PDA

View Full Version : How to actually be successful with Fitz and this D



Cali512
10-05-2012, 12:07 AM
One thing i cant stand, is how we use, or dont use, Fred + Spiller together.

Here are 3 ways to make our running game 10X more explosive

1. You should have Fred and Spiller together, 85% of the time. They should always be either in the backfield, or split out wide when each is on the field. There is no reason one should be on the sideline when the other is, unless there resting. When they break the huddle, they never can change there personal in time. They never know whos gonna come out as the RB. By the time we break the huddle and they see who lines up at WR/RB, they wont have time for personal changes if needed. Or to prepare.
2. Use the Quick count. The best way to have a great running game is by doing the quick count. It keeps the D un organized, and catches them outa position. Something we should do consistantly non stop in a drive
2. FAKE PLAYS TO FRED/SPILLER AND HAND IT TO THE OTHER! The best way to open up the game with 2 great RBs, do a misdirection, have them both as the Wildcat. Im sure Fred and Spiller can throw as much and more efficiently than Brad Smith has the past few years. We have 2 great players, use them. We needa do a lot of those fake screen one way, then passing a screen the opposite, especially with Fred and Spiller being both of those players. The D would over pursue one of them and would allow a big gain
3. Use the hurry up offense. Keep the D tired, run the ball on them non stop. Hurry up, run, Hurry up, run. Screen to Spiller, then misdirection, etc etc.

STAY AWAY FROM THE SPREAD

We should be a west coast team!

West Coast is a horizontal pass scheme, which is good for a QB who can throw from 30 YDs and under with pin point accuracy at times. It works well with Fitzs strengths and weaknesses, and is largely set for players who can run after catch (Stevie, Jones, Graham, FJ, CJ, Dickerson). A smart QB like Fitz should love this offense which allows him to use all his weapons and allows him to spread the ball around. The typical west coast offense would be Fitz under center, with a RB behind him, along with a back to the left. The WC offence utilizes the HB, which we have in Dickerson, and is a quick, 3-5 step timing offence. Is perfect with a young fast OL, which we have, and needs some one who can stretch the field (Graham). The fact that we havent tried to do this already is crazy! Its so obvious and is perfect, especially from QB all the way to our HB, its perfect

3 things about Fitz

1. He needs 1-2 designed runs to get his head into the game and motivated. I have no idea why. but ever since the first game, hes recognized it and has done this quite obviously each game. Whatever works i guess, but it worries me about his mentality
2. He doesnt step up into the pocket, which is why quick passes are important. He doesnt have instinct like other QBs. If his first 3 reads are gone. He is useless. He is a smart QB, but that doesnt help you when its just instinct. But as I was saying, he doesnt step up, which is exactly why he cant hit deep passes. He puts no leg strength into his passes, he uses his arm way to much. He will either learn or wont, i dont buy that its to late to learn. Hes not a major vet thats played in hundreds of games. Hes still a QB trying to find his nitch so he will figure this out, but it may be to late when he does
3. He does not get rattled, but he does get careless. When he throws an Int he tries to get a big play to erase the mess up. Its different than sulking, but its why it seems like instead of throwing short passes like most QBs do after they have a bad start, he tries to force more passes, and just racks up more INTs.


Stevie, Graham, Jones, Chandler, and Dickerson

These should be our only WRs. We need no other passing weapons unless we stick with the pathetic spread O we do. On hail marrys, Chandler, Stevie, Jones, Graham, and Jackson should be our WRs. Maybe Dickerson too. But those should be the WRs if we would do the WCO.

Stevie NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED MORE! No matter what you say, hes our number one passing weapon. He should be the base of our passing attack. Its amazing how out of all the players, he has the least designated plays toward. Dickerson, Graham, Jones, Jackson, and Spiller all have more designated set plays than Johnson. He is an amazing route runner, and can make defenders miss after he gets the ball. We needa find some ways to get him open, and the WCO would work towards doing so


Defense

Blend the 3-4 and 4-3!


Mix it up! We have a lot of multi dimentional Defensive lineman and LBs. You know what would get to Brady? Mario lining up at RDE, then LDE, then maybe 3-4 ILB? Or maybe DT with Dareus and Williams around him with Anderson and Kelsay as OLBs? Mix it up! We needa run some 4-3 prowl. Let everyone stand up, pre snap, except Mario, then blitz and let Mario run a stunt toward the middle. The DL is based on power. We should have a major push on 3/4ths of the D and Anderson who can wiggle his way to the QB. We needa give them advantages. When a OL cant block they run screens. When a DL isnt getting pressure, blitz, and use ways to let them use there advantages. Like with what i said with the Prowl stunts. YOU SHOULD RUN AS MANY FORMATIONS AS YOUR D IS FIT TOWARD RUNNING! I have no idea why you dont mix up Defensive formations like crazy, especially when the D is 90% the same as the 3-4 D we had last year. Its so simple to put Mario, and Anderson at OLB, Dareus, Williams, and Carrington at DL. Just to mix it up and cause different things for the O to look for.

GingerP
10-05-2012, 06:36 AM
STAY AWAY FROM THE SPREAD

We should be a west coast team!

Kind of unrealistic to scrap the offense and install an entirely new offense after week 4.

I'm assuming you are thinking the WCO of the Bill Walsh fame, in which case it is a terrible fit. While it is true that they have some pieces (Stevie Johnson is a nice fit running slants and they have backs that can catch), the most critical factor in running a WCO is the QB. It is a pass-first scheme that centers around the QB. While Fitz is a fit in that a big arm is not required, he is a poor fit in that it is a precision passing offense that requires a QB that is very accurate and consistent. Does that sound like Fitz?

zone
10-05-2012, 06:54 AM
The offense is not the problem. Turnovers and a defense that can't go the distance is.

jdaltroy5
10-05-2012, 07:30 AM
Take them out of the spread and you take away their ability to run the ball effectively.

mjt328
10-05-2012, 07:30 AM
I'm assuming you are thinking the WCO of the Bill Walsh fame, in which case it is a terrible fit. While it is true that they have some pieces (Stevie Johnson is a nice fit running slants and they have backs that can catch), the most critical factor in running a WCO is the QB. It is a pass-first scheme that centers around the QB. While Fitz is a fit in that a big arm is not required, he is a poor fit in that it is a precision passing offense that requires a QB that is very accurate and consistent. Does that sound like Fitz?

Exactly.

What many Bills fans fail to realize is that our Spread Offense is already the best system for a quarterback like Fitz. It highlights his strengths and hides many of his flaws.
Chan is already getting the most out of Fitz's talent. And it's just not enough.

Bill Cody
10-05-2012, 08:43 AM
It ain't about the scheme. Fitz is not very accurate. That's it. Sorry.

justasportsfan
10-05-2012, 09:19 AM
If we use the very same blueprint we used against the browns and KC, we're golden. If we can run like we did vs. those teams, we won't have to rely on Fitz which in turn limits our risk of turnovers. Problem is, so far we havent proven we can impose our will in the running game against a well coached team like the pats. The PAts dictated to our offense as to what we should run on O . They made us go to our weakness and that was make Fitz throw deep.

On D, we have a great DL ON PAPER. We can't keep just rushing 4 and expect results when they don't live up to whats on paper. We have to mix it up. Wanny's D vs. the Pats became predictable to the point that the Pats were able to run 2 unkown runningbacks down our throats. Different scheme from Jaurons, but same results due to predictability. Even Ralph himself could have ran for over 100. We need an aggressive and physical D and I worry that that has never been Wanny's philosophy.

RedEyE
10-05-2012, 09:22 AM
It ain't about the scheme. Fitz is not very accurate. That's it. Sorry.


Yeah, I agree with this. The offense is one decent QB away from competing at a higher level. Fitz does a decent job of managing the game but he has a below average arm.

justasportsfan
10-05-2012, 09:23 AM
3. He does not get rattled, but he does get careless. When he throws an Int he tries to get a big play to erase the mess up. Its different than sulking, but its why it seems like instead of throwing short passes like most QBs do after they have a bad start, he tries to force more passes, and just racks up more INTs.


He isn't the same qb we had last year. He did get rattled when both Spiller and FJ went down. Unlike last year, he seems like he isn't so sure of himself anymore.

jdaltroy5
10-05-2012, 09:31 AM
If we use the very same blueprint we used against the browns and KC, we're golden. If we can run like we did vs. those teams, we won't have to rely on Fitz which in turn limits our risk of turnovers. Problem is, so far we havent proven we can impose our will in the running game against a well coached team like the pats. The PAts dictated to our offense as to what we should run on O . They made us go to our weakness and that was make Fitz throw deep.So the blueprint should be to play a lousy team every week. Sweet!


On D, we have a great DL ON PAPER. We can't keep just rushing 4 and expect results when they don't live up to whats on paper. We have to mix it up. Wanny's D vs. the Pats became predictable to the point that the Pats were able to run 2 unkown runningbacks down our throats. Different scheme from Jaurons, but same results due to predictability. Even Ralph himself could have ran for over 100. We need an aggressive and physical D and I worry that that has never been Wanny's philosophy.That's where I think the big problem is. Unless Wanny starts mixing it up, teams are going to look at New England and New York's game plan and just do the same thing. Some teams won't be able to just overpower our DL like that, but good teams with a good gameplan will. If we can't beat good teams, then what's the point?

Cali512
10-05-2012, 12:25 PM
You dont have to run the full out west coast offense. Im saying the formations, and basic passing scheme should be the same. But it should be run first to set up short passes. WC also utilizes alot of the play action

GingerP
10-05-2012, 12:43 PM
You dont have to run the full out west coast offense. Im saying the formations, and basic passing scheme should be the same. But it should be run first to set up short passes. WC also utilizes alot of the play action

The WCO is a pass-first precision game. They pass to set up the run.

It makes no sense to implement it on a number of levels. First of all, the coaching staff doesn't have the background. Second, the QB lacks accuracy, which is the most important trait a WCO QB needs to have. All that assumes they could switch gears mid-season, which isn't as easy as you think. They have put in their offense and rep-ed it all offseason and preseason, now you want to change it? No way they could get the reps in, and it would just look like **** no matter who was running it.

The time to change systems is the offseason, you can't change the direction of the offense at this point. They are what they are.

mjt328
10-05-2012, 01:03 PM
If we use the very same blueprint we used against the browns and KC, we're golden. If we can run like we did vs. those teams, we won't have to rely on Fitz which in turn limits our risk of turnovers. Problem is, so far we havent proven we can impose our will in the running game against a well coached team like the pats. The PAts dictated to our offense as to what we should run on O . They made us go to our weakness and that was make Fitz throw deep.


In the NFL, you can't just simply stick to the "same blueprint" over and over each week.
Eventually opponents will catch up to what you are doing (see 2011 season). Eventually, you will be forced to make plays and win games with your weakest links.

Look at the Packers last year. They were possibly the top offense in league history during the regular season, despite not having the slightest hint of a running game.
It came back to bite them against New York in the playoffs. And the offense continued to struggle this season for 3 weeks, until they finally got Cedric Benson going against the Saints.

The Bills TRIED to run the ball against the Patriots last week, but New England was clearly playing to stop the run. FJax and Spiller were getting nothing.
Chan knew this and made the proper adjustments - which was why Fitz was having some success airing it out early in the game.
Unfortunately, he also missed a couple open throws deep - which turned into picks.

I'm all for us relying heavily on the running game. I think it gives us the best chance at winning.
But at some point, teams will stack the box and jam our receivers. Fitz HAS to be able to make the defense respect his deep throws.

justasportsfan
10-05-2012, 01:50 PM
In the NFL, you can't just simply stick to the "same blueprint" over and over each week.
Eventually opponents will catch up to what you are doing (see 2011 season). Eventually, you will be forced to make plays and win games with your weakest links.

Look at the Packers last year. They were possibly the top offense in league history during the regular season, despite not having the slightest hint of a running game.
It came back to bite them against New York in the playoffs. And the offense continued to struggle this season for 3 weeks, until they finally got Cedric Benson going against the Saints.

The Bills TRIED to run the ball against the Patriots last week, but New England was clearly playing to stop the run. FJax and Spiller were getting nothing.
Chan knew this and made the proper adjustments - which was why Fitz was having some success airing it out early in the game.
Unfortunately, he also missed a couple open throws deep - which turned into picks.

I'm all for us relying heavily on the running game. I think it gives us the best chance at winning.
But at some point, teams will stack the box and jam our receivers. Fitz HAS to be able to make the defense respect his deep throws.

I never said we should stick to the same blueprint . I'm just saying that when you are able to impose your will (we haven't proven that) against better D's you can be a very good team . When good D's can't stop your running game even though they know you are going to run, you can run play action. But If you can't run at will, you're not going to be able to do play action.

I actually said the same thing you're saying. The Pats stopped the run and dared Fitz to throw and we lost. We don't have to rely solely on the run game if we had a qb who could hurt your deep if teams stack the box. Fitz hasn't been that qb.

SABURZFAN
10-05-2012, 02:37 PM
One thing i cant stand, is how we use, or dont use, Fred + Spiller together.

Here are 3 ways to make our running game 10X more explosive

1. You should have Fred and Spiller together, 85% of the time. They should always be either in the backfield, or split out wide when each is on the field. There is no reason one should be on the sideline when the other is, unless there resting. When they break the huddle, they never can change there personal in time. They never know whos gonna come out as the RB. By the time we break the huddle and they see who lines up at WR/RB, they wont have time for personal changes if needed. Or to prepare.
2. Use the Quick count. The best way to have a great running game is by doing the quick count. It keeps the D un organized, and catches them outa position. Something we should do consistantly non stop in a drive
2. FAKE PLAYS TO FRED/SPILLER AND HAND IT TO THE OTHER! The best way to open up the game with 2 great RBs, do a misdirection, have them both as the Wildcat. Im sure Fred and Spiller can throw as much and more efficiently than Brad Smith has the past few years. We have 2 great players, use them. We needa do a lot of those fake screen one way, then passing a screen the opposite, especially with Fred and Spiller being both of those players. The D would over pursue one of them and would allow a big gain
3. Use the hurry up offense. Keep the D tired, run the ball on them non stop. Hurry up, run, Hurry up, run. Screen to Spiller, then misdirection, etc etc.

STAY AWAY FROM THE SPREAD

We should be a west coast team!

West Coast is a horizontal pass scheme, which is good for a QB who can throw from 30 YDs and under with pin point accuracy at times. It works well with Fitzs strengths and weaknesses, and is largely set for players who can run after catch (Stevie, Jones, Graham, FJ, CJ, Dickerson). A smart QB like Fitz should love this offense which allows him to use all his weapons and allows him to spread the ball around. The typical west coast offense would be Fitz under center, with a RB behind him, along with a back to the left. The WC offence utilizes the HB, which we have in Dickerson, and is a quick, 3-5 step timing offence. Is perfect with a young fast OL, which we have, and needs some one who can stretch the field (Graham). The fact that we havent tried to do this already is crazy! Its so obvious and is perfect, especially from QB all the way to our HB, its perfect

3 things about Fitz

1. He needs 1-2 designed runs to get his head into the game and motivated. I have no idea why. but ever since the first game, hes recognized it and has done this quite obviously each game. Whatever works i guess, but it worries me about his mentality
2. He doesnt step up into the pocket, which is why quick passes are important. He doesnt have instinct like other QBs. If his first 3 reads are gone. He is useless. He is a smart QB, but that doesnt help you when its just instinct. But as I was saying, he doesnt step up, which is exactly why he cant hit deep passes. He puts no leg strength into his passes, he uses his arm way to much. He will either learn or wont, i dont buy that its to late to learn. Hes not a major vet thats played in hundreds of games. Hes still a QB trying to find his nitch so he will figure this out, but it may be to late when he does
3. He does not get rattled, but he does get careless. When he throws an Int he tries to get a big play to erase the mess up. Its different than sulking, but its why it seems like instead of throwing short passes like most QBs do after they have a bad start, he tries to force more passes, and just racks up more INTs.


Stevie, Graham, Jones, Chandler, and Dickerson

These should be our only WRs. We need no other passing weapons unless we stick with the pathetic spread O we do. On hail marrys, Chandler, Stevie, Jones, Graham, and Jackson should be our WRs. Maybe Dickerson too. But those should be the WRs if we would do the WCO.

Stevie NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED MORE! No matter what you say, hes our number one passing weapon. He should be the base of our passing attack. Its amazing how out of all the players, he has the least designated plays toward. Dickerson, Graham, Jones, Jackson, and Spiller all have more designated set plays than Johnson. He is an amazing route runner, and can make defenders miss after he gets the ball. We needa find some ways to get him open, and the WCO would work towards doing so


Defense

Blend the 3-4 and 4-3!


Mix it up! We have a lot of multi dimentional Defensive lineman and LBs. You know what would get to Brady? Mario lining up at RDE, then LDE, then maybe 3-4 ILB? Or maybe DT with Dareus and Williams around him with Anderson and Kelsay as OLBs? Mix it up! We needa run some 4-3 prowl. Let everyone stand up, pre snap, except Mario, then blitz and let Mario run a stunt toward the middle. The DL is based on power. We should have a major push on 3/4ths of the D and Anderson who can wiggle his way to the QB. We needa give them advantages. When a OL cant block they run screens. When a DL isnt getting pressure, blitz, and use ways to let them use there advantages. Like with what i said with the Prowl stunts. YOU SHOULD RUN AS MANY FORMATIONS AS YOUR D IS FIT TOWARD RUNNING! I have no idea why you dont mix up Defensive formations like crazy, especially when the D is 90% the same as the 3-4 D we had last year. Its so simple to put Mario, and Anderson at OLB, Dareus, Williams, and Carrington at DL. Just to mix it up and cause different things for the O to look for.

:yawn:


:z:

Mr. Pink
10-06-2012, 05:54 PM
Run the playclock down to 3 or less every play and run every down with a couple play actions and screens mixed in.

Keep the ball in the offenses hands as long as possible but least as possible in Fitz's hands.

That's how you win with this team as it's set. Basically remember Dick Jauron offense? You do that.

Problem is, it's unsustainable to win in this league like that anymore.

Skooby
10-06-2012, 08:20 PM
Run the playclock down to 3 or less every play and run every down with a couple play actions and screens mixed in.

Keep the ball in the offenses hands as long as possible but least as possible in Fitz's hands.

That's how you win with this team as it's set. Basically remember Dick Jauron offense? You do that.

Problem is, it's unsustainable to win in this league like that anymore.

Less Fitz, more success.