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View Full Version : A few thoughts about Buffalo's anticipated defense



TigerJ
01-10-2013, 01:00 PM
We've heard something of what we can expect the Bills' defense to be like under Mike Pettine. He runs a hybrid defense out of a base 3-4 alignment. He likes to blitz, and to run the defense successfully the Bills need at least two cornerbacks with strong man coverage skills.

Looking at what the defense requires and what the Bills have, the defensive line seems to be in pretty good shape. One thing I've noticed is that even when in a base 3-4 alignment, the Rex Ryan/Pettine defense is a one gap defense. Many 3-4 defenses use a two gap philosophy. This is significant in that the nose tackle in a two gap defense has one primary responsibility, hold his ground and tie up blockers so that linebackers are free to make plays. Typically, you want to find the biggest strongest dude you can find, and he doesn't have to be very fast. Buffalo really doesn't have a lineman like that. The guys who will compete for defensive tackle for the Bills right now are Kyle Williams and Torrell Troup, assuming he can be healthy. Of course, Kyle Williams is the presumed starter until we learn otherwise. KW is really not suited to be a two gap nose tackle. He's not huge, and his game depends on penetrating the gap and disrupting things in the backfield. This is what he does in a 4-3 defense, but I believe it will work just as well in a one gap 3-4. Marcel Dareus, BTW can play both a two gap or one gap tackle in a 3-4 even though he lined up as a DE the last time the Bills ran a 3-4, and presumably will next season as well. Torrell Troup is bigger than Kyle Williams, and could probably work the tackle spot in either a one gap or two gap system.

At end, I'm guessing Marcel Dareus will go back to starting on one side at DE. At the other spot, the Bills have some flexibility. Mario Williams could either line up as an end or as a linebacker. He wasn't too happy playing linebacker for the Texans, but one linebacker in Pettine's scheme is essentially a defensive end equivalent who doesn't put his hand on the ground. Williaims should be OK with that. I don't know if it would be an advantage for Pettine to move Mario Williams between the DE and linebacker spots, if that would confuse offenses or not, but it's something he could do. Alex Carrington has some of the same flexibility that Mario Williams has, though he clearly doesn't have the elite quickness and speed that MW has. There are a couple of other guys on the roster who could make some noise in training camp. Pettine's scheme could be ideal for taking advantage of Jarron Gilbert's elite athleticism in the DE spot. He's big enough and very fast/quick even though he's done nothing in the NFL production wise. Maybe Pettine's scheme is just what the doctor ordered to get his career untracked much like Ryan was able to get some production out of Aaron Maybin.

Linebacker is the most unsettled area of the Bills' defense. Barnett is getting long in the tooth. Sheppard lacks great athleticism, Arthur Moats appears to have reached his ceiling (not very high). The only young guy with great athleticism is Nigel Bradham, and his ideal spot was as a 4-3 outside linebacker. He can still do that when the Bills line up in a 4-3, but it remains to be seen where he'll fit in a 3-4. He's somewhat undersized for a 3-4 outside linebacker. He's got nice size for an ILB spot, but we don't know if mentally he can make the shift. The Bills could re-sign Shawn Merriman who cut his NFL teeth as an elite 3-4 rush linebacker before a drug scandal and injury took its toll. He seemed to end the 2012 season healthy, and made at least a modest contribution to the Bills defense in 2012. The other unknown is Mark Anderson. He's nice sized for a 3-4 LB if he can get healthy, adapt to the 3-4 and actually produce on the field. I would guess this is where Pettine will hope to import some experience from the Jets. Maybe Bart Scott who I belileve is a free agent.

In the secondary, there are two main needs that I see. First, the Bills need a second CB with strong man coverage skills to make a pair like the Jets have in Revis and Cromartie. The first is Stephon Gilmore. He was very good for a rookie, though like any rookie he made some mistakes along the way. There's no reason to think he can't continue to improve, and may become the elite player we hoped he'd become when he was drafted. Ron Brooks seems to have some man skills, but an injury delayed his development, and some insurance seems in order here. Experience would be nice, making it preferable for the Bills to try and fill the need through free agency. The other need is for a linebacker/strong safety hybrid when the Bills abandon both the 3-4 and 4-3 as the Jets often did for more DBs. I understand the Jets had that kind of player, though I couldn't tell you who. Buffalo has Bryon Scott, but he's definitely getting long in the tooth, and is an unrestricted free agent. I could see the Bills wanting to get younger there. I don't know if DaNorris Searcy has enough size/talent to fill the role. If the Bills try to fill that role in the draft, I don't see them spending a high draft choice. One possibility is Ray Ray Armstrong. He has great size and speed. He was at Miami and got kicked off the team. I don't think it was for drug or legal issues, though I could be wrong. He transferred to a NAIA school but was ruled ineligible. Thus, he did not play football in 2012. However, if he's got his act together, he's got the measurables to go a lot higher than where the Bills could get him in the draft if they want him.

Well, those are my thoughts.

You can react to them, if you'd like, and add your own ideas of how things could/should shake out for the Bills defense

TigerJ
01-10-2013, 01:12 PM
I should add what is obvious, and that is Buffalo needs to settle things at free safety where Jairus Byrd is an unrestricted free agent. Since Byrd is inclined to test the free agent market, the Bills have a choice they have to make. Franchise his arse, outbid the competition for along term deal, or figure out how to go forward without him. As far as play on the field is concerned, I think they need to do something that keeps him in Buffalo.

Buffalo could move Aaron Williams to free safety, where he might be pretty good or maybe even real good. He struggled at CB last season, he looks to be better suited to zone coverage than man coverage, so he' probably not going to fit very well at CB for Mike Pettine.

EDS
01-10-2013, 01:24 PM
If I were DC, I would design the defense to take advantage of the only three talented front 7 players I have: Williams, Williams and Dareus. Every other front 7 defender on the team is replaceable.

ServoBillieves
01-10-2013, 01:43 PM
This is essentially what happened during our last transfer. We have a talented 4-3 defense with the coach, so let's switch back to a 3-4. Mario Williams had his best years in a 4-3, but shoot, we paid him out the ass, and let's move him to a position he's not fit for. Anderson is a 4-3 DE, Dareus and K. Will are interior defensive linemen who thrive in the 4-3 scheme. Here we go again. Troup and Carrington on opening day when they were neglected after the change.

ParanoidAndroid
01-10-2013, 02:16 PM
We don't know what Pettine is going to run. He could very well decide to go with a 4-3.

TigerJ
01-10-2013, 05:30 PM
He certainly has not committed to the 3-4, and in truth probably won't run it any more than the Jets did when it was their base formation (about 30%)

kishoph
01-11-2013, 03:07 AM
I'm not worried about the Bills switching to a 3-4, because Marrone basically said that the systems will be designed to suit the personnel and I don't think we have the players to stick with a base 3-4, there may be 3-4 mixed in with a hybrid, but IMO, it's not going to be their base defense.

coastal
01-11-2013, 06:27 AM
We need another CB and a safety to make it work.

can I get a woot woot?

TigerJ
01-11-2013, 07:03 AM
I agree, Coastal. And this is no matter what tweaks Pettine comes up with. He said it's going to be a pressure defense. Everything screams blitz with this guy, however they line up. That means the Bills secondary is going to play a lot more man coverage than any Bills defense in memory. Buffalo has one cornerback that we can be reasonablly sure will do will with man coverage. That's Stephon Gilmore. We need two at the very least. We've got another guy that looks like he's got some cover skills in Ron Brooks, but he's far less of a sure thing at this point. Justin Rogers has some speed and might be OK with some man coverage. Aaron Williams, most likely, is going to be a fish out of water in this scheme. They will have to work to find a place for him IMO. It might end up being at safety. I know that's been said before. Terrence McGee is probably a roster casualty. McKelvin has the athleticism, and didn't fare too badly last season, but the year before he was awful in terms of his instincts and ball skills. I think you retain him on the roster, but you'd better not count on him without a backup plan. That means the Bills lack one in terms of a sure thing as a man cover CB. Since Gilmore is so young, I think probably the free agent route is the way to go, if the Bills can find a good cover corner who isn't overpriced.

When the Bills line up with extra DBs, as the Jets did more than any other team, they have to have a big strong safety who isn't a liability in run support. Bryon Scott might be OK in that role. He's been a CB, safety, and linebacker in his career, but he's a free agent on the wrong side of thirty, and I could see the Bills parting ways with him. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by the Bills' need at safety, but that's what I'm thinking. George Wilson is also in the twilight of his career, and I'm not sure if Da'Norris Searcy is anything more than adequate. Of course, if the Bills don't retain Byrd, (franchise him or sign him to a big money deal) that creates a huge hole.

DesertFox24
01-11-2013, 07:05 AM
He will run 4-3, 3-4, 3-3, 3-2, 4-2

He is going to run multiple looks all game long.

Also when it comes to defense players I think we know what they want in secondary players, but front 7 is going to be completely new.

Last year I was able to pick players I thought they would look at Bradham and Carder were two guys I thought the bills might look at, this year I have no idea. Are they going to look at Alex Okafor as a rush OLB or DE in 4 man fronts or Arthur Brown etc...

One thing that will be for certain is we will see multiple formations personnel groupings etc... all game long. I loved what he said and it is true if brady knows what you are doing pre snap game over.

Saratoga Slim
01-11-2013, 08:31 AM
I'm hearing Dee Millner in the 1st. Which will cause at least 50% of season ticket holders to creatively off themselves.

EDS
01-11-2013, 08:46 AM
I'm hearing Dee Millner in the 1st. Which will cause at least 50% of season ticket holders to creatively off themselves.

Rightfully so since it would be the wrong pick. If the Bills think they need another viable starting CB they really need to look at the FA market or trade to get a legit veteran. All the other corners are young and inexperienced and you absolutely need someone back there with some experience if you don't want to suck. Then again, maybe they want to take a measured approach to rebuilding given they will in all likelihood be breaking in a new quarterback - not to mention new schemes all around. Perhaps then next year is a throw away or adjustment season in which case you die with the young DBs and hope it all works out a few years from now.

It is depressing to think though, given the draft resources Buddy has invested in CBs, that they would need to draft another one so early in the draft. Unfortunate really.

Saratoga Slim
01-11-2013, 08:58 AM
Rightfully so since it would be the wrong pick. If the Bills think they need another viable starting CB they really need to look at the FA market or trade to get a legit veteran. All the other corners are young and inexperienced and you absolutely need someone back there with some experience if you don't want to suck. Then again, maybe they want to take a measured approach to rebuilding given they will in all likelihood be breaking in a new quarterback - not to mention new schemes all around. Perhaps then next year is a throw away or adjustment season in which case you die with the young DBs and hope it all works out a few years from now.

It is depressing to think though, given the draft resources Buddy has invested in CBs, that they would need to draft another one so early in the draft. Unfortunate really.

I agree that it would be ideal to find a vet FA cover corner if one's available.

Also not sure that Millner is a true cover guy. Profiles I've read seem to suggest that he'd have a higher ceiling in a zone system.

better days
01-12-2013, 09:17 AM
With the Pettine hire, I think it is very likely the Bills bring Merriman back. The Bills are sure to run a 3-4 some of the time. Just as Kurt Warner revived his career in Arizona after some down years, how great would it be if Merriman could revive his career in Buffalo?

Buddo
01-12-2013, 12:36 PM
With the Pettine hire, I think it is very likely the Bills bring Merriman back. The Bills are sure to run a 3-4 some of the time. Just as Kurt Warner revived his career in Arizona after some down years, how great would it be if Merriman could revive his career in Buffalo?

It would be great, but it seems to me he's lost his 'burst'. I think he's still a useful player though, and the one thing I would say about him, is that he seems pretty disciplined, and does what he's asked. If he's prepared to sign for vet minimums, then I think he'd probably be worth keeping around.
The improvements shown by Carrington and Moore, will probably see the likes of Kelsay and Merriman, very much under the microscope. We might still keep one of them, but I wouldn't be surprised to see both gone.
A guy who might well stick, is Spencer Johnson, who showed up a fair bit this year, and although he's getting on a bit, has more versatility than Kelsay, and doesn't get injured much.

As to the CB situation, I'd be fairly certain they will draft another one, but if you have one really good guy, you can shade help over to the other side more regularly. I wouldn't rule out either Williams or Brooks as taking the starting job opposite Gilmore, but I would want to see some sort of veteran picked up, who is trustworthy. Brooks has speed enough, but lacks in size, although I believe he has a very good vertical to help him. Williams problems stem more from a lack of elite speed than anything else, imho, and as of now, might just have only one or two games more experience than Gilmore. I think it could be too early to tell how good he might or might not, be. He strikes me as a footballer though, and moving him to safety, will probably work, should we have to do so. If we found or signed, a trustworthy CB to go opposite Gilmore from the get go, then I think the transition could be made this off-season, but I'm not totally convinced that it has to be done.

kishoph
01-12-2013, 12:40 PM
With the Pettine hire, I think it is very likely the Bills bring Merriman back. The Bills are sure to run a 3-4 some of the time. Just as Kurt Warner revived his career in Arizona after some down years, how great would it be if Merriman could revive his career in Buffalo?

I think they should think about bringing Merriman back, but I would like to see if he could be moved off the line, back to LB if/when they use a 3-4.

IAG
01-12-2013, 01:30 PM
Pettine is a great hire, but he is a 3-4 guy. This team has 4-3 personnel.

The Jokeman
01-13-2013, 01:29 PM
With the Pettine hire, I think it is very likely the Bills bring Merriman back. The Bills are sure to run a 3-4 some of the time. Just as Kurt Warner revived his career in Arizona after some down years, how great would it be if Merriman could revive his career in Buffalo?

Merriman's light's out days are over. As outside a slight spark in the preseason we've seen a dead battery in Merriman since his arrival. He wouldn't have even been in the league last year if it wasn't for Mark Anderson's injury. It time to turn the page. Instead of focusing on Merriman let's focus on re-signing Kyle Moore, who showed to be a good depth guy and getting Mario Williams and Mark Anderson back. Now if want to keep Merriman around in place of Chris Kelsay as the 4th DE/OLB then I'm willing to have that debate but I'd rather fill that role with a rookie, taken in the 5th or 6th Round who might also be able to contribute in ST and serve as a developmental type to evenally replace Anderson.

better days
01-13-2013, 11:33 PM
I think they should think about bringing Merriman back, but I would like to see if he could be moved off the line, back to LB if/when they use a 3-4.

Yeah, that is my thinking as well. I think they would want to limit his snaps so it could work out well.

better days
01-13-2013, 11:37 PM
Merriman's light's out days are over. As outside a slight spark in the preseason we've seen a dead battery in Merriman since his arrival. He wouldn't have even been in the league last year if it wasn't for Mark Anderson's injury. It time to turn the page. Instead of focusing on Merriman let's focus on re-signing Kyle Moore, who showed to be a good depth guy and getting Mario Williams and Mark Anderson back. Now if want to keep Merriman around in place of Chris Kelsay as the 4th DE/OLB then I'm willing to have that debate but I'd rather fill that role with a rookie, taken in the 5th or 6th Round who might also be able to contribute in ST and serve as a developmental type to evenally replace Anderson.

I agree resigning Moore is a priority. As others have said, there should be a lot of dead weight on this team cut before the season starts. There should be room for Merriman & a rookie DE/LB.

IlluminatusUIUC
01-13-2013, 11:48 PM
Regarding Anderson, as people have been noting about him for a while now, he is a 3rd down pass rushing specialist and not much else. This thought of converting him to a 3 down lineman or even a 3-4 OLB is a dangerous game. He's going into his 8th season (he came out in the same draft as Mario), and he has repeatedly proven he is not up to the task of run downs. We need a right end to spell him on first and second, be that Carrington, Moore, Kelsay, or draft pick to be named later.

Bunion
01-14-2013, 05:51 AM
For 34 and 46 looks, don't we need a freakish DE/OLB on the weak side? Because I don't think that guy's on our roster. Merriman's a bit player, while Moore and Anderson look undersized vs the run.

YardRat
01-14-2013, 06:08 AM
It isn't going to be easy to tell what this team's base is most of the time....that's going to be the beauty of it. Sure, Mario, Kyle, Marcel, Anderson (just for an example) are going to be on the line, but often they are going to be joined by Bradham, Sheppard, Moats (again, just an example) and the rushers/coverages are going to be disguised until the ball is snapped.

We definitely need another corner regardless of what schemes we run, and I'd prefer a vet over another draft pick.