Would it be best...

[DesertFox24]

Would it be best to not draft a QB high this year and roll with Fitz or Jackson and then get a QB next year.

We could draft a guy like Xavier Rhodes at 8
a big WR in round 2
TE, LBs, later

Draft a guy like Matt Scott or Renfree (Duke) in rounds 5 or 6 and develop them into either a good backup or starter down the road.

Next year in my opinion has more options than this year. Granted I do not see a Luck or RG3 but I see guys I like more than this crop.

[k-oneputt]

No it wouldn't be a good idea to go with Fitz or Jax for another year.
There is no way Russ will be able to sell that to the fan base, unless you want to go 6-10 and have 30,000 people in the stands every home game.
And if they take a cb at #8 it had better be Milliner. Although I do like Rhodes and wouldn't mind him in the 2nd rd.
Don't even waste a pick on those two qb's. Backups at best in the NFL, and you can always find a marginal backup.

[better days]

Would it be best to not draft a QB high this year and roll with Fitz or Jackson and then get a QB next year.

We could draft a guy like Xavier Rhodes at 8
a big WR in round 2
TE, LBs, later

Draft a guy like Matt Scott or Renfree (Duke) in rounds 5 or 6 and develop them into either a good backup or starter down the road.

Next year in my opinion has more options than this year. Granted I do not see a Luck or RG3 but I see guys I like more than this crop.

OK, who do you like in next years draft now? And will you like them as much at the end of next season or will they hurt their stock by having a bad season? Finally, what do you think of the Bills chances to have the chance to draft them next year?

And if this QB class is as bad as many people say it is there will be as many teams next year looking for a QB as there is this year. which is about half the league.

[mjt328]

No.

First of all, we have NO IDEA where we will be drafting next year. Last year, we picked #10 and missed out on the top three quarterbacks available.
Over the last three seasons, the top rated options when our first pick came up were Jimmy Clausen/Tim Tebow (2010), Blaine Gabbert/Jake Locker/Christian Ponder/Andy Dalton/Colin Kaepernick/Ryan Mallett (2011) and Brandon Weeden/Brock Osweiler/Russell Wilson/Kirk Cousins (2012).

Every year, we hear people screaming "wait until the next draft" because the guys available are flawed. But when the next draft comes along, we are faced with the EXACT same situation... flawed quarterbacks that are risky. Yes, most of the guys we COULD have snatched up would have been bad picks. Looking back, I'm glad we didn't go for Clausen or Tebow or Gabbert. But then again, by taking a chance we could have ended up with Dalton, Kaepernick or Wilson. Even someone like Ponder or Cousins seems to have more upside than sticking with Fitzpatrick for another lost season.

Second, we have NO IDEA what next year's (or the year after's) group of quarterbacks will look like when draft time comes around.
There was a time when Landry Jones was one of the top quarterback prospects in the nation. Do you remember... last year, we heard - wait until next year and maybe we can get Matt Barkley. Now that Barkely may fall in our lap, we don't want him anymore. Give them another season or two in college and we will probably see the amplified shortcomings of guys like Aaron Murray, Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel.

Third... Waiting another year to take a quarterback means that 2013 is already another guaranteed lost season. Our current top players - Spiller, Stevie, KWilliams - are another year older. We've got another group of free agents that need to be retained. Our contract with Mario becomes a little harder to justify.

Finally, this year's group - while not on the level of Luck or RGIII - has plenty of talent. Maybe none of them are worth a Top 10 pick to the "experts", but most feel that 2-3 quarterbacks in this draft are mid-to-low first rounders and another 5-6 are worthy of early-to-mid second round grades. I would be willing to bet that a few of them emerge as solid starters in the NFL, if not better.

Sure, the ideal situation for the Bills is to wait until the second round to get their man. But that means quarterback-needy teams like Kansas City, Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Arizona and Philadelphia will get two draft picks before we take a quarterback. The New York Jets will get one pick, assuming they don't trade up. Word out of Houston is that they will consider a quarterback with their first round pick as well. It's quite possible that 6-7 quarterbacks are gone before the #40 draft selection.

Personally, I don't think the non-QBs that will be available at #8 are good enough to justify taking the risk that we don't get the BEST quarterback on our draft board.
Would you be happier with someone like Cordelle Patterson, along with a quarterback like Zac Dysert or Landry Jones?
Or would you be happier with someone like Geno Smith, along with a wide receiver like Justin Hunter or Robert Woods?

[jamze132]

No.

First of all, we have NO IDEA where we will be drafting next year.

Uh, yeah we do. Top 10

[DesertFox24]

I hear what you guys are saying and all but do you want to force a round peg in a square hole.

What if with the acquistion of a top flight corner we could have a jets or steelers style defense that is top 5 in both categories.

We all read what Metz had to say Fitz is average to below average and if you have elite defense he can win.

Look I want Fitz gone as much as the next but no one was thinking Russell Wilson was going to be any good this time last year.

I agree with the odds that most playoff QBs come in rounds 1 and 2, but if Marrone and Heckert dont see a guy they like or think can run their offense better why force it to sell seats.

Bottom line they start winning people will come back, if they keep losing even with a new face of the franchise they will stop coming.

I do not personally think there is anyone at 8 worth the pick and not just QBs this is a terrible draft to be in the top 10, there is a lot of talent deeper in the draft but not elite talents.

I would rather draft a stud at 8 and then trade up and get a QB, hopefully Tyler Wilson he is the only one I like and think could win in buffalo.

[mjt328]

Uh, yeah we do. Top 10

True...

But even Top 10 is almost never good enough to nab a top QB prospect. Most years, Top 5 isn't good enough.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Seems pretty obvious that the best thing we can do is draft any QB at 8, regardless of the expert opinions, and force him into a starting role this year because it worked for Russell Wilson.

[Ed]

It might be what's best if none of these qb's end up being any good, but who knows what next year will bring. We might be in the exact same situation or worse. The reality is that a couple of these guys are probably going to end up being pretty good. We just need to pick the right one. It's a gamble, but you're never going to get a franchise qb if you're always waiting for the perfect scenario to unfold.

[Night Train]

Seems pretty obvious that the best thing we can do is draft any QB at 8, regardless of the expert opinions, and force him into a starting role this year because it worked for Russell Wilson.

..and then complain when we draft in the top 5-6 next year..

[mjt328]

Seems pretty obvious that the best thing we can do is draft any QB at 8, regardless of the expert opinions, and force him into a starting role this year because it worked for Russell Wilson.

Here is the thing.

Even if the Bills sign big name free agents and draft Pro Bowlers in the first round every year, I don't believe the Bills can compete until they get the quarterback situation fixed. It doesn't matter how good our defensive line is, or how great CJ Spiller is. The quarterback position will always pull us down.

I believe that even with the best team in the NFL around him, Fitz has a 6-7 win ceiling. And Tavaris Jackson is not going to be any better.

So... I would rather take a flier on a top QB prospect EVERY YEAR until we get it right, as opposed to wasting picks on safer players at other positions.

[k-oneputt]

No qb, no play-offs, no Superbowl. Simple as that in today's NFL.

[sukie]

Select a QB somewhere fairly high in the draft every year starting this year until you hit on one. Skill position players even on D mean jack without a good to great QB. We can build a really good D but the days of coasting with Dilferesque QBs is over.

I would rather waste QB picks and finally hit then speculate on who is a sure thing or not.

[Extremebillsfan247]

If Russ Brandon is serious about building a winning organization, the last thing he should think about is how to sell it to the fans. Regardless of what fans may think of the product on paper, if it wins, it will sell, bottom line. Just saying.

[OpIv37]

No.

First of all, we have NO IDEA where we will be drafting next year. Last year, we picked #10 and missed out on the top three quarterbacks available.
Over the last three seasons, the top rated options when our first pick came up were Jimmy Clausen/Tim Tebow (2010), Blaine Gabbert/Jake Locker/Christian Ponder/Andy Dalton/Colin Kaepernick/Ryan Mallett (2011) and Brandon Weeden/Brock Osweiler/Russell Wilson/Kirk Cousins (2012).

Every year, we hear people screaming "wait until the next draft" because the guys available are flawed. But when the next draft comes along, we are faced with the EXACT same situation... flawed quarterbacks that are risky. Yes, most of the guys we COULD have snatched up would have been bad picks. Looking back, I'm glad we didn't go for Clausen or Tebow or Gabbert. But then again, by taking a chance we could have ended up with Dalton, Kaepernick or Wilson. Even someone like Ponder or Cousins seems to have more upside than sticking with Fitzpatrick for another lost season.

Second, we have NO IDEA what next year's (or the year after's) group of quarterbacks will look like when draft time comes around.
There was a time when Landry Jones was one of the top quarterback prospects in the nation. Do you remember... last year, we heard - wait until next year and maybe we can get Matt Barkley. Now that Barkely may fall in our lap, we don't want him anymore. Give them another season or two in college and we will probably see the amplified shortcomings of guys like Aaron Murray, Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel.

Third... Waiting another year to take a quarterback means that 2013 is already another guaranteed lost season. Our current top players - Spiller, Stevie, KWilliams - are another year older. We've got another group of free agents that need to be retained. Our contract with Mario becomes a little harder to justify.

Finally, this year's group - while not on the level of Luck or RGIII - has plenty of talent. Maybe none of them are worth a Top 10 pick to the "experts", but most feel that 2-3 quarterbacks in this draft are mid-to-low first rounders and another 5-6 are worthy of early-to-mid second round grades. I would be willing to bet that a few of them emerge as solid starters in the NFL, if not better.

Sure, the ideal situation for the Bills is to wait until the second round to get their man. But that means quarterback-needy teams like Kansas City, Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Arizona and Philadelphia will get two draft picks before we take a quarterback. The New York Jets will get one pick, assuming they don't trade up. Word out of Houston is that they will consider a quarterback with their first round pick as well. It's quite possible that 6-7 quarterbacks are gone before the #40 draft selection.

Personally, I don't think the non-QBs that will be available at #8 are good enough to justify taking the risk that we don't get the BEST quarterback on our draft board.
Would you be happier with someone like Cordelle Patterson, along with a quarterback like Zac Dysert or Landry Jones?
Or would you be happier with someone like Geno Smith, along with a wide receiver like Justin Hunter or Robert Woods?
1. 2013 is wasted regardless of what the team does about QB. We will be lucky to equal last year's 6 wins.
2. This is a long-winded way to say "Buddy Nix has pigeon-holed us into trying to find a QB in a draft that's weak on QB's."
3. The best QB on our board is not going to be very good.

[mush69]

1. 2013 is wasted regardless of what the team does about QB. We will be lucky to equal last year's 6 wins.
2. This is a long-winded way to say "Buddy Nix has pigeon-holed us into trying to find a QB in a draft that's weak on QB's."
3. The best QB on our board is not going to be very good.

Thanks for the cliff notes version, I scolled over the first post.

We are going with BPA at #8, it is what Buddy Does!

[RedEyE]

I honestly think it may work out this way anyway. I'm not sure any of the QBs in this draft class will be NFL ready by the 1st regular season game. The chances of the Bills drafting one of these kids and Fitz or TJAX leading the charge into next season is still pretty high.

With that being said, I really think the Bills already know what they have in their veteran QBs. And they really should pull the trigger on a young QB this season and hope the gamble pays off despite the odds.

[Mouldsie]

Yes.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Here is the thing.

Even if the Bills sign big name free agents and draft Pro Bowlers in the first round every year, I don't believe the Bills can compete until they get the quarterback situation fixed. It doesn't matter how good our defensive line is, or how great CJ Spiller is. The quarterback position will always pull us down.

I believe that even with the best team in the NFL around him, Fitz has a 6-7 win ceiling. And Tavaris Jackson is not going to be any better.

So... I would rather take a flier on a top QB prospect EVERY YEAR until we get it right, as opposed to wasting picks on safer players at other positions.

I am in no way saying that I'm a draft expert, but if this year is like it was with Jamarcus Russell and Brady Quinn, then that plan would be an even bigger waste of our 1st round picks than our recent history of selections.

- - - Updated - - -


No qb, no play-offs, no Superbowl. Simple as that in today's NFL.

Drafting a QB at 8 doesn't necessarily solve your little equation there.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Here is the thing.

Even if the Bills sign big name free agents and draft Pro Bowlers in the first round every year, I don't believe the Bills can compete until they get the quarterback situation fixed. It doesn't matter how good our defensive line is, or how great CJ Spiller is. The quarterback position will always pull us down.

I believe that even with the best team in the NFL around him, Fitz has a 6-7 win ceiling. And Tavaris Jackson is not going to be any better.

So... I would rather take a flier on a top QB prospect EVERY YEAR until we get it right, as opposed to wasting picks on safer players at other positions.

If we drafted the next available QB every year with our 1st round pick, this theory would get us..

Brandon Weeden
Jake Locker
Tim Tebow/Jimmy Clausen


Then we'd be left without

Stephon Gilmore
Marcell Dareus
CJ Spiller


SIGN ME UP!!

[Bill Cody]

Would it be best to not draft a QB high this year and roll with Fitz or Jackson and then get a QB next year.

We could draft a guy like Xavier Rhodes at 8
a big WR in round 2
TE, LBs, later

Draft a guy like Matt Scott or Renfree (Duke) in rounds 5 or 6 and develop them into either a good backup or starter down the road.

Next year in my opinion has more options than this year. Granted I do not see a Luck or RG3 but I see guys I like more than this crop.

My preference would be to take 2 QB's this year, both of whom are projects: Manuel in the late first if we trade down, 2nd if we don't, Renfree in the 7th. I would cut Fitz and play Tjax for the year.

[better days]

1. 2013 is wasted regardless of what the team does about QB. We will be lucky to equal last year's 6 wins.
2. This is a long-winded way to say "Buddy Nix has pigeon-holed us into trying to find a QB in a draft that's weak on QB's."
3. The best QB on our board is not going to be very good.

And you said my posts are all conjecture WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

Yeah well my conjecture is about a draft and season that haven't happened yet.

Your conjecture was being used to evaluate Nix instead of evaluating him on what he's actually accomplished.

[better days]

Yeah well my conjecture is about a draft and season that haven't happened yet.

Your conjecture was being used to evaluate Nix instead of evaluating him on what he's actually accomplished.

Yeah, well my conjecture was based on facts. I think it is much more likely that the players Nix has drafted continue to develop with good Coaching than the Bills winning 6 games or less next year. We will see. And the best QB on the Bills board may be gone before the Bills have a chance to draft him, but I will bet at least one QB in this draft will be GOOD.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, well my conjecture was based on facts. I think it is much more likely that the players Nix has drafted continue to develop with good Coaching than the Bills winning 6 games or less next year. We will see. And the best QB on the Bills board may be gone before the Bills have a chance to draft him, but I will bet at least one QB in this draft will be GOOD.
Well it's a fact that the Bills need a QB. And it's a fact that everyone who knows anything about the draft says this is a weak QB class. At the very least, it's clear that there is no can't miss Andrew Luck type. So, my conjecture is based on fact as well.

As far as players developing, well that's turning into a Discotrish doomsday prediction. Every year since this site has been in existence, I've heard about how we will get better through "player improvement." It has yet to happen. But if it gets predicted every year, eventually someone will be right....

[better days]

Well it's a fact that the Bills need a QB. And it's a fact that everyone who knows anything about the draft says this is a weak QB class. At the very least, it's clear that there is no can't miss Andrew Luck type. So, my conjecture is based on fact as well.

As far as players developing, well that's turning into a Discotrish doomsday prediction. Every year since this site has been in existence, I've heard about how we will get better through "player improvement." It has yet to happen. But if it gets predicted every year, eventually someone will be right....

No you said the best QB on the Bills board will not be very good. There is NO fact in that, ALL conjecture.

I maintain at least one QB in this class will be good. Probably 2 or 3 will be good as Nix has said.

As far as players improving, Did CJ improve last year? Did McKelvin improve last year? Dareus had terrible coaching & personal problems as well, his mind was not on football & he said as much. I expect with good coaching to see improvement from the players on the Bills next year. If not, Marrone should be fired.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well it's a fact that the Bills need a QB. And it's a fact that everyone who knows anything about the draft says this is a weak QB class.

Why do people keep bringing up the weak qb "class"? We're not picking an aggregate of all their skills, we're taking one guy. 2004 was maybe the best QB class ever, we took one, and he busted. The actual question is, is there a guy in this class who can be successful? I absolutely think there are, and at #8 we'd likely have our pick of them. At #41 we might be looking at the 5th or 6th QB off the board.


At the very least, it's clear that there is no can't miss Andrew Luck type.

So? If there was a can't miss Andrew Luck type we'd have zero shot at drafting him at #8. And if we tried to make an RG3 trade to get him, we wouldn't have any picks left around him.

[OpIv37]

The "class" thing is important because we are not the only team that gets to draft and we are not the only team that needs a QB. The lack of quality options in this draft compared to most reduces the chances that we will find our man.

Same goes with the Luck type prospect. If it were a better class and there was a consensus #1 guy, it would increase our chances of getting #2 or 3.

[k-oneputt]

If Russ Brandon is serious about building a winning organization, the last thing he should think about is how to sell it to the fans. Regardless of what fans may think of the product on paper, if it wins, it will sell, bottom line. Just saying.

And you can't/don't win big without a qb.
So let's just keep pushing it off and go with the Fitz/Jax garbage. Really ?

[better days]

The "class" thing is important because we are not the only team that gets to draft and we are not the only team that needs a QB. The lack of quality options in this draft compared to most reduces the chances that we will find our man.

Same goes with the Luck type prospect. If it were a better class and there was a consensus #1 guy, it would increase our chances of getting #2 or 3.

The fact there are a number of teams looking for a QB with a limited number of QBs with potential to be good available in this class is the exact reason the Bills must draft one at #8 if one of the 2 or 3 Nix likes is still there.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The "class" thing is important because we are not the only team that gets to draft and we are not the only team that needs a QB. The lack of quality options in this draft compared to most reduces the chances that we will find our man.

Same goes with the Luck type prospect. If it were a better class and there was a consensus #1 guy, it would increase our chances of getting #2 or 3.

If there's a run on QBs before the #8 pick, then fine, bow to reality and pick someone else. But if, as many speculate, there will be no QBs off the board by #8 then the quality of the "class" is irrelevant. Whether or not Tyler Bray will be successful has no bearing on whether Geno Smith or Wilson or Barkley or Nassib or whomever will be.

[OpIv37]

The fact there are a number of teams looking for a QB with a limited number of QBs with potential to be good available in this class is the exact reason the Bills must draft one at #8 if one of the 2 or 3 Nix likes is still there.
It's the exact reason why we SHOULDN'T take one at 8. But I think we've already had this discussion in at least two other threads.

[OpIv37]

If there's a run on QBs before the #8 pick, then fine, bow to reality and pick someone else. But if, as many speculate, there will be no QBs off the board by #8 then the quality of the "class" is irrelevant. Whether or not Tyler Bray will be successful has no bearing on whether Geno Smith or Wilson or Barkley or Nassib or whomever will be.

I disagree. I'd much rather have to choose between RGIII and Luck than be sitting in the war room trying to figure out if Bray or Barkley or Wilson or Smith are worthy of the #8 pick after the other teams already decided that none of them were worth 1-7. That's why the "class" matters.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I disagree. I'd much rather have to choose between RGIII and Luck than be sitting in the war room trying to figure out if Bray or Barkley or Wilson or Smith are worthy of the #8 pick after the other teams already decided that none of them were worth 1-7. That's why the "class" matters.

Er, no crap. We would all love to be choosing between two near-flawless QB prospects. But how many teams have ever been in that situation besides the 2012 Colts? The rest of us muggles have to try to evaluate and find which one has flaws that can be minimized or corrected and strengths that can be enhanced.

[OpIv37]

Er, no crap. We would all love to be choosing between two near-flawless QB prospects. But how many teams have ever been in that situation besides the 2012 Colts? The rest of us muggles have to try to evaluate and find which one has flaws that can be minimized or corrected and strengths that can be enhanced.
And in other years with better QB classes, that's easier to do and you have a better chance of getting it right.

The stakes are high here. This team has tons of holes and needs to fill one with the #8. If we don't, expect three years if last place finishes followed by another coaching and GM change.

[sukie]

.

This team has tons of holes and needs to fill one with the #8. If we don't, expect three years if last place finishes followed by another coaching and GM change.

Without a QB upgrade I expect a three and out anyway.

[Captain Obvious]

be sitting in the war room trying to figure out if Bray or Barkley or Wilson or Smith are worthy of the #8 pick after the other teams already decided that none of them were worth 1-7.

The reason why the Lions picking @5 will pass on all those QBS you mentioned is because they have Matthew Stafford and not because all those QBs are crap

[OpIv37]

The reason why the Lions picking @5 will pass on all those QBS you mentioned is because they have Matthew Stafford and not because all those QBs are crap

That's one- what about the other 6? And why didnt anyone try to trade up?

[Joe Fo Sho]

The reason why the Lions picking @5 will pass on all those QBS you mentioned is because they have Matthew Stafford and not because all those QBs are crap

If the Lions QB situation is set, then why are they picking so early?

[ServoBillieves]

(A year ago) Yeah, Matt Barkley will be a beast at the NFL level, let's suck this year for him.

How does that usually work out in the end?

[better days]

I disagree. I'd much rather have to choose between RGIII and Luck than be sitting in the war room trying to figure out if Bray or Barkley or Wilson or Smith are worthy of the #8 pick after the other teams already decided that none of them were worth 1-7. That's why the "class" matters.

Well, if RGIII & Luck were available, as they were last year, the Bills would have NO CHANCE to draft either of them, so you can't choose between them. The best hope for a Bills QB is that a QB AVAILABLE to them this year will be GOOD. We can not live in the past & we don't know what the future holds.

[Mouldsie]

(A year ago) Yeah, Matt Barkley will be a beast at the NFL level, let's suck this year for him.

How does that usually work out in the end?
Would be valid if I ever liked Barkely

[Ginger Vitis]

I disagree. I'd much rather have to choose between RGIII and Luck than be sitting in the war room trying to figure out if Bray or Barkley or Wilson or Smith are worthy of the #8 pick after the other teams already decided that none of them were worth 1-7. That's why the "class" matters.

Yeah the Cleveland browns have such a great track record of QB evaluation if they dont take a quarterback with there 1st round pick the Bills shouldnt either.

[BillsFever21]

Well it's a fact that the Bills need a QB. And it's a fact that everyone who knows anything about the draft says this is a weak QB class. At the very least, it's clear that there is no can't miss Andrew Luck type. So, my conjecture is based on fact as well.

As far as players developing, well that's turning into a Discotrish doomsday prediction. Every year since this site has been in existence, I've heard about how we will get better through "player improvement." It has yet to happen. But if it gets predicted every year, eventually someone will be right....

We're always just another year away from free agency, our previous draft class "progressing", the current draft to add talent and/or another year under the coaching staff/new coach from being a playoff team. Some act like we're the only team who has them luxuries. We have been hearing the same thing since this board opened from all of the same people. The same people blast us for our Top 10 drafting position predictions. I hope one of these days they are right and they can finally come back and say "I told you so" because that would mean we finally had a winning season.

I want a QB too but if there isn't a top flight one available at #8 then wait until the 2nd round. This team is more then a lower rated QB available away from winning. We have a ton of holes to fill. And if there reasoning is that we can't wait because of all the other teams who need a QB then they would be thinking the same thing. If some of them jump the gun and Geno Smith and Barkley/Wilson are already drafted by the time our spot comes around does that mean we just go ahead and draft a 2nd tier QB at #8 like Nassib, Jones or Glendon? I guess with many that's what they feel.

Many of these people are probably the same ones who thought that the Fitzpatrick extension was a good deal at the time or that we should've drafted a QB last year in the 1st round over Gilmore or whoever they decided to take. That would've meant we would've been drafting a 28 year old "rookie" in Brandon Weeden with that pick who went 12 spots later and the Browns are still wondering if they need to draft another QB. Either that or we should've drafted Gabbert or Ponder instead of Dareus the year before. The ones who jumped the gun missed out on better players like Pouncey, Watt and Kerrigan.

I want a good QB just as everyone else does but the teams who keep reaching for a QB are the ones who keep drafting busts like the Browns who keep drafting QB's and they still can't find one. You need to find one but you don't draft one just for the sake of drafting one.

[Bert102176]

The BILLS are drafting CorDerrell Patterson at number 8

[Owen DeBoard]

No qb, no play-offs, no Superbowl. Simple as that in today's NFL.
Yes and no with this. Lets use the 08 Patriots as an example. Some would say that Brady is the best QB in the NFL today or ever but why was it that they couldnt win the superbowl in 08 with having one of the most dominant Offenses in the history of the NFL? Why havent they won a superbowl since 04? They havent had a Defence thats been as good as their superbowl years. Im not saying that you dont need a good qb to win a Superbowl but you do need your team to be good in all aspects of the game. Thats why the Bills shouldnt reach at 8 for a QB unless they think he is worthy of that pick. They have to draft the best player availible that fills a need with that pick.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yes and no with this. Lets use the 08 Patriots as an example. Some would say that Brady is the best QB in the NFL today or ever but why was it that they couldnt win the superbowl in 08 with having one of the most dominant Offenses in the history of the NFL? Why havent they won a superbowl since 04? They havent had a Defence thats been as good as their superbowl years. Im not saying that you dont need a good qb to win a Superbowl but you do need your team to be good in all aspects of the game. Thats why the Bills shouldnt reach at 8 for a QB unless they think he is worthy of that pick. They have to draft the best player availible that fills a need with that pick.

You're going to hold up the Patriots as an example? They have won their division every year but one, in which they lost on tiebreakers, they've been to four AFC title games and two superbowls, and come within 90 seconds of a perfect season. A couple bounces go their way and Brady could be sitting on 5 rings and 19-0. They are the best argument for a quarterback.

[X-Era]

Would it be best to not draft a QB high this year and roll with Fitz or Jackson and then get a QB next year.

We could draft a guy like Xavier Rhodes at 8
a big WR in round 2
TE, LBs, later

Draft a guy like Matt Scott or Renfree (Duke) in rounds 5 or 6 and develop them into either a good backup or starter down the road.

Next year in my opinion has more options than this year. Granted I do not see a Luck or RG3 but I see guys I like more than this crop.
No.

I'd like us to be drafting one in the first 3 rounds until we get it right... as many years as it takes. Can't wait anymore.

If we had invested in this position with a legit draftee that player might be ready to start so we can ditch Fitz. Instead we will likely ditch Fitz and have no starter on the roster.

[OpIv37]

Yeah the Cleveland browns have such a great track record of QB evaluation if they dont take a quarterback with there 1st round pick the Bills shouldnt either.

They got desperate and traded up for Quinn. You want to see us make a similar mistake out of desperation?

[Owen DeBoard]

You're going to hold up the Patriots as an example? They have won their division every year but one, in which they lost on tiebreakers, they've been to four AFC title games and two superbowls, and come within 90 seconds of a perfect season. A couple bounces go their way and Brady could be sitting on 5 rings and 19-0. They are the best argument for a quarterback.
So your gonna use bonces going their way in an arguement. How about the Ravens kicker missing a field goal that costed them to beat the Patriots a couple of years ago in the championship game? Then the first superbowl they shouldnt have even made it because of the famous tuck rule. Or how about the spy gate scandall? Its pretty obvious they get alot of bounces to go their way. Yes they have won AFC titles and divisions but they havent won the Superbowl since they let their defence go to garbage over the years. You have to field a team in all aspects of the game not just Offence.

[OpIv37]

No.

I'd like us to be drafting one in the first 3 rounds until we get it right... as many years as it takes. Can't wait anymore.

If we had invested in this position with a legit draftee that player might be ready to start so we can ditch Fitz. Instead we will likely ditch Fitz and have no starter on the roster.

I keep seeing similar things posted on here. Did you not see this:


If we drafted the next available QB every year with our 1st round pick, this theory would get us..

Brandon Weeden
Jake Locker
Tim Tebow/Jimmy Clausen


Then we'd be left without

Stephon Gilmore
Marcell Dareus
CJ Spiller


SIGN ME UP!!

A major reason this team sucks so bad is because of bad drafting, and some of you are advocating a strategy that all but guarantees the bad drafting will continue.

[psubills62]

I want to say we should wait, but at some point you've got to say that enough is enough and just take a QB you like and try to develop him. Whether it's in the first round, second, or third, get a freaking QB. At least try. Taking one in the 2nd or 3rd this year might be best, because the Bills aren't sinking too much money in them, so it won't make the Bills hesitate to take one next year in the first round if they're in that position.

[BillsFever21]

No.

I'd like us to be drafting one in the first 3 rounds until we get it right... as many years as it takes. Can't wait anymore.

If we had invested in this position with a legit draftee that player might be ready to start so we can ditch Fitz. Instead we will likely ditch Fitz and have no starter on the roster.

That's why the Bills have sucked for 13 years is because of stuff like that. A good front office wouldn't have jumped the gun and gave Fitzpatrick a huge extension after a good month of the season in the first place and would've waited to see how the season played out. They could have had him for half of the price and then brought in somebody else to compete with him. A horrible team like the Bills only make the problem worse by living in denial about it when it blows up in their face and pass on a QB with potential in the 3rd round for a WR to stretch the field which are a dime a dozen.

What's even worse is in a QB heavy draft when there were still a couple highly rated QB's on the board the Bills pass on both of them for yet another CB. This was when they didn't know what they had in Fitzpatrick who had never really done much and wasn't under contract either. A normal team would've snatched one of them guys up whether it was Kapernick or Dalton. Both of them guys would've been mid 1st round picks in this years draft class.

At least you came around like many do when it's finally over with. Just 4 months ago you thought Gailey was still the answer as our HC and was fine with giving Fitzpatrick another shot based on his play. He just needed more weapons and another year in the system.

[X-Era]

I keep seeing similar things posted on here. Did you not see this:



A major reason this team sucks so bad is because of bad drafting, and some of you are advocating a strategy that all but guarantees the bad drafting will continue.
One per draft in one of the first 3 rounds.

[X-Era]

That's why the Bills have sucked for 13 years is because of stuff like that. A good front office wouldn't have jumped the gun and gave Fitzpatrick a huge extension after a good month of the season in the first place and would've waited to see how the season played out. They could have had him for half of the price and then brought in somebody else to compete with him. A horrible team like the Bills only make the problem worse by living in denial about it when it blows up in their face and pass on a QB with potential in the 3rd round for a WR to stretch the field which are a dime a dozen.

What's even worse is in a QB heavy draft when there were still a couple highly rated QB's on the board the Bills pass on both of them for yet another CB. This was when they didn't know what they had in Fitzpatrick who had never really done much and wasn't under contract either. A normal team would've snatched one of them guys up whether it was Kapernick or Dalton. Both of them guys would've been mid 1st round picks in this years draft class.

At least you came around like many do when it's finally over with. Just 4 months ago you thought Gailey was still the answer as our HC and was fine with giving Fitzpatrick another shot based on his play. He just needed more weapons and another year in the system.
My pro-Gailey argument was based on the theory that we wouldn't sign someone way better but it could get way worse or stay the same. I'm glad we got Marrone but he's far from a proven improvement. Marrone has to succeed before we really can criticize the theory I held.

I really don't remember saying Fitz was all we needed. I've been, at best, fine with him assuming the defense was top 10 and we were productive on offense. I was fine if he didn't cost us games. But he did. And I have been here for the past 4 years clamoring for a QB from and early round in the draft.

Hell, I've been wanting a post-Kelly franchise QB since Kelly left.

[Ginger Vitis]

They got desperate and traded up for Quinn. You want to see us make a similar mistake out of desperation?

Drafting Geno Smith is not a act of desperation. And if all 7 teams in front of Buffalo pass on Geno I am taking him with the 8th overall pick in a heartbeat..

[OpIv37]

Drafting Geno Smith is not a act of desperation.

Keep telling yourself that. In three years we will be having this same discussion about which QB to draft.

[YardRat]

You're going to hold up the Patriots as an example? They have won their division every year but one, in which they lost on tiebreakers, they've been to four AFC title games and two superbowls, and come within 90 seconds of a perfect season. A couple bounces go their way and Brady could be sitting on 5 rings and 19-0. They are the best argument for a quarterback.

Except for the piddling little facts, like when they were winning Super Bowls they did it with defense and cheating, and when they are not they are being eliminated by good defenses.

A good QB will get you through the regular season and into the playoffs usually, but defenses still win championships. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning (especially) are the best argument for that.

[X-Era]

Keep telling yourself that. In three years we will be having this same discussion about which QB to draft.
It's looking like we may not even get a shot at Geno... Raiders, Browns, maybe Cards

[OpIv37]

It's looking like we may not even get a shot at Geno... Raiders, Browns, maybe Cards

That may be for the best.

Then again, maybe not. This team tends to hit the panic button when the guy they want falls off the board. That's how we ended up with JP Losman, Donte Whitner and John McCargo.

I hope we don't do something stupid like take Nassib at 8 if Geno is gone, although I wouldn't mind getting Nassib in the 2nd or the late 1st if we can trade back in.

[Ginger Vitis]

I hope we don't do something stupid like take Nassib at 8 if Geno is gone, although I wouldn't mind getting Nassib in the 2nd or the late 1st if we can trade back in.

So drafting Geno SMith 8th overall is a act of desperation but trading back into the 1st round to draft Ryan Nassib isnt a act of desperation..Gotcha

[OpIv37]

So drafting Geno SMith 8th overall is a act of desperation but trading back into the 1st round to draft Ryan Nassib isnt a act of desperation..Gotcha

No it isn't because it doesn't come at the opportunity cost of using the #8 pick to fill one of the team's many other glaring holes. And we have the #40 pick- its not going to cost that much to move up 10 slots or so.

Some of you suffer the delusion that this team is a QB away from being competitive. We need a lot more than that, which is why using the #8 on one of the mediocre QB's in this draft is a bad idea.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No it isn't because it doesn't come at the opportunity cost of using the #8 pick to fill one of the team's many other glaring holes. And we have the #40 pick- its not going to cost that much to move up 10 slots or so.

Some of you suffer the delusion that this team is a QB away from being competitive. We need a lot more than that, which is why using the #8 on one of the mediocre QB's in this draft is a bad idea.

I think you and I have the same frame of mind with this predicament we're in.

It's all about risk/reward ratio to me. With any draft pick, there is an obvious risk. The higher the draft pick, the more important it is to minimize your risk while maximizing your reward. Drafting a QB is always more risky than drafting any other position, so you better make sure you feel that QB has enough 'reward' to justify his risk. I don't feel that any of these QBs have enough of potential to warrant the risk we would be taking at 8. If there are players at other positions with a lower risk/reward ratio, I think the Bills have to take that player.

Obviously everybody has different ways to value a players 'reward' potential, and that is where these arguments come into play. One thing that is killing me is that some people are basically saying that you should draft a QB just to draft a QB, or take a QB in the 1st round every year, or things to that effect. I don't care if we take a QB in the draft every year, as long as we don't waste a 1st round pick on a QB that isn't worth it. If we can't get value with our 1st round picks, we're going to be picking in the top 10 every year, regardless of which position on the field we select.

[OpIv37]

I think you and I have the same frame of mind with this predicament we're in.

It's all about risk/reward ratio to me. With any draft pick, there is an obvious risk. The higher the draft pick, the more important it is to minimize your risk while maximizing your reward. Drafting a QB is always more risky than drafting any other position, so you better make sure you feel that QB has enough 'reward' to justify his risk. I don't feel that any of these QBs have enough of potential to warrant the risk we would be taking at 8. If there are players at other positions with a lower risk/reward ratio, I think the Bills have to take that player.

Obviously everybody has different ways to value a players 'reward' potential, and that is where these arguments come into play. One thing that is killing me is that some people are basically saying that you should draft a QB just to draft a QB, or take a QB in the 1st round every year, or things to that effect. I don't care if we take a QB in the draft every year, as long as we don't waste a 1st round pick on a QB that isn't worth it. If we can't get value with our 1st round picks, we're going to be picking in the top 10 every year, regardless of which position on the field we select.

Excellent post- I couldn't agree more.

What gets me is that people can still advocate those draft strategies after seeing what bad first round draft choices get you. We whiffed on literally every single one for 10 years and it led to ten years of misery.

[Bill Cody]

Excellent post- I couldn't agree more.

What gets me is that people can still advocate those draft strategies after seeing what bad first round draft choices get you. We whiffed on literally every single one for 10 years and it led to ten years of misery.

Let's not get carried away here. I'm not in favor of reaching but reaching is not the same as whiffing. Sure we've whiffed a TON and it's screwed us, no debate on that although it isn't fair to hang stuff at Nix's feet that happened before he got here. But taking the right QB a round early, although not ideal is not a catastophe as long as he can play. I want a QB. Nix says there are good QB's in this draft. If we come out with one it's a success regardless of where he's picked IMHO. Picking a QB is BY FAR the hardest job any GM has.

[OpIv37]

Let's not get carried away here. I'm not in favor of reaching but reaching is not the same as whiffing. Sure we've whiffed a TON and it's screwed us, no debate on that although it isn't fair to hang stuff at Nix's feet that happened before he got here. But taking the right QB a round early, although not ideal is not a catastophe as long as he can play. I want a QB. Nix says there are good QB's in this draft. If we come out with one it's a success regardless of where he's picked IMHO. Picking a QB is BY FAR the hardest job any GM has.
Your last line is exactly the problem.

Picking a QB is already difficult. Now we are talking about reaching for one, possibly as much as a full round. That's adding risk to picking a position that's already risky by nature.

If we take a QB at 8 and he turns out to be good, no one is going to remember that it was considered a "reach" on draft day. But there is a reason why most of these QB's don't have first round grades. Could they turn out to be good? Sure, but they are missing something that first round QB's usually have so it makes the pick more risky.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Let's not get carried away here. I'm not in favor of reaching but reaching is not the same as whiffing. Sure we've whiffed a TON and it's screwed us, no debate on that although it isn't fair to hang stuff at Nix's feet that happened before he got here. But taking the right QB a round early, although not ideal is not a catastophe as long as he can play.

That's a very broad statement. In terms of the QBs that started this year, which do you consider to be the worst one 'who can play?' I'm curious to see your cutoff.


Picking a QB is BY FAR the hardest job any GM has.

No one should disagree with you on that.

[Bill Cody]

Your last line is exactly the problem.

Picking a QB is already difficult. Now we are talking about reaching for one, possibly as much as a full round. That's adding risk to picking a position that's already risky by nature.

If we take a QB at 8 and he turns out to be good, no one is going to remember that it was considered a "reach" on draft day. But there is a reason why most of these QB's don't have first round grades. Could they turn out to be good? Sure, but they are missing something that first round QB's usually have so it makes the pick more risky.

The more QB's are chosen ahead of us the riskier our pick gets, no?

[OpIv37]

The more QB's are chosen ahead of us the riskier our pick gets, no?

You could argue that both ways. Obviously, having more to choose from increases the possibility that there will be a good one in the bunch.

On the other hand, if we are targeting a guy with a 2nd round grade and he's still there in the 2nd round, that's less risky than picking the same guy in the first round because at least we got to use our first round pick to fill another hole.

[Captain Obvious]

If OpiV was the GM of the Bills he wouldnt draft a QB unless he had the No.1 overall pick and a Andrew Luck type talent was there any other scenario and hes just too afraid to draft a QB

[Bill Cody]

That's a very broad statement. In terms of the QBs that started this year, which do you consider to be the worst one 'who can play?' I'm curious to see your cutoff.


Well I'm looking for a QB that can bring us a championship. That doesn't require he be the top QB in the league but it pretty much requires he be top 10. Getting there can take 3-5 years though so that's a pretty hard question. Jury is still out on a number of recent draft picks that are playing such as Dalton, Locker, Freeman, Newton, and Tannehill although the later 3 have done some things to show they're going to be around a while and maybe excel. I think we can count Andrew Luck, RG3, and Kaepernick as guys that can definetely play. Russell Wilson is getting there very quickly if he's not already there. Christian Ponder is unlikely to be a championship QB nor is Brandon Weedon.

[OpIv37]

If OpiV was the GM of the Bills he wouldnt draft a QB unless he had the No.1 overall pick and a Andrew Luck type talent was there any other scenario and hes just too afraid to draft a QB

Not wanting to use the #8 overall pick in a year with a weak QB class for a team that has a ton of holes is not the same as being afraid to draft a QB.

[Bill Cody]

You could argue that both ways. Obviously, having more to choose from increases the possibility that there will be a good one in the bunch.

On the other hand, if we are targeting a guy with a 2nd round grade and he's still there in the 2nd round, that's less risky than picking the same guy in the first round because at least we got to use our first round pick to fill another hole.

ok but let's not confuse our issues here. You can try to maximize the value of every pick (your approach) or you can say "we have to have QB X because we think he has the best chance to make it" and he might not be there in the 2nd round. If your priority is getting the "right" QB it's hard to argue taking him early isn't less risky. I'm actually with you on the "no busts" approach but even that doesn't mean never reaching, especially when it comes to the most important position on the field. My feeling is if Smith is there at 8 you take him, otherwise try to move down to the end of the 1st round. Getting another player at 8 is far less important than getting the "right" QB.

[better days]

No it isn't because it doesn't come at the opportunity cost of using the #8 pick to fill one of the team's many other glaring holes. And we have the #40 pick- its not going to cost that much to move up 10 slots or so.

Some of you suffer the delusion that this team is a QB away from being competitive. We need a lot more than that, which is why using the #8 on one of the mediocre QB's in this draft is a bad idea.

Some of you suffer the delusion that this team is going anywhere without a GOOD QB even if they add a player of need at another position with the #8 pick.

[Bill Cody]

Not wanting to use the #8 overall pick in a year with a weak QB class for a team that has a ton of holes is not the same as being afraid to draft a QB.

Weak doesn't mean barren. It means you have to scout the guys that are there to death and pick the right guy. I'm willing to manuever some to get decent value but in the end this draft has to be about filling that Grand Canyon under center first and foremost.

[OpIv37]

Weak doesn't mean barren. It means you have to scout the guys that are there to death and pick the right guy. I'm willing to manuever some to get decent value but in the end this draft has to be about filling that Grand Canyon under center first and foremost.
Well we can't blame Nix on the past draft failures at QB because he wasn't here, but the fact that he gave Fitz a huge contract makes me question his ability to evaluate QB's.

[Bill Cody]

That's a very broad statement. In terms of the QBs that started this year, which do you consider to be the worst one 'who can play?' I'm curious to see your cutoff.




in terms of this year's draft I'm no expert but my eyeballs say:

Geno Smith- a bit of a project but worth the risk at 8
Matt Barkley- most polished QB in the draft, accurate, good footwork, moderately mobile, questionable leader, average arm, below average size. Would take a chance on him in the 2nd but will probably go in the 1st.
Mike Glennon- rocket arm but cement shoes, would take a chance in the 3rd no earlier
Ryan Nassib- smart, decent mobility, questionable arm and accuracy, seems like an upgraded Fitz. No earlier than 43.
EJ Manuel- a lot of upside, raw would take a year or two on the bench to develop probably. Should be there at 43 and I would strongly consider him.
Tyler Wilson- tough as nails, born leader, ok arm. If it wasn't for the small hands thing I'd be on board at 8. As it is no earlier than end of the 1st.
Tyler Bray- rocket arm, great size, not very mobile, questionable attitude and maturity. No earlier than round 3.
Sean Renfree- sleeper late pick. I'd be all over him in the 6th or 7th, might have gone a bit earlier but just had surgery. May not even be drafted but could end up the steal of the draft 5 years from now. Our Tom Brady?

[Bill Cody]

Well we can't blame Nix on the past draft failures at QB because he wasn't here, but the fact that he gave Fitz a huge contract makes me question his ability to evaluate QB's.

I don't think that's fair. They do require us to field a team even if parts of it blow, right? If you had Nix in a room with a couple drinks he'd probably tell you they were under no illsuions that Fitz was likely to be the long term answer. In fact it's almost certain that Cam Newton would be a Bill if he wasn't drafted by Carolina. He may have been wrong about kaepernick and Wilson but a lot of other GM's would like a mulligan on those 2 guys. As for the contract, it was a fair contract. Fitz has not made big money and we will likely cut him before the big money kicks in.

[Bill Cody]

You could argue that both ways. Obviously, having more to choose from increases the possibility that there will be a good one in the bunch.

On the other hand, if we are targeting a guy with a 2nd round grade and he's still there in the 2nd round, that's less risky than picking the same guy in the first round because at least we got to use our first round pick to fill another hole.

tell you what though if we took Night Train's advice I think I'd be totally with you on the draft as far as taking a non QB at 8. Sign Drew Stanton who in my mind is like Tyler Wilson but without the little girl hands. Let him battle TJax for the starter's job in camp, loser gets cut. Draft EJ Manuel in the 2nd and Sean Renfree in the 7th. Keep Renfree on the 45 man roster but don't dress him in the games. Let Manuel be the understudy as backup for the 1st year and go from there.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Some of you suffer the delusion that this team is going anywhere without a GOOD QB even if they add a player of need at another position with the #8 pick.

Some of you suffer a delusion that if you draft a QB with the 8th overall pick that he will automatically perform like he is worth the 8th overall pick.

[Joe Fo Sho]

in terms of this year's draft I'm no expert but my eyeballs say:

Geno Smith- a bit of a project but worth the risk at 8
Matt Barkley- most polished QB in the draft, accurate, good footwork, moderately mobile, questionable leader, average arm, below average size. Would take a chance on him in the 2nd but will probably go in the 1st.
Mike Glennon- rocket arm but cement shoes, would take a chance in the 3rd no earlier
Ryan Nassib- smart, decent mobility, questionable arm and accuracy, seems like an upgraded Fitz. No earlier than 43.
EJ Manuel- a lot of upside, raw would take a year or two on the bench to develop probably. Should be there at 43 and I would strongly consider him.
Tyler Wilson- tough as nails, born leader, ok arm. If it wasn't for the small hands thing I'd be on board at 8. As it is no earlier than end of the 1st.
Tyler Bray- rocket arm, great size, not very mobile, questionable attitude and maturity. No earlier than round 3.
Sean Renfree- sleeper late pick. I'd be all over him in the 6th or 7th, might have gone a bit earlier but just had surgery. May not even be drafted but could end up the steal of the draft 5 years from now. Our Tom Brady?

That's a reasonable list.

[Bill Cody]

Some of you suffer a delusion that if you draft a QB with the 8th overall pick that he will automatically perform like he is worth the 8th overall pick.

Very true. It adds extra pressure to the player too. Donte Whitner wasn't a bad player but was he a top 10 player in the draft kind of guy? Hell no. If we had taken him in the 2nd round he wouldn't have gotten 1% of the crap he got on this board and it wasn't his fault we were too stupid to take Ngata.

[better days]

Very true. It adds extra pressure to the player too. Donte Whitner wasn't a bad player but was he a top 10 player in the draft kind of guy? Hell no. If we had taken him in the 2nd round he wouldn't have gotten 1% of the crap he got on this board and it wasn't his fault we were too stupid to take Ngata.


If the Bills don't draft a QB at #8 & instead draft a WR or LB.. etc, that player will get 1000 times more crap than Whitner did if the QB passed on becomes a franchise QB no matter how well that player plays.

[Joe Fo Sho]

If the Bills don't draft a QB at #8 & instead draft a WR or LB.. etc, that player will get 1000 times more crap than Whitner did if the QB passed on becomes a franchise QB no matter how well that player plays.

That works both ways. What if the QB sucks and the LB or WR we wanted turns out to be a probowler?

[better days]

That works both ways. What if the QB sucks and the LB or WR we wanted turns out to be a probowler?

Well, if the Bills draft a QB & he turns out to be a bust, I'm sure some on the board will say we could have had this guy or that guy, but I think most people understand how much the Bills need a QB & the need to gamble a little to find one.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well, if the Bills draft a QB & he turns out to be a bust, I'm sure some on the board will say we could have had this guy or that guy, but I think most people understand how much the Bills need a QB & the need to gamble a little to find one.

Most(all?) are willing to gamble a little, some don't want to gamble a lot.

[Bill Cody]

If the Bills don't draft a QB at #8 & instead draft a WR or LB.. etc, that player will get 1000 times more crap than Whitner did if the QB passed on becomes a franchise QB no matter how well that player plays.

That all depends when guys end of getting picked doesn't it? Bills fans feel bad we didn't draft Russell Wilson in the 3rd round not that we "passed" on him in the 1st. People are mad we took Aaron Wiliams instead of Colin Kaepernick not that we took Dareus instead of him.

[BillsFever21]

The more QB's are chosen ahead of us the riskier our pick gets, no?

A ton of more QB's were chosen ahead of Dalton and Kapernick in 2011 and Russell Wilson in 2012. Once get get past the blue chip prospects many of the remaining QB's are close to equal in pre-draft rating. It all depends on the individual team and what they are looking for in a QB or any player after the top tier guys are off the board.

Just like back in 2009 Stafford was clearly the #1 pick and Sanchez the 2nd best QB. After that there wasn't another QB taken till the middle of the 2nd round in Pat White who was horrible. This will be one of them types of drafts. There may be 3 QB's taken by the 2nd round and there isn't a huge difference in rating between them. A lot of it depends on what the teams are looking for.

If everyone followed these guys draft strategies then Brady Quinn would've been a Top 10 pick along with Brandon Weeden last year. If it's a weak class then it's a weaker class. Wait until the 2nd round and see how it shakes out. Some people act like the 1st round is the only selection you get in the draft.

[better days]

That all depends when guys end of getting picked doesn't it? Bills fans feel bad we didn't draft Russell Wilson in the 3rd round not that we "passed" on him in the 1st. People are mad we took Aaron Wiliams instead of Colin Kaepernick not that we took Dareus instead of him.

Well, who would you rather have NOW? Dareus or Kaepernick? Gilmore or Wilson?

I think Kaepernick or Wilson would help the Bills win more games than Dareus or Gilmore myself. You can still win games with an average to below average DL or CB if you have a GOOD QB. No matter how good one DL or CB is they won't help win many games with a below average QB.

[better days]

A ton of more QB's were chosen ahead of Dalton and Kapernick in 2011 and Russell Wilson in 2012. Once get get past the blue chip prospects many of the remaining QB's are close to equal in pre-draft rating. It all depends on the individual team and what they are looking for in a QB or any player after the top tier guys are off the board.

Just like back in 2009 Stafford was clearly the #1 pick and Sanchez the 2nd best QB. After that there wasn't another QB taken till the middle of the 2nd round in Pat White who was horrible. This will be one of them types of drafts. There may be 3 QB's taken by the 2nd round and there isn't a huge difference in rating between them. A lot of it depends on what the teams are looking for.

If everyone followed these guys draft strategies then Brady Quinn would've been a Top 10 pick along with Brandon Weeden last year. If it's a weak class then it's a weaker class. Wait until the 2nd round and see how it shakes out. Some people act like the 1st round is the only selection you get in the draft.

Some people act like the Bills are the only team that NEEDS a QB & that QBs are not overdrafted.

[BillsFever21]

Some people act like the Bills are the only team that NEEDS a QB & that QBs are not overdrafted.

The Chiefs don't need a QB now after trading for Alex Smith. The Jaguars just drafted Gabbert in the Top 10 two years ago after they OVERDRAFTED him. If they feel he's that much of a bust they possibly could try again in the 2nd round. The Eagles could be in the market for one if Kelly isn't interested in Foles. The Browns just took Weeden in the 1st round last year.

That leaves the Cardinals as one team that will most likely draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round. If they skip the first round then I could live with the #8 pick being used on the QB of their choice if they feel he will be okay. If not then the gap between the rest of them isn't much.

Outside of them guys there have been 8 1st round QB chosen in the past two drafts and two in the second round. That's 10 teams that hypothetically won't be looking for a QB in the 1st round unless the Texans are looking for somebody to groom or take over for Shaub. With their QB friendly system they probably won't be looking in the 1st round especially when their team is close to competing for the SB now. They are going to want a player who can help them now in the 1st round.

This crop of QB's are similar to the 2011 draft where outside of Cam Newton there wasn't that much of a gap for the next several QB's after him had average rankings. There was a deep draft of guys in that range but there wasn't any blue chip studs. Up to this point the guys who reached for the QB in the Top 10 or so have an average QB to show for it and are still looking for a franchise QB.

The teams that made out were the 49ers and Bengals who got the best out of that crop in the 2nd round. Using the QB only theory no matter who is available at #8 would've meant that the Bengals should have taken a QB over AJ Green. I think that worked out pretty good for them.

I understand you want a QB bad and who doesn't. It doesn't mean that you draft one just for the sake of taking one though. If that was the case then every bad team who needed a QB would be spending their early 1st round draft pick on a QB every year.

[better days]

The Chiefs don't need a QB now after trading for Alex Smith. The Jaguars just drafted Gabbert in the Top 10 two years ago after they OVERDRAFTED him. If they feel he's that much of a bust they possibly could try again in the 2nd round. The Eagles could be in the market for one if Kelly isn't interested in Foles. The Browns just took Weeden in the 1st round last year.

That leaves the Cardinals as one team that will most likely draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round. If they skip the first round then I could live with the #8 pick being used on the QB of their choice if they feel he will be okay. If not then the gap between the rest of them isn't much.

Outside of them guys there have been 8 1st round QB chosen in the past two drafts and two in the second round. That's 10 teams that hypothetically won't be looking for a QB in the 1st round unless the Texans are looking for somebody to groom or take over for Shaub. With their QB friendly system they probably won't be looking in the 1st round especially when their team is close to competing for the SB now. They are going to want a player who can help them now in the 1st round.

This crop of QB's are similar to the 2011 draft where outside of Cam Newton there wasn't that much of a gap for the next several QB's after him had average rankings. There was a deep draft of guys in that range but there wasn't any blue chip studs. Up to this point the guys who reached for the QB in the Top 10 or so have an average QB to show for it and are still looking for a franchise QB.

The teams that made out were the 49ers and Bengals who got the best out of that crop in the 2nd round. Using the QB only theory no matter who is available at #8 would've meant that the Bengals should have taken a QB over AJ Green. I think that worked out pretty good for them.

I understand you want a QB bad and who doesn't. It doesn't mean that you draft one just for the sake of taking one though. If that was the case then every bad team who needed a QB would be spending their early 1st round draft pick on a QB every year.


I agree you don't draft a QB high that you don't think has the potential to be good. Nix has targeted 3 QBs that he thinks will be good. If all 3 are gone when the Bills pick at #8, then I don't think Nix does draft a QB, nor do I think he should.

[OpIv37]

Some of you suffer the delusion that this team is going anywhere without a GOOD QB even if they add a player of need at another position with the #8 pick.

lmao.

I'm well aware that we need a QB.

Some of you suffer the delusion that our need for a QB somehow makes one of the QB's in this draft worthy of the #8 pick.

[better days]

lmao.

I'm well aware that we need a QB.

Some of you suffer the delusion that our need for a QB somehow makes one of the QB's in this draft worthy of the #8 pick.

A QB with the potential to be a starting QB in the NFL is worthy of the #8 pick & Nix said he thinks two or three QB's in this class have that potential.

[Bill Cody]

Well, who would you rather have NOW? Dareus or Kaepernick? Gilmore or Wilson?

I think Kaepernick or Wilson would help the Bills win more games than Dareus or Gilmore myself. You can still win games with an average to below average DL or CB if you have a GOOD QB. No matter how good one DL or CB is they won't help win many games with a below average QB.

You and I don't look at this issue the same way. I've got nothing new to add.

[Mr. Miyagi]

No.

First of all, we have NO IDEA where we will be drafting next year. Last year, we picked #10 and missed out on the top three quarterbacks available.
Over the last three seasons, the top rated options when our first pick came up were Jimmy Clausen/Tim Tebow (2010), Blaine Gabbert/Jake Locker/Christian Ponder/Andy Dalton/Colin Kaepernick/Ryan Mallett (2011) and Brandon Weeden/Brock Osweiler/Russell Wilson/Kirk Cousins (2012).

Every year, we hear people screaming "wait until the next draft" because the guys available are flawed. But when the next draft comes along, we are faced with the EXACT same situation... flawed quarterbacks that are risky. Yes, most of the guys we COULD have snatched up would have been bad picks. Looking back, I'm glad we didn't go for Clausen or Tebow or Gabbert. But then again, by taking a chance we could have ended up with Dalton, Kaepernick or Wilson. Even someone like Ponder or Cousins seems to have more upside than sticking with Fitzpatrick for another lost season.

Second, we have NO IDEA what next year's (or the year after's) group of quarterbacks will look like when draft time comes around.
There was a time when Landry Jones was one of the top quarterback prospects in the nation. Do you remember... last year, we heard - wait until next year and maybe we can get Matt Barkley. Now that Barkely may fall in our lap, we don't want him anymore. Give them another season or two in college and we will probably see the amplified shortcomings of guys like Aaron Murray, Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel.

Third... Waiting another year to take a quarterback means that 2013 is already another guaranteed lost season. Our current top players - Spiller, Stevie, KWilliams - are another year older. We've got another group of free agents that need to be retained. Our contract with Mario becomes a little harder to justify.

Finally, this year's group - while not on the level of Luck or RGIII - has plenty of talent. Maybe none of them are worth a Top 10 pick to the "experts", but most feel that 2-3 quarterbacks in this draft are mid-to-low first rounders and another 5-6 are worthy of early-to-mid second round grades. I would be willing to bet that a few of them emerge as solid starters in the NFL, if not better.

Sure, the ideal situation for the Bills is to wait until the second round to get their man. But that means quarterback-needy teams like Kansas City, Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Arizona and Philadelphia will get two draft picks before we take a quarterback. The New York Jets will get one pick, assuming they don't trade up. Word out of Houston is that they will consider a quarterback with their first round pick as well. It's quite possible that 6-7 quarterbacks are gone before the #40 draft selection.

Personally, I don't think the non-QBs that will be available at #8 are good enough to justify taking the risk that we don't get the BEST quarterback on our draft board.
Would you be happier with someone like Cordelle Patterson, along with a quarterback like Zac Dysert or Landry Jones?
Or would you be happier with someone like Geno Smith, along with a wide receiver like Justin Hunter or Robert Woods?
This is a very well thought out analysis. I totally agree.

I'd be happy with taking a QB at #8. Be it Geno, Barkley, Wilson, or even Nassib. Glennon would be a bit harder to stomach.

[trapezeus]

if i trusted the bills management at all, i'd say draft a QB this year and tell him how it is. "it's a new CBA on rookies, a number 8 failing and failing miserably doesn't cost much. If you look like you aren't workable like we've seen with JP, Trent, we will draft a QB again. And we'll cut you and it won't kill us. If you come in and light the world on fire, we'll find more pieces to make us a winner or keep us a winner."

but you know management. they'll draft JP or sign Fitz and they'll watch rodgers go by, russell wilson go by, because we paid for our guy. Regardless of poor performance our qb's put out, they won't try again until they squeak out the largest dimes out of the contract.

since that is how the bills operate, i don't think they are going from 6-10 to playoffs based on how many cuts they've made and the fact they won't get to FA and the draft to replace them all. Therefore, we will most likely be picking in the top 10 this time next year too. and if there are 2-3 day 1 starters available, i'd rather keep trying to fix the d and let tjax or fitz manage a game.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, who would you rather have NOW? Dareus or Kaepernick? Gilmore or Wilson?

I think Kaepernick or Wilson would help the Bills win more games than Dareus or Gilmore myself. You can still win games with an average to below average DL or CB if you have a GOOD QB. No matter how good one DL or CB is they won't help win many games with a below average QB.

fitz won 6 games with a d that was one of the worst in the 50+ years of bills existence!!

[fluteflakes]

Well, who would you rather have NOW? Dareus or Kaepernick? Gilmore or Wilson?

I think Kaepernick or Wilson would help the Bills win more games than Dareus or Gilmore myself. You can still win games with an average to below average DL or CB if you have a GOOD QB. No matter how good one DL or CB is they won't help win many games with a below average QB.

First round pick, Second Round pick.

First round pick, Third round pick.

Not comparable.

Saying, would you rather have Aaron Williams or Kaepernick, or T.J. Graham or Russell Wilson? Would be far more comperable, considering that's who we drafted in each of those rounds.

[Mr. Miyagi]

A good QB is a great deordorant for every other weakness.

The Colts had years of terrible defense and questionable running game. They also had Manning.
Same thing with the Pats and Brady.
Same thing with the Packers and Favre/Rodgers.
Same thing with the Saints and Brees.
Same thing with the Rams and Kurt Warner.


None of us is saying for sure any of these QBs this year will be good let alone compared to the HOFers above, but it is to illustrate my point and that it all starts with the QB. If we don't have one, everything else doesn't matter. It's not a coincidence that we haven't had a good QB since Kelly and we've sucked through all these years. The only stretch we had a gutsy decent QB was Flutie and we went to the playoffs that year. (F RJ).

[better days]

First round pick, Second Round pick.

First round pick, Third round pick.

Not comparable.

Saying, would you rather have Aaron Williams or Kaepernick, or T.J. Graham or Russell Wilson? Would be far more comperable, considering that's who we drafted in each of those rounds.

I am saying I would have been happy if the Bills drafted Kaepernick or Wilson in the first rnd instead of who they did draft in the first rnd. Yes the Bills got value with Dareus & Gilmore, but I think a starting QB is more valuable.

[fluteflakes]

But your looking at those draft in hindsight. You can't look and go "I'd have been happier if we drafted them in the first round" because they weren't first round level prospects. As is evident by the fact that they didn't go in the first round. If you're going to make that case you have to look back and draft them where they were originally drafted. I mean if you use that argument then the first pick in the 2000 draft is Tom Brady, instead of him going 199th.

Both those years if we took a first round QB it would have been either Gabbert or Weedon. Because those were the two first round QB's left in those respective drafts.

Besides, we had Chan then, there is no telling that he wouldn't have ruined Kaep or Wilson. Who both went to the perfect spots and the perfect coaches to develop them. In Harbaugh and Beville.

But, looking back on those drafts, hell yes I would have preferred Kaep or Wilson over Graham or Williams. When we drafted Graham I was screaming at my T.V. that we should have nabbed Wilson. The only, and I mean only negative on him was his height. And he proved that beyond a doubt wrong this year.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I wanted Wilson too. Especailly because he was a Wisconsin Badger. :(

[better days]

But your looking at those draft in hindsight. You can't look and go "I'd have been happier if we drafted them in the first round" because they weren't first round level prospects. As is evident by the fact that they didn't go in the first round. If you're going to make that case you have to look back and draft them where they were originally drafted. I mean if you use that argument then the first pick in the 2000 draft is Tom Brady, instead of him going 199th.

Both those years if we took a first round QB it would have been either Gabbert or Weedon. Because those were the two first round QB's left in those respective drafts.

Besides, we had Chan then, there is no telling that he wouldn't have ruined Kaep or Wilson. Who both went to the perfect spots and the perfect coaches to develop them. In Harbaugh and Beville.

But, looking back on those drafts, hell yes I would have preferred Kaep or Wilson over Graham or Williams. When we drafted Graham I was screaming at my T.V. that we should have nabbed Wilson. The only, and I mean only negative on him was his height. And he proved that beyond a doubt wrong this year.


I was just trying to make a point that a starting QB is worth the first rnd pick. With all the people on this board saying don't draft a QB before the 2nd rnd. My opinion is a starting QB is worth the #8 pick in the draft even if Kiper & McShay & the rest of the "experts" dont agree.

[fluteflakes]

Hey, I'v always been the advocate of "if you think this player can be "the guy" for your team, you take him, period". I'm just saying other than Geno and Wilson I don't see anybody else in this draft where you could honestly say that.

But, here's the upside, one or both of those guys WILL fall to the Bills. So no matter who we pick I'll be good with it. I understand the point you're trying to make, it's just that using a third round pick that became a starter isn't a good argument for taking a QB in the first.

[better days]

Hey, I'v always been the advocate of "if you think this player can be "the guy" for your team, you take him, period". I'm just saying other than Geno and Wilson I don't see anybody else in this draft where you could honestly say that.

But, here's the upside, one or both of those guys WILL fall to the Bills. So no matter who we pick I'll be good with it. I understand the point you're trying to make, it's just that using a third round pick that became a starter isn't a good argument for taking a QB in the first.

I see your point about Wilson being a 3rd rnd pick. But, the draft was deep at QB last year, this year not so much.

[fluteflakes]

Well I would argue the class this year is deep, it's just not as overtly talented. There aren't any plug and play day one starters, but there are guys who can play their rookie years after sitting for a few months. Ala Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson. There are also the big projects in the Bray's, Glennon's, Dysert's, Barkley's, Nassib's etc etc.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I was just trying to make a point that a starting QB is worth the first rnd pick. With all the people on this board saying don't draft a QB before the 2nd rnd. My opinion is a starting QB is worth the #8 pick in the draft even if Kiper & McShay & the rest of the "experts" dont agree.

There were 32 'starting' QBs in the league this year. You would take all 32 of them with the number 8 pick? 31 I guess if you don't count Fitz.

[better days]

There were 32 'starting' QBs in the league this year. You would take all 32 of them with the number 8 pick? 31 I guess if you don't count Fitz.

I would draft one of the 2 or 3 QBs Nix thinks has the ability to be a GOOD starting QB with the #8 pick. If they are all off the board when the Bills pick, I would wait until the 2nd rnd. You may get a starter in the 2nd rnd, but like Fitz or Trent or Losman, probably not a GOOD one.

[YardRat]

Buffalo passed on using their first pick in the draft on Jim Kelly in favor of a TE. Just sayin...

[Joe Fo Sho]

Buffalo passed on using their first pick in the draft on Jim Kelly in favor of a TE. Just sayin...

We also passed on Jake Locker to draft Dareus, but I am also just saying.

- - - Updated - - -


I would draft one of the 2 or 3 QBs Nix thinks has the ability to be a GOOD starting QB with the #8 pick. If they are all off the board when the Bills pick, I would wait until the 2nd rnd. You may get a starter in the 2nd rnd, but like Fitz or Trent or Losman, probably not a GOOD one.

I wish I really knew how Nix felt about the QBs in this draft.

[fluteflakes]

We also passed on Jake Locker to draft Dareus, but I am also just saying.


I think Jake Locker will be a good QB in this league. But so far he's appearing to be a bust, more than the savior for the Titans. And if we'd drafted him he'd have been thrown to the wolves waaaaay too early because Chan would be trying to keep his job.

[TigerJ]

I think Buffalo needs to draft a QB this year that they believe has at least a chance of becoming a solid starter. Anyone who wants to convince me I should have a different opinion is going to have to provide detailed scouting reports of next year's likely crop of QB prospects laid side by side with the scouting reports of this year's crop of prospects. Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel will be gone in the top five, and I'm hoping at least that Buffalo won't be that bad. It's the next group of 7 or eight I'd need to see.

[Mouldsie]

I think Buffalo needs to draft a QB this year that they believe has at least a chance of becoming a solid starter. Anyone who wants to convince me I should have a different opinion is going to have to provide detailed scouting reports of next year's likely crop of QB prospects laid side by side with the scouting reports of this year's crop of prospects. Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel will be gone in the top five, and I'm hoping at least that Buffalo won't be that bad. It's the next group of 7 or eight I'd need to see.


I think Tajh Boyd will prob grade out higher than anyone in this draft as well.

[better days]

I think Jake Locker will be a good QB in this league. But so far he's appearing to be a bust, more than the savior for the Titans. And if we'd drafted him he'd have been thrown to the wolves waaaaay too early because Chan would be trying to keep his job.

Well, we know how Chan hated to play Rookies. If the Bills had drafted Locker, I think Fitz would have still started a year & maybe Fitz would have played better knowing he had competition for his job.

[TigerJ]

I think Tajh Boyd will prob grade out higher than anyone in this draft as well.

Could be, but those aren't odds I'd want to play.

[YardRat]

We also passed on Jake Locker to draft Dareus, but I am also just saying.

And wisely so. Too bad we didn't take Kelly at 12, and then Darrel Green at 14 instead of wasting a pick on Hunter. That would've been sweet.

[SABURZFAN]

And wisely so. Too bad we didn't take Kelly at 12, and then Darrel Green at 14 instead of wasting a pick on Hunter. That would've been sweet.


they should have drafted Marino instead of Kelly.

[The Jokeman]

they should have drafted Marino instead of Kelly.

Valid point also one would wonder had we taken Leonard Smith instead of Tony Hunter how much better would we been had we kept Roland Mitchell (the CB we traded to the Cardinals for Smith)?