So the revolution at one bills drive included....

[trapezeus]

firing one coach, promoting a 13 year loser, and selecting a new coach with a worse record than the outgoing coach.

viva la resistance!

4-12 with comments of "but we are improving"

sorry, i just was hoping for an actual change that might work. but marrone is our guy now, so i have to get on board.

[Night Train]

firing one coach, promoting a 13 year loser, and selecting a new coach with a worse record than the outgoing coach.

viva la resistance!

4-12 with comments of "but we are improving"

sorry, i just was hoping for an actual change that might work. but marrone is our guy now, so i have to get on board.

He already failed ?

I didn't see that "tweet " .

[THATHURMANATOR]

How does he have a worse record than the outgoing coach?

I am not a huge Marrone guy but it doesn't make sense.

[ServoBillieves]

He already failed ?

I didn't see that "tweet " .

Oh you didn't hear? He went 25-25 at Syracuse and was only an OC in the NFL, not a proven commodity. He's gone 7-41 in his tenure as the Bills coach already! What a failure and bad pick up!

[trapezeus]

you all honestly think promoting the one guuy who has essentially been calling the shots for the last 5 years and firing one guy is the big difference maker?

they need to give this guy a lot more help or you will see him
1. want to implement his entire idea (which takes time, and you all need to be patient)
2. stick by one or two hires who simply don't have what it takes and he can't throw them under the bus because more qualified candidates don't want to work under an unproven guy.
3. some old guard players really hate this guy because he essentially sounds like a Gregg Williams type disciplinarian. So now we have to replace positions that aren't needs because they can't perform.

What about this hire sounds different from the last 4? Other than hope and faith, there is very little reason to think this will turn out any different.

[CoolBreeze]

you all honestly think promoting the one guuy who has essentially been calling the shots for the last 5 years and firing one guy is the big difference maker?

they need to give this guy a lot more help or you will see him
1. want to implement his entire idea (which takes time, and you all need to be patient)
2. stick by one or two hires who simply don't have what it takes and he can't throw them under the bus because more qualified candidates don't want to work under an unproven guy.
3. some old guard players really hate this guy because he essentially sounds like a Gregg Williams type disciplinarian. So now we have to replace positions that aren't needs because they can't perform.

What about this hire sounds different from the last 4? Other than hope and faith, there is very little reason to think this will turn out any different.
This team needs a disciplinarian. Have you seen them tackle? This team needs to be turned over a bit, and players need to be held accountable. I know there's a lot of people who wanted Lovie Smith. Lovie may be a "players coach" , but so wasn't Dick Jauron. The fact is, "players coaches" get taken advantage of. The Head Coach should be the Boss 1st, Friend 2nd. Not the other way around. I really don't believe this hire is anything like the last several. Gailey came out of nowhere, Jauron, was the old retread coach who's been in the NFL forever, Mularkey and Williams were the "hot coordinators". I don't think this hire was the good ol' boy thing either. Brandon has to know this wasn't the popular choice. I think this is going to be the more of the norm in the NFL. Teams and people are tired of the hiring and firing of the same people all the time. The argument of Marrone going 25-25 at SU isn't really valid. Believe me, I hate Syracuse athletics, and wish they would go winless every year. But what Marrone did there is quite miraculous. They were 10-37 the previous 4 years, and no high school recruit with any prominence wanted to go there. Many still didn't after Marrone got the job. However he changed the culture and attitude there. One could argue it's far harder to win and maintain winning in college football. We'll see what happens.

[trapezeus]

i'm going to pull for Marrone. i want him to get the job done.

the thing is, if he can't get the job done, guess which guy who has done nothing but fail in buffalo will remain at the top making choices? Russ Brandon gets too much credit for selling buffalo football games. and when he gets his hands dirty with football he doesn't know what he's doing.

look at this board. everyone is saying Te'o in the first round. i can guarantee you if he is there, the bills will not select him. they'll take someone else.

[Night Train]

Oh you didn't hear? He went 25-25 at Syracuse and was only an OC in the NFL, not a proven commodity. He's gone 7-41 in his tenure as the Bills coach already! What a failure and bad pick up!

" They should have picked.."

16172

[TedMock]

you all honestly think promoting the one guuy who has essentially been calling the shots for the last 5 years and firing one guy is the big difference maker?

they need to give this guy a lot more help or you will see him
1. want to implement his entire idea (which takes time, and you all need to be patient)
2. stick by one or two hires who simply don't have what it takes and he can't throw them under the bus because more qualified candidates don't want to work under an unproven guy.
3. some old guard players really hate this guy because he essentially sounds like a Gregg Williams type disciplinarian. So now we have to replace positions that aren't needs because they can't perform.

What about this hire sounds different from the last 4? Other than hope and faith, there is very little reason to think this will turn out any different.

That would be the case with any person they hired. I don' know if Marrone will succeed or not. I do know I like his background enough. The last four were all different. It's not the approach, necessarily, that has failed us. It's been either the hire, or the GM. Gregg Williams is a fine (albeit slightly psychotic) defensive coach. Success everywhere...except Buffalo. Williams was hired at a time when the hot D-coordinators were the thing to hire. John Fox, Marvin Lewis got their jobs around that time, I believe. Mike Mularky was a hot-shout young offensive coordinator. I never thought Mularky had the head coaching potential that Williams did, but Mularky coached good offenses before and after Buffalo. He still struggles as a head coach. Dick Jauron was the stereotypical re-tread hire. He's been up and down as HC and DC and he's part of the fraternity. Chan was also retread, but on the offensive side. Chan is part of the fraternity, but seems a bit less engrained. His hire was that of a creative offensive mind who brings some good old southern football mentality. None of the above worked, obviously, but I never felt like it was the same hire. Chan and Dick were certainly more similar in that regard, but they were nothing like Gregg and Mularky.

Other retreads have been hired and won. Other hot coordinators have been hired and won. Disciplinarians work. Players coaches work. We just have grossly missed on the person...every time!

Marrone may or may not work, but I do like that he's a stickler to detail, but also very flexible. I like that he's coached under Herm Edwards and Sean Payton - two different personalities. I like that he changed the culture at a struggling college program. This hire to me just feels very different. I'm not saying it's going to be insanely successful. I don't know that, but I wouldn't know that with any hire. Chip Kelly is an even bigger unknown. Lovie, Gruden, Whisenhunt would have all felt like similar hires as the last two in the sense that they all got fired from their last gig. Gruden won it all, but only one coach has won it all in two different places and that was decades agon. I liked the idea of Horton and McCoy, but what makes them all that different from Mularky and Williams? At least Marrone is slightly unique. I don't think it's any bigger a risk than anybod else.

[Bill Cody]

firing one coach, promoting a 13 year loser, and selecting a new coach with a worse record than the outgoing coach.

viva la resistance!

4-12 with comments of "but we are improving"

sorry, i just was hoping for an actual change that might work. but marrone is our guy now, so i have to get on board.

This is "getting on board"? What is not on board like?

[JoeMama]

Yeah talk about a bait and switch.

All these wholesale changes we demanded...

Russ Brandon -- king huckster -- is now in charge like 2006.

Buddy Nix is still here to ruin our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

A .500 coach in the NCAA is here to turn things around I guess???

I ****ing hate this team.

[justasportsfan]

He already failed ?

I didn't see that "tweet " .

Eh! If the bills hired someone else, there'd be other threads from other posters whining about the hire. I was okay at first about Marrone but the more I hear about the hire the more I am cautiously optimistic.

[trapezeus]

i just wanted to vent...get it out and then get on board.

honestly, if the bills hired wisenhunt, i would have skipped on season tickets this year.

this guy has some positives, a couple negatives. i think as a fan, it's something to try and get excited about. but if you were an outsider and heard that the bills wanted to change the culture, and literally promoted the same dumbasses who got us to this point, and then changed one coach and let that newbie hire as he pleases, you'd say, "is that really change?"

part of me thinks nix was right. it would have been better to stick with gailey and give him a chance with a QB than to make this wholesale change for mediocre change.

but it is what it is. let's see what happens in the draft.

[justasportsfan]

part of me thinks nix was right. it would have been better to stick with gailey and give him a chance with a QB than to make this wholesale change for mediocre change.
Actually is was NIx who fired Chan. Not Russ.

Chan would have kept Wanny. As I watched the seahawks and skins game last night, I was thinking how Wanny would've have insisted on rushing 4 players all day which would have kept RG3 fresh all night while picking our D apart. Our DL is too talented to set to fail.

[trapezeus]

there was a fourth and something play at the end, where the seahawks blitzed which i thought was gutsy and dominating.

if marrone shows confidence in his group of guys to go make plays, next year could be different. but for whatever reason, coaches in buffalo enjoy playing not to lose for the last 13 years and have lost consistently.

[justasportsfan]

there was a fourth and something play at the end, where the seahawks blitzed which i thought was gutsy and dominating.

if marrone shows confidence in his group of guys to go make plays, next year could be different. but for whatever reason, coaches in buffalo enjoy playing not to lose for the last 13 years and have lost consistently.

Wanny's D would have never injured RG3 and even if he was, he'd have all day to throw on one leg.
Marrone's D at SU was aggressive and loved to blitz from what I hear.

[Fletch]

firing one coach, promoting a 13 year loser, and selecting a new coach with a worse record than the outgoing coach.

viva la resistance!

4-12 with comments of "but we are improving"

sorry, i just was hoping for an actual change that might work. but marrone is our guy now, so i have to get on board.

No, you don't have to get on board, you have a choice. If you want to support this, then do. Many here will.

We get the team that we deserve. If the stadium had 20K empty seats for the home opener next season, then maybe Brandon and the FO would be able to buy a clue with some of that enormous overpayment of salary they get.

Won't happen though, the first five games will sell out, the team will be less than .500 again, people will begin to see that endorsing this move had no basis, and then everyone will be locked into mediocrity for another three seasons or until Ralph kicks with their only hope of competence at OBD being the latter. Talk about morbid.

Fans can have an impact. The ones that don't care will watch other teams or football generally speaking. The rest will become part of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

My advice, ... don't spend a dime on games or merchandise. Watch the games on TV if you really BILL-ieve. And if the team's promises begin to unfold, then reconsider supporting them with your dollars.

At its essence, this is still a business. No business can survive without customers. In a sense we are a captive audience as fans of the team, but that doesn't mean that we have to pay money and support it with our money to watch it.

Once again there is organizational controversy that revolves around competency and good managemant that's causing a rift amongst the fanbase. Many of those that are displeased are still going to support it all with their dollars just as they have. We have posters here saying that no one was supportive of Gailey here, but many went to games and spent money on tickets, parking, and concessions? Why? Was it worth it? Did you receive good value for your entertainment dollar? Or do you feel like you were screwed over?

If a bad movie comes out the reviewers quickly pan it and no one goes. Not so in football. Reviewers pan it and people just keep going. Why?

We all have choices. But those with the least license to complain are those that continue to give the team their money and support despite their not thinking that the team is running itself competently.

Talk about insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Again, we get the team that we deserve. I guarantee that if the home opener had 20K empty seats and there were an average of 30K empty seats for the remaining games, or Pats fans invaded the stadium for Pats games etc., for one season, then there would be some changes.

That will never happen though. Hence, no real changes will be forthcoming on Wilson's watch.

[better days]

We all know about Brandons ties to Syracuse. I question if Marrone would have been hired by the Bills if he were associated with WVU & not Syracuse.

[justasportsfan]

We all know about Brandons ties to Syracuse. I question if Marrone would have been hired by the Bills if he were associated with WVU & not Syracuse.

I would rather have the bills hire someone they know in and out or we end up with Dick and Chan.

[trapezeus]

but the point is my heart is bills football. even in these miserable years, i need to see the game. i need to think they have a shot for a little bit. they are the lotto. the odds totally against winning, yet you buy the ticket anyway. who knows.

however, if we find out marrone has a fitz tattoo, i'm done with him.

[better days]

I would rather have the bills hire someone they know in and out or we end up with Dick and Chan.

Well, maybe your right & they know Marrone well & think he will get the job done. I just question if he were not associated with the Cuse if he would have still had the same consideration by the Bills. He does at least have HC experience which I wanted the next Bills HC to have.

But after 13 years of losing, Morrone nor any other HC the Bills could have hired will get any kind of honeymoon period on the Bills. He has to come out of the gate winning.

[justasportsfan]

Well, maybe your right & they know Marrone well & think he will get the job done. I just question if he were not associated with the Cuse if he would have still had the same consideration by the Bills. He does at least have HC experience which I wanted the next Bills HC to have.

But after 13 years of losing, Morrone nor any other HC the Bills could have hired will get any kind of honeymoon period on the Bills. He has to come out of the gate winning. I'm sure familiarity would have played into Russ' decision and I agree about the honeymoon period. From what I'm hearing, I'm just glad that we brought in a coach who is different from the last 2 coaches who were too laid back . While I'm not sure Marrone can pull it off ,we need fire put back into this team.

I heard that Welker runs college routes that the Pats instilled. I hope that Marrone is familiar with it instead of saying"we have no answer for Welker"

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well, maybe your right & they know Marrone well & think he will get the job done. I just question if he were not associated with the Cuse if he would have still had the same consideration by the Bills. He does at least have HC experience which I wanted the next Bills HC to have.

But after 13 years of losing, Morrone nor any other HC the Bills could have hired will get any kind of honeymoon period on the Bills. He has to come out of the gate winning.

Hard to say whether or not the Bills would be interested in him if they weren't located where they are. He did interview with other teams (Cleveland and Philly) and was scheduled to interview San Diego. Apparently he was a warm commodity this year. That makes me think that he would've been at least considered by the Bills anyway.

[Fletch]

Wanny's D would have never injured RG3 and even if he was, he'd have all day to throw on one leg.
Marrone's D at SU was aggressive and loved to blitz from what I hear.

And do your own homework to validate what others put out there.

Marrone's D was tied for 57th, about middle of the stack, in sacks this season.

Does that match what you just said you heard?

Talk is cheap in football circles. Evaluate these things for yourself. It's a simple matter of a few clicks.

Either way, if he was the blitzing madman that your source claims he was, then he sorely underachieved, wouldn't you agree given that he was perfectly average in generating sacks?

And FWIW his team was ranked an even worse tied for 87th in Interceptions. So no claim can be made that all of that pass pressure helped there.

And let's keep in mind that they played only 2 top-20 passing teams either. WVU was 7th but as we all know they had issues in their passing game against stiffer competition and really weren't a good overall team. They played the following ranked passing teams otherwise:

7th
20th
29th
42nd
55th
78th
82nd
89th
93rd
106th
107th
122nd

Average rank of passing offense faced is 77th.

So does that match what your source told you?

[MikeInRoch]

i just wanted to vent...get it out and then get on board.

honestly, if the bills hired wisenhunt, i would have skipped on season tickets this year.

this guy has some positives, a couple negatives. i think as a fan, it's something to try and get excited about. but if you were an outsider and heard that the bills wanted to change the culture, and literally promoted the same dumbasses who got us to this point, and then changed one coach and let that newbie hire as he pleases, you'd say, "is that really change?"

part of me thinks nix was right. it would have been better to stick with gailey and give him a chance with a QB than to make this wholesale change for mediocre change.

but it is what it is. let's see what happens in the draft.

It doesn't matter. You'll ***** no matter what they do because they didn't do what you wanted.

[better days]

I'm sure familiarity would have played into Russ' decision and I agree about the honeymoon period. From what I'm hearing, I'm just glad that we brought in a coach who is different from the last 2 coaches who were too laid back . While I'm not sure Marrone can pull it off ,we need fire put back into this team.

I heard that Welker runs college routes that the Pats instilled. I hope that Marrone is familiar with it instead of saying"we have no answer for Welker"

Yeah, I just hope his defense will be MUCH more aggressive than we have seen from the Bills for the last decade.

[Fletch]

I would rather have the bills hire someone they know in and out or we end up with Dick and Chan.

That's what they've been doing for years. Isn't it time for a change? Nix was exactly such a hire. He in turn hired Gailey. This time the team directly hired a familiar coach.

It's been familiarity over competence for years.

I would prefer a coach that didn't feel inclined to keep the current front office happy. I would prefer a coach that would come in and do his best to shake things up.

That would be a change of pace.

[Fletch]

Yeah, I just hope his defense will be MUCH more aggressive than we have seen from the Bills for the last decade.

Rhetorically, what's your basis for that hope?

I only ask because someone pointed out that he read that Marrone played a very aggressive passing D.

But then I spent 15 minutes looking it up to see if that was true and discovered that his Orangemen ranked tied with a bunch of other teams for 57th in sacks, which is exactly middle of the stack, 87th in INTs, which is bottom quartile, and that they played teams with an average passing offense ranking of 77th. (not including Stonybrook)

So the point is that they played well below average passing teams, but could not manage to produce more than below average pass D numbers.

Put that together, and again, what is the basis for your hope? It cannot be performance, because he hasn't done that at a second tier level in college.

So why do you think it will be the case in the NFL? Again, rhetorically.

[justasportsfan]

And do your own homework to validate what others put out there.

Marrone's D was tied for 57th, about middle of the stack, in sacks this season.

Does that match what you just said you heard?

Talk is cheap in football circles. Evaluate these things for yourself. It's a simple matter of a few clicks.

Either way, if he was the blitzing madman that your source claims he was, then he sorely underachieved, wouldn't you agree given that he was perfectly average in generating sacks?

And FWIW his team was ranked an even worse tied for 87th in Interceptions. So no claim can be made that all of that pass pressure helped there.

And let's keep in mind that they played only 2 top-20 passing teams either. WVU was 7th but as we all know they had issues in their passing game against stiffer competition and really weren't a good overall team. They played the following ranked passing teams otherwise:

7th
20th
29th
42nd
55th
78th
82nd
89th
93rd
106th
107th
122nd

Average rank of passing offense faced is 77th.

So does that match what your source told you?

here's one. I would think he's got more source than you. fast forward to 6:00.

http://audio.wgr550.com/a/69520622/1-7-rich-cimini-talks-about-doug-marrone.htm

The philosophy of our defense is attack-oriented, attack and react. We want to be a defense this is multiple, that is always putting pressure and forcing the hand of the offense. We want to be a penetrating defense. If you're going to (ask) what our objectives are? The one thing we want to do is stop the run, force them to throw the ball on first down, create negative plays on first down . . . and get ourselves in position to force them to throw the ball. Get them one-dimensional. We don't want to be a defense that sits back. We want to be a defense that creates turnovers and scores touchdowns."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Shafer

it's starts with your philosophy. Whether you pull it off or not also depends on the players you have. MY point is, would rather have a coaches who loves to attack than one like Wanny and that off Jauron which is "bend don't break/play not to lose philosophy"

[chernobylwraiths]

I would prefer a coach that didn't feel inclined to keep the current front office happy.

I'm sure THAT would go over well in the interview.

[delectrolux]

Well, they didn't fire one guy, they fired an entire coaching staff. And Nix is here through the draft and then Whaley takes over. If you think that's not a change - what would happen at your job if your boss retired and you took over? Would everything remain exactly the same? Would you have made all the same decisions your boss made? Might you not take things in a different direction?

[Bill Cody]

Talk about insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.



Your post would have made sense if we retained Chan. We didn't. The move to hire Marrone is nothing if not bold. Sounds like you were ready to push the protest button no matter what.

[Bill Cody]

Marrone's D was tied for 57th, about middle of the stack, in sacks this season.

Does that match what you just said you heard?

Talk is cheap in football circles. Evaluate these things for yourself. It's a simple matter of a few clicks.



Another ******ed post. Coaches are not locked in a room playing "Madden". If you gave every coach the same talent level and let them have at it and Marrone was middle of the pack you'd have a point. As it is, you don't. Syracuse is a tough sell for a coach. It's been a downtrodden program in a conference that gets no respect. Marrone has made progress there but that is a heavy lift. Try to get a grip.

[Bert102176]

After all us Bills fans go through each year with this team I know it's hard to be optomistic, but if we stop hoping and believing that this team can be better then y bother go find a new team and stop trying to bring us people with hope down, I know u said u will give him a chance and that is cool, what I wrote is for others not u Trapezeus.

[Bert102176]

Having a D ranked 57th out of all the hundreds of colleges out there isn't that bad imo