Is this another 3 year rebuild?

[coastal]

Lets look at this from a needs standpoint...

- RT
- LG.. Levitre is so gone.
- TE
- WR
- QB

- DT
- OLB
- ILB
- SS
- CB

certainly feels like it.

[YardRat]

I'm looking at two.

No team is perfect, and all have holes/positions that could stand upgrading. We won't fill them all, regardless when (if?) we start winning again.

[OpIv37]

This team has been in rebuilding mode since the Music City Mirage. We will be lucky if it ends in 3 years

[TacklingDummy]

Without a Franchise QB the rebuild will take forever.

[X-Era]

Lets look at this from a needs standpoint... - RT - LG.. Levitre is so gone. - TE - WR - QB - DT - OLB - ILB - SS - CB certainly feels like it.Yes.

That's what happens every time there is a regime change.

It's the downside of changing regimes that many don't want to look at.

I think we should expect questionable play for all of next year as we try to learn new schemes and a year at least or several years of not having the right personnel for our schemes.

The only way this does'nt happen is if we find a way to teach our players the new schemes and terminology before we play any games and/or if we truly adapt our schemes to our players which hasn't ever really happened even though several previous HC's said they would do that.

[OpIv37]

Without a Franchise QB the rebuild will take forever.

And that's why this rebuild will take longer than 3 years. There are no franchise QB's available. It will be at least one more year before we get one, then time for him to develop.

I suppose we could get lucky and find a Russell Wilson type in the 2nd or 3rd, but luck has always been the enemy of Buffalo sports.

[delectrolux]

And that's why this rebuild will take longer than 3 years. There are no franchise QB's available. It will be at least one more year before we get one, then time for him to develop.

I suppose we could get lucky and find a Russell Wilson type in the 2nd or 3rd, but luck has always been the enemy of Buffalo sports.

Unfortunately luck's got nothing to do with it. Incompetence has always been the enemy of Buffalo sports.

[TacklingDummy]

Unfortunately luck's got nothing to do with it. Incompetence has always been the enemy of Buffalo sports.

I think "luck" has everything to do with it. Either a team gets lucky and lands a Brady, Ben, Kelly, Marino, Luck, etc...or they get unlucky and land a Losman, Johnson, Edwards, etc...

A team that is consistent year in and year out usually has a franchise QB.

[Fletch]

Is this another 3 year rebuild?

With a little luck.

[imbondz]

at least 3 unless we hit the Marv Levy jackpot again.

[The Jokeman]

Lets look at this from a needs standpoint...

- RT
- LG.. Levitre is so gone.
- TE
- WR
- QB

- DT
- OLB
- ILB
- SS
- CB

certainly feels like it.

RT to me isn't a big concern
LG is a concern if Levitre is let go but let's not forget Marrone was a former NFL O-line coach.
TE is a vital part of a good WCO, that's why I say bring in Dustin Keller.
WR It doesn't hurt to have another playmaker that's why I calling for drafting Cordalle Patterson
QB To me is always the final piece of the puzzle. I'm calling for drafting EJ Manuel as he fits the "Cam Newton" mold.

DT ? Not sure why you saying that's a need as think we have two strong starters here
DE ? We could use some help at the opposite side of Mario but I wouldn't say a BIG need.
OLB Yes, we need help here at WLB.
MLB See OLB.
SS Not a pivitol position in most defenses so give Searcy a chance.
CB It would help to have another starting guy opposite Gilmore but think if we improve the LBs we can get away of a lesser talent.

[bf1]

Bumbling Buddy Nix says he's going to stay the course. So the tremendous progress will continue.

[JoeMama]

I don't believe in the three year model.

If a team gets the right QB/HC combo, the wins will happen immediately.

[coastal]

I don't believe in the three year model.
Been waiting for someone to say this, although I don't believe the QB has to be a definitive part of that equation. Trust that I understand having Aaron Rogers doesn't hurt either though.

i believe the Bills CAN make a go of it this year. They have a special talent in Spiller.

Build the offense around him... Supplement what he brings to the table with a rational understanding of what you have at QB.

plug some one year vets into the D and make a go of it.

[jimmifli]

Been waiting for someone to say this, although I don't believe the QB has to be a definitive part of that equation. Trust that I understand having Aaron Rogers doesn't hurt either though.

i believe the Bills CAN make a go of it this year. They have a special talent in Spiller.

Build the offense around him... Supplement what he brings to the table with a rational understanding of what you have at QB.

plug some one year vets into the D and make a go of it.

The line still has trouble getting tough yards. If we really do want to use Spiller, the line needs an upgrade. People can quote the sacks stats all day, but with Fitz's quick release, short throws, good pocket awareness and escapability plus Chan's spread offense with multiple outlets and hot routes, it's REALLY hard for a D to actually get a sack.

Our line isn't stellar. But it can be*.

*(i'm preaching to the choir again)

[DraftBoy]

God I hope so, its time to blow this entire thing up and start anew.

[coastal]

The line still has trouble getting tough yards. If we really do want to use Spiller, the line needs an upgrade. People can quote the sacks stats all day, but with Fitz's quick release, short throws, good pocket awareness and escapability plus Chan's spread offense with multiple outlets and hot routes, it's REALLY hard for a D to actually get a sack.

Our line isn't stellar. But it can be*.

*(i'm preaching to the choir again)
Schemes can be beat... Physicality is tougher to figure out how to deal with.

Loadholt and Warmack can be had for about the cost of resigning Levitre and speak more to physicality!

TJax is good at play action, the deep ball and on the move... seems to fit.

Add a big TE like the kid out of Cincinnati or by trading up to get the kid from Notre Dame. Maybe make a run at Keller later on after most teams are scared off by his injuries.

draft a late round RB... someone physical... in case Fred or CJ go down.

Round that out, like I said previously, with some key one or two year vets like Merriman, Scott, Kemoeatu, Silar... maybe a player for the secondary... Maybe not.

coach the lot up and go to war.

i could get behind that. Instead we will get some circus around Tyler Wilson or Ryan Nassib...

[YardRat]

Schemes can be beat... Physicality is tougher to figure out how to deal with.

Loadholt and Warmack can be had for about the cost of resigning Levitre and speak more to physicality!

TJax is good at play action, the deep ball and on the move... seems to fit.

Add a big TE like the kid out of Cincinnati or by trading up to get the kid from Notre Dame. Maybe make a run at Keller later on after most teams are scared off by his injuries.

draft a late round RB... someone physical... in case Fred or CJ go down.

Round that out, like I said previously, with some key one or two year vets like Merriman, Scott, Kemoeatu, Silar... maybe a player for the secondary... Maybe not.

coach the lot up and go to war.

i could get behind that. Instead we will get some circus around Tyler Wilson or Ryan Nassib...

:beers:

[The Jokeman]

Schemes can be beat... Physicality is tougher to figure out how to deal with.

Loadholt and Warmack can be had for about the cost of resigning Levitre and speak more to physicality!

TJax is good at play action, the deep ball and on the move... seems to fit.

Add a big TE like the kid out of Cincinnati or by trading up to get the kid from Notre Dame. Maybe make a run at Keller later on after most teams are scared off by his injuries.

draft a late round RB... someone physical... in case Fred or CJ go down.

Round that out, like I said previously, with some key one or two year vets like Merriman, Scott, Kemoeatu, Silar... maybe a player for the secondary... Maybe not.

coach the lot up and go to war.

i could get behind that. Instead we will get some circus around Tyler Wilson or Ryan Nassib...

As great a prospect as Warmack is most NFL teams don't take OG in the top 10 of the draft. Look no further than DeCastro last year, everyone was glowing on how great a prospect he was at OG and he was taken in the mid twenties by the Steelers. Heck Cordy Glenn was arguably a better prospect by some at OG lasted until the 2nd Round to us. Say what you want but to win in today's NFL you need to outskill teams now. Why do the Patriots kill us? We have no one that can cover Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. So to me you add another playmaker or two on offense that teams have to worry about you make our offense even better. Enter Cordarrelle Patterson who's a 6-3 205 pound Percy Harvin, toss that in with CJ Spiller, Stevie and a Dustin Keller and think you could cause some serious mismatches on offense. Patterson's rumored to run a 4.35, if he runs that he might easily be this year's Julio Jones.

[coastal]

As great a prospect as Warmack is most NFL teams don't take OG in the top 10 of the draft. Look no further than DeCastro last year, everyone was glowing on how great a prospect he was at OG and he was taken in the mid twenties by the Steelers. Heck Cordy Glenn was arguably a better prospect by some at OG lasted until the 2nd Round to us. Say what you want but to win in today's NFL you need to outskill teams now. Why do the Patriots kill us? We have no one that can cover Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. So to me you add another playmaker or two on offense that teams have to worry about you make our offense even better. Enter Cordarrelle Patterson who's a 6-3 205 pound Percy Harvin, toss that in with CJ Spiller, Stevie and a Dustin Keller and think you could cause some serious mismatches on offense. Patterson's rumored to run a 4.35, if he runs that he might easily be this year's Julio Jones.

here's a hint about my philosophy... I give a rat's ass what most teams do.

I'd plug Tim Tebow into my equation too and dare the Bills to hurt every defense they play against.

id dare the whole ****ing team to do something different.

But oh no... Cordarelle is the next coming of Megatron.. And we need to create mismatches... Yada... Yada... Blah.

[The Jokeman]

here's a hint about my philosophy... I give a rat's ass what most teams do.

I'd plug Tim Tebow into my equation too and dare the Bills to hurt every defense they play against.

id dare the whole ****ing team to do something different.

But oh no... Cordarelle is the next coming of Megatron.. And we need to create mismatches... Yada... Yada... Blah.

Tim Tebow can't throw consistantly to hurt defenses if he could then he would be a starting NFL QB. That's why Elway moved away from him and went with Peyton. Great offenses have great playmakers. We have one in CJ. Stevie it's debatable but he's shown he can be at times. Toss in Patterson and you've got teams wondering. Toss in Dustin Keller you can create mismatches because teams will struggle with a S covering Keller but at the same time might want to give their CB coverring Patterson some help with a S but a S in the box to stop CJ might also be needed. CJ Spiller can't do iat alone. Adrian Peterson was great last season but the Vikings offense was even better when Percy Harvin was healthy.

[coastal]

Tim Tebow can't throw consistantly to hurt defenses if he could then he would be a starting NFL QB. That's why Elway moved away from him and went with Peyton. Great offenses have great playmakers. We have one in CJ. Stevie it's debatable but he's shown he can be at times. Toss in Patterson and you've got teams wondering. Toss in Dustin Keller you can create mismatches because teams will struggle with a S covering Keller but at the same time might want to give their CB coverring Patterson some help with a S but a S in the box to stop CJ might also be needed. CJ Spiller can't do iat alone. Adrian Peterson was great last season but the Vikings offense was even better when Percy Harvin was healthy.Manning didn't get them any further than Tebow.

the Ravens won the Super Bowl because they were more physical than the teams they played against.

[The Jokeman]

Manning didn't get them any further than Tebow.

the Ravens won the Super Bowl because they were more physical than the teams they played against.

The 2012 version of the Broncos would have easily beat the 2011 version if they were to play one another if you ask me. Jacoby Jones played a big part of the Ravens beating the Broncos and the 49ers but I know you don't want to hear about speedy WRs. Also TE Dennis Pitta was a dangerous weapon for Flacco too. I know I know the Ravens won everything thanks to Ray Lewis and Ray Rice. The Bills have to improve the D but they also need to improve the O if expect to improve as a team in 2013.

[coastal]

The 2012 version of the Broncos would have easily beat the 2011 version if they were to play one another if you ask me. Jacoby Jones played a big part of the Ravens beating the Broncos and the 49ers but I know you don't want to hear about speedy WRs. Also TE Dennis Pitta was a dangerous weapon for Flacco too. I know I know the Ravens won everything thanks to Ray Lewis and Ray Rice. The Bills have to improve the D but they also need to improve the O if expect to improve as a team in 2013.
Hey don't get me wrong... there's a whole slew of areas we can improve.

and u bring up a lot of good points.

but I go back to the lessons of Super Bowl XXV... A second hand QB with a cast of second tier skill position players beat a high powered scoring machine.

How?

by playing more physical than we did.

I think there's a tendency to focus on trying to find that super-duper mismatch playmaker at the expense of the obvious...

if u punch someone in the mouth hard enough, they're going to relent.

[The Jokeman]

Hey don't get me wrong... there's a whole slew of areas we can improve.

and u bring up a lot of good points.

but I go back to the lessons of Super Bowl XXV... A second hand QB with a cast of second tier skill position players beat a high powered scoring machine.

How?

by playing more physical than we did.

I think there's a tendency to focus on trying to find that super-duper mismatch playmaker at the expense of the obvious...

if u punch someone in the mouth hard enough, there going to relent.

The reason we lost Super Bowl XXV was our 2 minute QB had a horrible 2 minute drill to end the game. Toss in Belechick was genius enough to play a D that baffled Kelly and the entire passing game. Part of which was to hit the ever living crap out of Andre Reed, which is a valid point. I know it's not a popular thing to rag on Jim Kelly but the fact is when he was on the world's biggest stage he failed miserably each and every time because he was playing tougher defenes and in part he was a very good QB but never great IMHO. Toss in our D's were never great but I think a lot of that had to do with increased playing time due to the K-Gun offense. Also Jeff Wright was an average NT in the 3-4 and we had some question marks at our # 2 CBs.

[coastal]

I agree about Jim Kelly.. I also blame their partying ways for thei big game failures.

but disagree that being out-schemed was why we lost.

Having a better game plan bought the giants a fighting chance.

Being more physical is why they won.

remember the one play were it was 3rd and long toward the end of the game? I think it may have been the Giants last drive... the Giants WR broke tackle after tackle to pickup the first?

he was able to do that because we were beat up by that point.

needless to say Im a fan of Parcells philosophy and game mgmt practices.

[fluteflakes]

Pure and simple you need a QB that can throw.

Tim Tebow completed 45% of his passes in an era where the average is just above 57%, if not higher over the past 3 seasons.

I don't care how "physical" you want the team to be, you NEED a QB who can hit short throws and make quick, accurate decisions with the football. Tim Tebow can't.

And please, the Ravens this year one their run were an aerial attack team with Flacco and Bolden and Pitta accounting for their offense. The run game did just enough to run out the games, but lets not act like they were punching people in the mouth. The Giants 2 years ago won because their QB beat the Pats, the Packers had the 32nd ranked run game but won the SB by Aaron Rodgers putting the team on his back.

Meanwhile, the Vikings built around one of the greatest RB's well ever see in AP and couldn't win one game, against a TERRIBLE packers D... running the EXACT option offense you'd like us to run.

The triple-option doesn't work as a full time offense in the NFL, period.

[The Jokeman]

Pure and simple you need a QB that can throw.

Tim Tebow completed 45% of his passes in an era where the average is just above 57%, if not higher over the past 3 seasons.

I don't care how "physical" you want the team to be, you NEED a QB who can hit short throws and make quick, accurate decisions with the football. Tim Tebow can't.

Exactly play a slow move the chains type offense that on occasion make a big play (with CJ and/or Patterson) and strong defense and you can win. The Ravens did that last year against the 49ers. It's why I'm calling for improvements on TE and the WR opposite Stevie as think that will help the offense and inturn help the defense. Of course the defense needs help at two LB spots for me to become medicore and who knows maybe a healthy Mark Anderson and new scheme might even make them even better.

[coastal]

Pure and simple you need a QB that can throw.

Tim Tebow completed 45% of his passes in an era where the average is just above 57%, if not higher over the past 3 seasons.

I don't care how "physical" you want the team to be, you NEED a QB who can hit short throws and make quick, accurate decisions with the football. Tim Tebow can't.
Perhaps... But I'd like to get the chance to see Tebow prove everyone wrong.

like he has his whole career.

[fluteflakes]

Oh please, cut that "he just wins" "he's an underdog" nonsense.

Vince Young "just won" 65% of his starts in the NFL and he doesn't even have a roster spot. Know why? Because he SUCKS.

Tim Tebow didn't prove anybody "wrong", he played in 10 starts and won 6 games and one playoff game where he made a 5 yard pass (an inaccurate one, BTW) and Bey-Bey turned it into an 80 yard kill shot.

[The Jokeman]

I agree about Jim Kelly.. I also blame their partying ways for thei big game failures.

but disagree that being out-schemed was why we lost.

Having a better game plan bought the giants a fighting chance.

Being more physical is why they won.

remember the one play were it was 3rd and long toward the end of the game? I think it may have been the Giants last drive... the Giants WR broke tackle after tackle to pickup the first?

he was able to do that because we were beat up by that point.

needless to say Im a fan of Parcells philosophy and game mgmt practices.

The Bills offense had to find a way to sustain drives and keep the defense off the field but we couldn't. I mean relook at the play by play, http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/super/superbowl-xxv-plays.htm. I 'm pretty sure we had three or four or drives of about 2 minutes each. Well no wonder the D was sucking wind.

[fluteflakes]

The defense was sucking wind because we had the ball for 19 minutes. Parcells knew our weaknesses and exploited them, but at then end of that game we had quite a few chances to win it, hell the kick could have been made easier if Kelly can make one quick, 5-6 second play to gain another 5-7 yards with the 8 seconds we had left. But we went conservative.

Acting like the only reason the Bills lost that game was because they were "out physicaled" is nuts.

[coastal]

Oh please, cut that "he just wins" "he's an underdog" nonsense.

Vince Young "just won" 65% of his starts in the NFL and he doesn't even have a roster spot. Know why? Because he SUCKS.
Vince Young can shampoo my crotch and shame on you for even trying to draw a comparison.

picture this... we're down against NE next year and fighting them for the last wildcard spot. TJax goes down with a concussion after being speared by Brandon Spikes. We r forced to punt only to hold Ugg boy to a 3 and out.

2:15 left in the game. Down by 4. It's cold. Last bit of light leaving the colorless WNY sky... A few hints of a flurry make their way past the now glowing lights high a top RWS.

ball on our 27 yard line.

the Bills O is semi huddled together... a last word from Marrone...

Tebow turns and jogs toward his team. The crowd goes ****ing sick. Tebow pumps his fist and the huddle closes around him.

i ain't betting against him... are u?

[fluteflakes]

Yes... because the Pats utterly obliterated him, twice, because they took away the deep ball and made him throw short. Which he couldn't do.

I don't care how great a "leader" or "voice" the guy has. At the end of the day he's just not a very good QUARTERBACK. And you need one to win. I mean I don't have faith that T-Jax can do anything beyond decent (he can't throw left) but I at least know that he can make some basic, everyday NFL throws. Tim Tebow I have to hold my breath every time he throws a 5 yard out.

And if someone makes the "he's a winner" argument, the SAME argument applies to Vince Young. The exact same argument.

Won in HS, won in College, even won in the NFL. But is a TERRIBLE QB.

[coastal]

The defense was sucking wind because we had the ball for 19 minutes. Parcells knew our weaknesses and exploited them, but at then end of that game we had quite a few chances to win it, hell the kick could have been made easier if Kelly can make one quick, 5-6 second play to gain another 5-7 yards with the 8 seconds we had left. But we went conservative.

Acting like the only reason the Bills lost that game was because they were "out physicaled" is nuts.nuts?

go watch how they beat our receivers... Especially Reed.

[coastal]

Yes... because the Pats utterly obliterated him, twice, because they took away the deep ball and made him throw short.

I don't care how great a "leader" or "voice" the guy has. At the end of the day he's just not a very good QUARTERBACK. And you need one to win. I mean I don't have faith that T-Jax can do anything beyond decent (he can't throw left) but I at least know that he can make some basic, everyday NFL throws. Tim Tebow I have to hold my breath every time he throws a 5 yard out.u might be right... But I'd like to see a team dumb enough to build their church around him and all his flaws.

Denver did it by accident or default and couldn't back out of it once he was winning games.

****... Is doing that any dumber than running a team out there led by half the scrubs they call starting QBs in this league?

[fluteflakes]

I thought for sure the Jets, being the hell hole circus they are, would have. But they didn't, they went with a 2nd year, 7th round guy from Alabama with no arm instead.

Denver did it because they had nobody else, and they "designed" an offense around Tebow as best they could. But when Tebow had to go to a conventional, NFL type offense when teams stopped the one they developed around him, he couldn't play. He didn't make the team around him better, the team elevated him.

And to be honest, I'd rather have Tebow over Cassel and really... that's about it. He's a back-up QB, that really should be a TE.

[coastal]

He should be a TE.i totally would get behind signing him as an HB/TE and using him as a multi-purpose weapon like NE does Hernandez.

[fluteflakes]

But he's not willing to do that, he's DETERMINED to remain a QB, which is a shame. The man would be a special TE, he's huge, has good movement when he's at a good weight (230-240) and I'm sure a good TE's coach, given an offseason and an entire season, could teach him to catch and run very basic routes.

But he just won't change positions and most likely will stay a back-up for the remainder of his career. Hell I don't even know what team would bring him in anymore due to the sheer amount of drama and unneeded media attention he'd bring.

[coastal]

But he's not willing to do that, he's DETERMINED to remain a QB, which is a shame. The man would be a special TE, he's huge, has good movement when he's at a good weight (230-240) and I'm sure a good TE's coach, given an offseason and an entire season, could teach him to catch and run very basic routes.

But he just won't change positions and most likely will stay a back-up for the remainder of his career. Hell I don't even know what team would bring him in anymore due to the sheer amount of drama and unneeded media attention he'd bring.
I would... But then again I would have drafted Mike Iupati over CJ Spiller... Still would for that matter.

as far as the media circus... That was one of the "reasons" given for endorsing the signing of Super "Fools Gold" Mario.

we were relevant again.

Tebow makes his team relevant by leading... not being the hundo million dollar man.

as far as him wanting to still play QB... Maybe this offseason his options for that run out... Maybe the time is right for someone to approach him about switching roles.

it might take a sales job... It will take being able to communicate a vision... Knowing Tebow, that vision will have to be about physical football and youre going to have to show him how he's going to be a vital part of that.

things change with time... the kids a great leader... It would be a shame to see his NFL career end here.

[ServoBillieves]

They've all been 3 year rebuilds since Marv, and after the 2nd year the fans chant for the Front Office to be sent to hell, hence never a completion. So yes, another 3 year rebuild, and in 2 and a half years we'll be screaming at Marrone for not being 8-0.

[trapezeus]

3 years? we are in year 14 of the rebuild.

the bills had a servicable offense this year. if they ran their star RB more and had a qb who could deliver an accurate pass consistently from a stable O-line over 15 yards, they could have easily had 3 more wins. Maybe 2 more simply by being effective when it counts. That's a possible playoff spot. Plus, if they don't collapse vs NE, they put NE at 3 straight losses and out of hte picture. the way the wheels came off the jets, the bills could have easily won the east, if they just didn't trust fitz as the answer, and if they reacted faster with spiller.

The d, which they have focused on, has gotten worse. Tragically worse.

I always say, "i can't see how next year will be worse than the one we just endured," but the bills always find a way. So i am prepared for a disaster next season. and when they are 5-1, as badly as i will want to drink the kool-aid, i won't. i won't rain on people's parades, but i'll be waiting for the Romo-esque disaster to happen at the most inopportune time. but hey. if i get to see one playoff game before i die, i'll be beyond the moon.

[fluteflakes]

Well we gave Jauron 3 1/2 years, we gave Chan 3 years, we even gave Man Boobs 3 dang years.

What the key in any rebuild is, can you SEE the team getting better and taking steps in the right direction each season. And the answer with all the guys we've had since Marv has really been no. I hope Marrone is that guy, I'm not holding my breath, but I hope he is.

[better days]

Well we gave Jauron 3 1/2 years, we gave Chan 3 years, we even gave Man Boobs 3 dang years.

What the key in any rebuild is, can you SEE the team getting better and taking steps in the right direction each season. And the answer with all the guys we've had since Marv has really been no. I hope Marrone is that guy, I'm not holding my breath, but I hope he is.

Without question, there is much more talent on the Bills now than 3 years ago. The problem has been Coaching, mostly on the defensive side of the ball. I think if Chan had hired a better DC from day 1, he would still be the HC. Wanny failed him terribly last year.

Marrone looks like he has picked a much better DC at least.