SJ Trying To Recruit FA's [Archive] - BillsZone.com

03-02-2013, 11:46 AM

I just don't think we will go the FA route for a WR. The money will be big and we can get the type of player Nix wants from the draft... Patterson, Hunter, Woods.
I think they'll make WR a priority in free agency and the draft. If they're not bringing back Jones or Nelson they need to add a couple players and I don't really see Graham being one of the top 3 guys. I don't expect a top tier FA, but I expect them to sign someone that could at least be a decent #2. Then still use an early pick in the draft. It sounds like ultimately, they would like to be able to use Stevie in the slot more.

I just don't think they would let both Jones and Nelson go if they didn't have a player or two in free agency that they were targeting as upgrades. If they head into the draft with only Stevie and TJ Graham as legit options at WR, they're not really leaving themselves much flexibility and could still miss out on the guy they want.

HAMMER

03-02-2013, 12:01 PM

No to Bowe, too many drops, too expensive.

X-Era

03-02-2013, 02:27 PM

I think they'll make WR a priority in free agency and the draft. If they're not bringing back Jones or Nelson they need to add a couple players and I don't really see Graham being one of the top 3 guys. I don't expect a top tier FA, but I expect them to sign someone that could at least be a decent #2. Then still use an early pick in the draft. It sounds like ultimately, they would like to be able to use Stevie in the slot more.

I just don't think they would let both Jones and Nelson go if they didn't have a player or two in free agency that they were targeting as upgrades. If they head into the draft with only Stevie and TJ Graham as legit options at WR, they're not really leaving themselves much flexibility and could still miss out on the guy they want.
I just wonder who it could be. If they go after Bowe or Jennings they will pretty much need to use most of their cap room to shop for FA's and it may be there only move. If they don't were talking about players who won't be much of an upgrade. It's an expensive position to shop for in FA.

Yet the draft features guys that are big and athletic and will be pretty cheap.

fluteflakes

03-02-2013, 03:14 PM

I really, really, REALLY want Markus Wheaton in a Buffalo Bills jersey. But I don't think we sign one of the "name" wideouts. Too much cap eaten away at that could be used to fill depth. I think we finally go into this draft and pick up one or two guys, and maybe bring in a Barden or someone like that who can be our redzone threat. Because god knows we need a redzone guy.

Night Train

03-02-2013, 04:57 PM

I just don't think we will go the FA route for a WR. The money will be big and we can get the type of player Nix wants from the draft... Patterson, Hunter, Woods.
Part of me agrees but WR's are notorious for doing little year 1. I'd still like another hands Vet like Hartline.

JoeMama

03-03-2013, 02:00 PM

Oh come on.....Buddy is still better than Marv.

Not in the win/loss column where it counts.

I like Nix's personality. Good guy. Definitely an awful GM though.

He hired an even worse coach than Levy. He refused to draft a QB of the future for 3 whole years. The Bills have the worst record with him at the helm.

Anyone who says Nix isn't the worst GM we've had in 13 years is just being a homer. This man defines incompetent.

YardRat

03-03-2013, 03:52 PM

Not in the win/loss column where it counts.

I like Nix's personality. Good guy. Definitely an awful GM though.

He hired an even worse coach than Levy. He refused to draft a QB of the future for 3 whole years. The Bills have the worst record with him at the helm.

Anyone who says Nix isn't the worst GM we've had in 13 years is just being a homer. This man defines incompetent.

Meh, I dunno. Gailey was a bad hire, but I think Nix's personnel acquisitions have been positive.

Just IMO, obviously, but I'm comfortable with the way Buddy has handled the first round picks, at least. I liked the Gilmore and Dareus picks, and although I wasn't thrilled with Spiller it may turn out to be the best one he made. Say what you want about the rest of the draft and some of the puzzling moves/picks he made, but at least we broke the cycle of Maybin over Orakpo, McKelvin over Clady/Flacco, Lynch over Revis, Whitner and McCargo over Ngata and Mangold, etc, ad nauseum.

The roster is better, even if the coaching has been worse.

Night Train

03-03-2013, 04:08 PM

Meh, I dunno. Gailey was a bad hire, but I think Nix's personnel acquisitions have been positive.

Just IMO, obviously, but I'm comfortable with the way Buddy has handled the first round picks, at least. I liked the Gilmore and Dareus picks, and although I wasn't thrilled with Spiller it may turn out to be the best one he made. Say what you want about the rest of the draft and some of the puzzling moves/picks he made, but at least we broke the cycle of Maybin over Orakpo, McKelvin over Clady/Flacco, Lynch over Revis, Whitner and McCargo over Ngata and Mangold, etc, ad nauseum.

The roster is better, even if the coaching has been worse.

But Buddy caved when
1. Gailey threw all his support behind Fitz
2. Gailey refused to consider anyone else, even when things went bad after that foolish Fitz contract. See the healthy scratch of TJax every game.

Now he's trying too hard to find a QB within a very average QB class to save his tarnished legacy and could even make this worse, with so many other holes and actual quality showing in some of those holes (OL to replace Levitre,CB,LB,TE,WR and more)

YardRat

03-03-2013, 04:54 PM

But Buddy caved when
1. Gailey threw all his support behind Fitz
2. Gailey refused to consider anyone else, even when things went bad after that foolish Fitz contract. See the healthy scratch of TJax every game.

Now he's trying too hard to find a QB within a very average QB class to save his tarnished legacy and could even make this worse, with so many other holes and actual quality showing in some of those holes (OL to replace Levitre,CB,LB,TE,WR and more)

Granted on 1 and 2, but A)The GM has to trust the coaches opinion to a point, and B)That's Gailey's call, not Nix's. Lord knows this fan base hates meddling owners and GM's right?

Polian must have trusted Levy's opinion back in the day...In all of the drafts BP ran for the Bills, he drafted exactly 2 QB's...McClure in the 12th round in '86, and Rodgers in the 12th round in '92. Good thing for us that Reich actually turned out to be a better player than he showed in any of his pre-season action or the first three-and-a-half quarters of the first game he was pressed into duty, and Levy turned out to be right about not looking for an upgrade.

The Jokeman

03-03-2013, 07:41 PM

Stevie has replaced Nick Barnett as the Bills recruiter.

I thought Merriman was the recruiter on Twitter.

fluteflakes

03-03-2013, 08:58 PM

I thought Merriman was the recruiter on Twitter.

He and Barnett both were doing so heavily, IIRC.

Hell come to think of it I think Stevie was recruiting a bit last year as well.

better days

03-04-2013, 07:50 AM

I thought Merriman was the recruiter on Twitter.

Barnett recruited a number of players to sign with the Bills. He was the number one recruiter, on NFL network a lot talking about what a great place Buffalo was & how happy he was to be a Bill.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 08:10 AM

better days

03-04-2013, 08:18 AM

SJ: "Buffalo is awesome, man! You can take as many stupid penalties as you want and drop as many game-winning TD's as you want, and no one cares because the rest of the team is so crappy that they still need you. Then, as soon as you do one good thing, everyone forgets about your 50 ****-ups and treats you like a hero. And everyone expects you to lose so there's no pressure! It's the best!"

Well, there is a new sheriff in town. I think Marrone will bring the pressure.

Mahdi

03-04-2013, 08:52 AM

SJ: "Buffalo is awesome, man! You can take as many stupid penalties as you want and drop as many game-winning TD's as you want, and no one cares because the rest of the team is so crappy that they still need you. Then, as soon as you do one good thing, everyone forgets about your 50 ****-ups and treats you like a hero. And everyone expects you to lose so there's no pressure! It's the best!"

Yeah 1 bad drop and a couple of immature penalties and that makes him bad? The production Stevie has managed with Fitz is on its own a special feat. Plus he has shown that no one can cover him 1v1.

We should be happy we have a receiver like Stevie.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 08:57 AM

More than one drop and more than a couple penalties. But hey let's just ignore it when our favorite players do the va that prevent the team from winning...

Some of you forget that it's about the team and not the individual players.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 09:03 AM

Some of you forget that it's about the team and not the individual players.

the irony. Stevie is trying to help recruit players for the team. Maybe he should do nothing but whine to make you happy.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 09:20 AM

the irony. Stevie is trying to help recruit players for the team. Maybe he should do nothing but whine to make you happy.

Helping the team in March is nice. Not hurting the team with his selfishness and stupidity on Sundays in the fall would be much better.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. People forget about the drops and stupid penalties and distracting immature tweets that hurt the team cuz the guy makes a couple of phone calls in March.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 09:26 AM

Helping the team in March is nice. Not hurting the team with his selfishness and stupidity on Sundays in the fall would be much better.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. People forget about the drops and stupid penalties and distracting immature tweets that hurt the team cuz the guy makes a couple of phone calls in March.

people also forget how he's caught for franchise records inspite of what he's had to work with at qb. Some people forget also that he blocks for his team mates. Ask Eric Berry. There's always pro's and cons to a player but some people just love to concentrate on the negatives I guess.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 09:33 AM

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 09:46 AM

Some people forget that when the team is struggling as bad as they are, the negatives outweigh the positives. Stevie put up some numbers in a 6-10 season. Wow. Impressive. Call me when the numbers translate to wins.

There were also 3 games he could have won for us: the two big drops and the NE game where we were winning before his stupid celebration penalty. True stars come through in those situations. Stevie did the opposite.

But hey, who cares about wins as long as the guy calls free agents in March, right? you're using what he did 2 seasons ago to make your argument? If he didn't fixed his stupid celebration last year, you'd have an argument.

Yup, by your argument its must have been Larry Fitzgeralds fault the cardinals finished with a 5-11 record. What a selfish player.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 09:48 AM

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 10:00 AM

He fixed his celebrations but he still took a delay of game for kicking the ball after a play and had some key drops, not to mention some games where he was invisible. His head isn't in the game and never has been.
drops happen all the time. Brandon MArshall led the league in drops but he had Cuttler and Stevie had Fitz. Is it ALL his fault that he was invisible or did Fitz have something to do with that. How about teams knowing he was Fitz's no.1 target? Having Jones as the no.2 wr has nothing to do with it?

Not even Andre Reed could achieve what Stevie did even with Lofton and Jim Kelly. Not even Moulds could achieve that with Kelly/Bledsoe and Lee Evans opposite him yet Stevie's head was never in it just because he had made dumb plays? Thats just stupid. The FACTS prove your opinion WRONG. Arguing with facts again.

I am not saying he's elite top wr but to simply put most of the blame of the bills record on him is just plain stupid.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 10:07 AM

Huh? That's quite a selective interpretation of "facts."

There is video evidence of Stevie making dumb mistakes that cost the team wins. Indisputable evidence that he doesn't have his head in the game. The numbers don't make those things go away. The numbers come from physical ability- imagine what he could do with some concentration and effort (remember, Stevie himself said he didn't go all out in training just a couple of weeks ago).

And as far as Reed and Moulds, well, they may not have Stevie's numbers but a) they also didnt make Stevie's stupid mistakes and b) their smaller numbers led to more wins.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 10:16 AM

And as far as Reed and Moulds, well, they may not have Stevie's numbers checkmate. Don't forget the qb's and supporting cast they've had yet a guy who "never had his head in it" surpassed them.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 10:29 AM

checkmate. Don't forget the qb's and supporting cast they've had yet a guy who "never had his head in it" surpassed them.

Once again, physically talented players can put up numbers on natural ability alone, which has nothing to do with having their heads in the game. There are numerous documented moments over a three year span of Stevie not having his head in the game.

Just imagine if he did. Just imagine what kind numbers he could put up and how many more wins the team could have.

But hey, who cares as long as he beats Reed in a couple of stats, right? It's not just good-it's good enough.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 10:40 AM

Once again, physically talented players can put up numbers on natural ability alone, you don't make franchise records when you NEVER have your head in the game regardless of talent.

If your head isn't in it , you don't run the right routes,don't have a connection with your QB , you don't block for your team mates and you don't get to own the best corner in Reevis . You can't tell me that SJ is more talented or has more natural ability than Reevis. Just because he makes occasional bonehead penalties (2 seasons ago ) doesn't make him Ryan Leaf.

Just imagine if he did. Just imagine what kind numbers he could put up and how many more wins the team could have.

Still blaming wins and losses on him(1 player) inspite of Fitz and the D giving up franchise record yards is just plain stupid. Like you said it's a team sport unless that only applies when it goes against your opinion.

TedMock

03-04-2013, 10:42 AM

Stevie's most major drops were not this past season. He had 15 in 2010. 5 in 2011. 11 in 2012. The most glaring of his career was the Pittsburgh drop a couple years ago. Then the stupid penalties in 2011 were bad. The 11 drops this past year were out of 90 catchable balls. That puts him at at 12.2 rate. Otherwise, somewhere in the middle. The rate is more important than the total, obviously. I do not have exactly where he finished as far as ranking, rate-wise, but he was not in the top 10. No drops are good and he's done stupid things in the past, but he has matured a little (or at least smartened up somewhat due to fear of benching). Hopefully that trend continues.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 10:45 AM

Mahdi

03-04-2013, 10:47 AM

Once again, physically talented players can put up numbers on natural ability alone, which has nothing to do with having their heads in the game. There are numerous documented moments over a three year span of Stevie not having his head in the game.

Just imagine if he did. Just imagine what kind numbers he could put up and how many more wins the team could have.

But hey, who cares as long as he beats Reed in a couple of stats, right? It's not just good-it's good enough.

Your arguments make no sense man. He made some mistakes a couple years back but since then he has been a good pro and has done his best to win ball games. On the way he has done extremely well with his individual numbers considering who plays opposite him and who threw him the ball.

You don't just beat the best CBs in the game regularly unless you're working hard and giving your best. The kid plays with passion and effort.

Don't forget how he chased that CB down from behind and forced the fumble after Fitz's bonehead INT. Most WRs would just pout, he didn't.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 11:36 AM

you don't make franchise records when you NEVER have your head in the game regardless of talent.

If your head isn't in it , you don't run the right routes,don't have a connection with your QB , you don't block for your team mates and you don't get to own the best corner in Reevis . You can't tell me that SJ is more talented or has more natural ability than Reevis. Just because he makes occasional bonehead penalties (2 seasons ago ) doesn't make him Ryan Leaf.

Still blaming wins and losses on him(1 player) inspite of Fitz and the D giving up franchise record yards is just plain stupid. Like you said it's a team sport unless that only applies when it goes against your opinion.

Oh ok.... So, Stevie owning Revis two years ago counts, but Stevie taking boneheaded penalties two years ago doesn't? Guess what? Stevie took a boneheaded penalty this year and got bested by Revis this year. Facts 1, justa 0.

As far as the losses, yes, the team could have done things differently. But, the way it happened resulted in Stevie being in a position to win the games. He failed, multiple times. True stars seize those opportunities. Stevie didn't.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 11:40 AM

Your arguments make no sense man. He made some mistakes a couple years back but since then he has been a good pro and has done his best to win ball games. On the way he has done extremely well with his individual numbers considering who plays opposite him and who threw him the ball.

You don't just beat the best CBs in the game regularly unless you're working hard and giving your best. The kid plays with passion and effort.

Don't forget how he chased that CB down from behind and forced the fumble after Fitz's bonehead INT. Most WRs would just pout, he didn't.
Once again, Steve besting Revis two years ago counts, but not his dumb penalties from two years ago?

And some of you forget his drops and delay of game penalty this season. Granted, they weren't as high profile as his past mistakes, but they were a continuation of the same problems he's had in the past.

But who cares about that if he has a good line on the stat sheet, right?

Oh, and who cares that he admits to not working out as hard as he should because one time he got the ball back after an INT, right?

That's exactly what I'm talking about. He does one or two good things and everybody forgets about the nonsense.

better days

03-04-2013, 11:45 AM

IlluminatusUIUC

03-04-2013, 11:45 AM

Just imagine if he did. Just imagine what kind numbers he could put up and how many more wins the team could have.

I have to agree with JASF here, putting the W-L on Steve is just silly. Johnson's best performance last season came in the Seattle game, 8 catches for a 115 yds and a TD against Richard Sherman - probably the best cover corner in football last season.

And yet we lost that game by 5 touchdowns.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 11:53 AM

Oh ok.... So, Stevie owning Revis two years ago counts, but Stevie taking boneheaded penalties two years ago doesn't?.It's counts because YOU said his head NEVER HAS BEEN in the game. That means from the day he was drafted no?

This just proves you wrong as far as talent goes. Where was Revis drafted in comparison to Stevie?
You don't get from being drafted in the 7th to breaking franchise records when your head was never in the game.

Guess what? Stevie took a boneheaded penalty this year and got bested by Revis this year. Facts 1, justa 0..One? Who's the one who's using 1 exception to prove a rule now? You're arguing with yourself now. OP 1 , OP 0.

So what if he got bested by Revis. I never said he'd always own Revis but you don't own the best cb at any given time when YOUR HEAD IN NEVER IN THE GAME.

As far as the losses, yes, the team could have done things differently. But, the way it happened resulted in Stevie being in a position to win the games. He failed, multiple times. True stars seize those opportunities. Stevie didn't. Oh so now, you're using the word team? Make up your mind. Either it was all his fault like you imply or the team as a whole was responsible for the record.

Mahdi

03-04-2013, 11:54 AM

Once again, Steve besting Revis two years ago counts, but not his dumb penalties from two years ago?

And some of you forget his drops and delay of game penalty this season. Granted, they weren't as high profile as his past mistakes, but they were a continuation of the same problems he's had in the past.

But who cares about that if he has a good line on the stat sheet, right?

Oh, and who cares that he admits to not working out as hard as he should because one time he got the ball back after an INT, right?

That's exactly what I'm talking about. He does one or two good things and everybody forgets about the nonsense.

Everyone drops balls. Check the drop list, some of the best WRs in the game are on it.

Second, who cares about a delay of game penalty where he kicked the ball. He was pissed, and that tells me he plays with passion. I can remember many times on this board where we were complaining that we don't have players who are passionate or emotional, well, sometimes that passion will lead to a bad penalty. Happens all the time in the NFL and to the best players.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 11:56 AM

I have to agree with JASF here, putting the W-L on Steve is just silly. Johnson's best performance last season came in the Seattle game, 8 catches for a 115 yds and a TD against Richard Sherman - probably the best cover corner in football last season.

And yet we lost that game by 5 touchdowns.I'm not even a Stevie Fan. I never even said he's an elite wr . OP just loves to exaggerate things so he can argue his dislike of SJ

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 12:14 PM

It's counts because YOU said his head NEVER HAS BEEN in the game. That means from the day he was drafted no?

This just proves you wrong as far as talent goes. Where was Revis drafted in comparison to Stevie?
You don't get from being drafted in the 7th to breaking franchise records when your head was never in the game.

One? Who's the one who's using 1 exception to prove a rule now? You're arguing with yourself now. OP 1 , OP 0.

So what if he got bested by Revis. I never said he'd always own Revis but you don't own the best cb at any given time when YOUR HEAD IN NEVER IN THE GAME.

Oh so now, you're using the word team? Make up your mind. Either it was all his fault like you imply or the team as a whole was responsible for the record.

Lmao. So this whole thing is about semantics?

You take exception to the use of the term "never?" Fine. The reality is there are too many times that Stevie hurts the team by not having his head in the game. I don't know why you overlook that because he beat Reed in a couple of stat categories.

As far as the team, well, it wasn't about the team. It was about the mistakes Stevie makes on his own. You brought up the team to make excuses for Stevie's individual performance. What the team did or didn't do does not get Stevie off the hook for failing to come through when he had the opportunity to win the game.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 12:17 PM

Everyone drops balls. Check the drop list, some of the best WRs in the game are on it.

Second, who cares about a delay of game penalty where he kicked the ball. He was pissed, and that tells me he plays with passion. I can remember many times on this board where we were complaining that we don't have players who are passionate or emotional, well, sometimes that passion will lead to a bad penalty. Happens all the time in the NFL and to the best players.

Are you ****ing kidding me? You are defending a stupid penalty because it shows passion? That's just absurd. There are plenty of ways to play with emotion without hurting your team.

This is the type of nonsense I am talking about. People like a player, so they defend him even when he hurts the team. It's about the team and getting wins, not about the guy you like being able to express his emotions however he wants.

trapezeus

03-04-2013, 12:29 PM

Helping the team in March is nice. Not hurting the team with his selfishness and stupidity on Sundays in the fall would be much better.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. People forget about the drops and stupid penalties and distracting immature tweets that hurt the team cuz the guy makes a couple of phone calls in March.

guy plays every game. this season, he did not take any stupid penalties. he got to 1000 yards without the benefit of good fitz games.

i think the guy is getting it. at this point, it is the QB's fault. i thought the bills WR corp was good and could have used one piece to make it excellent for a mid level qb. but now they are starting over. if he gets to 800 yards with a new qb in a new system, we'll know he is a very good WR.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 12:36 PM

guy plays every game. this season, he did not take any stupid penalties. he got to 1000 yards without the benefit of good fitz games.

i think the guy is getting it. at this point, it is the QB's fault. i thought the bills WR corp was good and could have used one piece to make it excellent for a mid level qb. but now they are starting over. if he gets to 800 yards with a new qb in a new system, we'll know he is a very good WR.
Well, you started 0 for 2. There were several games this year where he was invisible and he took a delay of game for kickin the ball after the play.

No doubt the QB holds him back, but he makes enough mistakes on his own that its not all on the QB.

- - - Updated - - -

guy plays every game. this season, he did not take any stupid penalties. he got to 1000 yards without the benefit of good fitz games.

i think the guy is getting it. at this point, it is the QB's fault. i thought the bills WR corp was good and could have used one piece to make it excellent for a mid level qb. but now they are starting over. if he gets to 800 yards with a new qb in a new system, we'll know he is a very good WR.
Well, you started 0 for 2. There were several games this year where he was invisible and he took a delay of game for kickin the ball after the play.

No doubt the QB holds him back, but he makes enough mistakes on his own that its not all on the QB.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 12:41 PM

Lmao. So this whole thing is about semantics?

You take exception to the use of the term "never?" Fine. The reality is there are too many times that Stevie hurts the team by not having his head in the game. I don't know why you overlook that because he beat Reed in a couple of stat categories.

As far as the team, well, it wasn't about the team. It was about the mistakes Stevie makes on his own. You brought up the team to make excuses for Stevie's individual performance. What the team did or didn't do does not get Stevie off the hook for failing to come through when he had the opportunity to win the game.

I have taken his mistakes into account which is why I don't consider him elite but I won't go as far as saying that he's the reason either for our record like you do. You also like to use what he did a couple of years ago to prove a point even though he did it maybe once last year even though you are using one incident to prove the norm. As far as you're concerned, using an exception to prove the rule is a no-no unless it goes against your opinion.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 12:43 PM

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 12:43 PM

I think you are forgetting how much those "exceptions" hurt the team.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 12:43 PM

I think you are forgetting how much those "exceptions" hurt the team.

in 2011. What year is it?

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 12:44 PM

No, if SJ's head is not in the game he wouldn't have bothered to make a tackle after a Fitz int.

So he had his head in the game that one time. It doesn't excuse all the times that he didnt.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 12:45 PM

in 2011. What year is it?

And 2010. And 2012. And there haven't been any games yet in 2013, but Stevie did manage to say he doesn't work out as much as he should.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 12:58 PM

So he had his head in the game that one time. It doesn't excuse all the times that he didnt.
:lmao:
a 7th rd pick with 3 1000 yard seasons. Looks like Andre Reed, Moulds etc. heads were never in the game. Slackers

03-04-2013, 01:20 PM

I just wonder who it could be. If they go after Bowe or Jennings they will pretty much need to use most of their cap room to shop for FA's and it may be there only move. If they don't were talking about players who won't be much of an upgrade. It's an expensive position to shop for in FA.

Yet the draft features guys that are big and athletic and will be pretty cheap.
Maybe Massaquoi?

stuckincincy

03-04-2013, 01:28 PM

Maybe Massaquoi?

The CLE wr? He's flashed big, from time to time, but seems to disappear for stretches. Certainly worth a look if available, IMO.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 01:37 PM

:lmao:
a 7th rd pick with 3 1000 yard seasons. Looks like Andre Reed, Moulds etc. heads were never in the game. Slackers

Reed and Moulds never dropped game winning TD's, let alone twice in a little over a year. Reed and Moulds never took stupid celebration penalties. Reed and Moulds didn't become invisible for weeks at a time. And if Reed or Moulds had a bad game, they took responsibility for it instead of publicly blaming God or claiming that a drop wasn't actually a drop.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 01:41 PM

Reed and Moulds never dropped game winning TD's, let alone twice in a little over a year. Reed and Moulds never took stupid celebration penalties. Reed and Moulds didn't become invisible for weeks at a time. And if Reed or Moulds had a bad game, they took responsibility for it instead of publicly blaming God or claiming that a drop wasn't actually a drop.

Don't care.No one other than a 7th rd. pick has been able to even have back to back 1000 yards season. This player "who head has never been in the game" has 3 consecutive with less supporting cast.

Facts KO's OP in the 1st rd.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 01:43 PM

Reed and Moulds never dropped game winning TD's, let alone twice in a little over a year. Reed and Moulds never took stupid celebration penalties. Reed and Moulds didn't become invisible for weeks at a time. And if Reed or Moulds had a bad game, they took responsibility for it instead of publicly blaming God or claiming that a drop wasn't actually a drop.

Correction. Reed cost us a playoffs appearance when he caused a penalty by touching the ref in his last game as a bill. Checkmate. Don't use one exception to prove the rule as your response because you went against it yourself.

stuckincincy

03-04-2013, 01:45 PM

Reed and Moulds never dropped game winning TD's, let alone twice in a little over a year. Reed and Moulds never took stupid celebration penalties. Reed and Moulds didn't become invisible for weeks at a time. And if Reed or Moulds had a bad game, they took responsibility for it instead of publicly blaming God or claiming that a drop wasn't actually a drop.

Didn't Moulds have a big drop early in some playoff game? Miami comes to mind...???

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 01:47 PM

Don't care.No one other than a 7th rd. pick has been able to even have back to back 1000 yards season. This player "who head has never been in the game" has 3 consecutive with less supporting cast.

Facts KO's OP in the 1st rd.
Um, no.

If you make stupid mistakes, you don't have your head in the game no matter how many yards you get.

But hey, go ahead and defend players who hurt the team. Just don't be surprised when we lose.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 01:49 PM

Correction. Reed cost us a playoffs appearance when he caused a penalty by touching the ref in his last game as a bill. Checkmate. Don't use one exception to prove the rule as your response because you went against it yourself.

Yeah well using your logic, it doesn't matter cuz he had a lot of yards. Who cares about wins and not hurting your team if you get yards, right?

Mahdi

03-04-2013, 01:51 PM

Are you ****ing kidding me? You are defending a stupid penalty because it shows passion? That's just absurd. There are plenty of ways to play with emotion without hurting your team.

This is the type of nonsense I am talking about. People like a player, so they defend him even when he hurts the team. It's about the team and getting wins, not about the guy you like being able to express his emotions however he wants.

He only had that one bad penalty and AGAIN, he's not the only player in the league to pick up a penalty for that sort of thing. You're way too critical of Stevie considering his desire and production.

He's a maturing player and last year was among our top 5 players. You know he could have easily bolted last year in FA and been given a bigger contract than the one he took in Buffalo which was peanuts for a receiver of his quality. He signed a week before FA which is pretty special. He could have easily accepted the Tag and been FA this year and received 10 mil per.

He signed a 5 year 36 mil deal. This year a guy like Bowe or Wallace will get 9-10 per. Stevie took a huge hometown discount out of loyalty.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 02:02 PM

I don't think he could have bolted for more money because other teams see the mistakes and immaturity that you don't.

And it was more than one penalty- it was one last year and several the year before. Plus the drops. Plus the tweets. Plus saying he doesn't work out as hard as he should.

That's what you consider "maturing?" And even if he is maturing, the team is paying a high price for him to mature on the job. As far as other players taking similar penalties, that's irrelevant. The "well he did it too!" argument isn't valid outside of a kindergarten.

justasportsfan

03-04-2013, 02:09 PM

Yeah well using your logic, it doesn't matter cuz he had a lot of yards. Who cares about wins and not hurting your team if you get yards, right?

using your logic Reed is a selfish player who cost the team by making dumb mistakes and can't even catch for 2 consecutive 1000 yard season. Going by that , Stevie's an Angel.

Besides, don't care how you use it but I just proved you WRONG again by using facts vs. your opinion that Reed didn't cause dumb penalties.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 03:06 PM

using your logic Reed is a selfish player who cost the team by making dumb mistakes and can't even catch for 2 consecutive 1000 yard season. Going by that , Stevie's an Angel.

Besides, don't care how you use it but I just proved you WRONG again by using facts vs. your opinion that Reed didn't cause dumb penalties.
I love it how you compare something Reed did once while emotionally charged in his last game ever with something Stevie had done consistently throughout his career.

You keep saying that Stevie getting yards proves he has his head in the game, but that's simply not true. The penalties, the drops, the slumps where he disappears for a game or two- these things aren't the exception. It's how Stevie's been his entire career. You're pointing to a stat sheet rather than watching what happens on the field.

Want to know another reason the Bills don't win? Our best players aren't good enough. Stevie shouldn't be the best receiver on the team. Unfortunately, Nix is a moron and we have no one better, so when his contract came up, we had to pay him as the best WR on the team and now we can't afford the #1 that we should have. The Bills will never win as long as guys like Stevie are counted on to lead the team.

trapezeus

03-04-2013, 03:36 PM

Well, you started 0 for 2. There were several games this year where he was invisible and he took a delay of game for kickin the ball after the play.

No doubt the QB holds him back, but he makes enough mistakes on his own that its not all on the QB.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, you started 0 for 2. There were several games this year where he was invisible and he took a delay of game for kickin the ball after the play.

No doubt the QB holds him back, but he makes enough mistakes on his own that its not all on the QB.

One of the things i like about him is he plays hurt. and he still performs. I don't recall him having any outlier games were he went for like 150Yards this year. yet he still got to 1000 yards. In my mind SJ has done all a guy can do with poor play at the QB. He doesn't demand the ball more. He is playing every game. He runs good routes every game.

At the end of the season he lost his temper. i forget the specifics of the kicking of the ball, but i remember i was pissed and frustrated in that game too for some reason. He's the type of play maker that when everything is going well, he could really stand out. but compared to what you are listing him against two years ago where he danced every touchdown, he got sat even when he was told it would happen, he's toned it down a lot.

you're approach is essentially how russ would do things. "he isn't a star in his own right. Let's get rid of him and sign a new WR." Is he jerry rice? no. but he is a key component to trying to win. I think keeping donald jones would have been ideal. He caught everything thrown to him and most of the crap that wasn't.

03-04-2013, 04:32 PM

The CLE wr? He's flashed big, from time to time, but seems to disappear for stretches. Certainly worth a look if available, IMO.
Yeah, I know he doesn't have the production, but I think that's more an issue of being a Cleveland Brown than a lack of talent. He's still young with good size and potential that could be an upgrade over Donald Jones. Maybe Nix isn't interested in him specifically, but I'm just thinking that type of guy that could come cheap, but still have the potential to blossom into a decent starter or at least compete with a rookie and provide some depth. I don't expect one of the bigger name FA WR's to come here, but someone that could at least be serviceable.

OpIv37

03-04-2013, 05:15 PM

One of the things i like about him is he plays hurt. and he still performs. I don't recall him having any outlier games were he went for like 150Yards this year. yet he still got to 1000 yards. In my mind SJ has done all a guy can do with poor play at the QB. He doesn't demand the ball more. He is playing every game. He runs good routes every game.

At the end of the season he lost his temper. i forget the specifics of the kicking of the ball, but i remember i was pissed and frustrated in that game too for some reason. He's the type of play maker that when everything is going well, he could really stand out. but compared to what you are listing him against two years ago where he danced every touchdown, he got sat even when he was told it would happen, he's toned it down a lot.

you're approach is essentially how russ would do things. "he isn't a star in his own right. Let's get rid of him and sign a new WR." Is he jerry rice? no. but he is a key component to trying to win. I think keeping donald jones would have been ideal. He caught everything thrown to him and most of the crap that wasn't.
I don't think he's a key component to trying to win. He's just as likely to cost you a game as he is to win one for you, which is fine for a #2 or 3 but you need to be able to count on your #1 and I just don't have confidence in him toncomenthrough when it counts the most, because, well, he's had several opportunities and failed every time. And his contract prevents us from going out and getting a true #1 unless we want to tie up a huge portion of the cap in one position. Right now we are stuck with him, but that's Nix's fault. I just don't see how this team will ever win relying on guess wo are, at best, unpredictable.

And as far as being frustrated, yeah, we all get frustrated. But there is an expectation of how to act when we are frustrated, especially when other people are counting on you.

BillsFever21

03-04-2013, 05:42 PM

Oh come on.....Buddy is still better than Marv.

I have to agree. As bad as Buddy Nix has been it isn't even close to the few years that Marv was here. Between him and then Brandon taking over as GM it really set this team back even further if that was even possible.

The Jokeman

03-04-2013, 10:04 PM

The CLE wr? He's flashed big, from time to time, but seems to disappear for stretches. Certainly worth a look if available, IMO.

He's on my list of guys the Bills might be looking at this offseason that said I have questions about him but then again he's never had a great QB throwing it to him in Cleveland but even if the Bills kept Fitzpatrick I still say he's better anything the Browns have had there in quite some time.

justasportsfan

03-05-2013, 06:50 AM

I love it how you compare something Reed did once while emotionally charged in his last game ever with something Stevie had done consistently throughout his career. Don't care when he did it. Just telling you you are wrong and he DID it. Don't forget the entire team also partied the eve of the SB. Selfish !

Y
ou keep saying that Stevie getting yards proves he has his head in the game, but that's simply not true. The penalties, the drops, the slumps where he disappears for a game or two- these things aren't the exception. It's how Stevie's been his entire career. You're pointing to a stat sheet rather than watching what happens on the field. I've already admitted he's made dumb penalties, doesn't mean that his responsible for our record alone like you keep implying!

Want to know another reason the Bills don't win? Our best players aren't good enough. Stevie shouldn't be the best receiver on the team. Unfortunately, Nix is a moron and we have no one better, so when his contract came up, we had to pay him as the best WR on the team and now we can't afford the #1 that we should have. The Bills will never win as long as guys like Stevie are counted on to lead the team.

Oh so now you're telling me that our best playerS aren't good enough? That's what I've been telling you all this time! It's not all his fault. It's a team effort!

OpIv37

03-05-2013, 06:58 AM

I never said it was all his fault. But he bears his share of responsibility.

justasportsfan

03-05-2013, 07:22 AM

I never said it was all his fault. But he bears his share of responsibility.

why do you think posters post this?

I have to agree with JASF here, putting the W-L on Steve is just silly. Johnson's best performance last season came in the Seattle game, 8 catches for a 115 yds and a TD against Richard Sherman - probably the best cover corner in football last season.

And yet we lost that game by 5 touchdowns.

You've implied it's mostly on his head.

Night Train

03-06-2013, 11:44 AM

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/03/add-rams-wr-brandon-gibson-to-stevie-johnsons-recruiting-list.html

Talking to 2 more WR's.

venis2k1

03-06-2013, 11:56 AM

I dont know how anybody could turn down a sales pitch like "'Man, dog, come on.'"

OpIv37

03-06-2013, 11:57 AM

why do you think posters post this?

You've implied it's mostly on his head.

I've implied?

No.

I said something that is true but unpopular: our best WR, and arguably one of the best on the team, continues to hurt the team with stupid mistakes and can't be counted on to come through in the clutch.

But people don't want to hear that- I don't necessarily blame them. I wish it wasn't true. But who wants the truth? People would much rather read what they want: "here goes bitter old Op *****ing about Stevie and trying to blame our best WR for all the losses." It's much more pleasant than the reality.

better days

03-06-2013, 03:06 PM

I've implied?

No.

I said something that is true but unpopular: our best WR, and arguably one of the best on the team, continues to hurt the team with stupid mistakes and can't be counted on to come through in the clutch.

But people don't want to hear that- I don't necessarily blame them. I wish it wasn't true. But who wants the truth? People would much rather read what they want: "here goes bitter old Op *****ing about Stevie and trying to blame our best WR for all the losses." It's much more pleasant than the reality.

Here is the reality, even if Stevie cost us games as you maintain, what would you like to do? Cut him? You are *****ing just to *****, that is the reality unless you have a constructive answer on how to stop Stevie from costing us games short of cutting him.

OpIv37

03-06-2013, 03:15 PM

Here is the reality, even if Stevie cost us games as you maintain, what would you like to do? Cut him? You are *****ing just to *****, that is the reality unless you have a constructive answer on how to stop Stevie from costing us games short of cutting him.

Um, how is *****ing about a player who hurts the team "*****ing just to *****?"

The reality is that Nix ****ed up so we are stuck. We had no other options at WR so we HAD to give Stevie a big contract. Sure, we could cut him, but then we'd have to eat a huge portion of his signing bonus and we'd be stuck trying to find two receivers this off-season. Or we could sign another #1 or at least try to get a 1a/1b situation, but then we are stuck with a ****-ton of cap space tied up in WR and it will limit our ability to fill the plethora of other holes. So, the least bad option is trying to put a square peg in a round hole by using Stevie as a #1 while trying to find a #2 in the draft or maybe FA.

That's the unfortunate reality we are faced with due to Nix's incompetence. Go ahead and try to pass it off as "Op *****ing just to *****," but reality will bite you in the ass on Sunday afternoons come September, as it always does.

Mr. Pink

03-06-2013, 03:53 PM

The CLE wr? He's flashed big, from time to time, but seems to disappear for stretches. Certainly worth a look if available, IMO.

:rofl:

MoMass is garbage. Flat out. Injury prone meaningless bum.

He's not even worth a look to a CFL team.

ZAZusmc03

03-06-2013, 10:15 PM

I understand people's frustration with OpI, but what I don't understand is how all of you can completely miss what he is trying to say?

better days

03-06-2013, 10:57 PM

Um, how is *****ing about a player who hurts the team "*****ing just to *****?"

The reality is that Nix ****ed up so we are stuck. We had no other options at WR so we HAD to give Stevie a big contract. Sure, we could cut him, but then we'd have to eat a huge portion of his signing bonus and we'd be stuck trying to find two receivers this off-season. Or we could sign another #1 or at least try to get a 1a/1b situation, but then we are stuck with a ****-ton of cap space tied up in WR and it will limit our ability to fill the plethora of other holes. So, the least bad option is trying to put a square peg in a round hole by using Stevie as a #1 while trying to find a #2 in the draft or maybe FA.

That's the unfortunate reality we are faced with due to Nix's incompetence. Go ahead and try to pass it off as "Op *****ing just to *****," but reality will bite you in the ass on Sunday afternoons come September, as it always does.

If Stevie sucks as you say, how do you explain his playing so well against Revis when the entire NFL thinks Revis is the absolute best CB? NO WR has played any better than Stevie has against him.

OpIv37

03-06-2013, 11:34 PM

If Stevie sucks as you say, how do you explain his playing so well against Revis when the entire NFL thinks Revis is the absolute best CB? NO WR has played any better than Stevie has against him.

Once again, reading what you want to read. I never said Stevie sucks. I said he hurts the team by not keeping his head in the game.

And for the record, Revis owned Stevie the last time they played. One CB's opinion prior to that game is not fact. Of course Revis is going to say that when Stevie had more success against him than other players. Saying he got beaten by the best is the only way to save face.

IlluminatusUIUC

03-07-2013, 06:20 AM

I understand people's frustration with OpI, but what I don't understand is how all of you can completely miss what he is trying to say?

I don't think anyone is missing what he's saying, it's just a ridiculous thing to say. We're not supposed to praise Johnson for his successes because he dropped a game winning pass against Pittsburgh nearly three years ago? Oh no he took a 5 yard penalty this season GET THIS BUM OFF MY TEAM.

justasportsfan

03-07-2013, 06:53 AM

I understand people's frustration with OpI, but what I don't understand is how all of you can completely miss what he is trying to say?

Nope, I understand what he's saying. The problem is, he harps on the dumb penalties (from 2 years ago) and then downplays the records he's made that not even Reed or MOulds could achieve especially if you consider Fitz vs. Kelly, Bledsoe. Then he goes on to imply fans don't hold him acountable or that we love him despite his mistakes even though I claim he isn't elite. If Stevie had Kelly/ Bledsoe and a Lofton opposite him instead of Donald Jones, we wouldn't even be talking about this. Then again, it's OPi.

better days

03-07-2013, 06:55 AM

Once again, reading what you want to read. I never said Stevie sucks. I said he hurts the team by not keeping his head in the game.

And for the record, Revis owned Stevie the last time they played. One CB's opinion prior to that game is not fact. Of course Revis is going to say that when Stevie had more success against him than other players. Saying he got beaten by the best is the only way to save face.

Your opinion is not fact either. The fact you are harping on things Stevie did a couple seasons ago which he has stopped doing is just evidence you ***** just to *****.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 07:54 AM

Your opinion is not fact either. The fact you are harping on things Stevie did a couple seasons ago which he has stopped doing is just evidence you ***** just to *****.
Except that he didnt stop. He still took the delay of game penalty. He still had drops at bad times- they just weren't as high profile as the previous ones. And he still disappeared in certain games.

Those are the facts. There is video evidence to show that I'm not *****ing just to *****. But, if you can convince yourself that it's Op *****ing just to *****, then you don't have to face the reality that Stevie still does the same dumb **** he's always done.

justasportsfan

03-07-2013, 08:34 AM

Those are the facts. There is video evidence to show that I'm not *****ing just to *****. But, if you can convince yourself that it's Op *****ing just to *****, then you don't have to face the reality that Stevie still does the same dumb **** he's always done.when you take thread that is about Stevie doing a positive thing for the team and switch about his penalties which you've already beaten with a dead horse, you're *****ing just to *****.

Mahdi

03-07-2013, 09:03 AM

IlluminatusUIUC

03-07-2013, 09:13 AM

Except that he didnt stop. He still took the delay of game penalty. He still had drops at bad times- they just weren't as high profile as the previous ones. And he still disappeared in certain games.

Those are the facts. There is video evidence to show that I'm not *****ing just to *****. But, if you can convince yourself that it's Op *****ing just to *****, then you don't have to face the reality that Stevie still does the same dumb **** he's always done.

So post it.

You're talking about the delay of game penalty, I can only assume you are referring to this one from the Miami game?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201212230mia.htm
2nd and 8: Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzRy00.htm) pass incomplete short right intended for Steve Johnson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnSt00.htm). Penalty on Steve Johnson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnSt00.htm): Delay of Game, 5 yards

But keep looking at the next play:

3rd and 13: Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzRy00.htm) pass complete deep left to T.J. Graham (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrahT.00.htm) for 41 yards (tackle by Bryan McCann (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaBr01.htm))

Oh gee, so your complaint is that Johnson took a 5 yard penalty on 2nd down. In the 4th quarter of a game we were losing by 3 TDs. After being eliminated from playoff contention. It didn't cost us the game. It didn't even cost us possession. Indeed, that was the only TD drive in the game.

How is that anything but "*****ing just to *****"?

Mr. Miyagi

03-07-2013, 09:31 AM

SJ: "Buffalo is awesome, man! You can take as many stupid penalties as you want and drop as many game-winning TD's as you want, and no one cares because the rest of the team is so crappy that they still need you. Then, as soon as you do one good thing, everyone forgets about your 50 ****-ups and treats you like a hero. And everyone expects you to lose so there's no pressure! It's the best!"
That in-grown stick up your ass must be very uncomfortable. You should consider having it surgically removed.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 10:58 AM

That in-grown stick up your ass must be very uncomfortable. You should consider having it surgically removed.

No stick.

Just very bitter at the way this team is run.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 11:01 AM

So post it.

You're talking about the delay of game penalty, I can only assume you are referring to this one from the Miami game?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201212230mia.htm
2nd and 8: Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzRy00.htm) pass incomplete short right intended for Steve Johnson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnSt00.htm). Penalty on Steve Johnson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnSt00.htm): Delay of Game, 5 yards

But keep looking at the next play:

3rd and 13: Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FitzRy00.htm) pass complete deep left to T.J. Graham (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrahT.00.htm) for 41 yards (tackle by Bryan McCann (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCaBr01.htm))

Oh gee, so your complaint is that Johnson took a 5 yard penalty on 2nd down. In the 4th quarter of a game we were losing by 3 TDs. After being eliminated from playoff contention. It didn't cost us the game. It didn't even cost us possession. Indeed, that was the only TD drive in the game.

How is that anything but "*****ing just to *****"?
Um, really?

He took a dumb delay of game penalty because he couldn't control his emotions. Luckily for him, other players were able to make up for it on the next play. The results very easily could have been worse.

And, much to your dismay, it shows Stevie still has some maturity issues. You don't just get to write it off and pretend it didn't happen because some other players made up for it on the next play.

justasportsfan

03-07-2013, 11:22 AM

Um, really?

He took a dumb delay of game penalty because he couldn't control his emotions. Luckily for him, other players were able to make up for it on the next play. The results very easily could have been worse.

And, much to your dismay, it shows Stevie still has some maturity issues. You don't just get to write it off and pretend it didn't happen because some other players made up for it on the next play. he played through injury last season , had another 1,000 yard season and yet what sticks in your mind is that one penalty.

When you point out 1 penalty out of the positives he's done with a crappy cast, ,you're *****ing just to *****.

IlluminatusUIUC

03-07-2013, 11:32 AM

Um, really?

He took a dumb delay of game penalty because he couldn't control his emotions. Luckily for him, other players were able to make up for it on the next play. The results very easily could have been worse.

So now we are criticizing him for how bad it could have been? My word, we might have been forced to punt! And then lost by 3 touch downs instead of 2!

And, much to your dismay, it shows Stevie still has some maturity issues. You don't just get to write it off and pretend it didn't happen because some other players made up for it on the next play.

This is utterly comical. You are harping on a 5 yard penalty. A five. yard. penalty. If that's the best example you can come up with of Stevie's maturity issues in 2012, then it sure sounds like he's largely fixed those issues, hasn't it? I'm writing it off because it's insignificant.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 01:50 PM

1. 1 delay of game penalty for 5 yards --- wow --- don't even need to argue the insignificance

2. EVERY Wr has drops, all of them! And some of the best ones. So this is not an argument that is valid.

3. Stevie never disappeared from games, Fitz was routinely inaccurate and ineffective, how many balls did Fitz throw at Stevie's feet or over he his head, or to the other team? If Stevie had Brady or Ryan or Rodgers he would have 120 rec per season.

So now we are criticizing him for how bad it could have been? My word, we might have been forced to punt! And then lost by 3 touch downs instead of 2!

This is utterly comical. You are harping on a 5 yard penalty. A five. yard. penalty. If that's the best example you can come up with of Stevie's maturity issues in 2012, then it sure sounds like he's largely fixed those issues, hasn't it? I'm writing it off because it's insignificant.

It is absolutely inconceivable to me that any of you would defend a player for taking a stupid, emotional dead ball penalty. What good can come of it? What purpose does it serve?

The fact that you would defend something so careless just shows your bias. It's absurd to defend anything like this and it shows you have accepted mediocrity.

As far as other WR's having drops, well, that doesn't excuse Stevie's drops in any way shape or form. Once again, "he did it too!" is not a legitimate excuse outside of kindergarten.

As far as Stevie disappearing, he absolutely did. But hey, you like Stevie and not Fitz, and it can never be the fault of the guy you like, right? It's always the coach or the system or another player.... When did we stop holding guys accountable for their performance and start making excuses and defending dead ball penalties? It's ****ing ridiculous.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 01:53 PM

he played through injury last season , had another 1,000 yard season and yet what sticks in your mind is that one penalty.

When you point out 1 penalty out of the positives he's done with a crappy cast, ,you're *****ing just to *****.

Of course, the injury and crappy team excuses. It can never be Stevie's fault, right?

And what happened to standards? Can't we have a good WR who DOESN'T take stupid dead ball penalties?

Mahdi

03-07-2013, 02:07 PM

It is absolutely inconceivable to me that any of you would defend a player for taking a stupid, emotional dead ball penalty. What good can come of it? What purpose does it serve?

The fact that you would defend something so careless just shows your bias. It's absurd to defend anything like this and it shows you have accepted mediocrity.

As far as other WR's having drops, well, that doesn't excuse Stevie's drops in any way shape or form. Once again, "he did it too!" is not a legitimate excuse outside of kindergarten.

As far as Stevie disappearing, he absolutely did. But hey, you like Stevie and not Fitz, and it can never be the fault of the guy you like, right? It's always the coach or the system or another player.... When did we stop holding guys accountable for their performance and start making excuses and defending dead ball penalties? It's ****ing ridiculous.

Its inconceivable to me that you would take such a huge issue with an overly emotional moment a player had ONCE in a year that cost the team 5 yards. If that is your standard you would have half of the players in the league tossed out.

ONE PENALTY FOR 5 YARDS ALL YEAR!!!! Just think about that for one second... I can't believe we're even arguing about this.

He plays hurt ALL THE TIME, he has taken a home town discount to play here. He is actively recruiting guys to the team. He has been productive without a #2 WR and without a real QB.

So how about you find another player to pick on.

justasportsfan

03-07-2013, 02:16 PM

Of course, the injury and crappy team excuses. It can never be Stevie's fault, right?

And what happened to standards? Can't we have a good WR who DOESN'T take stupid dead ball penalties?

this is exactly what I mean. You're downplaying his playing with injury and revert back to the same old penalty. Finding things to ***** just to *****

IlluminatusUIUC

03-07-2013, 02:17 PM

It is absolutely inconceivable to me that any of you would defend a player for taking a stupid, emotional dead ball penalty. What good can come of it? What purpose does it serve?

The fact that you would defend something so careless just shows your bias. It's absurd to defend anything like this and it shows you have accepted mediocrity.

As far as other WR's having drops, well, that doesn't excuse Stevie's drops in any way shape or form. Once again, "he did it too!" is not a legitimate excuse outside of kindergarten.

As far as Stevie disappearing, he absolutely did. But hey, you like Stevie and not Fitz, and it can never be the fault of the guy you like, right? It's always the coach or the system or another player.... When did we stop holding guys accountable for their performance and start making excuses and defending dead ball penalties? It's ****ing ridiculous.

What kind of ridiculous standards do you hold people to? Jesus christ. Yeah he made a mistake, no one is claiming it's not a mistake, but you are running this guy through the ringer over a five yard dead ball penalty in the fourth quarter of a blowout loss in Game 15 of a lost season.

Get some perspective.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 02:33 PM

Its inconceivable to me that you would take such a huge issue with an overly emotional moment a player had ONCE in a year that cost the team 5 yards. If that is your standard you would have half of the players in the league tossed out.

ONE PENALTY FOR 5 YARDS ALL YEAR!!!! Just think about that for one second... I can't believe we're even arguing about this.

He plays hurt ALL THE TIME, he has taken a home town discount to play here. He is actively recruiting guys to the team. He has been productive without a #2 WR and without a real QB.

So how about you find another player to pick on.
Of course, the "hurt" excuse again. Never his fault, is it?

Think about this: if we gave every starter one dead ball penalty a year, that's 22. More than one a game.

That type of penalty is inexusable, period. Nothing else he does changes that.

And more importantly, in Stevie's particular case, it shows he hasn't gotten over the maturity issues he's had.

But no, lets just ignore that because its the almighty Stevie who can do no wrong. I have no idea why some of you think certain players that you like are above criticism.

It's insane that you would even think of defending a dead ball penalty. There is no excuse. Ever.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 02:35 PM

What kind of ridiculous standards do you hold people to? Jesus christ. Yeah he made a mistake, no one is claiming it's not a mistake, but you are running this guy through the ringer over a five yard dead ball penalty in the fourth quarter of a blowout loss in Game 15 of a lost season.

Get some perspective.
Once again, it's inexcusable regardless of the situation.

Once again, it's a continuation of problems that have plagued Stevie before.

I don't know why some of you have such low standards that you find this acceptable.

Mahdi

03-07-2013, 02:36 PM

Of course, the "hurt" excuse again. Never his fault, is it?

Think about this: if we gave every starter one dead ball penalty a year, that's 22. More than one a game.

That type of penalty is inexusable, period. Nothing else he does changes that.

And more importantly, in Stevie's particular case, it shows he hasn't gotten over the maturity issues he's had.

But no, lets just ignore that because its the almighty Stevie who can do no wrong. I have no idea why some of you think certain players that you like are above criticism.

It's insane that you would even think of defending a dead ball penalty. There is no excuse. Ever.

You've clearly never played sports at a high level or else you'd realize what your saying is false.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 02:38 PM

this is exactly what I mean. You're downplaying his playing with injury and revert back to the same old penalty. Finding things to ***** just to *****

Because playing with injury is just an excuse. His performance can't be his fault- it must be an injury or the rest of the team or the coach or anything other than Stevie himself.

And why can't he play with injury AND not take stupid penalties? Doing a good thing doesn't give him free license to do something dumb.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 02:41 PM

You've clearly never played sports at a high level or else you'd realize what your saying is false.

My experience has nothing to do with it.

DEAD BALL PENALTY. It wasn't like he was fighting for the ball or trying to make a block or trying for a tackle after a turnover. There was nothing going on and he couldn't control his emotions. It was selfish and immature.

And, for that matter, we should hold our highest paid WR to higher standards than high school players.

Mahdi

03-07-2013, 02:47 PM

My experience has nothing to do with it.

DEAD BALL PENALTY. It wasn't like he was fighting for the ball or trying to make a block or trying for a tackle after a turnover. There was nothing going on and he couldn't control his emotions. It was selfish and immature.

And, for that matter, we should hold our highest paid WR to higher standards than high school players.

It has everything to do with it.

Because if you have that experience you would know that playing sports at a high level comes with a lot of passion, energy, emotion and adrenaline. And sometimes you get heated and do something you wouldn't normally.

Every player has done it in every sport. Many of the players we hold to high standard in the NFL have taken similar penalties. Whether it was slamming a ball, shoving an opponent, mouthing off to a ref or taking off a helmet.

So AGAIN, one penalty for 5 yards is not even a secondary thought.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 02:52 PM

It shouldn't be a secondary thought. It should be a primary criticism.

There were 10 other Bills on the field at the same time and they all managed to keep their cool. Hell, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any other player penalized for kicking the ball after the play on the Bills or any if their opponents ALL YEAR.

The other players managed to keep their cool or at least express their emotions in a way that doesn't get a penalty. Stevie should be held to the same standard.

This whole thing is insane. Only a biased homer would defend or excuse such a stupid penalty.

IlluminatusUIUC

03-07-2013, 02:58 PM

Once again, it's inexcusable regardless of the situation.

Once again, it's a continuation of problems that have plagued Stevie before.

I don't know why some of you have such low standards that you find this acceptable.

Maybe because some of us recognize that Johnson is a human being, not FootballTron2000, and that occasionally he makes mistakes which you have to balance against his successes? And that a five yard penalty in a meaningless situation isn't a firing squad offense? To hear you talk, you think the guy plays wearing boxing gloves with a hangover.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 03:07 PM

Maybe because some of us recognize that Johnson is a human being, not FootballTron2000, and that occasionally he makes mistakes which you have to balance against his successes? And that a five yard penalty in a meaningless situation isn't a firing squad offense? To hear you talk, you think the guy plays wearing boxing gloves with a hangover.

Occasionally? Please. Far too often for a guy who is supposed to be an "elite" WR. One of the reasons why the Bills lose is because our supposed "stars" make too many dumb mistakes. Who cares what else he does? Doing good things doesn't get him off the hook for utter stupidity.

IlluminatusUIUC

03-07-2013, 03:26 PM

Occasionally? Please.

Yeah, occasionally. The best example you've been able to come up with this year is a 5 yard penalty after both the game and season were lost. You'd think if if were frequent as you claim you wouldn't have to go back to 2010 for examples.

Far too often for a guy who is supposed to be an "elite" WR.

So, in searching this thread, the only other poster besides you to use the word elite was JASF, when he specifically said he was not elite. So yeah.

One of the reasons why the Bills lose is because our supposed "stars" make too many dumb mistakes. Who cares what else he does? Doing good things doesn't get him off the hook for utter stupidity.

The bigger reason we lose is because most of our players don't actually make that many good plays either. I'd happily keep a Stevie Johnson that loses his cool once a season to get rid of Fitz throwing 3rd down passes into the bleachers.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 04:43 PM

Yeah, occasionally. The best example you've been able to come up with this year is a 5 yard penalty after both the game and season were lost. You'd think if if were frequent as you claim you wouldn't have to go back to 2010 for examples.

So, in searching this thread, the only other poster besides you to use the word elite was JASF, when he specifically said he was not elite. So yeah.

The bigger reason we lose is because most of our players don't actually make that many good plays either. I'd happily keep a Stevie Johnson that loses his cool once a season to get rid of Fitz throwing 3rd down passes into the bleachers.
2010? The guy cost us 3 games in 2010 and 2011 alone (the two big drops and the penalty/benching against NE), then he had the drops and games where he just disappeared in 2012.

And this isn't about other players. What other players don't do is not a legitimate excuse for Stevie. Such a childish mentality: "well he did it too!"

You are kidding yourself if you expect Stevie to only blow it once a season, but, let's say he does only lose his cool and take a dead ball penalty once a season. Why is that acceptable on ANY level? How many penalties like that did Spiller take?

Your mentality is "I'm willing to accept the penalties because of the production."

My mentality is "it's ridiculous that we have to put up with stupidity to get production."

So tired of Buffalo fans accepting mediocrity and defending bull**** from players they like. Yeah, Stevie's not the biggest problem on the team, but relying on guys like Stevie as the "stars" is a far bigger problem than you realize. The team can't be loaded with stars, so the guys who are stars and get paid like it can't be pulling this nonsense.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 04:47 PM

And before you say it: yes, I know other players could have stepped up and done more to win those 3 games. They were team losses. But the way it happened, Stevie was in a position to make the winning plays and failed. He has to do better if the team is going to win. True stars make those plays.

IlluminatusUIUC

03-07-2013, 06:16 PM

2010? The guy cost us 3 games in 2010 and 2011 alone (the two big drops and the penalty/benching against NE), then he had the drops and games where he just disappeared in 2012.

Like I said, you have to go back to 2010 for examples. He's largely cleared his game up and taken one bad penalty which was utterly meaningless to our record and its SAME OLD STEVIE. FWIW, you said you had video evidence of these drops and such from 2012, so I would still like to see that.

And this isn't about other players. What other players don't do is not a legitimate excuse for Stevie. Such a childish mentality: "well he did it too!"

The point is that other human beings, being human beings, make mistakes. Brandon Marshall has a lot of drops and a lot of off-field issues. He's also a first team All-Pro. Its ridiculous that Bears fans have to deal with 10 drops and Marshall going 2 for 24 against Green Bay!

You are kidding yourself if you expect Stevie to only blow it once a season, but, let's say he does only lose his cool and take a dead ball penalty once a season. Why is that acceptable on ANY level? How many penalties like that did Spiller take?

You're obsessed with what's "acceptable." I certainly don't applaud Johnson's disastrous 5 yard penalty, but I'm not losing my mind over it either.

So tired of Buffalo fans accepting mediocrity and defending bull**** from players they like. Yeah, Stevie's not the biggest problem on the team, but relying on guys like Stevie as the "stars" is a far bigger problem than you realize. The team can't be loaded with stars, so the guys who are stars and get paid like it can't be pulling this nonsense.

Well I'm tired of Buffalo fans running talented players out of town over the stupidest crap and then complaining when our talent blossoms elsewhere. Is it acceptable that Lynch was a dumbass? No, but I sure wish we had his 2700 yards and 25 TDs over the last two years.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 10:34 PM

If we had kept Lynch we likely wouldn't have been able to keep Spiller. I hated the way that situation was handled because I think he should have been traded sooner, but we do have two good RB's so losing Lynch is a bad example.

The problem isn't fans running players out of town. The problem is the FO fails to replace them with anyone equal or better. We basically HAD to sign Stevie as our #1 because we had no other options due to Nix's incompetence. He's the guy we could get. He's not the right guy for the job. He's proven that he can't be counted on when the game is on the line and you never know when he's going to do something stupid. That's a high price to pay for his production, and there are many equal or better players throughout the league who don't come with that kind of baggage. Our FO is just too dumb to get them.

Rest assured, Stevie will do something stupid this year that will hurt the team, and I'll bump this thread when he does.

But, I'm sure you'll have all kinds of excuses about how it wasn't really that bad or it was really someone else's fault or its ok because Brandon Marshall did something worse.

OpIv37

03-07-2013, 10:52 PM

Oh and if players are human and make human mistakes, please tell me why none of the other 52 players on the Bills or the 53 players on the other 13 teams we played this year made that mistake in 16 games.

It's not a common mistake. It's a dumb mistake by a player who doesn't have his head in the game. And it follows Stevie's MO that dates back to 2010.

And now is the part where you say "it's not that big of a problem if you have to go all the way back to 2010 to find examples." But name one other player on the Bills who has hurt the Bills with those kinds of stupid penalties in that span. Hell, most of the guys who have been on the team since 2010 don't have one stupid dead ball penalty or late mistake that cost the team a close game, let alone the collection that Stevie has.

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 06:41 AM

Because playing with injury is just an excuse. Sheez. Sorry. My bad. Didn't know you had sources too. Your sources tell you that Fred JAckson wasn't really injured either? It's just an excuse? :rolleyes:

His performance can't be his fault- it must be an injury or the rest of the team or the coach or anything other than Stevie himself. And why can't he play with injury AND not take stupid penalties? Doing a good thing doesn't give him free license to do something dumb.
what is it about our saying he's not elite and that we acknowledged his dumb penalty by calling it DUMB that we haven't held him accountable?

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 06:46 AM

this is what OP is doing in this thread.

Stevie is trying to recruit players
OPi: But he had a dumb 5 yard penalty

Stevie plays through injuries
OPi: But he had a dumb 5 yard penalty

SJ had another 1,000 yard season
OPi: But he had a dumb 5 yard penalty

Stevie Blocks for his team mates
OPi: But he had a dumb 5 yard penalty

Stevie didn't give up on a Fitz INT
OPi: But he had a dumb 5 yard penalty

Stevie is not elite and had a 5 yard dumb penalty
You're not holding him accountable for his 5 yard penalty.

Using that 5 yard penalty just to *****!

better days

03-08-2013, 06:51 AM

YardRat

03-08-2013, 06:51 AM

Stevie does eventually need to step up and make some plays that would elevate him to 'difference-maker' status, I don't think anybody can disagree with that point.

To be fair and honest, though, Op, we all know that even if he did your MO would be to put forth the 'Big deal, it doesn't make up for all of the other mistakes he's made in the past' and then when he has a game with a drop or stupid penalty pull out the 'See? I told you so...' card and start all over again.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 07:54 AM

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 07:55 AM

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 08:01 AM

You accuse me of not reading what you wrote regarding Stevie not being elite, but you are ignoring all the other things Stevie did and are ignoring the fact that it's part of a larger trend with him.

What trend are you talking about? he had ONE dumb penalty last year compared to 2 years ago.

You have no right to talk about ignoring things. I posted several positives from last year and you only have 1 penalty on your side.

*****ing just to *****.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 08:09 AM

What trend are you talking about? he had ONE dumb penalty last year compared to 2 years ago.

You have no right to talk about ignoring things. I posted several positives from last year and you only have 1 penalty on your side.

*****ing just to *****.

Wrong.

I'm saying we should be able to get the positives without the negatives. No player is perfect, but star players come through when they have the opportunity to win the game, and the majority of players in the NFL- stars or not- don't seem to have a problem avoiding dead ball penalties like delay of games and celebration. Yeah, maybe he only has 3 in the last 3 seasons, but that's 3 more than the overwhelming majority of players on our team.

Think of where we would be if we gave every starter a pass on 3 dead ball penalties every two years. It comes down to two a game. And if we excuse them from Stevie, we have to excuse them from everyone else too.

That's why it's unacceptable.

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 08:12 AM

Wrong.

I'm saying we should be able to get the positives without the negatives. No player is perfect, but star players come through when they have the opportunity to win the game, and the majority of players in the NFL- stars or not- don't seem to have a problem avoiding dead ball penalties like delay of games and celebration. Yeah, maybe he only has 3 in the last 3 seasons, but that's 3 more than the overwhelming majority of players on our team.

Think of where we would be if we gave every starter a pass on 3 dead ball penalties every two years. It comes down to two a game. And if we excuse them from Stevie, we have to excuse them from everyone else too.

That's why it's unacceptable. out of all the postives from last season , you're still *****ing about 1 negative.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 08:15 AM

out of all the postives from last season , you're still *****ing about 1 negative.

Yup. Part of a larger trend and more proof that Stevie is inconsistent and unreliable.

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 08:19 AM

Yup. you just admitted you're *****ing just to ***** over 1 penalty
Part of a larger trend and more proof that Stevie is inconsistent and unreliable.

again, his penalty went down to 1, 5 yard penalty. So the trend is?

YardRat

03-08-2013, 08:19 AM

You can't base an argument on your guess on how I would react to a hypothetical situation that never actually occurred.

It isn't hypothetical, and it's based on historical precedence. Just look for any 'Ralph's cheap' or 'Vanek sucks' threads, for just a couple of examples.

better days

03-08-2013, 08:20 AM

Yup. Part of a larger trend and more proof that Stevie is inconsistent and unreliable.

There is one like you on every board of every team Op. I'm sure there is someone on a Ravens board complaining about some stupid thing.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 08:27 AM

There is one like you on every board of every team Op. I'm sure there is someone on a Ravens board complaining about some stupid thing.

Lmao. And there are dozens like you on every board: defending the players on the team that you like despite their stupid mistakes and despite the horrible results. I don't know why you can't see it, but one of the problems with this team is that they rely on guys like Stevie to be stars when they clearly are not.

Like I said, Stevie will hurt the team this year and I'll bump the thread when he does.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 08:31 AM

It isn't hypothetical, and it's based on historical precedence. Just look for any 'Ralph's cheap' or 'Vanek sucks' threads, for just a couple of examples.

Ralph is cheap. Signing Mario doesn't get him off the hook for all the guys he's let walk or didnt get in FA or how he's consistently gone cheap on coaches.

And saying Vanek sucks was probably an emotional reaction to one of his all too frequent bad games, but Vanek has a similar problem as Stevie. He'll get production but he'll go cold for long stretches. And he makes big mistakes too often. Just look at the comedy of errors he had in the Carolina game.

Teams whose "star players" pull this nonsense don't win. It's that simple.

better days

03-08-2013, 08:39 AM

Lmao. And there are dozens like you on every board: defending the players on the team that you like despite their stupid mistakes and despite the horrible results. I don't know why you can't see it, but one of the problems with this team is that they rely on guys like Stevie to be stars when they clearly are not.

Like I said, Stevie will hurt the team this year and I'll bump the thread when he does.

Well, why not bump the thread when Stevie helps the Bills win a game?

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 08:43 AM

Lmao. despite their stupid mistakes
don't exaggerate. you have only pulled out ONE mistake from last year .

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 08:43 AM

Well, why not bump the thread when Stevie helps the Bills win a game?

Because my point isn't that star players help teams win games. My point is the supposed "star" players can't shoot their team in the foot if the team is going to win, and Stevie does it far too often.

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 08:47 AM

Ralph is cheap. Signing Mario doesn't get him off the hook for all the guys he's let walk or didnt get in FA or how he's consistently gone cheap on coaches.

Again, he signed Bledsoe, Milloy, Spikes etc. to huge contracts. Then he signed Dockery and co. to huge contracts. Argue that.

As far as GW and Mularkey, that was Donahoes call because he wanted power after he lost to Cowher in a power struggle in Pitts .

Ralph wanted Sherman who was a big named coach back then but Marv wanted Jauron.

Shanahan wanted nothing to do with buffalo and both Cowher and Gruden weren't ready to come when buffalo were interested in them.

Argue that.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 08:56 AM

don't exaggerate. you have only pulled out ONE mistake from last year .

Not true. I also pointed out the drops and the games where he doesn't show up. But you apologists promptly blamed that on injuries and Fitz because it can never be Stevie's fault.

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 08:59 AM

Not true. I also pointed out the drops and the games where he doesn't show up. But you apologists promptly blamed that on injuries and Fitz because it can never be Stevie's fault.

he's not even on the list of most drops amongst receivers in the league.

Show me where I used the injuries as an excuse for his drops.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 09:01 AM

Again, he signed Bledsoe, Milloy, Spikes etc. to huge contracts. Then he signed Dockery and co. to huge contracts. Argue that.

As far as GW and Mularkey, that was Donahoes call because he wanted power after he lost to Cowher in a power struggle in Pitts .

Ralph wanted Sherman who was a big named coach back then but Marv wanted Jauron.

Shanahan wanted nothing to do with buffalo and both Cowher and Gruden weren't ready to come when buffalo were interested in them.

Argue that.

Bledsoe, Milloy, Spikes, 5 years of nothing until Dockery.

Dockery, then 5 years of nothing until Mario.

Meanwhile, P Williams, Clements, Jennings, Winfield, Fletcher and others all walk.

Cheap.

Ok fine- Donahoe picked Mularkey. But it's Ralph's money and he could have overrode the decision if he wanted. And even if I give you Mularkey, explain G Williams, Jauron, Gailey and Marrone. And explain all the coordinators who had never been coordinators before.

Cheap.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 09:03 AM

he's not even on the list of most drops amongst receivers in the league.

Show me where I used the injuries as an excuse for his drops.
The fact that other receivers drop balls doesn't give Stevie an excuse to do it too.

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 09:27 AM

Bledsoe, Milloy, Spikes, 5 years of nothing until Dockery.

Dockery, then 5 years of nothing until Mario.

Meanwhile, P Williams, Clements, Jennings, Winfield, Fletcher and others all walk. .

You can't sign everyone but I've shown you that he's been willing to spend when asked by his GM's. Ralphs mistakes were picking the wrong GM's.

Holy crap, you're using Clements who was paid highest in league history? Really? The 49'ers were dumb for doing so and let him go. Desperate use of example.

5 years? You missed the part where they resigned Lee Evans to a huge contract. They also signed TO.

Are you missing Kyle, FJ, and even though it didn't pan out, he spent on Kelsay.

Aside form Mario he also spent money on Anderson.

You've already decided he's cheap that you're having selective memory

Cheap.

Ok fine- Donahoe picked Mularkey. But it's Ralph's money and he could have overrode the decision if he wanted. And even if I give you Mularkey, explain G Williams, Jauron, Gailey and Marrone. And explain all the coordinators who had never been coordinators before.

Cheap. wait wait. You keep blasting him for making decisions and then he listens to his GM and it's a problem again? Make up your mind! Greg Williams was Donahoe's first hire , whats there to explain?

I've already explained the Gailey hire. The bills were interested in Shanahan, Cowher and Gruden but none of them were interested.

What about Marrone? He's a Russ/Nix hire. Are you already judging that hire and putting it on Ralphs head.

You have nothing. I've proven he's willing to spend.

Are you seriously blaming Ralph for the assistants when that the head coaches decisions? You can't be that stupid.

justasportsfan

03-08-2013, 09:29 AM

The fact that other receivers drop balls doesn't give Stevie an excuse to do it too.

the elite receivers drop balls all the time so wI'm not surprised a non-elite wr drops balls.

So you have nothing where I used injuries as an excuse to drop balls. Thought so!

better days

03-08-2013, 12:31 PM

The fact that other receivers drop balls doesn't give Stevie an excuse to do it too.

The fact other receivers drop balls is not an excuse for Stevie to drop balls. It is just a fact of life ALL receivers drop balls, even HOF receivers dropped balls. So to say Stevie should NEVER drop a ball is ridiculous.

OpIv37

03-08-2013, 12:37 PM

The fact other receivers drop balls is not an excuse for Stevie to drop balls. It is just a fact of life ALL receivers drop balls, even HOF receivers dropped balls. So to say Stevie should NEVER drop a ball is ridiculous.
Yeah well he shouldn't drop two that were most likely game winners. And as far as 2012, we have an inaccurate QB. When he finally hits Stevie in the hands in stride for one of the few times all season, Stevie drops it. I wish I could remember which game it was, but it was the best ball thrown to him all year and he botched it. We know Fitz is gonna miss passes. That's why the "stars" like Stevie need to step up and make the most of those opportunities.

Yeah, I know: "But you just said Fitz is a bad QB and Stevie put up numbers anyway!"

Still not an excuse for dropping golden opportunities.

better days

03-08-2013, 12:52 PM

When he finally hits Stevie in the hands in stride for one of the few times all season, Stevie drops it. I wish I could remember which game it was, but it was the best ball thrown to him all year and he botched it. We know Fitz is gonna miss passes. That's why the "stars" like Stevie need to step up and make the most of those opportunities.

Still not an excuse for dropping golden opportunities.

Well, maybe Stevie dropped it because he was so shocked to see a ball in reach while in stride. People do not act normally when in shock.