Have never seen Gailey like this before... dejected. Other musings.

[X-Era]

His presser was bad. He looked so dejected. That douche Sully ripped him and he had no comebacks and just basically took it. He really didn't provide any legit arguments to the 34 yard non-FG, or keeping CJ off the field. Really seemed to have just given up. Such a stark contrast that I almost wonder if Nix already told him he's gone or something.

Before we go nuts with this every HC we've had since Levy has had pressers like that and Gailey has been refreshing with his staunch hard nosed football attitude. But this was a different Gailey today.

I still want him to stay on another year because I'm not convinced we have the ability to hire anyone significantly better. But, this didn't help his case with me. Upgrade the LB'ers and starting QB and this team is two games better right now at least IMO; and that's with Gailey.

I think I'd like to move Freddie. He's lost a step, he's developed a fumbling problem, he isn't showing the vision or getting the yards. I think I'd like a big rookie. Trade him.

Also, this team really needs a vet CB. When the game is on the line the youngsters look young.

Fitz has no business being are starter next year. He likely will be because we will draft a rookie who won't be ready. But that doesn't make Fitz a legit starting QB.

[kingJofNYC]

Hard nosed football attitude, what in the world?

Are you talking about the Chan Gailey who coaches the Buffalo Bills? Guy talks about hard nosed football, but he's softer than Chamin. That's all Gailey is, empty talk. He talks about playing hard, but his team rarely does.

Of course he's dejected, easiest schedule and still couldn't improve in year 3, ****ing pathetic, even he realizes how awful the season has been.

Who's going to trade for Fred Jackson? You want to keep Nix and Gailey around, the same guys who give Fred more touches than their best player, the same guys who traded a young running back for two 4ths, the same guys who extended him, you want to trade him, but keep the morons who put us in this position. Totally makes sense....

[X-Era]

Hard nosed football attitude, what in the world?

Are you talking about the Chan Gailey who coaches the Buffalo Bills? Guy talks about hard nosed football, but he's softer than Chamin. That's all Gailey is, empty talk. He talks about playing hard, but his team rarely does.

Of course he's dejected, easiest schedule and still couldn't improve in year 3, ****ing pathetic, even he realizes how awful the season has been.

Who's going to trade for Fred Jackson? You want to keep Nix and Gailey around, the same guys who give Fred more touches than their best player, the same guys who traded a young running back for two 4ths, the same guys who extended him, you want to trade him, but keep the morons who put us in this position. Totally makes sense....
Change for the sake of change does not make sense. There isn't an ounce of logic in that. If it's an upgrade fine. But, changing HC and GM means all new playbooks, all new schemes, all new staff, many players are released, many years are needed to get the new players to fit the new schemes, and all to probably end up right about where we are now 2 years from now.

Gailey isn't a HOF HC, nor is he a SB winner. We have zero shot at landing a HC like that; let's face the facts.

So what we end up hiring next is just about the same as what we have now. What's the point? We might as well just change the players that need replacing with upgrades and see where that can lead. Upgrading players is doable. Upgrading to a HOF or big name HC is not.

As for Freddie, you trade him for whatever the best offer is if for nothing else to keep him from hitting the market and becoming a Pat.

[Skooby]

Twice the pride, double the fall.

[Mr. Pink]

Gailey isn't a HOF HC, nor is he a SB winner. We have zero shot at landing a HC like that; let's face the facts.

So what we end up hiring next is just about the same as what we have now. What's the point? We might as well just change the players that need replacing with upgrades and see where that can lead. Upgrading players is doable. Upgrading to a HOF or big name HC is not.

As for Freddie, you trade him for whatever the best offer is if for nothing else to keep him from hitting the market and becoming a Pat.

First sentence is completely false. Brian Billick lobbied to get an interview 3 years ago, we were too good for him. SB Winner.

Second comment is the typical Bills defeatist attitude that allows Ralph and Russ to go status quo, which means we never have to really improve because people don't think it's possible so why even try.

Third sentence, Fred Jackson might get a 6th round pick at this point. There's more value keeping him than getting a 6th round pick.

[X-Era]

Twice the pride, double the fall.Double the fall? His record is just about the same as his predecessors since Levy.

[kingJofNYC]

Change for the sake of change does not make sense. There isn't an ounce of logic in that. If it's an upgrade fine. But, changing HC and GM means all new playbooks, all new schemes, all new staff, many players are released, many years are needed to get the new players to fit the new schemes, and all to probably end up right about where we are now 2 years from now.

Gailey isn't a HOF HC, nor is he a SB winner. We have zero shot at landing a HC like that; let's face the facts.

So what we end up hiring next is just about the same as what we have now. What's the point? We might as well just change the players that need replacing with upgrades and see where that can lead. Upgrading players is doable. Upgrading to a HOF or big name HC is not.

As for Freddie, you trade him for whatever the best offer is if for nothing else to keep him from hitting the market and becoming a Pat.

Freds going to hit what market, he isn't a free agent, we gave him an extension remember? Won't be a Pat unless you trade him to the Pats, and if he's so washed up why would you care about the Pats obtaining him?

We're not changing for the sake of change, we're changing because the people in charge are ****ing idiots. 3 years, no improvement at all, yet you expect them to be better in year 4 when they haven't demonstrated an ounce of competency in the last three years. So explain to me how I'm the one lacking logic. I want to get rid of people who have failed to deliver, they haven't lived up to their own words. You want to keep them around in hopes that they turn it around in year 4. I'm basing my decision on 3 years of absolute failure, you're relying on hope.

[Skooby]

Double the fall? His record is just about the same as his predecessors since Levy.

It's deeper than than man, Sith stuff.

[X-Era]

First sentence is completely false. Brian Billick lobbied to get an interview 3 years ago, we were too good for him. SB Winner.

Second comment is the typical Bills defeatist attitude that allows Ralph and Russ to go status quo, which means we never have to really improve because people don't think it's possible so why even try.

Third sentence, Fred Jackson might get a 6th round pick at this point. There's more value keeping him than getting a 6th round pick.Show me proof that Billick lobbied. I wtached closely like everyone else and never saw that. The best we ever got was an admission that we would be surprised by who called which came from Nix.

Wrong. Upgrading Fitz is not status quo. Status quo would be to stick with a sub-par starter at QB. Getting a legit playoff caliber QB is not status quo. Sticking with your HC past 3 years is also not status quo. It's in fact the opposite. It;s what we haven't done since Levy. It's worth a try and IMO is the shorter route to the playoffs than starting all over and guaranteeing at least 2 years to see what we end up with.

Freddie has lost a step, fumbles, doesn't have the same vision anymore, and isn;t getting the yards. A big rookie could do that and possibly more with fresher legs.

[Mr. Pink]

Double the fall? His record is just about the same as his predecessors since Levy.

Williams 17-31 .354
Mularkey 14-18 .438
Jauron 24-33 .421
Gailey 15-30 .333

17-31 got Gregg fired...that's what Gailey will be, at best, in 3 weeks.

Worst coach since Levy, without question.

[kingJofNYC]

Billick lobbies for every coaching vacancy, the guy would take the job in a heartbeat, doesn't mean I actually want him coaching the team but it's pretty much a known that Billick will take just about any job at this point.

Man, those coaching records.....****ing pathetic.

[TrEd FTW]

Show me proof that Billick lobbied. I wtached closely like everyone else and never saw that. The best we ever got was an admission that we would be surprised by who called which came from Nix.

Here's your proof:


Billick also wanted to be the Bills' head coach but couldn't procure an interview, much less an offer.

"I just wanted to make sure I was clear that [Bills general manager Buddy Nix] had not called," Billick told reporter Aaron Saykin of Buffalo NBC affiliate WGRZ. "Why he had not called a coach with a Super Bowl ring, 10 wins a year for nine years, having orchestrated the highest-scoring offense and defense in the history of the league, is a question worth asking. But I never spoke with Mr. Nix."


http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/9525/billick-baffled-by-bills-lack-of-interest

[Mr. Pink]

Show me proof that Billick lobbied. I wtached closely like everyone else and never saw that. The best we ever got was an admission that we would be surprised by who called which came from Nix.

Wrong. Upgrading Fitz is not status quo. Status quo would be to stick with a sub-par starter at QB. Getting a legit playoff caliber QB is not status quo. Sticking with your HC past 3 years is also not status quo. It's in fact the opposite. It;s what we haven't done since Levy. It's worth a try and IMO is the shorter route to the playoffs than starting all over and guaranteeing at least 2 years to see what we end up with.

Freddie has lost a step, fumbles, doesn't have the same vision anymore, and isn;t getting the yards. A big rookie could do that and possibly more with fresher legs.

It's been stated that Billick had interest numerous times. Schottenheimer had interest also. Marty isn't a SB coach though so we shouldn't bother going after him based on your point.

What QB are we gonna get? Tony Romo? Mike Vick? 2nd or 3rd round pick? The first 2 choices at this point are no different than Fitz. Romo folds when the game is on the line just like Fitz and Vick might actually be worse at this point in his career. Dude has turned into a turnover machine. 2nd or 3rd round pick? Meh. You could get a Russell Wilson or you could get a Trent Edwards.

A 6th round pick, more likely than not, doesn't even make the roster. So you go into next year with Choice as your backup. Now if you think Choice is garbage, many around here do, then you've created a hole and need to draft/sign a backup RB to spell Spiller and to be your short yardage/goal line guy. Simply put, Fred Jackson provides more value than whatever you're gonna get in a trade for him at this point in his career.

[Mr. Pink]

Billick lobbies for every coaching vacancy, the guy would take the job in a heartbeat, doesn't mean I actually want him coaching the team but it's pretty much a known that Billick will take just about any job at this point.

Man, those coaching records.....****ing pathetic.

I'd take Billick over Gailey in a heart beat. Without question. No doubt.

But that shows the ineptitude of this front office not even giving him an interview and just handing the job to a proven bum in this league.

[X-Era]

Freds going to hit what market, he isn't a free agent, we gave him an extension remember? Won't be a Pat unless you trade him to the Pats, and if he's so washed up why would you care about the Pats obtaining him?

We're not changing for the sake of change, we're changing because the people in charge are ****ing idiots. 3 years, no improvement at all, yet you expect them to be better in year 4 when they haven't demonstrated an ounce of competency in the last three years. So explain to me how I'm the one lacking logic. I want to get rid of people who have failed to deliver, they haven't lived up to their own words. You want to keep them around in hopes that they turn it around in year 4. I'm basing my decision on 3 years of absolute failure, you're relying on hope.Freddie would be a FA if released. That's what I meant. I'd rather have a rookie as a backup and then we have no need for Fred. But if he's released the Pats could snap him up.

No, your change is just because your pissed... And that is for the sake of change. Better is the goal. Not new. New is not necessarily better. And. You fail to see the amount of detrimental change that would also occur in hopes of becoming positive change eventually... And our history shows that positive change never seems to come. Kill the Tampa 2, let's go to the 3-4... spend 2 years trying to build it, never get there, and scrap it and several players for an all new scheme that took over a half a season to get used to... It's a cycle. Just break the cycle. Upgrade the positions for the existing schemes, keep the players who have learned it and you may end up with quicker positive results.

Look at it this way, can you tell me right now that a legit playoff caliber QB would have lost the Titans and Pats game like Fitz did? Would a QB who manages the game and doesn't throw those picks have won? The answer is likely yes. And that means were at 6 losses and in the playoffs right now. And that says nothing for where we would be if we had a legit ILB and OLB. Our run D in those first 4 games would have been much better and could have led to a win or two there as well.

I believe a few legit upgrades on the roster puts this team in the playoff hunt right now.

[Goobylal]

There's a reason Billick hasn't been made a HC in the 5 years since he's left the game. And despite being an offensive coach, his offenses mostly stunk with the Ravens. The SB was all because of defense.

[X-Era]

Here's your proof:



http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/9525/billick-baffled-by-bills-lack-of-interest
And what was he asking to be paid? More than Ralph would spend?

We don't land those HC's period. We just don't. Money, lack of interest, whatever.

[TrEd FTW]

There's a reason Billick hasn't been made a HC in the 5 years since he's left the game. And despite being an offensive coach, his offenses mostly stunk with the Ravens. The SB was all because of defense.

Say what you want, but he'd still be a massive upgrade over Gailey. He's 80-53 lifetime with a Super Bowl ring and an ability to put a competent staff on the sideline with him.

[X-Era]

It's been stated that Billick had interest numerous times. Schottenheimer had interest also. Marty isn't a SB coach though so we shouldn't bother going after him based on your point.

What QB are we gonna get? Tony Romo? Mike Vick? 2nd or 3rd round pick? The first 2 choices at this point are no different than Fitz. Romo folds when the game is on the line just like Fitz and Vick might actually be worse at this point in his career. Dude has turned into a turnover machine. 2nd or 3rd round pick? Meh. You could get a Russell Wilson or you could get a Trent Edwards.

A 6th round pick, more likely than not, doesn't even make the roster. So you go into next year with Choice as your backup. Now if you think Choice is garbage, many around here do, then you've created a hole and need to draft/sign a backup RB to spell Spiller and to be your short yardage/goal line guy. Simply put, Fred Jackson provides more value than whatever you're gonna get in a trade for him at this point in his career.
I like Billick and would like him as a HC. He's an arrogant douche though and many in the league don't like him. Shotty I have no interest in. I think he is no better than Gailey. Sorry.

No. I disagree. If we get a legit QB, we get a legit QB. I understand that it isn't easy. But it is doable and must be done.

I didn't say we had to spend the 6th for Freddie on a RB. I'd take one earlier. I;d like a guy with young legs, a thick build, and someone that will hold on to the ball. I honestly don't feel replacing 2012's version of Freddie is all that hard.

[kingJofNYC]

Freddie would be a FA if released. That's what I meant. I'd rather have a rookie as a backup and then we have no need for Fred. But if he's released the Pats could snap him up.

No, your change is just because your pissed... And that is for the sake of change. Better is the goal. Not new. New is not necessarily better. And. You fail to see the amount of detrimental change that would also occur in hopes of becoming positive change eventually... And our history shows that positive change never seems to come. Kill the Tampa 2, let's go to the 3-4... spend 2 years trying to build it, never get there, and scrap it and several players for an all new scheme that took over a half a season to get used to... It's a cycle. Just break the cycle. Upgrade the positions for the existing schemes, keep the players who have learned it and you may end up with quicker positive results.

Look at it this way, can you tell me right now that a legit playoff caliber QB would have lost the Titans and Pats game like Fitz did? Would a QB who manages the game and doesn't throw those picks have won? The answer is likely yes. And that means were at 6 losses and in the playoffs right now. And that says nothing for where we would be if we had a legit ILB and OLB. Our run D in those first 4 games would have been much better and could have led to a win or two there as well.

I believe a few legit upgrades on the roster puts this team in the playoff hunt right now.

Fitz is terrible, no doubt, but why are you giving Gailey's inept coaching decisions a complete pass? It's all Fitz, but no mention of Chan, why is that?

Why is it that our HC has no clue what defense he wants to run, or about defense in general for that matter? Why does he waste/mismanage timeouts? Why does the team look incompetent during 2 minute drills? Why do we settle for 3 points when we're at midfield with two timeouts and 50+ seconds to go in the half? Why do we punt around the 35-37, on 4th and medium, when kicking a FG is obviously not an option? Why is the 15 or so yards we gain in field position more important than obtaining a first down and another series? Why do we keep our best player on the bench and give him the fewest touches?

Is that all on Fitz? Also, who relied on Fitz in the first place? Who backs Fitz as the starter? Who's in a position to actually request a QB via the draft?

Yeah, Fitz sucks, but Chan's the one who wants him here in the first place. You think Buddy Nix would've objected if Gailey stood up and asked him to take Wilson in the 3rd round, or Kaepernick/Dalton in the second? Gailey's the one who wants Fitz here.

[Goobylal]

Say what you want, but he'd still be a massive upgrade over Gailey. He's 80-53 lifetime with a Super Bowl ring and an ability to put a competent staff on the sideline with him.
It's mostly Ozzie Newsome.

[Mr. Pink]

I like Billick and would like him as a HC. He's an arrogant douche though and many in the league don't like him. Shotty I have no interest in. I think he is no better than Gailey. Sorry.

No. I disagree. If we get a legit QB, we get a legit QB. I understand that it isn't easy. But it is doable and must be done.

I didn't say we had to spend the 6th for Freddie on a RB. I'd take one earlier. I;d like a guy with young legs, a thick build, and someone that will hold on to the ball. I honestly don't feel replacing 2012's version of Freddie is all that hard.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Marty is no better than Gailey?!? Are you high? 33-43 Lifetime for Gailey which includes the Hall of Famers he inherited in Dallas and failed with vs 200-126-1. Just wow. Oh and wow.

WHO IS THIS LEGIT QB WE'RE GETTING? I listed what is going to be available to us. We're going into next year with Romo, Vick, 2nd or 3rd round pick or Fitz. Is any of that an upgrade over Fitz? Next year, none. Three years from now, maybe the drafted QB and maybe not.

If you trade or cut Freddie, you've created a hole. You need a backup RB. Outright cutting Freddie is outright idiotic. Trading him is just as idiotic as the value a 6th round pick is gonna bring to your team is less than the value Freddie brings.

[TrEd FTW]

Shotty I have no interest in. I think he is no better than Gailey. Sorry.

That's as ridiculous as it gets. Schottenheimer is sixth all time in wins and has a .613 winning percentage. The only guys ahead of him in total wins are Shula, Halas, Landry, Lambeau and Brown - all legendary coaches. Marty hasn't had much success in the playoffs, but how about the Bills actually get there for a change? Schottenheimer has shown time and again the ability to take teams to that level. Gailey is nowhere near his class, and putting him in the same company as a 200-game winner - someone who has helped lead three different franchises to the playoffs on several occasions each - is a joke.

[X-Era]

Here's just a quick example of a possible type of rookie RB replacement for Freddie as CJ's backup. From ESPN:

"Michigan State's Le'veon Bell (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/30218/le%27veon-bell) (Grade: 80)
Bell checks in at 6-2 and 242 pounds, and he has to prove to scouts he is quick enough to be productive at the NFL level. Backs his size can succeed in the NFL -- just look at Atlanta's 244-pound Michael Turner (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5679/michael-turner) -- but Bell's burst will be closely monitored during pre-draft workouts.
Still, Bell's size means he is tough to bring down. He can bounce off or power through would-be tacklers, and there's a lot to like about Bell's ability to exploit cutback lanes and bounce runs outside when necessary. It's his third-down ability that makes him an intriguing Day 2 prospect, though.
His size allows him to hold up well in pass protection, and he is an above average route-runner for his size with 76 career catches and the ability to line up in the slot at times."

Size, and an ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.

[kingJofNYC]

I think you're actually crazy. Lets waste more resources in the draft on running backs, when we don't even use CJ Spiller. Makes sense to me! You're looking for a backup when we don't even use our best running back. Think about that for a minute...

Problem isn't with the backup position, it's that WE DON'T USE OUR BEST PLAYER WHO HAPPENS TO BE A RUNNINGBACK!

[X-Era]

That's as ridiculous as it gets. Schottenheimer is sixth all time in wins and has a .613 winning percentage. The only guys ahead of him in total wins are Shula, Halas, Landry, Lambeau and Brown - all legendary coaches. Marty hasn't had much success in the playoffs, but how about the Bills actually get there for a change? Schottenheimer has shown time and again the ability to take teams to that level. Gailey is nowhere near his class, and putting him in the same company as a 200-game winner - someone who has helped lead three different franchises to the playoffs on several occasions each - is a joke.So he is not HOF, and has never won or been to a SB? Sounds a lot like the Cowboys version of Gailey. Or our version of Wade Phillips.

I don't consider going to the playoffs and losing the ultimate goal and you cannot tell me Shotty is a shoe in to take us to the SB or even that he has experience getting there.

[Goobylal]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Marty is no better than Gailey?!? Are you high? 33-43 Lifetime for Gailey which includes the Hall of Famers he inherited in Dallas and failed with vs 200-126-1. Just wow. Oh and wow.

WHO IS THIS LEGIT QB WE'RE GETTING? I listed what is going to be available to us. We're going into next year with Romo, Vick, 2nd or 3rd round pick or Fitz. Is any of that an upgrade over Fitz? Next year, none. Three years from now, maybe the drafted QB and maybe not.

If you trade or cut Freddie, you've created a hole. You need a backup RB. Outright cutting Freddie is outright idiotic. Trading him is just as idiotic as the value a 6th round pick is gonna bring to your team is less than the value Freddie brings.
Romo would be a major upgrade. As for Vick, no way!

As for Freddie, I think he's done. He's looked slow and has fumbled a lot, and suffered what appears to be a serious knee injury. But I wouldn't draft a RB high next year.

[X-Era]

I think you're actually crazy. Lets waste more resources in the draft on running backs, when we don't even use CJ Spiller. Makes sense to me! You're looking for a backup when we don't even use our best running back. Think about that for a minute...

Problem isn't with the backup position, it's that WE DON'T USE OUR BEST PLAYER WHO HAPPENS TO BE A RUNNINGBACK!
If you haven't noticed we are using Freddie and IMO it's costing us too much money without the production and now can lead to fumbles. I won't disagree that CJ should get the ball a lot more. But paying that much for a not so productive backup who has had the fumbles lately is not the best choice.

[TrEd FTW]

So he is not HOF, and has never won or been to a SB? Sounds a lot like the Cowboys version of Gailey. Or our version of Wade Phillips.

I don't consider going to the playoffs and losing the ultimate goal and you cannot tell me Shotty is a shoe in to take us to the SB or even that he has experience getting there.

You crawl before you can walk. The Bills haven't been to the playoffs since the '90s. That needs to be step one in any return to relevance. Schottenheimer, again, is miles and miles better than Gailey. Just look at their results. Look at Gailey's horrendous coaching every week. The display he put on today was one of the worst you'll ever see. Three years into his time with the Bills and he's actually regressing as a head coach. I guarantee if you put Schottenheimer in charge of the Bills, CJ Spiller wouldn't be getting the ball eight ****ing times.

[kingJofNYC]

If you haven't noticed we are using Freddie and IMO it's costing us too much money without the production and now can lead to fumbles. I won't disagree that CJ should get the ball a lot more. But paying that much for a not so productive backup who has had the fumbles lately is not the best choice.

The problem is that CJ is actually the backup and not Fred. Jackson had almost double the touches, who's the backup? So we should actually use our backup, CJ, a lot more.

[X-Era]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Marty is no better than Gailey?!? Are you high? 33-43 Lifetime for Gailey which includes the Hall of Famers he inherited in Dallas and failed with vs 200-126-1. Just wow. Oh and wow.

WHO IS THIS LEGIT QB WE'RE GETTING? I listed what is going to be available to us. We're going into next year with Romo, Vick, 2nd or 3rd round pick or Fitz. Is any of that an upgrade over Fitz? Next year, none. Three years from now, maybe the drafted QB and maybe not.

If you trade or cut Freddie, you've created a hole. You need a backup RB. Outright cutting Freddie is outright idiotic. Trading him is just as idiotic as the value a 6th round pick is gonna bring to your team is less than the value Freddie brings.Shotty is not someone we can count on day one to take us to the SB or even the playoffs. He isn't. And if he isn't, he isn't a significant enough upgrade. His winning record would be nice but unless he can guarantee us a playoff berth or a SB win he's not an upgrade.

[Mr. Pink]

Romo would be a major upgrade. As for Vick, no way!

As for Freddie, I think he's done. He's looked slow and has fumbled a lot, and suffered what appears to be a serious knee injury. But I wouldn't draft a RB high next year.

Romo and Fitz to me are interchangeable parts. Questionable decision making. Neither protect the football. Romo however can go out and win you a game here and there which Fitz obviously cannot.

I wouldn't draft a back period, even if Freddie was sent packing. Sign a middle tier FA as your short yardage back. I just think letting Freddie go makes no sense at this point. He's plenty good enough for short yardage and spelling Spiller. The problem is Gailey doesn't use him in that manner.

[X-Era]

The problem is that CJ is actually the backup and not Fred. Jackson had almost double the touches, who's the backup? So we should actually use our backup, CJ, a lot more.OK. We agree on that point. Now what? Keep an overpaid backup who's lost a step, seems to be getting injured more, can't get the yards anymore, and likes to fumble the ball?

[Mr. Pink]

Shotty is not someone we can count on day one to take us to the SB or even the playoffs. He isn't. And if he isn't, he isn't a significant enough upgrade. His winning record would be nice but unless he can guarantee us a playoff berth or a SB win he's not an upgrade.

Shotty has had 2 losing seasons in 20 years of coaching. 13 playoff appearances in those 20 years.

That's not an upgrade over the guy we have now who's on his way to 3 straight losing seasons?

[X-Era]

Romo and Fitz to me are interchangeable parts. Questionable decision making. Neither protect the football. Romo however can go out and win you a game here and there which Fitz obviously cannot.

I wouldn't draft a back period, even if Freddie was sent packing. Sign a middle tier FA as your short yardage back. I just think letting Freddie go makes no sense at this point. He's plenty good enough for short yardage and spelling Spiller. The problem is Gailey doesn't use him in that manner.Why in the hell would you not draft a RB? We need the next Tank Carder or John Potter so bad? No one is saying we should draft one early. I'm talking mid to late round pick.

[Mr. Pink]

OK. We agree on that point. Now what? Keep an overpaid backup who's lost a step, seems to be getting injured more, can't get the yards anymore, and likes to fumble the ball?

4ypc and 4 fumbles makes you unable to get the yards anymore and liking to fumble.

He does appear to have lost a step but that's meaningless when looking at his production.

[X-Era]

Shotty has had 2 losing seasons in 20 years of coaching. 13 playoff appearances in those 20 years.

That's not an upgrade over the guy we have now who's on his way to 3 straight losing seasons?
It could very well be an upgrade. But is it enough? Is Shotty the guy to lead us to the playoffs? Playoff wins? the SB? and a SB win?

And again, the million dollar question is whether we would actually hire him or not.

If this team doesn't want to hire a proven upgrade there isn't much point in making a change.

[Mr. Pink]

Why in the hell would you not draft a RB? We need the next Tank Carder or John Potter so bad? No one is saying we should draft one early. I'm talking mid to late round pick.

Why not?

We need a QB, 1 or 2 WRs, a RT, a backup C, 3 LBers, a CB or 2 and a SS. We have 6 draft picks, I think. And there's 11 needs I rattled off on the top of my head. You can make an argument for K too, since apparently he can't make 50 yarders.

Taking a RB with one of them would be an absolute waste.

[gebobs]

Change for the sake of change does not make sense.
Have you lost it? There are ample reasons to change. Gailey is inept. Keeping him on just delays the rebuilding that needs to be done.

[X-Era]

Fitz is terrible, no doubt, but why are you giving Gailey's inept coaching decisions a complete pass? It's all Fitz, but no mention of Chan, why is that?

Why is it that our HC has no clue what defense he wants to run, or about defense in general for that matter? Why does he waste/mismanage timeouts? Why does the team look incompetent during 2 minute drills? Why do we settle for 3 points when we're at midfield with two timeouts and 50+ seconds to go in the half? Why do we punt around the 35-37, on 4th and medium, when kicking a FG is obviously not an option? Why is the 15 or so yards we gain in field position more important than obtaining a first down and another series? Why do we keep our best player on the bench and give him the fewest touches?

Is that all on Fitz? Also, who relied on Fitz in the first place? Who backs Fitz as the starter? Who's in a position to actually request a QB via the draft?

Yeah, Fitz sucks, but Chan's the one who wants him here in the first place. You think Buddy Nix would've objected if Gailey stood up and asked him to take Wilson in the 3rd round, or Kaepernick/Dalton in the second? Gailey's the one who wants Fitz here.
I did not give Gailey a pass for this game. I was not impressed at all by his choices in this game. But, overall I think his game management in most games is fine.

However, He has done several things that I think are bad moves.
1) Sticking with Fitz. The end of last year proved Fitz was not worthy. But he also has no other real option.
2) Sticking with Freddie for so long. Many of us noted in preseason that Freddie had lost a step.

Personally, I like his attitude and approach. I like his offensive scheme. And I think a new DC to run a better version of the 4-3 would do us well. I think a legit ILB, legit competition to Fitz, and some other roster pieces will be what we need to get to the playoffs.

[Goobylal]

Romo and Fitz to me are interchangeable parts. Questionable decision making. Neither protect the football. Romo however can go out and win you a game here and there which Fitz obviously cannot.

I wouldn't draft a back period, even if Freddie was sent packing. Sign a middle tier FA as your short yardage back. I just think letting Freddie go makes no sense at this point. He's plenty good enough for short yardage and spelling Spiller. The problem is Gailey doesn't use him in that manner.
I doubt they let Freddie go, if he's healthy and recovered. I just don't see him coming back at his age, assuming this is a lig tear.

Shotty has had 2 losing seasons in 20 years of coaching. 13 playoff appearances in those 20 years.

That's not an upgrade over the guy we have now who's on his way to 3 straight losing seasons?
My question is, why has no one offered him a HC'ing job, along with Billick? I think he's a guy to get you to the playoffs, but you'll go nowhere once you're there. And while that's better than what we've had the past 13 years, I want a chacce in the playoffs.

[X-Era]

Have you lost it? There are ample reasons to change. Gailey is inept. Keeping him on just delays the rebuilding that needs to be done.
Rebuilding is what we have done since Levy. It has not worked. I don't know how fans can keep ignoring the reality that we have done just that over and over with the same results. This would be new. It's possible that he goes the route of Kubiak or Lewis. That would be the hope. I think it's worth another year to try that approach. Make the roster moves we need and see where we end up.

[BertSquirtgum]

Change for the sake of change does not make sense. There isn't an ounce of logic in that. If it's an upgrade fine. But, changing HC and GM means all new playbooks, all new schemes, all new staff, many players are released, many years are needed to get the new players to fit the new schemes, and all to probably end up right about where we are now 2 years from now.

Gailey isn't a HOF HC, nor is he a SB winner. We have zero shot at landing a HC like that; let's face the facts.

So what we end up hiring next is just about the same as what we have now. What's the point? We might as well just change the players that need replacing with upgrades and see where that can lead. Upgrading players is doable. Upgrading to a HOF or big name HC is not.

As for Freddie, you trade him for whatever the best offer is if for nothing else to keep him from hitting the market and becoming a Pat.

How exactly would he hit the market when he's signed until 2015? What the **** is wrong with you man? You used to be knowledgeable about this team. Now you make me sad reading your fan boy post about Gailey. So ****ing sad.

[X-Era]

My question is, why has no one offered him a HC'ing job, along with Billick? I think he's a guy to get you to the playoffs, but you'll go nowhere once you're there. And while that's better than what we've had the past 13 years, I want a chacce in the playoffs.
That's the other piece. The guys that are legit upgrades can choose between jobs and won't choose here. The rest are taking this job because they have no other choice... and that begs the question why?

[X-Era]

How exactly would he hit the market when he's signed until 2015? What the **** is wrong with you man? You used to be knowledgeable about this team. Now you make me sad reading your fan boy post about Gailey. So ****ing sad.
Relax.

On Freddie. Please re-read. I'm arguing to trade him. Not cut him. I'd rather go younger. Freddie is fading fast.

I'm far from a Gailey fan boy. What I am is looking at it as an option we haven't explored. And I honestly think if we can upgrade Fitz (which will not be easy regardless of whether we get a new HC or not), and upgrade ILB and OLB we will have a playoff roster.

[Mr. Pink]

Rebuilding is what we have done since Levy. It has not worked. I don't know how fans can keep ignoring the reality that we have done just that over and over with the same results. This would be new. It's possible that he goes the route of Kubiak or Lewis. That would be the hope. I think it's worth another year to try that approach. Make the roster moves we need and see where we end up.

I'll tell you now where we'll end up next year if Gailey is still on the sidelines, 5-11. Don't care about what magical roster moves we make to try and make this trainwreck better. Remember this post next year at this time when we're plodding along another wasted year if Gailey is still here.

There simply isn't a magical fix QB available. Gailey is an idiot with his gameplans and clock management. We play an absolutely brutal schedule. Third year in and we still absolutely suck against our division rivals.

[Mr. Pink]

Rebuilding is what we have done since Levy. It has not worked. I don't know how fans can keep ignoring the reality that we have done just that over and over with the same results. This would be new. It's possible that he goes the route of Kubiak or Lewis. That would be the hope. I think it's worth another year to try that approach. Make the roster moves we need and see where we end up.

We haven't done any rebuilding since Donahoe was run out of town.

Rebuilding is putting together pieces on a team that make the team better on the field on Sundays.

We're no better on the field, production wise, than we were in year 1 of Jauron.

Levy/Nix are also failures.

[X-Era]

I would not be surprised to see Gailey resign actually. The fans want him gone. The media is blasting him. The players may be against him. He's pretty old (60).

I could see it.

[X-Era]

Schotty has no interest in coaching again BTW:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/11/10/marty-schottenheimer-no-desire-to-coach-wasnt-in-kansas-city/1696675/

[Novacane]

I still want him to stay on another year because I'm not convinced we have the ability to hire anyone significantly better. But, this didn't help his case with me.

.\



That is a terrible reason for wanting to keep him. We may get worse so lets keep bad?

[X-Era]

\



That is a terrible reason for wanting to keep him. We may get worse so lets keep bad?Unfortunately yes.

[BertSquirtgum]

Anyone that would still defend Gailey after today is a fan boy.

[Mr. Pink]

I would not be surprised to see Gailey resign actually. The fans want him gone. The media is blasting him. The players may be against him. He's pretty old (60).

I could see it.

I don't think we could possibly be that lucky.

[X-Era]

Anyone that would still defend Gailey after today is a fan boy.
That's an ignorant post at best.

[Mr. Pink]

\



That is a terrible reason for wanting to keep him. We may get worse so lets keep bad?

Defeatist attitude fans suck. Sorry to X-Era. But the people who actually think like that deserve seeing this piss poor version of football we've put out there since 2005. Unfortunately for the rest of us, we're stuck with this crap too.

[X-Era]

Defeatist attitude fans suck. Sorry to X-Era. But the people who actually think like that deserve seeing this piss poor version of football we've put out there since 2005. Unfortunately for the rest of us, we're stuck with this crap too.Let's put it this way... If this team hires Bill Cowher or Gruden I will be stoked like everyone else.

[BLeonard]

Personally, I like his attitude and approach. I like his offensive scheme. And I think a new DC to run a better version of the 4-3 would do us well. I think a legit ILB, legit competition to Fitz, and some other roster pieces will be what we need to get to the playoffs.

So, very simple question here, specifically regarding the bolded...

Why is it that you only give Wannstedt one year with a brand new defensive scheme, yet, you're willing to give Gailey more than three years with his scheme?

I'm not a Wannstedt fan, by any means... But, Jesus Christ, it makes zero sense to say he should be fired after one year, yet you wanna continue with the same HC that's failed for three years running now.

If Gailey isn't smart enough to realize that you don't essentially bench your best offensive weapon (Spiller) in the 4th quarter of games, while letting Ryan Fitzpatrick throw the ball 30+ times, he's not smart enough to be my head coach.

This is now the second time in three weeks that, in the 4th quarter of a close game, Spiller was on the sidelines. The Bills lost both of those games (at Indy and Today).

Gailey and Nix drafted this guy because he was the "waterbug" that Gailey wanted. Now that he has him, he isn't even using him in the 4th quarters of close ballgames.

Pretty simple to me: Chan Gailey is an idiot, who can't even use his hand-picked talent correctly at critical times in the ballgame.

-Bill

[Novacane]

Unfortunately yes.


Gailey's a proven loser, I'll take my chances with the unknown.

[JoeMama]

Oh poor baby Chan Gailey looked sad at the presser.

Boo hoo hoo.

I guess he'll go home to his mansion, take a quick dip in his pool of money (ala Scrooge McDuck), and eat pork rinds on his front porch for the rest of his awesome life.

I hope he's miserable -- which he should be if he feels even a fraction of the frustration we feel as fans year in, year out.

Get this loser out of Buffalo.

He deserves our scorn for the horrible job he's done.

[Goobylal]

That's the other piece. The guys that are legit upgrades can choose between jobs and won't choose here. The rest are taking this job because they have no other choice... and that begs the question why?
Schotty actually expressed interest in coaching the Bills, as did Billick. They also expressed interest in other teams. No one wants them. And it's obvious why no name coaches want to coach in Buffalo.

Let's put it this way... If this team hires Bill Cowher or Gruden I will be stoked like everyone else.
Gruden is another Billick.

[BertSquirtgum]

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s379/bhurtgam/67656_524185210938904_1878269870_n.jpg

[ublinkwescore]

Why the hell do we not have Schottenheimer in here yet?

[mjt328]

Change for the sake of change does not make sense. There isn't an ounce of logic in that. If it's an upgrade fine. But, changing HC and GM means all new playbooks, all new schemes, all new staff, many players are released, many years are needed to get the new players to fit the new schemes, and all to probably end up right about where we are now 2 years from now.

Gailey isn't a HOF HC, nor is he a SB winner. We have zero shot at landing a HC like that; let's face the facts.

So what we end up hiring next is just about the same as what we have now. What's the point? We might as well just change the players that need replacing with upgrades and see where that can lead. Upgrading players is doable. Upgrading to a HOF or big name HC is not.

As for Freddie, you trade him for whatever the best offer is if for nothing else to keep him from hitting the market and becoming a Pat.

If we have no hope of landing a better coach than Gailey, I would prefer they just move the team.

[mjt328]

Rebuilding is what we have done since Levy. It has not worked. I don't know how fans can keep ignoring the reality that we have done just that over and over with the same results. This would be new. It's possible that he goes the route of Kubiak or Lewis. That would be the hope. I think it's worth another year to try that approach. Make the roster moves we need and see where we end up.

The problem is not rebuilding.

The problem is, when we fire one idiot coach... we turn around and hire another idiot coach.
The problem is, we change GMs and scouts... but we continue to draft college players who fail in the NFL.
The problem is, we haven't had a decent quarterback since Doug Flutie.

[BertSquirtgum]

If we have no hope of landing a better coach than Gailey, I would prefer they just move the team.

Horse****.

[pmoon6]

One problem is Buffalo itself. A decaying rustbelt town with little to do and ****ty weather. That's the national perception, deserved or not.

Another is Ralph Wilson. His reputation around the league is deserved. Historically, he has mistreated good coaches (Lou Saban, Chuck Knox, Wade Phillips) and GMs (Bill Polian, John Butler). His organization is seen as second rate so attracting top flight coaching, GM and even free agent talent is difficult. He got lucky with Levy, but that team was more about the talent we had. In my view, Ralph thinks he can hire a semi known guy, like Levy was at his hiring and succeed. It hasn't worked.

[kingJofNYC]

Horse****.

To be fair, he's kind of right. If we can't land a better coach than Gailey, what's the point in having a team? Pride? Having a team and watching them win 5/6 isn't enjoyable.

That said, we can definitely land a better coach if we had a better owner.

[X-Era]

The problem is not rebuilding.

The problem is, when we fire one idiot coach... we turn around and hire another idiot coach.
The problem is, we change GMs and scouts... but we continue to draft college players who fail in the NFL.
The problem is, we haven't had a decent quarterback since Doug Flutie.So that's the problem. The solution? Just keep doing it?

That's the core issue guys. You can't expect to do the same thing, hire the same sort of HC, but somehow get different results.

And as I said, upgrading the QB position may be easier and is probably necessary regardless of who the HC is.

[X-Era]

So, very simple question here, specifically regarding the bolded...

Why is it that you only give Wannstedt one year with a brand new defensive scheme, yet, you're willing to give Gailey more than three years with his scheme?

I'm not a Wannstedt fan, by any means... But, Jesus Christ, it makes zero sense to say he should be fired after one year, yet you wanna continue with the same HC that's failed for three years running now.

If Gailey isn't smart enough to realize that you don't essentially bench your best offensive weapon (Spiller) in the 4th quarter of games, while letting Ryan Fitzpatrick throw the ball 30+ times, he's not smart enough to be my head coach.

This is now the second time in three weeks that, in the 4th quarter of a close game, Spiller was on the sidelines. The Bills lost both of those games (at Indy and Today).

Gailey and Nix drafted this guy because he was the "waterbug" that Gailey wanted. Now that he has him, he isn't even using him in the 4th quarters of close ballgames.

Pretty simple to me: Chan Gailey is an idiot, who can't even use his hand-picked talent correctly at critical times in the ballgame.

-Bill
My reason for wanting Wanny gone is:



That his scheme does not protect the flat or the seems. Going into the season several of us identified the slot guys and faster TE's as being a weakness where they would be open and converting 3rd downs that way. Gronk and Welker showed us eaxactly that.
He refuses to blitz. Yes it's feast or famine but without it, QB's like Tom Brady sit back there and pick us apart.


Replacing him with a DC that will cover the flats and seems and blitz more gets us one more win at least. And that's without the ILB and OLB upgrades we also need.

As of late our defense has stepped up and played better. But, we also haven't played NE which uses Gronk and Welker the way they do. We have to have a DC that can defend against them.

As far as Gailey goes, I agree on some of the personnel mismanagement. But I'm not convinced we can hire someone that's much better. And blowing it up means 2 or 3 more years to get to right about where we are now.

[kishoph]

One problem is Buffalo itself. A decaying rustbelt town with little to do and ****ty weather. That's the national perception, deserved or not.

Another is Ralph Wilson. His reputation around the league is deserved. Historically, he has mistreated good coaches (Lou Saban, Chuck Knox, Wade Phillips) and GMs (Bill Polian, John Butler). His organization is seen as second rate so attracting top flight coaching, GM and even free agent talent is difficult. He got lucky with Levy, but that team was more about the talent we had. In my view, Ralph thinks he can hire a semi known guy, like Levy was at his hiring and succeed. It hasn't worked.

Do you really think that he has a bad reputation around the league ? I highly doubt it.

[streetkings01]

Hire Mike Zimmer as HC so he can bring in Hugh Jackson as OC. The pieces are in place for the defense. That would be on my Xmas list since we wont be getting a Cowher or Gruden. We need to play some AFC North ball in the AFC East instead of this spread em out college football Pac12 ball we love to play under Chan!

[trapezeus]

There's a reason Billick hasn't been made a HC in the 5 years since he's left the game. And despite being an offensive coach, his offenses mostly stunk with the Ravens. The SB was all because of defense.


and the GM of the ravens, his name escapes me this second, has consistently found talent. they may not have been to a superbowl in a while, but they didn't even have a fall when they got rid of billick.

billick really scares me. you are going to a guy for a name. even thought i didn't like mike shanahan, i would have accepted him ebcause he usually does everything. billick won't get you the talent. and the fact his teams were terrible on offense while that was his specialty scares me greatly. they had an unusually amazing defense in his tenure.

[gebobs]

and the GM of the ravens, his name escapes me this second, has consistently found talent.
Ozzie Newsome.

[trapezeus]

people should start realizing how much of a problem russ brandon is. his smithers routine to ralph's monty gig is so irritating.

this guy is corporate dead weight. he does nothing to help the team. he's an added layer of beuracracy and an impediment for a strong GM who has aspirations to be CEO of the team.

That's why nix is here. that's why a big name GM who knows what he's doing would never come. he's answering to someone way below him.

Keep gailey because russ is never going anywhere and he's the issue.

[pmoon6]

Ozzie Newsome.If you get a chance, there was a show on NFL Network about the 1995 Cleveland Browns, I think it was on "A Football Life", but not sure. Newsome started his post playing career in 1991 with Bill Belichick there. Anyway, pretty interesting stuff.

[streetkings01]

If you get a chance, there was a show on NFL Network about the 1995 Cleveland Browns, I think it was on "A Football Life", but not sure. Newsome started his post playing career in 1991 with Bill Belichick there. Anyway, pretty interesting stuff.
I saw that.........Belichick's staff he put together in Cleveland was insane. Everyone of then either became a HC or GM in the NFL. That Browns team would've won a Super Bowl if they didn't move

[Jeff1220]

Newsome is one of the great GMs of this generation. He hits consistently with high picks and makes mostly sound FA decisions. The Ravens have had, I think, 1 or 2 losing seasons in the past 12 years. The guy drafted Ogden, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Jamal Lewis, Preist Holmes, and on and on.
Most personnel decisions that Billick made (like Kyle Boller) set the team back. And his offenses stuggled.

[BertSquirtgum]

Gailey looks like ****.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s379/bhurtgam/gailey.jpg

[BLeonard]

Do you really think that he has a bad reputation around the league ? I highly doubt it.

I can't find the exact quote, but I recall reading about the Bills Toronto Series, an unnamed owner said something to the effect of "We'll see if he (Wilson) stops *****ing about being in a small market now."

To be honest, I don't think his rep around the league is that good. Look at it from their perspective. All's he's done is ***** and whine about being a "small market" team, while fielding ****ty teams, not spending to the cap, while pocketing revenue sharing cash and being one of the most profitable teams in the league.

-Bill

[Albany,n.y.]

Newsome is one of the great GMs of this generation. He hits consistently with high picks and makes mostly sound FA decisions. The Ravens have had, I think, 1 or 2 losing seasons in the past 12 years. The guy drafted Ogden, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Jamal Lewis, Preist Holmes, and on and on.
Most personnel decisions that Billick made (like Kyle Boller) set the team back. And his offenses stuggled.

I once did a 10 year comparison between the Bills picks & the Ravens picks. It was amazing how year after year the Ravens drafted lower than us & just outdrafted us. It wasn't just the 1st rounders, he found some real gems in the middle & late rounds.
If Newsome ever wants to leave Baltimore, the Bills should just hand him a blank check.

[Bill Cody]

This was a painful thread to read, sadly most are around here, nobody's fault:sad:

Shotty would have been a far more logical choice that a bum like Gailey, he actually has a track record of success in this league. But he's 69 now, that ship has sailed.

We need a QB. Until we have one I doubt we get a good coach. You need both to have a chance to win. We have neither. I expected great things from Andrew Luck and if anything he's been even better than I expected, future hall of fame player. RG III if he can stay helathy looks amazing also. Those franchises have hope. With have Fitz and Gailey.:tired: