It's time to start talking about candidates.

[Jeff1220]

Most Bills fans are starting to call for Gailey's (and Nix's, but that's another topic) head. The problem is, as we saw when Gailey was hired, nobody else seems to want this job. So, my question is, who out there might want it that would be an upgrade? Who is a realistic assistant or college coach that is desperate enough for an NFL HC job that he'd coach the Bills?

[BertSquirtgum]

I wanted Gailey fired last year and for them to try and hire Jeff Fisher. Everyone called me an idiot. It's not that nobody wants the job. It's that nobody wants the job and the rate of pay the Bills are willing to offer. That's the reason they keep getting bottom of the barrel coaches.

[Skooby]

I wanted Gailey fired last year and for them to try and hire Jeff Fisher. Everyone called me an idiot.

Yeah, go figure.

[BertSquirtgum]

Yeah, go figure.

Too bad everyone with the opinion that I'm an idiot are all the dumb **** optimist that are changing their tunes now.

[imbondz]

Jeff Fisher never would have come here. He could basically have had any coaching job he wanted.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Bill Parcells, Brian Billick, Jim Fassel, Marty Schottenheimer, and Bill Cowher from the pro ranks. Nick Saban from Alabama.

[MTBillsFan]

Jim Tressel Head Coach
Crap, give him GM too.

[kingJofNYC]

Bill Parcells, Brian Billick, Jim Fassel, Marty Schottenheimer, and Bill Cowher from the pro ranks. Nick Saban from Alabama.
Add Santa Claus to the list. Saban makes more money than the entire Bills staff. Billick and Fassel? Fassel hasn't coached in years, no one wants him, Gailey 2.0. Billick still hasn't found another coaching job.

Realistic options, though I'm not sure they'll actually take the job, are Jay Gruden, Greg Roman, Ray Horton. Carolina is going to clean house, maybe we can land Chud to be OC along with Ray Horton as HC, Horton can also run the D.

[BLeonard]

It's not that nobody wants the job. It's that nobody wants the job and the rate of pay the Bills are willing to offer. That's the reason they keep getting bottom of the barrel coaches.

I agree with this, but would add that any candidate would also have to accept the Bills working conditions. I firmly believe that this is possibly a bigger obstacle than even money.

Guys like Bill Cowher, Marty Schottenheimer, Bill Parcells, etc, are going to want some level of control within the organization. Until the Bills are willing to give up at least some level of control, you're likely to see the same type of coaches that have been here for the past decade.

-Bill

[Jeff1220]

You guys missed the word 'realistic'. Hurkey, are you really that far in denial to think that Cowher and Fisher and guys like that would come here? By all accounts, the Bills pushed hard with real $$$$ and incentives to lure Cowher and/or Shanahan. Neither even came close to wanting the job. It wasn't because of the money.
Gibby, the only two realistic choices you give are Fassell and Billick. Either one would likely be a push when compared to Gailey.
Let's get some realistic choices that are:
a. desperate enough for an NFL HC job that they'd coach the Bills
b. has upside/not a retread.

[kingJofNYC]

Watching Cleveland '95 on the NFL Network reinforced why NFL coaches won't want to come here. Ownership instability. Belichick said he looked at every major sport and couldn't find another team that had a mid-season move announced. He wanted someone to talk to, and couldn't find another head coach who had been in a similar situation.

No coach wants to come here with the prospect of having the team moved, or ownership changing midseason.

[BertSquirtgum]

I firmly believe Bill Cowher would come here.

[YardRat]

I want to see the list of coordinators they're bringing with them.

[BLeonard]

You guys missed the word 'realistic'. Hurkey, are you really that far in denial to think that Cowher and Fisher and guys like that would come here? By all accounts, the Bills pushed hard with real $$$$ and incentives to lure Cowher and/or Shanahan. Neither even came close to wanting the job. It wasn't because of the money.

Let me ask you something: How do you know what the Bills did or didn't offer to Cowher and/or Shanahan? Keep in mind, Ralph Wilson saying he'd spend $10 million on a coach or Russ Brandon saying that "money is no object" don't mean jack. It's easy to say things like that... It's a lot more difficult to actually do them.

I have no doubts that, if offered enough money, incentives and control within the organization, guys like Bill Cowher, Jeff Fisher and other top name coaches could realistically agree to coach the Bills.

The problem is, at least IMO, the Bills aren't willing to offer what it takes for it to become realistic. Until they are, you're gonna get the same type of crap that's walked in the door for the past decade plus.

Hell, Jeff Fisher chose St. Louis... It's not like the Rams have been a powerhouse in recent years... The difference is, the Rams organization was willing to give Fisher what he wanted in order to secure his services.

-Bill

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Okay how about Mel Tjeerdsma: NCAA Division 2 coach at NW Missouri State whose teams have won multiple championships. Only problem is he's retired and probably would not want to relocate from Texas. Maybe Jim Svoboda of Central Missouri. Also a D2 coach who has taken the Mules to consecutive D2 playoff berths. Or maybe Willie Fritz who turned Central Missouri into a perennial winner before being replaced by Svoboda when he went on to Sam Houston State and took them to the NCAA FCS championship game last year. Quite honestly, I don't think this team even gets an NCAA FBS HC.

[kingJofNYC]

The Rams were sold, to a new owner that isn't go anywhere anytime soon. Yes, the Rams are always mentioned in move talks to LA, a handful of teams are, but Fisher knows who the Rams owner is for the foreseeable future, and that's really important to coaches/gms. Just ask Holmgren and Shurmer

[Jeff1220]

Bill, I'll give you the power issue - that's definitely an obstacle. No self-respecting HC is going to want a job that has Brandon and Littman pulling the strings. That is certainly a huge concern.
But there were plenty of reports, that weren't RW or RB quotes, that said the Bills had offered a ton of dough and maybe even a piece of the team to Cowher, and that was after secretly pushing hard for Shanahan (before the season was even over).
Mario Williams just got a guaranteed $50+ million. I don't think money is the biggest issue. The problem is that no one who is worth anything is going to chance destroying his legacy by taking it.
At this point, I just wish they had given the job to Fewell.

[jimmifli]

Get a first overall pick and a lot of the coaches would come here for the right money. Imagine if last season we were positioned to draft Luck and conducting a coaching search, you think those guys are going to turn down that gig?

[Jeff1220]

...and the Rams have some solid talent - Jackson at RB, #1 overall Bradford at QB, etc. And they've won one SB and been to another (as well as the playoffs several times) since the Bills were last in an sort of contention.

[kingJofNYC]

...and the Rams have some solid talent - Jackson at RB, #1 overall Bradford at QB, etc. And they've won one SB and been to another (as well as the playoffs several times) since the Bills were last in an sort of contention.

And yet until their win on Thursday, the Rams hadn't been over 500 since November 2006. Jackson is getting old, lot of miles on that car. But they're getting better and have a bunch of picks because of the RGIII trade. Need their WRs to develop, also need to upgrade the OL.

[Sammy Avalon]

As long as Ralph is at the helm it's not going to matter who calls the shots in this organization. Failure is habit at OBD.

[Sammy Avalon]

Get a first overall pick and a lot of the coaches would come here for the right money. Imagine if last season we were positioned to draft Luck and conducting a coaching search, you think those guys are going to turn down that gig?

Problem is that we're even bad at sucking really bad. All these years we never had a shot at a legitimate QB. Even when we had the second overall pick. I hate the NFL.

[BertSquirtgum]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/207976-Should-the-Bills-clean-house-if

[jimmifli]

Problem is that we're even bad at sucking really bad. All these years we never had a shot at a legitimate QB. Even when we had the second overall pick. I hate the NFL.

QBs make teams. The good ones don't just fall in your lap. You gotta go get them. That means either sucking on purpose, or trading up.

[DraftBoy]

As far as HC you bring in Bengals OC Jay Gruden for your top candidate. Great offensive mind and has maximized players with limited ceilings (Andy Dalton) and gotten plenty out of players other teams have given up on (Cedric Benson). He's also got BJE on the road to 1,000 yards and know how to develop QB and WR's.

As for my coordinators I'd go to the collegiate ranks for the DC and take a guy like Manny Diaz (Texas). Guys who know the 43 and are known for creative looks and blitzes. Aggressive minded DC.

As for an OC, Gruden will be the main guy scheming the O, but you want more than our current placeholder and somebody who can actually run the offense. Maybe see if you can lure Dennison from Houston with the Asst HC title.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

As far as HC you bring in Bengals OC Jay Gruden for your top candidate. Great offensive mind and has maximized players with limited ceilings (Andy Dalton) and gotten plenty out of players other teams have given up on (Cedric Benson). He's also got BJE on the road to 1,000 yards and know how to develop QB and WR's.

As for my coordinators I'd go to the collegiate ranks for the DC and take a guy like Manny Diaz (Texas). Guys who know the 43 and are known for creative looks and blitzes. Aggressive minded DC.

As for an OC, Gruden will be the main guy scheming the O, but you want more than our current placeholder and somebody who can actually run the offense. Maybe see if you can lure Dennison from Houston with the Asst HC title.

I always get extremely nervous bringing up college DCs, especially ones from programs with major talent advantages like Texas. Because of the limits on practice time, their concepts have to be simple by design. That's why you really see the difference in coaching in the bowl games - weeks and weeks to prepare for one opponent really demonstrates the coaching edge. That said, his program sure isn't impressing this year. They've played 3 games against BCS opponents and given up 30+ to each of them.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Bill Parcells, Brian Billick, Jim Fassel, Marty Schottenheimer, and Bill Cowher from the pro ranks. Nick Saban from Alabama.
LOL No to Saban. He's as spineless as they come.

Gruden or Cowher. I want guys with fire.

[SquishDaFish]

Cowher or Gruden for vets. Jay Gruden if go Coordinator route

[scartown]

Chip Kelly from the college ranks. He was close to getting the Bucs job last year.
Gus Bradley if going the coordinator route. I really feel he's going to be a good HC some day.

[BillsFever21]

You have to at least try. These people who say stick with Gailey because nobody else wants the job is just moronic. You try with a good coordinator and hope that you win with it. That's better then just sitting still and sticking with a proven loser(s) instead of trying.

The sad thing is as long as we have crappy people up top making the decisions we'll continue to hire crappy coaches, etc. It all starts up top and we have had nothing but bums over the past decade.

[BertSquirtgum]

I think it's so sad and I feel bad for all of us as Bills fans that we are having this conversation after week 5.

[BLeonard]

Bill, I'll give you the power issue - that's definitely an obstacle. No self-respecting HC is going to want a job that has Brandon and Littman pulling the strings. That is certainly a huge concern.
But there were plenty of reports, that weren't RW or RB quotes, that said the Bills had offered a ton of dough and maybe even a piece of the team to Cowher, and that was after secretly pushing hard for Shanahan (before the season was even over).
Mario Williams just got a guaranteed $50+ million. I don't think money is the biggest issue. The problem is that no one who is worth anything is going to chance destroying his legacy by taking it.
At this point, I just wish they had given the job to Fewell.

Regarding the "plenty of reports," from all that I read, most of these were written while talking to Ralph or Brandon. I'd love to see one that is from the Shanahan/Cowher side saying exactly what was offered and why it was turned down.

As for the Mario signing, keep in mind that player salary is all covered under the salary cap, which is all dictated and paid for by the TV contracts. Front Office and Coaches contracts, however, are not covered under the salary cap. The more you spend on Coaches and Front Office, the more comes out of your year-end profit.

Comparing player contracts to coach and front office contracts is comparing apples to oranges, since the money comes from two different places.

-Bill

[BillsFever21]

Regarding the "plenty of reports," from all that I read, most of these were written while talking to Ralph or Brandon. I'd love to see one that is from the Shanahan/Cowher side saying exactly what was offered and why it was turned down.

As for the Mario signing, keep in mind that player salary is all covered under the salary cap, which is all dictated and paid for by the TV contracts. Front Office and Coaches contracts, however, are not covered under the salary cap. The more you spend on Coaches and Front Office, the more comes out of your year-end profit.

Comparing player contracts to coach and front office contracts is comparing apples to oranges, since the money comes from two different places.

-Bill

You can still save money by being under the salary cap and banking the money as the Bills have done for years now. With the new CBA they will be forced to spend a certain percentage of it very soon though.

As far as front office/coaching staff contracts go the Bills have been going the cheap route on them for years and that's why we continue to suck. Not only is it the most important part(s) of the team that is the one area where you can enhance your chances for success without any cap restrictions that every other team has to follow too. The Bills choose to save the money and hire scrubs all the time though.

[DraftBoy]

I always get extremely nervous bringing up college DCs, especially ones from programs with major talent advantages like Texas. Because of the limits on practice time, their concepts have to be simple by design. That's why you really see the difference in coaching in the bowl games - weeks and weeks to prepare for one opponent really demonstrates the coaching edge. That said, his program sure isn't impressing this year. They've played 3 games against BCS opponents and given up 30+ to each of them.

Talent isn't there either. Vaccaro at Safety is good but the other safety position is just meh. Byndom at CB has lock down potential but again the other side is just meh. Okafor and Jeffcoat are good but not elite and the interior talent isn't there. The LB's are under sized as well.

That being said the amount of looks and blitzes Diaz cooks up are what intrigues me far more than actual results.

[DraftBoy]

If you still think Cowher or Shanny or somebody of that caliber is walking through the door I think you're going to be left very upset with the next hire. The team is in a disarray (despite our best wishes) and its in a position where it may need to be blown up and completely overhauled.

[better days]

Too bad everyone with the opinion that I'm an idiot are all the dumb **** optimist that are changing their tunes now.

Well, I am a dumb **** optimist, & I never thought of you as an idiot. But you have had much better avatars than the current one.

[better days]

If you still think Cowher or Shanny or somebody of that caliber is walking through the door I think you're going to be left very upset with the next hire. The team is in a disarray (despite our best wishes) and its in a position where it may need to be blown up and completely overhauled.

I agree. On the other hand, look at the Fins they look to be heading in the right direction.

[DraftBoy]

I agree. On the other hand, look at the Fins they look to be heading in the right direction.

And they have put a lot of work into that roster.

[better days]

And they have put a lot of work into that roster.

Well, the Bills have put a lot of work into the roster as well. I think Fitz is the main problem myself. It is hard to keep fighting for air when weighed down by an anchor

[DraftBoy]

Well, the Bills have put a lot of work into the roster as well. I think Fitz is the main problem myself. It is hard to keep fighting for air when weighed down by an anchor

Not really. They've added two name free agents and draft picks. They have often refused to cut dead weight and refused to completely retransform the roster.

[YardRat]

Perry Fewell, Rob Chudzinski and Mike Zimmer.

[better days]

Not really. They've added two name free agents and draft picks. They have often refused to cut dead weight and refused to completely retransform the roster.

Well, I think they have transformed the roster as much as possible in the amount of time they had. Compare the roster today to the last year under Dick.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I think they have transformed the roster as much as possible in the amount of time they had. Compare the roster today to the last year under Dick.

Fair enough, I think they tried to change it under the guise that we were close, which we clearly never were. That refusal to accept the reality has now cost us another 3-5 years.

[better days]

Fair enough, I think they tried to change it under the guise that we were close, which we clearly never were. That refusal to accept the reality has now cost us another 3-5 years.

Well, I may be wrong, but I think with a new GOOD QB & maybe new Coaching, the Bills could turn it around in a year or two.

[THRILLHO]

Bill Parcells, Brian Billick, Jim Fassel, Marty Schottenheimer, and Bill Cowher from the pro ranks. Nick Saban from Alabama.

No NFL team will hire Saban after what he did to Miami. It is clear he does not want to be in the NFL.
Bill Parcells seems to be done in the NFL. Coincidentally he deserted Miami too, haha.

I don't know WHO our head coach should be. After all the coaches we have had, I wonder if it even matters who is head coach.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I may be wrong, but I think with a new GOOD QB & maybe new Coaching, the Bills could turn it around in a year or two.

I disagree, I think we are at least two drafts away from the right direction.

[better days]

No NFL team will hire Saban after what he did to Miami. It is clear he does not want to be in the NFL.
Bill Parcells seems to be done in the NFL. Coincidentally he deserted Miami too, haha.

I don't know WHO our head coach should be. After all the coaches we have had, I wonder if it even matters who is head coach.

Well, Wade Phillips has said he would like another shot as a HC again & he has good memories of Buffalo. Maybe post Ralph. I would love to see Wade back in Buffalo myself.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

how about a real gm...

[Generalissimus Gibby]

No NFL team will hire Saban after what he did to Miami. It is clear he does not want to be in the NFL.
Bill Parcells seems to be done in the NFL. Coincidentally he deserted Miami too, haha.

I don't know WHO our head coach should be. After all the coaches we have had, I wonder if it even matters who is head coach.
****, how did I forget that Saban was Miami's HC a few years ago. I mean I knew Parcells was a one time Fish GM but I had forgotten about Saban.

[BertSquirtgum]

how about a real gm...

Doug Whaley is already here.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

****, how did I forget that Saban was Miami's HC a few years ago. I mean I knew Parcells was a one time Fish GM but I had forgotten about Saban.

How could you forget? He's the one that brought them Culpepper over Brees. Can you imagine how godawful this decade would have been with Brady AND Brees in our division?

[Mike]

Let me ask you something: How do you know what the Bills did or didn't offer to Cowher and/or Shanahan? Keep in mind, Ralph Wilson saying he'd spend $10 million on a coach or Russ Brandon saying that "money is no object" don't mean jack. It's easy to say things like that... It's a lot more difficult to actually do them.

I have no doubts that, if offered enough money, incentives and control within the organization, guys like Bill Cowher, Jeff Fisher and other top name coaches could realistically agree to coach the Bills.

The problem is, at least IMO, the Bills aren't willing to offer what it takes for it to become realistic. Until they are, you're gonna get the same type of crap that's walked in the door for the past decade plus.

Hell, Jeff Fisher chose St. Louis... It's not like the Rams have been a powerhouse in recent years... The difference is, the Rams organization was willing to give Fisher what he wanted in order to secure his services.

-Bill

Jeff Fisher choose ST.Louis over the Dolphins, etc... because they have a potential franchise QB in Bradford and the 2nd overall pick. After becoming HC, he could of kept Bradford or drafted RG3.

Unfortunately the Bills have been mediocre for 13+ years. No awful enough to draft a top QB or have a top pick....and as a result a team of role players

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Doug Whaley is already here.

Has never done it...

i want a winner man.

either way, if we keep nix/whaley, then we need a real coach like gruden or maybe idk, a franchise qb... ugh

[kingJofNYC]

Chip Kelly would cost money, think he makes around 4m a year after bonuses. Probably more than the entire staff. Wouldn't mind having him to be honest. Check out this article about the Pats implementing his no huddle/temp style.

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/10/08/patriots-huddle-relies-power-one/nHTapuVnBOwfFlffwTrN6J/story.html

Chan had him in Buffalo for a day or two, nothing to show for it though.

[Skooby]

Too bad everyone with the opinion that I'm an idiot are all the dumb **** optimist that are changing their tunes now.

Check my post on being in a coma / thinking we're 2-1 & going somewhere. You can't get crushed by your divisional opponents & find much success.

[Marcala12]

Get a first overall pick and a lot of the coaches would come here for the right money. Imagine if last season we were positioned to draft Luck and conducting a coaching search, you think those guys are going to turn down that gig?

The Browns are a lock for the 1st pick, but at this point it wouldn't be a shocker if we finish 4-12 and get the #2 pick.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Most Bills fans are starting to call for Gailey's (and Nix's, but that's another topic) head. The problem is, as we saw when Gailey was hired, nobody else seems to want this job. So, my question is, who out there might want it that would be an upgrade? Who is a realistic assistant or college coach that is desperate enough for an NFL HC job that he'd coach the Bills? Don't be surprised if that replacement Head Coach turns out to be Wannstedt. I hope I'm wrong. I don't want to be right on that one.

[Sammy Avalon]

QBs make teams. The good ones don't just fall in your lap. You gotta go get them. That means either sucking on purpose, or trading up.

I disagree. Good organizations put players in a positon to succeed. We should have enough talent on this team by now to be able to contend with a game managing QB like Fitz.

The Bills are highly unmotivated and heartless right now and that comes from a severe lack of leadership from the very top.

A talented QB out of college would be miscoached, thrown in the fire and burned to a pulp. That's the problem with all perennial losers. It's not the lack of a player here and a player there. It's the big picture that is rotten and putrid that doesn't allow them to succeed.

[Night Train]

The Bills need fresh coaching and a dynamic QB. The D has talent and is being schemed poorly.

I doubt Chan and Co. can save themselves from the last 6 quarters of laying down. The roster lacks direction.

[better days]

Okay how about Mel Tjeerdsma: NCAA Division 2 coach at NW Missouri State whose teams have won multiple championships. Only problem is he's retired and probably would not want to relocate from Texas. Maybe Jim Svoboda of Central Missouri. Also a D2 coach who has taken the Mules to consecutive D2 playoff berths. Or maybe Willie Fritz who turned Central Missouri into a perennial winner before being replaced by Svoboda when he went on to Sam Houston State and took them to the NCAA FCS championship game last year. Quite honestly, I don't think this team even gets an NCAA FBS HC.

A D2 Coach seriously? Who is the last D2 Coach that went to the NFL & won the Super Bowl?