Just to challenge the Chip Kelly fans for a minute...

[X-Era]

So we hated Gailey when he wouldn't let Lindell try a 50 yard field goal that he probably couldn't hit.

But, we really want a guy who goes for 2 point conversions instead of the extra point in the 1st quarter?

Does anyone really think this place wouldn't explode if a call like fails and we end the game losing by 1 point?

I won't mind the hiring at all but if questionable play calling drove you nuts with Gailey how well will this guy go over with you?

It will be new alright and different but many of you will want him gone after his first year... hell maybe after the first loss.

Be careful what you wish for...

[Oaf]

If coaches played by the numbers, teams would go for it a lot more on 4th down and on 2pts. If you think we'll lose a few games through being aggressive in this way, we'll certainly win our fair share too. Bring on the new game.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I'd take a gambler any day

[plundar]

Sean Payton when he went for an onsides kick in the Super Bowl? I want a coach that plays to win. Not one that plays to try and not lose.

[BillsFever21]

I doubt he would be going for 2pt conversions and 4th downs as much as he does as college coach if he ever went to the NFL. He would take into account the game along with the increased competition when it comes down to the odds of pulling off. It's much easier to pull that off when they are going against some 2nd rate college teams as opposed to going against the Patriots, etc.

With that said he shows he would have the guts to take a chance when it was needed. He wouldn't be like Gailey and kick a FG on 4th and short instead of going for a TD when you're down by 13+ points halfway through the 4th quarter and your defense has had trouble stopping them most of the day to begin with.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

That's complete BS as the Bills fan are going extreme. I can't help but laugh at the crowd on WGR when Whisenhunt's record of punting inside 40 yard line is any indication that he's no good or worse than Chan. Do they study each of those situations? Do they know the Cards offense is horrible whereas the D is more decent? Do they know what kind of kicker they had in those cases? None. But that percentage is all you need to do if a coach is any good.

[jdbillsfan]

Kelly is exuding more confidence and aggressiveness. Killer instinct. Gailey is showing no faith in either the kicker or the offense. Much more conservative. Two different approaches.

Not saying going for two is the way to go, but the two examples do show the differences in styles.

[BillsFever21]

I know you must be upset about Gailey getting fired since he had that one winning record with the Cowboys around 10 years ago and he was destined to make us SB contenders but you can't compare apples to oranges. I'm sure one of the other 6+ teams will jump on him for his proven winning track record and reap the rewards from us. Gailey will be just fine.

[X-Era]

Ok guys, like I said I will like the signing because I tend to like taking risks and don't dwell as much on a few play calls when your QB is sub-par.

I just want to look at this with eyes wide open and be willing to be critical of what we ask for and what we get.

[BillsFever21]

Ok guys, like I said I will like the signing because I tend to like taking risks and don't dwell as much on a few play calls when your QB is sub-par.

I just want to look at this with eyes wide open and be willing to be critical of what we ask for and what we get.

I doubt you will see him on the Buffalo sidelines. It's just the normal every 3 years offseason talk for the Bills when it comes to playing out games in your head with the new coach since we're destined to be better after we fired the previous bum. Too bad it's been 13 years of waiting for that to actually happen though.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

We won't get Kelly, it'll be effin wiz man

[BLeonard]

First off, look at the situation... It was after a KR TD to open the game... Going for 2 there makes sense, as it's essentially your first offensive play from scrimmage and the defense's first look at you... Going for two there is trying to step on the other team's throat before they even get out of the gate. In that situation, I think it's a smart move.

Second and probably most importantly, the 2 point conversion was successful. Looks like it was the right call to me.

-Bill

[GreedoII]

the game tonight is basically an exhibition game that means nothing really. No stakes here so he went for it. Nothing to lose or gain here except showcasing to Nfl teams. He won't do this much I think in the nfl

[BLeonard]

OK, did everyone else just see that drive after the missed FG? Where Oregon pretty much walked down the field...? 5 plays, 76 yards in like 45 seconds... Gailey and Jauron would have taken a ******* knee and went to the locker room.

Remember the Bills offense two weeks ago, down in Miami... Down by a couple scores with 5 or so minutes left... But, instead of trying to score quick and get back in the game, there they were, lollygagging down the field, taking their sweet old time.

THAT is what Chip Kelly would bring to the Bills... A sense of urgency and a killer instinct. Qualities that the Dick Jaurons and Chan Gaileys of the coaching world DON'T HAVE!

-Bill

[X-Era]

OK, did everyone else just see that drive after the missed FG? Where Oregon pretty much walked down the field...? 5 plays, 76 yards in like 45 seconds... Gailey and Jauron would have taken a ******* knee and went to the locker room.

Remember the Bills offense two weeks ago, down in Miami... Down by a couple scores with 5 or so minutes left... But, instead of trying to score quick and get back in the game, there they were, lollygagging down the field, taking their sweet old time.

THAT is what Chip Kelly would bring to the Bills... A sense of urgency and a killer instinct. Qualities that the Dick Jaurons and Chan Gaileys of the coaching world DON'T HAVE!

-BillI am only saying that we ran guys out of town for a lot less questionable play calling. If it wasn't you or any fans of hiring Chip Kelly so be it.

[BLeonard]

I am only saying that we ran guys out of town for a lot less questionable play calling. If it wasn't you or any fans of hiring Chip Kelly so be it.

Name one time in the past 7 years when the Bills have made an aggressive play call, failed and people called for the coaches' head...

My bet is, there isn't one, because Jauron and Gailey were so ******* conservative, I can't remember the last time either of them made an aggressive playcall.

Unless, of course, you call having Fitz throwing the ball with under 5 minutes to play, while trying to protect a lead "aggressive." With a back like Spiller in the backfield, I call that "******ed."

When's the last time the Bills scored an offensive touchdown to take the lead in a game with under 2 minutes to play...? I can't think of one.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

Another TD... This one took 7 plays, 61 yards, 2:26...

BTW, Oregon just had the PAT blocked... 2 pointer looks even smarter now, as they're still up by 21.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

A 1 point safety? Never seen that before... Anyway, 32-10 now...

BTW, is it me, or does the K-State coach look like he could be Jauron's father...?

-Bill

[Skooby]

The Ducks seem well coached.

[Skooby]

OK, did everyone else just see that drive after the missed FG? Where Oregon pretty much walked down the field...? 5 plays, 76 yards in like 45 seconds... Gailey and Jauron would have taken a ******* knee and went to the locker room.

Remember the Bills offense two weeks ago, down in Miami... Down by a couple scores with 5 or so minutes left... But, instead of trying to score quick and get back in the game, there they were, lollygagging down the field, taking their sweet old time.

THAT is what Chip Kelly would bring to the Bills... A sense of urgency and a killer instinct. Qualities that the Dick Jaurons and Chan Gaileys of the coaching world DON'T HAVE!

-Bill

Hard to argue with this, at all.

[X-Era]

Name one time in the past 7 years when the Bills have made an aggressive play call, failed and people called for the coaches' head...

My bet is, there isn't one, because Jauron and Gailey were so ******* conservative, I can't remember the last time either of them made an aggressive playcall.

Unless, of course, you call having Fitz throwing the ball with under 5 minutes to play, while trying to protect a lead "aggressive." With a back like Spiller in the backfield, I call that "******ed."

When's the last time the Bills scored an offensive touchdown to take the lead in a game with under 2 minutes to play...? I can't think of one.

-BillBrad Smith TD attempt into the endzone that was picked off. Fitz throwing deep ever. Fitz throwing with the game on the line. Fitz throwing for 10 when we need 2. I can't think of the specific plays off the top of my head but questionable play calling is questionable play calling.

Going for it on 4th down. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that one bite us in the ass just this year? My memory isn't that great but it seems like there was a play like that just this year.

Hell moving the ball down the field too quickly in the 4th is aggressive but can also be considered bad clock management. It certainly isn't conservative play calling.

[madness]

There won't be many close games with Chip Kelly, even so he'd win a lot more than lose. Show me an aggressive coach in Buffalo and I'll support him win or lose. Yes, he's a coach but Chip Kelly gives me the same can't miss feeling I had with A.J.Green... and I watched Buffalo walk right pass him like he wasn't there. I don't want to see that happen again.

[X-Era]

There won't be many close games with Chip Kelly, even so he'd win a lot more than lose. Show me an aggressive coach in Buffalo and I'll support him win or lose. Yes, he's a coach but Chip Kelly gives me the same can't miss feeling I had with A.J.Green... and I watched Buffalo walk right pass him like he wasn't there. I don't want to see that happen again.This isn't college and he has never faced a really good NFL defense. The NFL consistently has many close games. Parity has made this even more so.

[mikemac2001]

This isn't college and he has never faced a really good NFL defense. The NFL consistently has many close games. Parity has made this even more so.



I like his thinking and with the nfl becoming more of a spread Offense anyways i wouldnt mind him....my big issue is yes it works with a ****ty qb in college but you need a cam/rg3/vick type in the pros

i wouldnt mind him a good DC and maybe vick (dixon if he is a FA) and a rookie qb

[BLeonard]

Brad Smith TD attempt into the endzone that was picked off. Fitz throwing deep ever. Fitz throwing with the game on the line. Fitz throwing for 10 when we need 2. I can't think of the specific plays off the top of my head but questionable play calling is questionable play calling.


[/b]Unless, of course, you call having Fitz throwing the ball with under 5 minutes to play, while trying to protect a lead "aggressive." With a back like Spiller in the backfield, I call that "******ed."[/b]

I beleive my statement here covers a good chunk of those.

Brad Smith throwing when they had a lead was ******ed.
Fitz throwing with under 5 minutes to play when the Bills had the lead (Tennessee and Arizona, probably more that I don't recall) were ******ed.

Hell, how many times did the Bills just go three and out after calling 3 passing plays, even if the run game was going well?

That's not "questionable play calling." That's ******ed.

Even if Oregon doesn't get the 2 pointer, they're still up 6-0 within the first 30 seconds of the game, with their offense not even seeing the field. But, as I said before, they did convert... K-State has been playing catch-up ever since.

-Bill

[X-Era]

I like his thinking and with the nfl becoming more of a spread Offense anyways i wouldnt mind him....my big issue is yes it works with a ****ty qb in college but you need a cam/rg3/vick type in the pros

i wouldnt mind him a good DC and maybe vick (dixon if he is a FA) and a rookie qbI wouldn't mind the signing at all. Let me say that again.

What I'm pointing out is that questionable play calling is a major reason many wanted Gailey gone and this guy makes an art of it... If it works he's a hero if it loses games it was incredibly stupid.

Again, personally, I have no issue with risk takers... I like it. But, many don't. And this guy is definitely a risk taker.

[X-Era]

I beleive my statement here covers a good chunk of those.

Brad Smith throwing when they had a lead was ******ed.
Fitz throwing with under 5 minutes to play when the Bills had the lead (Tennessee and Arizona, probably more that I don't recall) were ******ed.

Hell, how many times did the Bills just go three and out after calling 3 passing plays, even if the run game was going well?

That's not "questionable play calling." That's ******ed.

Even if Oregon doesn't get the 2 pointer, they're still up 6-0 within the first 30 seconds of the game, with their offense not even seeing the field. But, as I said before, they did convert... K-State has been playing catch-up ever since.

-BillSo aggressive is ******ed when it doesn't work.

This is the issue. Fans either buy fully into being risky and aggressive and are willing to accept failure or they aren't. If Smith hits that TD throw, Gailey looks like a genius.

Aggressive equals boom or bust. The risk is way higher. Some fans can handle it and not fault the HC when it fails. Others want him gone after the first call like that.

[mikemac2001]

but you look at the percentages of teams that kick fg instead of getting TD's they usually lose

i read an article about kelly ill try to dig it up broke down a lot of numbers and made sense...will it work in NFL idk but nothing has worked for us in 13 yrs

[BLeonard]

This isn't college and he has never faced a really good NFL defense. The NFL consistently has many close games. Parity has made this even more so.

Loss: 48 - 28
Loss: 52 - 28
Loss: 45 - 3
Loss: 21 - 9
Loss: 50 - 17
Loss: 24 - 10

6 of the Bills 10 losses were by 12 or more points... 4 of their wins were by more than one score. That's more than half of the games that I wouldn't consider "close."

-Bill

[X-Era]

but you look at the percentages of teams that kick fg instead of getting TD's they usually lose

i read an article about kelly ill try to dig it up broke down a lot of numbers and made sense...will it work in NFL idk but nothing has worked for us in 13 yrsNow your talking my language. If the calls he makes are based on statistics and facts, I like it... a lot actually. Kelly is noted for that. Gailey? Probably not.

I have no issue with it. It's unorthodox though and will not appeal to many fans.

Fans who want to run and stop the run. Defense wins championships. etc...

[X-Era]

Loss: 48 - 28
Loss: 52 - 28
Loss: 45 - 3
Loss: 21 - 9
Loss: 50 - 17
Loss: 24 - 10

6 of the Bills 10 losses were by 12 or more points... 4 of their wins were by more than one score. That's more than half of the games that I wouldn't consider "close."

-BillI said the NFL not just the Bills. We rarely had a blow out but got blown out many times... We weren't very good.

[BLeonard]

So aggressive is ******ed when it doesn't work.

This is the issue. Fans either buy fully into being risky and aggressive and are willing to accept failure or they aren't. If Smith hits that TD throw, Gailey looks like a genius.

Aggressive equals boom or bust. The risk is way higher. Some fans can handle it and not fault the HC when it fails. Others want him gone after the first call like that.

There's a time to be aggressive and there's a time to be smart... Notice how, with a 15 point lead and a little over 6 minutes to play, Oregon is slowing their usually fast no-huddle offense down and handing the ball off to their running back, who's still gaining big yards...?

Chan Gailey probably would be having Brad Smith throw to the end zone... Or throwing on three consecutive downs... Or anything other than giving his star RB, who averaged over 6 YPC the ball...

-Bill

[mikemac2001]

sorry this was in nov (idk if its been posted) but this is the article i was thinking of towards the end it breaks down kicking fg's

But the most important thing to take away from Zeus' findings is that the math isn't even close. The numbers are so overwhelming that teams that kick field goals on fourth and short at the 20-yard line aren't just wrong, they're so wrong it's ludicrous

this was from article but was interesting


http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/men-action/201211/how-oregon-coach-chip-kelly-can-spark-moneyball-revolution-nfl


Now your talking my language. If the calls he makes are based on statistics and facts, I like it... a lot actually. Kelly is noted for that. Gailey? Probably not.

I have no issue with it. It's unorthodox though and will not appeal to many fans.

Fans who want to run and stop the run. Defense wins championships. etc...

[mikemac2001]

and i thought k state should have went for it in there own end...i know if they fail they likely lose but look the ducks were likely to pick up 2 first downs at least

[X-Era]

There's a time to be aggressive and there's a time to be smart... Notice how, with a 15 point lead and a little over 6 minutes to play, Oregon is slowing their usually fast no-huddle offense down and handing the ball off to their running back, who's still gaining big yards...?

Chan Gailey probably would be having Brad Smith throw to the end zone... Or throwing on three consecutive downs... Or anything other than giving his star RB, who averaged over 6 YPC the ball...

-BillI think you're pulling at straws man. Gailey made stupid moves. Kelly has and will too.

[X-Era]

sorry this was in nov (idk if its been posted) but this is the article i was thinking of towards the end it breaks down kicking fg's

But the most important thing to take away from Zeus' findings is that the math isn't even close. The numbers are so overwhelming that teams that kick field goals on fourth and short at the 20-yard line aren't just wrong, they're so wrong it's ludicrous

this was from article but was interesting


http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/men-action/201211/how-oregon-coach-chip-kelly-can-spark-moneyball-revolution-nfl

Very interesting and if you don't look at it at least... that is ******ed.

[BLeonard]

I think you're pulling at straws man. Gailey made stupid moves. Kelly has and will too.

Well, let's see... Oregon just got a pick... 2:06 left, Oregon up 35-17.... Bet you that Oregon doesn't throw the ball once.

-Bill

[X-Era]

Well, let's see... Oregon just got a pick... 2:06 left, Oregon up 35-17.... Bet you that Oregon doesn't throw the ball once.

-BillWhat's the argument here? I like him too. You trust in his choices. Ok. They will be risky and they will fail at times. That's really my only point.

[mikemac2001]

What's the argument here? I like him too. You trust in his choices. Ok. They will be risky and they will fail at times. That's really my only point.


i am confused as well....he should run why wouldnt he

[BLeonard]

What's the argument here? I like him too. You trust in his choices. Ok. They will be risky and they will fail at times. That's really my only point.

There's a difference between risky and stupid.

Besides, personally, I didn't want Gailey fired for his stupid playcalling... I wanted him fired for having a 16-32 record over 3 seasons... His stupid playcalling was just icing on the cake.

-Bill

[Ingtar33]

So we hated Gailey when he wouldn't let Lindell try a 50 yard field goal that he probably couldn't hit.

But, we really want a guy who goes for 2 point conversions instead of the extra point in the 1st quarter?

Does anyone really think this place wouldn't explode if a call like fails and we end the game losing by 1 point?

I won't mind the hiring at all but if questionable play calling drove you nuts with Gailey how well will this guy go over with you?

It will be new alright and different but many of you will want him gone after his first year... hell maybe after the first loss.

Be careful what you wish for...

Chip Kelly always goes for 2 on his first TD if he's leading, he's done that for 4 years at Oregon. That's his calling card. He likes to set the tempo and put as much pressure as possible on the other team.

It's not gambling it's simply his way. Frankly if that's your problem with him then you're picking at straws. Kelly is one of the great football coaches in the USA, and one of the few men i truly respect in the business.

[RedEyE]

Maybe I'm just too school but that fake punt could have come back to haunt them badly if they played a team that actually knows how to capitalize on mistakes. Oregon looks well coached, an obvious plus, but I just don't see this style offense translating in the NFL. The talent level is much greater which means you're going to need an A+ QB with a great amount of speed, and throwing skills to boot. Your run of the mill RGIII doesn't just happen along everyday. And the lack of clock control would certainly weigh on your defense as they would be on the field most of the game. Kelly would have to tone his aggresiveness down a bit. I'm all for calculated risk but there is a time when burning clock is your most effective weapon.

I do think Kelly would do awesome things with Spiller, but who leads the offense on the field?

[X-Era]

Chip Kelly always goes for 2 on his first TD if he's leading, he's done that for 4 years at Oregon. That's his calling card. He likes to set the tempo and put as much pressure as possible on the other team.

It's not gambling it's simply his way. Frankly if that's your problem with him then you're picking at straws. Kelly is one of the great football coaches in the USA, and one of the few men i truly respect in the business.
Please find where I have a problem with him.

[Ingtar33]

Maybe I'm just too school but that fake punt could have come back to haunt them badly if they played a team that actually knows how to capitalize on mistakes. Oregon looks well coached, an obvious plus, but I just don't see this style offense translating in the NFL. The talent level is much greater which means you're going to need an A+ QB with a great amount of speed, and throwing skills to boot. Your run of the mill RGIII doesn't just happen along everyday. And the lack of clock control would certainly weigh on your defense as they would be on the field most of the game. Kelly would have to tone his aggresiveness down a bit. I'm all for calculated risk but there is a time when burning clock is your most effective weapon.

I do think Kelly would do awesome things with Spiller, but who leads the offense on the field?

he wins without A+ talent. find the high end nfl talent on his roster.

[BLeonard]

i am confused as well....he should run why wouldnt he

The point was, in the past, gailey, under similar situations, chose to throw the ball.

Had the lead with around 3 minutes to go against Tennessee... Fitz throws. Pick. Tennessee scores and wins.

Had the lead in Arizona with a few minutes left... Brad Smith throws. Pick. Arizona drives down in less than 2 minutes and kicks tbe game tying FG. Would have lost that game, too, if Carrington hadn't blocked the next FG attempt.

That's just 2 instances... God forbid in either of those situations he call running plays to Spiller, eat the clock and possibly win the game.

-Bill

[mikemac2001]

Maybe I'm just too school but that fake punt could have come back to haunt them badly if they played a team that actually knows how to capitalize on mistakes. Oregon looks well coached, an obvious plus, but I just don't see this style offense translating in the NFL. The talent level is much greater which means you're going to need an A+ QB with a great amount of speed, and throwing skills to boot. Your run of the mill RGIII doesn't just happen along everyday. And the lack of clock control would certainly weigh on your defense as they would be on the field most of the game. Kelly would have to tone his aggresiveness down a bit. I'm all for calculated risk but there is a time when burning clock is your most effective weapon.

I do think Kelly would do awesome things with Spiller, but who leads the offense on the field?

this is the same worries i have....i feel it would work but needs to be tweaked i bet his first yr maybe two would be rough for fans....and if we didnt have a decent qb who would run the o we would be useless

[mikemac2001]

The point was, in the past, gailey, under similar situations, chose to throw the ball.

Had the lead with around 3 minutes to go against Tennessee... Fitz throws. Pick. Tennessee scores and wins.

Had the lead in Arizona with a few minutes left... Brad Smith throws. Pick. Arizona drives down in less than 2 minutes and kicks tbe game tying FG. Would have lost that game, too, if Carrington hadn't blocked the next FG attempt.

That's just 2 instances... God forbid in either of those situations he call running plays to Spiller, eat the clock and possibly win the game.

-Bill

makes sense man i agree just was confused by your post...gailey was smarter then himself....

[RedEyE]

he wins without A+ talent. find the high end nfl talent on his roster.
True...in the NCAA. INGTAR, I would most definitely trust your experience over my own opinions, but still my concerns contain legitimate merit.

Still, I have Kelly listed higher than Whisenhunt on my wish list.

[psubills62]

If he knows what he's doing, it's not a problem.

[Mouldsie]

When Gailey first got here he was a lot more aggressive I think. I loved it. Then he started coaching scared the more expectations we had.

[JoeMama]

When Gailey first got here he was a lot more aggressive I think. I loved it. Then he started coaching scared the more expectations we had.

That's how I view it too.

I guess it's easy to appear gutsy and aggressive when you start the season 0-8. What the hell else do you have to lose, ya know?

As expectations grew, Gailey withdrew and started playing Dickball like he was afraid to screw up.

[YardRat]

:rofl:

The first time Kelly goes for two and fails, and the team loses, 3/4 of the posters on all message boards are going to be ranting "I TOLD YOU THIS CHEAP **** DOESN'T PLAY IN THE NFL LIKE IT DOES IN COLLEGE!!!" and we all know it.

[justasportsfan]

that play doesn't worry me however, the thing that worries me about Chip is that Saban is a more proven college coach than Chip and yet he had a hard time with pro personnel management.He failed at miami.

Back when Saban was the HC of Miami word was Pro's players didn't like Sabans Nazi type of control and yelling. Not saying that Chip is that way but I just wonder if he can control players' ego's.

Another thing is, the wildcat was the thing way back then and is now dead. Teams learned to stop it. The Patriots although adopted some of Kelly's principles, they are not a one trick pony with Josh McDaniels. They know more than one way to skin a cat offensively. What happens if teams learn to stop Chip Kelly's offense. Is he a one trick pony? :idunno:

[IlluminatusUIUC]

So aggressive is ******ed when it doesn't work.

This is the issue. Fans either buy fully into being risky and aggressive and are willing to accept failure or they aren't. If Smith hits that TD throw, Gailey looks like a genius.

Aggressive equals boom or bust. The risk is way higher. Some fans can handle it and not fault the HC when it fails. Others want him gone after the first call like that.

There are always going to be fans who don't understand the math or just have a more conservative approach to the game. Coaches need to be able to take it. When Belichick went for 4th and 2 on his own 32 or whatever it was against Manning a couple years back, he got roasted. But it was 100% the right call.

The problem with the "agressive" situations you mentioned upthread is that Gailey consistently put his players in a position to fail. Throwing a deep pass to try to close out the Arizona game? Ok, but we didn't have any deep ball passers on the active roster and Smith hadn't thrown a pass in over a year. Play to your player's strengths.

[Mr. Pink]

There are always going to be fans who don't understand the math or just have a more conservative approach to the game. Coaches need to be able to take it. When Belichick went for 4th and 2 on his own 32 or whatever it was against Manning a couple years back, he got roasted. But it was 100% the right call.



He got roasted because it goes against the old boys mentality of how you should coach in this league.

I'd love for Kelly to be successful in this league, be it here, Cleveland or Philly just to break the barrier down a little.

[Bill Cody]

It would be exciting. Sign me up.