Can we stop with the we passed over Dalton, Kaep, and Wilson

[DesertFox24]

Look it is well documented that we did not draft them and Aaron Williams has not played well so it does make it worse.

Wilson looks really good as well and no one knows if Graham will be good yet.

Point is they are not here and never will be so lets move on and talk about QBs we can get or trade for.

Here is the other thing no one has thought about had we drafted one of these three guys Gailey and company would still be here.

I do not know about you guys but I would much rather have Marrone and Pettine than those guys. For once the bills actually have two coaches on their staff that had other job offers, and they CHOOSE to be here. Feels good to actually have someone other people wanted.

I am friends with a Browns fan and I told him the Chud hire was just like Gailey, came out of no where, no one interviewed him, no one even talked about as head coach. Probably not be able to get any good names on his staff because no one thinks he will stick. Sad thing is the browns have more talent now than we did three years ago.

Bottom line Nix made a mistake, we all do and all GMs do. Everyone passed on Dalton, Kaep, and Wilson so I guess all 32 teams should fire their whole scouting staff.

Yes I am well aware unless Graham becomes a legit WR and we get a franchise QB those guys will haunt us, but nothing we can do about it now.

[THATHURMANATOR]

seriously!

Lets focus on getting our Wilson THIS SEASON.

Pressure is on though for sure. We need to hit on this or we are doomed for more failure.

[Mouldsie]

There isn't a Wilson in every draft. That's kind of the point though.

I also don't see anyone that broke the NCAA record for passing and rushing totals (Kaepernick)

There may be a Dalton, but I don't like Dalton.

I'm hoping we can land a franchise QB but you cant constantly pass on studs at the position thinking that there will be more every year; especially it being the most important position and not having had a QB in over a decade.

2014 looks better, though I hate to waste more time.

The odds are there will be 1 to emerge this year, we need to be the team that finds him if he's there.

[ServoBillieves]

...

Tajh Boyd.

[Skooby]

...

Tajh Boyd.

I read recently that he's staying in school. We also kept the GM that failed to get us a franchise QB, so I'd figure on some more F-ups before his time is over. A. Williams, oh man did we wet the bed there.

[Bill Cody]

There isn't a Wilson in every draft.

Every team has Wilsons, they make the balls

[trapezeus]

graham was open a lot when he played this year. clearly no R Wilson, but we get a QB who can throw accurately at 25-35 yards, and graham could become a real asset.

i wish teams looked at drafts in a 2 year cycle. reach for aR. Wilson because its a dead QB class coming. bills have put themselves in a crappy situation by not only avoiding a Franchise qb but just not having anyone servicable for next year.

[OpIv37]

No, we can't.

You know why?

Because those guys are winning while we are losing. The decision to pass on those guys bites us in the ass week in and week out. The choices may have been made a long time ago but the consequences aren't going away anytime soon.

If we ever start winning, then we can forge about it. But people are going to keep talking about it as long as it keeps getting shoved in our faces by them winning and us losing

[ServoBillieves]

Just read that Tajh is staying... well who knows with the rest of them.

[Skooby]

No, we can't.

You know why?

Because those guys are winning while we are losing. The decision to pass on those guys bites us in the ass week in and week out. The choices may have been made a long time ago but the consequences aren't going away anytime soon.

If we ever start winning, then we can forge about it. But people are going to keep talking about it as long as it keeps getting shoved in our faces by them winning and us losing

This is 13 years running as well, so it's not like it's been a short-term failure. How long can something bleed before it dies or goes away ?? Nix is part of the problem, the game has gone well past his ability to make the right final choices. Hopefully the coaching staff can work with the draft picks he deals them, I plan on this redo taking a few more years as well.

[EDS]

The lack of a QB, the failure of our GM to address the position in three separate drafts and the fact that it appears to be a down year for QB draft prospects is THE issue for a Bills franchise mired in suckitude for over a decade. It is the white elephant in the room. Nothing else regarding the near term future of the team is as important save the potential ownership transition given Ralph's age.

Ask yourself why a lame duck GM is being given the green light to make the call on draft day? Sure sounds like a built in excuse for failure for Brandon and company if you ask me.

[OpIv37]

This is 13 years running as well, so it's not like it's been a short-term failure. How long can something bleed before it dies or goes away ?? Nix is part of the problem, the game has gone well past his ability to make the right final choices. Hopefully the coaching staff can work with the draft picks he deals them, I plan on this redo taking a few more years as well.
That's another good point: the idiot responsible for passing on those guys is still in charge.

He hasn't gotten it right in the past. What logical reason is there to expect him to get it right now?

Until Nix is either gone or proves he has learned from his mistakes by finding a QB, then passing on those guys is still relevant discussion.

[justasportsfan]

leave it up to OP to turn another thread into a beachfest.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

i wish teams looked at drafts in a 2 year cycle. reach for aR. Wilson because its a dead QB class coming. bills have put themselves in a crappy situation by not only avoiding a Franchise qb but just not having anyone servicable for next year.

You can't know that far ahead of time. If Barkley had ripped through the NCAA like people anticipated and Smith hadn't slackened at the end of the year, people would be calling this a stacked QB class instead of a bust.

[notacon]

Look it is well documented that we did not draft them and Aaron Williams has not played well so it does make it worse.

Wilson looks really good as well and no one knows if Graham will be good yet.

Point is they are not here and never will be so lets move on and talk about QBs we can get or trade for.

Here is the other thing no one has thought about had we drafted one of these three guys Gailey and company would still be here.

I do not know about you guys but I would much rather have Marrone and Pettine than those guys. For once the bills actually have two coaches on their staff that had other job offers, and they CHOOSE to be here. Feels good to actually have someone other people wanted.

I am friends with a Browns fan and I told him the Chud hire was just like Gailey, came out of no where, no one interviewed him, no one even talked about as head coach. Probably not be able to get any good names on his staff because no one thinks he will stick. Sad thing is the browns have more talent now than we did three years ago.

Bottom line Nix made a mistake, we all do and all GMs do. Everyone passed on Dalton, Kaep, and Wilson so I guess all 32 teams should fire their whole scouting staff.

Yes I am well aware unless Graham becomes a legit WR and we get a franchise QB those guys will haunt us, but nothing we can do about it now.

The answer is NO!!! We should NEVER stop talking about the long and dismal history the Buffalo Bills have when it comes to QB's.

Those that ignore history are bound to repeat it.

I've wrote this many times, but, it cannot NEVER be forgotten.

In the 60+ year history of the Buffalo Bills, they have spent their first round pick on a QB, only TWICE. Jim Kelly, and JP Losman.

In the 60+ year history of the Buffalo Bills they have NEVER, not ONCE spent their first draft pick on a QB.

Remember, even Jim Kelly was NOT the Bills first pick that year. Tony Hunter was, the monumentally huge bust at TE.

The Bills have used their first pick on a Running back 10 TIMES.

The Bills have used their first pick on a Defensive back 10 TIMES.

But NEVER on a QB....inarguably the most important single position in any team sport.

As Bills fans, we must NEVER forget the total ineptness of the team owner. NEVER!

[Night Train]

So now we visit BB dot com and copy/paste threads from there ? This exact thread was started 3 hours before this one. :rofl:

Man overBORED !

[OpIv37]

leave it up to OP to turn another thread into a beachfest.

Once again, it's not about me. This message board is about the team, and like it or not, this team makes a lot of mistakes and the fans are justified in *****ing about them. I get really, really tired of watching guys we could have drafted winning week in and week out while the guys we chose instead are riding the pine during the season or playing golf during the playoffs.

[ServoBillieves]

The answer is NO!!! We should NEVER stop talking about the long and dismal history the Buffalo Bills have when it comes to QB's.

Those that ignore history are bound to repeat it.

I've wrote this many times, but, it cannot NEVER be forgotten.

In the 60+ year history of the Buffalo Bills, they have spent their first round pick on a QB, only TWICE. Jim Kelly, and JP Losman.

In the 60+ year history of the Buffalo Bills they have NEVER, not ONCE spent their first draft pick on a QB.

Remember, even Jim Kelly was NOT the Bills first pick that year. Tony Hunter was, the monumentally huge bust at TE.

The Bills have used their first pick on a Running back 10 TIMES.

The Bills have used their first pick on a Defensive back 10 TIMES.

But NEVER on a QB....inarguably the most important single position in any team sport.

As Bills fans, we must NEVER forget the total ineptness of the team owner. NEVER!

CAPITAL LETTERS! RAAAAH!

And don't diss the Losman pick, that was an amazing draft for the Bills. Dylan MacFarland and Tim Euhus are going to the HOF!

[DesertFox24]

So now we visit BB dot com and copy/paste threads from there ? This exact thread was started 3 hours before this one. :rofl:

Man overBORED !

Not be me I have same handle over there and never post on there.

[YardRat]

Look it is well documented that we did not draft them and Aaron Williams has not played well so it does make it worse.

Wilson looks really good as well and no one knows if Graham will be good yet.

Point is they are not here and never will be so lets move on and talk about QBs we can get or trade for.

Here is the other thing no one has thought about had we drafted one of these three guys Gailey and company would still be here.

I do not know about you guys but I would much rather have Marrone and Pettine than those guys. For once the bills actually have two coaches on their staff that had other job offers, and they CHOOSE to be here. Feels good to actually have someone other people wanted.

I am friends with a Browns fan and I told him the Chud hire was just like Gailey, came out of no where, no one interviewed him, no one even talked about as head coach. Probably not be able to get any good names on his staff because no one thinks he will stick. Sad thing is the browns have more talent now than we did three years ago.

Bottom line Nix made a mistake, we all do and all GMs do. Everyone passed on Dalton, Kaep, and Wilson so I guess all 32 teams should fire their whole scouting staff.

Yes I am well aware unless Graham becomes a legit WR and we get a franchise QB those guys will haunt us, but nothing we can do about it now.

Apparently he's got Norv Turner to come over as OC, so he's already light-years ahead of Gailey as far as picking a staff. Could end up being a good hire for Cleveland.

[psubills62]

What I never understood is why people thought that players like Kaepernick and Wilson would do as well in Buffalo as they would on their current teams. Have people seen Gailey coach? He couldn't use one of the most talented RB's in the league, and with RB's all you have to do is hand them the ball. Does anyone really think he'd be able to 1) develop a QB, and 2) change the offense to suit their strengths?

I'm really not that bothered by missing on those guys.

[BertSquirtgum]

Look it is well documented that we did not draft them and Aaron Williams has not played well so it does make it worse. Wilson looks really good as well and no one knows if Graham will be good yet. Point is they are not here and never will be so lets move on and talk about QBs we can get or trade for. Here is the other thing no one has thought about had we drafted one of these three guys Gailey and company would still be here. I do not know about you guys but I would much rather have Marrone and Pettine than those guys. For once the bills actually have two coaches on their staff that had other job offers, and they CHOOSE to be here. Feels good to actually have someone other people wanted. I am friends with a Browns fan and I told him the Chud hire was just like Gailey, came out of no where, no one interviewed him, no one even talked about as head coach. Probably not be able to get any good names on his staff because no one thinks he will stick. Sad thing is the browns have more talent now than we did three years ago. Bottom line Nix made a mistake, we all do and all GMs do. Everyone passed on Dalton, Kaep, and Wilson so I guess all 32 teams should fire their whole scouting staff. Yes I am well aware unless Graham becomes a legit WR and we get a franchise QB those guys will haunt us, but nothing we can do about it now. No.

[YardRat]

If front offices deserve perpetual criticism for passing over a guy or three that becomes successful or appears to be on the track to be successful, should they consistently get praise for not drafting the bums that were over-drafted by somebody else, fail to make other teams, or are schlepped out of the league before their rookie contract is half done?

[Mouldsie]

You can't know that far ahead of time. If Barkley had ripped through the NCAA like people anticipated and Smith hadn't slackened at the end of the year, people would be calling this a stacked QB class instead of a bust.
I never anticipated Barkely being a worthy pick and Smith actually exceeded expectations. Tyler Wilson was and remains the only 1st round projection that intrigues me. I think that poster has a point and looking ahead to the next draft class should be considered when making decisions.

[Mouldsie]

If front offices deserve perpetual criticism for passing over a guy or three that becomes successful or appears to be on the track to be successful, should they consistently get praise for not drafting the bums that were over-drafted by somebody else, fail to make other teams, or are schlepped out of the league before their rookie contract is half done?
The Spiller pick was great and I praised it then and still do now!

[YardRat]

The Spiller pick was great and I praised it then and still do now!

I was thinking more along the lines of QB's specifically that Buffalo didn't draft, and also didn't amount to **** anywhere else.

[Mouldsie]

I cant think of many examples....

I know we passed on Aaron Rodgers so we could get JP Losman the year before.... and that year we passed on Matt Schaub as well to do so.... and in recent memory most of the young QB's have been mentioned and have done pretty well.

I might praise them for passing on Dalton. Aaron Williams' struggles at CB and having no franchise QB on the roster make it harder though.

[BertSquirtgum]

I won't stop harping on it until Buddy Nix is fired or proves me wrong. I think he is a buffoon.

[cookie G]

It isn't merely missing on Wilson or Kaepernick, it is an issue of strategic planning that has produced the worst results possible, with opportunity costs that are staggering.

A man came here 3 years ago with a plan to build a dominating defense. 2/3 of the top draft picks and most of the lower picks went for that purpose, as did 90% of the FA money. When you allocate that many assets to one side of the ball, you better produce a dominant force.

And for that price, the end product is 3 of the worst D's in Bills' history. The most recent year, the "breakout" year, missed the notorious record of giving up the most points in team history (keeping the formidable 1984's defense record intact).

For the price of building 3 of the worst D's in Bills history..what was lost?

What if..instead of saying "I'm going to build a dominant D", he said, "I'm going to build a balls to the wall offense and get the weapons to do it".

Well...had he not been worried about building a 3-4...your receiving corps could look like this:

SJ
AJ Green or Julio Jones
Gronk
Jimmy Graham

You'd still have Spiller, and if you were smart, you would keep Lynch.

You could have Kaepernick or Wilson (or both) throwing to 4 Pro Bowlers.

With the money spent on Mario, Anderson, Barnett, Merriman etc., you could buy an entire additional Oline in FA'cy. And not just scrubs, mind you, some pretty solid starters, with a Pro Bowler or 2 mixed in.

For what was spent on the D, you could have rebuilt your offense and then some. Hell, you literally could have built 2 offenses. You want to run people into the ground with an up tempo, no huddle offense? With that number of weapons, and that amount of depth on the oline...you could give fresh legs throughout the game. Damn..you could almost do line changes like in hockey. Wait for the D to get winded...send in fresh legs.

And here's the kicker...your D would be no worse off than it is right now.

Would Gailey still be here? Yeah, he'd probably be in the playoffs.

This isn't about missing on a single QB. It is about a deliberate decision that was made several years ago, which was the reason for the misses at QB, as well as a great deal of other misses.

[cookie G]

I cant think of many examples....

I know we passed on Aaron Rodgers so we could get JP Losman the year before.... and that year we passed on Matt Schaub as well to do so.... and in recent memory most of the young QB's have been mentioned and have done pretty well.

I might praise them for passing on Dalton. Aaron Williams' struggles at CB and having no franchise QB on the roster make it harder though.

We passed on Flacco to get McLovin;
We passed on Cutler to get Whitner;
We passed on Freeman to get Maybin;

Generally, when we've done OK with our 1st round pick (Lynch, Dareus) there wasn't a decent QB available.

But when we reach, and end up busting on someone (Whitner, McLovin, Maybin, Aaron Williams), we're usually passing over a pretty good QB.

Moral of the story...do NOT waste high picks on a stupid DB when there is a QB available.

[Extremebillsfan247]

No matter which GM you have here, your always going to second guess his decisions on who he drafted, and who he passed on after the fact. Dwelling on those decisions will never result in this team changing it's drafting philosophies. All we can do is hope they eventually get it right. The last thing anyone here wants is for this team to jump at drafting Kaepernick, just to watch him turn into another JP Losman, or Trent Edwards. In short, this team doesn't have a lot of luck with drafting QB's anyway. Even Jim Kelly when drafted by the Bills, refused to play here, and left for the USFL. The only reason he became a Bill is because the USFL flopped, and Buffalo was the only NFL team Kelly was allowed to negotiate a contract with. Hopefully Doug Marrone, and Nathaniel Hackett can change that luck. But, I'm not counting on it much. lol JMO

[IlluminatusUIUC]

No matter which GM you have here, your always going to second guess his decisions on who he drafted, and who he passed on after the fact. Dwelling on those decisions will never result in this team changing it's drafting philosophies. All we can do is hope they eventually get it right. The last thing anyone here wants is for this team to jump at drafting Kaepernick, just to watch him turn into another JP Losman, or Trent Edwards. In short, this team doesn't have a lot of luck with drafting QB's anyway. Even Jim Kelly when drafted by the Bills, refused to play here, and left for the USFL. The only reason he became a Bill is because the USFL flopped, and Buffalo was the only NFL team Kelly was allowed to negotiate a contract with. Hopefully Doug Marrone, and Nathaniel Hackett can change that luck. But, I'm not counting on it much. lol JMO

We've drafted 5 QBs in twenty years. FIVE. Of them, only two were in the top 50 picks (Collins and Losman) and they were the 3rd and 4th QBs off the board, respectively. As pointed out above, we have never drafted a QB with our first pick in the draft, and we've never drafted the Top QB in any class.

To some degree, you have to make your own luck here. You can't keep picking up other teams' scraps and hoping they pan out.

[trapezeus]

two things from what i read

1. cookie g...that is fascinating that we went big for d and put out such a putrid defense. what makes it even more questionable is that they hired an offensive minded coach who worked with no names to be fairly respectable. you give him a guy who could deliver the pass his brain was thinking, you'd have had a great offense. why not help your strength get stronger?

2. we have so many busts, but what part of it is the total team package. losman fell apart from his first snap where he kicked hte ball out of his hands and you just knew from that moment that he was lost. But we don't have any coaching. i wanted kaepernick that year, but watching him play, i don't think the bills would have provided him guidance. perhaps he ends up like a losman. the only qb i think that would have been too smart to be ruined is wilson. he's just a leader and gets people to follow him. he's infectious.

i agree the bills make boneheaded selections, but i wonder if they could have salvaged some of these picks and i wonder if the people who have had sucess like dalton, kaepernick, flaccos (mid level good qb's) would have been able to to overcome their mistakes when in buffalo. I think we need to find a QB who can play day one and can play like no one else has ever played. or else you'll get the negativity around him and then the player falls apart.

[Novacane]

Look it is well documented that we did not draft them and Aaron Williams has not played well so it does make it worse.

Wilson looks really good as well and no one knows if Graham will be good yet.

Point is they are not here and never will be so lets move on and talk about QBs we can get or trade for.

Here is the other thing no one has thought about had we drafted one of these three guys Gailey and company would still be here.

I do not know about you guys but I would much rather have Marrone and Pettine than those guys. For once the bills actually have two coaches on their staff that had other job offers, and they CHOOSE to be here. Feels good to actually have someone other people wanted.

I am friends with a Browns fan and I told him the Chud hire was just like Gailey, came out of no where, no one interviewed him, no one even talked about as head coach. Probably not be able to get any good names on his staff because no one thinks he will stick. Sad thing is the browns have more talent now than we did three years ago.

Bottom line Nix made a mistake, we all do and all GMs do. Everyone passed on Dalton, Kaep, and Wilson so I guess all 32 teams should fire their whole scouting staff.

Yes I am well aware unless Graham becomes a legit WR and we get a franchise QB those guys will haunt us, but nothing we can do about it now.


32 teams were not in desperate need of a QB

[IlluminatusUIUC]

two things from what i read

1. cookie g...that is fascinating that we went big for d and put out such a putrid defense. what makes it even more questionable is that they hired an offensive minded coach who worked with no names to be fairly respectable. you give him a guy who could deliver the pass his brain was thinking, you'd have had a great offense. why not help your strength get stronger?

Yeah that seems to be a lot of teams' strategy: Hire a "guru" to handle one side of the ball and then try to stock the other side with the high picks to make up for it.


2. we have so many busts, but what part of it is the total team package. losman fell apart from his first snap where he kicked hte ball out of his hands and you just knew from that moment that he was lost. But we don't have any coaching. i wanted kaepernick that year, but watching him play, i don't think the bills would have provided him guidance. perhaps he ends up like a losman. the only qb i think that would have been too smart to be ruined is wilson. he's just a leader and gets people to follow him. he's infectious.

i agree the bills make boneheaded selections, but i wonder if they could have salvaged some of these picks and i wonder if the people who have had sucess like dalton, kaepernick, flaccos (mid level good qb's) would have been able to to overcome their mistakes when in buffalo. I think we need to find a QB who can play day one and can play like no one else has ever played. or else you'll get the negativity around him and then the player falls apart.

Flacco, Eli, Cutler, etc all have to deal with FAR more criticism then anyone receives in Buffalo. If a guy is too mentally fragile to handle message board whiners, then the NFL isn't for him to begin with.

[Novacane]

What I never understood is why people thought that players like Kaepernick and Wilson would do as well in Buffalo as they would on their current teams. Have people seen Gailey coach? He couldn't use one of the most talented RB's in the league, and with RB's all you have to do is hand them the ball. Does anyone really think he'd be able to 1) develop a QB, and 2) change the offense to suit their strengths?

I'm really not that bothered by missing on those guys.


Wouldn't!

[trapezeus]

i kind of agree with that, but my point is that buffalo dismisses people with potential immediately. then the team also wants that player to be the answer and provides no additional support or help. "we drafted a qb in first round. he has to be awesome." and then when he has a little failure, the coaches meddle adn the players call for the head.

better teams seem to help finding complementing players, back ups, etc to take the pressure off. so unlessyou are an andrew luck or some star who can deliver on expecations early, the bills typical method will leave you SOL.

[Cleve]

There are mistakes, and then there are mistakes. The Bills make far more of these sorts of 'mistakes' than almost any other team. So of course we'll keep discussing them. And it's not as if Nix has made one little mistake in a field of stunningly brilliant choices. He's been average at best. Don't forget - for a long time Nix bought into Gailey's idiotic contention that Blitzpatrick was the 'franchise quarterback' - it wasn't until this season was clearly lost that Nix finally started proclaiming that he needed to draft a QB.

[Mike]

graham was open a lot when he played this year. clearly no R Wilson, but we get a QB who can throw accurately at 25-35 yards, and graham could become a real asset.

i wish teams looked at drafts in a 2 year cycle. reach for aR. Wilson because its a dead QB class coming. bills have put themselves in a crappy situation by not only avoiding a Franchise qb but just not having anyone servicable for next year.


they should be looking 4-5 years out...
the difficulty is in the fact that its a Win now league so it's in the GM & coaching staffs interest to take a Losman now with the hope he will be decent than wait a year for a higher graded Rogers.

Taking a team from 4 wins to 10 wins with an ok QB in 3 years is in their interest more so than having 3 bad years & taking a franchise QB in the 4th year, a year most poor FOs don't get. So teams are more willing to sacrifice the future for a few more wins now.

[The Jokeman]

The Spiller pick was great and I praised it then and still do now!

Was it? Imagine had we kept Lynch and drafted say Dez Bryant instead of Spiller, was it still a brilliant pick?

[OpIv37]

Was it? Imagine had we kept Lynch and drafted say Dez Bryant instead of Spiller, was it still a brilliant pick?

yes, but only because we would have had Fitz throwing to Dez Bryant and he'd be wasted.

[The Jokeman]

yes, but only because we would have had Fitz throwing to Dez Bryant and he'd be wasted.

Come on now, Fitz played a big role in what's made Stevie Johnson what he is. Which to me is a top 15 WR in the NFL. You can't tell me that Bryant wouldn't look way better than Donald Jones. I do blame Fitz for a lot of our offensive woes but at the same time I think it's due to lack of his own talent (see 7th Round pick) and lack of surrounding talent around him.

[BertSquirtgum]

Come on now, Fitz played a big role in what's made Stevie Johnson what he is. Which to me is a top 15 WR in the NFL. You can't tell me that Bryant wouldn't look way better than Donald Jones. I do blame Fitz for a lot of our offensive woes but at the same time I think it's due to lack of his own talent (see 7th Round pick) and lack of surrounding talent around him. Fitz played a big role in this team sucking dick.

[Albany,n.y.]

I won't be happy until Buddy Nix goes on WGR and apologizes to all Bills fans for his stupidity and announces his retirement.

[Bert102176]

Well we also could of had orakpo, and ngata not QB's but they would of helped a lot on our D

[Bert102176]

And countless other players we could of had but no need to bring it up just pisses me off how stupid the former staffs were, time to look forward and hope this team can finnally get stuff right

[Mike]

Look it is well documented that we did not draft them and Aaron Williams has not played well so it does make it worse.

Wilson looks really good as well and no one knows if Graham will be good yet.

Point is they are not here and never will be so lets move on and talk about QBs we can get or trade for.

Agreed. That being said next time the Bills FO makes questionable moves can posters on this board move past calling other posters negative for pointing out these bad moves? That's the irritating part. I have no control over the Bills & when they screw up and it's pointed out that poster in turn gets criticized only to be 100% right 3 years later at which point very few are even willing to acknowledge the foresight and excuse the behavior by brining up 20/20 hindsight.

Here is the other thing no one has thought about had we drafted one of these three guys Gailey and company would still be here.

If they were good enough to draft & develop those guys than they would deserve to be here.

I do not know about you guys but I would much rather have Marrone and Pettine than those guys. For once the bills actually have two coaches on their staff that had other job offers, and they CHOOSE to be here. Feels good to actually have someone other people wanted.

I am friends with a Browns fan and I told him the Chud hire was just like Gailey, came out of no where, no one interviewed him, no one even talked about as head coach. Probably not be able to get any good names on his staff because no one thinks he will stick. Sad thing is the browns have more talent now than we did three years ago.

Bottom line Nix made a mistake, we all do and all GMs do. Everyone passed on Dalton, Kaep, and Wilson so I guess all 32 teams should fire their whole scouting staff.

That makes zero sense. Pats, GB, NYG, Car, NO, etc... All have their Franchise QB. Other teams like Atl, Balt, Texans, SD, Chi, Cowboys, etc all have QBs that are good enough. So a good portion of teams did not have a QB need. further, there was other good players available to meet other team needs. Who would you rather have Dalton or AJ Green? There is a reason why Green was picked first. Now, when a team desperate for a QB passes on one in the second round so they could instead reach for a DB then critism insues. When they do it 3 times in 3 years then anger insues.

Yes I am well aware unless Graham becomes a legit WR and we get a franchise QB those guys will haunt us, but nothing we can do about it now.

There is a changing of the guard in the NFL and unless the Bills get one of the future HOF QBs they will not win a SB for the next 15+ years. So yes it will haunt us!

[Mouldsie]

Was it? Imagine had we kept Lynch and drafted say Dez Bryant instead of Spiller, was it still a brilliant pick?
I loved Lynch. I'm a Cal guy. I had Lynch in my mock from day 1 when we drafted him.

That said, Spiller was a dynamic playmaker, we didnt have many, and he was probably the BPA. Lynch also had kind of been run out of town at that point. I didnt want him to go but most people did and it was kind of inevitable.

Either way I have no problem with a 3 headed attack either.

If we went with a WR I wanted Demaryious Thomas and I think he will have the better career. More reliable.

[Mike]

What I never understood is why people thought that players like Kaepernick and Wilson would do as well in Buffalo as they would on their current teams. Have people seen Gailey coach? He couldn't use one of the most talented RB's in the league, and with RB's all you have to do is hand them the ball. Does anyone really think he'd be able to 1) develop a QB, and 2) change the offense to suit their strengths?

I'm really not that bothered by missing on those guys.

I hope you realize that there are different grades of Talent who would make it no matter the conditions which is why bad teams have some good players ala this years Chiefs team that sent 5 players to PB!

1) Wilson would have had great success here.
2) Kaepernick almost as much, he's a very talented guy.
3) Dalton would have done less.
* To think a Marino, Brady, Manning are 100% byproducts of a system is irrational. That they wouldn't make it here is silly.

[pmoon6]

My prediction is RGIII, Kaepernick and Russell Wilson won't last that long. But, envy and cry now, it's what Bills' Fans have turned into.

[OpIv37]

My prediction is RGIII, Kaepernick and Russell Wilson won't last that long. But, envy and cry now, it's what Bills' Fans have turned into.

Yeah, we should just shut up and be satisfied with double digit losses as long as we still have a team, right?

[psubills62]

I hope you realize that there are different grades of Talent who would make it no matter the conditions which is why bad teams have some good players ala this years Chiefs team that sent 5 players to PB!

1) Wilson would have had great success here.
2) Kaepernick almost as much, he's a very talented guy.
3) Dalton would have done less.
* To think a Marino, Brady, Manning are 100% byproducts of a system is irrational. That they wouldn't make it here is silly.
Gee, thanks for the education. Good grief.

What basis are you using to claim #1 and #2? First of all, I don't believe either one would have gotten the appropriate coaching. There's a reason Kaepernick rode the bench for nearly two years. Wilson doesn't appear to have needed coaching. But watching either one of those teams - Seattle or San Fran - which one looked anything like our offense?

Neither of those guys are pocket passers and I've seen nothing to believe Gailey would have adjusted the offense to help either one move the pocket or take advantage of their running abilities. The zone reads developed by each team have really helped their offenses explode.

[EDS]

Gee, thanks for the education. Good grief.

What basis are you using to claim #1 and #2? First of all, I don't believe either one would have gotten the appropriate coaching. There's a reason Kaepernick rode the bench for nearly two years. Wilson doesn't appear to have needed coaching. But watching either one of those teams - Seattle or San Fran - which one looked anything like our offense?

Neither of those guys are pocket passers and I've seen nothing to believe Gailey would have adjusted the offense to help either one move the pocket or take advantage of their running abilities. The zone reads developed by each team have really helped their offenses explode.

You cannot use Gailey's ugly track record as coach to justify poor drafting by the Bills' incumbent GM. Besides, Gailey has worked with mobile QBs in the past so the concept should not be totally lost on him.

Why Buddy put all of the Bills eggs in the basket of a career backup is puzzling and now the franchise is unfortunately backed into the corner of needed to get a QB in an off-season where not much talent is available.

[Mouldsie]

Gailey has an ugly offensive track record?

[Mr. Pink]

Dalton is no better Fitz so why anyone likes/wants/clamors for him baffles me...

If we took Wilson or Kaepernick, neither would have seen the field anyway and would have taken TJax clipboard role.

So what's the point in these threads?

Go back and blame Butler for not taking Tom Brady in round 5 and these other guys are all meaningless.

[EDS]

Dalton is no better Fitz so why anyone likes/wants/clamors for him baffles me...

If we took Wilson or Kaepernick, neither would have seen the field anyway and would have taken TJax clipboard role.

So what's the point in these threads?

Go back and blame Butler for not taking Tom Brady in round 5 and these other guys are all meaningless.

Do you really think even someone as challenged as Gailey could not figure out he was better off with Wilson on the field versus Fitz? Fitz was on the field because Gailey had zero other viable options at QB thanks to Buddy.

[justasportsfan]

Do you really think even someone as challenged as Gailey could not figure out he was better off with Wilson on the field versus Fitz? Fitz was on the field because Gailey had zero other viable options at QB thanks to Buddy.

Gailey thinks it takes time to learn his playbook. That is why he stuck with Fitz and Thigpen over TJ

[psubills62]

You cannot use Gailey's ugly track record as coach to justify poor drafting by the Bills' incumbent GM. Besides, Gailey has worked with mobile QBs in the past so the concept should not be totally lost on him.

Why Buddy put all of the Bills eggs in the basket of a career backup is puzzling and now the franchise is unfortunately backed into the corner of needed to get a QB in an off-season where not much talent is available.
Straw man, much? Where was I justifying anything?

I don't worry about players we don't draft, especially outside of the first round.

[EDS]

Gailey thinks it takes time to learn his playbook. That is why he stuck with Fitz and Thigpen over TJ

Maybe, but it is not like Jackson is really any better either, so might as well stick with the guys that know the playbook.

[Mike]

Dalton is no better Fitz so why anyone likes/wants/clamors for him baffles me...

Im not a big Dalton fan however he is much better than Fitz & improving.

If we took Wilson or Kaepernick, neither would have seen the field anyway and would have taken TJax clipboard role.

You have no way of knowing what would have happened. Wilson impressed Seattle so much that they put the QB that they signed in the offseason from GB on the bench -a guy they gave a lot of money to. The coaching staff pretty much put their fate in his hands. Obviously, they had big reasons to do so.

So what's the point in these threads?

What the point of any thread?

Go back and blame Butler for not taking Tom Brady in round 5 and these other guys are all meaningless.

Apples & oranges. Brady was an outlier, he falls into the 20/20 hindsight category. Others like Kaepernick, who set NCAA records & Wilson who would have been a top 5 pick had he been 2-3 inches taller & not left college football in order to play pro baseball also falls into that we should have known better category.

Lastly look at team needs. During Brady draft Bills thought they had their QB. In 2012 draft they KNEW they didn't.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe, but it is not like Jackson is really any better either, so might as well stick with the guys that know the playbook.

which is why Russell Wilson would have been on the bench. Fitz didn't stink enough (like Trent Edwards) to make Gailey think that Wilson could just win the job especially since Gailey wasn't running the read option. Carroll on the other hand knows the read option more than Chan and it's no surprise Wilson beat out Flynn.

[EDS]

which is why Russell Wilson would have been on the bench. Fitz didn't stink enough (like Trent Edwards) to make Gailey think that Wilson could just win the job especially since Gailey wasn't running the read option. Carroll on the other hand knows the read option more than Chan and it's no surprise Wilson beat out Flynn.

You don't think there is a massive gulf in ability between Wilson and Fitz such that even Chan Gailey could not figure out who should play?

[Mr. Pink]

You don't think there is a massive gulf in ability between Wilson and Fitz such that even Chan Gailey could not figure out who should play?

Gailey, nor us, wouldn't have known that Wilson had this ability if he was drafted here.

That's the point.

The dude would have been the third string QB from the word go and stayed there.

[cookie G]

two things from what i read

1. cookie g...that is fascinating that we went big for d and put out such a putrid defense. You'd probably have to go back to the 70's to show a Bills D with so much spent on it and so little improvement. In fact, it got worse.

Going back 3 years...I can't think of a good offense this defense actually stopped. Pittsburgh a few years ago is about as close.



what makes it even more questionable is that they hired an offensive minded coach who worked with no names to be fairly respectable. you give him a guy who could deliver the pass his brain was thinking, you'd have had a great offense. why not help your strength get stronger?

That's because Buddy was soooo myopic about his defense. But then, when you have your defensive scheme in mind before you hire your HC, much less your DC...it is hard not to be myopic.

I don't know if it is that unusual in football, or in other forms of life, that people try to bring in a "guru" to cover for more substantive deficiencies.

The bring in the expert and say, "improve things".
The expert says, "here's what I need".
The expert gets ignored.
When things predictably go wrong..they say, "hey, you're supposed to be the expert."

It doesn't work that way.

[YardRat]

Wannstadt was supposed to be an expert, some of us knew he wasn't.
To his credit, Wannstadt said "I need defensive ends", and he was right.
Nix and Co spent well over $100mil on defensive ends in free agency, so the 'expert' wasn't ignored.
Wannstadt was, predictably, fired for being a piss poor coach.

That's exactly how it worked.

[cookie G]

Wannstadt was supposed to be an expert, some of us knew he wasn't.
To his credit, Wannstadt said "I need defensive ends", and he was right.
Nix and Co spent well over $100mil on defensive ends in free agency, so the 'expert' wasn't ignored.
Wannstadt was, predictably, fired for being a piss poor coach.

That's exactly how it worked.

Yep.

Of course, that doesn't explain the other 2 years of suckatude under the Rebuilding Program.

This will be the 3rd DC in 4 years. Most likely you're also looking at the 3rd LB corps in 4 years also.

They've already went through 2 DL's (with the exception of KW) and half the secondary.

With all of the Orange faces popping up at OBD these days, I'm sure someone is going to recommend the 2-3 zone.

[Mike]

You don't think there is a massive gulf in ability between Wilson and Fitz such that even Chan Gailey could not figure out who should play?

Thats a real irony isn't it? One one hand the very same people who supported Gaily the most because of his Title as HC and Authority on All Things Football are now the very same people who claim that Gaily would not be able to tell the difference between a Top NFL QB and a bottom NFL QB, between a Manning and a high school QB.


If anything, Gaily has had a decent record with sub-par QBs.

[Mike]

Gailey, nor us, wouldn't have known that Wilson had this ability if he was drafted here.

That's the point.

The dude would have been the third string QB from the word go and stayed there.

Your not only making an assumption but a baseless one. You arguing a moot point and providing a justification for not drafting Wilson based on something you have no way of knowing nor how it would play out. You dont know what would have happened.

Even if you are right, I WOULD STILL RATHER HAVE WILSON THAN NOT.
REGARDLESS IF WE *KNEW* WHAT WE HAVE I WOULD RATHER HAVE HIM.

*Most likely, a coach that is facing the firing squad, would put in the rookie QB in the second half of the season at latest with the hope that that QB can show something which can in turn save the coaches job oppose to losing it out right. It shows the fans, see we got it right, were on the right track, give me one or two more years. It gives hope, and is worth the chance. By the way, Wilson is a learner, he is very smart and knows the playbook in and out. He is known for being a hard working and intelligent players, the rare type of self motivator that succeeds is most circumstances.