you understand the situation, Jennings knocks the ball away and they win 12-7. To argue differently is equally ridiculous. Know your situation, your assignment, and execute it. Period.

Did you see what happened in the DET/TEN game? Knocking the ball away isn't exactly safe either.

[DraftBoy]

Did you see what happened in the DET/TEN game? Knocking the ball away isn't exactly safe either.

You're attempting to use an outlier to prove a rule.

[The King]

If you have to tell kids in pop warner about the refs then you as a coach aren't doing a good job at all. The rule is the same for any level of football. If you execute then the refs won't have an effect period.

What if two teams execute equally?

[DraftBoy]

What if two teams execute equally?

The talent wins out.

[DBrown77]

Do people not realize that there were bad calls against the Seahawks too that lead to GB points??? GB should not have had that TD. Wasnt there a Seahawks INT called back also on a questionable roughing the passer.

[ticatfan]

God bless the CFL.

[Mr. Pink]

If you understand the situation, Jennings knocks the ball away and they win 12-7. To argue differently is equally ridiculous. Know your situation, your assignment, and execute it. Period.

So it's Jennings fault he actually caught the ball?

You know who was in better position to knock the ball down until he ended up on the ground? Shields.

Without a push off the ball never gets to Tate. Or should we be applauding Tate for getting away with a blatant PI and then get his arm in there when Jennings and he hit the ground?

The Titans knew the situation Sunday and knocked it down......right into Titus Youngs' hands for a tying TD.

- - - Updated - - -


The talent wins out.

Are you trying to claim that Seattle is more talented now?!?

Both teams executed equally last night...equally as poor.

[stuckincincy]

God bless the CFL.

Go Hamilton TiCats, and Argos and Alouettes can go scrub out dumpsters. :cheers:

[The King]

You're attempting to use an outlier to prove a rule.

I'm not trying to prove a rule, Im trying to get it through your head that this is professional football, every game is a chess match between the best athletes in the world. No game is perfectly executed on either side of the ball, ever. Calls are going to be made, and when 24 penalties are called by officials who are not well versed in the game it effects the outcome period.

Not talking about one call, I'm talking about a sequence of events across the league, effecting games. It's a problem. For you to sit back and say play perfect football and you don't have to worry about it is ridiculous. Hits are getting vicious, marquee players are getting leveled, the players and coaches are exploiting everything. It's turning into backyard football. And it's the officials that have lost control.

This is where I bow out of the Draftboy vortex.

[DraftBoy]

So it's Jennings fault he actually caught the ball?

You know who was in better position to knock the ball down until he ended up on the ground? Shields.

Without a push off the ball never gets to Tate. Or should we be applauding Tate for getting away with a blatant PI and then get his arm in there when Jennings and he hit the ground?

The Titans knew the situation Sunday and knocked it down......right into Titus Youngs' hands for a tying TD.

Yes, and we've been over the final point already.






Are you trying to claim that Seattle is more talented now?!?

Both teams executed equally last night...equally as poor.

No they didn't. Seattle played a better game, and that's not even talking about the final play. GB is far more talented but the Seahawks played better despite having a limited offense. GB gave up 8 sacks in one half not even mention they couldn't stop the Hawks with a three man rush. When do you (plural) stop excusing ****ty play and start holding the players accountable for not doing their job?

[Mr. Pink]

No they didn't. Seattle played a better game, and that's not even talking about the final play. GB is far more talented but the Seahawks played better despite having a limited offense. GB gave up 8 sacks in one half not even mention they couldn't stop the Hawks with a three man rush. When do you (plural) stop excusing ****ty play and start holding the players accountable for not doing their job?

Because the players on the Packers did do their job. They won the game. The refs gave it to the Hawks, the Hawks didn't win it.

To argue otherwise is absolutely ridiculous. Period.

Your argument or devils advocate playing is like saying people around here had no reason to gripe about Brett Hull or No Goal because Hasek should have still stopped the shot or Brian Holzinger should have cross checked Hull through the net.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yes and if players make plays the entire games and not have countless mental lapses the call is never made because the situation comes up. Both teams stunk it up last night the refs didn't make them do that. ****ty play did and the Pack got burned by it.

Jennings made the play. That's the point. He got the INT, won the game, and had it taken away from him.

[DraftBoy]

I'm not trying to prove a rule, Im trying to get it through your head that this is professional football, every game is a chess match between the best athletes in the world. No game is perfectly executed on either side of the ball, ever. Calls are going to be made, and when 24 penalties are called by officials who are not well versed in the game it effects the outcome period.

Not talking about one call, I'm talking about a sequence of events across the league, effecting games. It's a problem. For you to sit back and say play perfect football and you don't have to worry about it is ridiculous. Hits are getting vicious, marquee players are getting leveled, the players and coaches are exploiting everything. It's turning into backyard football. And it's the officials that have lost control.

No you are, you're saying that because the one time it happens (and please for the love of god don't be foolish and find another 10 instances over 15 years) therefor you shouldn't do it. Its a logical fallacy.

I think Im actually make your second point, not the other way around and I never said it didnt have an effect on the game, I said it did not decide the game.

This is football, for better or worse. I don't like the hits, I don't like the replacement officials, but what I dont like more is this victim mentality fans have taken that the NFL has altered this game they love so much or the one the networks have taken that they are going to go an extra mile to make it appear like these refs are worse than the regular ones when they don't have to with bonehead calls like this occurring.

There is no argument you can make that will trump failure to execute properly for me, and I know I can't make you see things my way nor do have any interest in trying. We see the game differently from a philosophical stand point. It doesn't make one of us right or one of us wrong its just two different ways of looking at it.

Here I'll show you;
What is the one thing that bothers you the most in football when it comes to the game itself on the field.

[DraftBoy]

Jennings made the play. That's the point. He got the INT, won the game, and had it taken away from him.

No he didn't. You can say you think he did but the ruling was not an INT, so no he did not make the play or a play. He made the wrong decision and it cost his team. Not completely his fault because you have to be able to rely on the ref to get the call right but if he knocks the ball away none of this occurs.

[DraftBoy]

Because the players on the Packers did do their job. They won the game. The refs gave it to the Hawks, the Hawks didn't win it.

To argue otherwise is absolutely ridiculous. Period.

Your argument or devils advocate playing is like saying people around here had no reason to gripe about Brett Hull or No Goal because Hasek should have still stopped the shot or Brian Holzinger should have cross checked Hull through the net.

The Hawks won the game not the Pack and I think GB coaches would disagree with you heavily about them doing their jobs and they should.

Well of course he should of stopped it, even he said that. He didn't, the ref blew the call, and we lost. If you're still caught up on that you may need to step away for a few minutes.

[Mr. Pink]

The Hawks won the game not the Pack and I think GB coaches would disagree with you heavily about them doing their jobs and they should.

Well of course he should of stopped it, even he said that. He didn't, the ref blew the call, and we lost. If you're still caught up on that you may need to step away for a few minutes.

Not caught up on it as I'm not even a Sabre fan. Was just using an example of a ref screwing a team out of a game. There isn't many examples of this in the professional sport to reference.

Of course the GB coaches will say the need to play better, hell Belichick was saying it while the Pats were going 16-0. Every coach says it regardless of performance because complacency gets you beat. Still doesn't diminish the fact that GB lost due to officiating and not the opposition.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

No he didn't. You can say you think he did but the ruling was not an INT, so no he did not make the play or a play. He made the wrong decision and it cost his team. Not completely his fault because you have to be able to rely on the ref to get the call right but if he knocks the ball away none of this occurs.

Are you acknowledging the call was wrong?

[DraftBoy]

Are you acknowledging the call was wrong?

Im acknowledging it was poorly called game for both teams and yes I think the call is wrong, but I know a few people including a former official who don't think it was wrong.

- - - Updated - - -


Not caught up on it as I'm not even a Sabre fan. Was just using an example of a ref screwing a team out of a game. There isn't many examples of this in the professional sport to reference.

Of course the GB coaches will say the need to play better, hell Belichick was saying it while the Pats were going 16-0. Every coach says it regardless of performance because complacency gets you beat. Still doesn't diminish the fact that GB lost due to officiating and not the opposition.

GB got beat because GB didn't execute properly. The officiating did them no favors but they lost because they got beat.

[Mr. Pink]

Im acknowledging it was poorly called game for both teams and yes I think the call is wrong, but I know a few people including a former official who don't think it was wrong.



Link of someone who isn't affiliated with the Seahawks or a fan of the Seahawks who thinks the call was the right call please.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on who actually beat GB.

[DraftBoy]

Link of someone who isn't affiliated with the Seahawks or a fan of the Seahawks who thinks the call was the right call please.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on who actually beat GB.

http://twitter.com/NFLDraftMonster

Ben used to be an official

[Mouldsie]

Yes. The NFL is dead.
Dead indeed.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Im acknowledging it was poorly called game for both teams and yes I think the call is wrong, but I know a few people including a former official who don't think it was wrong.

Right, but YOU think it's wrong. So why are you disputing that he won the game and had it stolen by the refs? Sure, if he had swatted the ball away they were more likely to win, but what if Tate just jumped on it and they called it a catch anyway? At some point you have to acknowledge that the players are at the mercy of the refs.

[Mouldsie]

Also, I thought I was the only person on the planet that could interpret that as the right call as well. Looks like others are coming out of the wood-work against the hysteric masses.

To me the call could have gone either way. It was a judgment call. By rule book definition it could easily be defined as a TD. There are other factors in play that are making this more controversial than it otherwise would be. It looked like an INT but Tate did have two hands on it at the same time. **** happens. GB player needs to take more control there. Or the Packers need to score more the rest of the game.

Seattle got jobbed on the GB TD drive too so who knows who wins if the game is called correctly the entire time.

[The King]

NFL just said the call was correct, but pass interference was committed by Golden Tate.

[Mr. Pink]

NFL just said the call was correct, but pass interference was committed by Golden Tate.

Not surprising that the NFL will back this even if they shouldn't.

[Mouldsie]

I thought the call was probably right by rule. I think people were just waiting for a reason to explode over the replacement refs being over their heads for the most part.

[The King]

Not surprising that the NFL will back this even if they shouldn't.

Well they back it but not really, since the play would be a penalty GB could accept and replay the down.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I thought the call was probably right by rule. I think people were just waiting for a reason to explode over the replacement refs being over their heads for the most part.

The refs have been embarrassing themselves all weekend. This was just the highest profile example with the most direct result on the game. I posted a thread about it, there was an egregious error (not just judgment calls either) in nearly every game.

- - - Updated - - -


Well they back it but not really, since the play would be a penalty GB could accept and replay the down.

Offensive penalty ends the game.

[Mouldsie]

I want to see if there was a helmet to helmet hit on Russel Wilson by Matthews too.

[Mr. Pink]

I want to see if there was a helmet to helmet hit on Russel Wilson by Matthews too.

Don't forget the obvious block in the back on the other side of the line on the play too.

[Mouldsie]

That's why I agree the officiating is out of hand, I just think directing all hate at this call is not accurate.

[The King]

Offensive penalty ends the game.


Oh, well there you go. See I could be a replacement ref too!

[Mr. Pink]

That's why I agree the officiating is out of hand, I just think directing all hate at this call is not accurate.

Without a doubt. It's league wide.

It's just magnified when it happens on a play that directly effects the outcome.

[Philagape]

My point is the officiating has been better without a doubt

Mine too, thank you.

[ckg927]

Kenmore's own TMQ chimes in:


http://espn.go.com/espn/playbook/story/_/id/8421050/the-replacement-referees-losing-control-coaches-players-worse-blown-calls

If you look down...WAY down...Gregg has a bit of good words for the Bills. He's referring to when Buffalo had a 1st and goal at the Browns 1 and-instead of running up the score-Gailey told the team to take a knee. BUT, he also adds that the Bills were the beneficiary of refs who kinda botched a call on Spiller's TD with Urban giving a good block well downfield(a no-no in the NFL, but OK in HS or college).

[Generalissimus Gibby]

The only way at all possible for the NFL to remedy this situation is

1) Replay the end of that game

or

2) Reverse the call and the outcome of the game to 12-7

or

3) Give Pete Carroll a lifetime ban, seriously this is the second time one of his teams has gotten away with a Bull**** call like this.

[jimmifli]

http://i.imgur.com/PnDzW.jpg