So The Bills Must Overdraft Another Locker, Ponder ?

[Night Train]

This group is no better. Smart teams learn from the past that reaching doesn't work.

These guys looked so average today at the Combine. None look ready.

Draft an actual top 10 talent. It's not a QB.

[DraftBoy]

I think Geno is a legit Top 10 QB, and I like Wilson in the same area. After them though I'll pass until Round 2.

[cookie G]

I think Geno is a legit Top 10 QB, and I like Wilson in the same area. After them though I'll pass until Round 2.

Agreed. Still not sure about Wilson though, I tentatively like him 2nd best in this class, but I just have a bad Bobby Petrino feeling about him.

[YardRat]

Couldn't agree more.

[fluteflakes]

Absolutely agree, reaching for a QB can cripple a franchise. You don't just take the table scraps in the first because "you need a QB" it has to be the RIGHT QB. Otherwise you're screwed for another 2-3 seasons, unless he's just Jimmy Clausen bad in his rookie year.

[Tatonka]

agreed.. no qb worth wasting the 8th pick on.

[jamze132]

agreed.. no qb worth wasting the 8th pick on.

I think Geno Smith is the only one.

[k-oneputt]

And what makes all of you believe that you, or the so called experts, can identify top-10 talent ?
Or you can say one guy is in the 20-30 range but not the 1-10 range ?
You think Kapernick and R. Wilson would go top-10 now ?

[mjt328]

Disagree completely.

Although there are no slam dunks this year (like Luck or RGIII), there are probably 8-9 prospects with a good enough skill set to potentially become an NFL starter. I'm sure not all of those prospects will work out and several will bust. But there is also a good chance that a couple of them will become solid or very good. The key is for Buffalo's scouting department to do their homework and grab the right prospect.

You point out Christian Ponder and Jake Locker as players that were "overdrafted" for their draft position (I would throw in Blaine Gabbert as well). But you neglect to point out that Cam Newton was not a slam dunk as the #1 pick either - and many considered him overdrafted. There were plenty of critics calling for the Panthers to select Marcel Dareus, DaQuan Bowers, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Von Miller, etc. They were better value picks.

Many on this board are arguing that Buffalo should wait for the second round. They throw around terms like "Value" and "Best Player Available".
Here is a fun term that I like to use: "Supply and Demand."

History has proven - time and time again - that quarterback is BY FAR the most important position in the field. Even a smaller upgrade from Fitz to the quality of Andy Dalton or Matt Schaub could have a huge impact on our team. Bigger than signing Mario Williams. Bigger than retaining Jairus Byrd and Andy Levitre. Bigger than taking a receiver or linebacker with our top pick. That is why smart teams continue to (and will continue to...) overdraft quarterbacks, even with more talented players available. Miami learned this lesson the hard way several years ago when they took Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan. In 2012, they snatched up Ryan Tannehill with better players available. And even after one season...most would argue that it was the right decision. Back to Christian Ponder. The guy - at this point in his career - is not exceptional by any means. But the Vikings have been MUCH better with him under center, than they were with Tavaris Jackson the year before Ponder was drafted.

With the #8 pick, there is a good chance that Buffalo will have first or second choice on the quarterbacks available.
If they wait until the second round, that means Kansas City, Jacksonville, Oakland, Philadelphia, Cleveland and Arizona will have TWO chances at drafting a QB before them... not to mention the Jets getting an opportunity (assuming they also don't try to trade up). Instead of the pick of the litter, we get the leftovers.

[better days]

This group is no better. Smart teams learn from the past that reaching doesn't work.

These guys looked so average today at the Combine. None look ready.

Draft an actual top 10 talent. It's not a QB.

Well, Nix has said 2 or 3 QBs in this class will separate themselves & be GOOD QBs. I heard a GM (did not get his name) on Sirius say there are diamonds in the rough at the QB position.

You could be right, NOBODY will be good from this group. But you are most likely WRONG.

[justasportsfan]

If the qb that the bills want is there , they have to grab him regardless of whether he's a reach or not. I don't want them to grab one for the sake of grabbing one just like what they did with Losman. The bills wanted Big Ben (so did I) but no one wanted to trade with them to get him before Pitts could so they traded back in the first and settled for JP.

[Night Train]

You could be right, NOBODY will be good from this group. But you are most likely WRONG.

Anyone else thinking " Irony " ?

[better days]

If the qb that the bills want is there , they have to grab him regardless of whether he's a reach or not. I don't want them to grab one for the sake of grabbing one just like what they did with Losman. The bills wanted Big Ben (so did I) but no one wanted to trade with them to get him before Pitts could so they traded back in the first and settled for JP.

In hindsight, the Bills could have traded every pick they had in that draft to move up for Big Ben & it would have been worth it.

[Bill Cody]

Not sure if Nix knows which is **** and which shynola. He liked Newton and didn't like Gabbert which was impressive but he passed on Kaepernick and Wilson. It's a tricky business. I was on board the Tyler Wilson train early but the hand thing has me wary. Not sold on Nassib or Glennon. Personally I'd like to be all in on QB's but I agree with Night Train, what's the use of overdrafting busts? We have plenty of cap space so my take would be send a late draft pick to to Seattle for Flynn, let him compete with Jackson as the starter and then draft a project like EJ Manuel in the 2nd. Cut Fitz.

[justasportsfan]

In hindsight, the Bills could have traded every pick they had in that draft to move up for Big Ben & it would have been worth it.

In hindsight, we would have ruined every qb we touched .

[k-oneputt]

I think they have to make their move on a qb at #8.
Whomever that may be, I don't think they can wait and watch their guy get drafted later in rd.1.

[k-oneputt]

In hindsight, we would have ruined every qb we touched .

A lot of this was due to the terrible coaching and mismangement in the front office...and some due to the abilities of the qb's.

[justasportsfan]

A lot of this was due to the terrible coaching and mismangement in the front office...and some due to the abilities of the qb's.

I agree. Imagine Jauron forcing Ben to stay in the pocket and just dink the ball.

[better days]

In hindsight, we would have ruined every qb we touched .

In hindsight, it was a GOOD thing Kelly went to the USFL before coming to Buffalo, the Bills would have ruined him if he came to Buffalo when drafted.

[justasportsfan]

In hindsight, it was a GOOD thing Kelly went to the USFL before coming to Buffalo, the Bills would have ruined him if he came to Buffalo when drafted.

I don't know, Levy vs. Jauron :scratch:

[better days]

I don't know, Levy vs. Jauron :scratch:

Levy was not the HC when Kelly was drafted. I think it was Bullaugh if I remember right.

[justasportsfan]

Levy was not the HC when Kelly was drafted. I think it was Bullaugh if I remember right.

I understand, but Marv was a good enough coach and Jauron is a qb killer. In other words, Jauron can grab a good qb and make him crappy in the long run.

[better days]

I understand, but Marv was a good enough coach and Jauron is a qb killer. In other words, Jauron can grab a good qb and make him crappy in the long run.

Yeah, that was my point. when Kelly came to Buffalo, Marv came as well, if Kelly came before that, Hank Bullough might have ruined him before Levy got to Buffalo.

[ServoBillieves]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Let's just agree with the fact that whoever we pick at 8, we will all complain about it.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, that was my point. when Kelly came to Buffalo, Marv came as well, if Kelly came before that, Hank Bullough might have ruined him before Levy got to Buffalo.

I'm saying MArv could have fixed Kelly, while of we drafted Ben, Dick would have ruined him. ;)

[k-oneputt]

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Let's just agree with the fact that whoever we pick at 8, we will all complain about it.

Maybe the Bills decade of stupidty has given us the right to complain.
You know, our "experts" who draft all of our stud 1st rd picks the last ten years or so.

[better days]

I'm saying MArv could have fixed Kelly, while of we drafted Ben, Dick would have ruined him. ;)

Good point.

[YardRat]

Yeah, that was my point. when Kelly came to Buffalo, Marv came as well, if Kelly came before that, Hank Bullough might have ruined him before Levy got to Buffalo.

Kelly did play under Bullough for 9 games.

[better days]

Kelly did play under Bullough for 9 games.

Funny, Kelly credits the USFL with helping him develop, but no mention of or credit to Bullough. LOL.

[YardRat]

Funny, Kelly credits the USFL with helping him develop, but no mention of or credit to Bullough. LOL.

He hated Bullough, and rightfully credits his years in USFL for his development. Also, just FYI, I believe Kay Stephenson was actually HC when Kelly was drafted.

[Night Train]

Levy was not the HC when Kelly was drafted. I think it was Bullaugh if I remember right.

GM Stew Barber drafted Kelly.

Chuck Knox had just left Buffalo for Seattle. Kay Stevenson was hired as the new coach after answering the phone with Ralph on the other end and replying " You want ME to be coach ? " in complete disbelief. (true story)

[better days]

GM Stew Barber drafted Kelly.

Chuck Knox had just left Buffalo for Seattle. Kay Stevenson was hired as the new coach after answering the phone with Ralph on the other end and replying " You want ME to be coach ? " in complete disbelief. (true story)

I moved to Fla at about that time so my info of what happened after I moved is not all that good. The Bills were on TV twice a season against Miami & NO news in the paper other than the score.

[jimmifli]

In hindsight, we would have ruined every qb we touched .

That's just something stupid that Rob Johnson and JP Losman fans tell themselves to relieve the guilt and avoid thinking about how they helped **** over the franchise for a decade.

[The Jokeman]

I have always said that QB is the last piece of the puzzle and that's why am favoring taking a QB later than sooner this year and by later I mean the 2nd Round. As to me if we can grab a great talent at WR (see Patterson) at pick 8 and grab a solid QB at pick 41 and found a LB that can start in Round 3 and add another starting LB in free agency the turn around might start. Maybe not playoffs in 2013 but possibly improvement to 8-8 which be greatful or who knows if we get Patterson and Manuel we could end up with another Julio Jones/Colin Kaepernick situation. As the biggest issue the Bills have had of late is finding starters in the later rounds and it's why we have yet to improve. That said if pick 8 comes around and Geno Smith is there I'm willing to take him and look for a WR like Terrence Williams in Round 2.

[The Jokeman]

Funny, Kelly credits the USFL with helping him develop, but no mention of or credit to Bullough. LOL.

I don't disbelieve it. I've said it numerous times but the only QB this team has ever developed into a starter is Joe Ferguson, I'm shocked with all the love Tyler Wilson's been getting no one's mentioned the Arkansas connection.

[Bill Cody]

I have always said that QB is the last piece of the puzzle and that's why am favoring taking a QB later than sooner this year and by later I mean the 2nd Round. As to me if we can grab a great talent at WR (see Patterson) at pick 8 and grab a solid QB at pick 41 and found a LB that can start in Round 3 and add another starting LB in free agency the turn around might start. Maybe not playoffs in 2013 but possibly improvement to 8-8 which be greatful or who knows if we get Patterson and Manuel we could end up with another Julio Jones/Colin Kaepernick situation. As the biggest issue the Bills have had of late is finding starters in the later rounds and it's why we have yet to improve. That said if pick 8 comes around and Geno Smith is there I'm willing to take him and look for a WR like Terrence Williams in Round 2.


Patterson is a reach at 8 because he's only done it for a year. I wouldn't make that pick. QB remains the biggest need. If Wilson had adult sized hands he'd be worth the 8th pick but he doesn't. I doubt Geno lasts until 8 and he's a gamble but that would be a gamble worth taking. Short of that I'd be looking to move down.

[justasportsfan]

That's just something stupid that Rob Johnson and JP Losman fans tell themselves to relieve the guilt and avoid thinking about how they helped **** over the franchise for a decade.

do you think a coach can't ruin a qb? JP had how many OC's in his short career? I think Jauron screwed up Trent Edwards too. A great coach can adjust his system to his players. Dick was married to his dink and dunk philosophy .

[BillsFever21]

All of us want another QB that we can call our franchise guy but outside of maybe Geno Smith there isn't any really worth a Top 10 pick. We have so many other major needs or holes like especially LB(multiple LB's), #2 WR and now possibly a guard and/or FS depending on what happens with Levitre and Byrd, it would be best to make sure we get the best player available at them positions. I'd rather have a legitimate LB then an average QB who would end up being a bust as a Top 10 pick.

If somebody like Nassib and others fell out of the first round and we had a chance to get him in the 2nd I would probably pull the trigger on them but definitely not in the Top 10. If one of them like Nassib or Manuel was still siting there towards the end of the 2nd or in the 3rd I would definitely make a move on one of them though. We will most likely be drafting in or around Top 10 again next year when there is a much stronger QB class to choose from.

The Bills missed the boat with the strong QB classes over the past couple years and we will be paying for it for years to come. Lets not make the problem worse by reaching for an average QB that would've been a 3rd-4th round pick at best in the past two drafts and then wasting a few years on them only to have to revisit the problem again. Lets make sure if we do take one high in the draft it's the right one and not draft one just for the sake of it.

[better days]

All of us want another QB that we can call our franchise guy but outside of maybe Geno Smith there isn't any really worth a Top 10 pick. We have so many other major needs or holes like especially LB(multiple LB's), #2 WR and now possibly a guard and/or FS depending on what happens with Levitre and Byrd, it would be best to make sure we get the best player available at them positions. I'd rather have a legitimate LB then an average QB who would end up being a bust as a Top 10 pick.

If somebody like Nassib and others fell out of the first round and we had a chance to get him in the 2nd I would probably pull the trigger on them but definitely not in the Top 10. If one of them like Nassib or Manuel was still siting there towards the end of the 2nd or in the 3rd I would definitely make a move on one of them though. We will most likely be drafting in or around Top 10 again next year when there is a much stronger QB class to choose from.

The Bills missed the boat with the strong QB classes over the past couple years and we will be paying for it for years to come. Lets not make the problem worse by reaching for an average QB that would've been a 3rd-4th round pick at best in the past two drafts and then wasting a few years on them only to have to revisit the problem again. Lets make sure if we do take one high in the draft it's the right one and not draft one just for the sake of it.

I agree the Bills missed the boat on a QB the last couple years. Nix said 2 or 3 QBs in this draft could seperate themselves & be GOOD QB's & win a lot of games in their careers but you would rather take a LB or WR than a QB with the potential to be good. That would be missing the boat AGAIN.

[The Jokeman]

I agree the Bills missed the boat on a QB the last couple years. Nix said 2 or 3 QBs in this draft could seperate themselves & be GOOD QB's & win a lot of games in their careers but you would rather take a LB or WR than a QB with the potential to be good. That would be missing the boat AGAIN.

For all you know Nix could be commenting on a guy that projects to be a late round prospect. I doubt it's him but a lot of people have been talking about Sean Renfree of late from Duke. As he has NFL size at 6-3 219 ran a good forty time at 4.79 and his collegiate head coach is the same offensive mind that mentored Peyton and Eli Manning. I understand what Nix has said but because we don't know what names he's talking about there's no way of know if they will be available at pick 41 if we look at another position at pick 8. Also let's not forget that there was speculation that Nix might even trade back into Round 1 to take a QB so all your worries that one of the three won't be there at pick 41 is all for not. Yet if you do study the draft it would appear that one of the top three will likely be available based on predraft speculation. Also every year guys drop. As let's not forget just last year people thought for sure Cordy Glenn was in the discussion of being a guy we'd take at pick 10. Also the year Kelsay came out I remember so many people applauded Donahoe as there was belief he was worth taking where we took McGahee. If talk about QBs Aaron Rodgers was talked about as being in competition with Alex Smith to be the top pick but fell to the mid twenties. Some thought Andy Dalton was a quick riser and was going to be 1st Rounder but ended up going in Round 2. I think you're really overvaluing some of the QBs and reaching to take guys that don't warrant such a high pick which is a classic mistake when you make a mistake in a draft.

PS Let's not forget that Joe Ferguson was a 3rd Round pick.

[better days]

For all you know Nix could be commenting on a guy that projects to be a late round prospect. I doubt it's him but a lot of people have been talking about Sean Renfree of late from Duke. As he has NFL size at 6-3 219 ran a good forty time at 4.79 and his collegiate head coach is the same offensive mind that mentored Peyton and Eli Manning. I understand what Nix has said but because we don't know what names he's talking about there's no way of know if they will be available at pick 41 if we look at another position at pick 8. Also let's not forget that there was speculation that Nix might even trade back into Round 1 to take a QB so all your worries that one of the three won't be there at pick 41 is all for not. Yet if you do study the draft it would appear that one of the top three will likely be available based on predraft speculation. Also every year guys drop. As let's not forget just last year people thought for sure Cordy Glenn was in the discussion of being a guy we'd take at pick 10. Also the year Kelsay came out I remember so many people applauded Donahoe as there was belief he was worth taking where we took McGahee. If talk about QBs Aaron Rodgers was talked about as being in competition with Alex Smith to be the top pick but fell to the mid twenties. Some thought Andy Dalton was a quick riser and was going to be 1st Rounder but ended up going in Round 2. I think you're really overvaluing some of the QBs and reaching to take guys that don't warrant such a high pick which is a classic mistake when you make a mistake in a draft.

PS Let's not forget that Joe Ferguson was a 3rd Round pick.

Well, what you say about Renfree is possible , but not likely. I think Nix is talking about 3 of the QBs we have all been debating. He also has said if the QB he wants is there when the Bills pick, he will draft him.

[The Jokeman]

Well, what you say about Renfree is possible , but not likely. I think Nix is talking about 3 of the QBs we have all been debating. He also has said if the QB he wants is there when the Bills pick, he will draft him.

I was just throwing out his name because he's a hot name lately but I doubt he is but again it's speculation as we have no idea who Nix means and because we don't we can only guess. Personally the three QBs I grade best in the draft are Geno Smith, AJ Manuel and Tyler Wilson but who knows what Nix is thinking but to me the only one worth drafting at pick 8 is Smith.

[YardRat]

I'd be thanking a lot more posts in this thread, if only they didn't end up with the 'Geno Smith at 8' caveat...that's where you lose me.

[The Jokeman]

I'd be thanking a lot more posts in this thread, if only they didn't end up with the 'Geno Smith at 8' caveat...that's where you lose me.

Smith is the best QB in this class. I know it's been debated if he's worth a 1st Round pick or not but truth be told prospects get analyzed to death and in the end it's unwarranted. Look back at Aaron Rodgers he was argued to be in the discussion of guys taken with the top pick with Alex Smith. He ended up still being a 1st Round pick and great for the Packers. I know Geno's value is not at the 8th pick but I still value him as a 1st Round QB and that's why am willing to reach for him yet in a perfect world we could slide down to pick 16 and still get him but why take that chance?

[BillsFever21]

I agree the Bills missed the boat on a QB the last couple years. Nix said 2 or 3 QBs in this draft could seperate themselves & be GOOD QB's & win a lot of games in their careers but you would rather take a LB or WR than a QB with the potential to be good. That would be missing the boat AGAIN.

That's probably what the Jaguars thought when they drafted Blaine Gabbert too. It's all about value. Since there isn't any sure things and the gap between the top QB's isn't very much I would rather draft a dominant LB or WR at #8 when you could still pick up somebody rated around the same value in the 2nd round. I bet teams like the Jags or the Vikings would've rather took a guy like Andy Dalton or Kapernick in the 2nd round as opposed to taking Gabbert or Ponder in the 1st round.

It's different if you have a legitimate QB and a big gap in between them but that's not the case this year. When you are even having the conversation about only one QB being drafted in the Top 10 when every other year you are talking a QB at #1 and 3 QB's being drafted in the top 10 that tells you all you need to know about this class.

I'd take Geno Smith at #8 if he was still there but I wouldn't reach for another QB that you could have late in the first or a player close to his rating in the second round. And if he does think there is a couple QB's who can separate themselves it doesn't mean he thinks they are top 10 picks. This is the same guy who thought that Aaron Williams would be more valuable then Dalton or Kapernick or TJ Graham more valuable then Russell Wilson last year even after Fitzpatrick was proving to be a bust. With Buddy's track record I wouldn't trust his judgement all that well.

[better days]

That's probably what the Jaguars thought when they drafted Blaine Gabbert too. It's all about value. Since there isn't any sure things and the gap between the top QB's isn't very much I would rather draft a dominant LB or WR at #8 when you could still pick up somebody rated around the same value in the 2nd round. I bet teams like the Jags or the Vikings would've rather took a guy like Andy Dalton or Kapernick in the 2nd round as opposed to taking Gabbert or Ponder in the 1st round.

It's different if you have a legitimate QB and a big gap in between them but that's not the case this year. When you are even having the conversation about only one QB being drafted in the Top 10 when every other year you are talking a QB at #1 and 3 QB's being drafted in the top 10 that tells you all you need to know about this class.

I'd take Geno Smith at #8 if he was still there but I wouldn't reach for another QB that you could have late in the first or a player close to his rating in the second round. And if he does think there is a couple QB's who can separate themselves it doesn't mean he thinks they are top 10 picks. This is the same guy who thought that Aaron Williams would be more valuable then Dalton or Kapernick or TJ Graham more valuable then Russell Wilson last year even after Fitzpatrick was proving to be a bust. With Buddy's track record I wouldn't trust his judgement all that well.

I disagree. It is all about drafting a GOOD player. As long as the player drafted is GOOD, I don't care if McShay or Kiper or anyone else say he was drafted too high. Value is BS. The only value that is real is the Value a player has to a team AFTER he is drafted.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That's probably what the Jaguars thought when they drafted Blaine Gabbert too. It's all about value. Since there isn't any sure things and the gap between the top QB's isn't very much I would rather draft a dominant LB or WR at #8 when you could still pick up somebody rated around the same value in the 2nd round. I bet teams like the Jags or the Vikings would've rather took a guy like Andy Dalton or Kapernick in the 2nd round as opposed to taking Gabbert or Ponder in the 1st round.

No, the Gabbert example is what happens when you draft guys who are mediocre against college competition and get hyped on physical potential at the underwear olympics. I watched a lot of Big 12 football that year and it made my head spin that anyone thought Gabbert was more than a third round prospect.

[kishoph]

I was just throwing out his name because he's a hot name lately but I doubt he is but again it's speculation as we have no idea who Nix means and because we don't we can only guess. Personally the three QBs I grade best in the draft are Geno Smith, AJ Manuel and Tyler Wilson but who knows what Nix is thinking but to me the only one worth drafting at pick 8 is Smith.

When Nix talked about Smith a little while back, he didn't seem very high on him, saying at one point that Smith only sees half of the field, probably relating to WV's offense, where Smith wasn't made to go through the progressions that he will have to in the NFL. I'm not sold on Smith myself. He's athletically gifted, but does he have the rest to be an NFL QB ? I just read where one NFL scout (no name given, of course) compared him to Akili Smith. I'm not going to ***** and scream if they draft him, since I believe that the Bills are going nowhere without a QB and he may very well turn out to be good, but he wouldn't be my first choice, or second, or probably not even the 3rd.

[PromoTheRobot]

I think Geno is a legit Top 10 QB, and I like Wilson in the same area. After them though I'll pass until Round 2.

Please define what "Top 10" means in this case? Top 10 QB based on opinion? Passing yards? TDs? QBR?

PTR

[sukie]

I like how many here talk of who would be good, who would be a bust or a wasted pick yet no one knows for sure. i bet the Russell Wilson pick ar the Kaepernick pick was viewed cross eyed by the respective fan boards.

[better days]

I like how many here talk of who would be good, who would be a bust or a wasted pick yet no one knows for sure. i bet the Russell Wilson pick ar the Kaepernick pick was viewed cross eyed by the respective fan boards.

Well, I wanted the Bills to draft Wilson & posted that many times last year.

[BillsFever21]

I disagree. It is all about drafting a GOOD player. As long as the player drafted is GOOD, I don't care if McShay or Kiper or anyone else say he was drafted too high. Value is BS. The only value that is real is the Value a player has to a team AFTER he is drafted.

Of course it only matters what they do after the draft and as long as they are good then where they are drafted doesn't matter. The point is that you don't turn down a much better rated prospect at a much needed position to draft a mediocre rated player where the gap between the following guys after him is very low and you could still get that player much later in the draft or somebody of the same skill set.

That would've been like the Bengals when they needed a QB and a WR. By that theory of not wanting to miss out on a QB in the first round they should've taken Locker, Gabbert or Ponder instead of AJ Green. The separation between them guys and the next set of QB's they could have had in the in the 2nd round was very low or the same in Dalton and Kapernick. In reality they even turned out better then Gabbert, Locker and Ponder as of now. Locker has a little more potential then Gabbert and Ponder but that was the point being made. I'm sure now instead of reach for Gabbert the Jaguars probably wish they would've drafted JJ Watt instead.

You don't just stick to a certain position when you have multiple needs like our team does and pass on a much better player with a wider gap of talent at that position and reach for somebody else instead when them or somebody else of close value could be had the next time you come up to draft. If that was the case then the Bengals would've overreacted and drafted one of them three instead. If your team is already set and you're only a QB or whatever away then that's different. That is not the case with our team.

And if you want to go by the great judgement of Buddy Nix he is the same guy that jumped the gun and gave Fitzpatrick 20 million dollars of guaranteed money after a good month to start the season. Then to make matters worse after he bombed out on that he didn't hedge is decision with the most important position on the team and drafted Aaron Williams over Dalton or Kapernick. That was another great judgement call for Buddy Nix. Even after another horrible season for Fitzpatrick he made matters even worse by passing on Russell Wilson or even Nick Foles for TJ Graham. Anyone who trusts Buddy's judgement 100% has blinders on because his judgement has been horrible since he's been here. Especially with the QB position.

Sure everyone wants to fantasize about having a great franchise QB but if they aren't there in the Top 10 then you must make sure you get a blue chip player at one of your other important area of needs. If Geno Smith is there then I'd roll the dice on him but if not then you need to go for one of the top LB's or WR's. The point that they are even questioning whether a QB will be drafted in the Top 10 with all the teams drafting there needing a QB tells you how weak the class is and that there isn't much separation between the 2nd rated QB and the 4th rated QB. Between Barkley, Wilson , Nassib, Glendon and Manuel there will be at least 3 of them still there in the 2nd round and probably even one the three between Nassib, Glendon and Manuel will be there in the 3rd round.

The draft is just as much strategy as it is finding the good players. You want to get as much talent as possible to fill your needs. The teams that stick to just one certain position and reach if the top tier players are already gone early in the draft are the ones who end up drafting an average player at best when they could've had a Pro Bowl type player.. In the end they could've had the same value of a player in the following round most of the time.

[better days]

Of course it only matters what they do after the draft and as long as they are good then where they are drafted doesn't matter. The point is that you don't turn down a much better rated prospect at a much needed position to draft a mediocre rated player where the gap between the following guys after him is very low and you could still get that player much later in the draft or somebody of the same skill set.

That would've been like the Bengals when they needed a QB and a WR. By that theory of not wanting to miss out on a QB in the first round they should've taken Locker, Gabbert or Ponder instead of AJ Green. The separation between them guys and the next set of QB's they could have had in the in the 2nd round was very low or the same in Dalton and Kapernick. In reality they even turned out better then Gabbert, Locker and Ponder as of now. Locker has a little more potential then Gabbert and Ponder but that was the point being made. I'm sure now instead of reach for Gabbert the Jaguars probably wish they would've drafted JJ Watt instead.

You don't just stick to a certain position when you have multiple needs like our team does and pass on a much better player with a wider gap of talent at that position and reach for somebody else instead when them or somebody else of close value could be had the next time you come up to draft. If that was the case then the Bengals would've overreacted and drafted one of them three instead.

And if you want to go by the great judgement of Buddy Nix he is the same guy that jumped the gun and gave Fitzpatrick 20 million dollars of guaranteed money after a good month to start the season. Then to make matters worse after he bombed out on that he didn't hedge is decision with the most important position on the team and drafted Aaron Williams over Dalton or Kapernick. That was another great judgement call for Buddy Nix. Even after another horrible season for Fitzpatrick he made matters even worse by passing on Russell Wilson or even Nick Foles for TJ Graham.

Sure everyone wants to fantasize about having a great franchise QB but if they aren't there in the Top 10 then you must make sure you get a blue chip player at one of your other important area of needs. If Geno Smith is there then I'd roll the dice on him but if not then you need to go for one of the top LB's or WR's. The point that they are even questioning whether a QB will be drafted in the Top 10 with all the teams drafting there need a QB tells you how weak the class is and that there isn't much separation between the 2nd rated QB and the 4th rated QB. Between Barkley, Wilson , Nassib, Glendon and Manuel there will be at least 3 of them still there in the 2nd round and probably even one the three between Nassib, Glendon and Manuel will be there in the 3rd round.

Well, here is the thing. NOBODY knows where TEAMS have players rated. We only know where the "experts" like Kiper & McShay & the fans have them rated. It is very possible the Bengals had Dalton rated higher than Gabbert & Ponder & were hoping for him to fall like Cordy Glenn fell to the Bills. I would bet many teams wish they had drafted Glenn now, just as we wish the Bills had drafted Kaepernick or Wilson.

If one of the two or three QBs Nix thinks will be successful when the Bills draft at #8, he drafts him & why wouldn't he? A starting NFL QB is definately worth the #8 pick. And yes I know it is a gamble, but most players in this draft are a gamble. It seems there are questions about EVERYONE.

There is no Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks or Calvin Johnson in this draft anymore than there is an Andrew Luck or RGIII.

[BillsFever21]

Well, here is the thing. NOBODY knows where TEAMS have players rated. We only know where the "experts" like Kiper & McShay & the fans have them rated. It is very possible the Bengals had Dalton rated higher than Gabbert & Ponder & were hoping for him to fall like Cordy Glenn fell to the Bills. I would bet many teams wish they had drafted Glenn now, just as we wish the Bills had drafted Kaepernick or Wilson.

If one of the two or three QBs Nix thinks will be successful when the Bills draft at #8, he drafts him & why wouldn't he? A starting NFL QB is definately worth the #8 pick. And yes I know it is a gamble, but most players in this draft are a gamble. It seems there are questions about EVERYONE.

There is no Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks or Calvin Johnson in this draft anymore than there is an Andrew Luck or RGIII.

Then with your logic if they had Dalton rated that high and needed a QB like they did then there is no way they should've took the chance and rolled the dice on waiting and drafted him #4 instead of taking AJ Green. They probably looked at who was left and said to themselves there isn't much of a gap between the remaining QB's and none of them are worth the #4 pick and one or more of them will be available when we draft in the 2nd round so we will wait until then.

There's a reason why the good teams consistently have better drafts then teams like the Bills, Raiders, etc. They evaluate players good, they don't panic and overdraft a level of player a round too soon, they have a good grasp on player value to other teams and they plan ahead. They also have the ability to gauge what group of players will be available with their next pick. Between all of that info they make the best choice to build their teams. The Bills and Buddy Nix hasn't been one of them.

As far as Cordy Glenn goes that's a different subject. We're talking about just going and drafting a QB no matter what when there could be the same value later on. In every draft there will be players that end up better then others drafted ahead of them at their position. If that's the case then only the highest drafted players would always be the better players in the long run.

Hypothetically speaking if a bad team like us has must needs at QB, DT and LB in that order and they draft 15th in the 1st round. If there have already been 4 QB's drafted, 5 DT's drafted and your second rated LB was still on the board which one do you take? In your scenario you still take the QB(or even the DT) no matter what even though there isn't much of a gap between the rest of them that will be available in the 2nd round and pass on top notch LB instead even though the run on LB's are coming and there's a big gap between the next level of players before you pick again. Then by the time you draft again you are left with nothing but the 2nd/3rd tier players at them positions and never got one of the better rated players on your board. It's all about maximizing the value of your needs when you have as many as we do.

[BillsFever21]

Unfortunately with the Bills luck most of the top rated players this year are all at the OL/DE positions. It would be nice if we could trade down but that probably won't be the case. Especially if Geno Smith is gone I would take Jarvis Jones or even somebody like Milliner if he fell to us. We don't have one LB on the roster that is starting quality.

Either that or we could draft a QB for the hell of it even though many of these guys would be 2nd round picks in the past few drafts. That would've been like in 2010 with a weak QB class and taking Tebow or Jimmy Clausen in the first round since they were the top 3 drafted QB's. Or maybe like 2007 where the top QB drafted were Russell, Quinn, Kolb, Beck, Stanton and our very own Trent Edwards(who many who wants us to draft one at #8 no matter what probably thought was our savior) to round out the top 3 rounds.

If this year is anything like that year then we would've drafted Quinn, Kolb or maybe even one of the other guys in the 1st round no matter what just because we needed a QB. It didn't matter who you took they all stunk. There was a reason why Quinn was the 2nd QB drafted at #22. Them other teams didn't jump the gun in the Top 10 because they knew they were junk and one out of that group could be had in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. But hey lets just go ahead and draft one at #8 just because even if there is another dominant player at a position of need available.

[better days]

Then with your logic if they had Dalton rated that high and needed a QB like they did then there is no way they should've took the chance and rolled the dice on waiting and drafted him #4 instead of taking AJ Green. They probably looked at who was left and said to themselves there isn't much of a gap between the remaining QB's and none of them are worth the #4 pick and one or more of them will be available when we draft in the 2nd round so we will wait until then.

There's a reason why the good teams consistently have better drafts then teams like the Bills, Raiders, etc. They evaluate players good, they don't panic and overdraft a level of player a round too soon, they have a good grasp on player value to other teams and they plan ahead. They also have the ability to gauge what group of players will be available with their next pick. Between all of that info they make the best choice to build their teams. The Bills and Buddy Nix hasn't been one of them.

As far as Cordy Glenn goes that's a different subject. We're talking about just going and drafting a QB no matter what when there could be the same value later on. In every draft there will be players that end up better then others drafted ahead of them at their position. If that's the case then only the highest drafted players would always be the better players in the long run.

Hypothetically speaking if a bad team like us has must needs at QB, DT and LB in that order and they draft 15th in the 1st round. If there have already been 4 QB's drafted, 5 DT's drafted and your second rated LB was still on the board which one do you take? In your scenario you still take the QB(or even the DT) no matter what even though there isn't much of a gap between the rest of them that will be available in the 2nd round and pass on top notch LB instead even though the run on LB's are coming and there's a big gap between the next level of players before you pick again. Then by the time you draft again you are left with nothing but the 2nd/3rd tier players at them positions and never got one of the better rated players on your board. It's all about maximizing the value of your needs when you have as many as we do.

Well, the fact is Nix thinks two or three QBs in this draft could be GOOD. He expects 6-8 QBs to be drafted but only 2 or 3 of them will have the potential to be GOOD. If the Bills wait until the 2nd rnd then most likely the GOOD QBs will already be off the board & the Bills will have their choice of a QB that Nix does not think will be good.

If a QB is there that Nix likes, I expect the Bills to draft him. We can't go into next season with a ROOKIE HC, Fitz & a Rookie QB that has no potential to be good. If no QBs are drafted before #8, I could see the Bills trading down & then getting a QB. Jim Kelly also said he thought the Bills may trade down.

[X-Era]

Well, the fact is Nix thinks two or three QBs in this draft could be GOOD. He expects 6-8 QBs to be drafted but only 2 or 3 of them will have the potential to be GOOD. If the Bills wait until the 2nd rnd then most likely the GOOD QBs will already be off the board & the Bills will have their choice of a QB that Nix does not think will be good.

If a QB is there that Nix likes, I expect the Bills to draft him. We can't go into next season with a ROOKIE HC, Fitz & a Rookie QB that has no potential to be good. If no QBs are drafted before #8, I could see the Bills trading down & then getting a QB. Jim Kelly also said he thought the Bills may trade down.
1) I'm not convinced that the 3 QB's that Nix thinks are going to be good will be drafted 1, 2, and 3... He may think a guy who goes in the 2nd could be good.

2) A QB at 8 is a very possible scenario. Not because of the value of the player; none belong in the top 15 IMO. But because of the need. The draft is driven by the teams and the teams are usually driven by need more than value. But every team looks to meet needs and get value.

A QB at 8 is very much a real possibility.

[X-Era]

Unfortunately with the Bills luck most of the top rated players this year are all at the OL/DE positions. It would be nice if we could trade down but that probably won't be the case. Especially if Geno Smith is gone I would take Jarvis Jones or even somebody like Milliner if he fell to us. We don't have one LB on the roster that is starting quality.

Either that or we could draft a QB for the hell of it even though many of these guys would be 2nd round picks in the past few drafts. That would've been like in 2010 with a weak QB class and taking Tebow or Jimmy Clausen in the first round since they were the top 3 drafted QB's. Or maybe like 2007 where the top QB drafted were Russell, Quinn, Kolb, Beck, Stanton and our very own Trent Edwards(who many who wants us to draft one at #8 no matter what probably thought was our savior) to round out the top 3 rounds.

If this year is anything like that year then we would've drafted Quinn, Kolb or maybe even one of the other guys in the 1st round no matter what just because we needed a QB. It didn't matter who you took they all stunk. There was a reason why Quinn was the 2nd QB drafted at #22. Them other teams didn't jump the gun in the Top 10 because they knew they were junk and one out of that group could be had in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. But hey lets just go ahead and draft one at #8 just because even if there is another dominant player at a position of need available.
I really think you're overstating how the Bills look at the draft and the QB spot.

But first, and more importantly, the Bills do their drafting, not fans on a message board.

No team drafts a QB for the hell of it. They draft a QB because they need one and because the other teams set the market for one.

Do you think the Bills or any team would take a QB at 8 if the player is only worth a 2nd rounder and NO OTHER team is willing to take that player at 8? Hell no.

The reason the Bills may draft a QB a round early is because many other teams might do the same thing. And over-drafting QB's happens pretty much every year. Nix is telling you he may have to get his guy a round early because that's the truth. Not because he wants to. But because teams covet the position and because OTHER teams are likely to do the same thing. The rest of the teams set the market for QB's not the Bills or fans on a message board.

Unfortunately, the QB position is over-drafted... Players with lower values are drafted higher a) because the position is in such high demand and b) because the teams needing them are willing to do so.

No one probably likes that it is this way; except for the prospects. But it really is that way and to get a QB these days we have to be ready to compete in the draft for one.

But, recent history shows you don;t have to take one in the 1st round necessarily. And this year there are about 8 or 9 prospects with similar grades. It's very possible that a 2nd round QB ends up doing better than a 1st round QB coming out of this draft.

[kishoph]

But, recent history shows you don;t have to take one in the 1st round necessarily. And this year there are about 8 or 9 prospects with similar grades. It's very possible that a 2nd round QB ends up doing better than a 1st round QB coming out of this draft.

I think a lot of it comes down to, do you want to take the risk that the player you are targeting will be there. There are too many teams that need an upgrade at QB and with the recent success of QB's coming in and starting their first year, the value goes up even higher. I don't believe there is any stand out (guaranteed) player that will be there at #8 in any position, so why not take the QB you like (if they like any) where the reward would be so much higher if he pans out, instead of risking the pick on a LB or WR that may not work out. The draft is pretty much a calculated crap shoot.

[better days]

I really think you're overstating how the Bills look at the draft and the QB spot.

But first, and more importantly, the Bills do their drafting, not fans on a message board.

No team drafts a QB for the hell of it. They draft a QB because they need one and because the other teams set the market for one.

Do you think the Bills or any team would take a QB at 8 if the player is only worth a 2nd rounder and NO OTHER team is willing to take that player at 8? Hell no.

The reason the Bills may draft a QB a round early is because many other teams might do the same thing. And over-drafting QB's happens pretty much every year. Nix is telling you he may have to get his guy a round early because that's the truth. Not because he wants to. But because teams covet the position and because OTHER teams are likely to do the same thing. The rest of the teams set the market for QB's not the Bills or fans on a message board.

Unfortunately, the QB position is over-drafted... Players with lower values are drafted higher a) because the position is in such high demand and b) because the teams needing them are willing to do so.

No one probably likes that it is this way; except for the prospects. But it really is that way and to get a QB these days we have to be ready to compete in the draft for one.

But, recent history shows you don;t have to take one in the 1st round necessarily. And this year there are about 8 or 9 prospects with similar grades. It's very possible that a 2nd round QB ends up doing better than a 1st round QB coming out of this draft.

Well, Nix thinks 6 to 8 QBs will be drafted. He thinks 2 or 3 will seperate themselves from the group & be good players. So it looks to me like he has 3 players with similar grades & then a second tier of 5 players with similar lower grades than the first group.

It is posible a player from the first group falls to the 2nd rnd & some team drafts a player from the 2nd group in the first rnd. In that event a QB drafted in the 2nd rnd could turn out better than one taken in the first rnd if Nix made the correct assessment on these guys.

The ideal situation is no QB is drafted before #8. In that event, the Bills could trade back a little knowing a QB will be there. But if a QB or two are already off the board by #8, I think Nix will not gamble & move down, he will take the QB he covets. The Jets could well draft a QB at #9.

[X-Era]

Well, Nix thinks 6 to 8 QBs will be drafted. He thinks 2 or 3 will seperate themselves from the group & be good players. So it looks to me like he has 3 players with similar grades & then a second tier of 5 players with similar lower grades than the first group.

It is posible a player from the first group falls to the 2nd rnd & some team drafts a player from the 2nd group in the first rnd. In that event a QB drafted in the 2nd rnd could turn out better than one taken in the first rnd if Nix made the correct assessment on these guys.

The ideal situation is no QB is drafted before #8. In that event, the Bills could trade back a little knowing a QB will be there. But if a QB or two are already off the board by #8, I think Nix will not gamble & move down, he will take the QB he covets. The Jets could well draft a QB at #9.
I look at it the way Nix does.

I think it's Smith, Barkley, and Wilson in one group. Nassib, Glennon, Manuel, Bray, Jones in the other. I think the top 3 are fairly similar in grade and ought to be late 1 to early 2nd rounders. I think the next group is 2nd round to 3rd rounders.

However, due to the need and over-drafting we could see all 3 of the top group in the top 10 and the next group go early 2. I could even see a QB needy team that didn't get one early in round 1 sneaking back up to late 1 to get their top guy from the next group.

For the Bills, if you want a QB, I think at worst we see the last of the top 3 (Wilson) available at 8 and at best all 3 available at 8.

If we wait until the 2nd I could easily see Nassib being our guy out of the group of 5 and not having to move up from our 2nd rounder to get him.