The BIG Picture of Why Suc for Luck was a good Idea

[Mike]

I dont get your end of it. ****, I ve been saying it for years, I even had a over view of IT... But some of you pansies will never get it. Your so intent on sucking one last win in a meaningless season that you dont see the BIG Picture... and its the Big Picture that determines your future and destiny....


So Here is the BIG Picture
Every Generation has a few elite QBs. These QBs go on to Dominate, really dominate Take the Best 5 right now: Brady (5) P. Manning (2) E. Manning (2) Brees (1) Rogers (1) Rothlisburger (3). In the last Decade these 5 Players have had 14 Superbowl appearances!!! Thats 14 appearances out of a possible 20. Now who else showed up to the Big Dance: Warner, Haselback, Gannon, McNabb, Delhome, Johnson. So what is the Moral of the Story? Top 5 QBs DOMINATED!!! and a Pro Bowl QB is needed to have a chance. Furhter, if you want to win more than one SB, you better have a HOF Top 5 Type QB or it aint happening...

Current Generation
Brady, Manning, Brees, etc.. the old generation is getting old.. they will need to pass on the torch As the Marino, Elway, Kelly, Aikman era bleed into this era, so will this era bleed into the next one...

Currently there is a passing of the torch In the last couple a years a few good prospects have come out and showed they belong: Cam, Bradford, Luck, RG3, Tennehill, Ponder, Dalton, etc.... These players have a chance to become the top QBs of the new generation.

WHy It Was Critical to Get One of the above QBs

Once a generational QB is missed usually it will take at least another 15 years to find another similar prospect, if your are lucky. Last year was a great chance as too of the Best QB prospects of all time were available. Luck was the most highly touted QB to be drafted since Elway and RG3 beat him out that season as best college football player.

NOT LANDING A GENERATION QB MEANS YOUR TEAM WILL BE AT BEST GOOD -BUT NOT GREAT- FOR NEXT 15 YEARS. GOOD TEAMS DONT WIN SB.

* Once the Top Crust of Top NFL QB is determined in a generation it it very difficult to break through that barrier. Its akin to taking down Microsoft or IBM in their heyday or Apple now. These HOF QBs play on such a high lavel, that breaking though that barrier is nearly impossible, just ask Cutler, Vick, Romo, McNabb, etc....

***MIssing out on your chance at a LUCK or RG3 Prospect for a few extra measly wins is incredibly nieve. Your are selling your Future for a meaningless win or two. You are selling the Big Picture for a meaningless win and you are ensuring your own mediocrity for the next generation***

[Joe Fo Sho]

Please tell me who was in charge of tanking the season for the Colts.

[Mike]

Further, THE BILLS are a Day Late and a Dollar Short. No matter how much they suck this year, it wont matter. The boat has sailed the train has left the station. There are No QBs in this years draft that are nearly as good as: Bradford, Cam, Luck, RG3!!!

Last season was their their chance, once again, when the Bills draft a QB it will be Matt Linartesqe...

[Mike]

Please tell me who was in charge of tanking the season for the Colts.

Its amazing to me how many of you can not see this. ITs so obvious. Lets look at the facts. Colts knew that Manning was done for the year, yet what do they do? They let Painter play QB!!!

They were a contender before Manning injury, a contender! They had opportunity to get a good back QB but they passed on it. Multiple times.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Its amazing to me how many of you can not see this. ITs so obvious. Lets look at the facts. Colts knew that Manning was done for the year, yet what do they do? They let Painter play QB!!!

They were a contender before Manning injury, a contender! They had opportunity to get a good back QB but they passed on it. Multiple times.

You didn't answer my question, and I was very careful how I phrased it.

[Mike]

Please tell me who was in charge of tanking the season for the Colts.

I have had this argument before, "Well the players wont tank a season and neither will the coaches, etc... they are all fighting for their jobs. So no NFL team ever tanked a season, such a thing would never happen..."

So let me break it down for you: First good teams dont tank seasons, they have something to play for. Bad teams have nothing to play for or almost nothing. They know changes are coming and they have lost faith in their coaches are not motivated and are going through the motions. If you want a good example of this, just look at the Bills. Heck there are players calling out other players for not playing hard. If you hear about it and I hear about it, imagine what that locker room is like. Division, no motivation, and little effort.

Leadership:
The top of an organization can also aid in the demise of a season, tanking of it. The Colts did this part to perfection. The ownership opted to let a Painter play, and requested that he and that other QB take turns.... Painter started season, then played poorly, so other Qb played for a bit then back to painter. Further, other players were also given chance for more snaps. When a season is lost, often times ownership will request that rookies and 2nd year players are given more snaps.

Mid Season Firings:
In these cases its not uncommon for Owners to fire Coach, or assistant Coaches mid season. It does not need mentioning that this disrupts a team not only from an emotional stand point but also from a technical and strategic one.

- You have to remember that Winning is the Hard part not loosing. To tank a season or influence it to go in a bad direction is very easy. Its so easy it will almost never get noticed. Its like putting to much salt in a meal. Its unnoticeable and ruining the meal is very easy.

[Mike]

Who was in charge? It does not matter. Most likely it came down from the Top.

I dont think the Colts ownership intentionally tanked the season from the get go. I think they found themselves in a predicament with the Manning injure and being competent they knew their season was over. There really is no way to replace Manning. So, realizing this they accepted the notion that they were not going to be as competitive. What happened next was interesting. The players also excepted the notion that it was going to be a very bad season as did the coaches. Next thing you know, the whole team is playing as if it has a pass. Once it was understood which way things were going, starting 0-4 then 0-6, then 0-8 etc..., the team played musical chairs with the QB, placed players on IR, played more rookies and second year players. Once it was evident that they could have LUCK they went for it.

Heck, this years team has allready won 3 games!!! And they arguably had more talent last year outside of QB position.

[Mike]

Compare it to the Bills...when they started 0-8

- Bills start 0-8 find a way to finish with 4 wins and get Darius instead of Cam Newton or Von Miller. Now Darious should become a good player but you can not compare him with a top QB prospect.

- Where are they now? Bills still suck a big one, maybe they are worst now than when they started 0-8
- What about Denver & Carolina = at least both teams have a QB. Denver might go on to win division maybe more. Carolina is having major problems.

[Mike]

At this point I would prefer Cam over MD

[Joe Fo Sho]

Who was in charge? It does not matter. Most likely it came down from the Top.

I dont think the Colts ownership intentionally tanked the season from the get go. I think they found themselves in a predicament with the Manning injure and being competent they knew their season was over. There really is no way to replace Manning. So, realizing this they accepted the notion that they were not going to be as competitive. What happened next was interesting. The players also excepted the notion that it was going to be a very bad season as did the coaches. Next thing you know, the whole team is playing as if it has a pass. Once it was understood which way things were going, starting 0-4 then 0-6, then 0-8 etc..., the team played musical chairs with the QB, placed players on IR, played more rookies and second year players. Once it was evident that they could have LUCK they went for it.

Heck, this years team has allready won 3 games!!! And they arguably had more talent last year outside of QB position.

So was it the Head Coaches idea because he played rookies? Well Jim Caldwell got canned, couldn't have been him.

Was it the GMs idea because he IR'd a bunch of players? Bill Polian and his son got canned, must not have been them.

Must've been Curtis Painters idea then...oh wait, he got cut because they drafted his replacement because he tanked the season!

Your argument makes no sense. Someone has to make the call to tank a season, that person also has to BENEFIT from a tanked season in some way. You've yet to convince me that this is a real thing that any team does.

[Mouldsie]

Organizations will never and should never intentionally tank, but I can still root for it.

[Mike]

So was it the Head Coaches idea because he played rookies? Well Jim Caldwell got canned, couldn't have been him.

Was it the GMs idea because he IR'd a bunch of players? Bill Polian and his son got canned, must not have been them.

Must've been Curtis Painters idea then...oh wait, he got cut because they drafted his replacement because he tanked the season!

Your argument makes no sense. Someone has to make the call to tank a season, that person also has to BENEFIT from a tanked season in some way. You've yet to convince me that this is a real thing that any team does.

Here is what one GM had to say about it:

Polian helped build the Bills teams that went to four consecutive Super Bowls - he was gone after the first three - because he had the good fortune to inherit Jim Kelly after the USFL folded. His best job might have been in Carolina, where the expansion Panthers made the NFC Championship Game in their second year. Collins was his QB and the first player he drafted in franchise history. But he failed the Colts by not signing Matt Hasselbeck or trading for Donovan McNabb or just finding someone better than Painter as soon as the lockout ended.
“Bill Polian is great and he's got a chance at the Hall of Fame,” one GM said. “But in 100 years, I will never understand why they didn't have a backup quarterback who is established. I'm even more shocked that they paid Manning (by signing him to a new contract) without knowing for sure if he could play or not. Then not to have a plan in place in the event he couldn't play or couldn't play early. I'm shocked. The only thing that makes sense is maybe they want Andrew Luck. That would be one thing that would go through your mind.”
Does he think the Colts are intentionally bad?
“I would never accuse anybody of that. Ever,” he said. “I have too much respect for the league and too much respect for the people that do their jobs. But the temptation of thinking it is there. If you are not thinking it, you are stupid.”


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/nfl-draft-lottery-avoid-teams-tanking-stanford-qb-andrew-luck-article-1.968695?pgno=1#ixzz2ALGmLrde

[Mike]

So was it the Head Coaches idea because he played rookies? Well Jim Caldwell got canned, couldn't have been him.
- No he is following order. Caldwell was an ok coach at best. I dont know his strength or weaknesses and how they contributed to the situation
Was it the GMs idea because he IR'd a bunch of players? Bill Polian and his son got canned, must not have been them.
- It could of been Polian. No one knows the value of a QB quite like him and if it worked, and he did not get fired he would be GM for another 12 years. It was a high risk high reward proposition.
- Further, it was an absolute SHOCK that he got fired. No one expected it, not him or his family or even his players. Some have stated that it was his son's fault that they were fired.
Must've been Curtis Painters idea then...oh wait, he got cut because they drafted his replacement because he tanked the season!
- Now you are being sarcastic. Are you suggesting that Curtis Painter can NOT tank a season and that if he Decided he Could Play like Brady or Manning? Is that what you are suggesting that, Painter is Brady like but decided to play like a focking idiot???
Your argument makes no sense. Someone has to make the call to tank a season, that person also has to BENEFIT from a tanked season in some way. You've yet to convince me that this is a real thing that any team does.
- IS that True??? You think the call comes from somewhere then everyone just sucks? Really, you think that a few men sit in a dark room and talk about how to tank a season? LOL. No its SUBTLE, its unnoticeable its the new way.... Its manipulation... It happens slowly and surely and there need not be a call from anywhere. The GM does not even need to know about it. In fact, its better if he does not.

-Owners manipulated the situation.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Here is what one GM had to say about it:

Polian helped build the Bills teams that went to four consecutive Super Bowls - he was gone after the first three - because he had the good fortune to inherit Jim Kelly after the USFL folded. His best job might have been in Carolina, where the expansion Panthers made the NFC Championship Game in their second year. Collins was his QB and the first player he drafted in franchise history. But he failed the Colts by not signing Matt Hasselbeck or trading for Donovan McNabb or just finding someone better than Painter as soon as the lockout ended.
“Bill Polian is great and he's got a chance at the Hall of Fame,” one GM said. “But in 100 years, I will never understand why they didn't have a backup quarterback who is established. I'm even more shocked that they paid Manning (by signing him to a new contract) without knowing for sure if he could play or not. Then not to have a plan in place in the event he couldn't play or couldn't play early. I'm shocked. The only thing that makes sense is maybe they want Andrew Luck. That would be one thing that would go through your mind.”
Does he think the Colts are intentionally bad?
“I would never accuse anybody of that. Ever,” he said. “I have too much respect for the league and too much respect for the people that do their jobs. But the temptation of thinking it is there. If you are not thinking it, you are stupid.”


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/nfl-draft-lottery-avoid-teams-tanking-stanford-qb-andrew-luck-article-1.968695?pgno=1#ixzz2ALGmLrde

So this guy who may or may not be real is suggesting that Bill Polian wanted to get fired?

[Joe Fo Sho]

- IS that True??? You think the call comes from somewhere then everyone just sucks? Really, you think that a few men sit in a dark room and talk about how to tank a season? LOL. No its SUBTLE, its unnoticeable its the new way.... Its manipulation... It happens slowly and surely and there need not be a call from anywhere. The GM does not even need to know about it. In fact, its better if he does not.

That's not 'tanking' a season then. That's called being a bad team.

[Mike]

That's not 'tanking' a season then. That's called being a bad team.

Really? The Colts are a good team for 12 years than all of the sudden they dont have the foresight to see that they need a better back up QB than painter? Really 17 days before season starts. Remember this is not your Buffalo Bills, this is the team that has won more games in last 12 years than any other. This is the team that has the HIGHEST WINNING PERCENTAGE over a decade in NFL HISTORY!

Its that team making this Manipulative decisions. It SUBTLE on purpose if the owners came out and said it, it would destroy the integrity of the league but remember the NFL is a Business, not a league of values. Turning a bad season into another 12 winning seasons = $$$$....

[trapezeus]

i don't think tanking is as obvious as someone saying, "lets go out and lose". i do think the worse teams at the tail end of the season start losing interest. there is injury risk to players and they know their life span is short. so they let up a little. i think the coaches lose focus and have too many holes to address everything. i think subconsciously they make the "safe" call which tends to hurt them in the long run. they kick field goals early andhope to hold on. and that conservative "hope we can survive" just plays its way through. players get the message that no one believes in them and play accordingly.

i think tanking is more a group mentality thing that doesn't really get vocalized. and what is annoying is that someone the bills go through this right now when the sesaon is fresh for the taking, and when its out of their hands they get one or two wins. it doesn't prove anything. they sucked when it counted most. why give me those two wins.

i also agree that deliberately tanking is hard because most GM's and coaches are pegged with the losing. it's their job for losing so they can't promote it or they'll lose their jobs.

I do think Indy gave up without having a figure head say, "give up".

also one annoying thing to note, if Luck would hvae come out early to collect the big paycheck before the CBO, he could have gone first and we could have taken Cam Newton. Nothing ever works out for us.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Luck would hvae come out early to collect the big paycheck before the CBO, he could have gone first and we could have taken Cam Newton. Nothing ever works out for us.

Luck wasn't eligible then. That CBA cost Luck and Cam tens of millions.

[trapezeus]

my mistake. i wasn't exactly sure what year it went down. but luck could have come out a year earlier correct? that was our #3 pick year. if luck went one, cam would hvae been ours because denver already had their first round qb, i believe.

I don't know. i hate this bills organization. i blame russ. he needs to step down.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

No, you need to be 3 yards out from high school. 2010 was the last year without the rookie cap and he was a rising redshirt sophmore that offseason. Too bad for him.

[SABURZFAN]

a team just doesn't tank an entire season for one player in the upcoming drafting. besides, nobody knows if that player will be any good in the NFL. you see players who are "can't misses" who fail and players who never get drafted become Hall of Famers.

[Mike]

So this guy who may or may not be real is suggesting that Bill Polian wanted to get fired?


Its a NEWS article, are you suggesting that its a fake story? Are you suggesting that they made up the source?

[imbondz]

Compare it to the Bills...when they started 0-8

- Bills start 0-8 find a way to finish with 4 wins and get Darius instead of Cam Newton or Von Miller. Now Darious should become a good player but you can not compare him with a top QB prospect.

- Where are they now? Bills still suck a big one, maybe they are worst now than when they started 0-8
- What about Denver & Carolina = at least both teams have a QB. Denver might go on to win division maybe more. Carolina is having major problems.

I bet you cheered when we won those 4 games

[BillsFever21]

I don't believe in intentionally tanking an entire season. That would be tough to do and there isn't any chance you could intentionally only win a game or two without it getting out by players, etc.

Now if you're 2-10 or somewhere in that nature and your team sucks I have no problem tanking the rest of the season to get a higher draft pick for a player you want and I'm sure some teams do. What's the sense of squeaking out another win or two. Would it have been beneficial for the Colts to win a couple more games if they could've and end up missing out on a QB like Luck or even RG3? That would've been a long-term disaster for them.

One example I will give is even with the Bills. In 2002 we were horrible and I think we only had 2 wins at the time when we played the Panthers in Buffalo late in the season. I was at the game so I remember it. We were down by 2 or 3 scores in the 2nd half and came back to beat the Panthers.

Had we lost that game we would've had the #2 pick in the draft and been able to draft a highly touted freak of nature like Julius Peppers when we already had a huge need at DE. By winning that game we ended up with the #4 pick in the draft and ended up drafting a bust in Mike Williams. Was that one measly comeback win worth missing out on Julius Peppers at the time? I would think not.

Like I said it's hard to tank an entire season to only win one or two games but when it's late in the season and your team sucks it wouldn't be hard to tank the last several games to ensure a higher draft pick. I'm sure the Colts were well aware of that last year after they won a couple games in the 2nd half of the season. I would bet that they made sure they didn't win one more lousy game to take them out of the Luck Sweepstakes and possibly even missing out on RG3 in the process. That one game would've cost them the next decade.

Even last season for us. Had we won 3 less games we could've had the #2 pick and drafted RG3. Of course you don't know at the time but if you could go back and time and instead of getting lucky in a few early wins to start the season and then tanking the rest of the way would you have rather lost them games and had RG3 for our QB instead right now? If you could go back in time I'm sure most of you would.

[The King]

What a stupid thread. The Colts brought in Kerry Collins to try and compete. Caldwell, Polian and Manning all lost their jobs, and Cam Newton is a mess. Dumb thread.

[Mike]

i don't think tanking is as obvious as someone saying, "lets go out and lose".
- Exactly, it does not even need to be said. The team is already poor, confidence is down, and losing part of the mentality.
i do think the worse teams at the tail end of the season start losing interest. there is injury risk to players and they know their life span is short. so they let up a little. i think the coaches lose focus and have too many holes to address everything. i think subconsciously they make the "safe" call which tends to hurt them in the long run. they kick field goals early andhope to hold on. and that conservative "hope we can survive" just plays its way through. players get the message that no one believes in them and play accordingly.
- Absolutely It becomes a losing mentality. Coaches also put players on IR earlier, players with nicks, buises, minor injuries will take more time to heal.
- Also it could happen at the beginning of a season, especially when team has losing culture, say 12 years of losing.
- GM & Ownership might instruct Coaches to play Rookies or 2nd year players to see what they have, if coaches aren't already doing this.

i think tanking is more a group mentality thing that doesn't really get vocalized. and what is annoying is that someone the bills go through this right now when the sesaon is fresh for the taking, and when its out of their hands they get one or two wins. it doesn't prove anything. they sucked when it counted most. why give me those two wins.
- Often those extra 2 wins will do more harm than good. That was the difference between the Bills drafting Cam vs MD, it was the difference between Lynch and Patrick Willis and the difference between drafting Lee Evans and Ben Rothlisbuger.

I also agree that deliberately tanking is hard because most GM's and coaches are pegged with the losing. it's their job for losing so they can't promote it or they'll lose their jobs.
I do think Indy gave up without having a figure head say, "give up".
- I think this depends on the situation. A first year coach and GM can get away with a lost season which they have given up in and Manipulate the Situation so that they get better picks by playing rookies etc... not playing starting QB in last game of season, and other techniques. Experimenting with strategy.
- Coaches & GMs on the hot seat will do everything in their power to salvage a lost season however many are often FIRED in the middle of the season

Also one annoying thing to note, if Luck would hvae come out early to collect the big paycheck before the CBO, he could have gone first and we could have taken Cam Newton. Nothing ever works out for us.
- Its unknown but, there are many experts suggest that Denver would have drafted Cam.

[Mike]

I don't believe in intentionally tanking an entire season. That would be tough to do and there isn't any chance you could intentionally only win a game or two without it getting out by players, etc.

Now if you're 2-10 or somewhere in that nature and your team sucks I have no problem tanking the rest of the season to get a higher draft pick for a player you want and I'm sure some teams do. What's the sense of squeaking out another win or two. Would it have been beneficial for the Colts to win a couple more games if they could've and end up missing out on a QB like Luck or even RG3? That would've been a long-term disaster for them.

One example I will give is even with the Bills. In 2002 we were horrible and I think we only had 2 wins at the time when we played the Panthers in Buffalo late in the season. I was at the game so I remember it. We were down by 2 or 3 scores in the 2nd half and came back to beat the Panthers.

Had we lost that game we would've had the #2 pick in the draft and been able to draft a highly touted freak of nature like Julius Peppers when we already had a huge need at DE. By winning that game we ended up with the #4 pick in the draft and ended up drafting a bust in Mike Williams. Was that one measly comeback win worth missing out on Julius Peppers at the time? I would think not.

Like I said it's hard to tank an entire season to only win one or two games but when it's late in the season and your team sucks it wouldn't be hard to tank the last several games to ensure a higher draft pick. I'm sure the Colts were well aware of that last year after they won a couple games in the 2nd half of the season. I would bet that they made sure they didn't win one more lousy game to take them out of the Luck Sweepstakes and possibly even missing out on RG3 in the process. That one game would've cost them the next decade.

Even last season for us. Had we won 3 less games we could've had the #2 pick and drafted RG3. Of course you don't know at the time but if you could go back and time and instead of getting lucky in a few early wins to start the season and then tanking the rest of the way would you have rather lost them games and had RG3 for our QB instead right now? If you could go back in time I'm sure most of you would.

This is exactly what I am talking about. When a Losing team is already at 1-5 or 3-10 whats the benefit of winning? Why didnt the Colts Win few extra games last year, they could have, they had leads??? They blew the leads..,

No one is suggesting going in there Week 1 and losing right off the bat. No were talking about a team that Sucks, that has sucked, and that continues to suck. We are talking about a team that is elimitated from the playoffs. I think it still might be too early to tank this season -and I know some of you may disagree. But 2002 was a great example, 2010? was a good example. There are many examples of the Bills wining the last game of the season in a meaningless game that lead to a lower pick.

[stuckincincy]

Please tell me who was in charge of tanking the season for the Colts.

By the direction of the owner, Irsay, I'd say. Vets were shedded like leaves in Autumn.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

A team giving up on a coach is a team giving up on a coach. That's not tanking. Tanking is intentionally throwing games. No one on the Colts was instructing players to intentionally lose, and if they were, then they got thrown under the bus for it.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Please tell me who was in charge of tanking the season for the Colts.

Honestly, I think it came from Polian and Caldwell. However, Indy got used to success and the fans and the ownership who both wanted wins over ticket and merhcandise sales agreed and got pissed. The Colts ownership demanded wins, unlike Ralph who demands obedience and micromanagement.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Does anyone here really believe this team would be any better than 3-4 right now if we had Luck? Luck isn't really playing that much better than Ryan Fitzpatrick right now. My point is that it wouldn't have mattered, at least in the short term. As bad as this defense is, I'm not sure any QB would be successful here. JMO

[BillsFever21]

Does anyone here really believe this team would be any better than 3-4 right now if we had Luck? Luck isn't really playing that much better than Ryan Fitzpatrick right now. My point is that it wouldn't have mattered, at least in the short term. As bad as this defense is, I'm not sure any QB would be successful here. JMO

Maybe not 7 games into this season but you're not thinking long-term. Would you rather have Luck or Fitzpatrick right now? Plus Luck has a team that only won two games last season and they are 3-3 right now. A team that was horrible on offense and now they look competent and Luck will only get better. Fitzpatrick will only continue to stink and get worse.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Maybe not 7 games into this season but you're not thinking long-term. Would you rather have Luck or Fitzpatrick right now? Plus Luck has a team that only won two games last season and they are 3-3 right now. A team that was horrible on offense and now they look competent and Luck will only get better. Fitzpatrick will only continue to stink and get worse. There's nothing wrong with thinking long term, but how many Bills fans here actually do? At least on this board, fan loyalty turns on a dime virtually every season. No one still knows what the future holds for Luck. Cam Newton was on fire last year, now he isn't doing so well. For this genre of football fans, long term is 3 years when it used to be 5 plus. A majority of the Bills fans here want results today, and don't want to wait another 3 to 5 years. If Luck doesn't have an MVP type season out of the gate as a Bill, he becomes a leper here pretty quick. "No more QB's from Stanford" would become a common thread here. Just saying.

[Albany,n.y.]

Organizations will never and should never intentionally tank, but I can still root for it.
This is what it's all about. Whenever this comes up, I'm always on the side of ROOTING for the team to lose-ME, MYSELF, I-not the players,not the front office-ME!
What usually happens is you get the fans who say anyone who wants to lose a game is a loser-my reply is always this: I am not a player or have any affiliation other than being a fan of the team. As a fan I was there before all the players & mgt except for Ralph Wilson and as long as I survive, I'll be there after all of them are gone. As a fan I have one goal-to see the team win the Super Bowl. I have a different agenda than the players, coach & GM. Their agenda isn't necessarily to win the Super Bowl because no matter how little talent the team has, they have to try every game, otherwise they get what happened in Indy-Fired!

So my reply to those fans who want to win every game, even when the team is well below .500 is this: Fans who root for meaningless games are blurring the distinction between themselves and the team's employees. We should be rooting for championships, not meaningless wins. That's something the employees aren't able to do. Don't you dare call any fan who is not myopic like you and is rooting for the long term interests of the team a loser because they prefer that the team (that we rational fans know we have NO control over) wins a meaningless game.

Now to Indy: I don't think anyone there intentionally tanked the season because as previously stated by others, most of them got fired. The fact that their best backup QB was Curtis Paynter is what doomed the team. The players & coaches tried to the best of their ability because their jobs were on the line, but the fans had every right to root for those losses to pile up.

[Ed]

Of the top 5 qb's mentioned in the first post, only two of them were top 10 picks and one of those two refused to play for the team that drafted him. Two others didn't even get drafted in the first round. It's possible to upgrade the qb position without the entire team being terrible. If we do end up sucking enough to get a top pick I hope we can take advantage, but look at all the top 10 pick qb's that haven't amounted to anything. If we don't end up with a top pick there's no reason we can't get a significant upgrade over Fitz, we just have to pick the right guy.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Its a NEWS article, are you suggesting that its a fake story? Are you suggesting that they made up the source?

Oh, is it a NEWS article? Who cares. The guy is saying that Polian asked to be fired. Are you suggesting that Polian was under the impression that would be able to keep his job if he tanked the season?

[RedEyE]

I honestly don't buy into that teams are "tanking" seasons. And I don't buy it that the Colts tanked last season.

Even well into mid to last season there was still a lot of debate and question concerning Manning and his health and to whether or not his career was over. You don't just dump Peyton Manning and grasp wildly at an unknown. And that is precisely what Luck is now and was then - an UNKNOWN. We're not even half way into his first season and you've already dubbed this kid in the same league as Super Bowl MVPs.

What about Sam Bradford, JeMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, David Carr, and Matthew Stafford? How do they work into your conspiracy theory? Did St. Louis, Oakland, Tennessee, Cincy, Houston and the Lions all tank there seasons too?

I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just pointing out for every 1 of your so called success stories there are 3 other examples that do not pan out.

And really, if teams were "tanking" seasons or blowing games for whatever reason, you inevitably imply that the NFL is rigged. Wouldn't you think that at some point, some player that felt they were wronged in some way would have come forward and blown the whistle on the whole affair?

[Joe Fo Sho]

By the direction of the owner, Irsay, I'd say. Vets were shedded like leaves in Autumn.

So he told Polian and Caldwell that he wanted to cut all of his vets and lose out and they just said "OK boss"? No way Polian would've agreed to that, and Caldwell was trying to prove that he was an NFL caliber coach. Neither of these guys would've done that. It doesn't make sense.

[stuckincincy]

So he told Polian and Caldwell that he wanted to cut all of his vets and lose out and they just said "OK boss"? No way Polian would've agreed to that, and Caldwell was trying to prove that he was an NFL caliber coach. Neither of these guys would've done that. It doesn't make sense.

The NFL is a non-profit organization based in New York. That happens to have 32 team owners possessing varying degrees of narcissism, arrogance, avarice, greed, sportsmanship, bonhomie, competence, etc.

The NFL does not make much sense.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-05/sports/31123203_1_tax-exempt-status-tax-exemptions-antitrust-exemption


:mybills:

[Historian]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not terribly impressed with Luck in the first place.

I know the whole team stinks, but he kinda reminds me of Jack Trudeau, as opposed to Peyton Manning.

Still, I guess hes better than anyone we have, lol.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The NFL is a non-profit organization based in New York. That happens to have 32 team owners possessing varying degrees of narcissism, arrogance, avarice, greed, sportsmanship, bonhomie, competence, etc.

The NFL does not make much sense.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-05/sports/31123203_1_tax-exempt-status-tax-exemptions-antitrust-exemption


:mybills:

I don't know where that comes into play in this argument. Besides, that actually makes a lot of sense from a business stand point.

This argument isn't about the NFL and how it evades taxes, it's about peoples jobs and their families. No way someone gives up on millions of dollars to secure a #1 draft pick for a team they won't be employed by.

[Ed]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not terribly impressed with Luck in the first place.

I know the whole team stinks, but he kinda reminds me of Jack Trudeau, as opposed to Peyton Manning.

Still, I guess hes better than anyone we have, lol.
He's on a bad team so I'll cut him some slack, but right now I'd rather have RGIII.

I thought the trade the Redskins made seemed outrageous at the time, but I'm jealous now.

[starrymessenger]

Really just an opinion mixed with speculation but I think Luck will fully justify his # 1 overall selection.
It's also pretty clear that there can come a time when it makes sense to lose for a chance to draft a guy like that. A few games in a lost season, and indeed the season itself, are really only part of a much greater continuum in the life of a football franchise. This obviously goes against the mantra of going all out to win on every down but that really doesn't change the reality.

[Zero]

This is what it's all about. Whenever this comes up, I'm always on the side of ROOTING for the team to lose-ME, MYSELF, I-not the players,not the front office-ME!
What usually happens is you get the fans who say anyone who wants to lose a game is a loser-my reply is always this: I am not a player or have any affiliation other than being a fan of the team. As a fan I was there before all the players & mgt except for Ralph Wilson and as long as I survive, I'll be there after all of them are gone. As a fan I have one goal-to see the team win the Super Bowl. I have a different agenda than the players, coach & GM. Their agenda isn't necessarily to win the Super Bowl because no matter how little talent the team has, they have to try every game, otherwise they get what happened in Indy-Fired!

So my reply to those fans who want to win every game, even when the team is well below .500 is this: Fans who root for meaningless games are blurring the distinction between themselves and the team's employees. We should be rooting for championships, not meaningless wins. That's something the employees aren't able to do. Don't you dare call any fan who is not myopic like you and is rooting for the long term interests of the team a loser because they prefer that the team (that we rational fans know we have NO control over) wins a meaningless game.

Now to Indy: I don't think anyone there intentionally tanked the season because as previously stated by others, most of them got fired. The fact that their best backup QB was Curtis Paynter is what doomed the team. The players & coaches tried to the best of their ability because their jobs were on the line, but the fans had every right to root for those losses to pile up.

Gold Star for you.

Its pointless for fans to root to win meaningless games when the team sucks.

[Sammy Avalon]

Its amazing to me how many of you can not see this. ITs so obvious. Lets look at the facts. Colts knew that Manning was done for the year, yet what do they do? They let Painter play QB!!!

They were a contender before Manning injury, a contender! They had opportunity to get a good back QB but they passed on it. Multiple times.

What doesn't add up here is that Polian got fired before the draft for expressing his loyalty to Manning. You think ownership ordered the Colts to tank in order to land luck?

[Mike]

2012 Was Different. Luck and RG3 were once in a generation type of prospects. Its like Michael Jordan coming out or L. James and there is a reason why other sport leagues have draft lotteries....

Now, if I was an owner of the Colts, I would do everything in my power to MANIPULATE the situation as much as posible. The difference between winning a losing in the NFL is very very SUBTLE. Look at the Saints this year, starting out 0-4. A year ago they were SB contender, this year they can barely win a game because of a few differences. Now imagine the impact of losing a top QB and the owners Manipulating the situations with a bad team. The results can be devastating.

So, if I was the owner of the Colts, I would have done everything in my power to manipulate the situation so the team could have the worst possible records. I would have not signed a good backup QB or signed one last minute. I would have told the coaches to play backups, try musical chairs with the QBs, and IR players early, etc... I would have used my power, as owner to **** with the things. And the best part is, no one would know. No one would be suspicious, none. The fans, the players, all others would have chalked it up to being a bad team, or poor management, or Manning injury etc.... No one would believe it. And this would be great for business too. The move gives me the chance to have another 10-15 years of great QB play which means more ticket, higher jersey sales, and more MONEY!!!

[Mike]

As for Polian, he thought he was invincible, that he was not fireable. Also, rumor has it that he was let go because of Chris, his son.

I think that the owners saw an opportunity to fire Polian and took it. They knew that if they kept him after this season he would benefit from the Luck pick by making it that much harder to fire for the next decade. Every organization needs to have revamp a clearing of the house, a fresh start, even a winner like the Colts and letting Polian go allowed for that.

[better days]

2012 Was Different. Luck and RG3 were once in a generation type of prospects. Its like Michael Jordan coming out or L. James and there is a reason why other sport leagues have draft lotteries....

Now, if I was an owner of the Colts, I would do everything in my power to MANIPULATE the situation as much as posible. The difference between winning a losing in the NFL is very very SUBTLE. Look at the Saints this year, starting out 0-4. A year ago they were SB contender, this year they can barely win a game because of a few differences. Now imagine the impact of losing a top QB and the owners Manipulating the situations with a bad team. The results can be devastating.

So, if I was the owner of the Colts, I would have done everything in my power to manipulate the situation so the team could have the worst possible records. I would have not signed a good backup QB or signed one last minute. I would have told the coaches to play backups, try musical chairs with the QBs, and IR players early, etc... I would have used my power, as owner to **** with the things. And the best part is, no one would know. No one would be suspicious, none. The fans, the players, all others would have chalked it up to being a bad team, or poor management, or Manning injury etc.... No one would believe it. And this would be great for business too. The move gives me the chance to have another 10-15 years of great QB play which means more ticket, higher jersey sales, and more MONEY!!!

Losing the HC for the season & losing the best OG in the NFL to a division opponent in FA is NOT a subtle difference.

[Mike]

Losing the HC for the season & losing the best OG in the NFL to a division opponent in FA is NOT a subtle difference.

The difference was magnified as a result of how the team responded to the adversity. If they hired Bill Parcels, who uses the same system, or let the Offensive Coordinator become interm the difference would not have had such a large impact. As for the OG, every year every team has turnover, if its one player and he is not Brady or Manning or Brees then its not a HUGE loss.

Look at the Colts now, 4-3. There was a Poll in the beginning of the season, many thought the Colts were awful however they are not.... remember they are only 1 year removed from being a contender.