New stadium for the Bills in the future?

[BertSquirtgum]

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20121022%2FCITYANDREGION%2F121029746%2F1109

[jamze132]

Will never be built until an owner who isn't in their 90s owns the team and commits to Buffalo.

[Night Train]

We've been trying to get a bridge built here for 15 years without success. I'll believe it when I see it.

1.4 Billion in this area ? Looks like a retractable dome and a dome would be the only way it could succeed.

I bet I'll be dead before they break dirt.

[RedEyE]

Sweet stadium though.

[mrbojanglezs]

I heard state would only put up 400 million NFL would match it at 400 million the rest is privately funded. Seems reasonable. However 1.4 billion seems way too overpriced for a market like buffalo.

[RedEyE]

Extremely over-priced. They could cut significant cost by excluding the retractable roof. But then I guess it seconding as a convention center would also go out the window.

[OpIv37]

A retractable dome is essentially a dome because it will never be open in bad weather. It cedes the advantage to our opponents, especially Miami.

I also don't see any parking lots for tailgating in that mock-up.

Also, if Buffalo gets a stadium that costs more than $600 million or so, say hello to PSL's, which means saying goodbye to probably 10k season ticket holders who won't fork over the dough.

[X-Era]

72000 people and look at the photo... wheres the parking? Wheres the tailgate?

It would be sweet and being on the harbor is perfect. I just don't see the real estate to actually do it.

[RedEyE]

72000 people and look at the photo... wheres the parking? Wheres the tailgate?

It would be sweet and being on the harbor is perfect. I just don't see the real estate to actually do it.

The article does indicate 167 acres total. The Ralph expands across 197 acres.

[DraftBoy]

$600 millions is a lot of money for somebody to front. The new stadium HAS to be retractable roof and honestly if it takes PSL's and limited tailgating to get the Bills to stay in Buffalo that's something local fans may have to swallow. You're talking about 10,000 new jobs to the area for at least five years. Now it will never get approved but that's a different story.

[RedEyE]

$600 millions is a lot of money for somebody to front. The new stadium HAS to be retractable roof and honestly if it takes PSL's and limited tailgating to get the Bills to stay in Buffalo that's something local fans may have to swallow. You're talking about 10,000 new jobs to the area for at least five years. Now it will never get approved but that's a different story.

Am I missing something? Why does it HAVE to be retractable?

[OpIv37]

The article does indicate 167 acres total. The Ralph expands across 197 acres.

Plus, there are a lot of private lots on people's yards and small businesses around the Ralph. And it looks like the stadium itself is larger, to accommodate the convention center space. I'd say a conservative estimate is a loss of 50 acres of tailgating space.

That will KILL this team, as the tailgating is what has kept people going to the games even when the team blows (which has been constant).

That being said, we probably already gave this issue more time than it's worth. The article said they haven't reached out to the team and they haven't sought political backing yet, so right now, there is about as much reality to this as me saying I'm going to buy the Bills and appoint myself GM, DraftBoy director of scouting and Coach Sal as head coach.

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$600 millions is a lot of money for somebody to front. The new stadium HAS to be retractable roof and honestly if it takes PSL's and limited tailgating to get the Bills to stay in Buffalo that's something local fans may have to swallow. You're talking about 10,000 new jobs to the area for at least five years. Now it will never get approved but that's a different story.

I disagree that it HAS to be retractable. A retractable dome in Buffalo is a dome. They'll have it open 3 games a year, tops, Not worth the money. And I don't think PSL's and limited tailgating will help keep the team in Buffalo. I think they'll help drive the team out, because the games will become too expensive and people will stop going to the games to tailgate even when the team sucks.

[Historian]

I'd buy a piece of the team...

[jamze132]

Seating capacity needs to be decreased to around 65K.

[OpIv37]

I'd buy a piece of the team...

Too bad the NFL won't let you, which is ironic because they take our money every other way possible....

[DraftBoy]

Am I missing something? Why does it HAVE to be retractable?

Because otherwise its a pointless venue for January-July. In order to let it be a convention center, hosts concerts, host special events it has to have a roof that closes. That will allow more money to be brought into the area quicker.

[DraftBoy]

I disagree that it HAS to be retractable. A retractable dome in Buffalo is a dome. They'll have it open 3 games a year, tops, Not worth the money. And I don't think PSL's and limited tailgating will help keep the team in Buffalo. I think they'll help drive the team out, because the games will become too expensive and people will stop going to the games to tailgate even when the team sucks.

Who gives a **** if its not open ever? Do you honestly believe the weather that effects both teams is that big of an advantage? I recall there have been studies done saying the weather is closer to a zero net effect.

For years fans here havs said they will pay more, I dont think the PSL in Buffalo will cost as much as the one in Dallas or NJ, they aren't going to outprice their market place to that level. Im not going to even bother responding to the idea that people being unable to tailgate would drive the team away. That's ridiculous to even consider.

[mrbojanglezs]

72000 people and look at the photo... wheres the parking? Wheres the tailgate?

It would be sweet and being on the harbor is perfect. I just don't see the real estate to actually do it.

Stolen from BBMB:

http://oi48.tinypic.com/5ww7es.jpg

[OpIv37]

Who gives a **** if its not open ever? Do you honestly believe the weather that effects both teams is that big of an advantage? I recall there have been studies done saying the weather is closer to a zero net effect.

For years fans here havs said they will pay more, I dont think the PSL in Buffalo will cost as much as the one in Dallas or NJ, they aren't going to outprice their market place to that level. Im not going to even bother responding to the idea that people being unable to tailgate would drive the team away. That's ridiculous to even consider.

I think you missed the point: if they're never going to open it, then it doesn't have to be retractable. It's a waste of money.

And no, the tailgating thing is not ridiculous. It's part of the Bills experience and it's what keeps Bills fans coming when the team sucks, particularly late in the year. If the team can get 10+ wins a season, you're right, the tailgating won't matter. But they can't. Take away the tailgating, and you'll be lucky to get 20k to show up for those meaningless December games.

[gebobs]

I think you missed the point: if they're never going to open it, then it doesn't have to be retractable. It's a waste of money.
Why would it never be open? It would certainly be open for most games in the fall. And if there's a late season game where it's cold and not a blizzard, who says they can't use the weather to their advantage?

[OpIv37]

Why would it never be open? It would certainly be open for most games in the fall. And if there's a late season game where it's cold and not a blizzard, who says they can't use the weather to their advantage?
They won't open it if it's even the least bit cold. Fall games, yes, but how many is that? 2 or 3 games a year? 4 tops? It's not worth the cost to have it open for half the games or less.

[gebobs]

They won't open it if it's even the least bit cold.
I read what you said. What is your source on this? Or is it just your opinion?


Fall games, yes, but how many is that? 2 or 3 games a year? 4 tops? It's not worth the cost to have it open for half the games or less.
Huh? The Bills average 5 games each year before December. And in case you hadn't noticed, winters are getting milder.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Either go cheap with an open air field or go with a full-time dome, but I honestly don't see the point of a retractable dome. They're never going to open it in inclement weather because then they would need to add all of the other junk that goes with it (drainage, heated field) and that adds to the expense.

[gebobs]

Either go cheap with an open air field or go with a full-time dome, but I honestly don't see the point of a retractable dome. They're never going to open it in inclement weather because then they would need to add all of the other junk that goes with it (drainage, heated field) and that adds to the expense.
If that's the case, screw the dome. Keep it open.

Some people want a dome so it would attract a Super Bowl. Buffalo can barely handle an NHL All-Star game. A Super Bowl attracts more than just attendees. Visitors would have to get hotel rooms in Toronto, Rochester and Niagara Falls.

[RedEyE]

Stolen from BBMB:

http://oi48.tinypic.com/5ww7es.jpg

Wow! Traffic in and out of there will be a nightmare.

[Ed]

I've never liked the idea of indoor games for the Bills, but I think it's a reality that fans need to accept if they want the Bills to remain in Buffalo. There could be a few advantages though.

I think it would be easier to sell December tickets if people don't have to deal with the weather. I know there are the hardcore fans that like the experience of the harsh elements, but they don't sell out games. More people would prefer not to be cold and miserable when they go watch a game and it's not like a roof is going to keep the hardcore fans away.

It could also help make the Bills a little more appealing to free agents since most players aren't from places that have harsh weather.

The stadium would also probably be a lot louder, which could have a bigger impact on opponents than weather.

[DraftBoy]

I think you missed the point: if they're never going to open it, then it doesn't have to be retractable. It's a waste of money.

And no, the tailgating thing is not ridiculous. It's part of the Bills experience and it's what keeps Bills fans coming when the team sucks, particularly late in the year. If the team can get 10+ wins a season, you're right, the tailgating won't matter. But they can't. Take away the tailgating, and you'll be lucky to get 20k to show up for those meaningless December games.

No my point re: roof is about more than just football. You can have an open roof for summer concerts and other events. Don't get me wrong Im ok with a full dome, I just hate the idea of building an open air stadium up there.

We may be lucky to get 20K this December with all the tailgating glory. Tailgating doesn't make or break attendance. But that points looks pointless now assuming the BBMB schematic is legit.

RedEye is right though, traffic would be an absolute nightmare.

[Ed]

Wow! Traffic in and out of there will be a nightmare.
Have you ever been to a stadium where traffic wasn't an issue?

[OpIv37]

I read what you said. What is your source on this? Or is it just your opinion?


Huh? The Bills average 5 games each year before December. And in case you hadn't noticed, winters are getting milder.

People in Buffalo often forget how poor the rest of the country's tolerance for bad weather is. The stadium will not operate under Buffalo weather rules. It will operate under the rules that will get the most asses in the seats- i.e.- if it's even the least bit uncomfortable outside, they will make it comfortable inside.

And I don't have a source- it's just my opinion. But it's all about money, and no matter what they say ahead of time, it won't work that way if it's built.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Have you ever been to a stadium where traffic wasn't an issue?

Traffic is always going to be an issue whenever 75k+ are all heading to the same spot at the same time, but most other stadiums at least let you get out in multiple directions.

[OpIv37]

Traffic is always going to be an issue whenever 75k+ are all heading to the same spot at the same time, but most other stadiums at least let you get out in multiple directions.
Obviously you've never been to FedEx field....

[RedEyE]

Traffic is always going to be an issue whenever 75k+ are all heading to the same spot at the same time, but most other stadiums at least let you get out in multiple directions.

This^

[jdaltroy5]

They're going to have to get A LOT better if they expect to fill that thing and get their money back.

My Dad has season tickets on the 20 yard line 4 rows up and he pays less than $100 per game. There's no way in Hell we'd be making the 5 hour round trip trek in December to pay over $200 to watch them get their asses kicked.

ESPECIALLY if I wasn't allowed to get loaded first.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Obviously you've never been to FedEx field....

"Most"

[mrbojanglezs]

http://itmpodcasttrack.com/podcast_track.mp3?iTunes=play&stationId=3061&episodeId=6091455&url=http://podcast.wben.com/wben2/3711751.mp3

Russ puts an end to this. Also makes sarcastic remarks towards Buffalo. Can't stand this clown he has also ripped fans in the past for not attending Decemeber games

[DMBcrew36]

If that's the case, screw the dome. Keep it open.

Some people want a dome so it would attract a Super Bowl. Buffalo can barely handle an NHL All-Star game. A Super Bowl attracts more than just attendees. Visitors would have to get hotel rooms in Toronto, Rochester and Niagara Falls.

Dome and keep it closed.

Besides the Bills being terrible, why do you think the November/December games don't sell out? Normal people don't enjoy freezing their asses off (and even less so when your team is horrible).

[Mouldsie]

A giant parking lot on the already ****ty looking waterfront?

SIGN ME UP!

[X-Era]

Plus, there are a lot of private lots on people's yards and small businesses around the Ralph. And it looks like the stadium itself is larger, to accommodate the convention center space. I'd say a conservative estimate is a loss of 50 acres of tailgating space.

That will KILL this team, as the tailgating is what has kept people going to the games even when the team blows (which has been constant).

That being said, we probably already gave this issue more time than it's worth. The article said they haven't reached out to the team and they haven't sought political backing yet, so right now, there is about as much reality to this as me saying I'm going to buy the Bills and appoint myself GM, DraftBoy director of scouting and Coach Sal as head coach.

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I disagree that it HAS to be retractable. A retractable dome in Buffalo is a dome. They'll have it open 3 games a year, tops, Not worth the money. And I don't think PSL's and limited tailgating will help keep the team in Buffalo. I think they'll help drive the team out, because the games will become too expensive and people will stop going to the games to tailgate even when the team sucks.

Really? I can't have a role?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

This will not be built until Ralph dies or sells the team.

[OpIv37]

Really? I can't have a role?

You can be the midget trainer.

[BLeonard]

I like the idea... Whether it comes to fruition or not is a completely different story.

I've said it multiple times before... Even if they renovate the Ralph, in 10 years, it's gonna be obsolete again. I read a prefect analogy on this: How many times do you fix an old, used car before you just bite the bullet and invest in a new one? RWS will be 40 years old next year... That's ancient in NFL terms.

While I understand people wanting Bills games to be an open air environment, this isn't the 90's anymore. IMO, any "weather advantage" they had is gone and has been gone for a while. Also, keep in mind, per NFL rules, in retractable roof stadiums, the Home Team gets to designate whether the roof is open or closed. So, if the Bills really felt that the weather would assist them, they could elect to have the roof open.

As others have said, a retractable roof opens doors for a multitude of events including, but not limited to, Concerts, NCAA Tournaments, Soccer World Cups, WrestleManias and Super Bowls.

Finally, who gives a damn what Russ Brandon thinks? I'd about bet that his days with the Bills are just as numbered as Ralph Wilson's. In other words, once Ralph is gone, Brandon will be as well. This is obviously a plan for after Wilson is gone, as this sort of project would take a few years to complete.

-Bill

[Extremebillsfan247]

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20121022%2FCITYANDREGION%2F121029746%2F1109

What is this teams record in indoor stadiums currently? anyone know?

[BuffaloWingEater]

Extremely over-priced. They could cut significant cost by excluding the retractable roof. But then I guess it seconding as a convention center would also go out the window.

Host a Super Bowl

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A retractable dome is essentially a dome because it will never be open in bad weather. It cedes the advantage to our opponents, especially Miami.

I also don't see any parking lots for tailgating in that mock-up.

Also, if Buffalo gets a stadium that costs more than $600 million or so, say hello to PSL's, which means saying goodbye to probably 10k season ticket holders who won't fork over the dough.

Host a Super Bowl and maybe if Toronto ever gets the Olympics

[BLeonard]

What is this teams record in indoor stadiums currently? anyone know?

Well, since Gailey took over in 2010, the Bills are 2-3 indoors.

2010: 0-2... Losses at Minnesota and against Chicago (Toronto)
2011: 1-1... Win against Washington (Toronto) and loss at Dallas
2012: 1-0... Win at Arizona

.400 is better than .333, which is Gailey's overall winning percentage while in Buffalo (13-26).

Small sample size, I realize, but accurate for the current regime.

-Bill

[BuffaloWingEater]

Well, since Gailey took over in 2010, the Bills are 2-3 indoors.

2010: 0-2... Losses at Minnesota and against Chicago (Toronto)
2011: 1-1... Win against Washington (Toronto) and loss at Dallas
2012: 1-0... Win at Arizona

.400 is better than .333, which is Gailey's overall winning percentage while in Buffalo (13-26).

Small sample size, I realize, but accurate for the current regime.

-Bill

i are we so worries about snow when all of our players we draft come from the South.

[superbills]

http://itmpodcasttrack.com/podcast_track.mp3?iTunes=play&stationId=3061&episodeId=6091455&url=http://podcast.wben.com/wben2/3711751.mp3

Russ puts an end to this. Also makes sarcastic remarks towards Buffalo. Can't stand this clown he has also ripped fans in the past for not attending Decemeber games

Russ just knows that when Ralph sells or goes to the great hall of fame in the sky, he's going to be irrelevant. He's protecting his current job since his current boss would never entertain this. Still, he's a douche.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Dome is fine by me.

Remember I am one of the few stiffs actually sitting in the freezing cold why the rest of you bums are sitting on your couches.

We suck anyways who cares about the weather advantage?

[gebobs]

Host a Super Bowl

Host a Super Bowl and maybe if Toronto ever gets the Olympics
Buffalo? A Super Bowl? LOL...are you going to let the camera crews sleep in your house?

[better days]

Dome is fine by me.

Remember I am one of the few stiffs actually sitting in the freezing cold why the rest of you bums are sitting on your couches.

We suck anyways who cares about the weather advantage?

If a dome is in the future, I see no need for a retractable roof myself. I just don't think a retractable roof is worth the money.

[BertSquirtgum]

I think you missed the point: if they're never going to open it, then it doesn't have to be retractable. It's a waste of money.

And no, the tailgating thing is not ridiculous. It's part of the Bills experience and it's what keeps Bills fans coming when the team sucks, particularly late in the year. If the team can get 10+ wins a season, you're right, the tailgating won't matter. But they can't. Take away the tailgating, and you'll be lucky to get 20k to show up for those meaningless December games.

I would rather go to bars downtown and watch a game in a nice warm dome than tailgate when it's 20 degrees out.

[Extremebillsfan247]

http://www.buffalonews.com/storyimage/BN/20121022/CITYANDREGION/121029746/AR/0/AR-121029746.jpg I'm uncertain that a roof of that type would work well. That's a lot of surface area for accumulation of snow. Accumulated snow can get very heavy. The danger in that alone shouldn't be hard to imagine judging by this model. JMO

[BertSquirtgum]

http://www.buffalonews.com/storyimage/BN/20121022/CITYANDREGION/121029746/AR/0/AR-121029746.jpg I'm uncertain that a roof of that type would work well. That's a lot of surface area for accumulation of snow. Accumulated snow can get very heavy. The danger in that alone shouldn't be hard to imagine judging by this model. JMO

They can install heated pipes to melt the snow as it falls.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If a dome is in the future, I see no need for a retractable roof myself. I just don't think a retractable roof is worth the money.

I don't disagree.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Keep in mind this location isn't within walking distance to any Downtown bars.

[BertSquirtgum]

Keep in mind this location isn't within walking distance to any Downtown bars.

That's why they can install a rail system like the sabres have. To go from downtown to the entertainment complex. Would be good for concerts etc......

[THATHURMANATOR]

That's why they can install a rail system like the sabres have. To go from downtown to the entertainment complex. Would be good for concerts etc......

Yes that would be nice!

[DraftBoy]

Keep in mind this location isn't within walking distance to any Downtown bars.

Just curious, what's the estimation about how far to the nearest bar?

[Jeff1220]

Today a plan will be presented to the Common Council that proposes a 72,000-seat, retractable-roof stadium, which can double as a convention center, as the centerpiece of a $1.4 billion project on outer harbor land owned by the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority.
...envision surface and covered parking for 5,000, as well as hotel and retail and dining establishments.

Re: the $1.4 Billion - From reading the article, it sounds like the entire waterfront development would be $1.4 billion, not just the stadium. The stadium would be the bulk of it, and the centerpiece, but a lot of that money could be accounted for in other aspects of development.

[BertSquirtgum]

Just curious, what's the estimation about how far to the nearest bar?

5 miles

[THATHURMANATOR]

Not 5 miles but maybe 1 to 2 miles....

[YardRat]

Keep in mind this location isn't within walking distance to any Downtown bars.

That situation would rectify itself in pretty short order.

[gebobs]

Why are we still discussing this? It's not happening. We may as well discuss the Bills chances in this year's Super Bowl.

[BertSquirtgum]

Why are we still discussing this? It's not happening. We may as well discuss the Bills chances in this year's Super Bowl.

There's a better chance of the Bills getting a new stadium than there is that the Bills ever go to a Super Bowl again so why not?

[mrbojanglezs]

Pearl st is very close....

If this was to happen I am sure they would extend the rail system across the canal

then you could get to all the bars via rail including Chippewa

[OpIv37]

I would rather go to bars downtown and watch a game in a nice warm dome than tailgate when it's 20 degrees out.

Yeah we'll most Bills fans aren't that sane. If we were, we probably wouldn't be Bills fans.

[BuffaloWingEater]

Buffalo? A Super Bowl? LOL...are you going to let the camera crews sleep in your house?

yes :D

[trapezeus]

there is supposedly a hotel connected to this, isn't that someone who buys a piece of it.

the package as is is a good deal for the city of buffalo.
1. you keep the bills
2. put build a convention center
3. you put hotel space.

YOu need support from the NFL to maybe host a Draft at the new spot and showcase it a little.
you would see bars and restaurants come around there.

It's a real revitalization effort.

if tailgating is your biggest issue, then we deserve to lose this team. We will find ways to do it and some people will actually meet up in restaurants and bars before the game preserving that spirit and helping the local economy.

It's too much of a good thing to happen to the area. too bad we didn't have a failing company in buffalo during 2008 or we could have raided the coffers like all the other companies and gotten $1.4BN when $700BN was given out.

[BertSquirtgum]

This idea is much more realistic now. There is a task force being put together to get plans for a new stadium.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s379/bhurtgam/AR-121029746jpgexactW602maxH602AlignVtopQ80.jpg

[Skooby]

This idea is much more realistic now. There's is a task force being put together to get plans for a new stadium.

This does seem to be the case.

[Cntrygal]

This idea is much more realistic now. There is a task force being put together to get plans for a new stadium.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s379/bhurtgam/AR-121029746jpgexactW602maxH602AlignVtopQ80.jpg


They would have to put up a big fence to keep the drunks from trying to take a swim..... :insane::boozer: