X's and O's... Show us some chalk talk. Prove you know football.

[X-Era]

I'd like to see a technical discussion on why our defense is failing.

Specifically:

why do TE's have so much success?
Why did Welker do so well?
Why does it seem the flats, seems, and intermediate routes are always open?
Why does it seem that the 3rd down conversions are again a big problem?
Why does this 4-3 seem to suffer from much of the same issues we had with Jauron's Cover 2 4-3? Compare/contrast.
Where are the weaknesses of this defense? Or where are we failing to execute it? Not calling out individuals but where are the breakdowns?
Without naming names, can you identify, after diagramming it, what type of player we need to properly execute this defense or that position? What attributes should the ideal fit have?


I know some of you are real good at the X's and O's, I'd love to see some technical breakdown. We know about individual mistakes, coaching, etc... Let's keep off that topic, there's plenty of other threads for that.

**** Please keep that stuff out of this thread.

ZB's to anyone who includes diagrams. Extra ZB's to anyone who can depict the breakdowns on a diagram. It'll be my discretion on the worth of course. Lol.

Let's see what ya got... Break it down for us.

[Oaf]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/John_Madden_Football_II_Coverart.png

ZBs or Paypal ok

[better days]

Well, I heard Mark Kelso on The John Murphy show the other day & he said he could only guess about what was going on because he did not know the specific defense called & did not know who was responsible for what. Therefore anyone that says they know what is going on is just full of BS IMO.

[Ingtar33]

Why do TE's have so much success?
physical mismatch, our LBers aren't physically able to cover them, our safeties are too small... same problem most teams have with good TE (we're not the only team who struggles with them)

Why did Welker do so well?
He destroys many teams, not just buffalo. To cover Welker you need someone able to play him in press coverage AND keep up. OR you need to clog the passing lanes with your defensive line and force Brady to look somewhere else. One is personnel the other is great coaching.

Why does it seem the flats, seems, and intermediate routes are always open?
This year it's because our DBs and LBers pretty much suck. If the DBs aren't being too agressive and biting on double moves, they're screwing up the coverage calls, or running into eachother. The LBers who should be getting into the passing lanes and taking away the underneeth stuff are 3 steps behind on their reads, and out of position so much in the passing game we effectively have no underneath coverage.

Why does it seem that the 3rd down conversions are again a big problem?
Read the above clutter of problems, combined with an inconsistent or nonexistent passrush it's pretty easy for most teams to pick up 5-8 yards without breakign a sweat. When the coverages really break down (which happens probably every third pass, which is shockingly bad) those 5-8 yard passes can go for 15 or so yards... and when you miss a tackle or two (which happens every other play it seems) those 15 yards can stretch for another 5-10 yards. And that's not even taking into account all the open deep routs that open up when the DL fails to generate a passrush.

Why does this 4-3 seem to suffer from much of the same issues we had with Jauron's Cover 2 4-3? Compare/contrast.
Both suck at rushing the passer... and both need a solid (consistent) passrush... both suck at runstopping, and when you can't stop the run, it becomes really hard to stop a short/medium passing game... because the LBers will bite on every play action or misdirection you will throw at them.

Where are the weaknesses of this defense? Or where are we failing to execute it? Not calling out individuals but where are the breakdowns?
It would be easier to mention the guys doing their jobs... (that's right, no one comes to mind)... Kyle Williams has shaken off whatever that funk was at the start of the season, and is playing lights out now... outside of Williams no one is standing out as even coming close to doing their job. I suppose Byrd has looked good the last 3 weeks, but he was just as bad as the rest earlier in the season. (its no coincidence he's looked better this year, he's a cover 2 safety, he's being asked to do a lot of that this year, so he's more comfortable then he was with Edwards as DC, who wanted him closer to the line, and asked him to play more man). After that everyone should be ashamed of themselves.

Without naming names, can you identify, after diagramming it, what type of player we need to properly execute this defense or that position? What attributes should the ideal fit have? Someone who cares and someone with some years in this league. most of the problems remind me of what you get in college with too many freshmen in your lineup. Too many inexperienced guys, being asked to do too much too soon. Worse, the guys who know better, the vets, aren't giving 100%, and as a result are not leading by example. This defense has a shocking lack of quality leadership. No accountability. If I were the Bills GM, I would aim at bringing in mid level FAs at all positions on the defense, all of whom are older, and well regarded in their locker-rooms. we don't need stars to fix this, unlike with Jauron where we clearly had a lack of talent, I'm not seeing an obvious physical mismatch on the field (except at LB, where we remain pretty mediocre talent wise)... what we need are successful vets. Professionals, with strong work ethics and good personalities. Players who could challenge for starting spots (guys like Drayton Florence). We also need 1 player (rookie/vet/whomever) at linebacker who bleeds red, white and blue, to be the QB of that defense. Trick is those guys are hard to find...

[BertSquirtgum]

Poz was ready to be the qb of the defense. It's too bad he just sucked.

[kishoph]

Poz was ready to be the qb of the defense. It's too bad he just sucked.


Yea, he's gonna have another sucky year in Jacksonville were he'll get 120+ tackles, close to 10 passes defensed and a couple of interceptions, so glad he's off the team and we have Kelvin Sheppard at MLB.

[X-Era]

Why do TE's have so much success?
physical mismatch, our LBers aren't physically able to cover them, our safeties are too small... same problem most teams have with good TE (we're not the only team who struggles with them)

Why did Welker do so well?
He destroys many teams, not just buffalo. To cover Welker you need someone able to play him in press coverage AND keep up. OR you need to clog the passing lanes with your defensive line and force Brady to look somewhere else. One is personnel the other is great coaching.

Why does it seem the flats, seems, and intermediate routes are always open?
This year it's because our DBs and LBers pretty much suck. If the DBs aren't being too agressive and biting on double moves, they're screwing up the coverage calls, or running into eachother. The LBers who should be getting into the passing lanes and taking away the underneeth stuff are 3 steps behind on their reads, and out of position so much in the passing game we effectively have no underneath coverage.

Why does it seem that the 3rd down conversions are again a big problem?
Read the above clutter of problems, combined with an inconsistent or nonexistent passrush it's pretty easy for most teams to pick up 5-8 yards without breakign a sweat. When the coverages really break down (which happens probably every third pass, which is shockingly bad) those 5-8 yard passes can go for 15 or so yards... and when you miss a tackle or two (which happens every other play it seems) those 15 yards can stretch for another 5-10 yards. And that's not even taking into account all the open deep routs that open up when the DL fails to generate a passrush.

Why does this 4-3 seem to suffer from much of the same issues we had with Jauron's Cover 2 4-3? Compare/contrast.
Both suck at rushing the passer... and both need a solid (consistent) passrush... both suck at runstopping, and when you can't stop the run, it becomes really hard to stop a short/medium passing game... because the LBers will bite on every play action or misdirection you will throw at them.

Where are the weaknesses of this defense? Or where are we failing to execute it? Not calling out individuals but where are the breakdowns?
It would be easier to mention the guys doing their jobs... (that's right, no one comes to mind)... Kyle Williams has shaken off whatever that funk was at the start of the season, and is playing lights out now... outside of Williams no one is standing out as even coming close to doing their job. I suppose Byrd has looked good the last 3 weeks, but he was just as bad as the rest earlier in the season. (its no coincidence he's looked better this year, he's a cover 2 safety, he's being asked to do a lot of that this year, so he's more comfortable then he was with Edwards as DC, who wanted him closer to the line, and asked him to play more man). After that everyone should be ashamed of themselves.

Without naming names, can you identify, after diagramming it, what type of player we need to properly execute this defense or that position? What attributes should the ideal fit have? Someone who cares and someone with some years in this league. most of the problems remind me of what you get in college with too many freshmen in your lineup. Too many inexperienced guys, being asked to do too much too soon. Worse, the guys who know better, the vets, aren't giving 100%, and as a result are not leading by example. This defense has a shocking lack of quality leadership. No accountability. If I were the Bills GM, I would aim at bringing in mid level FAs at all positions on the defense, all of whom are older, and well regarded in their locker-rooms. we don't need stars to fix this, unlike with Jauron where we clearly had a lack of talent, I'm not seeing an obvious physical mismatch on the field (except at LB, where we remain pretty mediocre talent wise)... what we need are successful vets. Professionals, with strong work ethics and good personalities. Players who could challenge for starting spots (guys like Drayton Florence). We also need 1 player (rookie/vet/whomever) at linebacker who bleeds red, white and blue, to be the QB of that defense. Trick is those guys are hard to find...You were the first person I thought of on this. I'll give you 5K for this one.

[X-Era]

Here's a diagram. Right click and save to your desktop to modify and post your own.

15967

[coastal]

The problems with this team doesn't boil down to X's and O's.

its much worse than that.

sorry... But mostly a pointless thread.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I'd like to see a technical discussion on why our defense is failing.

Specifically:

why do TE's have so much success?
Why did Welker do so well?
Why does it seem the flats, seems, and intermediate routes are always open?
Why does it seem that the 3rd down conversions are again a big problem?
Why does this 4-3 seem to suffer from much of the same issues we had with Jauron's Cover 2 4-3? Compare/contrast.
Where are the weaknesses of this defense? Or where are we failing to execute it? Not calling out individuals but where are the breakdowns?
Without naming names, can you identify, after diagramming it, what type of player we need to properly execute this defense or that position? What attributes should the ideal fit have?


I know some of you are real good at the X's and O's, I'd love to see some technical breakdown. We know about individual mistakes, coaching, etc... Let's keep off that topic, there's plenty of other threads for that.

**** Please keep that stuff out of this thread.

ZB's to anyone who includes diagrams. Extra ZB's to anyone who can depict the breakdowns on a diagram. It'll be my discretion on the worth of course. Lol.

Let's see what ya got... Break it down for us. Actually, Coach Sal is really good at this kind of thing as far as breaking down the X's and O's of it all. I can give descriptions based on what I see, and how it relates to what I've seen over the past 30 plus years or so of watching the game.

So, with that being said, I'll touch on a couple of things.
First, Jauron's defense was built differently. It was smaller, quicker, and the secondary was light years better than this one. The problem with that defense was that it was too small, and players were often getting injured because of it. This made it tougher for them to stay consistent.

This current defense is bigger up front, slower at the linebacker position, and lack a strong veteran presence in the secondary. That I think is the core of it all. Our linebackers are too slow to keep up, and our corner backs are getting exposed as simply not being experienced enough to handle what's being thrown at them. That's my opinion.

[ServoBillieves]

See there's a problem with the diagram and simply going by ><'s (this thread is going to be incredibly hard to respond to with a busted >< key...) and O's.

We keep hearing about the base 4-3 defense. How many times have you seen Barnett, Sheppard, and Moats on the field at the same time? Our "base d" consists of 4 down linemen and either 5 or 6 DB's. Putting Bryan Scott at LB seemed like a fantastic idea until we all realized that he was still just a safety.

I'll post a play that has been tearing us apart recently once I draw it up, but even as coastal said, it goes far deeper than simple chalk.

[DraftBoy]

Here's a diagram. Right click and save to your desktop to modify and post your own.

15967

Just to not that 43 alignment is not one we run often. Our NT in this would be Dareus but he's farther shaded to the inside shoudler of the RG than to the outside of the OC. Which is important to differentiate since we run our DE's upfield and rely on our DT's to control the middle. In the alignment above the split between NT and LE is so large any scheme calling for the big upfield rush that we've seen Mario do would leave only the WLB as the fill man with a lot of space for a RB to get into.

[X-Era]

Just to not that 43 alignment is not one we run often. Our NT in this would be Dareus but he's farther shaded to the inside shoudler of the RG than to the outside of the OC. Which is important to differentiate since we run our DE's upfield and rely on our DT's to control the middle. In the alignment above the split between NT and LE is so large any scheme calling for the big upfield rush that we've seen Mario do would leave only the WLB as the fill man with a lot of space for a RB to get into.5K for this response.

I'd like to see it though. I'm working on one that shows what I think is happening. But, I admit that Im not as familiar with playcalling and schemes.

- - - Updated - - -


See there's a problem with the diagram and simply going by ><'s (this thread is going to be incredibly hard to respond to with a busted >< key...) and O's.

We keep hearing about the base 4-3 defense. How many times have you seen Barnett, Sheppard, and Moats on the field at the same time? Our "base d" consists of 4 down linemen and either 5 or 6 DB's. Putting Bryan Scott at LB seemed like a fantastic idea until we all realized that he was still just a safety.

I'll post a play that has been tearing us apart recently once I draw it up, but even as coastal said, it goes far deeper than simple chalk.Isn't Scott on the field because the O is running a spread and we counter with the Nickel?

[X-Era]

See there's a problem with the diagram and simply going by ><'s (this thread is going to be incredibly hard to respond to with a busted >< key...) and O's.

We keep hearing about the base 4-3 defense. How many times have you seen Barnett, Sheppard, and Moats on the field at the same time? Our "base d" consists of 4 down linemen and either 5 or 6 DB's. Putting Bryan Scott at LB seemed like a fantastic idea until we all realized that he was still just a safety.

I'll post a play that has been tearing us apart recently once I draw it up, but even as coastal said, it goes far deeper than simple chalk.Yeah, it's juts one diagram. I'm sure there's lot's of line-up's.

[Ed]

15968

5k please.

[DraftBoy]

He's a pretty basic drawing of what I see happening too often on this defense.

Red is the DL rush patterns, Green in the Mike LB gap responsibility, Blue is Coverage, and Purple is zone coverage. Black is the OL blocks.

15969

As you can see in the diagram with our DE philosophy of getting upfield and to the outside (C Gap) and our DT's going inside (A Gap) is leaving Sheppard with massive holes to fill mostly in the interior gaps (B Gap) while also having to deal with the Center. That leaves lots of options and cutback lanes for the RB if the DL can't get off blocks and into the backfield quickly.

[jamze132]

This boils down to play recognition, DISCIPLINE, and heart. When our defense finds these these attributes, we 'll be fine.

[jamze132]

How many time have you watched our inept LBs NOT fill their assigned gap? Even if they suck (which they do), if they follow their individual assignment, they'll be successfull more often than not. Discipline can outshine talent if coached properly. But obviously that is a problem. LOL

[trapezeus]

i'm no coach or anything, but being at the game on sunday. i noticed the bills LB's are guessing on plays. They look into the back field to see if thy are needed and take a step forward. even on non-playaction. then the TE walk right into the middle and finds that spot between LB and Safeties. And they get 8-15 yards with no problem. When the bills drop back to stop that, runs go for 4-7 yards at worst. So the LBs are being asked to creep back up.

So i would say that the front four only pushes straight up and they don't shed any blocks. Once engaged with a lineman, they can't get off and slow the running down.

But l'm not ingtar or coach sal who clearly have the specifics on the issues. and i agreet with ingtar, it looks like heart and determination is a huge part of this.

[kingJofNYC]

Haven't seen a unit with such poor fundamentals and discipline, half the time they forget what their assignment is. Just awful.

Check out another bread down of this past weekend.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Playbook-Chris-Johnson-runs-past-the-Bills.html

[TigerJ]

I readily admit my technical knowledge of football is very limited. I'm very grateful for guys like Ingtar and Draftboy who can break this stuff down in ways I can understand. I can tell when players are doing a poor job though, and I've seen a lot of that this season.

Ingtar, I'd like to hear your opinion. Others have expressed the thought that Dave Wannstedt is out of touch with the times, and his pretty simple defensive scheme, which is designed to let good players play without thinking too much. Do you think the scheme is inherently unable to cope with the offensive variety and complexity that is today's NFL, or is it simply a matter of players not doing what they're supposed to do?

[BertSquirtgum]

Yea, he's gonna have another sucky year in Jacksonville were he'll get 120+ tackles, close to 10 passes defensed and a couple of interceptions, so glad he's off the team and we have Kelvin Sheppard at MLB.

He would fit right in with these guys. All terrible.

[Ed]

I readily admit my technical knowledge of football is very limited. I'm very grateful for guys like Ingtar and Draftboy who can break this stuff down in ways I can understand. I can tell when players are doing a poor job though, and I've seen a lot of that this season.

Ingtar, I'd like to hear your opinion. Others have expressed the thought that Dave Wannstedt is out of touch with the times, and his pretty simple defensive scheme, which is designed to let good players play without thinking too much. Do you think the scheme is inherently unable to cope with the offensive variety and complexity that is today's NFL, or is it simply a matter of players not doing what they're supposed to do?
I would think that when the defense is playing this bad it would have to be a combination of scheme and performance. Players are clearly blowing assignments, taking bad angles, missing tackles, and what not, but we don't seem to be seeing any adjustments or creativity either.

[X-Era]

He's a pretty basic drawing of what I see happening too often on this defense.

Red is the DL rush patterns, Green in the Mike LB gap responsibility, Blue is Coverage, and Purple is zone coverage. Black is the OL blocks.

15969

As you can see in the diagram with our DE philosophy of getting upfield and to the outside (C Gap) and our DT's going inside (A Gap) is leaving Sheppard with massive holes to fill mostly in the interior gaps (B Gap) while also having to deal with the Center. That leaves lots of options and cutback lanes for the RB if the DL can't get off blocks and into the backfield quickly.
10K... Nice.

It does seem like were leaving LB'ers to cover a ton of ground and cover either an underneath WR (like Welker) or a TE. We lose that battle if we don't have fast guys that can cover the ground.

[X-Era]

Haven't seen a unit with such poor fundamentals and discipline, half the time they forget what their assignment is. Just awful.

Check out another bread down of this past weekend.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Playbook-Chris-Johnson-runs-past-the-Bills.html
2K for the link that has a great breakdown.

[Ingtar33]

I readily admit my technical knowledge of football is very limited. I'm very grateful for guys like Ingtar and Draftboy who can break this stuff down in ways I can understand. I can tell when players are doing a poor job though, and I've seen a lot of that this season.

Ingtar, I'd like to hear your opinion. Others have expressed the thought that Dave Wannstedt is out of touch with the times, and his pretty simple defensive scheme, which is designed to let good players play without thinking too much. Do you think the scheme is inherently unable to cope with the offensive variety and complexity that is today's NFL, or is it simply a matter of players not doing what they're supposed to do?

well... i'm going to have to say i'm not sure WHAT the scheme is supposed to be doing... because there are like 2 or 3 players on EVERY ****** play standing around, looking confused, blowing assignments, or flat out dogging it. The Wannstedt scheme of the end of the 90's wasn't this disaster. His scheme was pretty simple.

He wanted the DL to play a 1 gap penetration, the CBs to play man (he liked a lot of press man, with big CBs), the Safeties to play over the top, and the De/OLB to hold the edge forcing runs inside, back into the backside pursuit. In short his scheme was about pressure. He wanted you to fight the teeth of the defense straight up. To beat his defenses, you needed to run up the middle, or break the edge containment and get outside. You needed to fight through his press coverage before the pass-rush got to the QB, and you had to adjust to the fact timing routs simply didn't work.

It wasn't complicated, but then most defensive schemes aren't. It has it's weaknesses and it's strengths. But one thing it NEEDS (like every other defense in the world) is discipline. You need men to fill their gaps, and let the offense REACT TO YOU. This bills defense doesn't fill their gaps, it reacts to the offense. Once a defense starts to react to the offense the offense will win. Those guys don't trust the guy next to him to fill his gap, so they don't fill theirs and try to 2 gap a defensive scheme made for 1 gap defense. The result is holes open, often gaping, the run or pass isn't directed into the teeth of the defense, rather right into the gaping hole in it.

I don't like the criticism on the scheme... how can you blame the scheme when NO ONE is executing it? It's not complicated. The biggest adjustment going on right now, is the 3-4 requires a lot of 2gap, which we don't play anymore. But switching from 2 to 1 gap should be EASY. There is almost no thinking needed.

It's Wannstedt's job to get them to execute, and be disciplined. So in that way he's failing, and shoudl be blamed... but criticizing a scheme when no one on the field is executing it? nonsense.

[kingJofNYC]

Ingtar pretty much nailed it. Wannstedt may be vanilla, but we can't execute it anyway. There are guys missing assignments all over the place. I think it's really difficult to nail it down to just Wannstedt. When you're failing like they are everyone has a hand in it.

Another breakdown.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/any-given-sunday/2012/any-given-sunday-titans-over-bills

I think we're beginning to see a trend with our safeties in run support. They were awful in this game, awful against the Pats as well.

Here's the New England game.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2012/word-muth-crashing-nickel

[RedEyE]

well... i'm going to have to say i'm not sure WHAT the scheme is supposed to be doing... because there are like 2 or 3 players on EVERY ****** play standing around, looking confused, blowing assignments, or flat out dogging it. The Wannstedt scheme of the end of the 90's wasn't this disaster. His scheme was pretty simple.

He wanted the DL to play a 1 gap penetration, the CBs to play man (he liked a lot of press man, with big CBs), the Safeties to play over the top, and the De/OLB to hold the edge forcing runs inside, back into the backside pursuit. In short his scheme was about pressure. He wanted you to fight the teeth of the defense straight up. To beat his defenses, you needed to run up the middle, or break the edge containment and get outside. You needed to fight through his press coverage before the pass-rush got to the QB, and you had to adjust to the fact timing routs simply didn't work.

It wasn't complicated, but then most defensive schemes aren't. It has it's weaknesses and it's strengths. But one thing it NEEDS (like every other defense in the world) is discipline. You need men to fill their gaps, and let the offense REACT TO YOU. This bills defense doesn't fill their gaps, it reacts to the offense. Once a defense starts to react to the offense the offense will win. Those guys don't trust the guy next to him to fill his gap, so they don't fill theirs and try to 2 gap a defensive scheme made for 1 gap defense. The result is holes open, often gaping, the run or pass isn't directed into the teeth of the defense, rather right into the gaping hole in it.

I don't like the criticism on the scheme... how can you blame the scheme when NO ONE is executing it? It's not complicated. The biggest adjustment going on right now, is the 3-4 requires a lot of 2gap, which we don't play anymore. But switching from 2 to 1 gap should be EASY. There is almost no thinking needed.

It's Wannstedt's job to get them to execute, and be disciplined. So in that way he's failing, and shoudl be blamed... but criticizing a scheme when no one on the field is executing it? nonsense.

Great explanation.

One question I have (and knowing you have been in the business): How do professional football players find themselves not executing on basic football fundamentals? I just don't get this at all. These are professional players that were contracted not for their basic abilities, as their basic abilities should be a given, but they were contracted on the potential of what the average player cannot bring to the table. For these guys not to be able to execute on basic football fundamentals is an absolute disgrace.

[Ingtar33]

Great explanation.

One question I have (and knowing you have been in the business): How do professional football players find themselves not executing on basic football fundamentals? I just don't get this at all. These are professional players that were contracted not for their basic abilities, as their basic abilities should be a given, but they were contracted on the potential of what the average player cannot bring to the table. For these guys not to be able to execute on basic football fundamentals is an absolute disgrace.

It comes down to leadership and character. Players with bad or poor character play like this regardless, though they don't usually reach this level of play unless they're a physical atlas. Since i don't see any physical geniuses on this team it has to be leadership. The players aren't holding eachother accountable. I remember reading once about the civil war. And how men could just line up stationary and shoot at eachother without ducking. The answer was they were more afraid of letting down their friend next to them, then they were of dying. THAT is the type of mindset good leadership needs to instill. The defense is fractured and lacking. No one is leading. Without accountability, there is no reason to just DO your assigned job. They can instead do whatever they want. the ones who want to win try to cover for those who want a paycheck, and the result is no one is doing their jobs.

[YardRat]

Here's the thing about scheme vs execution...

None of us really know what the calls are, and thus what the reads and responsibilities are for each individual for specific circumstance. We can come to pretty decent conclusions based on our observations (DB did with the line play, for example, and a couple of others have as well) but without knowing the details we are still just forming 'best-guess' opinions.

As I referred to DB's post...when Anderson gets caught upfield and a RB shoots a B-gap to the next level, could it be just poor execution by Anderson, a mis-read? Sure it can...but when it's happening to Anderson, Williams, Kelsay, Moore...whoever is lined up outside...on a consistent basis that indicates it's a flaw in the scheme, not execution. The same can be said for the secondary. Gilmore gets beat on a double-move in a cover 1 shell, caught peeking at the QB or another receiver filling the flat. Poor play by Gilmore? A rookie mistake? Maybe. But when A.Williams, Rogers and McGee get beat in the same manner, that's an issue with the responsibilities and expected reads of the corners. When Barnett gets caught trailing a TE coming across the middle is he just over-matched and too slow? At times. But when it's also happening to Moats, Bradham and Scott it's the scheme, not the players. Are guys going to make mistakes? Yes. But not every player is going to make the same mistake over and over again, and it doesn't matter who gets plugged in, the same mistakes are made.

No way in hell our ends should be shooting upfield on every play, or our DT's trying to shoot gaps on every play. They should be reading the formation and either anchoring or shooting based on what they've seen on film the week before, and what they've been told to do. Hell, I'm 5'10 and about a buck-seventy on heavy days and I could play LT on running downs against this defense...the easiest block in the world is the one where the defender takes himself out of play on his own. No way should a corner be thinking anything other than taking his man out of the play in a cover one. No way an OLB should be expected to run with a TE for thirty yards, man-to-man.

That's not even going into disguising coverages, mixing up the pass rush, etc, which from my perspective anyway we have zero capability or desire of even attempting. Or delving into the basic philosophy, which appears to be attack with four guys (the lineman) and sit back to read/react with the other seven. You simply can't play defense in today's NFL that way...it may have worked well enough 20-25 years ago, but it's a recipe for failure in 2012.

[Ingtar33]

but you can tell what the call is. That's part of coaching. part of playing. How do you suppose an offense can function? How do you think they audible? This line that "you can't tell what the call is" is bs. If you can't tell prior to the snap you certainly CAN tell in the video breakdown after the play.

It gets harder to tell what the Bills are supposed to be doing because there are so many players on every play out of position and not executing. Generally though you can tell what they're SUPPOSED to be doing based on what the other half of the team is doing, and with a little review after the play. you want to blame the scheme... fine blame the scheme. But no one is executing the scheme. THAT is the coaches problem, and the players problem. I didn't like the DW hire at all... i don't like him on our sideline (booth actually), but i can't blame the scheme for what we're seeing at the moment.

No coach in football at any level coaches the players to do what they're doing. That everyone is doing it means everyone is at fault. Believe me, as much as i dislike DW, I know he's not coaching his players to play like a bunch of selfish idiots. He's coached too many good solid defenses to do that. None of his previous teams (including at Pitt) played like this. His scheme never called for the stupidity we're seeing. And no one would commit career suicide by actively coaching players into poor fundamentals.

What you're quoting as "scheme" problems are "fundamentals" problems. as in they're football fundamentals reguardless of scheme. you're complaining they're not playing more 2 gap, well this isn't a 2 gap defense. One gap defenses succeed all over the league, but they require the players to fill their gaps. If the DE is supposed to get up-field to seal the edge, the DT, OLB and MLB are needed to work together to keep from creating another gap in the line inside the DE. They aren't doing that because players are lazy or not doing their job, or are flat out unable to do it because they suck (on this team it's all 3).