Flyers at Sabres GDT!!

[Skooby]

Woo hoo, game on!!! Go SAbres!!!!!!

[YardRat]

:gosabres:

Miller better be on a Vezina track this season, considering I puled him in my fantasy draft.

[YardRat]

Getting some hits in, but (expectedly, I suppose) the passing/puck control has been shaky. Hopefully they get the feel of a real game back here late in the first.

[YardRat]

OTTER SMOKES A PPG !!!!!

[MikeInRoch]

That was a nice PP all around.

[Crisis]

Did Pierre just ask Lindy why he and K. Adams were celebrating a goal?

[Crisis]

Well that no goal was pretty lucky... terrible call but i'll take it.

[Typ0]

yep that is what he asked him...

[OpIv37]

Looking good after 1. Philly's only sustained pressure came on their goal that was waived off.

Sabres were good on both the PP and PK, and they are definitely more physical. Hopefully they can sustain that.

My only concern is the top scorers like Vanek and Pominville not finishing on a couple of great chances. Granted, it's one period, but that's been this team's biggest problem over the last few years. Those guys have to finish those kinds of opportunities if this team is gonna make the playoffs.

[OpIv37]

Looking like **** in the 2nd. Same old Sabres: play one good period and hope it's enough to win while sleep-walking through the other 2.

[Crisis]

wow that pass by grigs

i was going to write an angry post about the last two goals but holy **** ott should've scored that after that pass

[YardRat]

****ing Hartnell :mad: . They better cash in on this PP, or at least beat the **** out of somebody.

[YardRat]

wow that pass by grigs

i was going to write an angry post about the last two goals but holy **** ott should've scored that after that pass

Kid has talent. I hope they keep him up and let him grow at this level instead of sending him elsewhere after a 5 game audition.

[Crisis]

god i missed this so much

[YardRat]

My only concern is the top scorers like Vanek and Pominville not finishing on a couple of great chances.

I think that second goal qualifies as a pretty good finish by Vanek.

[OpIv37]

Glad Vanek decided to show up finally.

[YardRat]

Glad Vanek decided to show up finally.

:rofl:

How dare he wait until the end of the second period in the first game of the season!

[Crisis]

Vanek has looked like **** but he's been involved in both goals.

I love Ott's energy

[Crisis]

good on stafford for sticking up for ennis

[YardRat]

Good for Stafford taking one for the team...that's a good sign, even though I thought he was going to get destroyed.

[OpIv37]

:rofl:

How dare he wait until the end of the second period in the first game of the season!

I'm not just talking about scoring. He was generating no opportunities and playing like **** in D.

If the highest paid player on the team doesn't show up for the first 35 minutes, it's a guaranteed formula for losing.

[OpIv37]

It's about time someone took out that ***** Hartnell. Just wish it was someone bigger than Stafford.

[Crisis]

reputation call on ott. bull****

[Typ0]

well they managed to get gritty and salvage a lousy period. That is promising!

[OpIv37]

Yeah that call was terrible. I've seen far more obvious dives than that not called.

[OpIv37]

The whole third before that penalty has been in Buffalo's zone. They need to get something going on this PP.

[Crisis]

buffalo looks like they're the team that played last night. jeez

[Crisis]

regehr looks horrible in the o-zone but then makes it up for by tying his man up and saving a goal.

[JATMtheJATM]

nerve racking game thus far.

[OpIv37]

They have to finish this in regulation. It's way too early in the season to be giving up points at home to a team that played and had to travel yesterday.

[YardRat]

Geez, the national announcers are all over the Flyer's coaching staff's nuts...wtf?

[Crisis]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Crisis]

**** hartnell

[JATMtheJATM]

MYERS!

[YardRat]

Time to send Scott after Hartnell next time that pc of **** hits the ice.

[Skooby]

Finish this.

[Crisis]

COHO! **** yes

[OpIv37]

Vanek fails to finish again but at least he set Hogson up. Nice goal.

[Crisis]

that better not get overturned not a kick at all

[Crisis]

ok now send scott out there to send hartnell into next week

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Vanek fails to finish again but at least he set Hogson up. Nice goal.

yeah that guy with 4 points tonight needs to finish better

[YardRat]

Great review by the officials...the puck hit Hodgon's stick, off his skate, and then off the stick again just as it was crossing the line.

[Typ0]

Vanek fails to finish again but at least he set Hogson up. Nice goal.

so he got two breakaways today. Scored on the first and the rebound on the second was a goal ... but you are saying he doesn't finish? You twist too much coach speak into oblivion.

[YardRat]

C'MON LINDY SEND A DAMN MESSAGE...BEAT THE **** OUT OF SOMEBODY!!!

[Typ0]

Basically what OP is saying is that Vanek needs to score a single handed goal every shift he's on the ice or he sucks.

[Crisis]

wow quick whistle saves us.

[MikeInRoch]

WOW lucky early whistle on that one.

[OpIv37]

so he got two breakaways today. Scored on the first and the rebound on the second was a goal ... but you are saying he doesn't finish? You twist too much coach speak into oblivion.

He didn't finish on the 2nd one- Hogson did. And he had other plays that weren't breakaways that he should have finished.

[Typ0]

Vanek finished but that doesn't count because there was no goalie I am sure...

[Crisis]

5 point night for vanek not too shabby

[OpIv37]

Solid win and a good start to the season.

[Typ0]

He didn't finish on the 2nd one- Hogson did. And he had other plays that weren't breakaways that he should have finished.

So what constitutes finishing? Only scoring? Because I think he finished on the 2nd one even thought it didn't go into the net.

[OpIv37]

Vanek finished but that doesn't count because there was no goalie I am sure...

Really? Unchallenged open net? Please....

[MikeInRoch]

2 goals and 3 assists. What a crappy game Vanek had.

[Crisis]

can we all just agree how ****ing amazing it is to be able to enjoy a sabres win again?

[Crisis]

and is it me or does coho look like a much better skater than last year? he was flying.

[OpIv37]

So what constitutes finishing? Only scoring? Because I think he finished on the 2nd one even thought it didn't go into the net.

Of course only scoring. What if Hogson couldn't finish it either or if they called it a kick?

Vanek takes up a huge chunk of cap space. That's money that can't be spent on other players. If he doesn't finish those plays, this team isn't going to win. See the past 4 seasons.

To be fair though, he stepped it up at the end of the game. If he keeps playing like this, the Sabres should win a lot of games. But I'll believe it when I see it because in the past, he hasn't been able to sustain that success.

[Skooby]

Sweet.

[OpIv37]

2 goals and 3 assists. What a crappy game Vanek had.

Yeah, you didn't see his horrific defensive plays or the chances he missed? He made some great plays and some terrible ones. The highest paid guy in any league with a salary cap can't make horrible plays if the team is going to be successful.

[Crisis]

http://i.imgur.com/ZPSeljP.jpg

[Crisis]

Yeah, you didn't see his horrific defensive plays or the chances he missed? He made some great plays and some terrible ones. The highest paid guy in any league with a salary cap can't make horrible plays if the team is going to be successful.

He had a rough start but his all around game was pretty good after that. Only you would complain about his missed chances in a 5 point game.

[MikeInRoch]

Yeah, you didn't see his horrific defensive plays or the chances he missed? He made some great plays and some terrible ones. The highest paid guy in any league with a salary cap can't make horrible plays if the team is going to be successful.

I'll let him make a couple horrible plays in any game in which he gets 5 points.

[JATMtheJATM]

Really? Unchallenged open net? Please....

patrick stefans biggest opponent.

[Skooby]

I'll let him make a couple horrible plays in any game in which he gets 5 points.

Yeah, it's forgivable.

[OpIv37]

I'll let him make a couple horrible plays in any game in which he gets 5 points.

Don't hold your breath on that. Today was the only time he's ever done it.

[OpIv37]

He had a rough start but his all around game was pretty good after that. Only you would complain about his missed chances in a 5 point game.

But he won't have 5 points every game. We won't be playing such a horrible PK team on the 2nd night of a back to back every game. Vanek missing chances is a major reason why this team has sucked for the last 4 years. Sure, you can look at things in a vacuum and say "well it's ok because he had 5 points," but I find it very disconcerting when I see the same things that have plagued this team in the past immediately manifest themselves again.

[JoeMama]

Man that felt good to watch the Sabres finally.

A kickass win is just icing on the cake.

Welcome back NHL, you greedy bastards. We still love you!

[MikeInRoch]

Have you ever shown definitively that Vanek "misses more chances" than other top players in the league?

[YardRat]

Yeah, you didn't see his horrific defensive plays or the chances he missed? He made some great plays and some terrible ones. The highest paid guy in any league with a salary cap can't make horrible plays if the team is going to be successful.

If you can pull up any performance by an individual in any hockey game that qualifies as perfect, feel free to post it.

[Typ0]

OP it is clear you are being overtly and unreasonably critical. It's still a long season there are a lot of chances he finished on some and that is what we need him to do. Start bantering when he has one of his patent slumps with lack of finishing and then we will listen. Until then you are just being a blow hard...

- - - Updated - - -


If you can pull up any performance by an individual in any hockey game that qualifies as perfect, feel free to post it.

I don't know about you man ... but I always finish!

[SkateZilla]

Officials sucked royal... both ways.

[OpIv37]

Have you ever shown definitively that Vanek "misses more chances" than other top players in the league?

Not sure how I would even go about doing that. Even if I had the time I don't know how I'd get consensus on what constitutes a "chance."

But, that's irrelevant anyway. People on this site love to attempt to deflect criticism by saying "well this better player or this guy on a better team does it too!" But the reality is that other players on other teams making mistakes does NOT in any way justify or excuse Bills or Sabres players for making mistakes. Everyone is responsible for their own performance.

[OpIv37]

OP it is clear you are being overtly and unreasonably critical. It's still a long season there are a lot of chances he finished on some and that is what we need him to do. Start bantering when he has one of his patent slumps with lack of finishing and then we will listen. Until then you are just being a blow hard...

- - - Updated - - -



I don't know about you man ... but I always finish!

Our highest paid player, who has struggled with consistency for at least the last 4 years, played horrible for half the game and well for half the game. You can say its me being overly critical, but the reality is that Vanek has to be more consistent if this team is going to win.

Today was more of the same from him. Granted, the sample size is ridiculously small, but like I said before, it is disconcerting to see one of the same problems that have held this team back for the last 4 years already manifesting itself in the first game.

[Typ0]

Our highest paid player, who has struggled with consistency for at least the last 4 years, played horrible for half the game and well for half the game. You can say its me being overly critical, but the reality is that Vanek has to be more consistent if this team is going to win.

Today was more of the same from him. Granted, the sample size is ridiculously small, but like I said before, it is disconcerting to see one of the same problems that have held this team back for the last 4 years already manifesting itself in the first game.

I see it much differently than you. The problem with Vanek is he does not respond well to leadership responsibility. So he was put into a position of being a leader by the team but he's not comfortable there. What this team has been lacking is leadership and solidarity. It was wrong to put him there in the first place. What we need to hope for is others emerge as solidifying leaders on this squad and Vanek can just go out and play his game...if that happens then his production will increase because everyone around him is playing better and with focus and he only needs to be concerned with what he's comfortable with.

So ***** about Vanek all you want. If you remember we had to sign him to huge $$$ or lose him and they pulled the trigger to keep him here. Should they have done that? I don't know I guess it depends on the opportunity cost...i.e. what other player might we have gotten in here????

[Crisis]

I see it much differently than you. The problem with Vanek is he does not respond well to leadership responsibility. So he was put into a position of being a leader by the team but he's not comfortable there. What this team has been lacking is leadership and solidarity. It was wrong to put him there in the first place. What we need to hope for is others emerge as solidifying leaders on this squad and Vanek can just go out and play his game...if that happens then his production will increase because everyone around him is playing better and with focus and he only needs to be concerned with what he's comfortable with.

So ***** about Vanek all you want. If you remember we had to sign him to huge $$$ or lose him and they pulled the trigger to keep him here. Should they have done that? I don't know I guess it depends on the opportunity cost...i.e. what other player might we have gotten in here????

It was more than that. He was a young player coming off a monster season and we had already lost Drury/Briere... if Vanek went the fan base would have rioted.

[MikeInRoch]

Not sure how I would even go about doing that. Even if I had the time I don't know how I'd get consensus on what constitutes a "chance."

But, that's irrelevant anyway. People on this site love to attempt to deflect criticism by saying "well this better player or this guy on a better team does it too!" But the reality is that other players on other teams making mistakes does NOT in any way justify or excuse Bills or Sabres players for making mistakes. Everyone is responsible for their own performance.

No, it's not irrelevant. It goes to how reasonable your expectations are. NO PLAYERS hit on all their "chances". None. So unless you think that Vanek fails more than average "top player", then you have no justification to gripe.

[OpIv37]

No, it's not irrelevant. It goes to how reasonable your expectations are. NO PLAYERS hit on all their "chances". None. So unless you think that Vanek fails more than average "top player", then you have no justification to gripe.

My expectations are that the highest paid player on the team scores on breakaways, when he gets the puck handed to him just outside the crease and half the net is open, etc. My expectations are that the highest paid player on the team doesn't go through 12 or 15 game slumps as Vanek has every year. My expectations are that the guy touted as a 40 goal scorer-and paid as one- actually scores 40 goals.

You can try to make it about me and make it seem unreasonable, but it isn't. Just go back and look at how this team has performed since Briere and Drury left and Vanek got his payday to be the top guy. He's not the only reason for the struggles, but his performance has not justified his cap hit. And that's a losing formula every single time.

[Skooby]

Vanek had 5 points in a 5-2 win, he's like a Demi-God temporarily.

[OpIv37]

I see it much differently than you. The problem with Vanek is he does not respond well to leadership responsibility. So he was put into a position of being a leader by the team but he's not comfortable there. What this team has been lacking is leadership and solidarity. It was wrong to put him there in the first place. What we need to hope for is others emerge as solidifying leaders on this squad and Vanek can just go out and play his game...if that happens then his production will increase because everyone around him is playing better and with focus and he only needs to be concerned with what he's comfortable with.

So ***** about Vanek all you want. If you remember we had to sign him to huge $$$ or lose him and they pulled the trigger to keep him here. Should they have done that? I don't know I guess it depends on the opportunity cost...i.e. what other player might we have gotten in here????


It was more than that. He was a young player coming off a monster season and we had already lost Drury/Briere... if Vanek went the fan base would have rioted.

All this speaks to is the blatant incompetence of our FO. Had they kept Briere, who wanted to stay, they could have let Vanek walk. And they'd look like geniuses now, given his production since that happened. But Edmonton played us, through and through, and we will be reaping the consequences until Vanek's contract is up.

[Typ0]

you don't know about Briere's production were he on this team though. They wanted Drury. They got neither. That's life. It's just a matter of circumstances just as Vanek's play is. Put him on a better line and stop asking him to carry everything on his back and it's going to be better with him.

[OpIv37]

you don't know about Briere's production were he on this team though. They wanted Drury. They got neither. That's life. It's just a matter of circumstances just as Vanek's play is. Put him on a better line and stop asking him to carry everything on his back and it's going to be better with him.

It's not "life."

It's the difference between good teams and bad teams.

When a guy makes $6.5-7 million a year, he has to make his line better. If you pay that much for a guy who needs to be on a better line to be successful, you will lose. Every time. No exceptions. In a salary cap league, you can't pay a guy that much unless he's able to carry the team on his back.

[Typ0]

It is life because that's the way it worked out. And all people need the right mixture around them to be successful. You have tunnel vision.


It's not "life."

It's the difference between good teams and bad teams.

When a guy makes $6.5-7 million a year, he has to make his line better. If you pay that much for a guy who needs to be on a better line to be successful, you will lose. Every time. No exceptions. In a salary cap league, you can't pay a guy that much unless he's able to carry the team on his back.

[psubills62]

They won. Cool.

[OpIv37]

It is life because that's the way it worked out. And all people need the right mixture around them to be successful. You have tunnel vision.

lmao. It's not "life" because that's how it worked out. That's how it "worked out" because of the incompetence of the Sabres' FO.

And if you pay $6.5+ million a season for a guy who needs better players around him to be successful, you will NEVER have the right mixture because you won't have the cap space to get the better players.

[gebobs]

Yeah, you didn't see his horrific defensive plays or the chances he missed? He made some great plays and some terrible ones. The highest paid guy in any league with a salary cap can't make horrible plays if the team is going to be successful.
You are one bitter man.

[clumping platelets]

Op complaining about a 5-2 win over the Flyers............I'm :shocked:

[Skooby]

lmao. It's not "life" because that's how it worked out. That's how it "worked out" because of the incompetence of the Sabres' FO.

And if you pay $6.5+ million a season for a guy who needs better players around him to be successful, you will NEVER have the right mixture because you won't have the cap space to get the better players.

The guy gets 5 points in a 5-2 win & he's not the reason for success, so what's the exact reason we were successful ?

[Cleve]

What a great game.... no complaints here. The Sabres looked a little rusty for the first 30 minutes of GP- but it's been a longggg layoff and no pre-season tune up games either. But once they got it together they looked good.

I liked the physicality against the Flyers.... Stafford taking Hartnell to the ice was awesome! haha!! And when has Thomas Vanek looked that good?

Just the start of the season... but was a great way to start.

[OpIv37]

Op complaining about a 5-2 win over the Flyers............I'm :shocked:

We've been over this many, many times..... flaws in a team that can come back and bite us in the ass can be shown in a win. Like I said, we don't get to play horrible PK teams at home when we are rested and they are on their second game of a back to back where they had to travel every night.

- - - Updated - - -


You are one bitter man.

Once again, it's not about me.

[Skooby]

We've been over this many, many times..... flaws in a team that can come back and bite us in the ass can be shown in a win. Like I said, we don't get to play horrible PK teams at home when we are rested and they are on their second game of a back to back where they had to travel every night.



We have no sample size to go by to complain, it was only one game after less than a week of training camp.

[PTI]

Crowd was super dead until Vanek scored. On the plane ride home right now, weekend trips go fast, got to fly in the Bills and Sabres openers this year!!!

[gebobs]

Once again, it's not about me.
Sure it is. When you ***** and complain after a strong overall team effort and a dominating performance by Vanek against the Flyers, it really seems to be about you. Even in the Leafs game where the Sabres were handcuffed by the refs and played a generally flat game otherwise, Vanek still stole the opening act from the likes of JVR/Kessel when he outmuscled Kulemin on the boards to create a 3-on-1 and then calmly dipsy-dooed around Holzer to feed Pommers for the game winner.

Complain about Vanek when he's slumping all you want. But for crap's sake you can't even enjoy when he's playing at the top of his game. It's pathetic.

[psubills62]

Another win? Cool.

[OpIv37]

Um, against the Flyers, Vanek got stuck in the ice and the first Philly goal was right in his grill. He then missed a breakaway and an empty net. Odd definition of "dominating." All his scoring did was neutralize his own mistakes.

Against the Leafs, he took an offensive zone penalty to give the Leafs a 4 on 3.

And this is the highest paid guy on the team? You can't just pretend he didn't have some major **** ups because he also made some big plays. You wonder the Bills and Sabres never win? Well, one recurring theme is that the supposed "stars" hurt as much as they help.

But hey, just try to make it about me so you can defend the guy you like rather than accept reality.

[OpIv37]

And Jesus, if this is his "peak" and he's still doing this bone-headed stuff, the Sabres are going nowhere until his contract is off the books.

[chernobylwraiths]

Op, your focus on how good a player is is too centered on how much he is paid than how productive he is. Do you have some formula you would like to share with everyone that uses all of these characteristics? I think the NHL would love that. Especially the "finish" percentage. That one would be key.

[OpIv37]

Op, your focus on how good a player is is too centered on how much he is paid than how productive he is. Do you have some formula you would like to share with everyone that uses all of these characteristics? I think the NHL would love that. Especially the "finish" percentage. That one would be key.

Two words: salary cap. When money is given to a player, that cap space is used up and cannot be devoted to other players. So, when a highly paid player doesn't play up to their cap hit, that money can't be devoted to better players and the team will lose. No exceptions.

It's the reality of a salary cap league.

[gebobs]

Um, against the Flyers, Vanek got stuck in the ice and the first Philly goal was right in his grill.
What did you want him to do. The turnover wasn't his fault and since he was the furthest away from the bench he couldn't make the change without making the situation drastically worse.


He then missed a breakaway and an empty net. Odd definition of "dominating." All his scoring did was neutralize his own mistakes.
5 points on 5 goals by your team in a win is dominating by anyone's definition but yours.


Against the Leafs, he took an offensive zone penalty to give the Leafs a 4 on 3.
He made a mistake. It wasn't on purpose. He was going for the puck right in front of the net. If he didn't go for it, you would be complaining that he was too lazy. But he gives the extra effort and came up empty. **** happens, bub.


And this is the highest paid guy on the team? You can't just pretend he didn't have some major **** ups because he also made some big plays.
As my old boss once said to me, if you're not making any mistakes, you're not trying hard enough.

[OpIv37]

And when **** happens to the highest paid player night in and night out, teams find themselves outside the playoffs year in and year out.

But hey, just continue to defend one of the reasons why this team has been unsuccessful. I can't stop you. Just don't be shocked when the team is mediocre.

[gebobs]

But hey, just continue to defend one of the reasons why this team has been unsuccessful. I can't stop you. Just don't be shocked when the team is mediocre.
Vanek is one of the reasons why this team has been unsuccessful? That's ludicrous.

It's not his fault the Sabres haven't been able to fill in the gaps around him. Ask anyone what the weak spot has been on this team over the past several seasons and anyone with more than an ounce of sense is going to tell you it's been center. Roy-fail. Hecht-fail. Connolly-fail.

[Skooby]

Two words: salary cap. When money is given to a player, that cap space is used up and cannot be devoted to other players. So, when a highly paid player doesn't play up to their cap hit, that money can't be devoted to better players and the team will lose. No exceptions.

It's the reality of a salary cap league.

Maybe the Sabres should pay everyone the same amount by just splitting up the pot, there's a way to incentivize for performance.