A Fake Punt?

[pmoon6]

Up by 30 and the Bills had basically conceded the victory and Carroll calls a fake punt? I know Carroll probably has animosity for the Bills considering he coached two AFC East teams in the '90's, but that was just classless. It's too bad the NFL has too many PC league asskissers as coaches, but an old school coach would have taken that personally. If Mike Ditka or I were on the sideline, we would have told the defense to try to put out their key players if they had the chance. Pete Carroll wants to humiliate a team even more after they already had been humiliated, he deserves to have his playoff chances reduced by taking Russell Wilson, Lynch and some of his offensive linemen out. Of course, this is the new NFL where marquee players are overprotected and everyone doesn't rock the boat.

[Skooby]

We deserve to get rolled, we laid down to get F-Ed.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

Better to be completely embarrassed to get chan booted

[BillsOwnAll]

ehhh the old adage...dont like it...stopt them. This is pros not pee-wee.

[Crisis]

I don't really care about the fake punt and sportsmanship crap, but I'm all for any opportunity to trash on Carroll. He's a scumbag.

[JoeMama]

I've hated Pete Carroll ever since 1998 when Walt Coleman and Co. handed the Pats the game with a bogus interference call on a Hail Mary.

Wade Phillips thought it was total BS and made his players leave the field in protest.

It cuts to Carroll giggling on the sideline and motioning for his players to go for two.

Plus, he's just got one of those faces that begs to be punched. He looks like an aging lesbian.

[pmoon6]

ehhh the old adage...dont like it...stopt them. This is pros not pee-wee.A team is supposed to expect and be prepared for a fake punt in that situation? The old adage is bull**** anyway. Pete Carroll should have his ass kicked. Besides, we did stop them and they ran a trick play.

I wish I could travel more. I want to see Carroll in an airport and put him in the hospital. I'd be happy to do the time on the assault charge just to see his nose kissing his ear.

[JoeMama]

Also, if it's not running it up if your defense simply can't stop anything. I expect to be rolled when we can't stop basic plays.

But why trickery in the 4th quarter when you're up by 30 points?

That's done with the sole intention of humiliating your opponent.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

A team is supposed to expect and be prepared for a fake punt in that situation? The old adage is bull**** anyway. Pete Carroll should have his ass kicked.

I'm with u man. Stopping them is one thing. Bull**** trickery up 30 is just that.. bull****

[Mr. Pink]

I'm actually glad he went for the fake punt instead of kicking it. Gailey had BYRD back there as the return man. At least we didn't have to worry about our marquee defensive player having to get hit while trying to return a punt.

[jimmifli]

Also, if it's not running it up if your defense simply can't stop anything. I expect to be rolled when we can't stop basic plays.

But why trickery in the 4th quarter when you're up by 30 points?

That's done with the sole intention of humiliating your opponent.
I'm sure it's done in the name of making future opponents practice against it. It's probably an overzealous special teams coach lobbying a head coach that is enjoying the moment and not thinking.

But honestly, **** like that make players scared for their knees. It aint worth it, then again, we don't many men on the team.

[Jaybird]

who cares...... If I was a coach I would do the same thing. We are a terrible team, that is poorly coached

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Up by 30 and the Bills had basically conceded the victory and Carroll calls a fake punt? I know Carroll probably has animosity for the Bills considering he coached two AFC East teams in the '90's, but that was just classless. It's too bad the NFL has too many PC league asskissers as coaches, but an old school coach would have taken that personally. If Mike Ditka or I were on the sideline, we would have told the defense to try to put out their key players if they had the chance. Pete Carroll wants to humiliate a team even more after they already had been humiliated, he deserves to have his playoff chances reduced by taking Russell Wilson, Lynch and some of his offensive linemen out. Of course, this is the new NFL where marquee players are overprotected and everyone doesn't rock the boat.

Considering what the NFL did to Peyton and Williams, I'm not surprised a coach would be hesitant to intentionally send people to injure QBs. It's utter bs on the Hawks' part.

[pmoon6]

Considering what the NFL did to Peyton and Williams, I'm not surprised a coach would be hesitant to intentionally send people to injure QBs. It's utter bs on the Hawks' part.One of the many reasons why the NFL has become a joke. WWF in cleats.

[Fixxxer]

I don't have a problem with the call as I wouldn't have a problem if the opposing coach rips his head off while they shake hands at the end of the game.

[ThunderGun]

I thought it was hilarious.

[RandolphDuke]

I wish I could travel more. I want to see Carroll in an airport and put him in the hospital. I'd be happy to do the time on the assault charge just to see his nose kissing his ear.
Yeah, you would see Pete Carroll in the airport and your squeaky little voice would crack as you timidly force out "S-s-s-seahawks s-s-s-suck...." under your breath.

[imbondz]

I am a huge fan of rolling up the score in the NFL. it's the difference between teams that have a killer instinct and don't let up, and want to crush teams, and teams that spend 13 years w/o a playoff appearance.

43-17 or 50-17 does it really matter.

[DynaPaul]

Pete is a douche. What do you expect from him?

[MikeInRoch]

If nothing else, he is costing future opponents time to prepare for it. It was a fine play call.

[trapezeus]

it's idiotic because you are putting out film on one of your fake kicks...something you might want in your arsenal later. they'll go out in the first round. they are a poorly coached team. his trading of draft picks is going to catch up with them.

That being said, good. embarass the bills. that's the only way we lost jauron was because we got flicked off.

[Albany,n.y.]

Carroll pantsed Gailey on that play. Considering how many coaches have pantsed Gailey, when he isn't doing it himself, it's time for Gailey to quit coaching in order to play the lead in the latest revival of "The Full Monty"
Blaming Carroll is like blaming the cat for killing the mouse.

[ThunderGun]

it's idiotic because you are putting out film on one of your fake kicks...something you might want in your arsenal later. they'll go out in the first round. they are a poorly coached team. his trading of draft picks is going to catch up with them.

That being said, good. embarass the bills. that's the only way we lost jauron was because we got flicked off.

Agreed.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching to them embarrass our sorry-ass football team. But I couldn't, and still don't understand why they would show their hand like that, in a meaningless part of the game. Bizarre.

[Albany,n.y.]

Agreed.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching to them embarrass our sorry-ass football team. But I couldn't, and still don't understand why they would show their hand like that, in a meaningless part of the game. Bizarre.
He showed nothing other teams can use, nothing bizzare other than embarrassing the Bills. Fake punts are usually devised after viewing something your opponent is doing on the films that makes them vulnerable to the fake punt. Carroll & his staff must have uncovered a weakness that indicated the Bills could be exploited. They probably practiced it this week & even though he was up by 30, Carroll just couldn't resist using something he thought he had a good chance of working. Since fake punts are customized to the opponent after seeing a weakness, he wasn't providing anyone with film they can use in the future-unless his opponent is as poorly coached & uses the same formations as the Bills do on their punt returns.

[Albany,n.y.]

Here's Jerry Sullivan's take on the fake punt:

There was some muttering about Pete Carroll calling a fake punt early in the fourth quarter with the Bills trailing, 47-17. People felt Seattle rubbed it in by calling a trick play in a blowout. You know, the sort of silliness you get in baseball when teams dare to steal bases with a big lead.

Come on, Gailey had Fitzpatrick on the field with five minutes left. Why can’t Seattle run a fake punt? These are grown men, professionals. Hey, stop the fake if you don’t like it. Show some real passion during the game if you have such an inflated sense of pride.

Really, the Bills had done a great job of humiliating themselves in Toronto. How could a fake punt make it any worse?

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121216/SPORTS/121219341/1004

[Night Train]

It doesn't offend me at all. If anything, it helped push Chan & Co. out the door. He's completely gutless.

[kishoph]

Caroll said he didn't call for the fake punt, but he didn't call not to use it. What ?



That being said, good. embarass the bills. that's the only way we lost jauron was because we got flicked off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/kishoph/finger.jpg

[Historian]

If nothing else, he is costing future opponents time to prepare for it. It was a fine play call.

I agree with Mike.

He runs it with absolutely no risk, in a blowout, so the teams he may face in the playoffs have to waste time preparing for it.

Brilliant.

[gebobs]

I said that if we had a coach with an ounce of self-respect, he would have thrown a pass to Chandler in the vicinity of Carroll and have him run that piece of **** over.

[pmoon6]

Yeah, you would see Pete Carroll in the airport and your squeaky little voice would crack as you timidly force out "S-s-s-seahawks s-s-s-suck...." under your breath.HaHaHa, good one. As a matter of fact, I have a booming low pitched voice. But, you're right, I would cringe at the feet of such a physically imposing guy like Pete Carroll. He looks like such a baaaadd man.

Thanks for the chuckle.

[mjt328]

I am a huge fan of rolling up the score in the NFL. it's the difference between teams that have a killer instinct and don't let up, and want to crush teams, and teams that spend 13 years w/o a playoff appearance.

43-17 or 50-17 does it really matter.

THANK YOU.

I wish people would just shut up about this "running up the score" crap.


Nothing disgusts me more than when a team gets a big lead, and then puts the brakes on. The fact that opponents actually EXPECT them to coast through the second half - that's even worse.
Last night, the Patriots almost came back from a 31-3 deficit in the mid third quarter.
Our team once came back from 35-3 in a playoff game.

People all over that stadium paid for 4 quarters/60 minutes of football from both teams.
The Bills gave them about 5 minutes of effort.
The least the Seahawks could do was make up for it.

[gebobs]

I wish people would just shut up about this "running up the score" crap.

It's not just that they ran the score up. It's the disrespect that it entails. Disrespect we deserve for sure and for that I blame Gailey, Nix and mostly the Cryptkeeper himself, Ralph Wilson.

But the fact remains that Pete Carroll is an enormous douchebag. From his choke sign for Stoyanovich back in '92 to his tenure at USC to yesterday's rubbing our noses in it.

[pmoon6]

Our team once came back from 35-3 in a playoff game.HaHaHa. Yeah, I remember that game. 3/4's of the stadium emptied a minute into the third quarter. The greatest fans on the face of the earth QUIT. That's why I always laugh when Bills' Fans start pumping their chests and say how great they are. And that was when we had a really good team, we see how it is now when we have a poor one. The tears fall down like rain. If they had a testicle check at Ralph Wilson, they would only identify 50 sets.

[pmoon6]

It's not just that they ran the score up. It's the disrespect that it entails. Disrespect we deserve for sure and for that I blame Gailey, Nix and mostly the Cryptkeeper himself, Ralph Wilson.

But the fact remains that Pete Carroll is an enormous douchebag. From his choke sign for Stoyanovich back in '92 to his tenure at USC to yesterday's rubbing our noses in it.He seemed more like a cheerleader than a head coach back then. I was waiting for him to completely come out of the closet with a short skirt and pompoms.

[justasportsfan]

Up by 30 and the Bills had basically conceded the victory and Carroll calls a fake punt? I know Carroll probably has animosity for the Bills considering he coached two AFC East teams in the '90's, but that was just classless. It's too bad the NFL has too many PC league asskissers as coaches, but an old school coach would have taken that personally. If Mike Ditka or I were on the sideline, we would have told the defense to try to put out their key players if they had the chance. Pete Carroll wants to humiliate a team even more after they already had been humiliated, he deserves to have his playoff chances reduced by taking Russell Wilson, Lynch and some of his offensive linemen out. Of course, this is the new NFL where marquee players are overprotected and everyone doesn't rock the boat.



you call it classless, I call it Killer instinct. Wish we had an ounce of that.

It was great to see Kyle Williams pissed on the sidelines. He should have taken Fitz head of when he threw his first pick.

[pmoon6]

you call it classless, I call it Killer instinct. Wish we had an ounce of that.

It was great to see Kyle Williams pissed on the sidelines. He should have taken Fitz head of when he threw his first pick.Bull****. They already had the game, the Bills were just going through the motions, hoping for a quick end to their misery. Anyone could tell they were beaten and this ********** piles it on with a gadget play. Killer instinct is when you pound the ball, run the clock to finish a game. It's not taking an opportunity to humiliate the opposition.

[SabreEleven]

Chan said something to Carroll after the game... I wonder if he brought up the fake punt. I doubt it because he is ball-less.

[pmoon6]

Pete Carroll on 'automatic' fake punt: 'I feel bad about this'


Pete Carroll was accused of running up the score when Seattle hung 58 on Arizona in Week 14. What the Seahawks did en route to that score was totally defensible though. Perhaps not this time around however: Carroll and the Seahawks ran a fake punt, when they were up 30 points, with 12 minutes left in a game Seattle won, 50-17.

And Carroll said afterward that he felt "bad" about pulling off the fake punt, even though it was an "automatic" for Seattle because of the formation Buffalo showed.

"I feel bad about this," Carroll said after the game. "I hear from the guys about the fake punt. That was part of our game plan. It was something I could have called off and I didn't. It was an automatic for us. It happened -- we were trying to make first downs ... It's unfortunate that it comes across like we're doing something wrong. That's my fault totally for not stopping it from happening."

That fake punt ended up leading to the Seahawks becoming the first team to score 50 points in back-to-back games for the first time since 1950. And, no, you won't see me breaking down their play-by-play hoping to prove that Seattle wasn't being a little aggressive this week.

more...http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21413874/pete-carroll-on-automatic-fake-punt-i-feel-bad-about-thisIt seems Carroll himself needed to explain (or try to excuse)

[justasportsfan]

Bull****. They already had the game, the Bills were just going through the motions, hoping for a quick end to their misery. Anyone could tell they were beaten and this ********** piles it on with a gadget play. Killer instinct is when you pound the ball, run the clock to finish a game. It's not taking an opportunity to humiliate the opposition.

You are complaining a bout a team stepping on our throats. Well if we had that instinct you wouldn't be complaining about that to begin with.

I don't care if they had the game. If you can't stand the heat, get out.

Besides, when is the best time to practice your plays? When you have a good enough lead.

- - - Updated - - -


It seems Carroll himself needed to explain (or try to excuse)

Don't care. If we lay down easily, we deserve to get stepped on.

[pmoon6]

You are complaining a bout a team stepping on our throats. Well if we had that instinct you wouldn't be complaining about that to begin with.

I don't care if they had the game. If you can't stand the heat, get out.

Besides, when is the best time to practice your plays? When you have a good enough lead.

- - - Updated - - -



Don't care. If we lay down easily, we deserve to get stepped on.If our coach did it, I would have been just as critical....and embarrassed.

[justasportsfan]

If our coach did it, I would have been just as critical....and embarrassed.

these guys are pro's. Take whats coming to you like a pro.

If you don't want to get knocked out , don't get in the ring!

[pmoon6]

You are complaining a bout a team stepping on our throats. Well if we had that instinct you wouldn't be complaining about that to begin with.

I don't care if they had the game. If you can't stand the heat, get out.

Besides, when is the best time to practice your plays? When you have a good enough lead.

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Don't care. If we lay down easily, we deserve to get stepped on.Maybe you and Pete can get a room and compare coaching notes....among other things.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe you and Pete can get a room and compare coaching notes....among other things.

the patriots always run up the score on you. That's what makes them great. We're soft and that's why we suck. If you like like sucking maybe you can get a room with Chan. And yes, I would like to take notes from someone who can rack up 50 points with a rookies qb.

[gebobs]

these guys are pro's. Take whats coming to you like a pro.
Apparently, you think sportsmanship ends at the college level.

It was a douchey move and far too prevalent in professional football now.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

For what it's worth, Chan Gailey ran a wildcat bomb pass on Kansas City last year while we were up by 36 points with 4:39 left

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109110kan.htm

[justasportsfan]

Apparently, you think sportsmanship ends at the college level.

It was a douchey move.

No, it's unsportsman if they did something illegal. If they cheated then that's being unsportsman.

Lets just say I won't cry about it. The players are pro's and not paid millions to cry about it.

[gebobs]

Lets just say I won't cry about it. The players are pro's and not paid millions to cry about it. Nothing illegal about what they did.
That's the essence of good sportsmanship. Not taking things to the limit of the rules at the expense of your opponent just because you can.

[pmoon6]

the patriots always run up the score on you. That's what makes them great. We're soft and that's why we suck. If you like like sucking maybe you can get a room with Chan. And yes, I would like to take notes from someone who can rack up 50 points with a rookies qb.Jesus. There is a big difference between running your regular offense, marching down the field and scoring. If Carroll would have done that, I wouldn't have had a problem. I wouldn't even had a problem with a flea flicker and long bomb. If we can't stop it, we deserved to be scored on.

The fact that fake punts are a rarity in the first place and not one person would expect a play like that with such a big lead is the problem. Wow, you sure fooled everybody Pete.

From the comments I've read here and other places, it seems that coaches like Carroll aren't the only ones who lack class.

[justasportsfan]

Jesus. There is a big difference between running your regular offense, marching down the field and scoring. If Carroll would have done that, I wouldn't have had a problem. I wouldn't even had a problem with a flea flicker and long bomb. If we can't stop it, we deserved to be scored on.

The fact that fake punts are a rarity in the first place and not one person would expect a play like that with such a big lead is the problem. Wow, you sure fooled everybody Pete.

From the comments I've read here and other places, it seems that coaches like Carroll aren't the only ones who lack class.

if you hang around like a punching bag, don't get mad if people practice punching you.

Again, the payers are pro's. Don't cry and take it like a pro.

[justasportsfan]

That's the essence of good sportsmanship. Not taking things to the limit of the rules at the expense of your opponent just because you can.

I agree to some degree . But don't get mad if you allowed us to run some plays that we needed to run. If you open a door for us , don't get mad if we accept the invitation to enter.

[justasportsfan]

For what it's worth, Chan Gailey ran a wildcat bomb pass on Kansas City last year while we were up by 36 points with 4:39 left

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201109110kan.htm

Boom, there it is.

[gebobs]

I agree to some degree . But don't get mad if you allowed us to run some plays that we needed to run. If you open a door for us , don't get mad if we accept the invitation to enter.
I'm not mad at Carroll all. I'm just saying it shows what a douchebag he is. He has always been a douchebag. I knew tools like him in high school. I wasn't mad at them. I just didn't like them. What he did was disrespectful, but that's what jagoffs like Carroll do. I'm no more mad at him for doing it than I am mad at a puppy for peeing on my rug.

The only people I am mad at are the Buffalo Bills for allowing these teams to disrespect us. Wilson most of all. I hope he dies. I do. I hope he dies and demons from hell drag his black heart to hell.

[gebobs]

No, it's unsportsman if they did something illegal. If they cheated then that's being unsportsman.

No. That's only one aspect of sportsmanship.

Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors.

[justasportsfan]

I'm not mad at Carroll all. I'm just saying it shows what a douchebag he is. He has always been a douchebag. I knew tools like him in high school. I wasn't mad at them. I just didn't like them. What he did was disrespectful, but that's what jagoffs like Carroll do. I'm no more mad at him for doing it than I am mad at a puppy for peeing on my rug.

The only people I am mad at are the Buffalo Bills for allowing these teams to disrespect us. Wilson most of all. I hope he dies. I do. I hope he dies and demons from hell drag his black heart to hell.

Maybe being a douche is what it takes to succeed in the NFL. Carol said he told his team in half time he wanted TO's. He got them. Our team can't do what our coaches tell them to do because our coaches don't know how t fire up the team.

Kelly, Marino, even Doug Flutie were douches. A team inherits the character of their leaders. This is why we are soft because Chan and Fitz have soft personalities.


You'll have the occasional nice guys like Dungy but in a voilent game, you got to have an attitude.

- - - Updated - - -


No. That's only one aspect of sportsmanship.

Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors.

no problem with the definition. But take it like a man if you allow someone to walk all over you. Besides, I don't think it was personal.

[pmoon6]

Maybe being a douche is what it takes to succeed in the NFL. Carol said he told his team in half time he wanted TO's. He got them. Our team can't do what our coaches tell them to do because our coaches don't know how t fire up the team.

Kelly, Marino, even Doug Flutie were douches. A team inherits the character of their leaders. This is why we are soft because Chan and Fitz have soft personalities.


You'll have the occasional nice guys like Dungy but in a voilent game, you got to have an attitude.

- - - Updated - - -



no problem with the definition. But take it like a man if you allow someone to walk all over you. Besides, I don't think it was personal.I agree that the team lacks swagger and attitude. It was never more obvious in the Colts game with our offense. I knew then that Gailey would be fired at the end of the season and that's why I have said we need a fiery motivator next year. Unfortunately I think Wannstedt gets the job and he ain't it.

[justasportsfan]

I agree that the team lacks swagger and attitude. It was never more obvious in the Colts game with our offense. I knew then that Gailey would be fired at the end of the season and that's why I have said we need a fiery motivator next year. Unfortunately I think Wannstedt gets the job and he ain't it.

I never liked Wanny as a HC. Both he and Jauron run their teams to their grounds the longer they stay as HC. We can now add Chan to that list. They are all conservative and play not to lose. This is why I am not bothered by what Carol did. He made an aggressive call even when we were already down But to have a consistent aggressive team, you have to consistently make aggressive calls . Like I said, the pats do that all the time and that's what separates them from us. The bills tend to play hard when they are desperately behind. Fitz said it himself, "we don't have a killer instinct". Bills under Gailey doesn't know how to finish because they don't know how to play for 4 quarters. The seahawks showed us how to.

[trapezeus]

Maybe being a douche is what it takes to succeed in the NFL. Carol said he told his team in half time he wanted TO's. He got them. Our team can't do what our coaches tell them to do because our coaches don't know how t fire up the team.

Kelly, Marino, even Doug Flutie were douches. A team inherits the character of their leaders. This is why we are soft because Chan and Fitz have soft personalities.


You'll have the occasional nice guys like Dungy but in a voilent game, you got to have an attitude.

- - - Updated - - -



no problem with the definition. But take it like a man if you allow someone to walk all over you. Besides, I don't think it was personal.

i just think this attitude is part of society's problem. jerks are considered great and expected to go unchecked. then you find out they looted the treasury or took huge risks and no one stood up to it.

have some class. faking a punt inside 5 minutes shows little class. fine you can do it and you did. but those are things that usually come back to haunt you.

if they did it early 3rd and were killing off our spirit and showing that they won, great...great choice. but late, when everything is determined. i don't think you can close a 50-17 gap in 5 minuets even if you had pats jerseys on in the snow of playoff game.

[Mski]

there's a difference between what the Pats do, and what Seattle did... its one thing to put your Offense out there and say go ahead and stop us, its a completely other thing to run a trick play, in a situation that doesnt warrant it. If Carrol would have just put his offense out there on 4th down to go for it, it would have been fine... as to the Gailey running the wild cat play against the chiefs last year, that play was part of our normal offensive scheme.

[trapezeus]

chan was being a dick, but he was fired two years ago by the man standing on the other side of the sideline. he felt he was wronged. again, probably not the right thing to do there, but you see where its coming from .

i have no idea why pete carroll would hate anyone. he was gifted years in USC playing cupcake schedules, asking some of the best high school players to live in LA and get paid, and he escaped any negativity or harm from being complicite. the guy should be thankful the NFL gave him another shot when he was a proven loser.

R wilson is making him look good now, but he was slowly destroying the seahawks by trading all these picks for players who weren't working out. they might get to the playoffs, they might win a game, but then that's it...and then they'll stillbe short the tools to go from good to legitimate contender and that's where carroll will always fail you.

[justasportsfan]

i just think this attitude is part of society's problem. jerks are considered great and expected to go unchecked. then you find out they looted the treasury or took huge risks and no one stood up to it.

have some class. faking a punt inside 5 minutes shows little class. fine you can do it and you did. but those are things that usually come back to haunt you.

if they did it early 3rd and were killing off our spirit and showing that they won, great...great choice. but late, when everything is determined. i don't think you can close a 50-17 gap in 5 minuets even if you had pats jerseys on in the snow of playoff game.

You call it lack of class , I see it as CONSISTENTLY playing to win. Bills consistently let their foot off the pedal and see where it's gotten us.

[gebobs]

Maybe being a douche is what it takes to succeed in the NFL.
So we should just shut up and accept unsportsmanlike behavior because a few successful coaches are? No thanks.


no problem with the definition. But take it like a man if you allow someone to walk all over you.
Who's not "taking it like a man"?


Besides, I don't think it was personal.
Whether it's personal or not is not relevant.

When I coached hockey at Canisius High School, I didn't know all the all the other coaches. But if we got up on a team by 5+ goals by the 2nd period, we didn't pile it on. We would tell the players that they had to make 5 passes before shooting the puck. We would give more ice time to the younger players. We wouldn't play our first power play unit.

We respected the other coaches. Whether we knew them or not, we knew they were volunteering their time and making a contribution to high school athletics.

And that's what I would like to see from "professional" coaches. At one time, being a professional meant more than just that you were collecting a paycheck. Professionalism, at one time, implied some sense of integrity, sportsmanship, and dedication to the sport.

What Pete Carroll did, I'm sure he did because he wants to win. I'm sure he wants to win at whatever cost. But what do you get with that attitude? You get headhunters in New Orleans. You get spying in New England. You get payola for students at USC. You get players taking amphetamines and steroids just to keep up with the others doing the same. And you get fans who decry their critics that they need to stop crying.

Perhaps Grantland Rice would be considered quaint today if he said "It's not winning or losing, but how you play the game." Or even Lombardi who said: "Winning isn't everything. The will to win is everything."

What Carroll does, whether it's this crap or doing the choke on the sideline, doesn't elevate the game. It detracts from it. And football needs more elevation. It's devolving from sport into spectacle.

[justasportsfan]

there's a difference between what the Pats do, and what Seattle did...

both teams have killer instinct. Both teams don't play nice guys. I would trade to be where they are at .

[pmoon6]

chan was being a dick, but he was fired two years ago by the man standing on the other side of the sideline. he felt he was wronged. again, probably not the right thing to do there, but you see where its coming from .

i have no idea why pete carroll would hate anyone. he was gifted years in USC playing cupcake schedules, asking some of the best high school players to live in LA and get paid, and he escaped any negativity or harm from being complicite. the guy should be thankful the NFL gave him another shot when he was a proven loser.

R wilson is making him look good now, but he was slowly destroying the seahawks by trading all these picks for players who weren't working out. they might get to the playoffs, they might win a game, but then that's it...and then they'll stillbe short the tools to go from good to legitimate contender and that's where carroll will always fail you.I haven't read where Chan complained about it. I did, I thought it was low even for Pete Carroll.

I guess all Pete's apologists liked when Greg Shiano told his defense to crash the line on a kneel down. Teams are aware now, but the Giants were caught totally off guard. "This is the Pros, you play 'till the final gun". If this is da pros, why don't all the players comport themselves with professionalism off the field as well? Answer: Because as long as you play well on Sunday, most Fans don't even care if you're involved in a murder.

[justasportsfan]

So we should just shut up and accept unsportsmanlike behavior because a few successful coaches are? No thanks. we let them do that to us. It's not their fault.



Who's not "taking it like a man"? I was talking generally especially pro's. I remember when the bills players a few years ago were pissed that players from Pitts were laughing at our team. Well? Not PItts fault we sucked and didn't play hard.





When I coached hockey at Canisius High School, I didn't know all the all the other coaches. But if we got up on a team by 5+ goals by the 2nd period, we didn't pile it on. We would tell the players that they had to make 5 passes before shooting the puck. We would give more ice time to the younger players. We wouldn't play our first power play unit.

We respected the other coaches. Whether we knew them or not, we knew they were volunteering their time and making a contribution to high school athletics.

And that's what I would like to see from "professional" coaches. At one time, being a professional meant more than just that you were collecting a paycheck. Professionalism, at one time, implied some sense of integrity, sportsmanship, and dedication to the sport.

What Pete Carroll did, I'm sure he did because he wants to win. I'm sure he wants to win at whatever cost. But what do you get with that attitude? You get headhunters in New Orleans. You get spying in New England. You get payola for students at USC. You get players taking amphetamines and steroids just to keep up with the others doing the same. And you get fans who sanctimoniously decry critics that they need to stop crying.

Perhaps Grantland Rice would be considered quaint today if he said "It's not winning or losing, but how you play the game." Or even Lombardi who said: "Winning isn't everything. The will to win is everything."

What Carroll does, whether it's this crap or doing the choke on the sideline, doesn't elevate the game. It detracts from it. And football needs more elevation. It's devolving from sport into spectacle.

Apples and oranges. Your peers were volunteers whose livelihoods were dependent on winning sb's.

[justasportsfan]

I guess all Pete's apologists liked when Greg Shiano told his defense to crash the line on a kneel down. Teams are aware now, but the Giants were caught totally off guard. "This is the Pros, you play 'till the final gun". I didn't have a problem with that. The bucs were only 7 points behind and if there's a chance that you cause a turn over during the snap, you try.


If this is da pros, why don't all the players comport themselves with professionalism off the field as well? Answer: Because as long as you play well on Sunday, most Fans don't even care if you're involved in a murder. huh? I already stated that as long as they are not doing anything illegal based on game rules , I don't have a problem . How did this turn into murder?

[gebobs]

we let them do that to us. It's not their fault.
We may have let them do it to us, but they are responsible for their actions, aren't they?


Apples and oranges. Your peers were volunteers whose livelihoods were dependent on winning sb's.
And like I said, when winning at all cost is considered acceptable and sportsmanship takes a back seat, you live with the consequences that I mentioned.

There's good reason why we preach sportsmanship at the amateur level. And now it's more important than every when their sports role models have lost their own sense of it.

[gebobs]

So I just want to be clear here justasportsfan. You agree that what Carroll did was unsportsmanlike but that it takes a backseat to winning.

[gebobs]

I didn't have a problem with that. The bucs were only 7 points behind and if there's a chance that you cause a turn over during the snap, you try.
What if they were down 30 with 5 minutes left? Do you keep trying when your down 30 with 5 minutes to go? Or only when you're up?

[mjt328]

It's not just that they ran the score up. It's the disrespect that it entails.

Disrespect? That isn't disrespect.

Disrespect is a professional football team - with guys making millions of dollars per year - saying I QUIT midway through the 3rd quarter.
And then... EXPECTING the other team to do the same.

Hard working fans paid quite a bit of money to watch that game. (Not to mention those of us who paid for Sunday Ticket back at home).
Personally, I think those fans deserved to see both teams fight for 60 minutes.

[gebobs]

Disrespect? That isn't disrespect.
You don't think it was disrespectful of Carroll to do that? LOL...I don't even know if Carroll would agree with you.

If it's not disrespectful, is it unsportsmanlike? Do his actions represent any "sense of fellowship with his competitors" as we've already established the definition of the term to be?


Disrespect is a professional football team - with guys making millions of dollars per year - saying I QUIT midway through the 3rd quarter.If they did indeed quit, then I suppose that is a sort of disrespect. So? No one's saying the Bills are without fault here. Least not me. Wilson, Nix, and Gailey should all have their heads on spikes. Should have happened long ago.

[justasportsfan]

We may have let them do it to us, but they are responsible for their actions, aren't they?
so are we.


And like I said, when winning at all cost is considered acceptable and sportsmanship takes a back seat, you live with the consequences that I mentioned.

There's good reason why we preach sportsmanship at the amateur level. And now it's more important than every when their sports role models have lost their own sense of it.

teaching sportsmanship at the amateur level is right but in the pro ranks where it is your livelihood, playing to win as long as you are not cheating or not doing illegal is not a bad thing to keep your job.

[justasportsfan]

So I just want to be clear here justasportsfan. You agree that what Carroll did was unsportsmanlike but that it takes a backseat to winning.

na. It wasn't unsportsmanlike at the pro level. Have you heard anything from the bills about it? I haven't

[trapezeus]

You call it lack of class , I see it as CONSISTENTLY playing to win. Bills consistently let their foot off the pedal and see where it's gotten us.


play to win. in the last 5 minutes, i think you got a 24 pt lead or more, it's over. and if your back ups can't protect that, you still have a depth issue.

i honestly want my best guys healthy. i grind out the clock with the back ups and tell them, this is your chance to shine. its a brutal game, you may be a starter. best to get your mistakes in on a game that's already decided. show me you belong here.

it is not time to put your good guys in harms way.

and you'd have played to win. i'm not advocating that you come out in second half and pretend the game is over. but there is a natural feel to a game, and i know you know that moment when you know you've choked out the other team...it's about being perceptive and doing the right thing at the right moment.

yeah, if i coached the bills and we had a 50-17 lead, i'd be pulling out all the stops. but at the press conference, i wouldn't duck what i did. "yeah, we ran up the score. yeah, i enjoyed punching a classless team in the mouth. And the way the league is run, who knows who gets to beat them again since the refs will have their hankies out and goodell will do whatever he can to sooth the tears of the boston fans who a. don't know football and b. are fair weather fans. i liked shining a light on their rat hill and watching the vermin scatter. I'd do it again."

[justasportsfan]

What if they were down 30 with 5 minutes left? Do you keep trying when your down 30 with 5 minutes to go? Or only when you're up?

Now see, you changed what i was replying to but I'll bite. Should the bills have quit vs. the Oilers in the greatest comeback game?

If the other team was playing hard with their starters, yes. Whoever let's their guard down is asking to get knocked out.

[justasportsfan]

play to win. in the last 5 minutes, i think you got a 24 pt lead or more, it's over. and if your back ups can't protect that, you still have a depth issue." Did the bills bring in their 2nd unit at that point?


i honestly want my best guys healthy. i grind out the clock with the back ups and tell them, this is your chance to shine. its a brutal game, you may be a starter. best to get your mistakes in on a game that's already decided. show me you belong here. that's your choice. The pats don't do that with 5 mins left. Besides, if the seahawks punts what does it matter if it's the seahawks D or offense on the field?


it is not time to put your good guys in harms way.

and you'd have played to win. i'm not advocating that you come out in second half and pretend the game is over. but there is a natural feel to a game, and i know you know that moment when you know you've choked out the other team...it's about being perceptive and doing the right thing at the right moment.BB disagrees with you and I'm sure the oilers wish they didn't think like you.


yeah, if i coached the bills and we had a 50-17 lead, i'd be pulling out all the stops. but at the press conference, i wouldn't duck what i did. "yeah, we ran up the score. yeah, i enjoyed punching a classless team in the mouth. And the way the league is run, who knows who gets to beat them again since the refs will have their hankies out and goodell will do whatever he can to sooth the tears of the boston fans who a. don't know football and b. are fair weather fans. i liked shining a light on their rat hill and watching the vermin scatter. I'd do it again."

I didn't understand this part.

What you do as a HC is your choice but if you lay on the ground, don't complain that someone stepped on you.

[trapezeus]

Did the bills bring in their 2nd unit at that point?
that's your choice. The pats don't do that with 5 mins left. Besides, if the seahawks punts what does it matter if it's the seahawks D or offense on the field?
BB disagrees with you and I'm sure the oilers wish they didn't think like you.


naturally i made a mistake. i'm saying i would run the score on the pats and pretty much no one else. and i wouldn't duck the question like carroll did. "oh, it was an automatic thing, i didn't check out of it." man up and admit what you are doing. you can't have it both ways. you can't gloat in a running up the score event and then complain that you accidently did it.

i get revenge things like what i described if i had got a chance to run up the score on the pats or a team fired you. but when you are playing an out of conference game, on the road...i'd just take the win and go home happy that injuries are in check and that we are ready to play the next big game.




I didn't understand this part.

What you do as a HC is your choice but if you lay on the ground, don't complain that someone stepped on you.

[trapezeus]

Did the bills bring in their 2nd unit at that point?
that's your choice. The pats don't do that with 5 mins left. Besides, if the seahawks punts what does it matter if it's the seahawks D or offense on the field?
BB disagrees with you and I'm sure the oilers wish they didn't think like you.



I didn't understand this part.

What you do as a HC is your choice but if you lay on the ground, don't complain that someone stepped on you.

the oilers game, the bills scored, and then kicked an onside kick. instanteously that game felt different at that moment. that was still early/middle of the third. you just knew it was a game.

i don't think you are going to get a 24+pt come back with current rules in under 5 minutes. you'd need multiple onside kick recoveries in formations that don't make it beneficial to the team kicking it.

i'm not saying, come out in the second half saying it's over. quite the opposite. you keep going. if you are up 51-0 after one half, you play to score again. and you know when the other team just checks out and is defeated.

for the bills they did that during september in the jets game.

[gebobs]

na. It wasn't unsportsmanlike at the pro level.

I don't agree. Sportsmanship is an objective won strives for over and above all other considerations (e.g. money). It doesn't change. What changes apparently in your mind, is where it stands relative to winning, success, championships and, at the professional level, money. That is the antithesis of sportsmanship.

[justasportsfan]

the oilers game, the bills scored, and then kicked an onside kick. instanteously that game felt different at that moment. that was still early/middle of the third. you just knew it was a game.

i don't think you are going to get a 24+pt come back with current rules in under 5 minutes. you'd need multiple onside kick recoveries in formations that don't make it beneficial to the team kicking it.

i'm not saying, come out in the second half saying it's over. quite the opposite. you keep going. if you are up 51-0 after one half, you play to score again. and you know when the other team just checks out and is defeated.

for the bills they did that during september in the jets game.


but that still teaches you not to be complacent. The bills are suck because in hasn't been ingrained in them to play for 4 quarters. They don't play from whistle to whistle because they aren't trained that way.

[trapezeus]

i think you are making apples and oranges comparison.

its a game of momentum. and late in a game in a blow out, there is really nothing you can do.

it's not a hard rule. sometimes its even earlier. i didn't watch this game, but it seems like the bills just stopped caring.

and i'm not worried about hurting players and coaches feelings. i just think there isn't much to gain but negative press. an out of conference team with no rivalry? it's wierd. and karma pays that back.

but sometimes its worth paying the karma police if you have a bitter rivalry or a personal grudge. and you'll still get it in the end, but you'd have had some fun.

[gebobs]

I don't agree. Sportsmanship is an objective won
Eye hate awl homonyms.

[justasportsfan]

i think you are making apples and oranges comparison.

its a game of momentum. and late in a game in a blow out, there is really nothing you can do.

it's not a hard rule. sometimes its even earlier. i didn't watch this game, but it seems like the bills just stopped caring.

and i'm not worried about hurting players and coaches feelings. i just think there isn't much to gain but negative press. an out of conference team with no rivalry? it's wierd. and karma pays that back.

but sometimes its worth paying the karma police if you have a bitter rivalry or a personal grudge. and you'll still get it in the end, but you'd have had some fun.


eh! You play from whistle to whistle. That takes practice and consistent attitude. If the bills allowed the seahawks to use them as a practice, then so be it. I have no problem with it. You call it classless, I say the bills asked for it.

[gebobs]

You call it classless, I say the bills asked for it.
Why is it one or the other? It's classless either way.

[justasportsfan]

I don't agree. Sportsmanship is an objective won strives for over and above all other considerations (e.g. money). It doesn't change. What changes apparently in your mind, is where it stands relative to winning, success, championships and, at the professional level, money. That is the antithesis of sportsmanship.

If the bills had sat their starters at that point. then I would admit it was classless. They didn't.

[Albany,n.y.]

HaHaHa. Yeah, I remember that game. 3/4's of the stadium emptied a minute into the third quarter. The greatest fans on the face of the earth QUIT. That's why I always laugh when Bills' Fans start pumping their chests and say how great they are. And that was when we had a really good team, we see how it is now when we have a poor one. The tears fall down like rain. If they had a testicle check at Ralph Wilson, they would only identify 50 sets.
Please don't make stuff up. While some people left, saying 3/4 of the stadium emptied is ridiculous. My guess is 10-15% left, not 75%.
By the way, going back to your guess in the thread starter why Carroll might not like the Bills-it probably has more to do with the Bills letting him go after 1 season as an assistant coach (1984) than coaching for division rivals. I'm amazed that nobody remembers Carroll's time with the Bills.

[Albany,n.y.]

I just realized something too late to edit my last post. The only AFC East team that didn't fire Pete Carroll is the Miami Dolphins, because they were the only team lucky enough to never have hired him.

[gebobs]

If the bills had sat their starters at that point. then I would admit it was classless. They didn't.
So it had some class?

[gebobs]

Please don't make stuff up. While some people left, saying 3/4 of the stadium emptied is ridiculous. My guess is 10-15% left, not 75%.
By the way, going back to your guess in the thread starter why Carroll might not like the Bills-it probably has more to do with the Bills letting him go after 1 season as an assistant coach (1984) than coaching for division rivals. I'm amazed that nobody remembers Carroll's time with the Bills.
I rather not remember anything about 1984.

[trapezeus]

for Pete carroll to be hung up about 1984 is pathetic.

i get the revenge when the wound is still fresh. but to hate the bills for letting you go almost 30 years ago is sad. it'd be like being really angry that your first girlfriend didn't marry you.

when the wound is fresh, you act a certain way and sometimes act poorly and go with what feels best than do the right thing. when you've had time to get over it and learn and move on, you rarely care. if he's pissed about a low level buffalo job after living in socal for 10-15 years, he's a strange man.

[Mouldsie]

If nothing else, he is costing future opponents time to prepare for it. It was a fine play call.
Yea but philosophically as a coach I'd rather save it

[SABURZFAN]

i thought it was a message sent saying that the Buffalo Bills are a total joke and something needs to be done about it.

[jills]

Apparently, you think sportsmanship ends at the college level.

It was a douchey move and far too prevalent in professional football now.

Douchey move? Is there a rule that prevents teams from running plays we can't stop?

[gebobs]

Douchey move? Is there a rule that prevents teams from running plays we can't stop?
Nope. No rules against being a douchebag in pro football. It's not at all relevant, but thanks for joining the conversation.