Anxious for any inside info!

[Mr. Miyagi]

Has anyone heard anything more reliable than just some faceless dudes from another board, who claims to know somebody who knows somebody?

[Skooby]

Coach?????

[mrbojanglezs]

A poster I trust on another site who has a source said a couple of trade names being tossed around at OBD. One being bowe. Another being a "current starting qb" my guess is Vick. And the third is a LBer

[BertSquirtgum]

A poster I trust on another site who has a source said a couple of trade names being tossed around at OBD. One being bowe. Another being a "current starting qb" my guess is Vick. And the third is a LBer

Dolphinflavoredtuna.

[Crisis]

Any word on Byrd/Levitre extensions?

[Night Train]

Another being a "current starting qb" my guess is Vick.

He'll be inactive until 2013, so he can learn the playbook. See Tavaris Jackson.

[kishoph]

Please no Michael Vick, it would probably lessen the urgency to draft a QB in this years draft, at least in OBD's eyes. I think there's a good crop of QB's in this draft, we need make getting one of them a priority.

[The King]

He'll be inactive until 2013, so he can learn the playbook. See Tavaris Jackson.
Exactly, no way this move happens

[trapezeus]

i trust the bills have to be asking about it. but it's probably the old reiger line, "we like to see whta is available and what the costs are. it doesn't mean anything is imminent."

I wonder what the names on the list for QB's could possibly be. So many teams that are 3-3 with the feeling that they are doing ok and have a chance to separate from the pack. i can't imagine any big names moving. and the only way it could is if we move a RB. I don't want to do that. although, freddie is getting older, but we have to rely solely on CJ and if he goes down, that's the season. and further more,the qb we get back would have to be able to lessen that risk and be a game winner, not a game manager. who trades winners?

[clumping platelets]

Romo

[trapezeus]

who is dallas' backup? just out of curiousity?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Coach?????

Coach gets paid for that stuff now, I imagine if he knows anything it will be on his show.

[tatersalad]

who is dallas' backup? just out of curiousity?

Orton

[ServoBillieves]

According to Madden, we're trading for Ray Lewis when I turn off IR for the season.

[Skooby]

According to Madden, we're trading for Ray Lewis when I turn off IR for the season.

Go figure.

[TigerJ]

My real name is Buddy and. . .

[BertSquirtgum]

Colt Mccoy anyone?

[Slim]

A poster I trust on another site who has a source said a couple of trade names being tossed around at OBD. One being bowe. Another being a "current starting qb" my guess is Vick. And the third is a LBer

Which site? TBD? The range? BBMB? I haven't seen anything anywhere about a QB.

[BertSquirtgum]

Which site? TBD? The range? BBMB? I haven't seen anything anywhere about a QB.

BBmB. Check out dolphinflavoredtuna's posts.

[Slim]

BBmB. Check out dolphinflavoredtuna's posts.

Thanks. Tuna has seemed to have had inside info in the past.

[mrbojanglezs]

Here is his latest:

http://boards.buffalobills.com/member.php?16664-dolphinflavoredtuna


I can't speak to anyone else's Merrits on here outside of the people I know personally. Between the multiple Bowe posts I can tell you there is a lot of info floating around that I don't feel is accurate based off of what I've heard. To answer your question, without giving too much info, I believe wholly that Fitz has lost his locker room and the front office. Chan has seen solid play out of Fitz so his quest is for consistency. I will say after finding some info out regarding the validity of the QB trade they were kicking around, it is looking like this season will live and die with Fitz. I don't foresee us pulling the trigger. I know that QB is the teams top offseason priority.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Duh. I'm as disconnected to the inside as you can be and I could have, and have, said the exact same thing.

We're stuck with Fitz this season. We'll draft a QB high in April.

Call me Adam Schefter.

[k-oneputt]

Here is his latest:

http://boards.buffalobills.com/member.php?16664-dolphinflavoredtuna

Qb has been the top prority for a dozen years. The problem is, and has been, the so called experts in the front office and their lack of skill at identifying talent, especially at the qb position.
Did anyone here actually believe Fitz was going to come into Buffalo and be that frachise qb ??????, well the experts at OBD did. It is mindboggling how inept the people are who have been running this team.
The most importabt position and we are always running with a 2nd rate player since Kelly and we don't even need to get into all the f-ups with the other positions over the years.

[zone]

Building the team first and then inserting the qb is the way to go. We tried the other way for years and ruined every qb we had with potential.

[k-oneputt]

Terrible coaching and stupid front office decisions ruined Losman and Edwards.
Not saying they would have become the 'franchise" guy but they had some talents. More then Fitz.

[trapezeus]

i actually don't think the billls did think Fitz was the answer. i think they thought he was a good back up (which he is...i'd take a guy who could be .500 on average as my back up every single day).

I made an analogy to vikram pandit. People knew he wasn't the guy to lead citigroup, but once everything started to fall apart, he was the least of their concerns. once the bank stablized, it was clear his lack of ability was going to inhibit growth. But they needed someone to sheppard them through that process.

That is exactly who fitz was. i think the bills looked to give edwards a try. he came highly regarded, and like the current incarnation of fitz, had shown flashes of decent play. And when it was obvious he wasn't the guy and htat the team as a whole was going ot take some time, they tried to just push him in there. I agree with it. i think the bills have found their offensive style, they have a line that can play well and a good running game. now is the time to find a young QB with intangibles and who can manage a game.

as for the inside info, if the guy does have inside info, it's nice to know that the front office is thinking like the rest of us for a change. because for 12 years, i've seen most of this board accurately dissect our needs and watch the front office pick other players.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Terrible coaching and stupid front office decisions ruined Losman and Edwards.
Not saying they would have become the 'franchise" guy but they had some talents. More then Fitz.
JP maybe. Edwards has never had talent.

[zone]

JP maybe. Edwards has never had talent.

Pre-concussion he sure did.

[imbondz]

Pre-concussion he sure did.

Agreed. I thought Edwards had a shot at being really good until he got knocked out

[zone]

Agreed. I thought Edwards had a shot at being really good until he got knocked out

knocked the **** out.

[mrbojanglezs]

@incarceratedbob: So Bills fans that said my Dwayne Bowe rumor was full of s**t... Umm talk up now #BillsMafia speak up #Forum haters make sure u talk tough

@incarceratedbob: @Mike_pep Not traded yet but Bills officials confirm they are in talks with KC

[jdaltroy5]

Building the team first and then inserting the qb is the way to go. We tried the other way for years and ruined every qb we had with potential.

That's not necessarily true.

A elite QB will win with average talent around him.

And I wouldn't say that we've tried for years to find one either. We've only drafted one QB in the first round since Kelly retired. Since then we've been plugging in castoffs and mid/late rounders.

[jdaltroy5]

@incarceratedbob: So Bills fans that said my Dwayne Bowe rumor was full of s**t... Umm talk up now #BillsMafia speak up #Forum haters make sure u talk tough

@incarceratedbob: @Mike_pep Not traded yet but Bills officials confirm they are in talks with KC

If I had twitter I would still **** talk that douche.

The guy said that Clabo was signed to Buffalo, done deal.

He just guesses or regurgitates rumours.

[BertSquirtgum]

If I had twitter I would still **** talk that douche.

The guy said that Clabo was signed to Buffalo, done deal.

He just guesses or regurgitates rumours.

Bob was the only person that said Mario didn't leave Buffalo, so he's not always wrong.

[blln4lyf]

Bob was the only person that said Mario didn't leave Buffalo, so he's not always wrong.

Saying random **** will prove to be right at times. People follow/listen to him because idiots notice his exceptions. Guess your one of them..

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't have twitter. Good try though.

[better days]

That's not necessarily true.

A elite QB will win with average talent around him.

And I wouldn't say that we've tried for years to find one either. We've only drafted one QB in the first round since Kelly retired. Since then we've been plugging in castoffs and mid/late rounders.

Well, I agree with zone. In the first place, VERY, VERY, VERY few QBS come into the NFL as an elite NFL QB. The vast majority of elite QBs have had a chance to develop into that after they were drafted. MANY QBs that showed the potential to be ELITE, were ruined because they were drafted by BAD teams & never got the chance to develop. David Carr comes to mind off the top of my head. Who can say what kind of QB he may have been if drafted by a good team?

When the Bills draft a QB at least now he will have some weapons on the field with him. Had they drafted one before, that would not have been the case.

[SABURZFAN]

JP maybe. Edwards has never had talent.

keep telling yourself that. Edwards is on an NFL roster while Lossman is selling sneakers at a Foot Locker somewhere.

[The last buffalo fan]

keep telling yourself that. Edwards is on an NFL roster while Lossman is selling sneakers at a Foot Locker somewhere.

My guess is that everytime you mention or hear JP's name, you have an erection. :ill:

[YardRat]

Qb has been the top prority for a dozen years. The problem is, and has been, the so called experts in the front office and their lack of skill at identifying talent, especially at the qb position.
Did anyone here actually believe Fitz was going to come into Buffalo and be that frachise qb ??????, well the experts at OBD did. It is mindboggling how inept the people are who have been running this team.
The most importabt position and we are always running with a 2nd rate player since Kelly and we don't even need to get into all the f-ups with the other positions over the years.

No, they didn't, otherwise Fitz would have beat out Edwards in the QB 'competition'.

[YardRat]

That's not necessarily true.

A elite QB will win with average talent around him.

And I wouldn't say that we've tried for years to find one either. We've only drafted one QB in the first round since Kelly retired. Since then we've been plugging in castoffs and mid/late rounders.

Do we really need to run through the list of attempts at finding a franchise QB, and how many first-rounders we actually spent trying to get one?

The effort has been there, the decisions and results have just been ****ty.

[jdaltroy5]

Do we really need to run through the list of attempts at finding a franchise QB, and how many first-rounders we actually spent trying to get one?

The effort has been there, the decisions and results have just been ****ty.

Yes, please go through the list of attempts since drafting JP Losman almost a decade ago.

[Slim]

Yes, please go through the list of attempts since drafting JP Losman almost a decade ago.

We traded two first round picks for QB's as well. So first round picks= 3 QB's. But obviously, none since JP.

[jdaltroy5]

We traded two first round picks for QB's as well. So first round picks= 3 QB's. But obviously, none since JP.

That's the point. I know we traded for Johnson and Bledsoe, but that was OVER a decade ago. Coincidentally, Bledsoe also had us at the brink of the playoffs and was the best QB we've had in the last 15 years.

It's almost like we got gun-shy and gave up on trying to go after a QB.

[YardRat]

Yes, please go through the list of attempts since drafting JP Losman almost a decade ago.

You have to make up your mind, and quit moving the boundary to suit your argument. First it's back to Kelly, now it's only back to Losman. Do you want to change to Edwards next?

[jdaltroy5]

You have to make up your mind, and quit moving the boundary to suit your argument. First it's back to Kelly, now it's only back to Losman. Do you want to change to Edwards next?

I'm saying Bledsoe is the best QB since Kelly. You brought up Bledsoe, not me.

I can't really say Bledsoe was the best QB since Losman can I?

Look, at the end of the day, we all know the Bills don't have a QB. They've pretty much known Losman wasn't elite since 2006. And since Losman, they've pretty much given up on trying.

[zone]

I'm saying Bledsoe is the best QB since Kelly. You brought up Bledsoe, not me.

I can't really say Bledsoe was the best QB since Losman can I?

Look, at the end of the day, we all know the Bills don't have a QB. They've pretty much known Losman wasn't elite since 2006. And since Losman, they've pretty much given up on trying.

Not to beat the dead horse but Losman was never going to be the answer. Stupid draft pick and even dumber decision to hand him the keys and dump Bledsoe. One of the most annoying things that happened over the years of garbage decisions.

[jdaltroy5]

Not to beat the dead horse but Losman was never going to be the answer. Stupid draft pick and even dumber decision to hand him the keys and dump Bledsoe. One of the most annoying things that happened over the years of garbage decisions.

Yeah, maybe. But does that mean that they should just give up trying?

Can anyone actually look me in the digital eye and say that the Bills have done everything they could to upgrade the QB position over the last decade?

[X-Era]

Yeah, maybe. But does that mean that they should just give up trying?

Can anyone actually look me in the digital eye and say that the Bills have done everything they could to upgrade the QB position over the last decade?
What they didn't do is invest a high first rounder in one.

Did they trade a 1st rounder for a "young up and comer"? Yes, Rob Johnson. (actually it was a 1st and a 4th).
Did they trade up into the 1st for one? Yes, JP Losman.
Did they trade a 1st rounder for a proven SB QB? Yes, Drew Bledsoe.

The only move they haven't made is to get one high in the 1st round... And it may take that.

The problem I have is that I'm not a huge fan of this QB draft in the 1st or high 1st round.

But what does this have to do with the OP?

[jdaltroy5]

What they didn't do is invest a high first rounder in one.

Did they trade a 1st rounder for a "young up and comer"? Yes, Rob Johnson. (actually it was a 1st and a 4th).
Did they trade up into the 1st for one? Yes, JP Losman.
Did they trade a 1st rounder for a proven SB QB? Yes, Drew Bledsoe.

The only move they haven't made is to get one high in the 1st round... And it may take that.

The problem I have is that I'm not a huge fan of this QB draft in the 1st or high 1st round.

But what does this have to do with the OP?

Sorry, sometimes I go off on a bit of a tangent.

[YardRat]

I'm saying Bledsoe is the best QB since Kelly. You brought up Bledsoe, not me.

I can't really say Bledsoe was the best QB since Losman can I?

Look, at the end of the day, we all know the Bills don't have a QB. They've pretty much known Losman wasn't elite since 2006. And since Losman, they've pretty much given up on trying.

I didn't bring up Bledsoe directly...he's not the only QB we gave up first rounders for since Kelly, per your original assertion.

A change in strategy does not = 'giving up'. After years of trying to replace Kelly with trades, free agents, and draft picks (continually failing and putting the team deeper in the talent hole in the process, btw) somebody finally came along and realized that the defense and offensive line needs to be fixed first. Kudos to them, it was about time they caught up.

But, yes, I agree...it's time to get a QB.

[YardRat]

What they didn't do is invest a high first rounder in one.

Did they trade a 1st rounder for a "young up and comer"? Yes, Rob Johnson. (actually it was a 1st and a 4th).
Did they trade up into the 1st for one? Yes, JP Losman.
Did they trade a 1st rounder for a proven SB QB? Yes, Drew Bledsoe.

The only move they haven't made is to get one high in the 1st round... And it may take that.

The problem I have is that I'm not a huge fan of this QB draft in the 1st or high 1st round.

But what does this have to do with the OP?

Yet, go back through the drafts. I put a list together at some point, somewhere, and with the exception of (I believe) Big Ben the team didn't really have a legitimate shot at a highly ranked QB without giving up the farm to move up or 'reaching'.

[jdaltroy5]

I didn't bring up Bledsoe directly...he's not the only QB we gave up first rounders for since Kelly, per your original assertion.

A change in strategy does not = 'giving up'. After years of trying to replace Kelly with trades, free agents, and draft picks (continually failing and putting the team deeper in the talent hole in the process, btw) somebody finally came along and realized that the defense and offensive line needs to be fixed first. Kudos to them, it was about time they caught up.

But, yes, I agree...it's time to get a QB.
Um actually look at the first thing I said. I said we haven't really tried at all since Losman. You brought up Bledsoe and Johnson. I said Bledsoe was the best QB since Kelly.

Anyway, I think we're on the same page. Time to go for a QB.

[Mr. Pink]

Um actually look at the first thing I said. I said we haven't really tried at all since Losman. You brought up Bledsoe and Johnson. I said Bledsoe was the best QB since Kelly.

Anyway, I think we're on the same page. Time to go for a QB.


Besides, we've only tried 2 different QBs since Losman. So should we be trying new QBs every year til one guy who comes out and performs from Day 1? We also are only into the 4th season since Losman left so should we be on QB 4 right now? We drafted Edwards and gave him a shot to take the reigns, it failed, so we replaced him with Fitz who showed promise but now is looking like a failure too.

Plus we signed a former first round QB in VY.

I wouldn't say we haven't tried. We just haven't been successful.

[jdaltroy5]

Besides, we've only tried 2 different QBs since Losman. So should we be trying new QBs every year til one guy who comes out and performs from Day 1? We also are only into the 4th season since Losman left so should we be on QB 4 right now? We drafted Edwards and gave him a shot to take the reigns, it failed, so we replaced him with Fitz who showed promise but now is looking like a failure too.

Plus we signed a former first round QB in VY.

I wouldn't say we haven't tried. We just haven't been successful.

Well if you consider signing former 7th round castoffs and praying that 3rd rounders work out, then sure, we're trying like hell.

Putting someone end there with a red jersey on in practice doesn't constitute trying in my books.

[X-Era]

Yet, go back through the drafts. I put a list together at some point, somewhere, and with the exception of (I believe) Big Ben the team didn't really have a legitimate shot at a highly ranked QB without giving up the farm to move up or 'reaching'.
I agree there. We had the 4 pick (Mike Williams) and the 3 pick (Marcell Dareus), but outside of that, lot's of 8-23 picks.

When do we give up the farm to take on the "city"?

[Mr. Pink]

Well if you consider signing former 7th round castoffs and praying that 3rd rounders work out, then sure, we're trying like hell.

Putting someone end there with a red jersey on in practice doesn't constitute trying in my books.

And both of those guys Edwards and Fitzpatrick showed promise at the beginning of their stints as QB here. So because they weren't first round picks we should have just gave up on them instantaneously instead?

Again, this is year 4 without Losman. So how many first round QBs or different QBs should we have tried out behind center to make it look like the team was "trying?"

And what QBs should we have drafted from 09 til now? Weeden? Locker? Tebow? Freeman? That's the 4 QBs selected respectively after our pick from 09 - 12.

[YardRat]

I agree there. We had the 4 pick (Mike Williams) and the 3 pick (Marcell Dareus), but outside of that, lot's of 8-23 picks.

When do we give up the farm to take on the "city"?

Pretty soon, IMO, if we even have to. It certainly isn't unheard of or unusual for a successful QB to be drafted out of the top 10 of the first, obviously.

[jdaltroy5]

And both of those guys Edwards and Fitzpatrick showed promise at the beginning of their stints as QB here. So because they weren't first round picks we should have just gave up on them instantaneously instead? No, you don't give up on them instantaneously, but you don't pass up on good options because you have a mid or late round guy who "showed promise."


Again, this is year 4 without Losman. So how many first round QBs or different QBs should we have tried out behind center to make it look like the team was "trying?"That's BS and you know it. If you went into the 2008 season thinking that Losman still had a chance to be a franchise QB, then you're delusional.


And what QBs should we have drafted from 09 til now? Weeden? Locker? Tebow? Freeman? That's the 4 QBs selected respectively after our pick from 09 - 12.Believe it or not, in my last two mock drafts on the range, I had Ponder and Dalton. They would be a HUGE upgrade over Fitz. Locker would've been better too.

[Mr. Pink]

No, you don't give up on them instantaneously, but you don't pass up on good options because you have a mid or late round guy who "showed promise."

That's BS and you know it. If you went into the 2008 season thinking that Losman still had a chance to be a franchise QB, then you're delusional.

Believe it or not, in my last two mock drafts on the range, I had Ponder and Dalton. They would be a HUGE upgrade over Fitz. Locker would've been better too.

Dalton was a 2nd rounder and by what you said wouldn't have been "trying." You stated only first rounders qualified for "trying." We tried taking on Brian Brohm who was a 2008 2nd round pick by a team who as of late has been good at picking QBs in the draft, just not on Brohm obviously.

Ponder is terrible. Locker can't stay healthy and is a turnover machine. Tebow shouldn't be an NFL QB. Weeden is Chris Weinke 2.0. Freeman? I don't know what to make of him.

So you go back to 08 then and take a 1st round QB and you end up with....Joe Flacco. Which we took Edwards in 07 with a 3rd round pick and he saw the field for 10 games and looked pretty respectable so drafting a QB in the first round in 08 would have never happened with anyone at the helm. In 2008 Edwards actually showed some progression especially early in the season, so a team likely will ride it out into the following year to see if he could build on that or fall on his face. He fell on his face.

So that leaves 10,11,12 to draft a QB in the first round. 2010 Ryan Fitzpatrick started and actually had a good season. So that takes care of drafting a QB in 2011. 2011, he didn't improve and showed minor regression but he was given the big money after a hot start, so that leaves you out of drafting a QB in the first round of 2012.

Where does this leave things at? Before allowing Fitzpatrick to show he had something you drafted a guy. That was 2010. 2010 was realistically the only place between Losman and now to draft a 1st round QB. So instead of taking Spiller at 9, we should have taken Tebow?

Would drafting Tebow at 9 constitute trying to you?

[jdaltroy5]

Dalton was a 2nd rounder and by what you said wouldn't have been "trying." You stated only first rounders qualified for "trying." We tried taking on Brian Brohm who was a 2008 2nd round pick by a team who as of late has been good at picking QBs in the draft, just not on Brohm obviously.Taking Dalton in the second would've been trying harder than we have been.


Ponder is terrible. He;s on pace for almost 4000 yards, over 20 TDs and only 10 INTs with a 92 QBR. BTW, his team is 4-2. If he's terrible, what is Fitz?


Locker can't stay healthy and is a turnover machine. Turnover machine? Did you even bother to look that up? He's thrown 2 picks in his ENTIRE career. Not to mention he just had his first injury.


And he Tebow shouldn't be an NFL QB.Better playoff record than any Bills QB since Kelly.


Weeden is Chris Weinke 2.0.Maybe, but I still have to admire Cleveland for at least trying to get a QB. I thought it was a stupid pick, but at least they're trying.


So you go back to 08 then and take a 1st round QB and you end up with....Joe Flacco. Which we took Edwards in 07 with a 3rd round pick and he saw the field for 10 games and looked pretty respectable so drafting a QB in the first round in 08 would have never happened with anyone at the helm. In 2008 Edwards actually showed some progression especially early in the season, so a team likely will ride it out into the following year to see if he could build on that or fall on his face. He fell on his face.See that's the problem. You have a third round QB that threw more INTs than TDs, had a piss poor completion percentage, and a pathetic YPA, and you think, "hey we have a guy with potential! Better pass on him for a CB! He can return punts too!"


So that leaves 10,11,12 to draft a QB in the first round.Sure, if you want to ignore all that other stuff.


2010 Ryan Fitzpatrick started and actually had a good season. THAT'S a good season?? They lost their first 8 games. They picked third overall. It's sad that we've sunk so low that Bills fans think that was a good season.


So that takes care of drafting a QB in 2011It absolutely should not have.


2011, he didn't improve and showed minor regressionMINOR regression? Are you serious? You got hit with the regression truck and fell off the regression cliff.


but he was given the big money after a hot start, so that leaves you out of drafting a QB in the first round of 2012.Why???? He clearly sucked and was a major reason why we tanked the end of the season.


Where does this leave things at? Before allowing Fitzpatrick to show he had something you drafted a guy. That was 2010. 2010 was realistically the only place between Losman and now to draft a 1st round QB. So instead of taking Spiller at 9, we should have taken Tebow? Sure, if you want to make up a bunch of BS to suit your argument. ANY season would've been a good season to draft a QB.


Would drafting Tebow at 9 constitute trying to you?Yeah, it would've.

All I hear is excuses from people. Do you HONESTLY think that the Bills have tried as hard as they can to get a franchise QB. I'm sorry but saying, "Hey Fitz threw some TDs that one time, forget about the previous 6 years that he sucked, THIS is his year!"

There are guys that have been drafted AFTER our picks that are ALREADY better than Fitz, so yeah, we haven't been trying hard enough.

[Mr. Pink]

If you'd really draft another QB after watching your starter throw for 3000 yards, 23 TDs, 15 INTs and a 81.8 Rating there really isn't a point to this discussion. NO team would go out and draft a First Round QB after watching a 27 year old guy do that. Not a one. That is what Fitz did here in his first full season behind center which was 2010. He slightly regressed last season from his 2010 performance 3800 yards, 24 TDs, 23 INTs and a 79.1 Rating. Stats don't tell the whole story obviously as from 2010 til the midway point of 2011 Fitz actually looked good without even quoting the stats. Midway through 11 til now he's been a tire fire, whatever that reason is, who knows. But until now there's NO way any team would have entertained drafting a 1st round QB with the production Fitzpatrick gave from opening weekend 2010 through midway 2011.

I'm more than willing to give you that the 2010 Draft we could have drafted a QB high. I said could have because none of the guys in the 2010 draft were all that great that were available to us. Tebow, Clausen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, John Skelton or even the guy we did end up taking Levi Brown. I'd rather have Fitz than any of those guys not that Fitz is any good.

Then you try to claim drafting Dalton in the 2nd is trying but bringing in Brian Brohm wasn't trying. Drafting Trent Edwards wasn't trying. Signing VY wasn't trying. That all looks like the same trying to me. Just because you now think Dalton is awesome and the three guys I mentioned are obvious bums doesn't make Dalton trying and the rest not trying. Bias and hindsight doesn't constitute trying.

If we weren't trying, Losman would still be the starting QB today. And I hate to break this to you or the rest of the people who hate on Fitz but Fitz is a hell of a lot better QB than Losman could ever pretend to be. Before you twist this into me saying Fitz is good enough, let me make it clear...he is not, nor will he ever be. But a team does not upgrade it's situation by not trying and our QB situation today is definitely upgraded from 4 years ago.

[YardRat]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/213915-Woe-need-to-pull-an-Indy/page3?highlight=Flutie


'97---Todd Collins for development (Van Pelt developing)
'98---Doug Flutie, FA, Rob Johnson trade
'99---same
'00---same
'01---Travis Brown to develop
'02---Drew Bledsoe trade
'03---same
'04---JP Losman drafted
'05---Kelly Holcomb, FA
'06---same
'07---Trent Edwards
'08---same
'09---Ryan Fitzpatrick, FA
'10---Levi Brown to develop
'11---Tyler Thigpen, FA
'12---Vince Young FA, T.Jackson trade

So, since Kelly retired, there have been a total of 5 seasons out 16 that the Bills have not attempted to upgrade the starting QB position, and those five seasons have pretty good rationale behind the lack of moves for the brief period. The team has tried drafting in the mid- to lower rounds for a QB. They have traded for big names, traded up for a QB, and signed 'big names' as FA's. The only seasons they haven't made moves at QB they either were perceived to have been set, or should've been (post-Flutie/Johnson, post-Bledsoe, post-Losman).

Losman isn't the only flop on that list by far, but just because none of the above have turned into a 'franchise' guy for us doesn't mean that they haven't basically utilized every avenue available to try to acquire the next 'franchise' guy...they've just done a ****ty job with their choices.


Here's some more info, with '96 added in. Buffalo's first pick, followed by the next available QB prospect for that season.

'96---Eric Moulds / Tony Banks
'97---Antowain Smith / Jim Druckenmiller
'98---Sam Cowart / Charlie Batch
'99---Antoine Winfield / Shaun King
'00---Erik Flowers / Giovanni Carmazzi
'01---Nate Clements / Drew Brees
'02---Mike Williams / Patrick Ramsey
'03---Willis McGahee / Dave Ragone
'04---Lee Evans / JP Losman
'05---Roscoe Parrish / Charlie Fry
'06---Donte Whitner / Matt Leinart
'07---Marshawn Lynch / Brady Quinn
'08---Leodis McKelvin / Joe Flacco
'09---Aaron Maybin / Josh Freeman
'10---CJ Spiller / Tim Tebow
'11---Marcel Dareus / Jake Locker
'12---Stephon Gilmore / Brandon Weeden


Trading up? The QB taken prior, and # of spots needed to move up to get him, # draft pick overall...

'96---Eric Moulds / none...Banks first QB taken
'97---Antowain Smith / none...Druckenmiller first QB taken
'98---Sam Cowart / Ryan Leaf, 37, (#2)
'99---Antoine Winfield / Cade McNown, 11 (#12)
'00---Erik Flowers / Chad Pennington, 8 (#18)
'01---Nate Clements / Michael Vick, 20 (first overall)
'02---Mike Williams / Joey Harrington, 1 (#3)
'03---Willis McGahee / Rex Grossman, 1 (#22)
'04---Lee Evans / Ben Roethlisberger, 2 (#11)
'05---Roscoe Parrish / Jason Campbell, 30 (#25)
'06---Donte Whitner / Vince Young, 5 (#3)
'07---Marshawn Lynch / Jamarcus Russell, 11 (first overall)
'08---Leodis McKelvin / Matt Ryan, 8 (#3)
'09---Aaron Maybin / Mark Sanchez, 6 (#5)
'10---CJ Spiller / Sam Bradford, 8 (first overall)
'11---Marcel Dareus / Cam Newton, 2 (first overall)
'12---Stephon Gilmore / Ryan Tannehill, 2 (#8)

Even trading up would have netted us nothing.

Overall, from both lists, IMO there are only three times where we could have drafted differently without getting screwed out of house and home to move up, or should have taken a QB instead...'01 with Brees, '08 with Flacco, '04 with Roethlisberger.

[jdaltroy5]

If you'd really draft another QB after watching your starter throw for 3000 yards, 23 TDs, 15 INTs and a 81.8 Rating there really isn't a point to this discussion.You don't have to throw the stats at me. I WATCHED every game of that pathetic season. You might pass on a QB if your rookie QB does that. You don't pass on a QB because your former 7th round pick on his third team in 6 seasons does that.


NO team would go out and draft a First Round QB after watching a 27 year old guy do that. Not a one.Oh, Ok, good thing you asked every team.


That is what Fitz did here in his first full season behind center which was 2010. He slightly regressed last season from his 2010 performance 3800 yards, 24 TDs, 23 INTs and a 79.1 Rating.He's always been the same QB. He hasn't "slightly regressed." He's always had a weak arm and been 50/50 Fitz.



Stats don't tell the whole story obviously as from 2010 til the midway point of 2011 Fitz actually looked good without even quoting the stats. No, they don't. Just like someone would look at Fitz's stats this year and say he's doing ok. We all know he's been crap, but he pads his stats in garbage time.


Midway through 11 til now he's been a tire fire, whatever that reason is, who knows. But until now there's NO way any team would have entertained drafting a 1st round QB with the production Fitzpatrick gave from opening weekend 2010 through midway 2011.Ridiculous. There's no way the Bills would've drafted a QB, but don't patronize me and tell me that no team would've drafted a QB.


I'm more than willing to give you that the 2010 Draft we could have drafted a QB high. I said could have because none of the guys in the 2010 draft were all that great that were available to us. Tebow, Clausen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, John Skelton or even the guy we did end up taking Levi Brown. I'd rather have Fitz than any of those guys not that Fitz is any good.See the thing is, that I think Gailey is great with QBs. Just because Clausen sucked with Carolina, doesn't mean that he would suck with us. Tebow took his team to the playoffs and WON, so I don't understand how Fitz is better than him.


Then you try to claim drafting Dalton in the 2nd is trying but bringing in Brian Brohm wasn't trying. Signing a guy from the practice squad and drafting a guy 34th overall is the same thing to you? Alright then.


Drafting Trent Edwards wasn't trying. It was a good start.


Signing VY wasn't trying. Not really.


That all looks like the same trying to me.And that's the problem.


Just because you now think Dalton is awesome and the three guys I mentioned are obvious bums doesn't make Dalton trying and the rest not trying. Bias and hindsight doesn't constitute trying.This isn't hindsight. I said that Dalton and Ponder would be good BEFORE they were drafted. I think they would be even better than they are with Gailey as their coach.


If we weren't trying, Losman would still be the starting QB today. And I hate to break this to you or the rest of the people who hate on Fitz but Fitz is a hell of a lot better QB than Losman could ever pretend to be. Before you twist this into me saying Fitz is good enough, let me make it clear...he is not, nor will he ever be. Helluva lot better? Fitz is probably in the bottom ten in regards to QBs. Losman was as well. To be honest, I think Losman would've done well with Gailey at the helm. We tried to turn him into a pocket passer when he clearly wasn't.


But a team does not upgrade it's situation by not trying and our QB situation today is definitely upgraded from 4 years ago.I think it's slightly upgraded just based on coaching.

[jdaltroy5]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/213915-Woe-need-to-pull-an-Indy/page3?highlight=Flutie
See this is the problem. You guys think that signing guys like Thigpen, Young, or Fitz along with drafting Levi Brown constitutes "trying."

All we need is one Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers and that's it. We're set for over a decade.

Just call a spade a spade. The Bills have NOT drafted a QB with a high round pick and they have NOT been successful over the last decade.

You can whine about value all you want, but they will never be successful until they fix the QB position.

[DraftBoy]

See this is the problem. You guys think that signing guys like Thigpen, Young, or Fitz along with drafting Levi Brown constitutes "trying."

All we need is one Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers and that's it. We're set for over a decade.

Just call a spade a spade. The Bills have NOT drafted a QB with a high round pick and they have NOT been successful over the last decade.

You can whine about value all you want, but they will never be successful until they fix the QB position.

If drafting a QB and signing QB's isn't trying then what is?

The Bills took Losman in Round 1 how is that not taking a QB with a high pick? Ill agree they have no been successful in developing a QB at all.

[YardRat]

See this is the problem. You guys think that signing guys like Thigpen, Young, or Fitz along with drafting Levi Brown constitutes "trying."

All we need is one Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers and that's it. We're set for over a decade.

Just call a spade a spade. The Bills have NOT drafted a QB with a high round pick and they have NOT been successful over the last decade.

You can whine about value all you want, but they will never be successful until they fix the QB position.

Read my quoted posts closer.

They spent first rounders on Johnson, Bledsoe, and Losman, in one form or another. Any one of those three panning out would have sufficed, but they didn't.

The only seasons they didn't make some move to address the QB were...

'99 - Skip over Winfield for Shaun King, or trade up for McNown? No.
'00 - Skip over Flowers for Carmazzi, or trade up for Pennington? No, although skipping Flowers would have been great but moving 8 spots for Chad isn't worth it.
'03 - Skip McGahee for Ragone, or jump for Grossman? Hell no.
'06 - Skip Whitner for Leinart or move up for Young? We'd still be looking for QB, obviously.
'08 - Skip McKelvin for Flacco? Absolutely, in hindsight a no-brainer. Move up for Ryan? No.

[jdaltroy5]

If drafting a QB and signing QB's isn't trying then what is?

The Bills took Losman in Round 1 how is that not taking a QB with a high pick? Ill agree they have no been successful in developing a QB at all.

Signing a former 7th round pick with half a crappy season under his belt is NOT trying.

Are you kidding me?

Yeah, the Bills took Losman in the first almost a decade ago.

[jdaltroy5]

Read my quoted posts closer.

They spent first rounders on Johnson, Bledsoe, and Losman, in one form or another. Any one of those three panning out would have sufficed, but they didn't.

The only seasons they didn't make some move to address the QB were...

'99 - Skip over Winfield for Shaun King, or trade up for McNown? No.
'00 - Skip over Flowers for Carmazzi, or trade up for Pennington? No, although skipping Flowers would have been great but moving 8 spots for Chad isn't worth it.
'03 - Skip McGahee for Ragone, or jump for Grossman? Hell no.
'06 - Skip Whitner for Leinart or move up for Young? We'd still be looking for QB, obviously.
'08 - Skip McKelvin for Flacco? Absolutely, in hindsight a no-brainer. Move up for Ryan? No.

A) We wouldn't be selecting in the same spot if we took a QB every three years. The problem is we've been going BPA and coming out with a mediocre team.

For example, the Lions drafted Joey Harrington and tanked. They ended up getting Calvin Johnson and Matt Stafford because of it. Do you think they should've taken BPA instead?

B)They traded for Johnson what 14 years ago? They traded for Bledsoe over 10 years ago. They made the playoffs and had a winning season with both players.

[jdaltroy5]

There you go.

There's your boy.

Best game of his season so far and he throws a dumbass pick at the end of the game.

Spend all your picks on BPA for the defense and they can't stop the Tennessee ****ing Titans.