The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

[YardRat]

Looking back at only the first four rounds...

1986-1-Ronnie Harmon RB-2-no pick-3-Leonard Burton OL-4-no pick
1987-2-Roland Mitchell CB-3-David Brandon LB
1988-1-no pick-3-Bernard Ford WR-4-no pick
1989-1-no pick-2-no pick-4-John Kolesar WR
1990-1-James Williams CB-4-Eddie Fuller RB
1991-3-Darryl Wren CB
1992-2-James Patton DT-3-Keth Goganius LB-4-Frank Kmet DE

....Yes, even Mr Polian had his share of jettisoning a first round RB and drafting first round DB busts (and other high picks also). I even left out some of the 'reaches' like Fina that turned out OK, but not necessarily worth a first round pick.

[The Jokeman]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

Looking back at only the first four rounds...

1986-1-Ronnie Harmon RB-2-no pick-3-Leonard Burton OL-4-no pick
1987-2-Roland Mitchell CB-3-David Brandon LB
1988-1-no pick-3-Bernard Ford WR-4-no pick
1989-1-no pick-2-no pick-4-John Kolesar WR
1990-1-James Williams CB-4-Eddie Fuller RB
1991-3-Darryl Wren CB
1992-2-James Patton DT-3-Keth Goganius LB-4-Frank Kmet DE

....Yes, even Mr Polian had his share of jettisoning a first round RB and drafting first round DB busts (and other high picks also). I even left out some of the 'reaches' like Fina that turned out OK, but not necessarily worth a first round pick.

Ronnie Harmon was not a bad player. He got a bum rap here because of the Cleveland drops but he had a very good career as a 3rd down back in San Diego after he left us. Leondard Burton was a career backup with not much of a career. Mitchell had a decent career after his time here having played seven seasons and starting for Green Bay in his 5th and 6th season. David Brandon had a nine year career which isn't bad. Bernard Ford and John Kolesar were admitted busts. James Williams was the start of the interchangeable 1st Round CBs we saw. Eddie Fuller was always great in preseason but not had a chance sitting behind a HOF guy like Thurman Thomas and an above average back up in Kenny Davis. Darryl Wren I was really high on and but sometimes we miss. Goganius was a sacrafice in the expansion draft as remember we were just too deep at LB that had to let go. Patton and Kmet were admitted busts.

So some of the guys you knocked actually were better than I think you gave credit for as you only looked at their time here but some of them did do things after leaving Buffalo which you can't say for most of our recent busts.

[better days]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

Ronnie Harmon was not a bad player. He got a bum rap here because of the Cleveland drops but he had a very good career as a 3rd down back in San Diego after he left us. Leondard Burton was a career backup with not much of a career. Mitchell had a decent career after his time here having played seven seasons and starting for Green Bay in his 5th and 6th season. David Brandon had a nine year career which isn't bad. Bernard Ford and John Kolesar were admitted busts. James Williams was the start of the interchangeable 1st Round CBs we saw. Eddie Fuller was always great in preseason but not had a chance sitting behind a HOF guy like Thurman Thomas and an above average back up in Kenny Davis. Darryl Wren I was really high on and but sometimes we miss. Goganius was a sacrafice in the expansion draft as remember we were just too deep at LB that had to let go. Patton and Kmet were admitted busts.

So some of the guys you knocked actually were better than I think you gave credit for as you only looked at their time here but some of them did do things after leaving Buffalo which you can't say for most of our recent busts.

If a guy does well AFTER leaving the team that drafted him, I don't think you can say he was not a draft bust for the team that did draft him.

[The Jokeman]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

If a guy does well AFTER leaving the team that drafted him, I don't think you can say he was not a draft bust for the team that did draft him.

and there are tons of reasons why guys bust on one team. Whether it be fit in scheme, coaching, surrounding talent etc. Heck look no further then some of the greats we had on those early 90s teams. Lofton was a scrub with the Raiders but was a Pro Browler here. We picked up Metzelaars was traded to in a trade as he only amassing 27 catches in three seasons in Seattle after being a 3rd Round pick. I just get upset when people never look guys entire careers, as appears Yardie was doing, and label guys as busts in general.

[better days]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

and there are tons of reasons why guys bust on one team. Whether it be fit in scheme, coaching, surrounding talent etc. Heck look no further then some of the greats we had on those early 90s teams. Lofton was a scrub with the Raiders but was a Pro Browler here. We picked up Metzelaars was traded to in a trade as he only amassing 27 catches in three seasons in Seattle after being a 3rd Round pick. I just get upset when people never look guys entire careers, as appears Yardie was doing, and label guys as busts in general.

The Bills drafted a DT that went to SD & had a great & long career as well. I can't remember his name now, but he was a GOOD player for the Chargers. Players can go on to have success for other teams, but for the team that drafted them, I think they can be called draft busts.

[The Jokeman]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

The Bills drafted a DT that went to SD & had a great & long career as well. I can't remember his name now, but he was a GOOD player for the Chargers. Players can go on to have success for other teams, but for the team that drafted them, I think they can be called draft busts.

I think you mean John Parrella.

[YardRat]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

Ronnie Harmon was not a bad player.

I didn't say Harmon was a bad player, but he was a first round RB that wore out his welcome and got shipped out of town for lesser value, producing for his new team a la Marshawn Lynch.

Part of the point is not all upper-end draft choices need to be starters, PBers or HOFers...some, as you mentioned, become OK depth/back-ups.

[pmoon6]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

You left out Shane Conlan and Nate Odomes in the first and second in '87 and Thurman in the second in '88. Henry Jones and Phil Hansen in the 1st and 2nd in '91. As well as later round picks like Keith Mckellar, Jeff Wright, Howard Ballard, and Carleton Bailey.

Very deceptive list.

[YardRat]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

You left out Shane Conlan and Nate Odomes in the first and second in '87 and Thurman in the second in '88. Henry Jones and Phil Hansen in the 1st and 2nd in '91. As well as later round picks like Keith Mckellar, Jeff Wright, Howard Ballard, and Carleton Bailey.

Very deceptive list.

I left out the 'hits' intentionally, obviously. That's why 'The other side...' is the thread title.

[The Jokeman]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

I didn't say Harmon was a bad player, but he was a first round RB that wore out his welcome and got shipped out of town for lesser value, producing for his new team a la Marshawn Lynch.

Part of the point is not all upper-end draft choices need to be starters, PBers or HOFers...some, as you mentioned, become OK depth/back-ups.

and sadly the Bills of late have failed to find starters in later round and/or even OK depth back ups and why this team is in constant rebuild. How many years ago did we draft Troupe and Easley? Neither one has shown to be anything in the NFL and why we need think about getting a WR this year. Also let's face it if McKelvin played up to where we drafted him the need for Gilmore wouldnt be warranted and we migth have come away with Kendell Wright in Round 1 instead of Tim Graham in Round 3. I still lament on the Lynch decision as prior to that draft I said the best short/long term decision pick was Dez Bryant. What happens? Three years later Lynch is an above average RB and Bryant is a number 1/2 WR in Dallas. I know people will crap on Fitz but given better players around him Fitz might be slightly better. Heck we might even not had drafted Aaron Williams had McKelvin not busted and maybe gotten Dalton or Kaepernick.

[YardRat]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

and sadly the Bills of late have failed to find starters in later round and/or even OK depth back ups and why this team is in constant rebuild. As let's face it if McKelvin played up to where we drafted him the need for Gilmore wouldnt be warranted and we migth have come away with Kendell Wright in Round 1 instead of Tim Graham in Round 3. I still lament on the Lynch decision as prior to that draft I said the best short/long term decision pick was Dez Bryant. What happens? Three years later Lynch is an above average RB and Bryant is a number 1/2 WR in Dallas. I know people will crap on Fitz but given better players around him Fitz might be slightly better.

Go back and review the rest of Polian's drafts...more often than not (far more, actually) his later round picks were real downers.

[The Jokeman]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

Go back and review the rest of Polian's drafts...more often than not (far more, actually) his later round picks were real downers.

True but he was able to make up for that with free agency, trades etc. Honestly Polian was the best we had but as you point out he was far from great. Yet what's the common denominator in everything? Ralph Wilson. He does a great job at running the Bills as a business but a lousy job as a football team as either too cheap to pay good scouts or not trustful enough of his GMs etc or he scares away good HCs (see Saban, Knox and maybe even Wade Phillips). It's sickening really.

[pmoon6]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

I find it amusing that the guy that built the best team in franchise history is being second guessed, after the fact.

Must be the off season.

[The Jokeman]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

I find it amusing that the guy that built the best team in franchise history is being second guessed, after the fact.

Must be the off season.

Maybe he's not second guessing Polian but pointing out this team is flawed even when things were good. As they say winning is the best cologne but if we dig deeper maybe the Bills just lucked out landing Bruce Smith, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas and Jim Kelly all around the same time. As some have mentioned before had Kelly come to Buffalo in 1983 there's no guarantee he'd still be around in 1990.

[pmoon6]

Re: The other side of Bill Polian and the draft

Maybe he's not second guessing Polian but pointing out this team is flawed even when things were good. As they say winning is the best cologne but if we dig deeper maybe the Bills just lucked out landing Bruce Smith, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas and Jim Kelly all around the same time. As some have mentioned before had Kelly come to Buffalo in 1983 there's no guarantee he'd still be around in 1990.

All teams have flaws, that's why the teams that stay healthy are usually the one's that go deep in the playoffs. Also, don't forget that the Bills won the Comeback Game with Kelly, Biscuit and Thurman (for most of the game) on the bench.

Maybe Bill Walsh and Carmen Policy "lucked out" landing Montana in the third and drafting Jerry Rice, Roger Craig and John Taylor. Maybe Jimmy Johnson did the same trading Hershel Walker and getting Emmitt Smith and all the other players he took with those picks. He wasn't as "lucky" in Miami.

It's a ridiculous premise, but like I said, it's the off season.

Carry on.