Fletcher...

[OpIv37]

I know, beating a dead horse.

But watching this guy kills me. We never should have let him go. LB is clearly our biggest weakness, and the guy can STILL flat-out play, even in his mid-30's.

Talent evaluation fails the Bills yet again...

[Skooby]

He left Buffalo after getting older with multiple injuries, anonmolies do happen.

[GingerP]

He left Buffalo after getting older with multiple injuries, anonmolies do happen.

Right... getting older with multiple injuries. They got rid of him because he was breaking down.

Meanwhile, he has a 236 consecutive games played streak.

I hope you were being ironic.

[Mr. Pink]

Would have been nice to keep him.

We wouldn't have drafted that slow injury prone white stiff and used that pick on a better player and still had a top flight MLB today.

[BertSquirtgum]

I was watching the game and thinking about making a thread to ask this question. Why did the Bills ever let him go to begin with? He was great while he played here.

- - - Updated - - -


He left Buffalo after getting older with multiple injuries, anonmolies do happen.

Terrible post.

[kingJofNYC]

I thought he was awful tonight to be honest, really showed his age, kind of sad but he was playing with a bum ankle. With that said I agree with your premise. Guy is a leader, was a great player for us, never should have been let go, same deal with Pat Williams. Both played great football after they left Buffalo, though we can say that about a lot of ex-Bills, but Pat Williams and Fletcher in particular, especially Pat. Hard to find genuine NT in this league.

Jauron had his wunderkind Poz, so I guess he had no use for Fletcher.

[Mouldsie]

Don't forget Winfield

[Ingtar33]

Fletcher was let go generally with the fans happy to see him go.

Because somewhere along the way people started to think he sucked because he wasn't Ray Lewis, and him leading the league in tackles (or close to it) meant nothing because he wasn't killing people in his limo and dumping... wait... no... i mean killing RBs in the hole or that most of his tackles were junk because most weren't behind the LOS.

[OpIv37]

Fletcher was let go generally with the fans happy to see him go.

Because somewhere along the way people started to think he sucked because he wasn't Ray Lewis, and him leading the league in tackles (or close to it) meant nothing because he wasn't killing people in his limo and dumping... wait... no... i mean killing RBs in the hole or that most of his tackles were junk because most weren't behind the LOS.

The fans are not football experts who get paid millions to get it right. The FO is. Brandon has the marketing aspect locked down. The rest of the FO should concentrate on making the right football tradition.

[OpIv37]

That was supposed to say "transaction," not tradition. Damn auto correct.

[Mike]

Fletcher was let go generally with the fans happy to see him go.

Because somewhere along the way people started to think he sucked because he wasn't Ray Lewis, and him leading the league in tackles (or close to it) meant nothing because he wasn't killing people in his limo and dumping... wait... no... i mean killing RBs in the hole or that most of his tackles were junk because most weren't behind the LOS.

Most often when a player is part of the team, the fans overrate him and when he leaves the team, the same fans blast him. When Fletcher left the Fans were happy the same way they were happy to see Pat go, and Peters, and Winfield, and Clements, et al.

[Skooby]

Right... getting older with multiple injuries. They got rid of him because he was breaking down.

Meanwhile, he has a 236 consecutive games played streak.

I hope you were being ironic.

Completely sarcastic, it's another example of how our management has screwed the pooch.

[Night Train]

Like Poz, Fletcher was a drag down tackler after the RB already gained 7-8 yards. Avoided sticking his body in the hole at all costs.

Good locker room guy but that doesn't get the job done on the field. His peak was winning the SB with the Rams 13-14 years ago.

Just because Sheppard & Barnett aren't playing well doesn't cloud my memeory of Fletcher, Poz and others that didn't get the job done. That's the Bills not putting effective talent on the field.

[kishoph]

I thought he was awful tonight to be honest, really showed his age, kind of sad but he was playing with a bum ankle. With that said I agree with your premise. Guy is a leader, was a great player for us, never should have been let go, same deal with Pat Williams. Both played great football after they left Buffalo, though we can say that about a lot of ex-Bills, but Pat Williams and Fletcher in particular, especially Pat. Hard to find genuine NT in this league.

Jauron had his wunderkind Poz, so I guess he had no use for Fletcher.


Fletcher was let go generally with the fans happy to see him go.

Because somewhere along the way people started to think he sucked because he wasn't Ray Lewis, and him leading the league in tackles (or close to it) meant nothing because he wasn't killing people in his limo and dumping... wait... no... i mean killing RBs in the hole or that most of his tackles were junk because most weren't behind the LOS.


The same goes for Poz, sure he would of cost a lot, but good players are going to cost and as far as "he only made tackles 8 yds. down field", that was a complete myth. This year in 12 games, Poz has over 100 total tackles, 3 int's, 7 PD's and 2 FF's, while our MLB has 51 total tackles and that's it, no int's, no passes defensed, no forced fumbles and basically sucks.

[IAG]

A great signing by Tom Donahoe.

[YardRat]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/archive/index.php/t-117034.html

[OpIv37]

Like Poz, Fletcher was a drag down tackler after the RB already gained 7-8 yards. Avoided sticking his body in the hole at all costs.

Good locker room guy but that doesn't get the job done on the field. His peak was winning the SB with the Rams 13-14 years ago.

Just because Sheppard & Barnett aren't playing well doesn't cloud my memeory of Fletcher, Poz and others that didn't get the job done. That's the Bills not putting effective talent on the field.

I disagree on Fletcher. I was in DC for over 10 years and I'm in Baltimore now, so I've been exposed to him a lot since he left. The dude can flat out play. Yeah, he does rack up downfield tackles to make the stats look better, but he also makes great plays and has great instincts. I've seen him live a handful of times since he's been with the Skins, and he does things you don't notice on TV, like take away passing lanes or force the RB to bounce it away from the intended point of attack. The guy has better instincts and makes more big plays than Poz or anyone on our current roster. We would have been far better off if we had just kept him and skipped the whole Poz fiasco.

[justasportsfan]

Like Poz, Fletcher was a drag down tackler after the RB already gained 7-8 yards. Avoided sticking his body in the hole at all costs.


Agreed. He was a tackling machine but didn't make big plays. Couldn't make plays at the LOS. POZ was the same thing.

[GingerP]

Agreed. He was a tackling machine but didn't make big plays. Couldn't make plays at the LOS. POZ was the same thing.

Fletcher is the kind of LB that plays best with big tackles in front of him to tie up blockers. He is kind of like Zach Thomas, in that he has terrific instincts. He diagnoses plays quickly and flies to the ball. The guy has been a good player for a long time.

His production is undeniable. He has over 1,600 career tackles. He evidently is making those tackles before his teammates, and the guy has played on some pretty good defenses. He is a leader and a physical presence. He is a tone-setter, because he plays so fast he collects big hits.

Year-after-year the guy has 100+ tackles. On top of that he has 35 career sacks, 69 career passes defensed, 20 interceptions, 18 forced fumbles and 12 fumble recoveries. Those are impact plays.

The biggest criticism you can come up with is he isn't Dick Butkus or Ray Lewis. He is a different kind of LB. So what? He is a sideline-to-sideline tackling machine. He isn't a guy who is going to take on guards or fullbacks and clog things up. He is a guy who going to beat the blocker to the ball and make a play. He has been a real good player over a long period of time, a guy who produces year-after-year.

[OpIv37]

And honestly, let's put things in perspective. He's no Ray Lewis, but does anyone really think the Bills wouldn't be better with Fletcher right now that we are with Sheppard and Barnett? The guy is leagues ahead of anyone on our team right now, and the only one with any hope of catching up to him is Bradham, who plays OLB and not MLB anyway.

[justasportsfan]

And honestly, let's put things in perspective. He's no Ray Lewis, but does anyone really think the Bills wouldn't be better with Fletcher right now that we are with Sheppard and Barnett? The guy is leagues ahead of anyone on our team right now, and the only one with any hope of catching up to him is Bradham, who plays OLB and not MLB anyway.


you can ask the same thing about Poz who is having better nos. than Fletcher yet you wanted him gone.

[OpIv37]

you can ask the same thing about Poz who is having better nos. than Fletcher yet you wanted him gone.

Poz was garbage here. He doesn't have nearly the instincts that Fletcher does. Putting up better numbers for one season doesn't mean squat.

[justasportsfan]

Poz was garbage here. He doesn't have nearly the instincts that Fletcher does. Putting up better numbers for one season doesn't mean squat.

it can be argued that Fletcher had better nos. here because he had PAt Williams, Spikes, Sam Adams , etc. Who did POz have? POz also had to play the 3-4 and was out of position.

Fletcher also had Greg Williams. An aggressive coach while POz had Dick "play not to lose" Jauron. That one year may mean POz is playing better now that he's in a better situation.

I'm not a big POz fan at all but there's no sense in crying over spilled milk when the guy you are crying about is arguably equal or slightly better than another guy you wanted gone.

[OpIv37]

it can be argued that Fletcher had better nos. here because he had PAt Williams, Spikes, Sam Adams , etc. Who did POz have? POz also had to play the 3-4 and was out of position.

Fletcher also had Greg Williams. An aggressive coach while POz had Dick "play not to lose" Jauron. That one year may mean POz is playing better now that he's in a better situation.

I'm not a big POz fan at all but there's no sense in crying over spilled milk when the guy you are crying about is arguably equal or slightly better than another guy you wanted gone.


Poz had no one in front of him unless you think

Poz was here for 4 years. He played the 3-4 for ONE YEAR.

And some players make the guys around them better while some players need better guys around them. Fletch is the former, Poz is the latter.

I really hate the "well he was on a better team" argument. Football's a team sport- put any linebacker next to Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs, or behind Pat Williams and Kevin Williams, and they are going to look better. That's just how it works.

[justasportsfan]

Poz was here for 4 years. He played the 3-4 for ONE YEAR. You still ignored Jauron and one year still affects POz's nos. especially when you bring up what POz did HERE.


And some players make the guys around them better while some players need better guys around them. Fletch is the former, Poz is the latter. .
how much better ? Not much Redskins is ranked 29 and Jags 30th in their 1st year of rebuild this year.
2011 , the jags had a better defense than the redksins.
in 2010 the redskins was ranked 31.

I really hate the "well he was on a better team" argument. Football's a team sport- put any linebacker next to Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs, or behind Pat Williams and Kevin Williams, and they are going to look better. That's just how it works.
exactly, thats why Fletcher looked better than POZ while they were here in buffalo because Fletch had a better cast and coach.


You are only as good as your last performance and POz is having a better year than Fletcher. You are crying over spilled milk based on how Fletcher is playing this year since you're bringing it up now. While I agree in HINDSIGHT that Fletcher would be better than Sheppard, in HINDSIGHT Poz would be better too.

[OpIv37]

I brought it up now because I was watching Fletcher play LAST NIGHT when I created the thread. And it's not just this year- I've said this several times since Fletch left.

And, as someone else pointed out, if we had kept Fletch, we wouldn't have had to draft Poz and maybe we could have gotten someone good with the pick.

Anyway, the point is that it's business as usual for the Bills. They let players walk and fail to replace them with anyone equal or better. Poz wasn't as good as Fletch and no one we have now is as good as either one of them. I wanted Poz gone because I wanted someone better- I should have known this FO wouldn't be able to make that happen.

[stuckincincy]

Agreed. He was a tackling machine but didn't make big plays. Couldn't make plays at the LOS. POZ was the same thing.

I guess one has to ask what was the quality of the rest of the BUF defenses he played with.

One thing is for sure: If BUF fans get a hair up their fanny against a player, they keep up the pogrom until the guy bolts.

[The King]

This is the one move I point to when I talk about how dumb we are/were.

Opt to not sign a lights out player who wants to be here. To create a hole and be forced to draft his replacement. It's impossible to build when you create holes.

[HAMMER]

Hmmmm, my recollection was no one wanted to re-sign him because he was old and making tackles 8 yards down field.

[The King]

I still have my Fletcher jersey. I was a huge fan of his.

[trapezeus]

And honestly, let's put things in perspective. He's no Ray Lewis, but does anyone really think the Bills wouldn't be better with Fletcher right now that we are with Sheppard and Barnett? The guy is leagues ahead of anyone on our team right now, and the only one with any hope of catching up to him is Bradham, who plays OLB and not MLB anyway.


i'm not sure. clealry the guy can still play, but do you trust hte bills to utilize him correctly. I remember the knock on him about tackling 5 yards down the field. with wanny's style of kind of holding back and not blitzing, i think he'd still be making tackles down field.

who knows. he's gone now and he's definitely too old to bring back now.

[bf1]

At least he's around the ball. I swear sometimes I have trouble noticing any #50s on defense.

[OpIv37]

i'm not sure. clealry the guy can still play, but do you trust hte bills to utilize him correctly. I remember the knock on him about tackling 5 yards down the field. with wanny's style of kind of holding back and not blitzing, i think he'd still be making tackles down field.

who knows. he's gone now and he's definitely too old to bring back now.

He has good enough instincts that I think he would still be an improvement, even with Wanny's dumb scheme holding him back.

But you are right- he's too old to come back. He'll play another year or two then hang 'em up.

[stuckincincy]

i'm not sure. clealry the guy can still play, but do you trust hte bills to utilize him correctly. I remember the knock on him about tackling 5 yards down the field. with wanny's style of kind of holding back and not blitzing, i think he'd still be making tackles down field.

who knows. he's gone now and he's definitely too old to bring back now.

The MLB position has several responsibilities. Often, calling the defense alignment as the offense changes. Covering the passes in the flat. Backstopping holes in the DL when a back squirts through.

Having a MLB rush to push in behind the DL most of the time to get that 3 or 2 or 1 yard run stop can get you fried in the pass game. For years, teams send in outside LBs in to try for the passer. Any MLB that stops the run after 5 yds, and also peels off in pass coverage, is a good one.

[Mr. Pink]

The MLB position has several responsibilities. Often, calling the defense alignment as the offense changes. Covering the passes in the flat. Backstopping holes in the DL when a back squirts through.

Having a MLB rush to push in behind the DL most of the time to get that 3 or 2 or 1 yard run stop can get you fried in the pass game. For years, teams send in outside LBs in to try for the passer. Any MLB that stops the run after 5 yds, and also peels off in pass coverage, is a good one.

Also if your MLB is rushing in to try to stop a run at the line and then gets swallowed up by a blocker, the next guy that can tackle the RB is 20 yards downfield instead of 5.

[The King]

Big difference between Poz and Fletcher is Fletch wanted to stay we didnt even make him an offer. Poz wanted big cash and he knew that wasn't here.

[SABURZFAN]

Fletcher was let go generally with the fans happy to see him go.

Because somewhere along the way people started to think he sucked because he wasn't Ray Lewis, and him leading the league in tackles (or close to it) meant nothing because he wasn't killing people in his limo and dumping... wait... no... i mean killing RBs in the hole or that most of his tackles were junk because most weren't behind the LOS.


since when did the FO start caring what the fans thought? it was just ANOTHER bad decision that they made.

[Ingtar33]

Opt to not sign a lights out player who wants to be here. To create a hole and be forced to draft his replacement. It's impossible to build when you create holes.

Bingo. The bills have been doing this for a decade. Just as they fix one hole they make 2 more. It's baffeling.

[bf1]

NFL Network had him on sounds of the game (or whatever). Man o man do I miss him. He's intense and positive.

[Mr. Magoo]

I was upset when Fletcher left, but we can't forget TKO either. They both still produced when they left Blo.

[Mr. Pink]

You still ignored Jauron and one year still affects POz's nos. especially when you bring up what POz did HERE.


I got two words for this. D'Qwell Jackson.

Now your entire Dick Jauron conservative defense made Poz look like crap argument is done.

[The King]

I was upset when Fletcher left, but we can't forget TKO either. They both still produced when they left Blo.

It Takeo quite some time to regain his explosiveness. Basically when he landed in SF. I think moving him was the right call.

[justasportsfan]

I got two words for this. D'Qwell Jackson.

Now your entire Dick Jauron conservative defense made Poz look like crap argument is done.




Apples and oranges . Dick isn't the HC of the browns. I'm pretty sure he takes orders from Shurmur/Holmgren and most likely told not to play not to lose.

It was clear that the bills D played better when Fewell took over the team.

[stuckincincy]

Apples and oranges . Dick isn't the HC of the browns. I'm pretty sure he takes orders from Shurmur/Holmgren and most likely told not to play not to lose.

It was clear that the bills D played better when Fewell took over the team.

And Fewell as DC with NYG has a ring...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Fewell

[ParanoidAndroid]

I know, beating a dead horse.

But watching this guy kills me. We never should have let him go. LB is clearly our biggest weakness, and the guy can STILL flat-out play, even in his mid-30's.

Talent evaluation fails the Bills yet again...

Yet again.... because we keep talking about the same guys over and over.

[GingerP]

Apples and oranges . Dick isn't the HC of the browns. I'm pretty sure he takes orders from Shurmur/Holmgren and most likely told not to play not to lose.

He was Head Coach of the Bears and coached Brian Urlacher through 2003. If Jauron's defense made Poz look bad, why did it not for Urlacher?

[OpIv37]

Yet again.... because we keep talking about the same guys over and over.

We keep talking about it because the problem still hasn't been resolved and it still gets shoved in our face every weekend. Every week, we suck at LB and and every week, Fletcher plays well..... hmmmmm.....

[HAMMER]

We keep talking about it because the problem still hasn't been resolved and it still gets shoved in our face every weekend. Every week, we suck at LB and and every week, Fletcher plays well..... hmmmmm.....

You're like a spurned ex-girlfriend, get over it.

[The King]

And Fewell as DC with NYG has a ring...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Fewell x2

[justasportsfan]

He was Head Coach of the Bears and coached Brian Urlacher through 2003. If Jauron's defense made Poz look bad, why did it not for Urlacher?

Urlacher is Urlacher. He would have been a stud no matter where he went. In this case, the talent made the coach look good. Look at Dicks history of defenses, Wanny's looks better .

[OpIv37]

You're like a spurned ex-girlfriend, get over it.

Get over what?

We still suck. I'll "get over it" if we ever stop sucking.

People get mad when things are repeated on this board, yet, the same problems and the same bad things are happening over and over and over.... stop shooting the messenger.

[DraftBoy]

No move was as bad as just letting Winfield walk away.

[justasportsfan]

No move was as bad as just letting Winfield walk away.

Pat Williams

[DraftBoy]

Pat Williams

Let me repeat, no move was as bad as just letting Winfield walk away.

[The King]

Let me repeat, no move was as bad as just letting Winfield walk away.

Losman was.

[Mr. Pink]

Losman was.

Easily the worst decision this franchise has made on the field during the playoff drought.

[gr8slayer]

He left Buffalo after getting older with multiple injuries, anonmolies do happen.

Sarcasm?

[The King]

Easily the worst decision this franchise has made on the field during the playoff drought.
Simply because it set us back 4 years.