I'm convinced we are being Major League'd.....

[OpIv37]

A few years back, someone on this site brought up the idea that we are being Major League'd -ie, the team is being intentionally run into the ground to devalue it and make it easier to move (I'd give credit but I can't remember who it was).

At first I thought the idea was interesting, but not necessarily true. Now, it seems to be the only possible explanation.

13 years with no playoffs. Over that time period, we've had 5 different coaches: Phillips, Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey. We've had 4 different GM's: Donahoe, Brandon, Levy, Nix. We've had a bunch of different starting QB's: Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman, Holcomb, Edwards, Fitzpatrick.... and no matter what the combination was, the results were the same. Only one winning season in 13 years, no playoffs.

This was the year things were supposed to be different. We went out and got a high priced FA in Mario Williams, we re-signed Stevie and Fred Jackson, whereas in the past players like that would have been allowed to walk. Yet, the results are the same.

How is this possible by accident or random chance? You could intentionally try to do things wrong and still not be this bad.

The Bills have certainly weakened their bargaining position with the county/state on a stadium deal with this poor play, and it won't get any better now that we are about to start seeing blackouts. It makes it easier for the team to say "well we couldn't get what we wanted from the local governments so we were forced to move on." And with the exception of Mario Williams, they have consistently kept payroll costs low and definitely control other costs like coaching and FO personnel... that makes the purchase of the team easier.

Yeah, I know, it's a borderline conspiracy theory and it sounds a bit crazy, but is it really that much crazier than "we really are just THAT incompetent"?

[Historian]

I think it's a perfect storm of several things:

The scouting department has been terrible since Dwight Adams was squeezed out.
We haven't had a team in shape since Rusty Jones was let go.
Ralph Wilson confuses a syncophat with a loyal employee, and quite franlky, is pretty old to be overseeing the day to day.
Brandon is only good at one thing: Putting lipstick on pigs.

Add to that the most loyal fanbase in all sports, who wants to win so bad, the will believe in almost anybody...and you have a recipe for a permanent bottom feeder. And don't forget Wilson forcing Phillips to sue for his last year's salary, after being wrongfully dismissed. Agree with the firing or not, league rules are quite clear as to what is supposed to happen....the contract is paid off. That one act, I believe, is the reason no top-flight Coach will come here.

[Skooby]

The management / coaching staff is about as weak as it gets & Ralph burned all his bridges with anyone of value that would even consider coming to Buffalo. They are so weak that the play calling has Fitz running to the middle of the field to set up a FG, instead of trying to get the several yards needed for a first down.

[djjimkelly]

maybe its being devalued so someone local can afford it


ever thought of that angle if your thinking like this

[OpIv37]

maybe its being devalued so someone local can afford it


ever thought of that angle if your thinking like this

ah yes, the mystery local buyer that's being worked behind the scenes. Someone brings this up every time the moving issue comes up, despite the fact that there is absolutely zero evidence of it actually happening. And how does weakening the Bills' negotiating position with the state and county on the stadium issue help a local buyer anyway?

[Joe Fo Sho]

ah yes, the mystery local buyer that's being worked behind the scenes. Someone brings this up every time the moving issue comes up, despite the fact that there is absolutely zero evidence of it actually happening. And how does weakening the Bills' negotiating position with the state and county on the stadium issue help a local buyer anyway?

Is there evidence of ANYONE interested in buying this team? Whether local or otherwise?

[Jeff1220]

I'm pretty convinced that the Bills will be an LA team within the next 5 years.

[OpIv37]

Is there evidence of ANYONE interested in buying this team? Whether local or otherwise?

There's evidence that Ralph is dying, and his family has been very open about the fact that they don't want to own the team after he passes. So, nature is going to force a change of ownership sooner or later (most likely sooner) regardless if anyone is interested.

The groups building the stadiums in LA have said the Bills are on the list of teams they are targeting.

[Bangarang]

I'm pretty convinced that the Bills will be an LA team within the next 5 years.

They wouldn't be the Bills if that were to happen.

[DynaPaul]

If they move to LA I can't be a fan anymore. They're not even going to be the Bills. This is Buffalo as in New York State and the only New York team in the league. (Until the Jets and Giants start playing within New York borders they are still New Jersey.) I'd have to change my fanship to some other team because the Bills in LA are just not the Bills anymore. Still, I think the Jaguars are the first team to go out west since they have an anemic fan base and can't sell out any games. Are we being Major League'd? I don't know. Is it the curse of the cemetery at the Ralph? I don't know. All I know is that this team has been run poorly since the last remnants of the Bill Polian era moved on to greener pastures somewhere else a long time ago. If you're going to drop the big dollars then make it on a top notch staff Ralph. You need a savvy GM and a smart motivating coach to get it done.

[OpIv37]

If they move to LA I can't be a fan anymore. They're not even going to be the Bills. This is Buffalo as in New York State and the only New York team in the league. (Until the Jets and Giants start playing within New York borders they are still New Jersey.) I'd have to change my fanship to some other team because the Bills in LA are just not the Bills anymore. Still, I think the Jaguars are the first team to go out west since they have an anemic fan base and can't sell out any games. Are we being Major League'd? I don't know. Is it the curse of the cemetery at the Ralph? I don't know. All I know is that this team has been run poorly since the last remnants of the Bill Polian era moved on to greener pastures somewhere else a long time ago. If you're going to drop the big dollars then make it on a top notch staff Ralph. You need a savvy GM and a smart motivating coach to get it done.

It all goes back to Ralph. He can't find a competent GM or head coach to save his life. I don't know if it's because he underpays. I don't know if it's because he has a bad reputation for how he treats GM's/coaches. I do know that this team will never win as long as he's in charge, and that we aren't guaranteed to have a team once he's no longer in charge. It's a terrible situation.

[BertSquirtgum]

This thread is a ****** wearing a bike helmet.

[ZAZusmc03]

It all goes back to Ralph. He can't find a competent GM or head coach to save his life. I don't know if it's because he underpays. I don't know if it's because he has a bad reputation for how he treats GM's/coaches. I do know that this team will never win as long as he's in charge, and that we aren't guaranteed to have a team once he's no longer in charge. It's a terrible situation.

Not to mention that although the Jags have a terrible fan base, they lease makes it near impossible for them to move to LA. As much as we all hate to admit it, the situation with the Bills makes them the best and most likely choice to relocate.

[Jeff1220]

If the Bills move, I'm just done with NFL football. No new team to follow for me, and life just becomes that much simpler.

[OpIv37]

This thread is a ****** wearing a bike helmet.

well-reasoned, insightful response. I've come to expect nothing but the best from you.

[DraftBoy]

The issue here is the Mario contract

If this team was truly being major league'd no way they hand out that kind of contract.

[OpIv37]

Not to mention that although the Jags have a terrible fan base, they lease makes it near impossible for them to move to LA. As much as we all hate to admit it, the situation with the Bills makes them the best and most likely choice to relocate.

Yup. If a team has to move to LA, Jax makes the most sense by far, but that stadium lease is a *****. It's the most ironclad in the history of sports. Meanwhile, the Bills have no lease after 2012, which makes it all too easy for them to walk away. The only thing keeping them in place is the Toronto deal, and the new owners could easily either buy that out or just suck up the cost and play the remaining 3 or 4 games until that contract ends. Either way would be easier and cheaper than getting out of that Jacksonville lease.

[OpIv37]

The issue here is the Mario contract

If this team was truly being major league'd no way they hand out that kind of contract.

I don't agree for one reason only: the team has been so cheap for so long. One big contract isn't a dealbreaker when everyone else is so cheap.

[DraftBoy]

I don't agree for one reason only: the team has been so cheap for so long. One big contract isn't a dealbreaker when everyone else is so cheap.

Agreed, but combine that with Stevie's 7.25 annually, 19.5 guaranteed along with Anderson's money, Spiller's nearly fully guaranteed contract, and Gilmore having the same and the Bills have some decent chunk of change locked up the next couple of years for a team that is being major leagued.

[Joe Fo Sho]

There's evidence that Ralph is dying, and his family has been very open about the fact that they don't want to own the team after he passes. So, nature is going to force a change of ownership sooner or later (most likely sooner) regardless if anyone is interested.

The groups building the stadiums in LA have said the Bills are on the list of teams they are targeting.

Link?

Your first statement doesn't favor either argument, but supports both.

[OpIv37]

Agreed, but combine that with Stevie's 7.25 annually, 19.5 guaranteed along with Anderson's money, Spiller's nearly fully guaranteed contract, and Gilmore having the same and the Bills have some decent chunk of change locked up the next couple of years for a team that is being major leagued.
Well they also have the salary cap floor and they also have to at least look like they are trying.... obviously there is no way to prove this one way or the other. I just can't understand how football professionals with the experience, knowledge and resources that these guys have can be so consistently bad for so long. Just look at the 2010 draft. A 15 year old could have gone into 7-11, bought a couple of draft guides, and done a better job.

[gebobs]

They are so weak that the play calling has Fitz running to the middle of the field to set up a FG
Correction: to set up a punt.

[BertSquirtgum]

well-reasoned, insightful response. I've come to expect nothing but the best from you.

This idea that this team or any team would truly be major leagued is ******ed. Fact.

[trapezeus]

NFL doesnt want to move cross country...they got burned by this in the LA Rams to ST move. The team they would ideally like to move is the chargers or raiders.

It is curious that they get the wrong calls every game at critical times. they make dubious decisions every game. players miss assignments every game.

And what is stunning is the number of players who leave and are much better elsewhere. maybin is the exception. everyone else has a life. hell, even whitner is doing ok (though still burned the most of any Safety in the NFL).

[OpIv37]

This idea that this team or any team would truly be major leagued is ******ed. Fact.

You calling it a "fact" doesn't make it one. Try writing a well-reasoned response with some logic or evidence instead of just lashing out in anger because your feeble mind can't deal with an unpleasant thought.

[BertSquirtgum]

You calling it a "fact" doesn't make it one. Try writing a well-reasoned response with some logic or evidence instead of just lashing out in anger because your feeble mind can't deal with an unpleasant thought.

Maybe you're not actually watching the games. Gailey is truly just this incompetent, that much is apparent.

[gebobs]

Maybe you're not actually watching the games. Gailey is truly just this incompetent, that much is apparent.
Part of the strategy just might be putting the worst guy possible in the position.

[BertSquirtgum]

Anyone that would continue to play noodle arm after his horrendous performances is borderline ******ed.

[Historian]

If we were being "Major Leagued"....wouldn't the team have to actually give a ****?

[BertSquirtgum]

Instead of being major leagued I would say Ralph is being robbed and probably manipulated into overpaying every one of these idiots in the front office. He is too old and feeble to do something about it. Ralph from ten years ago would never put up with this garbage.

[BertSquirtgum]

and maybe these idiots in the front office are being paid by some buyer from out of town to make this team suck. Sounds just as stupid as being major league'd huh?

- - - Updated - - -

or maybe they're just idiots.

[Jeff1220]

Major leagued or not, the fact that there was a bunch of news about the Bills' lack of a lease, coupled with the news of approval for the Rose Bowl to be a temporary home for an NFL team for the next five years, is a bit concerning.

[gebobs]

and maybe these idiots in the front office are being paid by some buyer from out of town to make this team suck. Sounds just as stupid as being major league'd huh?
You're tilting at windmills here. The OP has made it clear that this is wild speculation. I think the point of the whole exercise is that the team is so bloody pitiful that this wild speculation from a few years ago is somewhat more plausible.

[gebobs]

Instead of being major leagued I would say Ralph is being robbed and probably manipulated into overpaying every one of these idiots in the front office. He is too old and feeble to do something about it. Ralph from ten years ago would never put up with this garbage.
When has Ralph ever made a commitment to front office competence? The entire history of the franchise is a litany of bungled hires and cheapskate fires.

[BertSquirtgum]

The team was better when Ralph wasn't pissing his pants 5 times a day.

[Mr. Pink]

Major leagued or not, the fact that there was a bunch of news about the Bills' lack of a lease, coupled with the news of approval for the Rose Bowl to be a temporary home for an NFL team for the next five years, is a bit concerning.

I still think the Chargers moving back to LA makes the most sense, logistically. Plus they have all sorts of issues with their stadium and fan base.

This isn't to say that we won't be moved at some point, considering the fact the lack of lease is kind of concerning, but I don't think the plan to move the Bills is within the next couple of years.

If the goal was to devalue the franchise, you wouldn't go out and sign guys like Mario Williams, extend Stevie to big money, extend Fitz last year to average starting QB money. You'd run the organization as bare bones as possible with contracts that are short so the players can be jettisoned quickly with no salary cap implications and then big buy out implications. Draft picks are draft picks, you're kind of stuck there but free agents would be low tier to high risk short contract guys. And you'd let guys like Stevie either walk or trade them for future draft picks and/or guys with short contracts.

Devaluing the franchise is ludicrous to think because bringing in big name guys excites the fan base, gets them to buy tickets, gets them to buy merchandise, gets people to watch them on TV, etc...all those things make the franchise worth more. In fact I think the Bills are worth more now than 5 years ago when people first started thinking the major league'd approach.

[gebobs]

The team was better when Ralph wasn't pissing his pants 5 times a day.
Obviously, you became a fan after the 80's.

[BertSquirtgum]

Obviously, you became a fan after the 80's.

89 was the first year.

[gebobs]

I still think the Chargers moving back to LA
Wow...I did not know that!

[gebobs]

89 was the first year.
That's what I thought. Before then, the Bills were just as frustratingly incompetent as they are now. The 90's were, unfortunately, an aberration.

[OpIv37]

I still think the Chargers moving back to LA makes the most sense, logistically. Plus they have all sorts of issues with their stadium and fan base.

This isn't to say that we won't be moved at some point, considering the fact the lack of lease is kind of concerning, but I don't think the plan to move the Bills is within the next couple of years.

If the goal was to devalue the franchise, you wouldn't go out and sign guys like Mario Williams, extend Stevie to big money, extend Fitz last year to average starting QB money. You'd run the organization as bare bones as possible with contracts that are short so the players can be jettisoned quickly with no salary cap implications and then big buy out implications. Draft picks are draft picks, you're kind of stuck there but free agents would be low tier to high risk short contract guys. And you'd let guys like Stevie either walk or trade them for future draft picks and/or guys with short contracts.

Devaluing the franchise is ludicrous to think because bringing in big name guys excites the fan base, gets them to buy tickets, gets them to buy merchandise, gets people to watch them on TV, etc...all those things make the franchise worth more. In fact I think the Bills are worth more now than 5 years ago when people first started thinking the major league'd approach.

But that's exactly how the Bills operated for at least the previous 5 years prior to the recent signings you mentioned.

[Mr. Pink]

Wow...I did not know that!

Yeah, in 1960 when the AFL formed they were the LA Chargers and played in LA before moving the next year to San Diego.

Apparently even 2 teams in LA was a bad idea back in 1960.

[Typ0]

maybe its being devalued so someone local can afford it


ever thought of that angle if your thinking like this

But the opposite is true. They are being devalued in this market so they are less attractive in this market. In other markets they then become more attractive. So your argument is pretty bad if you think about it.

I don't necessarily believe the team is being puposefully devalued. However, what is happening is they have become ultra conservative in the way they do business...and then they throw around selfish power trips that disrespect people in the organization and end up making the culture unattractive. It's a function of an aging owner and the knowledge the team will be selling in the near future. It's sad but the writing has been on the wall for the last 15 years people have just failed to see it.

[imbondz]

if Wilson had an integrity, and truly cared about us fans, he'd sell the team while he was alive to ensure it stays in Buffalo, if it's true his family doesn't want ownership

[coastal]

if Wilson had an integrity, and truly cared about us fans, he'd sell the team while he was alive to ensure it stays in Buffalo, if it's true his family doesn't want ownership
But then he'd have to pay capital gains and estate tax.

[Typ0]

if Wilson had an integrity, and truly cared about us fans, he'd sell the team while he was alive to ensure it stays in Buffalo, if it's true his family doesn't want ownership

You would call that integrity? Why? Because you are a fan. It's selfish. If he has integrity he cares about his family and takes care of them not the fans. Wilson doesn't have some magic responsibility to society LOL. Granted if he can do both he should! We will see..

[gebobs]

if Wilson had an integrity, and truly cared about us fans, he'd sell the team while he was alive to ensure it stays in Buffalo, if it's true his family doesn't want ownership
It's still my fantasy that his will gives the team to the citizens of Buffalo and the fans of the team. In recognition of the most awesomest fans in football, the NFL grants the Bills special rights allowing public ownership, completely distinct from the rights of the Packers. The resulting sale of shares in the franchise nets a couple billion dollars of which just $10 million are given to the Wilson family.

In recognition of his commitment to Buffalo and the franchise, and in forgiveness for his legacy as a lousy owner, the new stadium - built with funds from the sale of shares and non-compensatory investments by a grateful NFL Board of governors, NY state, and the federal government (its coffers aswell with surplus following a spectacular economic recovery) - is named after him in perpetuity and a 300 ton marble bust of his bald melon is erected and plopped on top of the McKinley Monument.

The team is represented at NFL meetings by Jim Kelly who assumes the role of president-for-life. His rule is marked by success unforeseen ever before in the the league or any other professional sport. After the Bills win their 7th title in a row, the earth's axis tilts by 17 degrees, the Lakefront becomes the new Riviera and Miami is plunged into perpetual frost.

The following year, Gillette Stadium and the MetLife Stadium are wiped out by Hurricane Ralph. With season ticket sales flagging in both cities after years mired behind the Bills, both teams opt not to rebuild. The Patriots relocate to Ottawa and the Jets to Troy, NY (where they share a 70,000 seat stadium with NCAA D-I champs Rensselaer).

The Era of Good Feeling spreads out of WNY and infects the nation and the world. Peace finally comes to the Middle East and General Motors announces that it will finally release the water-powered car it has kept under wraps for decades. Scientists at Guinness win the Nobel Prize for developing a beer that actually does make girls pretty.

[Typ0]

Is the car powered by sea water or lake water?

[BertSquirtgum]

It's still my fantasy that his will gives the team to the citizens of Buffalo and the fans of the team. In recognition of the most awesomest fans in football, the NFL grants the Bills special rights allowing public ownership, completely distinct from the rights of the Packers. The resulting sale of shares in the franchise nets a couple billion dollars of which just $10 million are given to the Wilson family.

In recognition of his commitment to Buffalo and the franchise, and in forgiveness for his legacy as a lousy owner, the new stadium - built with funds from the sale of shares and non-compensatory investments by a grateful NFL Board of governors, NY state, and the federal government (its coffers aswell with surplus following a spectacular economic recovery) - is named after him in perpetuity and a 300 ton marble bust of his bald melon is erected and plopped on top of the McKinley Monument.

The team is represented at NFL meetings by Jim Kelly who assumes the role of president-for-life. His rule is marked by success unforeseen ever before in the the league or any other professional sport. After the Bills win their 7th title in a row, the earth's axis tilts by 17 degrees, the Lakefront becomes the new Riviera and Miami is plunged into perpetual frost.

The following year, Gillette Stadium and the MetLife Stadium are wiped out by Hurricane Ralph. With season ticket sales flagging in both cities after years mired behind the Bills, both teams opt not to rebuild. The Patriots relocate to Ottawa and the Jets to Troy, NY (where they share a 70,000 seat stadium with NCAA D-I champs Rensselaer).

The Era of Good Feeling spreads out of WNY and infects the nation and the world. Peace finally comes to the Middle East and General Motors announces that it will finally release the water-powered car it has kept under wraps for decades. Scientists at Guinness win the Nobel Prize for developing a beer that actually does make girls pretty.

I'll have some of what you been taking.

[gebobs]

Is the car powered by sea water or lake water?
Coors Light

[Typ0]

Coors Light

at least there will be a use for that garbage.

[YardRat]

A complete lack of the Boss being around the buildings and in the offices on a daily basis doesn't help. I've probably been as big of a Ralph apologist as anybody, but have to admit after the last 13 seasons I agree with whoever stated the best thing he could do for the fans is bite the bullet and sell the team while still alive and hope it cements the organization's place in WNY.

[Pride]

Let's talk specifics here... specific examples of how a team is being Major Leagued. First, start by excluding any player involvement such as dropped passes, missed tackles or interceptions thrown. Those are too hard to judge whether or not it was intentional and we have to hope that whatever may be happening, the players are not involved (because players are generally stupid and it would leak).

That said, I can think of 2 recent times when one would think they are being Major Leagued. First, the non-hiring of Fewell. After a string of bad coaching decisions, many of which may have been directly chosen based on their lack of experience or success at the NFL level, Perry Fewell was not hired to take over for a terminated Dick Jauron. A stout defense was once again thrown to the wolves as an offensive minded "genius" was led to the helm.

The second, i am starting to believe, occurred last season. Is it any wonder that the Buffalo Bills, with the best start to the season in how many years all of a sudden lost 7 straight? And as Stevie Johnson let on yesterday, it sounds as if the playcalling during the first half of last season was NOT always coming in from the sideline, but rather called in the huddle or audibled at the line of scrimmage. Now, this year, according to SJ, they haven't done any of that. So I ask you, why change the system that was working and had gotten you to a VERY good record in the first half of the 2011 season, and yet not revert back to it when you are losing 7 in a row, and start the 2012 campaign off with a losing record.

On top of all of that... why, if Fitz was hurt, not put in our backup quarterback? Is it possible that leaving Fitz in gave the organization an excuse to why they tanked the season?

If it were ever to come to light that the Bills have been Major Leagued for the last decade, I have a feeling Ralph Wilson stadium, and the management team would be set on fire.

[ServoBillieves]

I've said it for years. I've been as optimistic as the rest about the teams moves but the crushing blows Sunday after Sunday makes the diehard in me slowly leave. If that's what the organization wants us to do (and, for those who don't know me, I've never known the glory years, I've only known failure) then they're doing a great damn job of it.

This week leads up to the "who can leave?!" bowl. Jacksonville vs. Buffalo.

[Typ0]

I still think the Chargers moving back to LA makes the most sense, logistically. Plus they have all sorts of issues with their stadium and fan base.

This isn't to say that we won't be moved at some point, considering the fact the lack of lease is kind of concerning, but I don't think the plan to move the Bills is within the next couple of years.

If the goal was to devalue the franchise, you wouldn't go out and sign guys like Mario Williams, extend Stevie to big money, extend Fitz last year to average starting QB money. You'd run the organization as bare bones as possible with contracts that are short so the players can be jettisoned quickly with no salary cap implications and then big buy out implications. Draft picks are draft picks, you're kind of stuck there but free agents would be low tier to high risk short contract guys. And you'd let guys like Stevie either walk or trade them for future draft picks and/or guys with short contracts.

Devaluing the franchise is ludicrous to think because bringing in big name guys excites the fan base, gets them to buy tickets, gets them to buy merchandise, gets people to watch them on TV, etc...all those things make the franchise worth more. In fact I think the Bills are worth more now than 5 years ago when people first started thinking the major league'd approach.

But the arguement they need to make is to the NFL that a franchise is not viable in the Buffalo market so they are willing to part with the market in favor of one that will potentially make more $$$$ but has failed in the past. That is what the management team is trying to make possible. The NFL is taking a big risk moving this team as they are a cash cow and established in a fashion those revenues are not going anywhere. This isn't going to be another Clevelend there just aren't any plans for expansion teams.

Another element you fail to mention is the actual ###s on these expenditures are supplemented under the current revenue sharing. I am not sure how all this works but it's perfectly possible they actually make money by purchasing those players. Then they can turn around and say "you can't say we didn't try" to the NFL. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist I truly do and like to think like a team player. Unfortunately, one of the important components of team play is identifying team weaknesses that can't be overcome and not getting blindsided by them. The writing is on the wall. Any way you slice it this franchise is in a much higher degree of jeopardy in WNY than people are willing to look at...because they are too afraid to look.

[mjt328]

We've had a lot of different approaches to fixing the team, but they all have made the same basic mistakes.
Starting at the top, we've had a handful of GMs (Donahoe, Levy, Brandon, Nix).
- All of them did a poor job of finding a good coach.
- All of them did a poor job of finding a quarterback.
- All of them did a poor job of building depth through the draft.


In my opinion, Donahoe did the best job of the group. Some of his "slam dunk" personnel decisions (the trade for Bledsoe, drafting Mike Williams) really should have worked out. It was bad luck that they didn't.
He really did a good job at bringing in free agent talent. But he just couldn't do the same with the draft, and that ultimately killed us in the salary cap. Once he failed with his second coach and failed by drafting Losman - it was time to move on.

People seem to like Nix because of his approach (build through the draft, take BPA, focus on the lines first) - but he's made the same mistakes as all the previous GMs. His hiring of Chan was uninspired. He's gone three years without upgrading the QB position. And most of his draft picks have been busts.

[SABURZFAN]

There's evidence that Ralph is dying, and his family has been very open about the fact that they don't want to own the team after he passes. So, nature is going to force a change of ownership sooner or later (most likely sooner) regardless if anyone is interested.

The groups building the stadiums in LA have said the Bills are on the list of teams they are targeting.


**** that old piece of ****....

[The Jokeman]

It's still my fantasy that his will gives the team to the citizens of Buffalo and the fans of the team. In recognition of the most awesomest fans in football, the NFL grants the Bills special rights allowing public ownership, completely distinct from the rights of the Packers. The resulting sale of shares in the franchise nets a couple billion dollars of which just $10 million are given to the Wilson family.

In recognition of his commitment to Buffalo and the franchise, and in forgiveness for his legacy as a lousy owner, the new stadium - built with funds from the sale of shares and non-compensatory investments by a grateful NFL Board of governors, NY state, and the federal government (its coffers aswell with surplus following a spectacular economic recovery) - is named after him in perpetuity and a 300 ton marble bust of his bald melon is erected and plopped on top of the McKinley Monument.

The team is represented at NFL meetings by Jim Kelly who assumes the role of president-for-life. His rule is marked by success unforeseen ever before in the the league or any other professional sport. After the Bills win their 7th title in a row, the earth's axis tilts by 17 degrees, the Lakefront becomes the new Riviera and Miami is plunged into perpetual frost.

The following year, Gillette Stadium and the MetLife Stadium are wiped out by Hurricane Ralph. With season ticket sales flagging in both cities after years mired behind the Bills, both teams opt not to rebuild. The Patriots relocate to Ottawa and the Jets to Troy, NY (where they share a 70,000 seat stadium with NCAA D-I champs Rensselaer).

The Era of Good Feeling spreads out of WNY and infects the nation and the world. Peace finally comes to the Middle East and General Motors announces that it will finally release the water-powered car it has kept under wraps for decades. Scientists at Guinness win the Nobel Prize for developing a beer that actually does make girls pretty.

Say No to Jim Kelly ownership, the guy couldn't even run a bar and grill I don't want him being a priority owner of my favorite football team. Hell he also did wonders with his management team with Michael Vick and that pyramid scheme he used to do commercials for. I know people love to glow on Kelly but the truth is he is not a great owner. If anything we better hope for Tom Galisano and hope he uses his deep pockets to revamp this entire organization.

[more cowbell]

That would be me sir. The second Russ Brandon entered the picture, I have been convinced he is the one in charge of the "Major League Operation"




A few years back, someone on this site brought up the idea that we are being Major League'd -ie, the team is being intentionally run into the ground to devalue it and make it easier to move (I'd give credit but I can't remember who it was).

At first I thought the idea was interesting, but not necessarily true. Now, it seems to be the only possible explanation.

13 years with no playoffs. Over that time period, we've had 5 different coaches: Phillips, Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey. We've had 4 different GM's: Donahoe, Brandon, Levy, Nix. We've had a bunch of different starting QB's: Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman, Holcomb, Edwards, Fitzpatrick.... and no matter what the combination was, the results were the same. Only one winning season in 13 years, no playoffs.

This was the year things were supposed to be different. We went out and got a high priced FA in Mario Williams, we re-signed Stevie and Fred Jackson, whereas in the past players like that would have been allowed to walk. Yet, the results are the same.

How is this possible by accident or random chance? You could intentionally try to do things wrong and still not be this bad.

The Bills have certainly weakened their bargaining position with the county/state on a stadium deal with this poor play, and it won't get any better now that we are about to start seeing blackouts. It makes it easier for the team to say "well we couldn't get what we wanted from the local governments so we were forced to move on." And with the exception of Mario Williams, they have consistently kept payroll costs low and definitely control other costs like coaching and FO personnel... that makes the purchase of the team easier.

Yeah, I know, it's a borderline conspiracy theory and it sounds a bit crazy, but is it really that much crazier than "we really are just THAT incompetent"?

[Mike]

A few years back, someone on this site brought up the idea that we are being Major League'd -ie, the team is being intentionally run into the ground to devalue it and make it easier to move (I'd give credit but I can't remember who it was).

At first I thought the idea was interesting, but not necessarily true. Now, it seems to be the only possible explanation.

13 years with no playoffs. Over that time period, we've had 5 different coaches: Phillips, Williams, Mularkey, Jauron, Gailey. We've had 4 different GM's: Donahoe, Brandon, Levy, Nix. We've had a bunch of different starting QB's: Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman, Holcomb, Edwards, Fitzpatrick.... and no matter what the combination was, the results were the same. Only one winning season in 13 years, no playoffs.

This was the year things were supposed to be different. We went out and got a high priced FA in Mario Williams, we re-signed Stevie and Fred Jackson, whereas in the past players like that would have been allowed to walk. Yet, the results are the same.

How is this possible by accident or random chance? You could intentionally try to do things wrong and still not be this bad.

The Bills have certainly weakened their bargaining position with the county/state on a stadium deal with this poor play, and it won't get any better now that we are about to start seeing blackouts. It makes it easier for the team to say "well we couldn't get what we wanted from the local governments so we were forced to move on." And with the exception of Mario Williams, they have consistently kept payroll costs low and definitely control other costs like coaching and FO personnel... that makes the purchase of the team easier.

Yeah, I know, it's a borderline conspiracy theory and it sounds a bit crazy, but is it really that much crazier than "we really are just THAT incompetent"?

I am sure I was not the only one mentioning it. The decisions made at the Top FO level were awful however the Bills marketing is top notch. Further, until the new CBA the Bills were making more money than at least half the league -partially because cheap payroll and mostly because profit sharing. Now with a salary floor things might change a little.

Anyways, the idea to me seemed like this: The Goal of the Organization was to make MONEY!

1. Pure and simple and the most effective way to do this was to keep costs -payroll- down. Thus poor FO, coaches, players, etc....
2. Most of the revenue was generated via profit sharing and TV rights so winning did not mean loosing money.
3. Further, the Bills employed a great marketing strategy -selling hope- which further added to the bottom line via sell outs.

Should the Team Move: Build In Excuses:
1. If the Bills did not sell out during this time they could use that as an excuse on why they left Western New York
2. If they sell out, they could argue that even this was not enough (They are actually doing this now. This is the argument for why a new stadium needs to be built)

Bills Organization's Real Goals & Long Term Objective:
1. Make as much money as possible before R. Wilson passes away (FYI Business are valued in a number of ways, Cash Flow being the most used. The more a business cash flows the more its worth to a buyer).
2. Limit Long Term Liabilities: Players signed to big contracts could be viewed as a liability by a potential new owner. The exception of course is a top DE, QB, LT. Thus a team will want to use a cap to cash philosophy to minimize long term liabilities or have flexible contracts.
3. Mobility: A team that is Relocatable will be worth a lot more than a team that is tied to a small market via a 20 or 30 year lease.

* This seems like the most logical decision an old Billionaire could make when it comes to eventually selling his business. You want to maximize the sell price and all of the above elements play a key role in this. Its kind of interesting thought, that Ralph Wilson on one end wants to both maximize sell price and leave a great legacy behind which highly probable. If the team is sold and relocated after his death his family will greatly benefit from sale and he will be remember as a great man...

[Mike]

ALSO...

This is NOT a Conspiracy to Move the Team.... No All this is is Maximization of Sales Price. Once the Team is put up for sale, you want the New Ownership to pay top dollar which means that they can do with the team as they wish including leaving it in Buffalo!

[Mike]

The issue here is the Mario contract

If this team was truly being major league'd no way they hand out that kind of contract.

Generally, I would be inclined to agree with you, however this case bears a few distictions:

1. The contract is quite great. Front loaded bonuses and money with a team option on the back end. By the time a new owner buys the team, most -if not all- of Mario's Bonus money will have been paid making him a very affordable player for new owners.
2. DE is a marque positions. In certain cases, a team with a top player at a marque position will be more attractive for new owners than the same team without the said player. I think there are only a few such positions: QB, DE, LT... What you don't want is a team full of overpaid over the hill players...
3. New CBA has a salary floor so no matter what by the time the Bills are for sale this sort of money will get spent on someone....

[Mike]

I still think the Chargers moving back to LA makes the most sense, logistically. Plus they have all sorts of issues with their stadium and fan base.

WILD SPECULATION...Remember that as you try to read... This is not about the Bills moving but about increasing the Sales price of the Bills Teams which might then be moved by investors.

This isn't to say that we won't be moved at some point, considering the fact the lack of lease is kind of concerning, but I don't think the plan to move the Bills is within the next couple of years.

Lease expires in 2012. Plus Ralph Wilson Stadium is one of the oldest, run down, stadiums in the NFL.

If the goal was to devalue the franchise,

What Planet are you living ON and why do you think the Bills are devaluing the franchise???

you wouldn't go out and sign guys like Mario Williams, extend Stevie to big money, extend Fitz last year to average starting QB money.
I addressed this question with another poster... (you are aware of the new CBA???)

You'd run the organization as bare bones as possible with contracts that are short so the players can be jettisoned quickly with no salary cap implications and then big buy out implications. Draft picks are draft picks, you're kind of stuck there but free agents would be low tier to high risk short contract guys. And you'd let guys like Stevie either walk or trade them for future draft picks and/or guys with short contracts.

Devaluing the franchise is ludicrous to think because bringing in big name guys excites the fan base, gets them to buy tickets, gets them to buy merchandise, gets people to watch them on TV, etc...all those things make the franchise worth more. In fact I think the Bills are worth more now than 5 years ago when people first started thinking the major league'd approach.

Obviously you have no idea how business works!!!
You bring up all of the new contracts which occurred very recently. With the new CBA there will be a Salary Cap Floor which means team will have to spend some money.
Why????
Because teams like the BILLS have been abusing the system for years. In fact, over the past decade the Bills NOI was top 10 in the NFL!!! During this time, the Bills did what any great business would do, they made money! They kept costs down, way down, while selling hope to fans and profiting from TV rights the Bills were 9th in Profit. They made more money than the Jets, Dolphins, and even the SuperBowl Champs Green Bay Packers!!! So no, they did no devalue their team, they increased the teams value by making it more profitable.

More Profit = Higher Selling Price

http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/134157/37/Forbes-Bills-Among-NFLs-Most-Profitable-Teams

[Historian]

Say No to Jim Kelly ownership, the guy couldn't even run a bar and grill I don't want him being a priority owner of my favorite football team. Hell he also did wonders with his management team with Michael Vick and that pyramid scheme he used to do commercials for. I know people love to glow on Kelly but the truth is he is not a great owner. If anything we better hope for Tom Galisano and hope he uses his deep pockets to revamp this entire organization.

I'm glad somebody said it.

[OpIv37]

Say No to Jim Kelly ownership, the guy couldn't even run a bar and grill I don't want him being a priority owner of my favorite football team. Hell he also did wonders with his management team with Michael Vick and that pyramid scheme he used to do commercials for. I know people love to glow on Kelly but the truth is he is not a great owner. If anything we better hope for Tom Galisano and hope he uses his deep pockets to revamp this entire organization.

Golisano? Really? Did you follow the Sabres at all when he was the owner? He let Briere and Drury walk at the same time and was then forced to sign Vanek to an overvalued contract- that two week sequence of events was a microcosm for his entire ownership: do everything as cheaply as possible until you are forced to spend money on something that's not worth what you pay for it. He wouldn't be any better than Ralph.

As far as Kelly ownership, I tend to agree, but the reality is that the NFL requires a majority owner to hold 51% of the team and Kelly doesn't have anywhere close to that kind of money. If anything, he'd be a minority partner, and I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly as a minority partner with his hands in the football side but off of the business side. It's embarrassing to admit this, but he still is the face of the franchise despite not taking a snap in 15 years.

[Typ0]

ALSO...

This is NOT a Conspiracy to Move the Team.... No All this is is Maximization of Sales Price. Once the Team is put up for sale, you want the New Ownership to pay top dollar which means that they can do with the team as they wish including leaving it in Buffalo!

you have a lot of things right but are missing the point. Top dollar sales price does mean the highest projected future cash flows. That is going to come from another market...which is why someone from another market is going to be offering the highest $$$ for the team. But that owner needs NFL approval to purchase and move the team. In order for OBD to acquire the highest price for the sale of the team they need to position it in a way that incents the NFL to make this approval. So maybe it feels like a conspiracy to us but it's really just a decent way for a manager to do business...because a managers job is to maximize shareholder wealth.

[gebobs]

Say No to Jim Kelly ownership, the guy couldn't even run a bar and grill I don't want him being a priority owner of my favorite football team.
So you're telling me GM won't unveil the water-fueled car and the Lakeshore won't be sprouting palm trees? How disappointing.

[Mr. Pink]

Mike, you simply don't get it. It's much easier to move an NFL franchise AND get the other 31 owners on board with it if you can show the franchise is no longer economically viable where it is presently.

You'd do things to drive attendance down. You'd do things to drive merch sales down. You'd do things so the next prospective owner isn't stuck under the contracts of guys like...Fitzpatrick.

All of the above in turn devalues the franchise and shows it's no longer viable where it is presently and makes it easier for the NFL and the rest of the owners agree that moving the franchise is in the best interests of the brand.

[OpIv37]

Well attendance will definitely be down for the last few games. I haven't seen any numbers on merch sales, but I can't imagine they are up after yet another cluster**** of a season. And there is a cap floor in the CBA so they have to give a contract to someone- if you want to drive down merch sales and attendance, why not give it to Fitz?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

The only problem with this theory is that it suggests the ability of the "brain" trust at OBD is capable of long term planning. This fundamental flaw is evident if you just look at the product they put out on the field to torture us with. I still contend that we have been experiencing Weekend At Bernie's since 2000 and that Ralph is kept embalmed and hauled out every time a public appearance is needed.

[Bert102176]

am not sure if I said it first but I have said this a few times starting a few years back, and after not when but after we lose the Bills I will say FU NFL and will never watch another game and I will go to Detroit and piss on RW grave after he passes

[OpIv37]

The only problem with this theory is that it suggests the ability of the "brain" trust at OBD is capable of long term planning. This fundamental flaw is evident if you just look at the product they put out on the field to torture us with. I still contend that we have been experiencing Weekend At Bernie's since 2000 and that Ralph is kept embalmed and hauled out every time a public appearance is needed.

I've made that same Weekend at Bernie's joke before....

Here's the problem, though: the Bills aren't nearly as incompetent as we think. Oh, they are incompetent at football, that's for damn sure. But, they are profitable. They manage to get us to pay for inferior goods year in and year out. Brandon is a marketing genius who has found ways to keep fans interested and the team profitable during a dismal stretch of football. If the criteria for judging is profit and setting up Ralph's family after he croaks rather than winning football games, suddenly the Bills organization goes from buffoons to masterminds. My contention here is that they're not incompetent. They appear incompetent because we think they are trying to win football games. In reality, football is just a means to a different end. They don't care if they are winning as long as the fans (read: money-givers) are still interested.

[Mr. Pink]

Well attendance will definitely be down for the last few games. I haven't seen any numbers on merch sales, but I can't imagine they are up after yet another cluster**** of a season. And there is a cap floor in the CBA so they have to give a contract to someone- if you want to drive down merch sales and attendance, why not give it to Fitz?

You can reach the cap floor by offering a lot of 1 and 2 year deals that the next prospective owner isn't saddled with in the long term.

We've had issues selling out late season games since at least the 90s. Heck "The Greatest Comeback in NFL History" wasn't even a sell out. Heard on GR this morning that in the 2000s we actually sold out more of the late season games than in the 90s by like 4%, so likely a game or two more. Could have been a lie but I'm sure the numbers could easily be located online. The point was used to combat the "If the team was better, more people would show up late in the year" idea.

Merchandise I'm sure is up this year. Spiller's emergence coupled with bringing in Mario makes that seem like a legitimate conclusion.

[OpIv37]

You can reach the cap floor by offering a lot of 1 and 2 year deals that the next prospective owner isn't saddled with in the long term.

We've had issues selling out late season games since at least the 90s. Heck "The Greatest Comeback in NFL History" wasn't even a sell out. Heard on GR this morning that in the 2000s we actually sold out more of the late season games than in the 90s by like 4%, so likely a game or two more. Could have been a lie but I'm sure the numbers could easily be located online. The point was used to combat the "If the team was better, more people would show up late in the year" idea.

Merchandise I'm sure is up this year. Spiller's emergence coupled with bringing in Mario makes that seem like a legitimate conclusion.

Two things: in the early 90's, the Ralph seated over 80,000. After the renovation, it seated just under 74,000 for most of the 2000's and just over 73,000 from 2008 on. So, the numbers are skewed because the early 90's teams had to sell 6-7k more tickets.

Second, if you remember, the Comeback Game was a playoff game against Houston. By coincidence, we played Houston the last week of the regular season and the game had playoff implications for each side. The Bills got whooped- I think the final was 20-3 or something in that range. So, the reason that game didn't sell out was because of a) the extra seating capacity at the time and b) the fact that we got whooped by the same team just a few days earlier.

[The Jokeman]

Golisano? Really? Did you follow the Sabres at all when he was the owner? He let Briere and Drury walk at the same time and was then forced to sign Vanek to an overvalued contract- that two week sequence of events was a microcosm for his entire ownership: do everything as cheaply as possible until you are forced to spend money on something that's not worth what you pay for it. He wouldn't be any better than Ralph.

As far as Kelly ownership, I tend to agree, but the reality is that the NFL requires a majority owner to hold 51% of the team and Kelly doesn't have anywhere close to that kind of money. If anything, he'd be a minority partner, and I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly as a minority partner with his hands in the football side but off of the business side. It's embarrassing to admit this, but he still is the face of the franchise despite not taking a snap in 15 years.

I hate to steal from someone else but it's said pretty well in this article: http://www.buffalowins.com/year-in-review-end-of-the-golisano-era.html


A lot of NHL owners have come and gone during Golisano's tenure, and quite a few of them left their teams in near-irreparable financial ruin. Tom Golisano, on the other hand, did the opposite: he saved the Sabres after they became a bankrupt trainwreck at the hands of the Rigas family and turned them into a well-run, profitable organization. He rejected inquiries from potential buyers (some guy named Balsillie, maybe you've heard of him) that would have sought to move the franchise elsewhere. And in selling to a man he knew could take the team to heights he did not have the passion to take them, he showed he knew when was the proper time to get out.

I'm fond of saying that I have no regrets, because everything that I've ever done and everything that has ever happened to me has led me to where I am right now. Likewise, if not for the efforts of Tom Golisano the franchise would not be in Terry Pegula's capable hands in the good shape it's in. It is for this reason that I choose to remember the good that Golisano has done instead of the failures, both on and off the ice, that happened during his time. The team is in a better place now, and the future is even brighter. For that, I tip my hat to Tom Golisano.

Also under Golisano the Sabres drafts were better in part because he made the franchise change how it scouted talent and appears for the better, which to me is one of my biggest pet peeves with the Bills.

[OpIv37]

Well the Bills are profitable and financially stable now. If you bring in Golisano, it's status quo.

[TrEd FTW]

Golisano did a fine job atop the Sabres. Hockey was never his passion, so of course he wasn't going to pour all his resources into it. He was a stopgap owner whose goal was get the franchise back on its feet and eventually sell to someone who would keep the team in Buffalo. He did it, and his short reign included two final four appearances, two division titles and a Presidents' Trophy. The Sabres could've done a hell of a lot worse.

If he's a football fan (I don't know if he is), he'd probably make a good Bills owner.

[gebobs]

Golisano did a fine job atop the Sabres.
He did, but not to his credit at all. They lucked out with some diamonds in the rough with Drury and Briere and a hot rookie goalie that really crested together. The Sabres would have won against the Senators for sure if they had beefed up the blue line. It was thin and boy did that thin show. Golisano was better than previous owners, but he kept Regier on a pretty tight leash nonetheless.

[Typ0]

The only problem with this theory is that it suggests the ability of the "brain" trust at OBD is capable of long term planning. This fundamental flaw is evident if you just look at the product they put out on the field to torture us with. I still contend that we have been experiencing Weekend At Bernie's since 2000 and that Ralph is kept embalmed and hauled out every time a public appearance is needed.


Not really. If you do financial planning you see what happens to a persons finances as they age. They become more conservative and make less risky investments. They don't have time left to enjoy higher returns that take longer due to higher risks. So they go for lower returns but security in having those returns in their old age secure. The same type of activity has happened at OBD. HMMMMMMM....

[BertSquirtgum]

I would rather have the Jeremy Jacobs buy the Bills.

[gebobs]

I would rather have the Jeremy Jacobs buy the Bills.
Yeah cuz he's always done so much for Buffalo. /sarcasm off/

[gebobs]

Not really. If you do financial planning you see what happens to a persons finances as they age. They become more conservative and make less risky investments. They don't have time left to enjoy higher returns that take longer due to higher risks. So they go for lower returns but security in having those returns in their old age secure. The same type of activity has happened at OBD. HMMMMMMM....Yep...I'm sure Ralph manages his finances like a middle-level manager with three kids approaching college. ;-)