Just talked with a source about Gailey's future and QB in draft

[T-Long]

Just talked with a source within the NFL and he told me that he doesn't think Gailey keeps his job following the season and has heard that the Bills are high on Arkansas QB Tyler Wilson.

[Demon]

Sounds like BS. Who's high on Tyler Wilson? Gailey? Or the next football coach? If Gailey is let go, probably so will Nix. Many of the scouts and most of the coaches will be donzo. Yet, their "high" on Wilson? Yawn.

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't think Buddy will be fired if he has the balls to fire Gailey.

[Slim]

Obviously you trust him/her quite a bit to post this, how connected would you consider this source T-long?

[Slim]

On a separate note, Wilson is projected to go in the mid-first round. Right around where we should be picking.

[TigerJ]

That's interesting. If true, it's a bit surprising actually. I don't expect Nix is on a hotseat, but I really didn't think Gailey was either.

[T-Long]

This is a very trusted source....I don't have many these days now that I have 3 kids and barely have time to go to the bathroom myself. But I 100% trust this guy...he is very well connected, especially with the Bills.

He is under the impression that Nix stays but Gailey will go barring a 4-1 or 5-0 finish. Ralph trusts Nix but also knows how bad for business keeping Gailey will be.

I personally thought both would be back, but I guess we will wait and see.

[DraftBoy]

Can't comment on the Gailey thing, but...Wilson is a VERY highly though of QB prospect among NFL eval guys, fans have him under rated. No doubt Bills are interested, expect him to be a Bills visitor at OBD without a doubt.

[Slim]

I hope he's right. Getting a new coach and a new QB are two biggest steps in turning the ship around.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

For short term gain, even possibly going to the playoff next year, you keep Gailey. For long term bigger things, you get a new HC.

Fitz, regardless what Gailey and Nix said this past week, is certainly on the list to be upgraded. I don't know why fans/wgr hosts are so up in arms about having to hear Gailey/Nix to make any statement about Fitz NOW. If you are people management business, and just cannot act like a fan and throw emotion left and right.

If I'm Nix, I'd have to line up candidates before I fire Gailey. And I'd prefer minimum philosophical changes both offensively or defensively.

[Slim]

Can't comment on the Gailey thing, but...Wilson is a VERY highly though of QB prospect among NFL eval guys, fans have him under rated. No doubt Bills are interested, expect him to be a Bills visitor at OBD without a doubt.

You could he could could just into the top 7-8 picks? Lots of teams need QB's and after Geno there is not clear cut "leader" among the rest of the QB's to be the 2nd QB picked.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I still don't believe you reach for a QB. Just remember picking a wrong guy is worse than not picking one.

I really believe Nix went the safe route not picking a development QB, and I believe it's about to change this time around. But if there is a almost sure fire MLB in the 1st round that can transform this defense into a stingy, top 5 one, you have to go this route.

[DraftBoy]

You could he could could just into the top 7-8 picks? Lots of teams need QB's and after Geno there is not clear cut "leader" among the rest of the QB's to be the 2nd QB picked.

Yes I could.

[BertSquirtgum]

For short term gain, even possibly going to the playoff next year, you keep Gailey. For long term bigger things, you get a new HC.

Fitz, regardless what Gailey and Nix said this past week, is certainly on the list to be upgraded. I don't know why fans/wgr hosts are so up in arms about having to hear Gailey/Nix to make any statement about Fitz NOW. If you are people management business, and just cannot act like a fan and throw emotion left and right.

If I'm Nix, I'd have to line up candidates before I fire Gailey. And I'd prefer minimum philosophical changes both offensively or defensively.

What the hell makes you think Gailey can get this team to make the playoffs next year?

[ServoBillieves]

At this point, whatever.

[tampabay25690]

T-Long I trust what you say. You are one of the few I actually do.
Makes a ton of sense in my book. I can't see how the Bills will keep Gailey after this season.
The interesting thing will be who is the next coach?

I really like Tyler Wilson a lot, I think the Arkansas situation was just a mess this year. They were a top 10 team going in. The I'd can throw the rock no doubt and I luv his attitude..... Sort of Cutler like....

[kishoph]

T-Long I trust what you say. You are one of the few I actually do.
Makes a ton of sense in my book. I can't see how the Bills will keep Gailey after this season.
The interesting thing will be who is the next coach?

I really like Tyler Wilson a lot, I think the Arkansas situation was just a mess this year. They were a top 10 team going in. The I'd can throw the rock no doubt and I luv his attitude..... Sort of Cutler like....

I was just about to post just about everything you've said. I've know T-Long a long time and while he's no Pat Moran (j/k), I've never known him to post BS and it all does make sense. Nix has a team that can win, but there's two major flaws, QB and coach. Retaining Gailey would kill a lot of fan support and it goes the same for Fitz.
I've been high on Tyler Wilson since the season started, he's big, tough and has a strong arm, he has the physical tools and his faults can be corrected with coaching and patience. Some rankings have him ahead of Barkley and just behind Smith. He will not last to the 2nd round and while a stud LB sounds good, this team needs a QB that can put points on the board, a top 5 or 10 defense doesn't do any good if you can't score, look at Arizona. This is not the 80's you need an offense to win.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Just talked with a source within the NFL and he told me that he doesn't think Gailey keeps his job following the season and has heard that the Bills are high on Arkansas QB Tyler Wilson.
I think Gailey does keep his job as long as Nix keeps his, and I've heard they really like E.J. Manuel of Florida St. I'm not certain that they draft a QB earlier than the 2nd round though. It depends strongly on who they have graded highest regardless of position on their draft board when they pick in the first round. They have been pretty consistent in that respect since Nix took over as GM. JMO

[coastal]

He is under the impression that Nix stays but Gailey will go barring a 4-1 or 5-0 finish. Ralph trusts Nix but also knows how bad for business keeping Gailey will be.
This more than anything screams of being true.

Ralph doesn't approach things in terms of what is good for the football organization.

He also historically only does just enough to keep the horde buying tickets.

and we lap it up... year after year. Just look at this thread. Some are already wondering about our next coach and what QB were going to draft.

Until Bills fans smarten up... we'll get the team we deserve.

[YardRat]

I was just about to post just about everything you've said. I've know T-Long a long time and while he's no Pat Moran (j/k), I've never known him to post BS and it all does make sense. Nix has a team that can win, but there's two major flaws, QB and coach. Retaining Gailey would kill a lot of fan support and it goes the same for Fitz.
I've been high on Tyler Wilson since the season started, he's big, tough and has a strong arm, he has the physical tools and his faults can be corrected with coaching and patience. Some rankings have him ahead of Barkley and just behind Smith. He will not last to the 2nd round and while a stud LB sounds good, this team needs a QB that can put points on the board, a top 5 or 10 defense doesn't do any good if you can't score, look at Arizona. This is not the 80's you need an offense to win.

I'd prefer taking Te'o if he's there then trading back into the first for a QB if necessary.

[notacon]

I still don't believe you reach for a QB. Just remember picking a wrong guy is worse than not picking one.

.

100% nonsense!!!

- - - Updated - - -


For short term gain, even possibly going to the playoff next year, you keep Gailey.

1000% NONSENSE!!!

[Extremebillsfan247]

I still don't believe you reach for a QB. Just remember picking a wrong guy is worse than not picking one.

I really believe Nix went the safe route not picking a development QB, and I believe it's about to change this time around. But if there is a almost sure fire MLB in the 1st round that can transform this defense into a stingy, top 5 one, you have to go this route. Right, and anyone who has paid attention to how this team has drafted the last 3 draft years, knows the Bills wont reach for a QB. I don't think position is really as important to Nix as grade of the prospect in relation to the Bills when drafting. I have yet to see this team draft a first rounder based on need since Gailey and Nix took over. JMO

[SquishDaFish]

You should never draft based on need. You go with the top player on your board regardless IMO. I do want a QB btw

[X-Era]

Just talked with a source within the NFL and he told me that he doesn't think Gailey keeps his job following the season and has heard that the Bills are high on Arkansas QB Tyler Wilson.
I trust you. And I'm not questioning that you heard that. It just doesn't make much sense for Nix to come out as so vehemently defend Chan by saying you cant keep blowing it up, stay the course, etc... And then be planning to fire him.

Why wouldn't Nix just keep quiet on Chan or say they will look at everything in the off-season? Why go so far to extremes to tell everyone that he is staying and that keeping him is the right move for the future?

[better days]

I trust you. And I'm not questioning that you heard that. It just doesn't make much sense for Nix to come out as so vehemently defend Chan by saying you cant keep blowing it up, stay the course, etc... And then be planning to fire him.

Why wouldn't Nix just keep quiet on Chan or say they will look at everything in the off-season? Why go so far to extremes to tell everyone that he is staying and that keeping him is the right move for the future?

The old tried & true vote of confidence. Happens every year to Coaches about to be fired.

[Extremebillsfan247]

I trust you. And I'm not questioning that you heard that. It just doesn't make much sense for Nix to come out as so vehemently defend Chan by saying you cant keep blowing it up, stay the course, etc... And then be planning to fire him.

Why wouldn't Nix just keep quiet on Chan or say they will look at everything in the off-season? Why go so far to extremes to tell everyone that he is staying and that keeping him is the right move for the future? I'll even take this argument a step further, he also defends Gailey's stance on Fitzpatrick pretty heavily every time he comes on WGR550. I don't think Gailey is going anywhere unless the Bills completely fall apart in the last 5 games of the season. I think the Bills front office is pretty serious about staying the course this time around. Gailey could very well be this team's last head coach under Ralph Wilson Jr. JMO

[YardRat]

I trust you. And I'm not questioning that you heard that. It just doesn't make much sense for Nix to come out as so vehemently defend Chan by saying you cant keep blowing it up, stay the course, etc... And then be planning to fire him.

Why wouldn't Nix just keep quiet on Chan or say they will look at everything in the off-season? Why go so far to extremes to tell everyone that he is staying and that keeping him is the right move for the future?

There probably has been an internal ultimatum issued...finish at 8-8 or better, or he's gone. As long as the goal is still attainable, Nix would have to support Gailey until he completely fails.

[Yasgur's Farm]

There probably has been an internal ultimatum issued...finish at 8-8 or better, or he's gone. As long as the goal is still attainable, Nix would have to support Gailey until he completely fails.That's it right there... No matter what NIx has defined as his gauge (palyoffs, 8-8, etc), he's not gonna put himself in the position of being a stumbling block for Gailey until the goal is no longer attainable... ESPECIALLY if they're friends. Hell... Even the playoffs are not out of the question yet!

[Buddo]

There probably has been an internal ultimatum issued...finish at 8-8 or better, or he's gone. As long as the goal is still attainable, Nix would have to support Gailey until he completely fails.

In the context of the OP, this makes the most sense, imho.
I wouldn't rule out Nix making a serious move for a QB, either. Providing he has him graded around where the pick is that he moves to, I think he will be prepared to do it, even if it means giving up a bunch of other picks.
Nix might be somewhat conservative in respect of the draft, and making moves, but as he showed with Mario, if he thinks it is the right move and player, he's not afraid to pull the trigger.
For all that results aren't showing it, I believe that Nix has improved the roster an awful lot in his time here, and if he can hang on to Byrd and Levitre etc. as well, he will be doing pretty much what he said he was going to do.

As regards the coaching situation, I'm still somewhat on the fence. With a better QB, or better QB play, we could possibly have been at 7-4, rather than 4-7. I also am starting to come around to how the D is improving, and I wonder if a coaching change wouldn't necessarily cause too much disruption - unless the new coaches do run similar schemes, more particularly on D.

We don't just need a QB in the draft, we also need a good WR. If Nelson had been healthy, we might have done a bit better, but atm our WR corps is awfully thin, and it still doesn't look too promising, even with Nelson back. I suppose another QB might actually be able to hit Graham down the field, so that might reduce the need somewhat, but it still doesn't look great.

While I think Bradham is coming along nicely, we also still need a better LB in there, who is good in coverage, and CB is also going to be on the list.

[DraftBoy]

I trust you. And I'm not questioning that you heard that. It just doesn't make much sense for Nix to come out as so vehemently defend Chan by saying you cant keep blowing it up, stay the course, etc... And then be planning to fire him.

Why wouldn't Nix just keep quiet on Chan or say they will look at everything in the off-season? Why go so far to extremes to tell everyone that he is staying and that keeping him is the right move for the future?

Nix stays silent the rumors start flying weeks ago and every day is a distraction. Him remaining strong in his defense is nothing to read into. Strictly PR.

[Extremebillsfan247]

However, lol if the Bills lose today, it will be really hard for them to not explore other options at HC. Just saying. Jacksonville is 2-9.

[Ed]

Why wouldn't Nix defend Gailey? He's the one that hired him and wants to see him succeed more than anyone. As slim as it may be at this point, as long as the Bills still have a chance to finish with a winning record and make the playoffs Nix isn't going to do or say anything to undermine him. Nix probably still wants to keep Gailey regardless of how this season finishes, but may be forced to fire him simply due to the fact that he won't be able to sell him to the fans for another season.

[X-Era]

There probably has been an internal ultimatum issued...finish at 8-8 or better, or he's gone. As long as the goal is still attainable, Nix would have to support Gailey until he completely fails.Sure. But he can issue the ultimatum in private but doesn't have to go to the lengths he does defending Gailey and talking about change being bad.

He could have done thing without the WGR rant.

[Night Train]

For those advocating the Bills keeping Gailey and Fitz, the stadium has 40,000-50,000 empty seats today. Ticket sales will plummet in 2013 if obvious changes aren't made.

The Bills will beat the 2 win Jags... but can't beat anyone good and will finish below .500 again.

This act has been played for 13 years and the locals who buy tickets obviously aren't buying this dreck anymore. They want a winner and could care less how satisfied the Bills are with the bottom line.

[bigbub2352]

i would stay away from , manuel, geno, and barkley....i like what i see in tyler wilson and landry jones..even nesssib from cuse has played solid

Gailey can **** off and i hope Nix gives it to Whaley

[Novacane]

We crushed the great Jaguars. We don't need to make any changes.

[coastal]

Step one.

[TrEd FTW]

We crushed the great Jaguars. We don't need to make any changes.

The sad thing is that this is probably how Wilson and the front office actually think.

[Novacane]

The sad thing is that this is probably how Wilson and the front office actually think.



I don't doubt it. I wish them good luck selling that to the fans.

[DynaPaul]

We're good at besting the crap teams but the fans aren't buying it anymore. Just because we beat up a 9 loss team does not mean we've made improvements.

[Extremebillsfan247]

For those advocating the Bills keeping Gailey and Fitz, the stadium has 40,000-50,000 empty seats today. Ticket sales will plummet in 2013 if obvious changes aren't made.

The Bills will beat the 2 win Jags... but can't beat anyone good and will finish below .500 again.

This act has been played for 13 years and the locals who buy tickets obviously aren't buying this dreck anymore. They want a winner and could care less how satisfied the Bills are with the bottom line.
Here is the problem no one wants to talk about though. The unfortunate reality here is that this team doesn't listen to it's fans. We have a GM and front office that think fans don't know crap. This same record is played virtually every year. After the Bills collapse, there's always that contingent of fans crying bloody murder, and at the beginning of every new season they go right back, and the first few home games are sold out again. All the Bills have to do is get rid of an assistant coach, sign a big name player, promise change, and the fans will eat it right up. It's worked for the past 12 years, and until all 16 games are blacked out, that formula is not likely to change no matter how disgusted we get. Just saying.

[X-Era]

Here is the problem no one wants to talk about though. The unfortunate reality here is that this team doesn't listen to it's fans. We have a GM and front office that think fans don't know crap. This same record is played virtually every year. After the Bills collapse, there's always that contingent of fans crying bloody murder, and at the beginning of every new season they go right back, and the first few home games are sold out again. All the Bills have to do is get rid of an assistant coach, sign a big name player, promise change, and the fans will eat it right up. It's worked for the past 12 years, and until all 16 games are blacked out, that formula is not likely to change no matter how disgusted we get. Just saying.In the last 10 years have we kept the HC instead of firing him after 3 years? Instead we do what you didn't mention which is to blow it up, have a horrible year 1, a mediocre year 2 and 3 and then start all over again. When will that end? Is it absolutely ridiculous to add a few more pieces and keep the HC for one more year and see if that works? If we end up 8 and 8 this year?

We should be thinking of what's the best solution. Yet it seems we might be demanding drastic change just out of anger. And even if keeping Gailey for another year is a data point we don't have, it's something new... Why is it not true that if you do what you've always done, you get what you've always got?

[Mr. Pink]

In the last 10 years have we kept the HC instead of firing him after 3 years? Instead we do what you didn't mention which is to blow it up, have a horrible year 1, a mediocre year 2 and 3 and then start all over again. When will that end?

You're right. Too bad Gregg Williams isn't still here.

[X-Era]

You're right. Too bad Gregg Williams isn't still here.
I'm glad he's gone.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm glad he's gone.

We could have kept him for that magic continuity of mediocrity you want us to have.

[X-Era]

We could have kept him for that magic continuity of mediocrity you want us to have.
And we didn't... A data point we never collected.

[Mr. Pink]

And we didn't... A data point we never collected.

We didn't for a reason. Just like we didn't with Jauron. Just like we shouldn't with this guy who's worse than Gregg and Jauron.

None are good enough.

[X-Era]

We didn't for a reason. Just like we didn't with Jauron. Just like we shouldn't with this guy who's worse than Gregg and Jauron.

None are good enough.And if Gailey becomes the first HC to even get us to 8 and 8 or better since 2004? You say none were good enough yet none have had that 4th year either.

[Mr. Pink]

And if Gailey becomes the first HC to even get us to 8 and 8 or better since 2004? Or even the only HC since Levy and the one 2004 year with Mularkey to take us to 9 and 7?

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

9-7 ain't happening. 8-8 likely isn't either.

So that's great, Gailey inherits Jaurons' perennial 7-9 squads and takes 3 years to get them back to 7-9 and this is some kind of awesomeness that should keep him around longer! Not too mention his coaching staff choices, his play calling, his gameplans and his in game adjustments that are all terrible.

[BertSquirtgum]

For those advocating the Bills keeping Gailey and Fitz, the stadium has 40,000-50,000 empty seats today. Ticket sales will plummet in 2013 if obvious changes aren't made.

The Bills will beat the 2 win Jags... but can't beat anyone good and will finish below .500 again.

This act has been played for 13 years and the locals who buy tickets obviously aren't buying this dreck anymore. They want a winner and could care less how satisfied the Bills are with the bottom line.

No, more like 20,000. Huge difference.

[X-Era]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

9-7 ain't happening. 8-8 likely isn't either.

So that's great, Gailey inherits Jaurons' perennial 7-9 squads and takes 3 years to get them back to 7-9 and this is some kind of awesomeness that should keep him around longer! Not too mention his coaching staff choices, his play calling, his gameplans and his in game adjustments that are all terrible.
Aint's are worth taints too...

If we reach 8 and 8 or 9 and 7? Gailey is not on the cusp of the playoffs? He has not accomplished something that few others since Levy have? We are not showing an upward trend? And at 9 and 7 we do not have a winning season?

Still flat out can the guy if we get to 8 and 8 or 9 and 7?

[BertSquirtgum]

And if Gailey becomes the first HC to even get us to 8 and 8 or better since 2004? You say none were good enough yet none have had that 4th year either.

You are ****ing dreaming. Keep on drinking the gailey-aid.

[Mr. Pink]

Aint's are worth taints too...

If we reach 8 and 8 or 9 and 7? Gailey is not on the cusp of the playoffs? He has not accomplished something that few others since Levy have? We are not showing an upward trend? And at 9 and 7 we do not have a winning season?

Still flat out can the guy if we get to 8 and 8 or 9 and 7?

Alright we'll play the he'll get us to 8-8 game for talking purposes.

You know what schedule we draw for next season since I outlined it in a different thread.

What do you do with him when the team regresses to 6-10 with that schedule or worse?

[X-Era]

Alright we'll play the he'll get us to 8-8 game for talking purposes.

You know what schedule we draw for next season since I outlined it in a different thread.

What do you do with him when the team regresses to 6-10 with that schedule or worse?Absolutely fired. My premise is that the team is not that far away from being a legit playoff team regardless of things like schedule. If he can't do it with the changes I proposing he deserves to be canned.

I realize I'm harping on it but a real upgrade at ILB and OLB should make this defense solid. I want Wanny fired and someone brought in who understands how to cover the flats and seems and can find the right LB'ers to do so.

[Mr. Pink]

Absolutely fired. My premise is that the team is not that far away from being a legit playoff team regardless of things like schedule. If he can't do it with the changes I proposing he deserves to be canned.

And I say with the schedule we'll play next season, the gap between us and the AFC North and the NFC South is so large that 1 offseason won't be enough to overcome it. We're better than Cleveland and better than Carolina. Tampa Bay is a tossup game that goes either way. The rest of those teams are vastly superior than us on the field and on the sidelines and they all have top notch to franchise QBs. You go 2-6 or 3-5 in those matchups, combine the fact the Patriots own us and you're already looking at we have to win at minimum 5 of the other 6 games just to get to .500. We all know .500 isn't good enough to make the playoffs.

You think this team is close enough to beat Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincy, New Orleans or Atlanta? All 5 of those teams have offenses good enough to lay 30+ on us. 3 of those 5 teams have good enough defenses to hold us to 10 or less. Yes, I know, on any given Sunday you can win. But you can't win on every Sunday.

To improve or even stay the same on the hypothetical 8-8...you'd HAVE to beat Cleveland, Tampa, Carolina, Miami or NYJ twice ie go 3-3 in division with no exceptions, you couldn't drop any of those games, period. Then have to steal 2 games vs Bal, Pit, Cin, NO, ATL, NE.

So what's the point in keeping Gailey around outside of wasting another season?

[X-Era]

And I say with the schedule we'll play next season, the gap between us and the AFC North and the NFC South is so large that 1 offseason won't be enough to overcome it. We're better than Cleveland and better than Carolina. Tampa Bay is a tossup game that goes either way. The rest of those teams are vastly superior than us on the field and on the sidelines and they all have top notch to franchise QBs. You go 2-6 or 3-5 in those matchups, combine the fact the Patriots own us and you're already looking at we have to win at minimum 5 of the other 6 games just to get to .500. We all know .500 isn't good enough to make the playoffs.

You think this team is close enough to beat Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincy, New Orleans or Atlanta? All 5 of those teams have offenses good enough to lay 30+ on us. 3 of those 5 teams have good enough defenses to hold us to 10 or less. Yes, I know, on any given Sunday you can win. But you can't win on every Sunday.

To improve or even stay the same on the hypothetical 8-8...you'd HAVE to beat Cleveland, Tampa, Carolina, Miami or NYJ twice ie go 3-3 in division with no exceptions, you couldn't drop any of those games, period. Then have to steal 2 games vs Bal, Pit, Cin, NO, ATL, NE.

So what's the point in keeping Gailey around outside of wasting another season?
With a legit LB'er corp, improved Gilmore, Byrd back, DL healthy, and at least decent play from #2 CB, SS we can beat Cin and split with NE. We almost beat NE this year. NO looks very beatable this year. Cle, TB, Car are beatable, and Mia and the Jets may be beatable both times.

Again, If we can split with NE why can't we beat almost any of the teams you listed?

[BertSquirtgum]

Absolutely fired. My premise is that the team is not that far away from being a legit playoff team regardless of things like schedule. If he can't do it with the changes I proposing he deserves to be canned.

I realize I'm harping on it but a real upgrade at ILB and OLB should make this defense solid. I want Wanny fired and someone brought in who understands how to cover the flats and seems and can find the right LB'ers to do so.

You don't get it. You want your buddy Gailey to stay? Wannstedt will be staying with him.

[kingJofNYC]

How can anyone want Gailey here after this debacle of a season?

His mishandling of Spiller alone should get him the boot.

[YardRat]

Absolutely fired. My premise is that the team is not that far away from being a legit playoff team regardless of things like schedule. If he can't do it with the changes I proposing he deserves to be canned.

I realize I'm harping on it but a real upgrade at ILB and OLB should make this defense solid. I want Wanny fired and someone brought in who understands how to cover the flats and seems and can find the right LB'ers to do so.

I agree with you on this for the most part, X, but unfortunately for us if Gailey stays one more then Wanny will be here also, especially considering how the defense has started to play the last few weeks.

Both will use the same excuses we are..."But if we can only get a LBer and a QB, we'd make the playoffs for sure next season..."

[Mr. Pink]

With a legit LB'er corp, improved Gilmore, Byrd back, DL healthy, and at least decent play from #2 CB, SS we can beat Cin and split with NE. We almost beat NE this year. NO looks very beatable this year. Cle, TB, Car are beatable, and Mia and the Jets may be beatable both times.

Again, If we can split with NE why can't we beat almost any of the teams you listed?

We'd have to score 40 to beat NO...and they've been beatable because they have no real HC this year thanks to Bounty Gate.

We're what 1-19 in our last 20 vs NE? Beatable and actually getting the job done are two different things...meanwhile NE isn't getting worse.

Division games are always tough for middling teams, which is what we are so sweeping 2 teams in your division that are about your equal isn't realistic. Remember we got lambasted by the Jets in week 1.

I'll agree on Cincy being 1 of those games we could steal...but we still have to steal another just to stay .500. And honestly .500 vs the schedule we draw next year is much more impressive than a .500 we'd get this year. Hell 7-9 vs that schedule is more impressive than 8-8 vs this one but it is regression on the standings sheet and if you're going 4 years with a guy and you regress in the only column that matters, you're going the wrong way.

[X-Era]

I agree with you on this for the most part, X, but unfortunately for us if Gailey stays one more then Wanny will be here also, especially considering how the defense has started to play the last few weeks.

Both will use the same excuses we are..."But if we can only get a LBer and a QB, we'd make the playoffs for sure next season..."
I don't know that Gailey would be dead set against canning Wanny. But, he may stay, you're right.
Is it possible that the run D issues really were mostly guy properly filling their gaps? I still want LB'ers that can adequately cover the flat and seems. I still want guys that can shed blocks and tackle. Sheppard is horrible. Watch the play at 4:49 in the 2nd to get a glimpse of how bad he is.

[justasportsfan]

My biggest worry is that if the D continues to play better, Nix will make Wanny the HC. However, I'm pretty sure Wanny would want Chan as his OC so in the end, Chan will most likely stay.

[gebobs]

Just talked with a source within the NFL and he told me that he doesn't think Gailey keeps his job following the season and has heard that the Bills are high on Arkansas QB Tyler Wilson.
I hope he's better than another Razorback I remember.

16062

[justasportsfan]

Can't comment on the Gailey thing, but...Wilson is a VERY highly though of QB prospect among NFL eval guys, fans have him under rated. No doubt Bills are interested, expect him to be a Bills visitor at OBD without a doubt.

Does this mean then that he wont be there before we draft? Tannehill and Ponder come to mind. Someone will reach for him before we can take him.

[gebobs]

Being moderately exposed to SEC football, I should know more about him. The SEC is tough and just glossing over his stats, he seems to have done pretty in the two years he has started. 13 INTs this year though make his junior season the better of the two. Apparently, he had a concussion in the home loss to ULM. Not sure how well he moves in the pocket, but if his rushing stats and 14 sacks are any indication, it might be a concern. On the other hand, he seems to be a fierce competitor and doesn't suffer fools gladly.

Could be had in the 2nd round I think.

[better days]

I hope he's better than another Razorback I remember.

16062

It is clear you never saw Fergy play. 4th best Bills QB ever behind Kelly, Kemp & Lamonica.

[gebobs]

It is clear you never saw Fergy play.
Better wipe those glasses. I went to every game that he was in Buffalo up to the point I left for college in '81. I was there for his first game, in preseason, against the Skins where Herb Mul-Key set the tone for the newly opened Rich Stadium by returning the opening kick for a TD.


4th best Bills QB ever behind Kelly, Kemp & Lamonica.
LOL...That's not saying much. Kelly for sure. Kemp...great leader, but a lousy passer. The Bills won despite his shortcomings mainly due to an amazing defense and a diamond-in-the-rough running back.

It's telling that you would list a guy that had only 350 attempts in a Bills uniform as one of the franchise's three best quarterbacks. But let's leave Lamonica out of it. Let's just consider QB's with at least 500 attempts. IMHO...

1. Kelly

Big, huge gap.

2-5. Kemp, Fergie, Flutie, Bledsoe. A case can be made for any of them in any position, but I'll go with Fergie in the top 3.

6-11: Shaw, Collins, Johnson, Losman, Edwards, Fitz.

Ferguson was decent, but he was maddening at times as his career TD/INT ratio should indicate...181/198 with the Bills. He was never a guy you could count on to carry a team. He needed a solid cast around him and even then he always came up short.

Is he better than just about every QB in franchise history? Certainly. But considering the cast of schlubs OBD has paraded out as starters, it's faint praise indeed.

[DraftBoy]

Does this mean then that he wont be there before we draft? Tannehill and Ponder come to mind. Someone will reach for him before we can take him.

As it stands now, I wouldn't not expect him to make it to 11 where we currently sit.

[Slim]

As it stands now, I wouldn't not expect him to make it to 11 where we currently sit.

If the Bills really like a QB, this would be a good year to move up and get their guy.

[JohnnyGold]

Alright we'll play the he'll get us to 8-8 game for talking purposes.

You know what schedule we draw for next season since I outlined it in a different thread.

What do you do with him when the team regresses to 6-10 with that schedule or worse?


the only games that will be different for us in terms of order of finish in the division are:

1 game vs sd, kc or oak

and

1 game vs ind, ten, or jax

i dont like fitz and gailey either, but to not bring them back based on next years schedule is silly

[DraftBoy]

If the Bills really like a QB, this would be a good year to move up and get their guy.

May have to. They have multiple targets though so it will be based on what kind of deal they can get along with the risk/reward.

[Mr. Pink]

the only games that will be different for us in terms of order of finish in the division are:

1 game vs sd, kc or oak

and

1 game vs ind, ten, or jax

i dont like fitz and gailey either, but to not bring them back based on next years schedule is silly

If you get to 8-8 this year and then regress next year, which I guarantee their record will be at best 6-10 with the schedule they'll draw. What basis do you keep the guy around under? The NFL is results league and if you go from 8-8 one year to 6-10 the next year, in year 4 of your rebuilding mode, your rebuilding mode was a failure.

[better days]

If you get to 8-8 this year and then regress next year, which I guarantee their record will be at best 6-10 with the schedule they'll draw. What basis do you keep the guy around under? The NFL is results league and if you go from 8-8 one year to 6-10 the next year, in year 4 of your rebuilding mode, your rebuilding mode was a failure.

Well, if the Bills do go from 8-8 this year to 6-10 next year, then Chan should be fired. But if they get a decent QB & a LB or 2 this off season, the Bills may do better than 6-10.

[BertSquirtgum]

Bills should do whatever they can to get Manti Te'o.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, if the Bills do go from 8-8 this year to 6-10 next year, then Chan should be fired. But if they get a decent QB & a LB or 2 this off season, the Bills may do better than 6-10.

The QB here next year will be either Fitz, Vick or Alex Smith.

Because that's what will be available for us to choose from.

[gebobs]

What's this "if next year" shee-ite that "the rebuild will be a failure"? It IS a failure. Is it not painfully obvious what a chump Gailey is?

One game against a crap team and you guys are already humping the couch again? Who have the Bills beaten this year? They have beaten the last place team in every division in the AFC and the NFC West. Combined record: 17-43.

[justasportsfan]

As it stands now, I wouldn't not expect him to make it to 11 where we currently sit.

from the little that I've seen, he has great ball placement inspite of having a crappy OL. Am I right? :idunno:

[trapezeus]

i think the OP makes sense given that nix is essentially tired of answering the gailey question. he knows he's doing the PC thing by saying, "we are behind our man. but he also knows his responsibility to field a marketable team. barring a complete miracle, something that hasnt' happened since the 32 point comeback game, we aren't getting to the playoffs.

I think a guy like Nix, an old-timer, has to hate saying one thing, knowing at the end he'll have to do another. and i think that's probably why he's tired of answering the question.

But to me, this all seems like a mob hit. They take out nix's man, but nix knows that doesn't mean he's safe. it means he's next if he doesn't get it right. and i do think his intentions are good. and i think he's been a good soldier most of his career and has routinely been passed over as GM. so i genuinely think he wants to win and prove that he deserved the gig.

firing chan only means the scrutiny on him is increased.

[Mr. Pink]

What's this "if next year" shee-ite that "the rebuild will be a failure"? It IS a failure. Is it not painfully obvious what a chump Gailey is?

One game against a crap team and you guys are already humping the couch again? Who have the Bills beaten this year? They have beaten the last place team in every division in the AFC and the NFC West. Combined record: 17-43.

It is a failure and he should be canned now.

My point is holding him another season is just wasting the season because there's no way you can sell anyone on keeping him in 2014 after you regress in the standings in 2013.

[gebobs]

Next season? How are those lease negotiations going?

[Oaf]

We still haven't beating a team with a good QB since Tom Brady Week 3 2011.

[BertSquirtgum]

Next season? How are those lease negotiations going?

They already have an extension for next year.

[gebobs]

They already have an extension for next year.
I'm not talking about the current lease or any measly one year extension of it. I'm talking about the negotiations for a new lease.

Nonetheless, I haven't seen anything that says it has been signed, have you? All I have seen is that they have "agreed in principle" to the extension.

[jimbohastle51]

Tyler Wilson is going to be one of, if not the top QB after the combine and work outs are completed. The boy has skills. Is he a top 5 pick? Not in my opinion, but does he have a lot of potential? Definitely.

[Albany,n.y.]

Here's the problem: Every year around Nov/Dec fans start talking up a can't miss QB. Then the guy shoots up the draft boards & we win a meaningless game or 2 taking us out of any chance of getting him. That or the guy is already going to be a pick that is too high for us to get near. So while we're winning our 6 or 7 games other teams are losing the games in December that ace us out of these guys. It's been happening since Pittsburgh had a bad enough year to get Roethlisberger & we ended up with JP.

[The Jokeman]

It is clear you never saw Fergy play. 4th best Bills QB ever behind Kelly, Kemp & Lamonica.

and what's really sad is Fergy was the only QB the Bills ever developed. Kelly deveoled in the USFL, Kemp with the Chargers and Lamonica did so with the Raiders.

[better days]

and what's really sad is Fergy was the only QB the Bills ever developed. Kelly deveoled in the USFL, Kemp with the Chargers and Lamonica did so with the Raiders.

Lamonica was developed by the Bills. He came in & won a number of games as a Bill. He was fully developed when he went to Oakland in probably the worst trade in Bills history.

[GingerP]

Lamonica was developed by the Bills. He came in & won a number of games as a Bill. He was fully developed when he went to Oakland in probably the worst trade in Bills history.

Lamonica was a backup to Kemp his entire career on the Bills, and it is hard to fault them for trading him at the time. He only started 4 games in 4 seasons, and he was a much better player after being traded to Oakland.

His career numbers with the Bills:

150/353 (42.5%), 2,499 Yds (7.1 YPA), 16 TD, 23 Int, 55.0 QB Rating

His career numbers with the Oakland:

1,135/2,239 (50.7%), 16,620 Yds (7.4 YPA), 147 TD, 111 Int, 76.5 QB Rating

In hindsight, they should have kept Lamonica and moved on from Kemp, but at that time the trade made more sense.

[gebobs]

Lamonica was a backup to Kemp his entire career on the Bills, and it is hard to fault them for trading him at the time. He only started 4 games in 4 seasons, and he was a much better player after being traded to Oakland.

His career numbers with the Bills:

150/353 (42.5%), 2,499 Yds (7.1 YPA), 16 TD, 23 Int, 55.0 QB Rating

His career numbers with the Oakland:

1,135/2,239 (50.7%), 16,620 Yds (7.4 YPA), 147 TD, 111 Int, 76.5 QB Rating

In hindsight, they should have kept Lamonica and moved on from Kemp, but at that time the trade made more sense.
Lolwhut? How did the trade make sense? Who trades away the QB their grooming to replace the aging starter? It was the most boneheaded trade in franchise history and everyone knew the second it was made that Davis had taken Wilson out to the woodshed on that one.

Lamonica was 26 and entering the prime of his career. Flores was 30 at the time of the trade and out of football two seasons later. Kemp was 32 and missed the entire following season with an injury. As a result, the Bills were forced to start, Rutkowski, a frickin' receiver, at QB.

If only Wilson owned the Patriots. He would have kept Bledsoe and traded his backup to us. That would have made sense at the time.

[better days]

Lamonica was a backup to Kemp his entire career on the Bills, and it is hard to fault them for trading him at the time. He only started 4 games in 4 seasons, and he was a much better player after being traded to Oakland.

His career numbers with the Bills:

150/353 (42.5%), 2,499 Yds (7.1 YPA), 16 TD, 23 Int, 55.0 QB Rating

His career numbers with the Oakland:

1,135/2,239 (50.7%), 16,620 Yds (7.4 YPA), 147 TD, 111 Int, 76.5 QB Rating

In hindsight, they should have kept Lamonica and moved on from Kemp, but at that time the trade made more sense.

Wrong. Of course Lamonicas numbers were better with Oakland than his numbers in Buffalo, he was a STARTER in Oakland. At the time of the trade, Lamonica was a fully developed rising star. Kemp was OLD & losing it. That trade made no sense at all, Buffalo gave up a young QB with probowl potential & acquired a couple OLD over the hill players in return.

[GingerP]

Lolwhut? How did the trade make sense? Who trades away the QB their grooming to replace the aging starter? It was the most boneheaded trade in franchise history and everyone knew the second it was made that Davis had taken Wilson out to the woodshed on that one.

Lamonica was 26 and entering the prime of his career. Flores was 30 at the time of the trade and out of football two seasons later. Kemp was 32 and missed the entire following season with an injury. As a result, the Bills were forced to start, Rutkowski, a frickin' receiver, at QB.

Again, I think you are looking at it in hindsight. I was pretty young, but the consensus at the time was Buffalo got the better of the deal. They got Tom Flores from Oakland, and he had started there and was only 29. Flores was coming off the best year of his career. They also got Art Powell, who was a really good WR coming off a huge year. Unfortunately, Powell hurt his knee and didn't pan out.

Lamonica may have been young and had promise, but he was an unknown. He basically was Kemp's backup. It is easy to sit back now because the trade worked out great for Oakland and was a mistake by Buffalo, but at the time I think most people thought Buffalo got a great deal.

Also, this wasn't the worst trade in Buffalo history. I think getting rid of Bob McDole was worse.

[stuckincincy]

Lamonica was a backup to Kemp his entire career on the Bills, and it is hard to fault them for trading him at the time. He only started 4 games in 4 seasons, and he was a much better player after being traded to Oakland.

His career numbers with the Bills:

150/353 (42.5%), 2,499 Yds (7.1 YPA), 16 TD, 23 Int, 55.0 QB Rating

His career numbers with the Oakland:

1,135/2,239 (50.7%), 16,620 Yds (7.4 YPA), 147 TD, 111 Int, 76.5 QB Rating

In hindsight, they should have kept Lamonica and moved on from Kemp, but at that time the trade made more sense.

The Bills got Tom Flores and Art Powell in exchange for Lamonica and Glenn Bass. Whatta deal...

[gebobs]

Again, I think you are looking at it in hindsight. I was pretty young, but the consensus at the time was Buffalo got the better of the deal.
We must be about the same age. But you're probably right. The "consensus" I had was listening to my father and his friends moaning about the trade. And that was probably after Flores and Powell went down and Lamonica emerged. But Lamonica was a fan favorite in Buffalo. Probably akin to Reich.


Also, this wasn't the worst trade in Buffalo history. I think getting rid of Bob McDole was worse.

Ron Mcdole. ;-)

But yeah, those two trades are certainly the worst. I would say the McDole trade had a silver lining. Wilson was sick of Rauch and wanted him gone, but he didn't want to eat the contract. After Rauch made the trade, Wilson had to deal with the the fanbase that was outraged with the coach (by the trade and also for calling Paul McGuire "the clown of the team"). Wilson told Rauch he was going to make a statement that McDole was a fine player still and wasn't traded because he was washed up as Rauch had publicly said. Rauch told Wilson that if he did that, he would resign.

Within 5 minutes, Wilson was on the phone with Van Miller and putting a match to Rauch's contract.

Unfortunately, Wilson again went on the cheap with Harvey Johnson.

Hey, but speaking of good ol' John Rauch, wanna hear something really funny? He was also the coach that pulled the trigger on the Lamonica trade...for Oakland.

[GingerP]

Hey, but speaking of good ol' John Rauch, wanna hear something really funny? He was also the coach that pulled the trigger on the Lamonica trade...for Oakland.

I remember reading an article that Al Davis was hesitant about pulling the trigger on Lamonica because he thought the Bills were asking for too much. He finally decided to go ahead with it after talking to the coaches, who really wanted Lamonica.

I'm not saying the Lamonica trade was was a good one, it wasn't. At the time though I thought people were thinking the Bills got real good value. It didn't work out. That is different from the kind of incompetence that fostered other moves.

[gebobs]

Here's something I found from a book written by Billy Shaw, Rockin' the Rockpile: The Buffalo Bills of the AFL...it's still hindsight of course. Just posting it if anyone's interested.

16071

[Mr. Pink]

Lamonica was run out of town for personal reasons, not football related reasons.

[gebobs]

Lamonica was run out of town for personal reasons, not football related reasons.
Like what? Was he banging Hasek's wife too?

[better days]

Again, I think you are looking at it in hindsight. I was pretty young, but the consensus at the time was Buffalo got the better of the deal. They got Tom Flores from Oakland, and he had started there and was only 29. Flores was coming off the best year of his career. They also got Art Powell, who was a really good WR coming off a huge year. Unfortunately, Powell hurt his knee and didn't pan out.

Lamonica may have been young and had promise, but he was an unknown. He basically was Kemp's backup. It is easy to sit back now because the trade worked out great for Oakland and was a mistake by Buffalo, but at the time I think most people thought Buffalo got a great deal.

Also, this wasn't the worst trade in Buffalo history. I think getting rid of Bob McDole was worse.

Like I said before, you are wrong. The consensus was NOT that Buffalo got the better of the deal & if you can find ONE article from the time saying so, I would love to read it. BOTH Flores & Powell were OLD at the time of the trade as was Kemp. STUPID trade!!!

At least in the McDole trade, the Bills got draft picks in return, not washed up has beens, but that trade was STUPID as well.

[GingerP]

Like I said before, you are wrong. The consensus was NOT that Buffalo got the better of the deal & if you can find ONE article from the time saying so, I would love to read it. BOTH Flores & Powell were OLD at the time of the trade as was Kemp. STUPID trade!!!

At least in the McDole trade, the Bills got draft picks in return, not washed up has beens, but that trade was STUPID as well.

Flores was 29 and coming off his best season. Powell was 29 and coming off back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons. Powell is on the All-Time AFL team, he was a great player. Unfortunately, he got hurt.

Here is your article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080556/index.htm


Oakland got Lamonica and Receiver Glenn Bass. Buffalo got Tom Flores, who had been Oakland's No. 1 quarterback, and the superb receiver, Art Powell. There was some juggling of draft choices by the teams, too. Then the rest of the AFL sat back to see which club had been shrewdest. The early favorite was Buffalo.

You seem very angry. This is just an online conversation.

[better days]

Flores was 29 and coming off his best season. Powell was 29 and coming off back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons. Powell is on the All-Time AFL team, he was a great player. Unfortunately, he got hurt.

Here is your article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080556/index.htm



You seem very angry. This is just an online conversation.

Flores was 29.......................OLD. As was Powell. I don't care how good his season was the year before. In BUFFALO everyone was MAD that Lamonica was traded & NOBODY thought the Bills got the better of the trade.

[GingerP]

Flores was 29.......................OLD. As was Powell. I don't care how good his season was the year before. In BUFFALO everyone was MAD that Lamonica was traded & NOBODY thought the Bills got the better of the trade.

OK man, you win. I withdraw the whole thing. Wasn't trying to anger anyone. Apparently you take this quite personally.

[GingerP]

I wasn't trying to say it was a good trade. Just saying that is hindsight, that when the trade was made it wasn't thought to be so one-sided. People lamented it because Powell got hurt and Flores didn't play well, while Lamonica turned into a good player.

Long time Bills beat-man Bob DiCesare wrote this about it:


It looked like such a good deal when it was made. Bills quarterback Jack Kemp, 33 years old, was nearing the end of his career. Daryle Lamonica, 25, hadn't shown much in his four seasons as Kemp's understudy. The Bills were looking for someone a little more reliable to play Kemp's backup, someone with a history of success. They were looking to upgrade themselves at receiver, too.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2001/03/01/sayitaintso_bills/

That is all I was trying to say, that the deal at the time wasn't considered bad, that they had good reasons to try and make the deal. It didn't work out.

[gebobs]

I wasn't trying to say it was a good trade. Just saying that is hindsight, that when the trade was made it wasn't thought to be so one-sided. People lamented it because Powell got hurt and Flores didn't play well, while Lamonica turned into a good player.
I was the first to question you and you might be right. Everyone agrees that the trade sucked now. But in the immediate aftermath, who can remember? I asked my father and he honestly couldn't say.

If there was any local support for the trade on draft day, it certainly began to fade when Lamonica lit up the AFL that year with 30 TDs and beat Buffalo twice while the Bills limped along to a 4-10 record with Flores throwing picks every time he got in. It certainly vanished by the next year with Flores injured and Powell gone.

[Frenchman]

Tyler seems like a great QB. Just caught in the wrong situation in Arkansas. But we shall see what happens in 2013. As Gailey while a nice guy but as a coach, well that is another story.

[better days]

OK man, you win. I withdraw the whole thing. Wasn't trying to anger anyone. Apparently you take this quite personally.

I'm not angry..............now, but I was at the time of that trade. I'm just trying to set the facts straight.

[better days]

I wasn't trying to say it was a good trade. Just saying that is hindsight, that when the trade was made it wasn't thought to be so one-sided. People lamented it because Powell got hurt and Flores didn't play well, while Lamonica turned into a good player.

Long time Bills beat-man Bob DiCesare wrote this about it:



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2001/03/01/sayitaintso_bills/

That is all I was trying to say, that the deal at the time wasn't considered bad, that they had good reasons to try and make the deal. It didn't work out.

Bob DiCesare was a baby when that trade was made. I was a young teen at the time & remember it well. I remember MANY games Lamonica would come in when the Bills were behind & win the game, throwing the ball downfield. DiCesare is wrong when he wrote Lamonica hadn't shown much, he showed PLENTY.

[ServoBillieves]

Lamonica was a backup to Kemp his entire career on the Bills, and it is hard to fault them for trading him at the time. He only started 4 games in 4 seasons, and he was a much better player after being traded to Oakland.

His career numbers with the Bills:

150/353 (42.5%), 2,499 Yds (7.1 YPA), 16 TD, 23 Int, 55.0 QB Rating

His career numbers with the Oakland:

1,135/2,239 (50.7%), 16,620 Yds (7.4 YPA), 147 TD, 111 Int, 76.5 QB Rating

In hindsight, they should have kept Lamonica and moved on from Kemp, but at that time the trade made more sense.

HEY! Aren't you forgetting another important statistic?!

9/19 for 90 yards 1 TD/0 INT for the SC Sun! IMHO his best statistical season.

[gebobs]

I'm not angry..............now, but I was at the time of that trade. I'm just trying to set the facts straight.
You have a better memory than me. I was 12 when the Sabres traded Shack for Robert. Though I know in hindsight that the trade was great, I couldn't say at all what I thought about it at the time. Heck, I can't even say what my reaction was to the trade that brought Hasek and that was just 20 years ago.

[better days]

You have a better memory than me. I was 12 when the Sabres traded Shack for Robert. Though I know in hindsight that the trade was great, I couldn't say at all what I thought about it at the time. Heck, I can't even say what my reaction was to the trade that brought Hasek and that was just 20 years ago.

Well, as I said, I was a young teen at the time & a DIEHARD Rabid Bills fan just like I am today. I remember that trade all too well

[gebobs]

Well, as I said, I was a young teen at the time & a DIEHARD Rabid Bills fan just like I am today. I remember that trade all too well
I'm sure you do. But isn't it possible that what you remember about the reaction is from months later after it began to flesh out? When GingerP first said that the trade was seen as good at the time, I was all over him. I remember watching games with my dad and his friends and listening to them moan as Lamonica lit it up.

The trade happened on the first day of the 1967 draft. Can you really say, without any doubt whatsoever, that your reaction right then and there was one of disgust? Even more, can you really say, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that this was the reaction around Buffalo? I can't. My dad was 43 at the time and he can't. My brother was 14 and he can't.

All I can go by is the link that GingerP gave and that I read earlier too. I have looked and looked for evidence of local reaction in the immediate aftermath, but I can't find anything. It says that Davis was hesitant because he thought the price for Lamonica was too high. Is it possible that Wilson thought he was getting fair value? Is it possible that many Bills fans agreed?

I just want you to consider that possibility. If you still feel the same way, then I'll take you at your word.

[better days]

I'm sure you do. But isn't it possible that what you remember about the reaction is from months later after it began to flesh out? When GingerP first said that the trade was seen as good at the time, I was all over him. I remember watching games with my dad and his friends and listening to them moan as Lamonica lit it up.

The trade happened on the first day of the 1967 draft. Can you really say, without any doubt whatsoever, that your reaction right then and there was one of disgust? Even more, can you really say, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that this was the reaction around Buffalo? I can't. My dad was 43 at the time and he can't. My brother was 14 and he can't.

All I can go by is the link that GingerP gave and that I read earlier too. I have looked and looked for evidence of local reaction in the immediate aftermath, but I can't find anything. It says that Davis was hesitant because he thought the price for Lamonica was too high. Is it possible that Wilson thought he was getting fair value? Is it possible that many Bills fans agreed?

I just want you to consider that possibility. If you still feel the same way, then I'll take you at your word.

Well, if the price for Lamonica was high, that is because Lamonica was a young fully developed QB. If your dad was 43 at the time, that would make him 88 today, not surprising he can't remember. I was 16 at the time, a HARDCORE Bills fan & can definitely say when I read about that trade in the paper I was heartbroken & disgusted.

There was no internet at the time & I was too young to hang out in bars, but I don't remember talking to anybody that was happy about that trade at the time. If there is anybody on this board that was about my age or older & they want to admit they were happy with that trade, I would love to read that post.

[HAMMER]

Good God you people take this stuff personal, lighten up Francis.

[gebobs]

If your dad was 43 at the time
My bad, 41.


that would make him 88 today, not surprising he can't remember.
He hasn't lost his mind just yet. Still practicing law at 86.


I was 16 at the time, a HARDCORE Bills fan & can definitely say when I read about that trade in the paper I was heartbroken & disgusted.
OK, I said I'd take your word at it.

[stuckincincy]

The Kemp vs. Lamonica debate was pretty active. If I had to guess, I'd say most folks were dismayed about the trade. Obviously, salt was poured into the wound in the 1967 season, as BUF plummeted to 4 and 10. Powell and Flores showed little, while Lamonica led OAK to a 13 -1 record, winning the AFL championship. He tossed 30 tds, and had a completion percentage of 50.8 - both high numbers in the days of bump and run, head slaps and so on.

BUF's subsequent letting-go of Haven Moses, James Harris, Ahmad Rashad, and Ron McDole was...inexplicable.