why did we trade for travaris jackson [Archive] - BillsZone.com

T-Long

11-16-2012, 07:46 AM

I was thinking the same thing. I think their plan was to bring him in in hopes of re-signing him so we had a veteran backup once Thigpen is gone next year. But then I feel like we are going to QB early in the draft, so then it may get messy. But I agree, if we are going to give up a pick for an inactive QB and then not sign him back is a horrible business move

coastal

11-16-2012, 07:47 AM

There's something more to this story that were not getting.

Joe Fo Sho

11-16-2012, 07:52 AM

I bet we activate him soon. We're passed the point of giving up a higher round draft pick to add him to our active roster.

OpIv37

11-16-2012, 08:13 AM

Mr. Miyagi

11-16-2012, 08:22 AM

At the time when we traded for him, the plan was to have him beat out Pigpen to be #2, and staying with Fitz as the starter for the long haul.

Of course, Fitz has shown us through the season that he sucks ass. So the plan has changed to drafting a young guy early, pushing Fitz to a backup role or outright cut him, and Jackson suddenly doesn't fit the plan.

mysticsoto

11-16-2012, 08:41 AM

There's something more to this story that were not getting.

I agree. For this, we should have kept VY...

GingerP

11-16-2012, 09:20 AM

I think the draft pick we traded was conditional based on Jackson dressing for more than a certain amount of games. I suspect we will start seeing him dressed for games soon. But if we do draft a QB, they will just let him walk at the end of the year. As bad as Fitz is, he's far more suited to help groom a young QB than anyone else on the roster (and, unfortunately, probably more suited than anyone on the coaching staff as well).

How much are you going to pay for a guy to "groom" your young QB? Fitzpatrick is due a $3M roster bonus and $4.25M base salary next year.

What evidence is there that Fitzpatrick would be suited to groom a young QB? He has said on many occasions he sees himself as the starting QB for this team, why would he help someone else take his job?

trapezeus

11-16-2012, 09:32 AM

to me it seems like the bills knew that thigpen wouldn't be able to play at all. and they took tjax to hedge against fitz multi game injury risk.

and since he didn't get hurt, it looks like an expensive,useless hedge.

but had fitz gotten hurt, i think tjax would have been dressed as number 2 for first game, and if fitz was still missing for a second straight week, the coaching staff would have fought so hard to get him into action the following week.

i think tjax is the odd man out in this equation next year. Clearly thigpen is gone as well. i think the team optimally wants draft a qb in the 2-4th round. i think they want to ride with fitz again if possible to save face for signing him. So if the team wins, they'll keep fitz regardless of his stats and draft a qb later to "groom". If fitz plays like he has and they keep losing and miss the playoffs, they'll have to cut fitz. Maybe tjax and a rookie from round 1 will be on the roster openning day and they'll have fought it out in camp to see who gets the gig.

Johnny Bugmenot

11-16-2012, 09:41 AM

trapezeus

11-16-2012, 09:49 AM

Because they needed an excuse to get rid of Vince Young without looking like complete, bumbling amateurs. Young outplayed Fitzpatrick, and it was obvious. Yet Fitz can lead the team to four straight preseason game embarrassments and Young can hold his own for three out of four, yet the one meaningless game he doesn't gets him axed while Fitz stays.

not necessarily a fair assessment. young went against the back-ups and he's been known to be a cancer in the locker rooms and way out there.

if i was a coach, young would have to be lights out better and phenomenal to consider the change. fitz is beloved by the locker room. to make the change, you have to have a guy who can process that the move is stepping on toes and can guarantee wins. i didn't think young showed that at all in the preseason.

11-16-2012, 10:08 AM

I think it's pretty simple. The Bills genuinely believed that they would be a playoff team this year and expected Fitz to play well. They knew that if something happened to him and they had to turn to Thigpen than their chances would be screwed. They obviously didn't believe in Young either. So Jackson seemed like the best available option for a backup that could come in and still give them a chance to win in the event that Fitz got hurt. Ideally they would have liked Young to step up and prove to be a capable backup, but he failed. They traded for Jackson too late for him to be able to step into the #2 role right away so they were forced to keep Thigpen too. Now there's no point in activating him until the conditional pick they traded becomes less valuable. If Fitz had gotten injured at some point earlier in the year and had to miss a lot of time I think you would have seen Jackson activated and playing. Jackson was just insurance that ended up being kind of a waste.

MTBillsFan

11-16-2012, 10:11 AM

He may know Seattle's playbook so he's simply on the roster to give the Bills an edge in Toronto?

GingerP

11-16-2012, 10:20 AM

Young outplayed Fitzpatrick, and it was obvious.

Young looked absolutely terrible in preseason. He looked completely lost with no idea what he was doing. He completed 48% of his passes, had 5.3 Yards-per-attempt, no TDs, 2 ints and took 3 sacks. He QB Rating was 48.2.

Fitzpatrick may be bad, but he wasn't that bad. Every team in the league watches preseason games and nobody has picked up Young. The Bears just signed Josh McCown, for Christ's sake.

Young was a great player in college, but he flamed out as a pro. He sucks, that is why the Bills got rid of him and that is why nobody else has thought about adding him to their team.

mysticsoto

11-16-2012, 10:21 AM

not necessarily a fair assessment. young went against the back-ups and he's been known to be a cancer in the locker rooms and way out there.

if i was a coach, young would have to be lights out better and phenomenal to consider the change. fitz is beloved by the locker room. to make the change, you have to have a guy who can process that the move is stepping on toes and can guarantee wins. i didn't think young showed that at all in the preseason.

And the FO knew what VY was like before they brought him in...so why bother then? VY is def better than Thigpen and sometimes comes close to besting Fitz...he also brings an added dimension in being able to run also.

TJ was just a waste of a pick. He's done nothing, and for doing nothing, we could have kept VY and kept our draft pick. If Fitz went down, I would not feel comfortable with TJ in there...had Vince been kept, I'd probably be somewhat more comfortable...

jimmifli

11-16-2012, 12:29 PM

There's something more to this story that were not getting.

I don't think Chan and Buddy are on the same page about QBs.

trapezeus

11-16-2012, 12:58 PM

i don't think young would have been the good soldier in any season but namely this difficult season.

young was a flier...it was a calculated risk. $1mm to see if it works out? not bad.

coastal

11-16-2012, 02:38 PM

I don't think Chan and Buddy are on the same page about QBs.
I agree. I think there differences extend beyond QBs.

BADTHINGSMAN

11-16-2012, 03:33 PM

To keep the cycle of crap QB's going. Also to not find the need to draft a QB.

YardRat

11-16-2012, 08:04 PM

I agree. For this, we should have kept VY...

Because they needed an excuse to get rid of Vince Young without looking like complete, bumbling amateurs. Young outplayed Fitzpatrick, and it was obvious. Yet Fitz can lead the team to four straight preseason game embarrassments and Young can hold his own for three out of four, yet the one meaningless game he doesn't gets him axed while Fitz stays.

And the FO knew what VY was like before they brought him in...so why bother then? VY is def better than Thigpen and sometimes comes close to besting Fitz...he also brings an added dimension in being able to run also.

TJ was just a waste of a pick. He's done nothing, and for doing nothing, we could have kept VY and kept our draft pick. If Fitz went down, I would not feel comfortable with TJ in there...had Vince been kept, I'd probably be somewhat more comfortable...

Young was in no way better than any QB during the preseason, let alone Fitz.

Also, the team had no clue what they were getting in VY, especially from a personal finance perspective. He was released as soon as the bill collectors started pounding on OBD's doors looking for VY's money, and that's something the team wanted no part of.

YardRat

11-16-2012, 08:07 PM

As far as the thread subject, if TJax doesn't start dressing very soon (to verify the 'draft pick theory') than I've got to agree with coastal...there's more to this 'story' than anybody is getting. Nobody trades for a guy just prior to the season, uninjured, just to sit his ass on the sidelines all year and make him take notes.

IAG

11-16-2012, 08:14 PM

Won't the Bills get a compensatory pick if Jackson leaves via FA in 2014? Nothing hurt folks.

YardRat

11-16-2012, 08:16 PM

Won't the Bills get a compensatory pick if Jackson leaves via FA in 2014? Nothing hurt folks.

I wouldn't count on a comp pick for a player that sat inactive for an entire season. That's a pretty small 'loss' to take into account.

ZAZusmc03

11-20-2012, 11:11 AM

Just wanted to bump this thread after reading this article:
http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2012/11/chan-gailey-on-tarvaris-jackson-thats-not-happening-this-year.html

DraftBoy

11-20-2012, 11:22 AM

I agree. I think there differences extend beyond QBs.

I agree with this whole heartidly. Buddy drafts 3-4 defensive personnel, Gailey brings in a DC who he knows is going to go back a 43. Buddy drafts CJ Spiller, Gailey has some kind of weird loyalty to Jackson and Choice. There are a few more examples as well but it would not shock me to learn later on that these two are not or were not on the same page.

Night Train

11-20-2012, 11:33 AM

He's a decent backup and Fitz can't be sold to the buying public again.

If they seriously try to stay status quo, they will be left wondering why the season ticket invoices aren't being returned, come next spring/summer.

11-20-2012, 11:45 AM

I agree with this whole heartidly. Buddy drafts 3-4 defensive personnel, Gailey brings in a DC who he knows is going to go back a 43. Buddy drafts CJ Spiller, Gailey has some kind of weird loyalty to Jackson and Choice. There are a few more examples as well but it would not shock me to learn later on that these two are not or were not on the same page.
It was also rumored around draft time in 2011 that one of them was high on Cam Newton, but the other was not.

stuckincincy

11-20-2012, 12:17 PM

I think the draft pick we traded was conditional based on Jackson dressing for more than a certain amount of games. I suspect we will start seeing him dressed for games soon. But if we do draft a QB, they will just let him walk at the end of the year. As bad as Fitz is, he's far more suited to help groom a young QB than anyone else on the roster (and, unfortunately, probably more suited than anyone on the coaching staff as well).

Ah -the money angle.I'm guessing that his contract had language calling for more $ if activated, and/or played. Years ago, Mike Brown brought back Boomer Esiason, who rattled off 4 wins and was player of the month. Then Brown sat him before performance money set in. There is no love lost...

trapezeus

11-20-2012, 12:21 PM

how are you not on the same page as the guy you hire? that seems inexcusable.

With extra days off this week, there should be zero reason that T jax hasn't replaced thigpen.

better days

11-20-2012, 12:57 PM

I think the draft pick we traded was conditional based on Jackson dressing for more than a certain amount of games. I suspect we will start seeing him dressed for games soon. But if we do draft a QB, they will just let him walk at the end of the year. As bad as Fitz is, he's far more suited to help groom a young QB than anyone else on the roster (and, unfortunately, probably more suited than anyone on the coaching staff as well).

If I remember right, a 6th if he plays a 7th if he doesn't. In either case, he was a CHEAP pick up & may help with info when we play the Hawks.

DraftBoy

11-20-2012, 01:14 PM

how are you not on the same page as the guy you hire? that seems inexcusable.

With extra days off this week, there should be zero reason that T jax hasn't replaced thigpen.

There is another team in our division with this issue.

Joe Fo Sho

11-20-2012, 01:19 PM

If I remember right, a 6th if he plays a 7th if he doesn't. In either case, he was a CHEAP pick up & may help with info when we play the Hawks.

It stays a 7th though if we activate him AFTER week 10, friggin activate his ass.

The King

11-20-2012, 01:41 PM

Maybe they were counting on Jackson being a quick learner and he hasnt lived up to that. It was a low risk to secure some depth behind Fitz and he hasn't progressed.

DraftBoy

11-20-2012, 01:55 PM

Maybe they were counting on Jackson being a quick learner and he hasnt lived up to that. It was a low risk to secure some depth behind Fitz and he hasn't progressed.

Its not about learning though, its about reps. Gailey won't give him the reps he needs to be comfortable in the offense.

stuckincincy

11-20-2012, 02:25 PM

Its not about learning though, its about reps. Gailey won't give him the reps he needs to be comfortable in the offense.

I'm sure you are right about that. And it matters, of course.

Mr. Pink

11-21-2012, 08:22 AM

Maybe they were counting on Jackson being a quick learner and he hasnt lived up to that. It was a low risk to secure some depth behind Fitz and he hasn't progressed.

The way it turned out, we shoulda just kept VY to not dress.

Jeff1220

11-21-2012, 08:34 AM

There is definitely more to this. Idk what, but this is unusual...the reps thing sounds like an excuse. If Gailey and Nix are indeed not on the same page, then Nix should have no problem looking for a new HC for 2013.

ThunderGun

11-21-2012, 09:07 AM

It's simple...they really thought that we were going to turn the corner this season, and they wanted to have a halfway-decent QB available in case Fitz got hurt again. Thigpen and Young were clearly terrible. They obviously had no intention of ever benching Fitz this season, so they haven't bothered to activate Jackson.

They only gave up a 7th round pick for him (conditional....could have turned into a 6th if he was active for 6 games), so I don't see the reason for crying about giving up a draft pick. Seems like our 7th round picks aren't usually active anyways (John Potter, Michael Jasper, Kyle Calloway, ect).

I can't believe so many of you think that there is "something more to this".

kishoph

11-21-2012, 10:58 AM

Its not about learning though, its about reps. Gailey won't give him the reps he needs to be comfortable in the offense.

I can't understand why he can't take Thigpen's reps, if he would of been getting the 2nd string reps all along he would of grasped the system by now. Some of the roster moves that have been made, border on idiotic. If Fitz was to get hurt and Thigpen sucked (imagine that) or got injured, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Levi Brown brought in before-they gave it to T-Jax. The best move they could of made, was to contact the Steelers and at least try to get something for him, I really doubt that we'll ever see T-Jax dressed to play for the Bills.

GingerP

11-21-2012, 12:04 PM

The best move they could of made, was to contact the Steelers and at least try to get something for him, I really doubt that we'll ever see T-Jax dressed to play for the Bills.

It is past the trading deadline.

jimmifli

11-21-2012, 02:09 PM

kishoph

11-21-2012, 05:03 PM

It is past the trading deadline.

Thanks, my brain doesn't always catch things before my fingers type. When they first got him, I wasn't really against it, but it has turned into another OBD blunder.
I can give Gailey credit for being able to design an offense (not necessarily for our personnel), but his roster moves leave a lot to be desired.

Extremebillsfan247

11-23-2012, 06:13 AM

We gave away a draft pick for a guy who has yet to be active and whose contract is up at the end of the year. he should be good enough to at least beat out thigpen for #2.
He was brought in as a last resort should both Fitzpatrick and Thigpen get injured. He has zero practice time in the Bills offensive system. That's the biggest problem he has, and why he isn't the #2 QB right now.