Seriously? Cutler, Vick and Rivers?

[OpIv37]

Look, Fitz sucks and this team has lacked a franchise QB since Jim Kelly. At this point, there is pretty much universal agreement on this board regarding that statement. Even most of those who supported Fitz going into the season have been forced to rethink their stance. Personally, I thought we could win with Fitz as a "caretaker" QB if we had a good D and running game around him, but now it's painfully obvious that's not the case.

But let's not let our desire for a franchise QB cause us to rewrite history or lose our judgment.

Cutler is a headcase who has never been more than moderately successful. He's not a leader or a winner.

Rivers has some decent numbers, but likely wouldn't put up those numbers in Buffalo. And while he's no Cutler, he isn't mentally tough either.

Vick has been a turnover machine. And when he came back to the NFL, he had been out of the league for 2 years, and was a QB who relied on his legs more than his arm even before that. Even Philly was surprised when he played like a real QB for a season or so.

While these guys are probably all better than Fitz, none are franchise QB's and none would get us any further than a Wild Card with an early playoff exit, if that far.

This team needs a franchise QB. We don't need to trade a ****ty non-franchise QB for an average non-franchise QB. Some of you can't see the forest from the trees. "Different" isn't necessarily better, and when you're as bad as the Bills, "better" isn't necessarily good, or even necessarily good enough.

[imbondz]

out of those 3 i'd still take Rivers, even tho I agree with your take on all 3

[MikeInRoch]

He sure put on a display in the second half last night...

[Prov401]

When I think of 'franchise' QB's, and fat long term contracts, I have to envision that individual being able to lead a team to that stage with the Commissioner at the end of the season. Brady, Rodgers, P/E Manning, Roethlisbeger, and Brees are obviously in that category. They give their respective teams a chance every season to stand on that stage. Then I look at payers who haven't been there, but would certainly call a 'franchise' type of guy; Ryan, Schuab, Flacco (Luck and RG3, too early to tell, but I think they're both heading in that direction). Then there are the serviceable, Brad Johnson type of players. Rivers, Cutler, and Stafford along with a great coaching staff and all around team are worth the money, as long as everything else around them are in place IMO. Tannenhill, Locker, Weeden, Gabbert, R. Wilson, Newton, Ponder and Dalton are guys that are still too young to stamp thus far, though Dalton and Newton enjoyed good rookie seasons, they are both kind of struggling this year, so I'd give the standard three year assessment to comfortably label any of those players.

Then you have the, 'how the hell do these guys make that much money/they should be career back-ups' category. Fitz, Sanchez, Kolb, Romo, and Cassel should not be starting QB's in this league, with the exception to Romo, though he should not be making the money he's making. Palmer and Vick are past their prime, but given a chance to be in a lucky Trent Dilfer role, they can enjoy some success, however their contracts are silly at their respective ages.

[Prov401]

And to add to my post, I wouldn't trade for the mentioned QB's (Cutler, Rivers, Vick). Though if Cutler/Rivers were let go, I'd take them at a reasonable cost as they are both still young, able to make improvements to their game, and have enjoyed success in their careers.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd trade everyone on the offense besides Spiller and Johnson for any of those QBs.

They're all proven. They've all been in the playoffs. They all can win in the playoffs.

Without a QB you're going nowhere as everyone around here should know.

[Oaf]

All three are good and are playoff-caliber upgrades for 2-3 seasons more. I don't see what the problem about acquiring either of them is.

[Luisito23]

Anyone here who seriously would not want those QBs here needs to think about the question again.

[Syderick]

Heck i'd take any of these QBs. The Bills don't seem to have good scouts to find a QB via draft, trade or free agent. However you have to take in account the delusion of "Franchise Qb". He doesn't have to be 6'5 rocket arm to succeed, or be the next Jim Kelly as long as he can be himself, consistent, and reliable.

[Mouldsie]

I'd love Cutler. I'll take Lovie Smith too. Bears fans can be fickle, too bad they haven't been run out of town yet.

[BertSquirtgum]

I would take any of those three guys over Putzpatrick every time.

[YardRat]

People are getting desperate.

[Night Train]

Cutler & Rivers aren't leaders at all and have reportedly had problems in the locker room countless times. Vick is turning the ball over at a record rate.

Draft your guy in Round 1 this coming April and surround him with a good OL and proper coaching. There are more than 1-2 good QB's available this time around.

Then draft 2-3 LB's right after him...( couldn't resist )

[RedEyE]

Cutler lacks consistency.
Vick is on a downward slope and headed for another off-field implosion IMO.

I think Rivers could flourish with the right offensive scheme but his mentality, his whiny antics remind me of a much less talented Marino.

The Bills have to go after talent at QB in the draft this year. I would NOT be against them giving up the farm to take the highest QB draft prospect if they're not in a draft position to take one.

[DraftBoy]

Signals of desperate times and scary mentality.

[trapezeus]

the point isn't would you take one of those three over fitz...everyone agrees they would be better. are you looking for 5-11 team to be a 7-9 team, or are you looking for the team to make that jump. that's the point.

and i agree, getting a retread who also haven't won anything, and also come with a lot of baggage and alot of inconsistency isn't going to make things much better. it'll be mario all over again. excited a name signed and then upset that the results don't match the hype.

the bills have a shot at a decent qb in the draft. like a top 5 qb pick. they need some LB's. other than that, they look ok. they could afford to ditch a few picks to move up if the LB depth is adequate. I'd rather roll the dice there.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Anyone here who seriously would not want those QBs here needs to think about the question again.
Yup, thought about it again, and no thanks.

I'd trade my entire draft up for Barkley or Geno Smith.

[OpIv37]

Anyone here who seriously would not want those QBs here needs to think about the question again.

Like I said: they're better than Fitz. If we could trade Fitz for them straight up, I'd do it in a second, with the possible exception of Vick, and that would only be because of age.

But, in the real world, it would cost far more than it's worth to actually obtain any of these guys, and then we'd be better but still not good enough. And we may not even be that much better overall, depending on what we'd have to give up to get them.

[OpIv37]

the point isn't would you take one of those three over fitz...everyone agrees they would be better. are you looking for 5-11 team to be a 7-9 team, or are you looking for the team to make that jump. that's the point.

and i agree, getting a retread who also haven't won anything, and also come with a lot of baggage and alot of inconsistency isn't going to make things much better. it'll be mario all over again. excited a name signed and then upset that the results don't match the hype.

the bills have a shot at a decent qb in the draft. like a top 5 qb pick. they need some LB's. other than that, they look ok. they could afford to ditch a few picks to move up if the LB depth is adequate. I'd rather roll the dice there.


This.

I think a better way of expressing what I was trying to say in my first post: if we're going to give up something to get a QB, I'd rather move up in the draft for a top 2 or 3 QB prospect in the 1st round than spend resources on any of these 3. It's higher risk, but also higher reward. With these three, we'd know what we're getting, but we also know where their ceiling is.

[The King]

What about Matt Flynn, with Russell Wilson as the guy in Seattle Flynn, may be looking for work. I imagine Seattle would be fair to guy and give him a chance to play elsewhere.

[OpIv37]

I honestly don't know anything about Flynn. The situation sounds like it could be a Rob Johnson/Kelly Holcomb/Fitz deja vu (guy who never really got his shot moving to a new team to challenge for the starting position), but I don't want to make that assumption without actually seeing the guy play.

[The King]

I honestly don't know anything about Flynn. The situation sounds like it could be a Rob Johnson/Kelly Holcomb/Fitz deja vu (guy who never really got his shot moving to a new team to challenge for the starting position), but I don't want to make that assumption without actually seeing the guy play.

He beat up on the Patriots in one start and set Packer records in his other start, definitely a risk, but I see him more like Schaub than RJ.

[Night Train]

Yup, thought about it again, and no thanks.

I'd trade my entire draft up for Barkley or Geno Smith.

What a Ditka.

[stuckincincy]

What a Ditka.


:kid:

[Bill Cody]

Cutler is a headcase who has never been more than moderately successful. He's not a leader or a winner.



If we could replace Fitz's arm with Cutler's you'd really have something. Having said that, despite Cutler being a strange guy who is hard to like I'd take him here in a heartbeat. I get your point but I'm not sure I agree. You could win with Cutler under the right circumstances. He reminds me a bit of Tony Romo, another guy that's kind of a tease. But it's not clear we'll ever draft an NFL starter at QB never mind the top 5 "franchise" player you're talking about. Fitz has the arm of a 12 year old girl. He makes Joe Kapp look like John Elway. I can't take it anymore.

[Mouldsie]

I'd trade my entire draft up for Barkley
Can we quote you on that?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If we could replace Fitz's arm with Cutler's you'd really have something. Having said that, despite Cutler being a strange guy who is hard to like I'd take him here in a heartbeat. I get your point but I'm not sure I agree. You could win with Cutler under the right circumstances. He reminds me a bit of Tony Romo, another guy that's kind of a tease. But it's not clear we'll ever draft an NFL starter at QB never mind the top 5 "franchise" player you're talking about. Fitz has the arm of a 12 year old girl. He makes Joe Kapp look like John Elway. I can't take it anymore.

If Cutler didn't have that arm he wouldn't be in the NFL. Dude has the worst intangibles I've ever seen. It's worth noting that Chicago, which hasn't had an excellent QB since the War of Northern Aggression, is turning on him.

[OpIv37]

I hope to hell it's not Barkley. I don't want to have to root for USC trash.

It would be just my luck that the Bills would finally get a good QB, but every time they win, they'll be showing clips of Barkley at USC beating ND.

[BertSquirtgum]

Putzpatrick for Flynn. Lets do it.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I hope to hell it's not Barkley. I don't want to have to root for USC trash.

It would be just my luck that the Bills would finally get a good QB, but every time they win, they'll be showing clips of Barkley at USC beating ND.

Jimmy Clausen is available.

[Lexwhat]

Look, Fitz sucks and this team has lacked a franchise QB since Jim Kelly. At this point, there is pretty much universal agreement on this board regarding that statement. Even most of those who supported Fitz going into the season have been forced to rethink their stance. Personally, I thought we could win with Fitz as a "caretaker" QB if we had a good D and running game around him, but now it's painfully obvious that's not the case.

But let's not let our desire for a franchise QB cause us to rewrite history or lose our judgment.

Cutler is a headcase who has never been more than moderately successful. He's not a leader or a winner.

Rivers has some decent numbers, but likely wouldn't put up those numbers in Buffalo. And while he's no Cutler, he isn't mentally tough either.

Vick has been a turnover machine. And when he came back to the NFL, he had been out of the league for 2 years, and was a QB who relied on his legs more than his arm even before that. Even Philly was surprised when he played like a real QB for a season or so.

While these guys are probably all better than Fitz, none are franchise QB's and none would get us any further than a Wild Card with an early playoff exit, if that far.

This team needs a franchise QB. We don't need to trade a ****ty non-franchise QB for an average non-franchise QB. Some of you can't see the forest from the trees. "Different" isn't necessarily better, and when you're as bad as the Bills, "better" isn't necessarily good, or even necessarily good enough.

I started the thread on Vick, and I think my point may not have come across clear. In that thread, I said that I am all in favor of drafting a QB in the next draft. Whether that rookie starts in the 1st season, or 2nd, or 3rd, really depends on how much success Vick would have in a Bills uniform.

Aren't you the one that wants to upgrade at any chance we get? Aren't you the one who always complains about depending on Rookies?

I never said Vick was "good enough." In fact, I basically said the opposite. The bottom line is that I think we get farther with Vick behind center than we would with Fitzpatrick. Some people don't think so, and that's fair -- but we shall agree to disagree. Vick can run, and he can throw a great deep ball -- 2 things Fitzpatrick can't really do. In fact, Fitz can barely throw much of anything... At the end of the day, I think we would put more points on the board with Vick than we currently are with Fitz.... Yes, Vick has a turnover issue, but Fitzpatrick is a turnover machine as well. If both players were wearing a Bills uniform right now, would you (or anyone else) seriously tell me you want Fitzpatrick starting over Vick? Have we been watching the same games?

Let me give you some examples: The Vikings went with McNabb for a few games before going with Ponder. The Titans went with Matt Hasselbeck for a season before turning to Jake Locker. We all know the Aaron Rodgers story... Why is it such a bad idea to pick up a vet QB who gives us a better chance to win "now," while simultaneously developing a legitimate franchise rookie QB at the same time?

[Lone Stranger]

I believe that OP's assessment is right on. I'm not a Fitz' lover, rather the ooposite, but there are worse in the league.

[BertSquirtgum]

I believe that OP's assessment is right on. I'm not a Fitz' lover, rather the ooposite, but there are worse in the league.

No, there isn't.

[OpIv37]

I started the thread on Vick, and I think my point may not have come across clear. In that thread, I said that I am all in favor of drafting a QB in the next draft. Whether that rookie starts in the 1st season, or 2nd, or 3rd, really depends on how much success Vick would have in a Bills uniform.

Aren't you the one that wants to upgrade at any chance we get? Aren't you the one who always complains about depending on Rookies?

I never said Vick was "good enough." In fact, I basically said the opposite. The bottom line is that I think we get farther with Vick behind center than we would with Fitzpatrick. Some people don't think so, and that's fair -- but we shall agree to disagree. Vick can run, and he can throw a great deep ball -- 2 things Fitzpatrick can't really do. In fact, Fitz can barely throw much of anything... At the end of the day, I think we would put more points on the board with Vick than we currently are with Fitz.... Yes, Vick has a turnover issue, but Fitzpatrick is a turnover machine as well. If both players were wearing a Bills uniform right now, would you (or anyone else) seriously tell me you want Fitzpatrick starting over Vick? Have we been watching the same games?

Let me give you some examples: The Vikings went with McNabb for a few games before going with Ponder. The Titans went with Matt Hasselbeck for a season before turning to Jake Locker. We all know the Aaron Rodgers story... Why is it such a bad idea to pick up a vet QB who gives us a better chance to win "now," while simultaneously developing a legitimate franchise rookie QB at the same time?

Here's the problem: getting Vick won't be free. We'd have to give up something in a trade. Is it worth it for a rent-a-player? Is Vick going to get us enough wins to compensate for whatever we give up to get him?

I suppose it's impossible to answer that without knowing what the asking price will be. But I really just see all of these 3 as more expensive versions of Fitz. Granted, they're better, but not so much better that we're actually going to win. If we get any one of them, we'll be having this same discussion in 2 years, maybe less.

[Mike]

You should have included a poll.

I would go with them in the following order:

1. Rivers: my clear first choice. He was on his way to becoming an elite QB than its like someone dimmed the lights. Did you know he has 6 kids? All I have to say is, Holly Mother Focker, thats a lot of kids. Heck, he could have his own TV show "Redneck with 6 Kids Livin in SD"... Ha lets get back to football. His arm strength and accuracy are good. Sure he looks like a pansy with that delivery, but at least the ball gets there. He is able to make things happen on the field, and considering how bad his WR are, thats a lot. In the championship game a few years back, he showed me a lot. He almost willed SD to a win vs the Pats, almost and I really liked his fire in that game. They almost won. Now compare that to Cutler's championship game and tell me which one you prefer.

2. Cutler: I miss the Cutler of the Shanahan days. That guy was great. Well, at least on the field. I have two problems with Cutler, well maybe more than two, but I'll start and stop at two. First, he is a crybaby pussy, well they do go hand in hand. I recall that Championship game, obviously I really don't know how injured he was, but I do know how it looked. As for being a crybaby, its well documented. Second, he is good but not great. I don't think he will miss the open WR like Fitz misses the open WR (either by not seeing them or not being able to get them the ball) but he is no Manning either. I think he is as good as his offense and his success depends on what the defense gives him. This year's performance should tell more of the story now that he actually has WR to throw to.

3. Vick: I love the potential but he is a turnover machine who I think will never get back to MVP worthy form. He had one truly great season and a few amazingly entertaining season. He is like eating a juicy hamburger, very fun and delicious but nothing of substance, and he's getting older.

[Ingtar33]

I'd take Rivers in a heartbeat. He probably will never be a winner or elite, but he's lightyears better then what we have.

You can keep Cutler and Vick... of the two, Cutler is the closest to a serviceable QB, the problem is he's Jeff George v.2 the very definition of locker-room cancer. That said he's never had the tools on offense he'd have here. Not sure he'd match our system, and a lot of his sacks are a result of him holding the ball too long, not his O-line. Boarderline, but i'd pass on him unless he was a FA. Of course Cutler walked out on the bears in the NFC championship game... i can't forgive that, fans here would hate him.

Vick is the same guy he was in year 3... highly inaccurate, slow to make a decision, too fast to run, sloppy with the football, and fragile. When he's in the 'zone' he's amazing. When he's against a defense that likes to zone blitz it's CBs, he turns into a steaming pile of crap (other then trent edwards vs the 3-4 i've never seen an NFL qb so unable to adjust to a defensive strategy as Vick... the zone blitzing CB strategy has worked against Vick his whole career... and teams STILL throw it at him to great success.). the rest of the time he's a mediocre to average QB with some dangerous legs. No thank you. The first guy to revolt with Vick in the locker room would be stevie johnson, because he'd never see the ball again because Vick can't hit WRs.

[mead107]

Our o line could give Vick time to throw.