View Full Version : Was Saints Losing Start Intentional?
This a team that almost went to the Superbowl a few years ago and here they start the season 0-4 and are now 2-5. Granted they were hit by a **** storm in the offseason and lost their starting coach and some players to suspensions. Also, they did lose a few draft picks so they could not improve.
All of this being said, and knowing the mountain that they had to climb the Upper Management, the Coach, the FO and the ownership allowed Sean Payton to Manipulate the Situation so the Saints would not be as competitive. How? Payton, was allowed to pick the interm coach. So who does he pick? He picks Joe Vitt a guy that is not Head Coaching material and more importantly a coach that himself was suspended for 6weeks! This insured that the Saints would not have had any continuity for the first 6 weeks of the season. Even if they found their footing, 6 weeks later comes in a new coach, someone who has not been there since last year and for sure this would have an effect on the team. Second, the Interm coach for the first 6 weeks was also unqualified to be head coach. Now to really get an idea of how poorly this choice was made its important to know who their options were. They could have gone with their Offensive Coordinator, a guy who is a Hot Coaching Candidate and on of the best OC in the NFL. He is a legitimate coaching material. Another coach who came out of the wood works, that was very interested in coaching was Bill Parcels. Payton used to be Bills Parcels offensive coordinator and as a result the Saints team philosophy and terminology was very similar to old Parcels teams. Even their coaching styles ar similar With Parcels the Saints would not lose a beat, they could hit the ground running. Whats even more interesting is that Parcels was very interested and posed no to threat for takeover. He is now older and coaching a very talented team for a season as a friend to Payton was all he was looking for. Parcels would not have kept the job a year later even if it was offered to him.
So why was it that the Saints FO allowed the Interm Coaching position to be so blatantly and intentionally gaffed?
If a coach can Manipulate a situation so effectively on a Great Team which leads them to a 0-4 start can you image what can be done with a far less talented team that lose their QB ala 2012 Colts?
HAMMER
10-29-2012, 09:23 AM
Really? This lose on purpose stuff is so ludicrous.
Skooby
10-29-2012, 09:50 AM
Fantasy.
Joe Fo Sho
10-29-2012, 09:50 AM
They're losing because their defense is almost as bad as ours. Spagnuolo's schemes don't work if you don't have one of the top DLs in the history of the NFL.
YardRat
10-29-2012, 09:53 AM
No.
OpIv37
10-29-2012, 09:54 AM
I could maybe, almost buy losing on purpose in December. Not likely, but possible.
NO ONE is going to intentionally lose in SEPTEMBER.
Luisito23
10-29-2012, 12:03 PM
NO ONE is going to intentionally lose in SEPTEMBER.
Unless it's Mike losing his mind.
imbondz
10-29-2012, 12:22 PM
put the conspiracy books down.
cookie G
10-29-2012, 12:39 PM
Didn't you call yourself a "realist" in another thread?
Damn.
THRILLHO
10-29-2012, 01:43 PM
Dude. Drop it. Even if a coach wants to lose, it still comes down to the players. Try telling Drew Brees to throw a game. Yeah right. On top of that you have guys playing for contracts. Think they are going to play poorly and cost themselves money? Get real.
ThunderGun
10-29-2012, 01:58 PM
This may be the worst thread ever (and that is saying a lot).
SABURZFAN
10-29-2012, 03:39 PM
This may be the worst thread ever (and that is saying a lot).
i've seen worse.....
Skooby
10-29-2012, 04:22 PM
i've seen worse.....
I've started worse.
The last buffalo fan
10-29-2012, 04:37 PM
SABURZFAN[/B]I've started worse.
best post ever! :10: :bf1:
SABURZFAN
10-29-2012, 06:26 PM
best post ever! :10: :bf1:
gracias Papi....
Yes, realist. Can anyone explain the reasoning and Payton's decions?
Anyways, here is my thoughts on it.
1) I think its a Powerplay. Payton did not want anyone else coming in and dethroning him or his power. Imagine if Bill Parcels comes in, what happens if the Saints with the SB??? Payton is OUT!
2) What happens if their Offensive Coordinator becomes interm coach and Saints make playoffs? Saints lose one of the best OC in the NFL as he moves on to become HC somewhere else. Also, it communicates to the Saints organization that it could win without Payton.
Solution: Pick 2 guys as interm coaches who are ZERO threat to you. Do you know how many times Joe Vitt has been talked about as potential HC? ZERO. Now, the downside is that the Saints may not be as good as possible but that risk is acceptable if your Payton, person making decision. Worst case for Payton, the Saints lose more games and he gets a better draft pick which is also the most likely scenario and no one would be the wiser.
Lastly: I dont think the Saints are losing on purpose. This is not a conspiracy theory or tanking a season. No, but I would not put the notion mentioned above past Payton.
Read my post.
I NEVER said or implied that the Saints are Losing on purpose or tanking a season.
I wanted to:
1. See if anyone could explain the reasoning and Payton's decions?
2. To illustrate that the difference between winning and losing is subtle even with great talent and that a little manipulation can go a long way.
Guess WHO is a HOT HOT HOT Coaching Candidate????
Thats right its SEAN PAYTON!!!
His value has skyrocketed after the Saints 0-4 Start.
His Contract extension was void as part of Bounty-gate... Now Teams like the Cowboys, Saints, Eagles, etc may be after him as soon as end of 2012 Season!!!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000091016/article/examining-sean-paytons-future-where-will-he-land
[PS: If Saints start out 5-3 instead of the other way around and look decent, Payton would be in SOL situation. He would be a tainted coach who will be seen as replaceable and much of the credit would have gone towards the players. If they won a SB or made a deep playoff run with a formidable coach like their OC or Bill Parcells, then there would be very little chance he returns and his open market value might be a fraction of what it is now.]
This is was selfish move by an egomaniac coach protecting his career.
"Sean Payton is smarter than I thought, and I thought he was plenty smart. Before his suspension he helped the Saints pick his coaching replacement for the 2012 season, and he screwed up the process so much that the Saints (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/page/NO/new-orleans-saints) went into the dumper. This isn't hindsight, either. I saw it happening in April, and wrote about it then. (http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/18584844/what-payton-wants-is-obvious-but-why-would-saints-want-it-too)
But Payton is smarter even than that. He has manipulated events so thoroughly that a return to the Saints as the conquering hero, which looked to be his end game back in April, has become an afterthought. It could still happen, sure -- but that has become the least of his options.
Unless Roger Goodell pulls another Roger Goodell and smites Sean Payton for the hell of it, Payton is about to become the most coveted, most expensive free agent coach in NFL history."
"All I know is Sean Payton handpicked some of the most obviously non-threatening guys he could. And I know why: Because Sean Payton is all about Sean Payton. Even as he has overseen three years of outrageous behavior that gutted the Saints -- cost them their head coach for 16 games, another coach for six games, their general manager for eight games, plus draft picks and fines -- Sean Payton made the call to replace Sean Payton with men who would do the job fairly well.But not too well."
You have to Give it to HIM!!!! In a suspension year, Sean Payton has managed to SUBSTANTIALLY INCREASE his value!!!
http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/18584844/what-payton-wants-is-obvious-but-why-would-saints-want-it-too
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...-way-to-dallas (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/20854997/payton-could-skate-out-of-new-orleans-all-the-way-to-dallas)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...not-be-allowed (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1123645-sean-payton-his-recruitment-of-bill-parcells-should-not-be-allowed)
Can we all agree NOW that some of the MEN in the NFL MANIPULATE SITUATIONS for their benefit and that its Extremely EFFECTIVE....
IF a SUSPENDED COACH can screw things around to such an extent that a SUPER BOWL CONTENDER starts out 0-4 Imagine whats possible with a low talent team that just lost their HOF QB for the year!!!
kingJofNYC
11-10-2012, 04:10 PM
I love how you're basically having a conversation with yourself.
I love how you're basically having a conversation with yourself.
This is why I have the 'I told you so threads'...
Basically I share an observation. Everyone comes out against me. I show evidence, and everyone disappears....
During the argument, they offer to eat crow. They ask me to prove them wrong and when I do, they complain...or disappear... Where is the honor in that?
feldspar
11-10-2012, 09:06 PM
This is why I have the 'I told you so threads'...
Basically I share an observation. Everyone comes out against me. I show evidence, and everyone disappears....
During the argument, they offer to eat crow. They ask me to prove them wrong and when I do, they complain...or disappear... Where is the honor in that?
I really don't hope you are including this thread in those where this type of stuff may happen. The premise of this thread is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't even justify a response, really.
I really don't hope you are including this thread in those where this type of stuff may happen. The premise of this thread is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't even justify a response, really.
What's so ridiculous about it?
Albany,n.y.
11-11-2012, 03:48 PM
What's so ridiculous about it?
The fact that starting 0-4 doesn't help them in any way, shape or form. If you're premise was correct they wouldn't have played their asses off today to beat the league's last undefeated team unless their only goal this season is to keep Miami's perfect season intact.
The fact that starting 0-4 doesn't help them in any way, shape or form. If you're premise was correct they wouldn't have played their asses off today to beat the league's last undefeated team unless their only goal this season is to keep Miami's perfect season intact.
You Didn't Read Any of the Articles.
I am pretty sure you also didn't read my posts fully.
You Didn't Read Any of the Articles.
I am pretty sure you also didn't read my posts fully.
It sounds like you read everyone else's presumptions. This thread is about how 1man, Sean Payton, manipulated the interim coach process & selection in such a way as to 1) not threatened his job 2) remain viable. Payton, is now the hottest FA coach in the NFL and the Saints poor start was the best sales pitch ever!
This has nothing to do saints losing on purpose or some ******ed crap that the other posters assumed. It has to do it how 1 man was able to manipulate an organization & have an influence on outcomes.
Mr. Pink
11-11-2012, 04:36 PM
It sounds like you read everyone else's presumptions. This thread is about how 1man, Sean Payton, manipulated the interim coach process & selection in such a way as to 1) not threatened his job 2) remain viable. Payton, is now the hottest FA coach in the NFL and the Saints poor start was the best sales pitch ever!
This has nothing to do saints losing on purpose or some ******ed crap that the other posters assumed. It has to do it how 1 man was able to manipulate an organization & have an influence on outcomes.
Because Payton wouldn't be the hottest FA coach in the NFL if the Saints were undefeated? You're grasping for straws on your tanking point that is completely off base in your many assumptions that it exists.
Because Payton wouldn't be the hottest FA coach in the NFL if the Saints were undefeated? You're grasping for straws on your tanking point that is completely off base in your many assumptions that it exists.
What are you referring to? There were 3 articles written on it. Three!!! All pointed to the fact that Sean Payton should have never been allowed to pick his replacement. Then he picks a chump & a guy who is suspended for first 6games. No surprise the Saints start 0-4. Quickly Sean Payton's name Starts getting thrown around as a Hot coaching candidate.
In the offseason Mike&Mike in the Morning on ESPN talked about this issue: if Saints start out Hot it confirms the notion that all you need is great talent & that coaching is overrated. The Mikes said coaches from around NFL were paying special attention how the Saints start. The slow start demonstrated the opposite, a great coaches value. If Carmichael or Parcels were chosen & Saints start out Hot then without doubt Payton's value drops!
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